Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Emile Bonfiglio on January 27, 2019, 05:33:22 PM

Title: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Emile Bonfiglio on January 27, 2019, 05:33:22 PM
Heard from someone playing down there that this hole in no longer part of the routing and that there has been a new inland par 3 added (now called #12).


If that is true, I think this degrades this course out of the world top 100. It was part of 3 amazing finishing holes and 1 of 3 oceanfront par 3's. Any details would be appreciated.


(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0226/2101/products/CaboOcean1.jpg?v=1490316177)
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tom_Doak on January 27, 2019, 05:40:14 PM
This seems unlikely.


Not that the resort owners wouldn't love to find a way to cash in that land for real estate, but there were already houses all along the left side of the hole overlooking the ocean . . . putting a new home site where the green is would make them VERY unhappy.  And you've got to get from 16 to 18 somehow, so you can't block the path with real estate.


If the report is true, it would be a giant blot on the course, but it will take a couple more sources for me to believe it.  There are all kinds of crazy rumors in the golf business, and a lot of them are just pure b.s.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Emile Bonfiglio on January 27, 2019, 06:21:02 PM
This seems unlikely.


Not that the resort owners wouldn't love to find a way to cash in that land for real estate, but there were already houses all along the left side of the hole overlooking the ocean . . . putting a new home site where the green is would make them VERY unhappy.  And you've got to get from 16 to 18 somehow, so you can't block the path with real estate.


If the report is true, it would be a giant blot on the course, but it will take a couple more sources for me to believe it.  There are all kinds of crazy rumors in the golf business, and a lot of them are just pure b.s.


Roll over the course routing on their site, https://www.cabodelsol.com/golf/the-ocean-course/ Hole 12 says "new hole par 3" with no drawings and the old 16 is now listed as the 17th. I just messaged with a person that played there today. There is a soccer field south of the first hole on the mountain course that would be the assumed location of the this new hole as it works perfect with the new routing.




Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Steve_ Shaffer on January 27, 2019, 06:24:33 PM
Confirmed!!!! Called their 866#.  Happened in November.  New 12th hole.  16th is now 17th.  Housing more likely than a Beach Club.  Other golf renovations planned.  Nothing on Internet. Decided to call. Amazing!! 
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tom_Doak on January 27, 2019, 06:29:49 PM
Wow.  Congrats on being a news breaker, Emile.


I guess we can cross Cabo del Sol off the list of places to go. 


Curious:  I don't follow the rankings that closely anymore; had their course been pushed out of the World Top 100 lists recently?  If so, I'd guess it was easier for the owners to say, screw it, we are taking the money.  If not . . . I guess that's still their POV.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Emile Bonfiglio on January 27, 2019, 06:54:42 PM
Wow.  Congrats on being a news breaker, Emile.


I guess we can cross Cabo del Sol off the list of places to go. 


Curious:  I don't follow the rankings that closely anymore; had their course been pushed out of the World Top 100 lists recently?  If so, I'd guess it was easier for the owners to say, screw it, we are taking the money.  If not . . . I guess that's still their POV.


GD had it at 70 (non US courses), 138 overall. Not the first time a course in Cabo has sacrificed an oceanfront hole for the sake of the Gringo (I'm looking at you El Dorado). That will however, make one heck of a sweet place to build a modest casita.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tom_Doak on January 27, 2019, 07:12:24 PM
I just checked - the course had also disappeared from the GOLF Magazine World Top 100, which used to be what they hung their hat on.  I don't know if that happened in 2017 or earlier, but it wasn't even listed as one of the courses that "came close" [the next 15] so they probably figured they were done with that.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Jake Marvin on January 27, 2019, 09:27:44 PM
Looking past the loss of #17 (which is sad, as far as losing a hole goes), that sure looks like an awkward arrangement for the new stretch of 11-13. Wonder if there's any changes coming for new #13 to make the routing flow better?


That said, trading in such a great hole for 160 yards of what appears to be relatively featureless land is a shame, at least for the golfer.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tim Leahy on January 27, 2019, 10:58:32 PM
Anybody in contact with Greg Tallman here? He was the pro there who hosted our King's Putter(Tequilla Cup) and might have all the details. He was a frequent poster here also.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Greg Tallman on January 28, 2019, 12:22:04 AM
The elimination of 17 a couple of months ago is but one of many changes happening to The Ocean Course. Eventually 8 holes will be eliminated or altered as development plans are implemented.


Tough to watch but as Glen Frey once sang... the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tom_Doak on January 28, 2019, 08:57:24 AM

Tough to watch but as Glen Frey once sang... the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.


You should have used an alias.
(In case somebody squeals.)


Sorry to hear about the master plan.  That’s the first time I can think of where somebody just took down a top 100 course, to sell the real estate.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Jeff Schley on January 28, 2019, 09:31:18 AM
Say it ain't so.   :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Greg Tallman on January 28, 2019, 10:08:06 AM

Tough to watch but as Glen Frey once sang... the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.


You should have used an alias.
(In case somebody squeals.)


Sorry to hear about the master plan.  That’s the first time I can think of where somebody just took down a top 100 course, to sell the real estate.


Tom, I have been gone from CDS for a little more than a year and a half when the plans were first floated. The resulted will be more of a El Dorado/Discovery experience versus great golf as the anchor... gotta give them what they want and down here the experience stuff far outweighs pure golf.


The course will still be pretty good and not nearly as disjointed as El Dorado post renovation.


New careers are fun at 50!!!
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Simon Holt on January 28, 2019, 11:31:49 AM
I played a couple of weeks ago but was told when booking in December that it was no longer there.  They are building a beach club on the beach.


A couple of the ocean holes on the front 9 are changing too, and don't hold your breath about the 18th either.


I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked the course.  It has more eye candy than Diamante if that's your thing but I couldn't help feel that the course everyone has known will be far from the course you'll see in the next couple of years.


Still free tacos with at the turn with the $400 green fee though...fill your boots!
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Lou_Duran on January 28, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
I am sure glad that my wife talked me out of buying a fractional share of a condo there.  The natural beauty of the course with the arid landscapes and the ocean is what attracted me the most.  I suspect that existing owners aren't very happy with what's going on.  It reinforces the idea that investing in a golf property without zoning/use guarantees via deed restrictions is not a good idea.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: MClutterbuck on January 28, 2019, 05:54:04 PM
The elimination of 17 a couple of months ago is but one of many changes happening to The Ocean Course. Eventually 8 holes will be eliminated or altered as development plans are implemented.


Tough to watch but as Glen Frey once sang... the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.


You have just convinced me never to buy property in Mexico. How is this even legal?
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Greg Tallman on January 28, 2019, 07:36:26 PM
Not sure how this example prompted the Mexico comment. Heck, there are thousands of homes in the US built around courses that NLE mas have been transitioned to parks and such.


The changes to the golf have been relatively well received considering the overall plans for the project. Most of us on here get WAY more wrapped up in the quality to the course design than the masses. Just give them solid golf in great condition and all the other amenities and they are over the moon.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tom_Doak on January 28, 2019, 09:01:30 PM
Most of us on here get WAY more wrapped up in the quality to the course design than the masses. Just give them solid golf in great condition and all the other amenities and they are over the moon.


Maybe, but it seems to me your owners are putting at risk the very thing that made golfers want to go to Cabo in the first place (desert meets ocean!).


Maybe it’s such an established destination now that it doesn’t need that, but maybe people will stop bringing their clubs.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Greg Tallman on January 28, 2019, 09:08:31 PM
Most of us on here get WAY more wrapped up in the quality to the course design than the masses. Just give them solid golf in great condition and all the other amenities and they are over the moon.


Maybe, but it seems to me your owners are putting at risk the very thing that made golfers want to go to Cabo in the first place (desert meets ocean!).


Maybe it’s such an established destination now that it doesn’t need that, but maybe people will stop bringing their clubs.


Tom, i am fearful that the accessible golf options here may no longer attract a high level of golfer but the reality is the when winter hits it is still about the most certain option for perfect weather and solid golf. That said losing an “anchor facility” is not great.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Joel_Stewart on January 28, 2019, 09:15:55 PM
Hasn't Diamante  done the same thing?
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Mike_Trenham on January 28, 2019, 10:07:19 PM

Sorry to hear about the master plan.  That’s the first time I can think of where somebody just took down a top 100 course, to sell the real estate.


Tom would Lido not be a good comparison?  Didn't the hotel become the priority and when money got tight they sold off the holes along the ocean?
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Yannick Pilon on January 29, 2019, 09:14:13 AM
This whole thing is unbelievable to me.

There are only a handful of homes along the back nine of the Ocean course, and most of them are on the 17th hole. I really don't understand the logic of eliminating one of the most spectacular holes on the property in order to build what would be a small Beach Club. If they plan on seeing many more homes being built in that area in the near future to justify the need for a beach club, why not use the lands just south of the 16th hole, which have homes that are mostly abandonned right along the beach??

So many areas around the course appear to have been abandonned many years ago (the huge area right of 5 and 6, the big house pad built on the right side and encroaching on the right of 16, and the huge expanse of land on the left of 18 and beyond the 18th green, right along the ocean...). The whole place seemed as if the whole developpment of the resort was stopped decades ago. While the course itself was good, the whole surroundings of it seemed very odd to me, as if it was incomplete, or just simply frozen in time.

This being said, the scary/spectacular tee shot on 17 was the highlight of my golf round at Cabo del Sol, AND the highlight of my whole "Cabo del Sol experience". I don't think I would spend 300+US$ again to play there if that's how they plan on changing that "experience". What's next, the 7th??

Just sad....

YP
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tom_Doak on January 29, 2019, 11:17:51 AM

Sorry to hear about the master plan.  That’s the first time I can think of where somebody just took down a top 100 course, to sell the real estate.


Tom would Lido not be a good comparison?  Didn't the hotel become the priority and when money got tight they sold off the holes along the ocean?


I'm pretty sure the original owners of Lido went bankrupt.  The 1930's weren't the right time to cash in an extra $100 mil worth of real estate.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: MClutterbuck on January 29, 2019, 11:42:11 AM
Not sure how this example prompted the Mexico comment. Heck, there are thousands of homes in the US built around courses that NLE mas have been transitioned to parks and such.


The changes to the golf have been relatively well received considering the overall plans for the project. Most of us on here get WAY more wrapped up in the quality to the course design than the masses. Just give them solid golf in great condition and all the other amenities and they are over the moon.


Greg, I was in Cabo in 2003 and played and got pitched to acquire property at Cabo del Sol. I remember well the marketing pitch. I am pretty sure having 17th and then 7 other holes changed pretty much violates all the representations made. Since Cabo del Sol is in Mexico and was so well regarded at that time, it does scare me to buy property elsewhere in Mexico. That is reality and being Latin American myself, this is not meant to offend any Mexican. I am pretty sure I would have more recourse to the legal system in the US than in Mexico if I feel defrauded.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Kalen Braley on January 29, 2019, 11:46:12 AM
I've never been there, but this feels a bit like removing the 16th at Cypress and building a replacement par 3 back near the treeline somewhere...  :o :o
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Emile Bonfiglio on January 29, 2019, 11:53:30 AM
This whole thing is unbelievable to me.

......What's next, the 7th??

Just sad....

YP


Actually yes it is next, I've done bit more inquiring and from a good sources I understand that 18 will be eliminated soon. The par 3 7th will also be moved and hole 5 shortened. Eventually 10 & 11 will also eliminated and clubhouse demolished as well. :'(

When is the last time a course of this stature has exercised the nuclear option?

I wonder if after 20+ years the thought is that the course served it purpose. It brought attention to the development, became a name brand of Mexico golf, and will likely still be one of the better accessible clubs in Cabo for the retail golfer to enjoy.

In 10 years I suspect most people staying in the new beachfront hotel will never know there are on the former site of one of the best oceanfront stretch of holes (I'm still talking about you too El Dorado).

Straight Cash Homies!
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Brad Tufts on January 30, 2019, 12:12:06 PM

I was fortunate to meet you Greg for the Tequila Cup, and I'm glad you moved on when the time was right!  I hope to return sometime soon, with a certain Irishman or not...I will surely let you know.


I feel fortunate as well to have played the Ocean Course at its peak, and I'm disappointed to see a couple of the high points go by the wayside.  It's sad when this happens in our odd little world, but I guess it's a reminder that there are bigger issues at some of these resorts than preserving great golf holes....straight cash homies is right.


As we pile on about CDS, I don't think the loss of 3 or 4 ocean holes poisons Cabo as a golf destination.  With Diamante (x2), Chileno Bay, Querencia (maybe x2 someday), Quivira, and now Twin Dolphins...that's a pretty darn good lineup (connections aside) without including two decent "now without ocean!" CDS courses.


Diamante-Love/Cowley has undergone some changes too since the 18 I played, and they look for the better.  The original #10 was an awkward uphill 480y par 4.95 and looks to now be split into a par three and par four.  Trading the two pond-infused holes for two dune holes looks great from the aerial, and #18 was a bit of an odd finisher, now gone in favor of the neat former 17th as the home hole.  I haven't played the new version, but perhaps an upgrade from a 7-7.5 to an 8?   
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Jake Marvin on January 30, 2019, 02:57:40 PM
So... where are all these extra holes going, then? And/or will the new par three be permanent or is that just there to make it an 18-holer until further changes are implemented?


Obviously, they're within their rights to change the course, but I do think it's quite dishonest to continue selling tee times at the normal rate with no mention of the recent or upcoming changes unless you flip through the hole-by-hole descriptions (hell, they're still advertising seven holes on the ocean). Usually changes of this magnitude (especially to famous holes) seem to draw some attention. The lack of news here seems a touch deceitful.


While Diamante's being mentioned, has the hotel building nearby impacted the experience at the Dunes? Haven't seen pictures but I imagine I wouldn't like a course more if the ocean and beach views were blocked by a Hard Rock tower.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Anthony_Nysse on January 30, 2019, 03:00:37 PM
What was done at El Dorado?
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tom_Doak on January 30, 2019, 04:58:00 PM
What was done at El Dorado?


El Dorado used to have the 9th and 18th right along the beach, and the 8th & 17th looking right over them, greens perched near the rocks.


I happened to be at Sebonack with Jack Nicklaus and Jim Lipe the day they got the news that Discovery Land had bought the course and wanted to change those holes so they could turn them into real estate, and they hoped that Jack would be willing to make the changes, but if not they had another designer who could.


The number I heard then was a quick $40 million in real estate.  I assume they replaced the holes for a lot less than that.  The road crossings on the course made the original routing slightly awkward, but not nearly as awkward as what they have now.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Anthony_Nysse on January 31, 2019, 07:04:27 AM
What was done at El Dorado?


El Dorado used to have the 9th and 18th right along the beach, and the 8th & 17th looking right over them, greens perched near the rocks.


I happened to be at Sebonack with Jack Nicklaus and Jim Lipe the day they got the news that Discovery Land had bought the course and wanted to change those holes so they could turn them into real estate, and they hoped that Jack would be willing to make the changes, but if not they had another designer who could.


The number I heard then was a quick $40 million in real estate.  I assume they replaced the holes for a lot less than that.  The road crossings on the course made the original routing slightly awkward, but not nearly as awkward as what they have now.



Thank you, sir!
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Greg Tallman on January 31, 2019, 11:12:14 AM
What was done at El Dorado?


El Dorado used to have the 9th and 18th right along the beach, and the 8th & 17th looking right over them, greens perched near the rocks.


I happened to be at Sebonack with Jack Nicklaus and Jim Lipe the day they got the news that Discovery Land had bought the course and wanted to change those holes so they could turn them into real estate, and they hoped that Jack would be willing to make the changes, but if not they had another designer who could.


The number I heard then was a quick $40 million in real estate.  I assume they replaced the holes for a lot less than that.  The road crossings on the course made the original routing slightly awkward, but not nearly as awkward as what they have now.


Tom, your real estate numbers are waaaay too low. Those holes yielded 38 ocean front lots that were sold at an average of roughly $7 million each. So $300 million is a ball park for what just those holes were “worth”. Add to that the condo/villa product that they were able to stack on top of those homes and the number may be nearly double for a relatively small bit of land.


Fast forward 12 years and two of those homes built on the old 8th green/9th tee area sold as a package deal for $75 million+. Too lazy to go to municipal building to get the exact number but 75 is number relayed by someone involved in the sale... PERSPECTIVE!!

Was never a fan of 17 and 18 that just seemed to be lesser versions of what Jack had already done at CDS.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Greg Tallman on January 31, 2019, 11:26:57 AM

I was fortunate to meet you Greg for the Tequila Cup, and I'm glad you moved on when the time was right!  I hope to return sometime soon, with a certain Irishman or not...I will surely let you know.


I feel fortunate as well to have played the Ocean Course at its peak, and I'm disappointed to see a couple of the high points go by the wayside.  It's sad when this happens in our odd little world, but I guess it's a reminder that there are bigger issues at some of these resorts than preserving great golf holes....straight cash homies is right.


As we pile on about CDS, I don't think the loss of 3 or 4 ocean holes poisons Cabo as a golf destination.  With Diamante (x2), Chileno Bay, Querencia (maybe x2 someday), Quivira, and now Twin Dolphins...that's a pretty darn good lineup (connections aside) without including two decent "now without ocean!" CDS courses.


Diamante-Love/Cowley has undergone some changes too since the 18 I played, and they look for the better.  The original #10 was an awkward uphill 480y par 4.95 and looks to now be split into a par three and par four.  Trading the two pond-infused holes for two dune holes looks great from the aerial, and #18 was a bit of an odd finisher, now gone in favor of the neat former 17th as the home hole.  I haven't played the new version, but perhaps an upgrade from a 7-7.5 to an 8?


Brad, thank you and it was a pleasure to hang out with you and the most interesting man in the world.


As far as Cabo golf goes the issue is accessibility as most of the top tier is now private or requires a stay at on site hotel. Unless you are willing to switch hotels every other night it would be tough to play all the better courses (Diamante-Dunes, Chileno Bay, Twin Dolphin... etc). CDS Ocean was still that accessible “trophy course” around which a nice golf trip could be built for the masses. Now it’s a Pebble Beach type scenario... pay dearly for a room (very, very nice room) to access the course(s).


In terms of Diamante-Dunes the original 12 and 13 (now a 12 hole short course/golf playground) didn’t bother me that much but the new holes are decidedly better even if the par 4 is not my favorite.


Moving the green on original 10th (now 11th) was a significant upgrade if only from a location standpoint (both greens still severe for length of hole).


New 10th hole par 3 adds to a strong set of one shot holes and Paul continues to tweak this one to make it better.


Losing the original 18th (now a 14 hole reversible putting course/homes) is an overall positive as it was a strange finish after a great stretch of holes.


Look me up if you head this way, I’ll understand if you don’t respond soon - keyboard likely frozen.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Greg Tallman on January 31, 2019, 11:34:40 AM
So... where are all these extra holes going, then? And/or will the new par three be permanent or is that just there to make it an 18-holer until further changes are implemented?


Obviously, they're within their rights to change the course, but I do think it's quite dishonest to continue selling tee times at the normal rate with no mention of the recent or upcoming changes unless you flip through the hole-by-hole descriptions (hell, they're still advertising seven holes on the ocean). Usually changes of this magnitude (especially to famous holes) seem to draw some attention. The lack of news here seems a touch deceitful.


While Diamante's being mentioned, has the hotel building nearby impacted the experience at the Dunes? Haven't seen pictures but I imagine I wouldn't like a course more if the ocean and beach views were blocked by a Hard Rock tower.


Jake,


I don’t believe they are deceiving anyone (apart from overlooking a long used phrase on a website) as guests are informed of 17 when booking to my knowledge and future bookings may be on hold.


As far as the hotel question and Diamante there is little denying a 5+ story hotel impairs the view from what was a hole along the beach (a very deep beach!). That said Paul is a creative little fellow and has mitigated that issue pretty well. Let’s just say that the sand from the hotel site was put to great use on the DUNES course. Take some getting used to but impressive nonetheless.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Paul Rudovsky on February 02, 2019, 10:41:54 PM
Regarding the comparisons to Lido...totally different (unless the resort in Mexico is in financial trouble).  As I understand it, the members of Lido started clamoring for a clubhouse with rooms so they could stay for a weekend (remember a trip from Manhattan to Lido Beach was not easy in those days).  So the club built a clubhouse/hotel...and took out a mortgage to finance a large part of it.  A couple of years later in was October 1929...and the club started losing members.  The monthly mortgage obligations were not something the really wealthy members wanted to support...so the bank ended up taking the property.  During WW II it was a training ground...and by the end of the war nothing much was left except the hotel...which now is a condo.


If you go to google maps and search for Lido Golf Club ("Lido 2"), you will find the new course designed by RTJ Sr about 60 years ago...it lies west of where the old course ("Lido 1").  Lido 1 was to the east of the eastern border of Lido 2...and extended in the N-S direction all the way from the Atlantic Ocean to the south and Reynolds Channel to the north.  The Lido 1 clubhouse/hotel (now condo) was near the SW corner of the Lido 1 property and is now called "Lido Beach Towers Condominium".  From overhead the shape of the building (its footprint) looks like an "X"


I love the game of golf and great courses probably as much as anyone, but frankly with what the US was facing during the Depression, I am not surprised the club died...it had become severly overextended and while it is easy to say "how could they have abandoned this?" almost any rational person (and a lot of irrational ones) would have said "let's walk from this" in that situation.


Go to this site for the map:


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lido+Golf+Club/@40.5899602,-73.6284977,2768m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c27a9fa753a04b:0xaf5caabf54bb6286!8m2!3d40.5879593!4d-73.6281979

Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Wayne_Kozun on February 02, 2019, 10:58:06 PM
Isn't something similar happening at Nirwana Bali?  A top 100 course (at least on some lists) is being torn up and redone.  This time it is so that the resort can be even posher.  Apparently the developer of this resort is some guy named Trump.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Paul Rudovsky on February 03, 2019, 10:01:52 AM
Isn't something similar happening at Nirwana Bali?  A top 100 course (at least on some lists) is being torn up and redone.  This time it is so that the resort can be even posher.  Apparently the developer of this resort is some guy named Trump.


Tearing up Nirwana Bali is no big loss.  And only World 100's it has appeared on are the '14 and '16 Golf Digest (gone from '18) and 2009-2915 Planet Golf (off since then)
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Wayne_Kozun on February 03, 2019, 05:10:03 PM
I thought Nirwana Bali was very good for a course in SE Asia. It was rated -777 in the CG and TD writes “...my co-authors’ favourite course in all of Southeast Asia...”
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Steve_ Shaffer on April 17, 2019, 11:14:05 PM
Here it is!!!! From an email....




Introducing The Cove Club At Cabo Del Sol


The Cove Club is the newest private club and community in the famed Los Cabos Corridor. It is tucked along one of the region's most pristine swimmable beaches, and features the Jack Nicklaus Signature Ocean Course, one of the world's finest golf courses and a members-only private beach club. In addition, the community offers a collection of some of the last and largest oceanfront estates available in Los Cabos, authentically inspired residences and our signature member service program, all with a casual and family-focused vibe. The Cove Club brings to life the passion, fun and wonder of Los Cabos, and will ensure you and your family will share a lifetime of memories.




https://coveclubcabodelsol.com/ (https://coveclubcabodelsol.com/)


https://coveclubcabodelsol.com/residences/# (https://coveclubcabodelsol.com/residences/#)
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Edward Glidewell on April 18, 2019, 04:50:23 PM
So they made the course significantly worse and then made it private?
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Steve_ Shaffer on April 19, 2019, 10:31:29 PM
I don't know if the new course is " significantly worse."  I don't think it's private as some hotels are there. The Cove Club will be private for the homeowners.


https://coveclubcabodelsol.com/club/ (https://coveclubcabodelsol.com/club/)


(https://coveclubcabodelsol.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/cove_map.jpg)
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Edward Glidewell on April 19, 2019, 11:31:12 PM
It's going to be private, at least according to that website. If you go to the golf section it says "
Playing the course will soon be a pleasure reserved solely for members of The Cove Club."
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Steve_ Shaffer on April 20, 2019, 12:09:11 AM



@ Edward Glidewell






" Other features include a luxury-branded resort, "  from The Cove Club page.  Resort guests  will probably have access; otherwise, why would they pay big bucks to stay there?
The key word in your reply is " soon" as the residences are probably being built now and will take some time for completion. In the meantime. I'm sure resort guests will still have access so go there soon if you want to play there.

I'm planning a trip to Diamante Dunes later this year. Maybe I'll try to play CDS again.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Brad Tufts on April 22, 2019, 10:16:29 AM
I love how the "golf" section on the cove club gallery page has a handful of photos of 18 when that hole is being completely removed.


Looks like the current/former #16 is staying, with a new par three built between current/former #15 and #16.  Also looks like current/former #10/#11 will end up underneath a new practice facility.


So in total, former 10/11/17/18 will go.  To make up for the changes, it seems like there will be a reconfigured setup on the current/former front nine, in the area of 5/6/7.  The "community plan" ends at the 8th hole...curious what they will do, as I liked the previously reconfigured 5/6/7.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Tom_Doak on April 22, 2019, 04:23:07 PM
So they made the course significantly worse and then made it private?


They are 30 years behind Castle Harbour, Bermuda!
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Brad Tufts on April 22, 2019, 04:31:51 PM
For sure Tom, although Tucker's isn't very private.


I never played the Castle Harbour version, but I've played TP a couple times, and it's weird, if not horrific.  It's a bandbox at 6200y, and the last time I played it, it was so firm even your layup shots with irons ran out 50 yards into trouble.


I actually liked the redone Belmont by Algie Pulley..it's funky but fun.  I never got to play the Dev Emmet version though.  A couple years ago a local player shot 58 there in one of the Gosling's events!


M-O is a must but pricey, but I guess one can justify putting two rounds worth of greens fees into $300 for one round at M-O.


Anywho, back to CDS...anyone have the lowdown on the reconfigured front nine ocean holes?  Three par threes in a row?  ;D
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Steve_ Shaffer on April 22, 2019, 04:37:08 PM
The Ocean Course will be closed from May 14 to the end of November for the course renovation. In the meantime, here are the rates:


https://www.cabodelsol.com/book-a-tee-time/ (https://www.cabodelsol.com/book-a-tee-time/)




There are 2 hotels on premises that allow resort play.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Greg Tallman on May 13, 2019, 11:58:07 AM
Brad,


The front nine configuration will remain the same though 7 which is currently the cool 135 yard par three with the tee out on the ocean will move back in front of the villas where it was originally. There will be changes to holes...


5 - shortened with green moved well off its current oceanfront location
7 - as noted above
8 - shortened a bit and likely to have green reconfigured (if only to appease Fergal)
9 - moved below its current location to make way for the new entry sequence for the private section of the development to be known as Cove Club as noted in previous posts.


Longer term changes will likely change the numbering sequence with current #1 perhaps being hole 4. Several different possibilities in this regard though.


And today is the swan song for the 18th hole.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Brad Tufts on May 13, 2019, 12:29:45 PM
Wow, interesting...thanks Greg.


I have a great video someplace of Hart Huffines pitching onto the 8th green, and his ball doing a toilet-bowl loop and spin into the front pot bunker, which prompted all of us to burst out laughing.


Seems like the new CDS will be decent if not ocean-infused...and it will probably just be changed again 10-15y down the line.
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Steve_ Shaffer on January 18, 2020, 11:21:24 AM

Re-opened for play and renamed:


https://www.morningread.com/industry-news/release/2020-01-16/cove-club-formerly-the-ocean-course-reopens-at-cabo-del-sol
Title: Re: 17th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean - Gone?
Post by: Trey Kemp on January 19, 2020, 11:40:48 AM
Wow, seeing that photo is sad.  The old 17th was one of my favorite par-3's anywhere.  Glad I got to play and experience it a few times....