Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jaeger Kovich on July 24, 2009, 07:03:53 PM
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So the past two days the grounds crew at the club I work at has been spraying some "unknown" substance which is bright green. Yesterday they only did the fairways, and the entire thing glowed almost neon green for the entire day, and was still looking like it was radio active today... Today they were out spraying again, this time, only on the tees and the mowed walkways from tee to fairway, and tomorrow they are spraying on the greens.
What is this stuff? Could it be some sort of die for the grass to make it look greener? We have had a lot of rain in this part of the country, followed by some pretty dry weather and the members were complaining about "burnt out fairways". I guess it could possibly be some sort of fertilizer that is mixed to glow like that so that you don't re-spray areas that have already been treated. Keep in my the club lost the greens about 4 years ago, and the new super seems "scared" to let them go.
The stuff has been turning white shoes green, balls green, and staining clothes (it doesn't come out in the wash). I cant imagine anything that glows/stains like that is terribly good for anything, including the grass, and Im sure I have it all over myself by the end of 18 holes.... should the club be warning its workers/players about washing hands/eating? The guys running the sprayers are all completely covered head to toe, while I'm out there looping in shorts ingesting the stuff.... is there anything to worry about?
I would greatly appreciate some help, as I am a bit concerned for my health, and curious about the course.
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Its just dye so they can see where they are going.
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Jaeger,
why not just ask them?
Sometimes the simplest route is often the best, grasshopper.
best,
FBD.
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Jaeger:
A turf professor who's an old friend told me last year that a number of clubs back east had been using a turf product on their courses, and after many expensive applications they'd discovered that it was the effect of the dye, rather than the active ingredient, which was improving performance. So, I think now someone is selling just the dye. I have no idea if that's what you saw, though.
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Marty - I asked 2 people, and got 2 different responses!
First I asked the amigos on the grounds crew... they said is was just dye.
Then I asked one of our assistant pros... he said it was fertilizer they were putting down, but he thought it had a dye in it so they wouldn't over spray some sections.
Tom - So this dye actually improves turf conditions? I have a feeling this may just be to get the members to stop complaining about "burnout" from 2 days of sun!
So there is nothing to be "worried" about in terms of health other than feeling like a martian in a bad sci-fi movie?!
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Tom - So this dye actually improves turf conditions?
Just like food coloring improves the flavor of frosting on a cupcake... ;D
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Actually, Jeff has it mostly correct. The dye helps make sure they don't miss any spots.
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Jaeger-As most have said, its most likely just a dye; not toxic, but thats not saying go out and lick the golf balls with your tongue right after they come off the green and have that nice green stripe around them either. If you want the full answer, get there early tomorrow morning and search out the guy who seems to be in charge and ask him. Or, if you're not out there early and its really hot tomorrow where ever you are, go out about 2pm or so and find the guy in the Gator/Carry-all type vehicle dragging a large water hose around the green; he'll likely be fairly sweaty as well. Unless he's a pure jackass, he'll be more than happy to tell you whatever you want to know since that says you're actually trying to learn whats going on rather that bitching about something you have no clue about.
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Ask if they're using a product called Civitas. It's an oil based fungicide/insecticide that has a bright green activator which doubles as a dye. This could be the product to which Tom Doak is referring.
The next assistant pro I meet that is aware of what actually goes on with spraying will be the first...
...sorry Cory.
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Why wouldn't you just ask the superintendent what is being sprayed? I'm sure somebody in the clubhouse knows how to get ahold of him...
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Not that I'm for more regulation but shouldn't this stuff be posted on the first tee or in the clubhouse? Every factory I've been in for the last few years has an MSDS posted next to the handsoap in the bathroom -- everyone wonders what's being applied why not be proactive?
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Buck - I think the use of chemicals is so restricted now that you cant apply anything particulary dangerous to amenity turf, so nothing should be harmful. We post some signs on the 1st & 10th tees for some spraying but we wouldnt if we were spraying a wetting agent or a foliar feed, always we include a bluey green dye which as mentioned is to show the applicator where he has been.
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Ask if they're using a product called Civitas. It's an oil based fungicide/insecticide that has a bright green activator which doubles as a dye. This could be the product to which Tom Doak is referring.
From the website
"CIVITAS is not a chemical fungicide. It’s a plant defense activator. CIVITAS works by turning on the natural defenses of the plant to resist fungus attack. Technically speaking, its synthetic isoparaffin-based formulation triggers Induced Systemic Resistance (ISR) in the grass to defend against fungus attack. Since the fungus can’t gain a foothold on the grass, it dies off."
If the "green fertilizer spray" wasnt just a dye, it could have been Signature Fungicide with a turfguard color protectant. It's the Alliette in the Signature that is so beneficial to the turfgrass and the pigment in the fungicide that protects the plant.
Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL
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Jaeger, if you had a question about what type of shaft you should be playing in your driver do go ask the Assistant Superintendent or the cart girl?
Go ask the superintendent and change you intial post. You should be worried about all the insecticides, fungicides, and herbicides that are sprayed on all fruit and vegitables you eat, not what may be sprayed sporadicly on golf turf that your just walking across.
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A buddy of mine and I were playing Sanford Municipal Golf Club - a 1934 Donald Ross in NC - and the greens were definitely an unnatural shade of green - almost a lime color. My friend went in and asked the pro what it was and he said it was sprayed on the greens. I'm not sure if this photo shows it very well but it give you an idea.
(http://sandhillsinsider.com/Sanford/015.jpg)
By the way, it is a pretty good muni. I doubt it has been changed much since Ross built it. Almost no houses on it and it is $13 to walk. I would not go out of my way to play it. But if one of you guys finish playing Tobacco Road early (which is just a few miles away) and have a lot of energy left you may want to check it out.
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Chris-I think a great deal is different about Sanford, especially on the back 9. The front I thought was likely original, but the back 9, unless I am greatly wrong seems to be a bunch out of character. I felt like, at the very lest, 11, 12 and 16 were woefully out of place and out of character with the rest of the holes on the course.
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Its just dye so they can see where they are going.
Actually, more like where they have been ... ;)
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John, you may be right about Sanford. I don't know too much about how Sanford Muni has evolved. Except for the side of one hole I don't recall any real estate developments on the course. I'm not sure why they would have changed it but they may have.
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John, you may be right about Sanford. I don't know too much about how Sanford Muni has evolved. Except for the side of one hole I don't recall any real estate developments on the course. I'm not sure why they would have changed it but they may have.
I am not sure either, I just remember feeling like those holes on the back had a very different feeling than the rest. I felt like the front 9 was highly original though. Which hole had real estate? I remember one hole on the front having a cemetery to the right, maybe hole #7, but I don't remember any houses; though its been over 3 years since I played there.
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John, unless I'm mistaken the houses were on the 10th or 11th hole. There was one unobtrusive house on the front 9. And yes, there was a very big graveyard to the right of one hole. I don't think I recall playing another course where there was a big graveyard right next to the fairway.
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Along the same lines as most have commented on this thread, the "bright green" immediate color is likely a paint or dye of some sort.
Some golf courses will put a dye in with tank mixes of other chemicals to be able to easier see where there last pass was and not overlap the chemical (which can double the application rate and sometimes actually kill turf). Along with this explaination, it should be noted that if you ever see little droplets of a white, foamy substance on the course, especially in the early morning, this is another way of marking the sprayer's path with a very mild foamy soap solution (think bubble bath). Neither will hurt you, but it's never a good idea to stick anything off a golf course in your mouth, for a multitude of reasons.
The other alternative is paint. Especially if the rest of the course of going "brownish," though it seems a bit early in the season, some grasses could be starting to go dormant. Usually colder temperatures will bring this on, but lack of water in the heat can cause the same reaction. Similar to the picture posted above, here'a link to a USGA article about such practices: http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=11317
Either way, again.....nothing to worry about.
As far as posting what is being sprayed on a golf course, it actually is often done at many golf courses. And it usually IS a requirement that if you ever have any concerns or questions about any spraying that is going on, you can and should ask the superintendent to produce the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for the chemical, which will tell you if you have anything to worry about. Posting on a golf course is a bit more diffcult than the handsoap in a restroom. No matter where a posting is made, it can be hard to convey WHERE the chemical is specfically sprayed as it is hardly the case that the entire course is sprayed, and also WHAT those chemicals are exactly and WHY they are being sprayed. No offense to the general public, but most people don't have the slightest clue how complex integrated pest management is on a golf course and the thought process and rational we superintendents go through to guide our spraying and applications. The few times I've tried, I tend to lose the person after trying to simply describe the difference between a fungicide, insecticide and herbicide and their relative harm to humans.
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So I finally found out what this mystery spray was... Cervitas... apparently it is a fungicide that turns the grass almost a milky white color, so the green was a dye that is mixed in because nobody likes a white golf course!
How can something that turns grass white really be that great for it?
Also, yesterday another fertilizer, without insecticide or pesticide was sprayed on all the fairways. How come I keep reading about how good golf course maintenance practices are moving away from spraying and over watering, but this place always seems to double up?
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Jaeger,
You're making assumptions based on perception.
Would you rather have your superintendent apply 4 pounds of nitrogen per thousand square feet annually with a granular fertilization done every other month, or have him or her apply 1 1/2 pounds of the same through the sprayer applied bi-weekly over the course of the season? The latter results in far less chance of run-off and over-fertilization, but you see it as a bad thing that they're out there more often.
You need to know more before jumping to conclusions. It obviously bothers you, so go talk to your super and, in a non-confrontational manner, ask them about their practices.
You can't make a statement like "How can something that turns grass white really be that great for it?" and expect it to be taken seriously.
Joe
Joe
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Joe - Fair enough... The course is in pretty good shape at the moment to, to be fair to him. Everything has improved since I first came to the club, I just wonder sometimes what is really necessary. There can be only one Augusta!
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Jaeger,
That, in part, is my point. You need to know more of the facts before you can determine what is or isn't necessary. You weren't based in fact, but perception...and likely still are.
Go and learn, young man!
:)
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Joe - Fair enough... The course is in pretty good shape at the moment to, to be fair to him. Everything has improved since I first came to the club, I just wonder sometimes what is really necessary. There can be only one Augusta!
The grass needs N-P-K regardless of location.
Try eating all your food for the year in one sitting!