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11
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: 6,000 yards 14 clubs 3 hours
« Last post by Thomas Dai on Today at 10:35:32 AM »
It’s there already!
Folks don’t need, need, really need, to play from back tees nor have 14 clubs in the bag.

Move the tees forward and carry only 7-8 clubs.
And have courses set-up with less rough and gunch so finding wayward shots is quicker.
Fingers crossed for less than 3 hrs.
Atb
12
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: Three Hole Loops
« Last post by Will Spivey on Today at 10:20:17 AM »
Quote from: Cal Seifert on Yesterday at 08:07:01 PM
Old Town Club has a brilliant 3 hole loop on holes 1,2, and 3. After 3 you are basically back at your car / clubhouse too. Within these 3 holes you hit a variety of downhill and uphill shots and play a par 3.


Cal, I love that loop, and I would add 10, 11, 18, which is another common 3 hole loop for members.
13
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: 6,000 yards 14 clubs 3 hours
« Last post by Jason_Bernardon on Today at 10:15:01 AM »
Quote from: Sean_A on Today at 09:59:14 AM

I like your point about courses much less than 6000 yards. It seems like 9 hole courses are the most fertile grounds for sub 3000 yarders.

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60714.msg1612703.html#msg1612703

Ciao


That describes my home course perfectly.


https://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/review-norfolk-golf-country-club/



14
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / The newest Course at St Andrews is Hiring - Previously aka "The Feddinch Club"
« Last post by Simon Barrington on Today at 10:13:30 AM »
https://www.bigga.org.uk/career/golf-courses-manager-1.html
15
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: Who Are You Guys(revisited)?
« Last post by Steven Wade on Today at 10:08:20 AM »
Quote from: Ben Sims on Today at 09:15:30 AM
Another pilot? Theres goes the neighborhood.


Welcome Steven!


You too! Give me the specifics.


Thanks for the welcomes everyone.
16
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: 6,000 yards 14 clubs 3 hours
« Last post by Sean_A on Today at 09:59:14 AM »
Quote from: Simon Barrington on Today at 09:20:00 AM
Quote from: Peter Sayegh on Today at 08:56:39 AM
Obviously not new courses-and bastardized versions of their original design-but PCC #1/#3 are the poster children for this scheme.
P.S. In January, BOTH could be played in about three hours.
Sedge Valley is so important to this concept getting any traction in the US.
It is Tom Doak doing as Pete Dye is often cited as doing, an about face to recent mega scale projects and a welcome change in direction.

I hope it doesn't just end up as a design curiosity, albeit a great one as is the current status of The Loop.
But it is so great Tom keeps trying to find alternative concepts, and the developers who embrace these.
(I'd include Brian & Blake's Kids Course at Old Barnwell in this "movement" too, perhpas "New Barnwell" may reinforce the concept when it comes along?)

Brian's point is correct, there is a 6000yd or less course hidden within every longer course if shorter tees are available and desired, this is great especially in winter. Clubs can embrace this by adding events or competitions that force/encourage play from forward tees (perhaps with reduced no.s of clubs as well to encourage walking and creativity in shot making)

But, the best version of these are designed as such, including Formby Ladies (notably without a review on here) and Sunningdale Heath (nee Ladies)
See:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67423.msg1611407/topicseen.html#msg1611407

Cheers

I like your point about courses much less than 6000 yards. It seems like 9 hole courses are the most fertile grounds for sub 3000 yarders.

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60714.msg1612703.html#msg1612703

Ciao
17
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: 6,000 yards 14 clubs 3 hours
« Last post by Ian Mackenzie on Today at 09:54:02 AM »
Played Sedge in October in an annual event that pits the best golfers at our club against the caddies, pros and resort managers at SV, now in its 7th or 8th year. This year it was 1 round at Sedge, 1 round on Sandbox and 1 round at Lido.


(This year, we were massacred...;-)


But, we played a lot of golf with some of the best caddies there and they said that Sedge can serve up some long-ass rounds of 4:30-5:00 hours.


There are two "choke points" on the course:


On the front 9, there is a par 3 (5th), then a drivable par 4 followed by another par 3 then a long par 3. They say that it really gets backed up when groups search for balls in tall grass and every one seems to think they can get home on the par 4.


Then on the back, hole 11 is a reachahble par 5 (driver 5 iron for me) followed by a very reachable par 4 but with trouble everywhere then followed by a tricky par 3 with a massive green where 3-putting is the norm.


My point is that yardage alone may not reduce pace of play.
As this is a topic we have debated for years, I still default to the two things that can be decrease the horrendous pace of play now common at places like Sand Valley.


1. Ready golf
2. Having a pre-shot routine that is under 20 seconds.


(#. That and please limit your alcohol intake....;-)
18
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: Care and Quality in US Restoration/Renovations vs. UK? Bunkering especially...?
« Last post by Simon Barrington on Today at 09:51:29 AM »
"Simon
I've omitted my original post so as to keep this a reasonable length.
- Point taken ;-)

I'd suggest that there are perhaps two factors as to why restoration is big in the US in a way it isn't in the UK;

- a great many of our courses were designed and built pre golden age and I'd suggest have evolved on an almost continuous basis since, incorporating different styles/ideas along the way. What do you do with a course like that ? Take it back to it's Victorian roots ? I'd suggest not. Certainly, I can't think of the near 130 courses that Fernie worked on that would merit the full restoration treatment.
- Agree, but that is also often used as justification for removing some of the relevant remnants of some ODGs input, when less-informed folk get involved.
- Good restoration chooses the version that most resonates and focuses around that but not at the exclusion of all other inputs, its a balance. Andrew Green has spoken about that in several podcasts of late, I like his approach.
- I am really interested in Fernie and would love to learn more from you about his work. The nods to pre-Golden Age that some GCA's are making may give oxygen to greater interest in his ilk?

- the biggest and most obvious factor is money, or the relative lack of it. How many clubs have the budget for a comprehensive restoration/refurb ? Probably very few.
- That's true, but organic gradual improvement over several years with careful stewardship can get a far better result than a rushed mistake IMHO

That's not to say that some architects aren't trying very hard to make mileage out of restoring golden age gca's work.
- Some of the lip-service "expertise" is really quite worrying. But, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king...

Niall"
Cheers & thanks
19
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Last post by Sean_A on Today at 09:47:24 AM »
Quote from: Ben Stephens on Today at 09:25:55 AM
Sean,

The Lions are certainly far the best team in the NFL - Dan Campbell is doing a hell of a job and I do hope they go all the way this season

Still remember games as well as World Cup Football (Soccer in US speak) on TV in the old Pontiac Silverdome

Cheers
Ben


Oh yes, the Silverdome. I saw some concerts there 😎


Ciao
20
Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group / Re: Golf in Scotland is sinking fast
« Last post by Ben Stephens on Today at 09:25:55 AM »
Sean,


The Lions are certainly far the best team in the NFL - Dan Campbell is doing a hell of a job and I do hope they go all the way this season


Still remember games as well as World Cup Football (Soccer in US speak) on TV in the old Pontiac Silverdome


Cheers
Ben
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