Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Joel_Stewart on October 05, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
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One of the women's major championships, the ANA appears to be taking on a new sponsor Chevron. Chevron is committed to offering the largest purse on the LPGA tour but wants the tournament moved to Houston.
It's a devastating blow to the Palm Springs area but money talks.
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/10/05/exclusive-lpga-chevron-new-era-bigger-purse-new-date-changes-dinah-shore/
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Easier link:
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/10/05/exclusive-lpga-chevron-new-era-bigger-purse-new-date-changes-dinah-shore/
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Wow, I didn't expect this. If you have the right amount of zeros anything can change. One of the few traditions for the LPGA is changing. Even those who know nothing of women's golf see the winner jump in the lake each year. I don't see anything mentioned in regards to venue in Houston. Any insights?
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Wow, I didn't expect this. If you have the right amount of zeros anything can change. One of the few traditions for the LPGA is changing. Even those who know nothing of women's golf see the winner jump in the lake each year. I don't see anything mentioned in regards to venue in Houston. Any insights?
They've not decided on one yet.
The women will likely say all the right things about missing the stop and the tradition and the history, but I wonder how much they really care about that… in the face of the major purse increase. So long as conditions are good (and they may very well be top-notch at the new event and better than ever in CA), I suspect most will gladly take the pay raise.
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A point I missed which was on Twitter this morning is that Chevron wants to move it to Texas which has the craziest governor in the nation and just signed into law the most strict abortion laws in the country.
Hopefully some of the top LPGA players reject this move.
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Concerning Texas politics and contributions to primary sponsors of the new abortion law:
Companies like AT&T, Chevron and UnitedHealth donated over $100,000 each to the Texas lawmakers behind its new abortion law
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/companies-like-atandt-and-unitedhealth-donated-over-dollar100000-to-the-texas-lawmakers-behind-its-new-abortion-law/ar-AAO1XTc (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/companies-like-atandt-and-unitedhealth-donated-over-dollar100000-to-the-texas-lawmakers-behind-its-new-abortion-law/ar-AAO1XTc)
I wonder how 8000 Chevron employees are reacting to this, let alone the LPGA members.
For Lexi Thompson, the 2014 ANA champion, taking a leap into Poppie’s Pond with her family has been the highlight of her career. It’s a venue players have looked forward to for decades.
“The views are great, and as we said, the history, too,” said World No. 1 Nelly Korda last spring. “I’ve always said, it’s kind of like the Masters for us in women’s golf, so it’s definitely something you as a professional golfer, you want to win.
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If a move from Palm Springs occurs, I hope they don't make the mistake of using a retread venue such as Champions, Woodlands or any other former Houston Open sites. With the comparisons from players to the Masters, why not follow that path? I realize you can't create tradition with a first-time event, but I'd love to see them try to create an exclusive, permanent home for the event at Whispering Pines. The obvious drawback is the location 90 minutes from Houston, but countless events overcome such a barrier. Other than that, the club checks nearly every box I can think of:
1. Great golf course
2. Seasonally open with national membership
3. Expansive property for media, spectators, etc.
4. 33 on-site rooms in cottages - reserve them for current & past champions to have a pre-tournament on-site presence similar to Augusta (Champions Dinner, etc.)
5. Short course for Wednesday event
6. Let location enhance exclusivity (e.g. limited ticket sales)
7. Let the area grow up around the event. Women's golf isn't as demanding as men's in terms of staging events.
All other venues in Houston seem temporary and any sponsor is willing to sell out for next better deal. That's already happened with the LPGA Championship. Let them honor Dinah and her legacy the same way that Augusta does Bobby Jones.
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Phil,
I agree with your post in concept, but the current event and venue, already have those firmly established connections with Dinah Short going back nearly 50 years...its probably the closest thing in golf to a Bobby Jones/ANGC history. So I'm having difficulty seeing authenticity or a tie in otherwise with some course outside of Houston and Dinah.
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A point I missed which was on Twitter this morning is that Chevron wants to move it to Texas which has the craziest governor in the nation and just signed into law the most strict abortion laws in the country.
Hopefully some of the top LPGA players reject this move.
Glad we don’t go straight to politics in here, but a tour typically struggling to grow and find BIG sponsors likely appreciates the opportunity.
So, I suppose if your points are a big enough problem, the LPGA could just say no and not go there.
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[size=78%]I’m subconsciously thinking about sustaining what they have in Palm Springs, and I fear that any other Houston venue would not move the legacy forward.[/size]
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Beth Nichols chimes in without dealing with Texas politics:
It's sad to see the LPGA leave Mission Hills, but here's why it's ultimately a good thing
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/10/05/nichols-lpga-leave-mission-hills-ultimately-good-thing/ (https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/10/05/nichols-lpga-leave-mission-hills-ultimately-good-thing/)
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I really wish they would bring back the Virginia Slims. But oil is cool too.
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I think that it's a bit of a shame. It started as a golf tournament as turned into a Spring Break/ Mecca/ Women's music festival, etc. it's a scene like no other and is very unique. I think that it would have been good for the LPGA to keep that in tact.
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I distinctly remember a lady making a lengthy post about how the Dinah Shore was the number one lesbian sporting event of the year. I also remember JK,s response; “nothing better than a long winded lesbian”.
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I wonder if those that support the Dinah Shore move from Palm Springs to Houston also support the Premier Golf League concept. It's all about the money...right?
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I distinctly remember a lady making a lengthy post about how the Dinah Shore was the number one lesbian sporting event of the year. I also remember JK,s response; “nothing better than a long winded lesbian”.
Got to wonder if the LGBTQ community doesn't use this decision to boycott Chevron, the event and even the LPGA for not only moving the event but moving it to a state that is anti womens rights and anti same sex marriage. Is the LPGA trying to distance itself from it's once gay base?
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So a guy with the tagline ...I like beautiful women based on their availability...is critical of a company that is spending more money on women's golf as a sponsor than any before and bringing it to a city that did not vote (in majority) for the government he criticizes for being anti women. Remember, Trump was YOUR president too.
You think Chevron stole it away??? If so you have no clue of golf sponsorships in today's world.
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Since I made an issue of a recent and very different political post, I wish to restate my general objection to the politically divisive posts in this thread. A single post can be spectacularly successful at redirecting the energy of the conversation. After making a big fuss last week, I would be hypocritical to not mention this. I will focus on sports (and sometimes music) from now on.
Palm Springs is beautiful in March, but I'm the type of person who generally looks forward with optimism. Chevron and the Houston community will be eager to prove to the LPGA that they made a good choice.
Changing the subject dramatically, this Red Sox - Yankees game tonight is very exciting.
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Clearly the event needs to be held at Wolf Point.
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So a guy with the tagline ...I like beautiful women based on their availability...is critical of a company that is spending more money on women's golf as a sponsor than any before and bringing it to a city that did not vote (in majority) for the government he criticizes for being anti women. Remember, Trump was YOUR president too.
You think Chevron stole it away??? If so you have no clue of golf sponsorships in today's world.
Don't know what Trump or my tagline has to do with the issues in this thread but you seem to think that if a company spends enough money they can ignore women's and minority rights. Typical Republican. LOL
And comrade Trumpsky was never my president.
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You have no clue about my political affiliations. Take your complaints to the LPGA
No matter how much I may disagree with my states government, I reside here, and it is my government. Just as if you are an American citizen, he was your president. Attacking anyone who lives in a state that he carried is just lame. Millions of Texans didn’t vote for him or our current governor. Not every action needs to be viewed thru a left/right lens
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If anyone is interested in golf courses, I'm hearing Carlton Woods or Bluejack as a host site.
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Nobody yet has mentioned the hit this event took when Augusta National created an event to compete against it.
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Bluejack National has an austere, uncluttered look to it. Beautiful oak trees and few hazards. It would be a nice tribute for Tiger to have his design become a tournament venue.
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I went twice, would have attended more if circumstances had permitted. First course at which, after taking up golf in 2010, I had time to sit for hours with architecture and excellent players.
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I don't live in Houston nor have I played golf there, so I can't comment on the architectural merits of any potential venues. I cling to my Whispering Pines idea because I don't want to see the LPGA's best home-grown major become a real estate publicity vehicle and find itself looking for a new home once its usefulness as a sales tool is exhausted.
Glad to see this thread finally found its way back to golf.
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I don't live in Houston nor have I played golf there, so I can't comment on the architectural merits of any potential venues. I cling to my Whispering Pines idea because I don't want to see the LPGA's best home-grown major become a real estate publicity vehicle and find itself looking for a new home once its usefulness as a sales tool is exhausted.
Glad to see this thread finally found its way back to golf.
That would be a site that is not a muni, resort or housing community that would be appropriate for a major.
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Jackie Burke's place Champion's?
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Wow. George Orwell was right. But I doubt you ever heard of him.
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And one more thing Tim and Joel, I don’t come here for politics and there may even be some issues we agree upon. But to log on during a nice night and take personal attacks is not fun. I don’t know the answers, and my lobbying years remind me most don’t. Maybe you guys have wisdom I don’t or get directions from God I don’t get. But why , over a subject we must both love, do you feel the need to treat me and many others as second class, backwards, uneducated individuals. Bill Gates recommended the book Factfulness. Finally, if I told you I was a Christian you would have the wrong idea of what I am and believe. I hope you didn’t realize you were ruining a guys night. Let’s get back to golf. You can’t categorize your issues to bad people in bad parts. Obviously we have different upbringings from a manners perspective, and that is fine.
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And one more thing Tim and Joel, I don’t come here for politics and there may even be some issues we agree upon. But to log on during a nice night and take personal attacks is not fun. I don’t know the answers, and my lobbying years remind me most don’t. Maybe you guys have wisdom I don’t or get directions from God I don’t get. But why , over a subject we must both love, do you feel the need to treat me and many others as second class, backwards, uneducated individuals. Bill Gates recommended the book Factfulness. Finally, if I told you I was a Christian you would have the wrong idea of what I am and believe. I hope you didn’t realize you were ruining a guys night. Let’s get back to golf. You can’t categorize your issues to bad people in bad parts. Obviously we have different upbringings from a manners perspective, and that is fine.
Regardless of your politics you have to question why the LPGA would ignore or was ignorant about moving this major tournament to a state that has recently enacted laws to restrict voting and limits a woman's right to choose what to do with her body?
The LPGA, Chevron, ANA are all big businesses. We all know that Chevron has basically no ethics but why would the LPGA follow suit?
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And one more thing Tim and Joel, I don’t come here for politics and there may even be some issues we agree upon. But to log on during a nice night and take personal attacks is not fun. I don’t know the answers, and my lobbying years remind me most don’t. Maybe you guys have wisdom I don’t or get directions from God I don’t get. But why , over a subject we must both love, do you feel the need to treat me and many others as second class, backwards, uneducated individuals. Bill Gates recommended the book Factfulness. Finally, if I told you I was a Christian you would have the wrong idea of what I am and believe. I hope you didn’t realize you were ruining a guys night. Let’s get back to golf. You can’t categorize your issues to bad people in bad parts. Obviously we have different upbringings from a manners perspective, and that is fine.
Regardless of your politics you have to question why the LPGA would ignore or was ignorant about moving this major tournament to a state that has recently enacted laws to restrict voting and limits a woman's right to choose what to do with her body?
The LPGA, Chevron, ANA are all big businesses. We all know that Chevron has basically no ethics but why would the LPGA follow suit?
+1
MLB moved the All Star game from Ga to Co for just the voting rights issues.
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Tim, your avatar is probably offensive to some LPGA members. I get the hypocrisy, I get your point but please can we just talk golf or golf courses. Please.
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Tim has been a dick for years. What suddenly changed to where anyone cares?
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Tim has been a dick for years. What suddenly changed to where anyone cares?
Coming from you the King of Dickness I am honored.
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Tim has been a dick for years. What suddenly changed to where anyone cares?
Coming from you the King of Dickness I am honored.
If you had graduated from Norte Dame you would have known that I am a mere Count.
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Tim, your avatar is probably offensive to some LPGA members. I get the hypocrisy, I get your point but please can we just talk golf or golf courses. Please.
I didn't start this thread nor was I the the first person to address the political issues around the topic. There were 15 posts before my first. When Joel and myself were called out by name I responded to the attacker and will continue to respond to right wing crackpots that think only their opinion matters. I would love to just talk GCA here but politics and golf seem to go hand in hand. I suggest if you don't like a thread don't read it and move on like I do for any topics authored by JK. ;)
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Tim, your avatar is probably offensive to some LPGA members. I get the hypocrisy, I get your point but please can we just talk golf or golf courses. Please.
I didn't start this thread nor was I the the first person to address the political issues around the topic. There were 15 posts before my first. When Joel and myself were called out by name I responded to the attacker and will continue to respond to right wing crackpots that think only their opinion matters. I would love to just talk GCA here but politics and golf seem to go hand in hand. I suggest if you don't like a thread don't read it and move on like I do for any topics[size=78%] authored by JK.[/size] ;)
Not going to argue with you Tim.
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It does seem that the LPGA is being tone deaf in this move based on the current "woke" culture. People have become far more conscious and inclusive so following the money is a bit clueless and moving a permanent LPGA major to this state at this time is utterly baffling outside of the financial aspect. Bad move.
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It does seem that the LPGA is being tone deaf in this move based on the current "woke" culture. People have become far more conscious and inclusive so following the money is a bit clueless and moving a permanent LPGA major to this state at this time is utterly baffling outside of the financial aspect. Bad move.
As some expect the LPGA to not capitalize on the opportunity to avoid Texas and make a political point, maybe all those in disagreement with current policies should show their mettle and leave the state?
Or is it just others who need courage of convictions??
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It does seem that the LPGA is being tone deaf in this move based on the current "woke" culture. People have become far more conscious and inclusive so following the money is a bit clueless and moving a permanent LPGA major to this state at this time is utterly baffling outside of the financial aspect. Bad move.
As some expect the LPGA to not capitalize on the opportunity to avoid Texas and make a political point, maybe all those in disagreement with current policies should show their mettle and leave the state?
Or is it just others who need courage of convictions??
Pat,
Not you too? I always find your posts solid and to the point. Where this discussion has gone, there is no point to be made.
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Tim. This is a golf architecture sight. Your accusations are inaccurate.There are fine people on both sides of your issues. From what I can tell, you are not one of them. I expect more from a Notre Dame graduate. I hope we are not subsidizing your health insurance. That would be a waste.
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It does seem that the LPGA is being tone deaf in this move based on the current "woke" culture. People have become far more conscious and inclusive so following the money is a bit clueless and moving a permanent LPGA major to this state at this time is utterly baffling outside of the financial aspect. Bad move.
As some expect the LPGA to not capitalize on the opportunity to avoid Texas and make a political point, maybe all those in disagreement with current policies should show their mettle and leave the state?
Or is it just others who need courage of convictions??
Pat,
Not you too? I always find your posts solid and to the point. Where this discussion has gone, there is no point to be made.
I’m sorry, I can read it now and see how it would Appear to be too political.
I was more attempting a smart assed comment about this whole thing. It sure seems like These days many expect others to fight the battles they believe in. But I’ll check out.
Most of what I believe in golf isn’t too well fitting in here anymore
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Tim. This is a golf architecture sight. Your accusations are inaccurate.There are fine people on both sides of your issues. From what I can tell, you are not one of them. I expect more from a Notre Dame graduate. I hope we are not subsidizing your health insurance. That would be a waste.
Been drinking much tonight Beensy? "There are fine people on both sides" seems like we've heard that statement from another rightwing crackpot arsehole.
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It does seem that the LPGA is being tone deaf in this move based on the current "woke" culture. People have become far more conscious and inclusive so following the money is a bit clueless and moving a permanent LPGA major to this state at this time is utterly baffling outside of the financial aspect. Bad move.
As some expect the LPGA to not capitalize on the opportunity to avoid Texas and make a political point, maybe all those in disagreement with current policies should show their mettle and leave the state?
Or is it just others who need courage of convictions??
Pat, it doesn’t have to be couched as a political point. The big issue is that woke culture has been politicized instead of standing on its own. Injecting politics into human rights is disgusting.
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Only Diet Coke.I am signing off this one.Get a life.
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Tim. This is a golf architecture sight. Your accusations are inaccurate.There are fine people on both sides of your issues. From what I can tell, you are not one of them. I expect more from a Notre Dame graduate. I hope we are not subsidizing your health insurance. That would be a waste.
If you post such garbage on diet coke, I would hate to hear what you would come up with on something stronger.
I believe health care is a human right. Not believing that puts you in a minority. I believe health care is a God given right. Not believing that puts you where?
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I had an interesting Twitter exchange today with Mike Whan who was the commissioner of the LPGA and now heads up the USGA. He wouldn't touch the political side of moving to Texas but said it was "Simple (yet painful) decision, NO title sponsor, NO earlier dates from course (to avoid Augusta), NO way to fund growth in purse, fans, TV, etc".
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My point obviously was not well communicated because it seems to have been misunderstood . If I don’t make myself clear, that is my fault, not yours. While points on golf course architecture should be carefully set out, this other noise is not important to GCA issues. Accusing me of poor communication is good and humbling. I have to many yes people in my life.It is refreshing to be thought of poorly, even if I don’t know you or why!Maybe a little motivation for the lucky lives we all seem to live.
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8) If anyone interested, they've announced moving the Dinah to Carlton Woods, the Nicklaus Signature course. I'm sure the LPGA will like the accommodations...
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/06/07/lpga-chevron-championship-dates-for-2023/
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If one of the men’s majors were for sale lock, stock & barrel I wonder where the bidding would start and by whom?
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8) JIM,
THE NAMING RIGHTS IN PRO SPORTS ARE BAD ENOUGH... SOMEONE'S ALLWAYS GOING TO CALL IT SPORTS-WASHING... LOCK STOCK AND BARREL IS A WHOLE BRAVE NEW WORLD.