Redstone Golf Club / Houston ???

[Matt_Ward]

I will be traveling for a golf review I'm involved with regarding courses in and around the Houston area.

I've played my share from Bear Creek, Memorial, TPC, Champions, Lochinvar to name just a few, etc, etc.

Can anyone tell me about the new home of the Houston Open? I hear the course plays just over 7,500 yards and is a redesign by Jim Hardy and Peter Jacobsen.

Is it a better test than TPC? The top holes? Any thoughts are much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Lynn Shackelford]

It is my understanding that the course they are playing this year is a temporary stop.  The same complex is building another course, a Rees Jones design for the "permanent" site of the Houston Open.  I thought Woodlands was a good spot.  Sorry to see it leave.  I may be in the minority in this crowd, but I like Von Hagge designs (TPC Woodlands).

[Jeff Blume]

Matt,

As a golf course architect and Houston Golf Association member (the non-profit entity that operates the Shell Houston Open), I can tell you that the information on the new golf course is correct.  The Hardy-Jacobsen design is a temporary home for the tournament for two to three years.  I have not personally toured the course yet, but will do so this week in a meeting with PGA Tour security.  

The Hardy-Jacobsen golf course is a redesign of the old El Dorado Country Club, but does not resemble the old course in any way.  The course is approximately 7600 yards long, and is a more "traditional" design style than the TPC at the Woodlands.  I have seen the finishing holes on the golf course, and in my opinion they do not compare to #13-#18 at the Woodlands.  In my opinion the finishing sequence at the TPC was one of the best on the PGA Tour.  It provided excitement, spectacular hospitality venues, and ample room for non-corporate spectators.  

In defense of the Hardy-Jacobsen design, it is my understanding that it was not originally conceived as a tournament venue, and substantial work was done to upgrade the course to PGA Tour standards.  To my knowledge this work was done well, and the course should provide the Tour with a good venue for this years tournament.  All along, the Redstone Group and the HGA have planned on moving to a permanent site in two to three years.  The course will be designed by Rees Jones, and will be created to be a tournament course.

Personally, I was sad to see us move the tournament from the Woodlands.  However, I think the move was good for the overall mission of the HGA which is to raise dollars for childrens charities around the Houston area.  The move to Redstone will provide us with a better opportunity to accomplish this mission.

Comparing Redstone Golf Club to the TPC at the Woodland is difficult for me to do as I have not played or toured Redstone.  However, I will make the following analysis based on the limited knowledge I do have of the new course.  I believe the difficulty of Redstone will be primarily due to it's length.  Conversly, the TPC was not an overly long golf course (around 7000 yards), but was made difficult by the placement of hazards around the golf course.  The TPC was usually one of the most challenging courses on the PGA Tour (not including last year), and was more of a shot makers course.  This will be in sharp contrast to Redstone, which will favor the long hitter.

Matt, if you have extra time while you are in the Houston area give me a call, and I can show you some of our latest work.

Best of Luck

[Steve Lang]

I assume you've looked at the offerings at

http://www.hga.org/progress/index.cfm

then looked at the layout at

http://www.shellhoustonopen.com/img/redstone_course.gif



Blow it up, get out your ruler and check some of the distances between greens to tees.. I imagine you'll be hearing about a handful of those treks.  

I heard some initial good reviews of the course conditions from observers only late last summer.  However, I've heard that the serious rains we had last Fall hurt the planned soft opening schedule.

While I support the generic goals of the HGA, I can't help but think there is a dark side at play.  Growth of Charity $ is the company line being endlessly repeated.   Does it really matter if you're #3 or #2 or #1 in donations out of 35 tour stops?    Is bigger truly better?  Texas braggin rights?

The TPC was in tremendous shape last year, Couples was quoted as saying the greens were in better shape than ANGC's and many of the older players were a bit saddened by the loss of the tourney.  It is hard to imagine that the community support and goodwill of the Woodlands, as well as the destination can be replaced at the new venue.  The Pro-Ams certainly cannot be conveniently held.

When you go to visit, make sure you wander around the regional location a bit, like a lost tourist, cross south of Greens Bayou on Old Humble Road,  enjoy the Beltway 8 eateries & road work in progress.  

p.s.  Go out to Magnolia, NW of the Woodlands and play Blaketree National, one of our hidden gems.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I 2nd Steve's comment on Blaketree National. I played another of the Jacobson and Redstone courses a few weeks back called Blackhorse. It was a well run course and great daily fee facility. It was in great condition. It was not a tournement level course by any stretch of the imagination. It was a course with some good holes particulaly the par 3's but the course lacked great holes and holes with any bend or shape to them. It is a straight shot course with weak short par 4's and average par 5's.

[SBusch (Guest)]

A "traditional" 7,600 yard course??

[Jeff Blume]

Lynn:

Having worked for Mr. von Hagge for most of the decade of the 1990's, I am glad to hear that you appreciate his efforts.  Although my design philosophy is not exactly consistent with his, I do believe that von Hagge creates some of the most beautiful courses in the world, and that the TPC at the Woodlands is one of his more enjoyable courses in Houston.  

SBusch:

My comment about Redstone being a more traditional course was referring more to the shaping style (particularly in comparison to the TPC at the Woodlands).  It was in no way an endorsement of the idea that golf courses need to exceed 7,500 yards in length to be PGA Tour quality.  To the contrary, I believe the TPC was a very fine tournament site and it does not even approach 7,500 yards long.

Steve Lang:

As the co-chairman of the Marshals committee for the Shell Houston Open, I can tell you that I definitely have concerns about our transitions of players from greens to the next tees (hole #8 to #9 in particular), and around the clubhouse and practice range.  

[Jamie_Duffner]

Matt - As a transplanted Long Islander living in Houston, I like what Houston has to offer, but am not overwhelmed.  A lot of good courses, but nothing great.  One course I'd recommend is Meadowbrook Farms in Katy.  It's out west about 15 miles past beltway 8 off I-10.  It's a Greg Norman design that I enjoy.  

I don't know anyhting about Redstone, but was disappointed the Shell moved from the woodlands.  While a little quirky, it was a lot of fun to play.

If you have a connection, try River Oaks, the only Ross course in Houston.  Butch's brother Dick Harmon is the head pro.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I hear there  is not much Ross left at River Oaks. It was renovated without a lot of worry about the Ross of it all.

[Andy Hodson]

Alas, John and Jamie

As there is very little Ross left (the father-son Jones combo plus a little Finger thrown in has erased ala Etch-A-Sketch a very good Ross course and rendered it unrecognizable), there is no Harmon left.

He retired from ROCC almost two years ago and now runs the Harmon School of Golf for Redstone.

[texsport]

My choices for public access in the Houston area are Blaketree National in Montgomery and Jay Riviere's parkland style, River Ridge in Sealy.

Best private course is Champions Cypress Creek with Whispering Pines in Trinity, second.

Texsport

[Steve Lang]

please excuse quick hijack

texsport... do you want to join ms sheila &  i at those bluffs in LA in march?

[Raymond (Or.)]

I had the opportunity to live in the Woodlands from 71' to 75' and again from 81' to 85'. The second time I had a home on the 13th hole. I cant imagine the number of balls i dumped into the water on #13. Of course in the beginning #13 was really #3, I believe. It is a much better course under the current configuration. It was much more difficult in the early days and a little more quirky. It has always been a great tournament and the players really enjoyed being there. I remember Payne Stewart was almost always present and Curtis Strange always did well and won a couple times. I used to sit on my deck with a cold beverage and watch all the greats come through on tournament week.It was a sad day when I learned they were moving.

[texsport]

please excuse quick hijack

texsport... do you want to join ms sheila &  i at those bluffs in LA in march?

Steve

       That's a great idea! I see MS.Sheila has finally talked you into a Louisiana trip. I'd love to join you if I'm free. When did you have in mind?

John

[Steve Lang]

,

TXSport

weekend of mar 8-9.. will start another thread for possible 30th Paralell Gang Outing

[texsport]

Steve
        Coincidentally, I had planned to be at The Bluffs that weekend but have had to cancel to run a company golf outing in Houston. Outside chance I may be in Baton Rouge 10 & 11 for a meeting at L.S.U.
        The azalea season is about that time in Louisiana. Azalea Trail in Houston is March 1 and LA usually 1-2 weeks behind that. I checked with the Lodge at The Bluffs this morning and they have 7 rooms left for March 8 and more for the 9th. I didn't check for other weekends but you might want to consider lodging availability during azalea season when planning. This would be the absolute best time to be in St. Francisville and the ladies would enjoy touring the plantations (Rosedown, etc.) with all the flowers in full bloom.
         As a side, for John B.,LSU baseball team is playing Winthrop College in BR March 8&9. Playing Florida, March 14/15/16.
         I'll be watching as the group chimes in. A new 30th Parallel thread might be good.

John