Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: James Brown on August 23, 2018, 11:18:19 PM
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The recent thread about elevation changes prompts a question. What’s the longest walk and the hardest walk in golf?
I am going to nominate Potomac Shores in Woodbridge, VA as the longest walk. Must be close to 9 miles.
Hardest walk would be some of the mountain courses at elevation. Cordillera in Vail co es to mind.
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Erin Hills
WW
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Erin Hills is a good one - real windy when I was there.
Bethpage Black — great routing so the distance was bad (though you do cross a road or two) but it was hilly, and HARD. Uphill walk on #18 was brutal after that day.
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For all the talk about Erin Hills, i did not find the walk to be bad at all. To me it is easier stroll than Crystal Downs.
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Back to the tee in a tournament. :(
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For all the talk about Erin Hills, i did not find the walk to be bad at all. To me it is easier stroll than Crystal Downs.
I know it can’t be true but it seemed to me like every green to tee walk at Erin Hills was uphill.
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Erin Hills is a brutal walk, especially in the summer heat.
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Chambers Bay. I did the 72 holes at Bandon back in April, but I haven't been able to do more than 27 at Chambers. I often think about it, but every time I get to the green on 18, I realize I've got nothing left in the tank. Three big hill climbs at 4, 7, and 12/13. What you don't realize is the elevation gain on 8/9tee and 18...until you catch your breath.
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Erin Hills is a brutal walk, especially in the summer heat.
I was recently playing golf with my extended family any my 5 year old niece came along to play with us from 100 yards an it. She got very tired after a few holes and stated "I'm tired, this golf course is too sunny".
No adult would every call a golf course "sunny". But from her perspective, she was used to being on a heavily tree lined parkland course. This course was only spotted with a few trees. And it was true, this course was inherently more "sunny" than her course at home.
It got me thinking, golf courses with trees are easier to walk in most weather; as they provide shade, potential rain cover, and at times wind protection. A walk through a forest is going to be more pleasurable than a walk though a field (with the presence of an ocean changing this). This is probably part of the reason people feel Erin Hills is such a hard walk.
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Royal New Kent
Since it's a museum piece in my view, I don't hold it against the course/designer at all...but it must be almost another full golf course worth of walks between holes...
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I guess a caught EH on a good day. I played last month on day 5 of a 5 day trip and it was my eighth course played. Sunny and warm, but not too humid. I just did not feel the walk was bad, I had a caddie so that definitely helped out. Other than the transition where you take shuttle (like Bandon Trails) I found the walk enjoyable.
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There are some courses that are pretty much impossible for the average guy to walk, but if they weren't designed to be walked at all, I don't see the point of naming them here.
Erin Hills and Chambers Bay are both walking only, and in neither case did it seem like they planned for it.
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Whoops, wrong thread!
Atb
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For all the talk about Erin Hills, i did not find the walk to be bad at all. To me it is easier stroll than Crystal Downs.
I know it can’t be true but it seemed to me like every green to tee walk at Erin Hills was uphill.
This is true in many respects, esp. if playing from the back tees. There are a lot of transitions from greens to tees of the next hole that are uphill -- 2 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 5 esp. if playing the back tees. 14 to 15 is a big walk uphill if playing the back tees. It's a course with a lot of up-and-down walking -- not sure of the total elevation change, but I'd agree with Tom D. that the course esp. from the back tees (which, let's face it, lots of folks want to play, as the course promotes itself as one that hosted the big guns for the U.S. Open) is not well-suited to be walking only.
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Good points Phil. I did not play the back tees, so that helped ease my walk as well.
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Do many people really play the back tees st Erin Hills? There must be more masochists out there than I thought.
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Do many people really play the back tees st Erin Hills? There must be more masochists out there than I thought.
They don't exactly discourage it; from the website:
The course was designed to accommodate the [/size]2017 U.S. Open (https://erinhills.com/2017-us-open/)[/color][/size], in terms of both the challenge to the players and the logistics of the spectators. This mix of traditional and modern elements as well as a championship test will leave many golfers with the feeling that they’ve never played anywhere like Erin Hills.[/color]
[/size][/color]
This unfortunately is one direction I think the game is moving toward -- courses built specifically for hosting majors in today's loosely regulated, bombs-away environment, then turning those courses over to Joe Public who thinks he should be able to measure himself against Brooks Koepka. Happens a lot over there.
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Yale is tricky, back is tough no so front, but doable.
Cherry Valley in NJ - tough walk.
The hardest course I ever walked...................... Morgan Hill in Easton Pa.
You can see it from Rte #78.
Odd thing is, while this course probably should not have been built, there are a few really good and interesting holes. A few unusual greens for a modern course.
Some crazy up and downhill walk holes, to save room for homes.
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I agree with Bill on Yale, one of the most difficult, last time I played I was so tired after walking the front that I switched to a cart on the back
Highland Links in Nova Scotia a very difficult walk in Canada
Nauro in Japan is also super difficult, so much so that they have put in outdoor escalators to help you ascend some hills
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Country Club of the Poconos.
12 wooded, hilly, rugged miles from the 1st tee to 18th green.
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Little Traverse Bay in Northern Michigan. It's an impossible walk. Even a struggle for their gas powered carts.
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I agree with Bill on Yale, one of the most difficult, last time I played I was so tired after walking the front that I switched to a cart on the back
Highland Links in Nova Scotia a very difficult walk in Canada
Nauro in Japan is also super difficult, so much so that they have put in outdoor escalators to help you ascend some hills
John-The inward nine at Yale offers little respite as well with 10,12,17 and 18 all especially tough with uphill climbs required.
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Chambers Bay. I did the 72 holes at Bandon back in April, but I haven't been able to do more than 27 at Chambers. I often think about it, but every time I get to the green on 18, I realize I've got nothing left in the tank. Three big hill climbs at 4, 7, and 12/13. What you don't realize is the elevation gain on 8/9tee and 18...until you catch your breath.
This old codger couldn't do 72 holes anywhere, but I have done 36 at Chambers Bay.
Toughest walk I have done is Oregon Golf Club. It being 100 degrees that day may play some part in my conclusion. However, how many clubs park carts for you to take green to tee, an then return when going the other way?. And, how many courses have long flights of stairs to transition tee to fairway?
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One short course that is a tough walk: Presidio
One really long, hard course that is not a hard walk: Kiawah Island Ocean
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I agree with Bill on Yale, one of the most difficult, last time I played I was so tired after walking the front that I switched to a cart on the back
John-The inward nine at Yale offers little respite as well with 10,12,17 and 18 all especially tough with uphill climbs required.
Another vote here for Yale. As John Sabino highlights, many, many players will walk the front and cart the back nine. Raynor's goal of giving the Yale undergrads a physical workout while playing this course was fully achieved.
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I have never played a course where the walk from a green to the next tee was regularly as long as Erin Hills.
I don't recall Yale being long and difficult at all--but I was younger.
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One short course that is a tough walk: Presidio
One really long, hard course that is not a hard walk: Kiawah Island Ocean
Presidio isn’t too bad, but the 17th hole is a mountain! I’ll nominate both courses at Olympic as tough walks.
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LedgeRock is the toughest course I've ever walked. There are some steep ascents and it's fairly long as well. Walking it regularly to get in shape for Bandon made carrying 36 for 3 days there relatively easy.
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Forest Highlands and Cascata are two that I think are impossible to walk.
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Perhaps the back nine of the Hackett and the Kilgore nine at Carne. Wonderful walk over and around some of Ireland’s largest dunes with spectacular views. Walks like this are to die for (or from😁).
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Perhaps the back nine of the Hackett and the Kilgore nine at Carne. Wonderful walk over and around some of Ireland’s largest dunes with spectacular views. Walks like this are to die for (or from😁).
Back 9 of Hackett is fine IMO. Kilgore not. It is killed by bad green to tee walks.
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Kapalua Plantation Course ;D - Not meant to be walked but you can do it after a couple of mandatory green to tee transfers.
Yale - Yes indeed, not an easy walk. Fascinating to see a Golden Age course that's such a grind.
Tetherow in Bend during the summer - Not an easy walk due to the heat, some long green to tee transfers and climbs from tee to green.
Chambers Bay - Borderline crazy it's walking only . . . A serious work out.
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Forest Highlands and Cascata are two that I think are impossible to walk.
I walked and carried my bag with Tom Weiskopf at Forest Highlands many years ago, when I was younger and more fit. But we did have someone to pick us up from #9 and #18 greens.
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Victory Ranch near Park City, Utah. If a course uses gas powered golf carts instead of battery powered, you know it's going to be a tough slog by foot!
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Erin Hills is by far the hardest walk I’ve done. Seemed like a climb to every tee box. The 95 degree heat (both days) probably played a big part though
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Erin Hills was the last golf course I walked. Uncle Dickie D can attest to the aftermath.
Chambers Bay wasn't too bad if you paced yourself uphill.
What is the distance of Highland Links?
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I do not know why but I did not find Chambers Bay all that challenging to walk...but maybe I was having too much fun playing! Ashamed to say I carted Highland Links....but I reckon that would be a gruelling hike. Australia's Hamilton Island (or Dent Island, if you prefer) is another that I carted and cannot imagine walking.
That said, Old Course at The National (Australia) would get my vote...especially as (I am guessing) 80% of the members walk it. Carting is not as common down here, especially for private club member play. Seniors, ladies....everyone walks it, some , like myself with a bag over their shoulder. Its actually far easier to walk & carry than trying to push or steer a trolley around there.
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I love the course but I found Pikewood in WV to be a very, very challenging walk. And the course was designed as a walking course with not a cart in sight. It's a first order hike.
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I love the course but I found Pikewood in WV to be a very, very challenging walk. And the course was designed as a walking course with not a cart in sight. It's a first order hike.
Played Pikewood a few years ago. Made arrangements to play 36. In the middle of the 2nd round my caddie says, "Nobody does 36 here..." That's about the time I started walking like Lee Trevino. Made sense to me why there were industrial size Gold Bond containers in the locker room.
(https://i.imgur.com/5t1AaJZ.gif)
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I've heard a story that involved Steve Williams jogging the cart path at Kapalua plantation course in under an hour to win a bet.
I'm told by a Tour caddy the course they play in Malaysia is the toughest loop of the year.
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I dont think Yale is an arduous walk at all. Especially not the front.
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There are some courses that are pretty much impossible for the average guy to walk, but if they weren't designed to be walked at all, I don't see the point of naming them here.
Erin Hills and Chambers Bay are both walking only, and in neither case did it seem like they planned for it.
Erin Hills was not walking only in the first few years of operation. I don't know if that impacted the design in any way or not. I do agree that it is a very difficult walk and it was the first course I thought of when reading the OP. There are a number of steep uphill walks to elevated teeing grounds that can really wear on the legs.
I did not find Chambers Bay to be a difficult walk at all. I'm sure the cooler seaside weather played a factor in that.
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Erin Hills was the last golf course I walked. Uncle Dickie D can attest to the aftermath.
Chambers Bay wasn't too bad if you paced yourself uphill.
What is the distance of Highland Links?
Surprised Pete didn't mention Sagebrush where few, if any, attempt to walk.
I didn't attempt the walk. Was concerned about electric golf carts being able to manage the day, and was assured that the cart would run all day. Since electrics have more torque available, I have to wonder why someone suggested having gas carts was an indicator of a tough walk.
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Not sure whether this link relates to core courses that don't have housing on them and are "supposed" to be walked or whether it includes all courses, including those routed around and through housing where cartball is the order of the day.
A few years ago, I played Royal New Kent, Mike Strantz' course near Williamburg. I'm not sure whether the course is still open. I had every intention of walking that day and mentioned it to the pro. He strongly advised me against doing that saying that it was 17 miles from start to finish. The course wandered around a proposed real estate development, none of which had been developed at point.
I can tell you that the pro was right.
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Gold,
17 miles seems very hard to believe, given courses are usually in the 4-6 miles range. Even the longest of courses I've mapped were all under 8.
Its been awhile since I've fired up Google Earth and the distance measuring tool...maybe its time again! ;D
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I guess a caught EH on a good day. I played last month on day 5 of a 5 day trip and it was my eighth course played. Sunny and warm, but not too humid. I just did not feel the walk was bad, I had a caddie so that definitely helped out. Other than the transition where you take shuttle (like Bandon Trails) I found the walk enjoyable.
I don't think it's a difficult walk, necessarily, but the transitions are noticeably long for a course that doesn't really have a reason for long transitions, as in, it doesn't play across a mountain or through a housing development. I did a comparison via Google Maps a couple years ago between EH and my home course (Kingsley), and from the green set of tees, the transitions alone added about half a mile to the walk. I pegged the transitions at about 2,500 yards. Kingsley has fairly short transitions, but that still seems like a lot.
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Its been awhile, so I fired up Google Earth to measure how long Royal New Kent is.
Assuming the golfer attempts to walk, and must traverse around the ravines and creek crossings, but otherwise sticks to fairways...I came up with:
Front 9 - 3.37 miles
Back 9 - 3.55 miles
Total - Just under 7 miles (6.92)
Even adding an additional 10% for a few wayward shots, its still under 8 miles.
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Erin Hills was the last golf course I walked. Uncle Dickie D can attest to the aftermath.
Chambers Bay wasn't too bad if you paced yourself uphill.
What is the distance of Highland Links?
Surprised Pete didn't mention Sagebrush where few, if any, attempt to walk.
I didn't attempt the walk. Was concerned about electric golf carts being able to manage the day, and was assured that the cart would run all day. Since electrics have more torque available, I have to wonder why someone suggested having gas carts was an indicator of a tough walk.
Mentioned it in the elevation thread. Considered mentioning it here, but it didn't meet the criteria of "long" because the tees are mostly close to the previous green:
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I'd say let's ask Schulzie...he's the President of the anti-fat azz cartball club. I know he's walked a few courses I wasn't about to consider walking that were really not made for it. Take Ellerston for example. 110 degrees and 500 yds between some greens and tees. Well it's not that bad but seems like it in that heat.
I didn't find Highlands Links a tough walk at all. Just a couple long sections there that I'm less charmed by than others. Chamber's Bay is a good walk but not a tough walk unless you are flatlander and not use to walking up hills at all.
My vote for tough walks would go to Royal Hague when playing the back tees. I've had a few guests out there just quite on me. It's a walking only course as well unless you have a note from your doctor. Also Noordwjikse is a very tough walk from the back tees as you constantly are walking back to the tee and up a dune on many occasions.
Guess we have to exclude the made for cartball courses to be fair. I wouldn't quickly want to walk the likes of Quivera in Cabo or Finca Cortesin in Spain.
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Country Club of the Poconos.
12 wooded, hilly, rugged miles from the 1st tee to 18th green.
Mike,
That's the damndest routing I think I've ever seen. Looks insane.
However, Google Maps puts it at 8.5 miles, which is still pretty crazy. Longest course I've ever mapped....
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A few years ago, I played Royal New Kent, Mike Strantz' course near Williamburg. I'm not sure whether the course is still open. I had every intention of walking that day and mentioned it to the pro. He strongly advised me against doing that...
I can tell you that the pro was right.
Reminds me of a similar conversation at another Strantz course, Tot Hill. I walked the front...and rode the back.