O/T: Sahalee CC gets 2010 U.S. Sr. Open

[Sean Leary]

Steve,

I agree with your post completely. In terms of 6, I think it would almost certainly be a long iron layup, or maybe three wood off the tee, unless it was playing strongly downwind and someone could carry the rock on the fly.  Otherwise, a straight drive bounces into the trouble.

[Steve_Lovett]

Sean,

Re: #6 at Desert Canyon.  As far as those guys hit it I wouldn't be surprised if some of them could fly it and land it over the hill in calm weather - possibly leaving them with a shot at the green in two.  In most cases I'd bet pro's would play iron, iron, wedge (at least in calm days - all bets are off when the wind blows.  In fact, in heavy winds that hole can be darned near unplayable).  

[Jordan Wall]

IMO Gold Mountain would be better suited to hold a major over Desert Canyon AND Sahalee.

It offers space for spectators, has great greens.  The architecture is actually quite good, and the course is long enough where new tees would not have to be added.  If it can hold the PubLinx, why can it not hold a major??  The rough can get deep and the finish is awesome whether you start on #10 or #1.  

btw, light years better then Desert Canyon IMHO

[Steve_Lovett]

Jordan,

I would be careful in using the "they can get the rough deep" argument in support of Gold Mountain.  The rough can get deep anywhere they don't mow it for awhile - it is immaterial to Gold Canyon's architectural merit.

Gold Canyon will probably show well in the Publinx this year.  It is a terrific golf course, and I believe it will prove to be an ideal venue for that event.  Because it is a good host for the Publinx does not necessarily qualify it as a good host for the U.S. Senior Open.  And, it isn't likely to weigh in politically as compared with a Sahalee to host such an event.

Desert Canyon is an entertaining course in a very remote Central Washington location.  Like many of Jack Frei's courses (Bear Creek, Echo Falls) there are some fantastic and imaginative holes mixed in with some which leave you saying "what was that all about"?

[Sean Leary]

Steve,

Is there a fantastic hole at Echo Falls?  

I like DC much better than BC or EF, both of which are pretty bad, IMO...

The pros would absolutely light up Gold Mtn. Regardless of that Sahalee is the only course that ahs the room and infrustructure to hold a major event in the Seattle area.  The one thing that Sahalee does do is it doesn't allow the big hitters to just flog it as far as they can.  Being very wild is a killer at Sahalee, no matter what the rough is like....

[Matt_Ward]

Steve L, gents, et al:

The issue on this thread was the architectural heft (truly the lack thereof) of Sahalee. I mean, quite frankly, are there any top shelf designs by Ted Robinson that merit such lofty events.

I salute the club membership for the diligent lobbying to get the event.

My point still stands -- Sahalee is frankly one dimensional golf -- those who are advocates of classic width -- the ascension of the ground game and putting surfaces that are unique in so many ways -- will not find Sahalee in that elite grouping.

I mentioned Desert Canyon because I have played the course in far different conditions on the three (3) separate visits I have made to Orondo. I would not be surprised if I have played the course more times than some of those who have posted on this thread who actually live in the state.

Desert Canyon is far from a pushover -- simply check out the CR and slope ratings. The remoteness and walking challenges are clear impediments to the hosting of the events. I'd be more than happy to spell out the details of the entire 18 there.

One further comments -- I salute Jack Frei for a wonderful effort. Steve -- your last comment about what golfers may find when playing there is quite apt. Boring is not part of the Frei design vocabulary.

One additional thing -- yes -- the big boys can hit it but anyone thinking that reaching the 6th is chump change is barking up the wrong tree in a big time way.

[Steve_Lovett]

Matt,

I think most majors are set up in a one-dimentional approach.  As such, I think Sahalee (with all it's tree lined limitations) will be a terrific test for the Sr. Open.  Perhaps I like the course a bit more than you do, but no matter - we agree it isn't among the country's super-elite, and that there is nothing particularly special about the greens.

What surprised me is your mention of Desert Canyon as part of the discussion.  I've probably played DC a few more times than you have, and in wildly varied conditions.  It is not an easy course, I agree - but it's not a championship course either.  It is equal parts entertaining and strange - and when I play there I feel that the site could've yielded a much better golf course.  Maybe what doesn't feel right is that DC seems a bit too contrived and awkward for such a naturally rugged and beautiful environment.  Regardless, it isn't boring to be sure.

I'm not suggesting that reaching #6 in two would be a pushover, not at all.  Although it is 690 yards, it typically plays fast and dramatically downhill.  It would be awesome to see the PGA bombers take on that hole.  I think a few would surprise us and get there in two (or try), and many more would be brought to their knees.

Sean,

There is no fantastic golf at Echo Falls.  Poor choice of words on my part.  I like some of Bear Creek, although I haven't been there in years and years.  I thought the front nine (I think it's still the front - the one that ends in a very long par 3) was generally quite good with the exception of holes 4 and 8.  The back nine always felt forced and awkward.

 

[W.H. Cosgrove]

As the comment on Desert Canyon seems to persist, no discussion of Frei's work would be complete without mention of McCormick Woods in Port Orchard.  While Frei completed the front nine and the routing on the back, McCormick might be the best routed of his courses.  It also led the development of the other fine designs on the Kitsap Peninsula including Harbottle's Gold Mountain and Fought's Trophy Lake.

The real issue is the lack of championship quality courses in Washington.  While we seem to have a great number of second tier gems as spelled out by Michael Hayes in an earlier post.  

Could it be that the very natural beauty of the Northwest has dictated a design school of its own?  Led by Chandler Egan, Macan, Macan's protege Jack Reimer, and finally the likes of Frei and John Harbottle.  The size of the trees simply lead them to this narrow verticality of the Western Washington, Oregon and British Columbian courses.  

I live in the Pacific Northwest.  The golf we learn is not always suited to other areas of the country.  Although Fred Couples and Ryan Moore seem to adjusted.  

We don't have great architecture but the the courses do demand shotmaking and accuracy to excel.

[Jesse Jones]

I also live in the Northwest..Moved here from Cincinnati and Baltimore before that.
I was spoiled playing some of the classics in and around the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic..
I have to agree about Mr. Cosgrove's comments about the NW not have great Golf Course Architecture, but it does have some nice golf courses that demand precise shotmaking.
DC is a very nice resort course. #6 is a great hole anywhere on the planet.
But as for a course overall.. it's no Sahalee..