Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Nicolas Joakimides on January 06, 2025, 09:23:55 AM
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hello,
I am really interested in golf holes with barns , wall ,roads, or any other construction that are in play !
Do you know any other than the one I know : St Andrews, Prestwick, North Berwick, Renaissance (Scotland) Anahita (Mauritius) and Teelal, (Morocco).
I would love pictures as well !
Many thanks
https://www.off-the-beaten-track-golf-design.com/
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Dunbar Golf Club in Dunbar, Scotland has numerous walls and a few buildings in play on several holes.
The rock wall you walk through on the 4th hole is most certainly in play, then there is a dividing wall all the way down the right side for most of the rest of the front nine. There is a small shed that comes into play on the 8th and again on the back nine. The rock wall also comes back into play on the 18th. I uploaded a few photos of the course here: https://imgur.com/gallery/dunbar-golf-club-7jmEAsL (https://imgur.com/gallery/dunbar-golf-club-7jmEAsL)
5th
(https://imgur.com/Yt1Q5pM.jpeg)
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It's not uncommon in the UK to play accross a road, even famous courses like St Georges Hill retain them - expensive cars there.
The one that surprised me was on Crail's Craighead. There's a road crossing which is elevated about 8'(guesstimate) and the ground on the approach rises abruptly; meaning its a vertical barrier or obstable that must be carried. From memory the other side slopes away. Never seen that before.
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It’s not as small a club as you think. Five of the top ten courses in the world hit over a public road:
St Andrews 1 & 18
Cypress Point 1
Pebble Beach 16
National 8 & 11
Shinnecock 12 & 13
(Plus the driveway at Pine Valley)
Mid Ocean leads the way among top courses with four road crossings.
Buildings are more rare but there are still a lot of them.
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Tony
From memory it's a scheduled monument so couldn't be removed.
Niall
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Fortrose & Rosemarkie G.C., in Scotland, 5th hole. Short par 3 (133 yds, 122 yds, & 107 yds) requires a tee shot over an active road (images below). This is one of my favorite courses in Scotland.
(https://i.imgur.com/lCFlc2i.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/JUNfwSv.png)
Royal Dornoch 1st hole. Tee shot over Golf Rd. (image below)
(https://i.imgur.com/WCyYk7H.png)
Carmel Valley Ranch
1st & 5th holes, road in front of tee boxes.
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Tony
From memory it's a scheduled monument so couldn't be removed.
Niall
And it is played over on the 11th, 14th and 15th. The decision as to whether to lay up short or try to carry it needs to be made on both 11 and 15 and in both cases laying up leave a blind mid-iron approach, whilst carrying it leaves a short approach with a wedge. There's also a wall along and close to the left of the 11th green.
During BUDA at least one of my opponents (can't remember who, also had a ball lying up against the wall running down and close to the left of the 13th green. The wall at the back (and to the left) of 10 green can also often be in play. As can the wall behind the 1st green, and on the left of the 6th fairway.
I've never seen the wall behind 17 in play but imagine it could be.
The old lifeboat house to the left of the green on the 1st on Balcomie can also be in play and the perimeter wall on the right of 7, 8 and 9.
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The stone wall that runs the length of the 12th hole on the right side at Keney Park GC does not afford the golfer relief as it defines the course boundary with the opposite side being OB. It’s a great golf metaphor as the other side contains a cemetery and if you hit it there “you are dead.” Additionally the clubhouse is behind the ninth green and if your ball is close enough it requires a carom shot off the brick exterior to get back on the green.
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Galen Hall’s 12th has a barn adjacent to the green.
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I can think of at least two Courses where a Ha-ha comes into play: Dalmahoy, Close House. There’s probably dozens more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-ha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-ha)
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Obstacle golf. Walls, fences, hedges, roads, buildings etc. Splendid.
Not so good/acceptable given modern era balls and clubs but using retro clubs and/or a rolled-back ball, well that would be yippee time!
Just need some grazing livestock and it would be near perfect!!! :) :)
Atb
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Six at Baltimore CC is known as the barn hole. It is a dogleg left par five.
The first hole at Cypress requires a drive over 17 mile drive.
17 at Westward Ho! demands a thrid shot over a road.
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Fenwick Golf Course, a nine-holer in Old Saybrook CT, has a church in the right rough on the par 4 first hole. Not ruins or abandoned. Last time I was there, it was the primary place of worship for the citizens of the village and conducted a full calendar of church activities.
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I can think of at least two Courses where a Ha-ha comes into play: Dalmahoy, Close House. There’s probably dozens more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-ha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-ha)
There's a Ha-Ha at one of the Matfen Hall courses.
18 at Ganton plays over a road. There's a (quite busy) road to be carried at Berkhamsted. The railway is in play on 18 (? - I played in a shotgun start so am slightly confused as to numbering) at Royal Adelaide. There's a road (of sorts) in play on the 8th at Elie.
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The 6th hole at the Royal Colombo Golf Club in Sri Lanka has an active commuter rail line passing between the fairway & green. In fact, they’re planning to make it double wide.
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Nicolas
In terms of Roads this extensive thread may help:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40740.0.html
Over to the group for Walls & Structures...
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Lake Chabot GC delights and/or terrifies people coming to the course for the first time, as you need to enter on this road:
(https://i.imgur.com/toCXpJB.png)
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I am sure there is a wall under turf on St Enodoc’s 14th.
Kilspindie has a few holes with walls.
Anstruther has a few holes with buildings in play.
Ciao
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Lake Chabot GC delights and/or terrifies people coming to the course for the first time, as you need to enter on this road:
Misread this and thought it was Lake ChatBot! ::)
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[quote author=Sean_A link=topic=73495.msg1763407#msg1763407 date=1736196283]
I am sure there is a wall under turf on St Enodoc 14th.
Rock wall at right side and rear with infill.
If you recall the 6th tee at Machynlleth it’s not dissimilar. Rock wall at front and right side with infill behind (fair chance mostly rock and rubble with layer of soil and turf on top). The upper level 1st tee at Kington is similar too.
Easy and strength of construction I image not too different in many ways to what modern era garden feature builders are constructing.
Atb
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The 18th century fort left of Royal Jersey's 17th fairway is very cool as are the temples at Delhi Golf Club
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I was going to mention Royal Jersey too, though in my mind the fort (which dates from the Napoleonic wars) is a far bigger issue off the first tee. The opening drive requires you to hit between the fort and the beach. To make it even scarier, the beach is several feet below the level of the fairway, because of a sea wall constructed by the occupying Germans during WW2 to deter any invasion attempt. It's a terrifying shot for the first of the day.
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I was going to mention Royal Jersey too, though in my mind the fort (which dates from the Napoleonic wars) is a far bigger issue off the first tee. The opening drive requires you to hit between the fort and the beach. To make it even scarier, the beach is several feet below the level of the fairway, because of a sea wall constructed by the occupying Germans during WW2 to deter any invasion attempt. It's a terrifying shot for the first of the day.
Nice example Royal Jersey. I go along with Adams suggestion that it’s more relevant on the first hole.
On the opposite side of the first fairway to the Napoleonic Fort immediately adjacent to the sea defence wall are additionally a couple of WW2 German concrete gun emplacements. One is not far past the Napoleonic Fort making the tee shot even more terrifying especially in a left to right wind. Terrific hole.
Royal Guernsey also has fortification towers on the course. Felixstowe Ferry too. I’m sure there are many others. I believe Royal Malta plays in, around and over some old military fortifications. The British armed forces like their golf and many a base had a golf course of some kind on site. I recall playing shots over the obstacle training features at a then army course in Malaysia. Aren’t there some holes next to the DMZ between South and North Korea?
Atb
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I was going to mention Royal Jersey too, though in my mind the fort (which dates from the Napoleonic wars) is a far bigger issue off the first tee. The opening drive requires you to hit between the fort and the beach. To make it even scarier, the beach is several feet below the level of the fairway, because of a sea wall constructed by the occupying Germans during WW2 to deter any invasion attempt. It's a terrifying shot for the first of the day.
Nice example Royal Jersey. I go along with Adams suggestion that it’s more relevant on the first hole.
On the opposite side of the first fairway to the Napoleonic Fort immediately adjacent to the sea defence wall are additionally a couple of WW2 German concrete gun emplacements. One is not far past the Napoleonic Fort making the tee shot even more terrifying especially in a left to right wind. Terrific hole.
Royal Guernsey also has fortification towers on the course. Felixstowe Ferry too. I’m sure there are many others. I believe Royal Malta plays in, around and over some old military fortifications. The British armed forces like their golf and many a base had a golf course of some kind on site. I recall playing shots over the obstacle training features at a then army course in Malaysia. Aren’t there some holes next to the DMZ between South and North Korea?
Atb
Using Google Earth I just measured the gap between Fort Henry and the seawall... just a hair under 45 yards.
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Obstacle golf. Walls, fences, hedges, roads, buildings etc. Splendid.
Not so good/acceptable given modern era balls and clubs but using retro clubs and/or a rolled-back ball, well that would be yippee time!
Just need some grazing livestock and it would be near perfect!!! :) :)
Atb
David
I think what you really need is a time machine to take you back to the 1800's.
Niall
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Moray Old has airplane landing lights on a couple of holes and then there are numerous courses with overhead powerlines in play.
Niall
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The 12th at Galen Hall is a par five where a large barn comes into play just off the green. A strong left to right cant of the land means wayward second (or third) shots can be behind the barn, leaving an interesting or impossible approach.
This photo from the Bausch Collection. Joe once bet us he could make par by caroming a shot off the barn and amazingly he pulled it off!
(https://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/GalenHall_2023/mediafiles/l60.jpg)
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Thanks for all these informations and especially the pictures !
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I am sure there is a wall under turf on St Enodoc’s 14th.
Kilspindie has a few holes with walls.
Anstruther has a few holes with buildings in play.
Ciao
Kilspindies 17th is great. On the direct line much of the wall is half buried, so in some places you can run a ball over, with the green right behind; others you are snookered.
Also theres a wall behind the green on Lahinch's famous blind Klondyke. The landing area short of the green is downhill (IIRC) and the wind is often at your back. Despite a large green the section of wall immediately behind it is also 'buried' and an overenthusiastic approach can run up this bit and finish OOB on the road. The mounding is not present either side of the green.
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A couple of Walls:
Loch Lomond (2nd Hole)
Several at Marion GC, Massachusetts
Buildings:
Several courses have concrete Gun Enplacements/Pill Boxes and the like:
Dunstanburgh Castle
Omaha Beach (if I recall) possibly also Belle Dune?
Burnham & Berrow (Channel)
and many more...on the Coasts of both UK & France, and possibly Northern Europe as well...
There was once a course at Camber Castle (near Rye) designed by James Braid that had 5x greens in very close proximity to a Castle built by Henry VIII. It closed not long after WWII.
See here for photos...a fascinating routing:
https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/south-east/sussex/836-sus-camber-castle-golf-club-winchelsea?highlight=WyJjYW1iZXIiLCJjYXN0bGUiLCJjYW1iZXIgY2FzdGxlIl0= (https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/south-east/sussex/836-sus-camber-castle-golf-club-winchelsea?highlight=WyJjYW1iZXIiLCJjYXN0bGUiLCJjYW1iZXIgY2FzdGxlIl0=)
Also and lastly, the course at Circolo Golf Venezia is built partially amongst the ramparts of a former Naval dockyard
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Thinking of Hawaii, Wailea Gold has some old stone walls in play.
Also, there is a course outside of DC with an old shed in play. Seems like an old moonshine house, and the name refers to it, but I can’t think of it.
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There is a WWII bunker in play at Burnham’ 6th. A few more are OoB that were uncovered recently. There is also one at Deal in play.
The road on Seacroft’s 8th is used extremely well.
Ciao
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The new Old Petty course at Cabot Highlands has Castle Stuart very much in the line of play on the 3rd hole. I hope they have strong glass in the windows.
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I almost forgot the Roman(ish!) temple at Haddington…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54253170012_54f05a8b5f_w.jpg)
;D
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The new Old Petty course at Cabot Highlands has Castle Stuart very much in the line of play on the 3rd hole. I hope they have strong glass in the windows.
I think I read that there’ll be a building in play very close to one of the greens as well.
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The new Old Petty course at Cabot Highlands has Castle Stuart very much in the line of play on the 3rd hole. I hope they have strong glass in the windows.
I think I read that there’ll be a building in play very close to one of the greens as well.
Yes, but the latter is an old farm building -- a "bothy" in local parlance. They might turn it into a halfway house of sorts [even though it's after the 5th hole], but that would require some serious reconstruction / stabilizing.
Personally, I've not thought that the castle will be in play as much as other visitors have remarked on it . . . I would have thought people would steer clear out of respect! But calling the hole a long par-3 instead of a short 4 [as we originally suggested] probably does make more people take a line closer to the corner.
Luckily, there is no one in the castle much these days.
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The Rochford Hundred course right next to the Southend airport had bunkers and bomb craters when I played it in the 60s. I assume they are still there.
The road pictured in a previous post at Dornoch can also come into play on the 18th if you hit it over the green.
Also, there is a road that is “paved” with plastic matting that crosses the 12th fairway and is right in the drive zone for short to medium hitters.
The Struie has a road which crosses 3, 4, 16 and 17. Also one that parallels 15 and has rough on both sides and then runs between 5 & 7.
Golspie has a road crossing the 8th fairway just short of the green
Tain has one which crosses 1 and 18
There is an old barn on one hole on Hamilton Farms in NJ.
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The 12th at Galen Hall is a par five where a large barn comes into play just off the green. A strong left to right cant of the land means wayward second (or third) shots can be behind the barn, leaving an interesting or impossible approach.
This photo from the Bausch Collection. Joe once bet us he could make par by caroming a shot off the barn and amazingly he pulled it off!
(https://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/GalenHall_2023/mediafiles/l60.jpg)
Mike, please tell me Joe used his putter for the bank shot.
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The 9th hole at Westchester CC's South Course has a barn in the right rough. It's definitely in play if hit your tee shot right.
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If it’s roads, walls, fences, ditches, beaches, sea defences, houses, caravans, railway tracks you want then head to Borth & Ynyslas in Wales and you’ll get them all - see - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ogVKIVlSLsc&pp=ygUKQm9ydGggZ29sZg%3D%3D (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ogVKIVlSLsc&pp=ygUKQm9ydGggZ29sZg%3D%3D)
You’ll also get interesting, challenging links golf in a raw, rural and rustic landscape as well.
Atb
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6 at Orinda plays over Miner Road and at a diagonal, making for one of the best and most strategic tee shots on the course. You really need to cut that corner a bit to be able to get over the ridge on the second shot to have a view of the green for the 3rd. Great, simple hole.
Sean mentioned Anstruther's buildings, but the wall attached to one at the the 4th is brilliant IMO. If you pull a shot left or bail out away from the right side cliffs and into the 3rd fairway on the left, you have to deal with that carrying that wall and the drop-off into the sea behind. The angle is only made worse the longer your tee shot.
Just up the rail line from Prestwick, the 4th at Irvine Bogside is a short par 4 with a wall hard against the green, but this time on the left (as opposed to 1 at Prestwick). It's not as strategic a hole as that, but it's still pretty cool with how tight the wall/OB/railway is.
Less a "wall" as we know it, but the 13th at Minchinhampton Old plays diagonally (and brilliantly) over an historic "bulwark," which is a sort of large, ancient, earthen fortification wall.
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Extraordinary that none of us had remembered the wall on the inside of the dogleg on the 6th at Muirfield. Very definitely in play.
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There's a wall that has to be carried on the downhill par 3 3rd at Kinghorn. The green is only just over it, so very much in play.
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6 at Orinda plays over Miner Road and at a diagonal, making for one of the best and most strategic tee shots on the course. You really need to cut that corner a bit to be able to get over the ridge on the second shot to have a view of the green for the 3rd. Great, simple hole.
Sean mentioned Anstruther's buildings, but the wall attached to one at the the 4th is brilliant IMO. If you pull a shot left or bail out away from the right side cliffs and into the 3rd fairway on the left, you have to deal with that carrying that wall and the drop-off into the sea behind. The angle is only made worse the longer your tee shot.
Just up the rail line from Prestwick, the 4th at Irvine Bogside is a short par 4 with a wall hard against the green, but this time on the left (as opposed to 1 at Prestwick). It's not as strategic a hole as that, but it's still pretty cool with how tight the wall/OB/railway is.
Less a "wall" as we know it, but the 13th at Minchinhampton Old plays diagonally (and brilliantly) over an historic "bulwark," which is a sort of large, ancient, earthen fortification wall.
In the same vein as 13 Minch Old, 13 at Cleeve Hill uses the old hill fort ditch and bulwark brilliantly. Still one of the most incredible green sites I have seen.
Ciao
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Ardglass Golf Club in NI has an old house/building hard by the #7 green that is definitely in play. There is also a building in the middle of the 16th fairway.
https://www.ardglassgolfclub.com/golf-course/
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Extraordinary that none of us had remembered the wall on the inside of the dogleg on the 6th at Muirfield. Very definitely in play.
The boundary wall on the 9th also, although mowing regimes have deterred the LH route (for the second, that brings the wall even more into play) over the years.
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There was once a course at Camber Castle (near Rye) designed by James Braid that had 5x greens in very close proximity to a Castle built by Henry VIII. It closed not long after WWII.
See here for photos...a fascinating routing:
https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/south-east/sussex/836-sus-camber-castle-golf-club-winchelsea?highlight=WyJjYW1iZXIiLCJjYXN0bGUiLCJjYW1iZXIgY2FzdGxlIl0= (https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/south-east/sussex/836-sus-camber-castle-golf-club-winchelsea?highlight=WyJjYW1iZXIiLCJjYXN0bGUiLCJjYW1iZXIgY2FzdGxlIl0=)
OT: Simon, in one of the photos of “Personalities” is the painter Oswald Moser?
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Six at Baltimore CC is known as the barn hole. It is a dogleg left par five.
The first hole at Cypress requires a drive over 17 mile drive.
17 at Westward Ho! demands a thrid shot over a road.
Tommy,
Baltimore CC was the first course that came to mind for me. I really like that hole.
Tim
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There was once a course at Camber Castle (near Rye) designed by James Braid that had 5x greens in very close proximity to a Castle built by Henry VIII. It closed not long after WWII.
See here for photos...a fascinating routing:
https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/south-east/sussex/836-sus-camber-castle-golf-club-winchelsea?highlight=WyJjYW1iZXIiLCJjYXN0bGUiLCJjYW1iZXIgY2FzdGxlIl0= (https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/south-east/sussex/836-sus-camber-castle-golf-club-winchelsea?highlight=WyJjYW1iZXIiLCJjYXN0bGUiLCJjYW1iZXIgY2FzdGxlIl0=)
OT: Simon, in one of the photos of “Personalities” is the painter Oswald Moser?
Not to be confused with Oswald Mosley (a far less creative and altogether darker character)
I wasn't aware of Moser, until now, the only "Moser" I knew by name was the talented Angela "of this parish" ;-)
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Three that I have played that have structures but have not been mentioned. Encountered too many walls and roads to mention
Langdon Farms (OR) has a barn on the 8th hole. Fossil Trace (CO) has a chimney in the 1st fairway. Whiskey Run (MD?) has a stone farmhouse in the middle of 18.
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OT: Simon, in one of the photos of “Personalities” is the painter Oswald Moser?
Not to be confused with Oswald Mosley (a far less creative and altogether darker character)
I wasn't aware of Moser, until now, the only "Moser" I knew by name was the talented Angela "of this parish" ;-)
Mosley was my first thought. I like what I see of Moser's work. If he played golf or painted it, so much the better.
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Extraordinary that none of us had remembered the wall on the inside of the dogleg on the 6th at Muirfield. Very definitely in play.
The boundary wall on the 9th also, although mowing regimes have deterred the LH route (for the second, that brings the wall even more into play) over the years.
Indeed. And the wall on the left of the 2nd green can be in play quite easily.