[Dan Herrmann]

I was watching a TV show last night on golf in the Muskoka region of Ontario, Canada.  Several of McBroom's courses were featured.  Thomas was also interviewed for the show and explained how he was able to incorporate/overcome (based on your POV) the Canadian Sheld that's prevelant in the area.

What do you know about McBroom and the Muskoka region?

I was pretty impressed by what I saw, and I'm thinking about making a trip up there next year.

[Matthew MacKay]

The Muskokas is a beautiful area that has traditionally been a playground for the rich and famous of Toronto.  Sort of our version of the Hamptons.  Indeed, high end courses have sprouted like weeds over the last 10 years with McBroom and Carrick being the main benefactors of the golf boom.  All of the courses up north are very pretty and have a nice sense of genus loci, as per the rock outcroppings which are the calling card of the Canadian Shield.
Of those I've played, Taboo and Deerhurst are both pretty decent tracks.  Everyone raves about McBrooms Rocky Crest; I just don't see it that way.  By and large, I'm not sure the land up there is particularly conducive to good golf.  It's very hilly and rocky which presents routing issues.  A good example of this is the new "Nick Faldo" course appropriately named The Rock.  Holy moly, even Nick himself couldn't navigate his ball around that place.  He forgot to put landing areas on a few holes.
I'm heading up to play the "O'Meara' course at Grandview and the much lauded Bigwin Island (#6 in Score Magazine's Top 100 in Canada!?!) this weekend, I'll try to give a report when I get back.

[Robert Thompson]

Tom's work is getting better all the time -- his recently opened Glencairn, an homage to Muirfield, is really strong.
That said, most people are big fans of his work in Muskoka and really tend to like Rocky Crest, contrary to Matt's take. That said, I wonder if some of the enthusiasm for the course comes from people who haven't seen rock used in a golf course. The outcroppings in Muskoka can be very dramatic.
Lake Joseph, another McBroom course, is often regarded as Rocky Crest's ugly sister, given its blind shots. I found the greens pretty extreme in places, but I actually think some of the course is very good.
The latest fad in Muskoka is Taboo, a Ron Garl course that many think is Garl's best work. Quite strong in places.
My fav is Bigwin Island, Doug Carrick's course that is actually on an island -- you take a boat to get to it.

Robert

[Dan Herrmann]

The region looked like a great relaxing alternative to the Myrtle Beach craziness.  The type of place you could proudly take your family to.  I loved the 'Adirondack' type building architecture that I saw.

And the golf looked awfully good too!

[John Foley]

The region appears to be stocked w/ great golf. The exposed rock looks somewhat tough play.

I bet September, before the snow flies and the cottagers head home is a great time to be there. I think Ian/Dog Carrick have a new one in the area. I think it's mentioned on the other lthreads.

[Matthew MacKay]

You're right Dan.  It would be worth the visit without even bringing the clubs.  I would also encourage to get off the beaten path a bit (Muskoka, Joseph, and Rosseau are the "big 3" lakes up there) and explore a cheaper and more peaceful spot such as the Haliburton area, still only a short drive from good golf and just as pretty.  If you want jet skis, celebrities, and fine dining then head to Muskoka.  Back patio BBQ's watching the kids swim, try somewhere nearby but not right in the heart of Muskoka.  You should investigate renting a cottage for a week to get the true feel of what is a deeply ingrained aspect of Canadiana.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Muskoka is a beautiful area. But, like the Hamptons, it's getting to be really crowded throughout the summer. It's still very nice though. Definitely worth a visit.

I've seen most of the "big name" courses up there. They're all pretty typical new courses that charge more than $100 per round. Which makes me think, Torontonians have been "summering" in Muskoka for a long time. Where's the old, "left over" club from an earlier era? Like a "Maidstone of Muskoka". Is it George Cumming's Windermere House? I haven't been there yet.

If one doesn't exist, that's Muskoka's shortcoming these days, in my opinion.  

[henrye]

Sorry I missed seeing this post when it went up.  I was looking for suggestions on Cabo and found this one on Muskoka.

Dan.  I think you would enjoy visiting the area for golf, as the rock, which others have referenced, is unique to North American golf.  The area is located just inside the Canadian Shield, which is an enormous region covering most of Canada where the glaciers literally scraped everything living off the surface of the earth right down to the bare rock.  Exposed rock in the area dates back some 4 billion years and is coloured and patterned by lava which cooled as the earth cooled.  The area is made up of thousands of small and large lakes connected by rivers and streams which historically where used as transportation routes by native Indians and fur traders.  Over the last 120 years, these lakes and rivers have formed a haven for vacationing cottagers from Toronto, upstate New York and even Pennsylvania.  Golf has always been a part of the area - very crude early courses - but has recently experienced a bit of a development boom.

The courses are good and challenging and visually stunning when compared to courses in the rest of Ontario.  I'm a member at McBroom's Lake Joseph club and naturally am biased toward it.  From someone who plays the course often, it is always a challenge and I enjoy the "quirks" of blind shots, valley carries, and some narrow landing areas.  Deer and fox are common - I see at least one on every third visit.

The Rocky Crest course is visually more scenic, but some of the holes appear repetitive, and play that way as well.  The Mark Omera course is very unusual.  There are a number of blind uphill (steep hills) shots.  I'm not a fan.  Faldo's course is another visual beauty, but it is very tough  - some blind shots, tight fairways, and doglegs.

One of my favourite courses is Stanley Thompson's Muskoka Lakes on Lake Rosseau - wide open fairways with a few very nasty greens (cottage golf at its best!)

[Jeff_Mingay]

Henry,

Thanks for the "heads up"... I'll make a point to visit Muskoka Lakes next time I'm up there.

Any thoughts on Windermere House? Just curious,

[henrye]

Jeff.  Let me know when you want to play Muskoka Lakes.  It's private and you will need a member host.

I have not played Windermere, but know others who are members there.  I understand it is reasonably priced, has been recently renovated, but is a cottage track at best.  The old Windermere Hotel/Resort was a Lake Rosseau landmark for years, but it burned to the ground a few years ago.  It has since been rebuilt to replicate what was there previously.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Thanks Henry... send me an email when you get a chance at jemingay@sympatico.ca.

I've always been fascinated with Windermere House, anxious to visit. I'm less excited now though, with news the golf course has been renovated and the original resort building burned down.

Oh well.

[Robert Thompson]

Interesting about Muskoka Lakes -- I didn't know it was a Thompson and haven't heard much about it.
As for McBroom, I had the opportunity to play Ovinbyrd, his most recent course in Muskoka. It is very private and has yet to officially open, but I'm friends with one of the individuals involved in the project.
Anyway, it was exceptional -- probably the best thing I've seen out of Tom yet. His work at Wildfire in Peterborough and Glencairn was both better than his previous courses, in my estimation.
He's working on a course in Celebration, FLA. Of course that's the home of the flat as a pancake golf course, so it'll be interesting to see what he can do.

Robert

[henrye]

Robert, I'm not surprised you enjoyed Oviinbyrd.  I have heard good things about it.  My son and I visited the site in early August and while it appeared very scenic, it still looked a long way off to completion.  Looking forward to getting out there next summer.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Tom McBroom is a busy guy. The correct spelling is Oviinbyrd.

From www.scoregolf.com :

Six pack of new courses for Canadian McBroom

Rick Young



 
One of Canada’s preeminent golf course architects, Thomas McBroom is slated to unveil six new courses in 2004 while design and construction continues on several different fronts both at home and abroad.
McBroom’s eighth design for ClubLink Corp., Glencairn Golf Club near Milton, Ont., is slated for a highly anticipated opening in early June. Inspired by the traditions and natural beauty of Scotland’s great Heathland courses, the course features 240 sod-walled bunkers and a real ‘Old World’ feeling according to McBroom.

“I think the concept for Glencairn is extremely well conceived right down to the last detail,” McBroom says. “From the moment you turn in the driveway you enter a world like no other in Canada.”

In late June or early July FireRock Golf Club will open its gates on the outskirts of London, Ont.

An environmental rehabilitation and reclamation project, FireRock was an exhausted gravel pit which McBroom has transformed into a premier public facility with one extremely welcomed innovation: the course will open with a modest introductory green fee of just $75 throughout the season.

Already a strong presence in the Muskoka, Ont., region McBroom will have two more courses joining the likes of Rocky Crest GC, Lake Joseph GC and Port Carling.

Private facilities Oviinbyrd GC on Lake Joseph and The Ridge at Manitou 20 minutes northeast of Parry Sound will showcase McBroom’s work on two spectacular land parcels in an area of Canada he has left a considerable imprint.

Later this fall McBroom will unveil White Water GC in Thunder Bay, Ont., and continue work on two projects which remain under construction, the Raven at Lora Bay, an exciting co-design with former British Open Champion, Tom Lehman and the Ambassador Golf Club situated near the Canada/U.S. border crossing.

“Watching the evolution of six courses under construction in 2003 was extremely stimulating,” says McBroom. “I have never had to juggle this many projects at one time. Usually, we have three or four on the go, but not six. Looking back, it was exhausting and exhilarating at the same time.”

[Jeff_Mingay]

"Inspired by the traditions and natural beauty of Scotland's great Heathlands courses..."

Scotland's heathlands courses?! I think someone has their wires crossed. Moreover, which of the great heathlands courses (in England, by the way) feature over 200 sod wall bunkers?!

Tom McBroom is cut from the RTJ mold. He's his own biggest fan, as indicated by quotes like: "I think the concept for Glencairn is extremely well conceived right down to the last detail". He was also the only architect in Paul Daley's book, Favourite Holes..., to choose 17 holes designed by himself as his favourites throughout the world (his 18th was the 2nd at St. George's).

This is all fine though. Like RTJ before him, Tom's done a fantastic job building his business. I know how difficult that is to do, and I give him all the credit in the world.

Although, I do wish there was a bit more variety in Muskoka. There's been a lot of golf course development up there over the past decade, and it seems like McBroom has designed at least every other layout.

[Robert Thompson]

Oviinbyrd (my bad -- I even have a windshirt with the club's name on it) is pretty cool and the grow in was pretty amazing. It is similar in style to Bigwin Island, which until this course, was probably the best in Muskoka.
There is a lot of strategy in the course even with the wide fairways -- and even a blind shot or two, which keeps things interesting. The finishing kick is nice and the entire project has had a lot of attention to detail. It is a fun course and a great fun to play.
Jeff is right that Tom has been a great self-promoter.However, I think he's getting a lot better as an architect in his last few designs.

Robert

[Matthew MacKay]

     If I may wade in again, I think the fact that McBroom has been so prolific in Ontario leads many to assume that he does great work.  Same statement could apply to Carrick, although Carrick seems to rely more on his record than self-promotion to get jobs.  That being said, almost all of McBrooms courses in Ontario are enjoyable to play and certainly never overly offensive even to the most discerning eye.  I agree, Robert, that he seems to be getting better as the years pass by and I too feel that Wildfire is one of McBroom's better efforts.  It's a nice mix of the 'hard-edge ruggedness' of Muskoka and the soft rolling farmland of fertile southern Ontario.  In fact, the course is virtually divided by the southern edge of the Canadian Shield.
     HenryE, Lake Joseph is a fun course to play and does have a distinct look when compared to the newer courses in Muskoka.  Many greens are not bunkered but most of these greensights are naturally very challenging (2,10).  Loved the rolly polly 3rd hole, 11 is a strong hole asking you to work the ball both ways and 16,17,18 is a good finish.  I do, however, have to take exception to your statement that Muskoka courses are visually stunning compared to other courses in Ontario.  Yes, it is a unique and beautiful area but I think one can be just as awestruck by the expanse of rural southwestern Ontario or the feeling of being in the middle of Toronto tucked away in one of the many courses located in the rivines that so define the city.  
     As for the O' Meara course (Brit Stenson) at Grandview, it has two uphill blind shots (which I find a great challenge), both of which are the beginning of two good golf holes.  The second shot at #3 is a good risk/reward traversing the valley and the second shot at #9 requires a bump and run to a green that falls away.  The course has two very good long par 4's (6 and 14), two very good medium length par 4's (4 and 13) and a fantastic short par 4 at #8.  Par 3's are a weakness, although #15 is a very good short hole.  The 18th is less than ideal with the green fronting bunker taking away any option to hit the green in two, but overall I think Grandview is the best and most varied test of golf in Muskoka.

[ian]

Jeff,

Regarding Windermere. 9 holes of Cumming and 9 holes added on later. Origional 9 are very good, quite short, but really rippled in places. New nine is fine, longer but less interesting.
Worth playing. There has been recent work up there but it was limited, it's done in house for budget reasons.


I will not comment on Tom's courses for the obvious reasons, but the Trent Jones comparison is excellent.


The course John refered to was Muskoka Bay Club, and I will post stuff on that next year.


A sleeper in the area is the old Thompson designed Muskoka Sands, 9 of the quirkiest fun holes you have ever seen.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Matt,

I happen to agree with you re: Grandview. I'll admit, I visited the course not expecting much and was pleasantly surprised. I, too, think it's the best course there, in the Muskoka area. Much better than the highly touted Cupp/McBroom effort at Deerhurst Highlands, across the road.

Let's hope our friend, Ian Andrew, tops Grandview at the Muskoka Bay C.  



 

 

[Robert Thompson]

Jeff: I will put a strong wager up that Ian's work at Muskoka Bay will have the best ponds of any course in the area. He's Canada's foremost pond expert.
Inside jokes aside, the photos of Muskoka Bay look pretty amazing and it look like it could set the standard.
To date though, I think Oviinbyrd is the best I've played, though I haven't played Grandview since its media opening. I quite like bits of Rocky Crest.

Robert

[Jeff_Mingay]

Rob,

I told Ian, the photos of the Muskoka Bay site he sent remind me of the property Mike DeVries had to work with at Marquette Golf Club. I think there are some grow-in photos of Mike's Greywalls course at Marquette GC's wesbite (sorry don't have the address handy).

[ian]

"Let's hope our friend, Ian Andrew, tops Grandview at the Muskoka Bay C."

That should be Doug Carrick and Ian.

back to Tom...

I enjoyed Wildfire, out near Peterborough. I've noticed Tom has begun to embrace some more chipping areas and is using slopes to deflect or direct the ball more. I do think his work continues to improve with each project.

Also the holes on the clubhouse side of the railroad tracks at Glencairn are very interesting, and this course might represent a departure on style for Tom. It will be intresting to see if that is true.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Apologies to Doug, Ian. I didn't purposely leave his name out, thinking most people in this DG are aware you work with him.

Or is it "for" him?!

[ian]

Jeff,

No apologies needed or wanted. I just perfer to keep things straight. I work "for" him.

Even after 15 years, there is no possibility of ever being a partner, which is common in many firms. The Clash described the only future decision I will face.

(I'm waiting for your list my friend)

Ian

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