Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Matt_Ward on December 20, 2003, 02:14:30 PM
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I'd like to get feedback from folks who have a good bit of knowledge on the golf in Hawaii.
I am preparing a major travel piece for a few speciality magazines and I'd like to get some sense of the best "pure golf" experience. Just to be clear -- I'm not speaking about the food, the pool, the spa, the views from the hotel -- yada, yada, yada. Just the golf -- pure and simple.
If you can assist with the top five courses on each of thes three islands listed below it would be most appreciated. Please list courses no matter the classification. Many thanks and happy holidays ... ;)
*Oahu
*Maui
*Big Island
One other thing -- if you mention a course that you have played from say 5 years or more please make note of it because the most current info is always the more reliable.
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Kahuku Links (niner) near North Shore on Oahu (toward Kaneohe).
I think it's 10 dollars and you will be in warmest Scotland on simple golfing grounds.
Sandy (deep sand) turf.
Quirk.
Windy.
Windblown trees looking rather bonsai.
Views that are glorious and some features that are imaginative.
One blind shot at 8. Be sure to look off at the virgin linksland! behind this green and dream of another nine.
Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
It's where the locals play. (Don't be an ugly Hauli)
Go snorkeling afterwards.
Take SPF lip balm.
Take pictures.
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Slag:
Do you have any Website info? Can you provide any other course specifics -- like approximate total length, designer, par for each nine, memorable holes beyond the 8th.
It sounds quite inviting.
I know my wife will enjoy the snorkeling part.
Thanks ... ;)
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Have heard raves about David Kidd's new course on the big island (Namea?).
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Slag: I never imagined anyone on this DG would have played Kahuku. It's great fun and it's actually on the East shore of Oahu, as Turtle Bay is the end of the North Shore.
Matt: It really is a step back in time and you'll get to know some locals, so if you want to go surfing they can take you or you can at least drop their names so you don't get too "vibed" in the water. BTW, if you don't surf--at least try it once, go to Waikiki, home of the best beginner wave in the world.
It seems like you would dig Koolau which you can access from the East shore or the Honolulu area. It has some insanely high slope rating, 150ish as I recall.
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Matt, this is what I found... (Seems the greens fees have gone way up since last Fall.)
www.hawaiigolfguide.com/courses/kahukuoahu/1025.html
(please notice - NO RENTAL CARTS available!) Hallelujah!
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There's also Coral Creek (Robin Nelson) west of Honolulu that, on it's 10th hole, has a huge waterfall behind the green. Other than that it has a lot of fun stuff.
http://www.coralcreekgolfhawaii.com/
Andy, Jonathan C has also played it and has a great story to tell of Kaneohe Marine Base Golf Course, which has a few great holes.
I wanted to play Ko'olau but ran out of time. I was warned about it's severity but also that it was quite beautiful. Next time for sure.
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Matt
Although I haven't been there yet, a friend who has gave The Dunes at Maui Lani high praise. It's ranked #8 in Hawaii by Golfweek, if that means anything to you. It's described as an "inland links."Take a look:
www.dunesatmauilani.com
Steve
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You can't beat the Kapalua Plantation course on Maui. Great golf course, unbelievable views, etc. etc. I also played the Palmer course there (Village?), which was decent resort golf, but nowhere near the Plantation course.
On the Big Island I played Mauna Kea, and was a little underwhelmed.
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The Plantation Course is an amazing layout and great use of land. When I played a couple of years ago the greens were very slow which was a bit of a drag.
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Hi Matt - The family & I are headed that way in January.
I was there last year as well on the Big Island.
Here's what I liked:
Hualulai - Nicklaus course - Senior PGA Tour stop in Jan.
Best greens I've seen in Hawaii.
Some of the holes are quite ordinary, others are exceptional.
I toured the Weiskopf 9 holes last year - didn't play it.
Seemed like too much elevation change for my taste.
Mauna Lani - North & South
OK - You asked for pure golf - the scenery and excitement of hitting the shots on the par 3's over water are fantastic. Maybe it's not a purist's heaven, but I love the uniqueness of it.
Kapulua - Dilapidated.
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Matt
Kahuku Links??? It was 5 miles north of my house. It is basic golf to the point of extreme! I can't imagine a golfer of your ability would get much out of this place. Nine flags are planted in a poorly mowed (where there is any grass) field. When I lived there it was $4 to play and they overcharged you!
Oahu - play Koolau. It will be in bad shape, take you 5 hours to play and even you Matt will lose a few slieves of balls. What you will take from Koolau is an appreciation for golf design difficulty. For fun, play Luana Hills. This PBDye course (a few miles from Koolau) has a back nine routed through a dense jungle. It is an excellent example of how the land dictated the course resulting in almost no good holes. But the setting is mystical. Mid Pacific - this quiet Seth Raynor design is the stuff of quality golf and old time architecture. Oahu CC - constrained set of holes running up and down a narrow valley, but the greens are always perfect and the 150 year old banyon trees are unique.
Maui - agree with Dunes at Maui Lani - affordable with some holes of merit. I've also enjoyed the Makena and Wailua courses - setting sun scenery unparalleled. Stay away from Kaanapoli and Kapalua - $250+ a round....
Big Island - Big Island CC - this place is 45 minutes up the mt from Kona, is uncrowded, reasonably priced and they had lots of acreage to build on. Holes explore a well varied piece of topography. Waimea is also a pleasant inland tract build within the Parker Ranch. After golf stop by Merriman's for steaks!
Call me before you go.
JC
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Gentlemen:
Appreciate the help. I'll be in Hawaii the beginning of February for two weeks and since my wife and I will be with another couple (fortunately the guy does play golf) I'll need a good combination of golf options.
I'm grateful for those who have pinpointed a few places that are modest in the green fees department. I will only have two days in Oahu before venturing to the Big Island for a week and then a about 4-5 days in Maui.
Just a quick question for those who may know --
How worthwhile is playing The Price Course on Kaui? It's been consistently rated among the 4-5 best courses in all of the islands and wanted to get some feedback.
Jonathan:
Thanks for the heads-up on Koolau although I have to add that from what I have heard the course is perpetually wet and a few of the "forced carries" from the tips can be a bit much. Nonetheless, it might be something to see.
I'll contact you after Xmas for a few thoughts.
One last thing --
On Oahu I'm looking to play something that fits the Hawaiian landscape with some real architectural elements that are beyond the r-e-s-o-r-t-i-s-h type stuff that dots the landscape. If someone has the "one" place on Oahu that fits the bill I'm all ears.
On the Big Island there seems to be a mixed bag regarding Kapulua -- some rave about it and yet I have heard from a few others that it doesn't have the complete package for the entire round.
P.S. I hope to check out Nanea and play the new Nicklaus course for Lyle Anderson called The Club at Hokuli'a -- both on the Big Island.
Appreciate all the feedback and suggestions ... ;)
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Matt,
Kauai has two excellent golf courses at opposite ends of the price spectrum. The Prince course at Princeville is the best course I have played in Hawaii, if there is any way to fit it in I don't think you will be disappointed. $$$$ :P, but worth a look for sure. The other course is a muni, which I cannot remember the name of. Its between the airport and Princeville, more towards the airport. It hosted the Publinx or something along those lines around the time I played it. The best value in Hawaii that I have played (~$35 at the time). Decent architecture and right next to the ocean. An excellent combo to play both of those tracks during your trip. I would skip the Oahu golf and go to Kauai.
Good talking to you yesterday, have a great trip. I look forward to hearing about the Big Island courses, I will be there in April.
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Maui has a lot of good golf courses, but price could be a factor. Kapalua Bay is just beautiful. The hotel there is in a gorgeous spot and the snorkling there is first rate. The Plantation course is definitely worth playing and I have always enjoyed the Bay Course with it's ocean vistas. Makena is also very good. The Trent Jones Jr. North course is a challenging and pretty layout. The Sands at Maui Lani is a links course near the airport. Very windy, it is an ok layout but reasonable in price. My good friend Bill Greenleaf, former head pro at Sunningdale in Scarsdale, N.Y. is the director of instruction and is an awesome teacher. If you had a lot of time, it's certainly worth going to Lanai- the Lodge at Koele is fabulous and the Greg Norman Experience at Koele is very nice with one of the most spectacular driving holes you will every see.
On the Big Island, the Mauna Kea is the best course- it is very classy and architecturally excellent. I think it's the best course I have played in Hawaii. In the winter you can often see whales. The Mauna Lani courses are fun because of the stark contrast between the fairways and the black lava.
If you did get to Kauai, Princeville is terrific although you have to play it a couple of times because you can run out of fairway on some holes, and Kauai Lagoons is a lot of fun. Poipu, although well known is not that great in my book.
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Matt - a few corrections... You say Kapu(a)lua on The Big Island. I'm sure you meant Maui. lwaynef says "Sands of Maui Lani". It's The Dunes at Maui Lani.
I agree with ed_getka - The Prince (not to be confused with the original three nines at Princeville) at Princeville is the best course on the Islands. The Kauai public course cited is called Wailua and it is quite good - wind a huge factor and the back nine much better (and harder) than the front.
Still stand by my opinion that Oahu CC and MidPac CC on Oahu are the most interesting (very non-resort) architecture on Oahu.
JC
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Matt:
Will get back on this one but 2 quick thoughts:
1) I'm the only guy I know that doesn't think The Prince is the best course in Hawai'i. Like Hudson National, it's a fine effort on a tough piece of property. The other courses on Kauai are just as good IMO - one of them a hidden gem called Grove Farms that Steve Case just bought and finished the last 4 holes.
I also like Maidstone a lot so consider the source of this opinion.
2) The purest golf on Oahu is Oahu CC, IMO. Mid-Pac is close behind and Kaneohe Clipper at the Marine Corps base on the north side of the island has some absolutely world-class holes down by the ocean. OCC and MPCC are private clubs - let me know if you need help getting on.
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It seems the preferred island of choice for all-around golf is Maui. Am I wrong with that statement?
P.S. For those who favor The Prince -- just want to know any particular details that makes it the top choice among GD ratings and GW? Thanks ... ;)
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On the Big Island, the Mauna Kea is the best course- it is very classy and architecturally excellent. I think it's the best course I have played in Hawaii. In the winter you can often see whales. The Mauna Lani courses are fun because of the stark contrast between the fairways and the black lava.
If you did get to Kauai, Princeville is terrific although you have to play it a couple of times because you can run out of fairway on some holes, and Kauai Lagoons is a lot of fun. Poipu, although well known is not that great in my book.
I have to disagree with Mauna Kea, I thought it was terrible. Its basically a 1 hole golf course (the 3rd) and its too hard for the average resort player. The conditions are horid and staff rude.
Nanea up on the hill is supposdly very difficult but very interesting and I'm hearing some pretty good things about the Big Island CC.
On Kauai, I've played Princville once and lost a dozen balls so can't really comment although its very pretty. I liked Kauai Lagoons quite a bit, some good variety, interesting holes.
On Oahu, I think you could narrow it down to three courses, with the new Robin Nelson course called Royal Kunia probably being the best. Its up on a mountain by the airport with great views.
Matt: If you want to talk with Robin Nelson who has designed 30+ courses in Hawaii let me know.
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Joel:
I send you an offline message. Thanks for the suggestion on Royal Kunia.
Can someone explain to me how Mauna Kea gets rated soooo high -- it seems a good number of people feel it simply gets it inks with a johnny "one-note" hole (e.g. the 3rd)?
P.S. Clearly, there are ranges in taste but the perspective of Hawaiian golf is generally diverse given what people have said thus far. Very interesting ... ;)
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Matt: I've played the Prince course about a dozen times, all of them before I became more attuned to design, so my memories as more visceral than specific. That said, what I took away from the course was amazing beauty, poor greens, heroic carries on a number of holes and the feeling that whenever I parred a hole, it was a quite a triumph.
The 1st hole is the hardest opening hole I've ever played. The 10th is a goofy horsehose like par 5 which I hate. Very curious as to others thoughts on this hole. Still, IMO it far outshines Poipu and the Lagoons course near the airport.
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Matt:
Are you also looking at courses on Kauai? Grove Farm was a public 10 hole golf course which was purchased by Steve Case of AOL. He hired Robin Nelson to complete the course which opened all 18 a few months ago. I believe they have a web site and Robin speaks very highly of the course.
One other course I forgot to mention that I liked was Launa Hills on Oahu. Its in a very jungle like setting, designed by one of the Dyes. Its one of the more challenging courses on Oahu, could be set up to play fairly hard. The course has some good qualities, which would rank in my top 5 for Oahu.
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I spend a good bit of time on the Big Island every year for R&R, but usually play little golf. Of the ones I've seen or played, though, would rate them as follows (no differentation of private/public). Also, my criteria is fun, not rankings, as this is why you play vacation golf.
Nanea, Mauna Kea, Mauna Lani (Ocean), Makalei, Big Island, Hualalai.
I thought Nanea was pretty interesting. Doesnt' look like much from the road (golf on a steady sideslope) but many more subleties on site that Kidd and his talented crew (Jay, Paul) did a good job with.
Heard Mauna Kea was looking more encroached of late with mansions. Agree it's not really up to the ratings it's gotten, but still plenty of good and fun holes...would say more than just #3, certainly.
Just played Makalei. Similar to Big Island, in that it's "inland", up at an elevation of 2-3,000 feet or so, core golf, Dye group (I think) and diverse in it's vegetation from what you're used to down by the water. Felt a bit like Jurasic Park! Is 900' of elevation change, which amazed me (and they display it on the card like that's a good thing!). Of course, cart-golf, but had some really fun holes. I liked it better than Big Island, in that it had fewer railroad tie-lakes, and better shaping. Is in worse shape, though. Intrawest took over Big Island, and supposedly in good shape now.
Need to see Hokulia (new Nicklaus), as I've heard it's good, and heard from Kidd group that Waikaloa Kings course was interesting, but haven't seen it.
Have fun! That's what I do there. It's not the best golf in the world, but can be very enjoyable.
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Matt:
Will get back on this one but 2 quick thoughts:
1) I'm the only guy I know that doesn't think The Prince is the best course in Hawai'i. Like Hudson National, it's a fine effort on a tough piece of property. The other courses on Kauai are just as good IMO - one of them a hidden gem called Grove Farms that Steve Case just bought and finished the last 4 holes.
Chip, now you know 2. I'm not a big fan of the Prince either. I liked Wailua Municipal and Poipu Bay more. I also enjoyed Kauai Lagoons, Kiele course as much as the Prince. The Prince just seemed to be forced into the land, with many of the par 5s and quite a few par 4s forcing layups off the tee.
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Matt,
Kapalua Plantation is one of my favourite courses anywhere--which means you'll hate it ;) ;) As others mentioned above, terrific ground game options, lots of width, a decent challenge if the wind is up and some QUIRK due to the sloping terrain and grain. However, you won't feel that your driving game is challenged, Matt, and that's why you won't like it... :( :( Note: do NOT hit driver on the Plantation's first hole, Matt, or you'll perhaps walk off after hitting only a single shot! ;D
I always found the Kapalua Village course (Palmer/Seay) to be more challenging and think you would too but I believe they've messed it up some, eg the 18th is now a tame par 3 I think.
Matt, knowing your game and predilections as I do, I think you'd enjoy the short trip from Lahaina to Lanai to the Manele Bay Hotel (take your wife along and have her do a spa/pool day there) to play Nicklaus's Challenge at Manele. Some decent par 4s, a couple of cool over-ocean carries and a fun day trip.
Happy Holidays,
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As an FYI -- here's the latest GW listing for Hawaii ...
1). Prince Course, #33 overall best modern
2). Kapalua (Plantation) #44 overall best modern
3). Mauna Kea, #69 overall best modern
4). Challenge at Manele Bay, #79 overall best modern
5). Kauai Lagoon
5). Poipu Bay
7). Koolau
8). Dunes at Maui Lani
9). Wailea GC
10). Makena (North)
Just a quick question -- how much different is Hawaii than Florida for quality golf architecture? I don't doubt Hawaii isn't dead flat like Florida but does it offer more of quality golf or is it as Todd E describes -- fun stuff & nothing more?
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Just a quick question -- how much different is Hawaii than Florida for quality golf architecture?
This is an interesting question and the more I thought about it, the fewer quality courses I could think of. I'm guessing here but quality bar has been raised very slowly. It all began with the two Raynor courses and they don't really have any Raynor left and are not that interesting.
Mauna Kea (1965) was really the first resort course capable of hosting world class players. The Prince (1990) and Plantation brought the quality notch up then the two courses on Lanai followed. Koolau was always a freak show. The Dyes tried to bring some quality yet those courses never really became appreciated. Royal Kunia and Nanea are a cut above.
Its an interesting history although quality is looking up especially on the Big Island. Tom Doak may have a project on Kona and I believe Fazio is also building on the Big Island.
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Wailea Blue Course -- Built in the late 1960s -- Arthur Jack Snyder -- very classic and open with interesting croppings of lava and graceful fairways.
Volcano G & CC -- Out of the way and back in time -- a classic course with two very different nines
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I will second (or third?) the vote for Mid-Pac CC on Oahu...out of the way location, and just a ncie "old" Hawaiian country club setting. Enjoyed my round there very much.
My recollections of the Prince course on Kauaii are similar to those above...played it years ago before my true architectural eyes were opened, but it is a fun place to play no matter what else is said here...and watch out for that opening hole!!! :o
Kapalua Plantation is a solid #1 choice for Maui. I also played Makena North which was a good test of golf and some great views...I also hear the Wailea complex offers a nice assortment of courses. The Huckster might be able to chime on on that one.
On the Big Island, the only decent place I played was Mauaa Kea. Although not the best golf on this planet, if you take it for it's historical significance, location and views it is also not a bad place to play either.
Hell...staring out my mother-in-law's window here in Cleveland watching the snow come down, I'd take just about ANYPLACE I could tee it up right now! :D ;) ;D
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Matt:
Response #2 (not much different than #1 but prompted by some other posts.
Oahu:
1) Oahu CC
2) Kaneohe Clipper (north shore through the Pali Tunnel)
3) Royal Kunia
4) Mid-Pac
Kauai:
Poipu Bay, Grove Farms, Kauai Lagoon and, lastly, The Prince. As JohnV said, too many lay-ups off the tee.
Big Island:
Mauna Kea has the long-standing rep because it was (allegedly) the first "really good" course in Hawai'i that was part of the first real luxury resort that had been built in the state since the 1920's. Although Oahu CC has always been good, it's private and it is true that the 2 best holes at MK are really, really good (#3 plus some par 3 on the back - #11? I think).
Other than that, the course and, to a lesser degree, the hotel have definitely been surpassed by at least 6 courses on the Big Island alone - all of which have been mentioned here, already.
Lanai:
Challenge at Manele is definitely worth a boat trip over from Maui for the day. Fabulous vistas, 4 or 5 spectacular holes - kind of like Pebble Beach in Hawai'i. The Greg Norman course at Koehle (spell?) Lodge (up the mountain) is only worth it if you're staying there.
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chipoat:
Thanks for the details / info.
I'm likely going to have 2-3 days in Oahu but only one complete day for golf. I'll have more time on the Big Island and hope to play a few of the ones already mentioned.
Like I asked before of Joel -- I wonder how much further along Hawaii is architecturally speaking than say a wasteland generaly like Florida? Minus the rolling terrain I just have to wonder if Hawaii has noticeably moved away from the
r-e-s-o-r-t-i-s-h golf that domintes the landscape? I gather from some of the posts made that there seems to be a concerted effort on some islands to do just that.
I wonder if other newer courses will follow that trend or simply be assembly line versions of what's there already?
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Interesting observations, Matt!!!
Thinking a bit about it now (in the light posed by your above question) I wonder the same thing. I've loved the golf I played in Hawaii...but I think it has been more out of "atmosphere and surroundings" than the actual architectural merits and/or strategic options presented.
Don't get me wrong...places like Kapalua and such offer PLENTY of the things this group here looks for...but on thw whole I think the courses may be somewhat lacking when it comes to the "fundamental aspects" of what many here consider to be good go0lf course design.
I do enjoy the various levels of elevation change, the greens are generally tough to read due to the mountains and oceans "pulling" on the golf ball...but I wond how well received these places wopuld be in picked up from the islands and plunked down somehere else in the lower 48? I know similar arguements have been made about Pebble Beach and the like, and I think the comparisons are quite similar. The setting, views, proximity to the ocean, etc. all lend to the "atmosphere" created at most Hawaiian courses which truly give then their character.
Just my $.02.........
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You can do 36 in one day on Oahu in February if you start early. OCC is 25 minutes from both Kaneohe and Royal Kunia but in opposite directions (with OCC in the middle).
Let me know if you want some thoughts on hotels and retaurants. Alan Wong's is as good a restaurant as any city in the world has to offer.
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I've lived in Hawaii since '65 and have played just about every course in the state.
Oahu:
Makaha West is the best. A mature Billy Bell course, it winds its way up an incredibly beautiful valley. Although some changes have been made in the original design, it remains the best pure test on the island.
Others? Mid-Pacific CC and Oahu CC
Maui:
Both McKenna courses (North and South) and Wailea Blue (haven't played Maui Dunes and haven't been to Kapalua in too many years).
Big Island:
Nothing beats Mauna Kea. Nothing. I also like Hapuna but I've heard they are now building homes along the course. Before it was a very pure, windswept experience - narrow fairways, blind shots and fun, fun, fun til her daddy took her T-Bird away. Good luck.
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I've lived in Hawaii since '65 and have played just about every course in the state.
Big Island:
Nothing beats Mauna Kea. Nothing.
Phil:
You need to get out of the 1965 time lock. I guess Mauna Kea is OK if you like flat greens that are stimped at 4, a billy goat back nine with cart paths and expensive homes everywhere, one hole (the 3rd) that is very pretty and makes for great photos but virtually unplayable for everyone. Add in some unpleasant Hawaiians in the pro shop that make minumum wage and have attitude and one of the most expensive green fees on Hawaii. I see virtually no other qualities in Mauna Kea, perhaps you could enlighten me?
As for the other courses on the Big Island, what are your thoughts on Nanea and Hokulia.
I'm also interested on how you rate Royal Kunia vs. Makaha West on Oahu?
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Joel,
What's wrong with 1965? After all, in a mere 40 years GCA-ers will revere anything remotely connected with this era.
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Matt -
I just came across this ARTICLE (http://www.golfdigest.com/newsandtour/index.ssf?/newsandtour/gw20031003hawaii.html) on golf digest. Haven't read it, but thought i'd offer it in any event.
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SPDB:
Many thanks -- I had the article forwarded to me a few days ago.
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Joel,
What's wrong with 1965? After all, in a mere 40 years GCA-ers will revere anything remotely connected with this era.
Forrest, I highly doubt that. In fact, I'll stake my inheritance on it!
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Matt,
The quality of courses is generally improving from an architectural standpoint. However, the resort/CCFAD price structure makes most of the courses seem like a rip off. I've driven by courses on the Big Island that looked intriguing, but then I go into the pro shop and see the green fee is north of $150, when it is probably worth paying $50 to play. The locals don't complain because at many courses they get a resident rate which is substantially cheaper. I have a friend who maintains a Hawaii drivers license just for that reason. The selection of good courses in Hawaii with reasonable green fees is quite limited. Thus every trip to Hawaii entails sitting through a condo presentation for the complimentary rounds of golf. :P
I'll be on the Big Island in April so I look forward to your feedback of what you play there. Have a great trip!
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... Kahuku GC on Oahu...
(http://images.mysticcolorlab.com/33982%3A3923232%7Ffp58%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D933%3D%3C%3B%3A%3DXROQDF%3E2323499%3B48%3B7%3Aot1lsi)
I'm feelin' smarterer now that I can put perty pichers up here.
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Matt. I know you said only Hawaii (Big Island), Maui and Oahu, but as other have suggested I recommend you take the small fairy from from Lahaina in Maui over to Lanai and play the courses over there. You really should play The Challenge at Manele Bay - Gates got married on the course!
The Plantation course is a must because of the PGA event held there. It's also an experience to play golf over such an elevation change. Forget about the Kaanapali courses - flat florida golf.
I also think you should play Mauna Kea on the big island. I enjoy it and it is the one that started it all over there.
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Many thanks to all those who have made suggestions. I have an interesting mixture of golf courses scheduled for the three islands I will visit -- Oahu, Big Island and Maui.
During my visit I'll provide updated commentary on the ones I do in fact play.
I have to watch myself because my wife and other couple I;m with are not into G-O-L-F like yours truly. ;D
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I've played most of the courses on Maui, so I can speak a bit intelligently about this subject. The Plantation course is probably the funnest golf course I have ever played! Not only is the scenery and terrain over which the course is built absoutely spectacular; but the course itself is a total blast to play! I can't think of another course that was built to fit the local environment (ie wind) better. It may not be an exacting test of golf when you're setting up to drive on those downhill/cross wind holes with the 80-yard wide fairways; but who the hell cares! Talk about "grip it and rip it". Even I can drive the ball 350-yards on some of those holes! :D
I know it's pretty expensive, but I truly think it's worth it! It's almost worth it just for the cart drive from the 5th green to the 6th tee! :o
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8)
Surprized no one has mentioned Turtle Bay on NE shore of Oahu??
Matt, make sure you do the polynesian Cultural Center and go al the way on the President's or what-ever they call it now tickets.. Nothing like having the Maori warrior in your face!
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The most interesting aspect to me will be to see if Hawaiian golf a bit more architecturally sophisticated or is it simply a cut and paste of all the stuff I thoroughly enjoy in Florida. ::)
The reaction I have received from a few folks is that much of Hawaiian golf is nothing more than wonderful vistas but low level design stuff. I'm playing a few of the newer courses and it will be fun to see how the two -- those that came earlier and those most recent -- compare.
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Matt, I very much look forward to your thoughts on Hawaii golf. I loved it because i was on my honeymoon, relaxed, and enjoyed the spectacualr views. Any time i started to ask my self if these were truly great courses or just fun eye candy, i put the thoughts out of my mind and just enjoyed it. Please keep us updated.
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Had the pleasure in playing the Robin Nelson designed called Royal Kunia Golf Club the other day.
The course is located on very interesting rolling property and provides some wonderful views of the greater Honolulu area.
How good is the course? Well, the 7,007 yard layout (CR of 73.5 and Slope of 132) is certainly beyond the likes of the repetitive "resort" type courses one generally finds in Florida.
The putting surfaces were not as good as they need (conditioning wise) but the style and variety of the holes is certainly beyond the likes of just pedestrian type golf.
Located about 45 minutes from Waikiki the course does require the player to move the ball both ways off the tee and there's enough elasticity to test the better player while permitting the higher handicap player to keep moving.
Royal Kunia is not to be confused with a masterpiece of design like Black Mesa in NM but it has enough elements and shotmaking qualities worthy of visit when one comes to Oahu IMHO. On the Doak scale I would give it a minimum of 4.
Onward to the Big Island ...