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61
Sean,

The Lions are certainly far the best team in the NFL - Dan Campbell is doing a hell of a job and I do hope they go all the way this season

Still remember games as well as World Cup Football (Soccer in US speak) on TV in the old Pontiac Silverdome

Cheers
Ben


Oh yes, the Silverdome. I saw some concerts there 😎


Ciao
62
Sean,


The Lions are certainly far the best team in the NFL - Dan Campbell is doing a hell of a job and I do hope they go all the way this season


Still remember games as well as World Cup Football (Soccer in US speak) on TV in the old Pontiac Silverdome


Cheers
Ben
63
Clayts


Would it be better if 14 clubs were reduced to 10 and everyone carries their bag.


Less clubs would bring back more interesting shotmaking


Cheers
Ben
64
"Colt Braid and Simpson courses look similar however play a bit different only a few of us will notice it not the everyday golfer - sometimes the similarity could be down to construction approaches that they had at the time working within their limitations. These days a lot more can be done construction wise.

The opposite - it probably would be artificial - look at the proposed buildings in Saudi Arabia - Gidori for one - building wise however the course is being done by Nicklaus which is not a golf course version of the proposed building

https://www.neom.com/en-us/regions/magna/gidori

This building proposal made me jump out of my seat as a student Peter Eisenman's Musee Du Quai Branly competition entry - it was 2nd in the competition which was won by Jean Nouvel that was built. However its forms created by computer and we do have construction techniques to form these shapes I have often though could this form create one or a few holes

https://eisenmanarchitects.com/Musee-du-quai-Branly-1999

There are other design ideas from Zaha Hadid, Charles Jencks, Piet Oudolf with nature and Enric Miralles with artistic land forms.

https://www.zaha-hadid.com/architecture/landesgardenschau-landscape-formation-one/

This may be far fetched for many on this site. There are other design influences like car bodywork and product designs."




The resurrection of Desmond Muirhead beckons?

Or perhaps the return to Victorian exagerrated Geometric design?

I am suprised that such approaches have not been attempted/returned to but it would take a very brave (& wealthy) developer to do something so out of the norm.

Perhaps in the Virtual design sphere (TLC, Simulators etc.) this may come in, think Video Game Super Mario meets Muirhead?
But too far away for the real world I suspect.


Is that the future of golf course design in virtual simulators like in Star Trek the Next Generation?


Wasn't Keiser brave to put a young DMK to work on Bandon? Who knows who will be the next ones to do it in a different way.


The younger generation have been influenced by computer games and different things - will golf survive in 50 years time with the similar numbers or more will move towards a virtual world with dynamic and unusual golf course designs.


Not many know that Desmond Muirhead helped to design the first iteration of Muirfield Village with Nicklaus and used in 1987 Ryder Cup.


I personally feel too many golf course designs are too safe and conservative in approach would be fortunate if someone comes up with something different and radical in my lifetime.


Has anyone seen Augustin Piza's proposals for a par 5 temple hole for TGL? - https://www.tglgolf.com/videos/2024/10/29/hole-strategy---temple
65
Obviously not new courses-and bastardized versions of their original design-but PCC #1/#3 are the poster children for this scheme.
P.S. In January, BOTH could be played in about three hours.
Sedge Valley is so important to this concept getting any traction in the US.
It is Tom Doak doing as Pete Dye is often cited as doing, an about face to recent mega scale projects and a welcome change in direction.

I hope it doesn't just end up as a design curiosity, albeit a great one as is the current status of The Loop.
But it is so great Tom keeps trying to find alternative concepts, and the developers who embrace these.
(I'd include Brian & Blake's Kids Course at Old Barnwell in this "movement" too, perhpas "New Barnwell" may reinforce the concept when it comes along?)

Brian's point is correct, there is a 6000yd or less course hidden within every longer course if shorter tees are available and desired, this is great especially in winter. Clubs can embrace this by adding events or competitions that force/encourage play from forward tees (perhaps with reduced no.s of clubs as well to encourage walking and creativity in shot making)

But, the best version of these are designed as such, including Formby Ladies (notably without a review on here) and Sunningdale Heath (nee Ladies)
See:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67423.msg1611407/topicseen.html#msg1611407

Cheers
66
Another pilot? Theres goes the neighborhood.


Welcome Steven!
67

Hi Niall

I broadly agree, but I would say that not only Harry Colt needs the high bar.
As we have seen in the US restoration movement there are many examples of other worthy architects worth protecting/restoring too (could be Fernie, Taylor, Vardon or dare I say Braid).
It's about respecting what went before on that particular site, as you say, to the best possible result.

Cheers


Simon


I've omitted my original post so as to keep this a reasonable length.


I'd suggest that there are perhaps two factors as to why restoration is big in the US in a way it isn't in the UK;


- a great many of our courses were designed and built pre golden age and I'd suggest have evolved on an almost continuous basis since, incorporating different styles/ideas along the way. What do you do with a course like that ? Take it back to it's Victorian roots ? I'd suggest not. Certainly, I can't think of the near 130 courses that Fernie worked on that would merit the full restoration treatment.


- the biggest and most obvious factor is money, or the relative lack of it. How many clubs have the budget for a comprehensive restoration/refurb ? Probably very few.


That's not to say that some architects aren't trying very hard to make mileage out of restoring golden age gca's work.


Niall   
68
Obviously not new courses-and bastardized versions of their original design-but PCC #1/#3 are the poster children for this scheme.
P.S. In January, BOTH could be played in about three hours.


Peter-I would put Franklin Park in Boston on the “poster child” list as well. George Wright seems to steal all the accolades as the city’s go to play but FP fits Ran’s requirement and is a blast. A hole to note is the par four 12th that I would consider one of the best in the area from either the private or public course stable.
69
Ben

The building architecture examples isn't giving me a sense of what you mean for golf architecture.

Ciao


If you seen the roof forms of Eisenman's proposal - that could be recreated in big and bold landforms and you thread holes through the lower parts or over them.

I would conclude that Building Architecture is far more advanced and has much greater variety when it comes to design styles than golf course design which seems to be rather monotonous at present ie everyone doing similar work not one out of the box
70
Obviously not new courses-and bastardized versions of their original design-but PCC #1/#3 are the poster children for this scheme.
P.S. In January, BOTH could be played in about three hours.
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