Just how good is Royal Melbourne East?

[Ran Morrissett]

There is an unusually wide deviation of opinions when it comes to the merit of RM East, ranging from Doak who dismisses it from being considered a world class course with a '6' to several well traveled individuals who consider it nothing less than the second finest course in Australia.

Where do you stand in that spectrum?

I vascillate back and forth, sometimes thinking it is exceptional but probably more times than not, thinking "gee, that third paddock really is flat."

What are your favorite holes there? I really like the three holes in the second paddock and the 2nd hole would best the 18th as my favorite on the course.

[Mike_Clayton]

RM East Isnt easily the 2nd best course here but I think its marginally ahead of Kingston Heath

I played with Tom Doak a couple of years ago and I hope I'm not speaking out of school by saying he said " this is a much better course than I thought it was"

No other course here has as many holes of the quality of 1,2,3,9,10 (dodgy tee shot not withstanding),15,16,17,18. The rest are pretty good as well and there is nothing close to a bad hole

[Mark_Huxford]

Ran and Mike, having never been to Royal Melbourne I will trust your judgement on this, but doesn't the East course suffer from a disproportionate number of dogleg right holes?

Ran, in general how much does routing holes anti-clockwise on a tight property and therefore placing the out-of-bounds on the slicer's right matter?

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark

Ive never noticed the rights versus lefts but by my count 5 holes move to the right on the east and 4 left. On the west its 5 each Pretty balanced stuff really.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark

Ive never noticed the rights versus lefts but by my count 5 holes move to the right on the east and 4 left. On the west its 5 each Pretty balanced stuff really.

[Mark_Huxford]

Mike, I recall using the very good historical sections on the RM website not so long ago and the left/right thing just occurred to me from looking at the course map and hole charts they had up.

From the strokesaver type guides it looks like 9/4 for a fade but obviously appearances can be deceiving.

http://www.royalmelbourne.com.au

[Mike_Clayton]

Appearances are. 5 looks like a fade on the map but its always been a draw down there for example. Same at 11 and 12.

Just watching the carnage at The Grand- the awful converted 5 to a 4 11th is averaging 4.95 and by the end of the day they mightnt be so polite about the course. The locker room talk usually finds its way into the press after a succession of unreasonable disasters.

[harley_kruse]

Ran

I played RM East only 2 weeks ago after not playing it for 2 years. Played to temporary greens  on several holes as the greens are undergoing a regrassing programme using a grass mix selected from the original Suttons greens.  RM has decided to eliminate the Penncross greens in favour of a 'distilled' version of the original Suttons grass types (a shot gun mix of 7 or so grasses).

A few comments.

The course I believe has improved with a considered effort being made with the course environs in particular revegetation works with indigenous heathland species. This is so important on the East where (as I mentioned in  a reply to Mike Cirba's recent post) so many holes have real estate or a road boundary

The turf was in great shape firm and fast and the couch(bermuda grass) was just starting to take over the Poa ( RM has a two grass policy for its fairways)

I agree totally with Mike Clayton in that there isn't really a bad hole on the course. 1,2,3 are a great opening sequence so is the run home 15,16,17&18.

I also particularly like the short par4 9th with the longitudinal ridge and hollows leading into the green. This was a very special bit of shaping work by Morcom and Russell.

Interestingly the very old greens which haven't been touched looked liked an army camoflage paint job but boy were they firm and fast

Interesting Ran about that third paddock. Its not as flat as perhaps one initially thinks and certainly has enough undulation (albeit no where near the dramatic nature of the West)to make the course interesting and challenging.

On a final note, the bunkering of the East with the ragged heathland setting into which many of the bunkers are cut and  complete with the odd rabbit burrow in the face  still remain timeless and  inspirational.

[harley_kruse]

Mark

I forgot to mention well done on getting the plan of the course up so quickly. Great stuff

[Tom_Doak]

Ran,

I'd give the course a 7 today.  As Mike said, it has grown on me quite a bit, although as you say the third paddock is still quite flat.

I love the short par-4 East 15th, which completely escaped me in my first two visits there.  You can try to drive it, you can hit a 4-wood, or you can hit a 6-iron off the tee, but by pinching off the fairway at the 200-yard mark on the right they've really made you think.

And the East 16th has always been one of my favorite par-3's.

[Paul_Daley]

The East Course is awfully impressive - which is woeful grammar - but to the point. To my way of thinking, it is the No.3 rated course in Australia.

Mark Huxford makes a good observation about the left vs right ratio ... but playing wise, there is virtually an equal split.

The third paddock always gets a bum rap, sometimes for being less rambunctious than the West, sometimes for its change, and mixture of vegetation. However, the 14th hole is one of the best 'risk and reward' adventures going. By playing overly safe to the right, good players approach with a long-Iron or wood: By taking on the ti-tree laden corner - and succeeding - golfers can reduce the 2nd shot to a 7,8 or 9 Iron.

Back on the middle paddock, the 15th hole with its pronounced left-to-right tilting fairway, and matching green, is a super hole; made all the more spectacular by the low-lying heath stretching out from the tee. And yet, there is sufficient room for the dud golfer to play safely left.

Tom Doak makes another astute call about the 16th hole. It is easily my favourite par 3 on the sandbelt, but by no means the most difficult. Call me old fashioned ... but "harder" does not always equate with being "better".

To pick out a few holes on the East is fraught with danger: it implies the others are weak, which is not the case. The 5th, for instance, remains one of the best short holes in Melbourne.

[Ran Morrissett]

Very interesting points, and I for one sure wish GOLF Magazine would list the East and West courses on the ballot as opposed to the Composite.

Given that Royal Adelaide makes it (and deservedly so) into the world top 100, then RM East would have an excellent fighting chance too.

Match play shows the two are very close throughout but RM's famous finish sees it storm home:

1. RM East 1 up
2. 2 up
3. 1 up
4. 1 up
5. 2 up
6. 1 up
7. all square
8. all square (neither are favorites)
9. RM East 1 up

10. 1 up
11. all square
12. all square
13. all square
14. Adelaide 1 up (despite the excellence of RM's)
15. all square
16. RM east 1 up
17. RM East 2 up
18. RM East 3 up

Mike's comments on Kingston Heath make me wonder how that match play would go?

Cheers,

[harley_kruse]

Paul

I like your comments about 5th East being a great short 2 shotter. A hole that looks relatively straight forward but with its tiny and tight green falling from front to back the approach shot must be hit so carefully to get the ball in the right position. So easily to roll off the back as my PW shot in recently did

[harley_kruse]

On another matter with RM East in the last few years the club has removed old sinescent Cypress pines from some areas.  Particularly from #2 and last part of #17.  What an improvement to these holes as the golf holes and contours now sit proud and strong whereas before the Cypesses completely dominated the scene.

Interested in your thoughts Mike & Paul on the removal of these trees.

For golf viewers who want to see RM in full glory dont forget weekend  Jan 31 -Feb 3rd when the Heineken Classic will be played on the composite course.

[Paul_Daley]

Ran:

Twas a good match between R/Adelaide and the East Course. RAGC needed to have a few holes in the kitty before the big RM finish!

Harley:

While playing the West Course on Monday, I
peered across at the new-look 2nd hole (East). Wow, what a change. Coming as it does up the steep incline, it looks great.
Really "wild" and "raw" - not a million miles away from the early day pics.

The 17th hole - always a top hole - is even better now ... in its semi-nude state!

So many of the Cypress trees on the Sandbelt are past their used by date, and will be systematically removed over the next 5 years.

[Ran Morrissett]

Other than the topography, what are the biggest differences between the East and West courses?

Are the designs of comparable merit?

Is more sandy scrub and native vegetation incorporated on the West than the East?

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