Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Paul Jones on August 09, 2021, 09:23:54 PM
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2021 U.S. Amateur: Home (usga.org) (https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/championships/2021/u-s--amateur.html#!scoring)
-7 is leading, quite a few at -6 and -5 after 1st round.
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Did you check the course?
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Did you check the course?
Did not realize they were playing multiple courses. Now this is not surprising :-)
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Of the lowest 80 scores, 7 were at Oakmont. -1 was the lowest score at Oakmont..
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I think my question is whether there’s any point to a course playing as hard as Oakmont is? The Oakmont players averaged 7.2 shots over par today for 18 holes. It’s not actually the best field in amateur golf because there are so many qualifiers…but it’s pretty damn strong.
27.6% of the Oakmont players (43 out of 156) shot 80 (+10) or worse.
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USGA likes multiple courses for the match play events, as they can bring more players on site.
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certainly will be an interesting contrast to last year's US Amateur.
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It’s August so my bet is that Oakmont’s greens are still firm but LV’s aren’t. The other thing I have noticed about Oakmont is that if you start losing confidence on the greens it’s all down hill from there. There is no letup.
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I was hoping for some tv coverage of the stroke play part of the event. Oh well.
I did play Longue Vue about 1 year ago and here is a photo tour of the Robert White design:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/LongueVue/index.html
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I think my question is whether there’s any point to a course playing as hard as Oakmont is? The Oakmont players averaged 7.2 shots over par today for 18 holes. It’s not actually the best field in amateur golf because there are so many qualifiers…but it’s pretty damn strong.
27.6% of the Oakmont players (43 out of 156) shot 80 (+10) or worse.
Matt-
I'm guessing you probably checked out sectional qualifying scores around the country? Pretty incredible how low they were at almost every site. There were many sites where 5 and 6 under did not get in. It wasn't that long ago where 5 under par would've been medalist by three or four shots. It seems like the scoring at every level of competitive golf is crazy low.
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"Pretty incredible how low they were at almost every site. There were many sites where 5 and 6 under did not get in. It wasn't that long ago where 5 under par would've been medalist by three or four shots. It seems like the scoring at every level of competitive golf is crazy low."
In Northern California there were 5 qualifying sites for the US Am. Two rounds of 68 (136) would not have been good enough to qualify at any of them.
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Joe, your tour of Longue Vue is stunning. Well done.
I'm particularly struck by the manufactured cant of the 8th green. I can't fathom how deep the rear fall-off is and suspect that reading putts there is quite challenging. Perhaps that's true of the entire course.
Thanks.
Mike
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The disparity is really quite amazing. Not sure I would want or expect it to be different...but it's incredible.
A friend shot 3 over par at Oakmont and was in something like 115th place...but only 14 of those ahead of him were also at Oakmont.
Longue Vue is a very well regarded course here in PA and should be greatly appreciated by the players. There's just not much you can say about the relentless difficulty of Oakmont. Remarkable.
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Joe, your tour of Longue Vue is stunning. Well done.
I'm particularly struck by the manufactured cant of the 8th green. I can't fathom how deep the rear fall-off is and suspect that reading putts there is quite challenging. Perhaps that's true of the entire course.
Thanks.
Mike
Mike Cirba and I were paired with the green chair and the club champion. I forget the club champ's name right now, but he was in his 30s and has played in some big amateur events. He looked like Ernie Els and swung the club similarly. He played the tips that day while we were at the member tees. If a back tee was maybe 75 yards behind us, I could sometimes out drive him! The course was fast and firm and this fellow knew how to play it. We enjoyed the day immensely.
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500 yard difference (both par 70) in the two courses: 6,700 vs. 7,200. All things being equal, how many strokes does 500 yards equate to?
It must be an interesting challenge to know you have to take it low on one course and just try and survive on the other.
I read yesterday that Oakmont's greens are running 15 currently and that Jason Gore said they could get another 2 feet faster. Best of luck to those who make match play!
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500 yard difference (both par 70) in the two courses: 6,700 vs. 7,200. All things being equal, how many strokes does 500 yards equate to?
One way of looking at it: based on the unrated tee adjustment table, 500 yards extrapolates to somewhere around 2.2 extra strokes.
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Appendix%20G%20Golf%20Course%20Course%20Rating%20Slope%20Rating.htm
Hope I get to catch some of the match play. Oakmont in that format sounds awesome.
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Hope I get to catch some of the match play. Oakmont in that format sounds awesome.
I am sure Bogey will win a hole or two...
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Kid who grew up at my club finished plus 4. Looks like he’s going to miss out by 2.
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Seems way too early to tell based on the rain delay but I'd be shocked if +3 doesn't playoff.
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I think my question is whether there’s any point to a course playing as hard as Oakmont is? The Oakmont players averaged 7.2 shots over par today for 18 holes. It’s not actually the best field in amateur golf because there are so many qualifiers…but it’s pretty damn strong.
27.6% of the Oakmont players (43 out of 156) shot 80 (+10) or worse.
Buddy of mine played there, said the greens were running 17. I’d imagine they slowed them down a bit but he said it was unbelievable.
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Seems way too early to tell based on the rain delay but I'd be shocked if +3 doesn't playoff.
My best estimate is plus 4 is in a playoff.
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2 of the boys at the USGA Junior shot 64 on the Dogwood Course at CCNC - these college guys are insanely good so really low scores should be no surprise.
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Seems way too early to tell based on the rain delay but I'd be shocked if +3 doesn't playoff.
My best estimate is plus 4 is in a playoff.
I'd believe it. Either a good playoff at +3 or a bad playoff at +4 IMO.
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I think my question is whether there’s any point to a course playing as hard as Oakmont is? The Oakmont players averaged 7.2 shots over par today for 18 holes. It’s not actually the best field in amateur golf because there are so many qualifiers…but it’s pretty damn strong.
27.6% of the Oakmont players (43 out of 156) shot 80 (+10) or worse.
Buddy of mine played there, said the greens were running 17. I’d imagine they slowed them down a bit but he said it was unbelievable.
I can’t ever recall a reference to green speeds that stimped at 17!?
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I think my question is whether there’s any point to a course playing as hard as Oakmont is? The Oakmont players averaged 7.2 shots over par today for 18 holes. It’s not actually the best field in amateur golf because there are so many qualifiers…but it’s pretty damn strong.
27.6% of the Oakmont players (43 out of 156) shot 80 (+10) or worse.
Buddy of mine played there, said the greens were running 17. I’d imagine they slowed them down a bit but he said it was unbelievable.
I can’t ever recall a reference to green speeds that stimped at 17!?
It's such references(whether real or not) that are responsible for the speed creep we see today.
17?
It's tough for courses/Supers who have made their reputation based on fast greens when the target always is moving.
Anyone wonder why 136 can't get in at a qualifier?
Create tools that let the majority hit it 300plus yards, speed the greens up a lot, and find the only pins you can use on your green and watch them bomb, gouge and MAKE everything to the benign pin you have been stuck with.
And of course the many talented players train and are coached for this.
Then throw in rain/heat or something that decreases "firm" and off to the races they go.
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jeffwarne,
+1
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"Pretty incredible how low they were at almost every site. There were many sites where 5 and 6 under did not get in. It wasn't that long ago where 5 under par would've been medalist by three or four shots. It seems like the scoring at every level of competitive golf is crazy low."
In Northern California there were 5 qualifying sites for the US Am. Two rounds of 68 (136) would not have been good enough to qualify at any of them.
Actually, 137 got in at Sunnyside in Fresno. But still an amazing stat.
There was a guy who shot 141 to qualify in Florida. He shot 90 at Oakmont yesterday.
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If you are shaky at all with the putter, it can be a long day at Oakmont. My first time there my buddy three putted every hole on the front nine. It got so bad I gave him five footers.
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If you are shaky at all with the putter, it can be a long day at Oakmont. My first time there my buddy three putted every hole on the front nine. It got so bad I gave him five footers.
My Oakmont putting story. I’m playing #10. The hole is front left and my ball is back right. The caddie points to a spot that is hole high and 15 or more feet left of the hole from my perspective at the back. He says, you want to just putt it to here and it will go down to the hole. I did exactly that stopping it right where he pointed, leaving me with a 15 foot straight downhill second putt. I was happy that I only three-putted the hole.
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Looks like 68 (-2) was the low score at Oakmont.
My putting story. Shotgun start was on #8 to a back left hole. 15 feet. 4. #9 approach shot to 15 feet, with hole cut near the left ledge. 7
Before the round don't head to the range until you are (semi) dialed in on the practice green.
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I was out the on Wednesday and Thursday. To me from what I observed it seems that the difference on Monday was they place was probably very firm and dry. The last two days the greens did not seem dangerously quick from what I saw. Seems like the rains took the teeth out of it. The primary rough length was very fair in my opinion nothing I would be shocked to find at a top club under regular play. The first cut is very wide and while I typically prefer not to see a first cut it really works at Oakmont when you consider the challenge of the course.
The entire place was immaculately maintained, as good as anything I’ve ever seen, probably the best as I think about it.
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For those who took the day off like me, coverage starts in 15 minutes, looking forward to it!
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One of my good friends from HS played in it at age 47 was one of the oldest qualifiers. He shot 79 on Monday at Oakmont and 71 at Longue Vue. I think the field averaged about 77/78 on Monday at Oakmont. With the rain it played significantly easier as we saw. It was the putting that separated the field.