Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Doug Wright on August 22, 2023, 04:31:48 PM
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Several of us GCAers will be attending the Walker Cup weekend after next. We've set up a WhatsApp group to coordinate and plan, including plans for a toast to our departed GCA friend Bill McBride at the Dunvegan. If you're attending and haven't joined our group please let me know.
Also, what are the current conditions there at the Old Course? In any case they're certainly very different from the experiences of several USA players at Cherry Hills this past week. Regardless, I'm looking forward to see how they make their way around this unique venue.
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Doug I will be here with Whitty and His Arbleness
At Royal Aberdeen Jim Holgrieve toured our lads around courses like Gleaneagles. The outward nine was downwind those days and Jordan Spieth and the others gained an advantage they squandered when coming home. Every yank flighted their ball into the wind exactly as they had on the outward nine and never adjusted. The GBI guys adapted and slowly ate into their leads to prevail. I was astounded at the lack of preperation for teenagers who had never played links golf. Nigel Edwards did a similar routine at NGLA playing parkland American course and got trounced. Let us hope whoever is coach is preparing these fine players properly
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Apparently the Walker Cup will not be televised in North America. Anyone know if it will be streaming on Youtube or something similar?
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Played it two weeks ago ;D . Turf was fantastic tee to green. Greens probably a little slower and more receptive than you'll see them. Gorse is prickly. Bunkers are troublesome. If anybody finds themselves sleeping on the ground, stuffing headcovers with gloves and towels makes a reasonable pillow.
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Apparently the Walker Cup will not be televised in North America. Anyone know if it will be streaming on Youtube or something similar?
The Golf Channel is televising the Walker Cup live on Sat and Sunday according to my TV schedule.
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Played it two weeks ago ;D . Turf was fantastic tee to green. Greens probably a little slower and more receptive than you'll see them. Gorse is prickly. Bunkers are troublesome. If anybody finds themselves sleeping on the ground, stuffing headcovers with gloves and towels makes a reasonable pillow.
It's in good shape but we've had a very, very wet July and although August has been better, it has remained cooler and wetter than usual. The course is soft by normal standards.
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Apparently the Walker Cup will not be televised in North America. Anyone know if it will be streaming on Youtube or something similar?
I saw a tweet claiming it will be televised between 8am - 2pm on Saturday and Sunday on Golf Channel.
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The USGA website shows TBD (to be determined) regarding the broadcast schedule for the Walker Cup.
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/championships/2023/2023-walker-cup-fast-facts-st-andrews-scotland.html
I could find nothing online about the Golf Channel broadcasting it. If anyone has a link with information, please post it.
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Will be over for both days at W Cup and here is a small article I did on a W Cupper from the 90s, published by the Cookie Jar.
https://cookiejargolf.com/the-49th-walker-cup-the-barclays/ (https://cookiejargolf.com/the-49th-walker-cup-the-barclays/)
Hope to see some of you next weekend,
Darragh
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My first ever contact with the world of GCA was I think at the Walker Cup of 2007 at RCD, but sadly I can't make it this year: I was in St Andrews last week and played TOC and will be there again in late-September but three trips in six weeks is pushing it! The Old Course last week was as Jason and Mark describe, and the greens will (I suspect) be a bit slower than some of the US team are used to. As ever a huge amount will depend on the weather.
In terms of WAGR etc the GB&I team is massively up against it. But there is at least one Welshman (and a Welsh Captain of the R&A, who was himself a winning Walker Cup captain in 1995) in the side, to help spur them on. 1938 and 1971 saw British wins at St Andrews - interestingly the last, 1975 match was switched to St Andrews from RCD quite late on, a consequence of The Troubles in Northern Ireland.
Anyway vv sorry to miss you all, and enjoy!
Richard
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Apparently the Walker Cup will not be televised in North America. Anyone know if it will be streaming on Youtube or something similar?
I saw a tweet claiming it will be televised between 8am - 2pm on Saturday and Sunday on Golf Channel.
On the Golf Channel I see the Euro Tour Czech Masters from about 6-11am both days, some other shows like Golf Central, and then the Tour Championship starting at 1 on Saturday and Noon on Sunday. I was looking at the wrong week. It will be on the Golf Channel!
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If anyone is heading to the Highlands before or after their time in St. Andrews, please let me know. I will be in Dornoch 25 August to 15 September.
Message me here or email me at tcmnav@aol.com
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I will be in St. Andrews and looking forward to the matches!
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Deleted
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Peacock is covering Days 1 and 3.
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Apparently the Walker Cup will not be televised in North America. Anyone know if it will be streaming on Youtube or something similar?
The Golf Channel is televising the Walker Cup live on Sat and Sunday according to my TV schedule.
My Direct TV search shows the Walker Cup televised on The Golf Channel, Sat. SEPT 2 5:30 am PT to 11 am
And Sunday Sept 3 5am to 11 am PT.
I am recording it.
8)
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The USGA Championship Site has updated and posted for Golf Channel on Saturday and Sunday (it's a two day competition).
https://championships.usga.org/walkercup/2023/2023-walker-cup-match--viewing-schedule.html (https://championships.usga.org/walkercup/2023/2023-walker-cup-match--viewing-schedule.html)
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Very jealous of this trip! Should be fantastic. Hoping the Walker Cup continues to grow in popularity, especially as a TV product. Glad to see Golf Channel has added this.
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Will be exciting . I know they have a lot of good golfers on the US team just don’t know how they didn’t pick the finalist at US Am Neal Shipley . Great golfer with big personality and fan fav
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I don’t think I can be much bothered with faffing about St Andrews for the tourney, but if anyone coming in to Fife for it wants to play at Ladybank, please drop me a PM.
I had hoped Arbs and his boys might have been able to join me, but that’s looking unlikely.
Cheers,
F.
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I don’t think I can be much bothered with faffing about St Andrews for the tourney, but if anyone coming in to Fife for it wants to play at Ladybank, please drop me a PM.
I had hoped Arbs and his boys might have been able to join me, but that’s looking unlikely.
Cheers,
F.
My strongest memory of Ladybank was starting to walk into the clubhouse wearing spiked shoes (this was 1992). I got an incredibly strange look from someone inside and came to my senses before actually marking up the floor.
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Ward I think you might have posted a kind note on the wrong thread!
Many thanks anyway and have a fab time - hard not to in St Andrews.
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https://www.randa.org/championships/the-walker-cup-broadcast-information
Live coverage of the 49th Walker Cup on Saturday 2 and Sunday 3 September is available on Sky Sports Golf (GB&I), Golf Channel (USA) and The Walker Cup website.
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WC website here:
https://www.randa.org/championships/walker-cup
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Not much Walker Cup chat then?
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I spent much of yesterday playing ‘Spot the GCAer’ on the telly.
F.
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Stuck at home recovering from Covid, I watched every minute.
Although a patriotic Yank, I found myself rooting for the GBI in various matches. They obviously looked more comfortable on a links course, yet they also seemed to mostly outwit our boys (save for Hagestad and maybe Suratt) in and around the greens. It almost seemed as if the US team wasn't well-prepared for the nuances of the Auld Sod. Anyone else feel similarly? As a fan of the Old Course above all, it was easy to pull for the most thoughtfully-played and most strategic shotmaking.
I'd like to see the US team emerge the victors, so long as the matches are interesting and competitive. I do admire the fighting spirit found amidst these young lads.
I also have to ask the penultimate question. Have the local caddies, as is the custom, pushed a few quid around on the outcomes? Did it not seem that most of the Americans missed their makable putts (<15') on bad lines (aka reads)?? Over the years of playing St. Andrews, I've had amazing caddies who can navigate every inch of the place, and plenty who care only about being paid, wagering amongst themselves and getting to the pub. In the spirit of Larry David....eh...just wondering?
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Peacock covered the afternoons. For me, the most enjoyable televised golf in a long while.
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I'm really enjoying all the ground level and close up camera shots that you don't see as much in the pro game. Gives a much better sense of all the undulations and tricky shots around the greens.
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I'm with you Kalen...I can see the movement in the fairways, and the elevation changes better. I find the typical shots from 200ft high cranes paint a flat and boring landscape.
The greenness of the course helps as well.
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I spent much of yesterday playing ‘Spot the GCAer’ on the telly.
F.
Marty - we missed you. It would have been great to have you and Nancy traipsing around with us. Sean, Ward and I had loads of fun. We met up at one time or another with Oliver Baker, David McIntosh, Lynn Shackelford, Bill & Leslie Gayne, Doug Wright, JJ Shanley Michael Christensen and his mate Brian, and John VanderBort… among others. You would have had a great time!
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I spent much of yesterday playing ‘Spot the GCAer’ on the telly.
F.
Marty - we missed you. It would have been great to have you and Nancy traipsing around with us. Sean, Ward and I had loads of fun. We met up at one time or another with Oliver Baker, David McIntosh, Lynn Shackelford, Bill & Leslie Gayne, Doug Wright, JJ Shanley Michael Christensen and his mate Brian, and John VanderBort… among others. You would have had a great time!
Damn!
We did consider coming over yesterday, but decided against. The coverage on the R&A website was actually pretty good, so i just vegged out on the couch all day.
Hope you visited with Uncle Bill and had a wee dram with him.
F.
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Some reflections:
Nae wind Nae golf
Day 2 wind made for fun golf.
Green Complexes
The approaches and the putting surfaces were awesome to see in the bright sun.
Putting matters
#2 putting surface looks all world.
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Agree with Mike on 2 green. That was my first thought when I saw it in person for the first time a few weeks ago.
It's such a joy to see great players take on great courses. The Walker Cup has cemented itself as the event that serves up the best version of that. And it's a little extra great to watch it played at a place I visited so recently. If part of loving The Old Course is studying it, The Walker Cup is the second-best date we've been on.
The Old Course continues to shine a path forward in the face of bifurcation's struggles. Challenge the short game and course management, use a few pinched fairways to strongly recommend a few layups (and toss in some short 4s, so that a bomber who bitches sounds insane), and do this new thing where they rake the bunkers in ways designed to dial in the challenge. If we all lean in on that concept, we might be able to resuscitate furrowing!
The concession at 16 needs to get both those kids grounded.
For starters...
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I'm really enjoying all the ground level and close up camera shots that you don't see as much in the pro game. Gives a much better sense of all the undulations and tricky shots around the greens.
But everyone has moved to drones now . . .
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…and do this new thing where they rake the bunkers in ways designed to dial in the challenge.
Maybe instead of this new raking thing to dial in the challenge why not go back to the old thing, ie no raking? That would seem a way to dial in challenge and would do so in a no manpower needed way.
Atb
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We did consider coming over yesterday, but decided against. The coverage on the R&A website was actually pretty good, so i just vegged out on the couch all day.
Hope you visited with Uncle Bill and had a wee dram with him.
F.
We did drop in on Bill. I just uploaded a photo on the Memorial thread.
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TOC was in fantastic condition for this event. Absolutely beautiful links turf and greens. I'm still not crazy about the mowing lines as there are several bunkers now isolated in the rough (such as it is), but the course presented a fantastic playing surface.
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I was pleasantly surprised at the many times I saw both sides choose long putts over chip/flops and how masterfully they executed those shotsWhitty was trying to recall the source of the aphorism: " The amount of joy produced by a golf shot is directly proportional to the time the ball spends on the ground" when this happeed during our round on Gullane No 3.After watching Sean and Mike lob lofted clubs at the severely downhill 16th par three playing off the dominant ridge there I pulled my putter out, placed ball on tee , and with an only modestly long swing rolled the ball to within 5 feet from 169 yds. At least a 20 second golf shot.
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I was pleasantly surprised at the many times I saw both sides choose long putts over chip/flops and how masterfully they executed those shotsWhitty was trying to recall the source of the aphorism: " The amount of joy produced by a golf shot is directly proportional to the time the ball spends on the ground" when this happeed during our round on Gullane No 3.After watching Sean and Mike lob lofted clubs at the severely downhill 16th par three playing off the dominant ridge there I pulled my putter out, placed ball on tee , and with an only modestly long swing rolled the ball to within 5 feet from 169 yds. At least a 20 second golf shot.
I believe it was John Kirk who came up with that aphorism.
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Well with a few caveats for sure.
There is certainly no joy watching your thinned 3 iron worm burner roll out 120 yards, ending up in a bunker, instead of on the green. ;)
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Well with a few caveats for sure.
There is certainly no joy watching your thinned 3 iron worm burner roll out 120 yards, ending up in a bunker, instead of on the green. ;)
I’m sure the GB&I Walker Cupper whose tee shot on #1 kept rolling and rolling until it went into the Swilcan Burn had no joy either.
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I was pleasantly surprised at the many times I saw both sides choose long putts over chip/flops and how masterfully they executed those shotsWhitty was trying to recall the source of the aphorism: " The amount of joy produced by a golf shot is directly proportional to the time the ball spends on the ground" when this happeed during our round on Gullane No 3.After watching Sean and Mike lob lofted clubs at the severely downhill 16th par three playing off the dominant ridge there I pulled my putter out, placed ball on tee , and with an only modestly long swing rolled the ball to within 5 feet from 169 yds. At least a 20 second golf shot.
Rolled is a very loosely used term. Jumped, bounced and kareened is more like it.
Ciao
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Steve Lapper I’ve been a caddie for 7 years now including a season at St Andrews and can honestly say I’ve never seen or heard of betting on games by caddies. If it was once a custom it isn’t nowadays.
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I was pleasantly surprised at the many times I saw both sides choose long putts over chip/flops and how masterfully they executed those shots
Agree here Wardo. And also, I was impressed by the pitch shots we saw from the tight links turf as well. Even those shots require plenty of consideration of ground game on a links, and playing them creates these risk/reward-in-miniature conundrums where you might be able to safely putt to within 10 feet, but can go airborne to minimize the effect of a given mound or slope.
I guess the point is that there are REAL options around the greens, and also real challenge in executing any of the given options based on the architectural hurdles in your way as a player. And I think that contrasts with the average course I play in our dear Ohio Valley, where there might be a lot of short grass around a green, but it's often not quite tight enough to really judge a putt reliably and also watered heavily in the summer to a point where pitching without chunking is awfully difficult, and so the challenge becomes this irksome matter of navigating the conditions as opposed to the really interesting dilemma of "How do I navigate these humps and hollows and other obstacles in my way?" that you see at The Old Course. The question of "Can you pitch off this soft lie to this elevated target?" that our games get asked regularly at home just isn't as interesting as the question of "How will you navigate everything going on in between your ball and the hole to get it close?" that you get asked at The Old.
Another thought... probably unrelated: it was really impressive how long and straight these guys hit it on holes like 9, 12, and 18. Felt like I hardly ever saw a ball fail to land on the fairway at 12, even though the landing zone for these youths is about 17 yards wide. And yet, those long straight shots hit right at pins still give up a big degree of control. Elite players are really good at controlling what they can control - they don't flirt with hitting trees and taking horrid bounces or that kind of thing. But they WILL give up control if you present them with upside that looks easy to take advantage of. It may still not cost them a bogey, but it's fun to watch a guy get hit with a 90 foot putt that runs straight downhill for its final 20 feet because he banged one at the 12th green mindlessly and brought the risk of the shot getting away from him into play. It's a little depressing to see how easily these guys reach these holes sometimes, but it does result in them finding some awful spots to play from that they would likely never find if they played more conservatively.