Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Thomas Dai on April 02, 2020, 02:18:22 PM
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This thread is about Private Members Clubs NOT about pay-n-play or municipals facilities.
Which would you as a Club Member prefer ..... a full length multi-bay driving range or a huge short-game practice area and a massive putting green?
atb
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I guess if both can’t be done, then I would opt for the large range. Hopefully hitting areas on both ends. Small putting green and small chipping green would be fine. Both my current clubs have that set up. Modest short game area and huge two way range with numerous short to long range targets.
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Agree. Range more valuable than short game area. Short game area has to be entirely in tip-top shape (more human-hours of labor and higher cost) than range. Double-end decks ideal. Can always work on short game on one of the course's greens, during the gloaming.
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Agree with the two replies so far. Full swing the most important part for scoring too. Plus, heck, I can chip in my yard if necessarily.
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I really enjoy a large grass driving range with smooth perfect grass, you almost don't want to mess it up with my sod cutting. I appreciate the pro coming around and instructing some golfers to use a square and gradually move back with each shot then over and repeat to stay in a confined area.
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At some private clubs, the range is a source of revenue for the club. Hard to give that up. ;)
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Forget the large driving range. Ball lands somewhere down range where you can only estimate where. A virtual range gives you consistently accurate data with additional measurements like spin rate. Build a great short game area and get the kids heavily involved in its use.
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Large range
No reason target greens couldn't be just in front of tee-we did this at Doral-a bunker nearly the length of the tee, with a pitching/chipping green right there you can pitch to from the range
Especially if both ends in use. I can promise it will get more use than a short game area-especially if well designed.
A large range gives you real estate that you can easily upgrade as funds become available,.
Brian Schneider reworked our range where it can be converted to a par 3 course for little additional cost vs.just range fairway.
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:o
I'm down on range vs short game
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A driving range conjures up pictures of a big tee and a wide open field. Every practice area should include target greens. Some of them can be close to the tee. At my old club I spent more time in the short game practice area than on the full shot area. If I am voting I will always want a short game area.
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Short game area. I could spend the day there.
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I'd prefer the short game area over the range. But a huge putting green wouldn't be that attractive unless it has some real dynamics to it. Even then, hitting long putts doesn't do much for me.
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If I ever want to remove any element of surprise and win some money I'll go to the short game area for about 30 minutes before anyone else shows up. It's hard work and takes most of the fun out of the game. I'd rather have a cigar and a drink.
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As a kid we had a term for the above. Secretly Shagging. It is as much cheating as sandbagging.
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As a kid we had a term for the above. Secretly Shagging. It is as much cheating as sandbagging.
That's a different form of cheating, in the U.K. ;)
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If I ever want to remove any element of surprise and win some money I'll go to the short game area for about 30 minutes before anyone else shows up. It's hard work and takes most of the fun out of the game. I'd rather have a cigar and a drink.
VN has a great practice area. I spent about two hours at the short game area last summer.
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If I ever want to remove any element of surprise and win some money I'll go to the short game area for about 30 minutes before anyone else shows up. It's hard work and takes most of the fun out of the game. I'd rather have a cigar and a drink.
VN has a great practice area. I spent about two hours at the short game area last summer.
That it is but not quite as good as the new range and short game area at the Four Seasons in Orlando.
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....... using which one is more likely to help you shoot lower scores on the course?
atb
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Sadly because it is almost impossible to teach someone how to get better at chipping and putting Erik is saddling up to sell us a wagon load of misinformation. If you can win while putting badly you already hit the ball well enough to skip the range.
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The biggest problem I have found in many short game area is that they are not large enough. It needs to be large enough to combat a divot problem. Chipping is fine but 40 yard lob wedges create divots. When I go to the short game area I will throw a buck of balls in different places so the divots are spread out. Hitting the same 40 yard shot doesn't help much with touch. Hitting them from different stances and yardages does.
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At a club I ran, we had a big open area, not the size of a range, but about 1/3 of that. We built a really cool short game area big enough to put a really interesting green, bunkers, and about 70 yard shots with some variety. We thought it would be get a ton of use. I'd say about 5 people a day used it. Total waste of $100K.
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Hmm, when in doubt... take a cue from Augusta.... ;)
(https://www.augusta.com/sites/default/files/article/images/12041408.jpg)
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I’ve heard it said numerous times by the pros themselves, and by their coaches etc, that the pros work on their short game and putting far more than they work on their long game on a range.
Atb
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At a club I ran, we had a big open area, not the size of a range, but about 1/3 of that. We built a really cool short game area big enough to put a really interesting green, bunkers, and about 70 yard shots with some variety. We thought it would be get a ton of use. I'd say about 5 people a day used it. Total waste of $100K.
Did you also have a range?
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....... using which one is more likely to help you shoot lower scores on the course?
In the short term? Putting and chipping. They're the "easiest" parts of golf to get better at quickly. But they offer the least amount of "Separation Value®".
Over the long term? The best players are the best ball strikers. Yes, you can scrape it around and lean on a great short game and putting stroke from time to time, but the best players over the long haul are the best ball strikers.
Sadly because it is almost impossible to teach someone how to get better at chipping and putting Erik is saddling up to sell us a wagon load of misinformation. If you can win while putting badly you already hit the ball well enough to skip the range.
No misinformation here. Just maybe some people like you who seem to be unwilling to learn new things? ;) My grandmother playing mini golf could make a 20-foot putt. She never hit a 7-iron over 90 yards in her life. Ballstriking separates. Always has.
Join the modern era, John. The water is fine.
The biggest problem I have found in many short game area is that they are not large enough. It needs to be large enough to combat a divot problem. Chipping is fine but 40 yard lob wedges create divots. When I go to the short game area I will throw a buck of balls in different places so the divots are spread out. Hitting the same 40 yard shot doesn't help much with touch. Hitting them from different stances and yardages does.
Lake View CC near me has a pretty great short game area. It's where the range used to be when I was a kid. It's about 200+ yards long, with three good sized greens spread from one end to the other.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lake+View+Country+Club/@42.1814985,-79.823677,234m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x882d66afd42a4cab:0x93201d297471d2c9!8m2!3d42.184104!4d-79.819054 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lake+View+Country+Club/@42.1814985,-79.823677,234m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x882d66afd42a4cab:0x93201d297471d2c9!8m2!3d42.184104!4d-79.819054)
Ditto the Kahkwa Club, with a nice short game area:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kahkwa+Club/@42.0540299,-80.207419,234m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8832795ff1324fff:0x239846671946631f!8m2!3d42.054329!4d-80.2044389 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kahkwa+Club/@42.0540299,-80.207419,234m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8832795ff1324fff:0x239846671946631f!8m2!3d42.054329!4d-80.2044389)
I’ve heard it said numerous times by the pros themselves, and by their coaches etc, that the pros work on their short game and putting far more than they work on their long game on a range.
They do not. (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/what-was-a-practice-day-like-with-tiger-woods-at-his-peak-youll-get-tired-just-reading-about-it) Not generally. Not over the long-term.
These aren't opinions anymore, guys. We have the data. :)
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Large range which allows hitting to a variety of winds. Besides, the rules of golf allow practice on the preceding green and around the tee of the subsequent hole as long as play is not delayed.