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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: MCirba on April 07, 2018, 06:03:08 PM

Title: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MCirba on April 07, 2018, 06:03:08 PM
Is there a more pretentious, patronizing term for an audience of spectators at a sporting event anywhere?


It doesn't even have the charm of being anachronistic because until recently no one would be self-importantly haughty enough to come up with such an idiotic term.


Thank you.  That feels better.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: John Kavanaugh on April 07, 2018, 06:14:55 PM
Beats deplorables. But seriously, I feel for anyone who doesn't love everything about this tournament unconditionally. If only work, marriage and faith had something that brings such a sense of renewal that the Masters gives to golf every spring.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Terry Lavin on April 07, 2018, 06:17:27 PM
Then there’s the second cut.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Ian Galbraith on April 07, 2018, 06:17:33 PM
Is there a more pretentious, patronizing term for an audience of spectators at a sporting event anywhere?


It doesn't even have the charm of being anachronistic because until recently no one would be self-importantly haughty enough to come up with such an idiotic term.


Thank you.  That feels better.


More than the organisers wishing to call their spectators patrons, what grates is the slavish adoption of this silly term by all the media bods. Scared to lose their accreditation for next year I perhaps.  ::)
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Steve_ Shaffer on April 07, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
Dear Mr. Cirba,

You are hereby forever banned from the grounds of Augusta National Golf Club as a guest of a member or as a patron of The Masters Tournament.


Fred Ridley, Chairman
Augusta National Golf Club
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Jon Wiggett on April 07, 2018, 06:32:23 PM
Its just the old fashioned way of saying customer Mike. I have no problem with the word or it being used. I will give you the point that the organiser's insistence on it's use comes across as been a bit silly though.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MClutterbuck on April 07, 2018, 06:32:29 PM
patron
ˈpeɪtr(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
a person who gives financial or other support to a person, organization, or cause.
2.
a customer of a shop, restaurant, etc., especially a regular one.

"Especially a regular one" ... Do they want to emphasize in 1 word the privilege badge holders have in being able to return year after year?
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Bill Gayne on April 07, 2018, 06:45:40 PM
Is there a more pretentious, patronizing term for an audience of spectators at a sporting event anywhere?


"Hello friends" and today's "welcome friends." You can go to Vineyard Vines and buy the "Hello Friends" line of clothing. There's no logical reason I should care about Jim Nantz's cliched greeting.


I'm good with "patrons" and would even put it on the like side.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Peter Pallotta on April 07, 2018, 06:52:19 PM
Mike -
I understand: they can take the boy out of the 60s, but they can't take the 60s out of the boy.
But I suppose it's not so much what "patrons" are as what they're not.
They're not "fans", which is merely a ghastly abbreviation away from "fanatics".
They're not "guests", and thus are definitionally unable to overstay their welcome.
They're not "customers", what with the tawdry profit-motive the word implies, and the messiness involved in "consuming" anything save for a crust-less sandwich wedge.
"Ticket-holders" have the nasty habit of standing on the rights and privileges conferred to them upon purchase of said ticket -- and this, of course, can't possibly be allowed.
And, despite what Jim Nantz might suggest in moments of poetic licence, they're certainly not "friends" -- a presumptuous and uncouth brand of familiarity that the founding fathers would've frowned upon, vigourously.
In short, we must let the Jimmy Roberts of the world continue to intone the word "patron" -- our only satisfaction in knowing that our grandchildren, watching the broadcasts in some 2040 version of you-tube, will snicker and roll their eyes at the conceit.
     
 
 
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Jim Nugent on April 07, 2018, 07:00:00 PM
To ANGC they are like patrons of the arts. 
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: corey miller on April 07, 2018, 07:06:34 PM



Have they always been "patrons"?


I am still working on the NFL imposed mandate that the media call "exhibition" games "pre-season" as if that makes them more meaningful. 
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Bill Gayne on April 07, 2018, 07:15:11 PM
I was told today that "Dilly Dilly" is verboten at the Masters.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Greg Smith on April 07, 2018, 08:12:24 PM
Heck, the Masters is SUPPOSED to be pretentious!  If there isn't allowed to be pretension within the grounds of Augusta National, just where can it exist anywhere else on planet Earth?

I say let er rip and just let the pretensions flow.  I actually kind of like the over the top elitism in this day and age of political correctness and egalitarianism.

The day I get to be a patron at the Masters is by definition a great day.   It's the last place to hide from democracy run amok.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 07, 2018, 08:23:24 PM
Heck, the Masters is SUPPOSED to be pretentious!  If there isn't allowed to be pretension within the grounds of Augusta National, just where can it exist anywhere else on planet Earth?

I say let er rip and just let the pretensions flow.  I actually kind of like the over the top elitism in this day and age of political correctness and egalitarianism.

The day I get to be a patron at the Masters is by definition a great day.   It's the last place to hide from democracy run amok.


Greg,


That's just terrific.  The 2018 Masters, co-hosted by Kim Jung un and Vlad Putin...cause democracy is overrated!


Perfect!!
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Joe Hancock on April 07, 2018, 08:24:03 PM
I’m with Bill G.. I’ll gladly hear the term “patron” by whomever vs. shouts of “you da man” or “mashed potatoes”, which really seems to be the cause and effect here. The behavior by the “patrons” is unmatched in golf, in the most positive sense.


Thank you, Masters Commitees past, present and future.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Ira Fishman on April 07, 2018, 08:42:00 PM
Patron is patronizing elitism. And we wonder why more Americans do not play golf. I really enjoy the Masters for the golf, but all the rest reeks of the Lost Cause and not in a positive way.


Ira
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Ronald Montesano on April 07, 2018, 09:26:15 PM
They are mispronouncing it. they mean to say "patron" as in the tequila. Every one of them is a tequila.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: mike_beene on April 08, 2018, 12:51:54 AM
You can dress this up all you want, but the image of Verne Lunquist hosting a local game show called Bowling for Dollars ruins the whole thing. I pull for him to say things like today's Dustin Thomas. He may be the only guest at Patrick Reeds victory party.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Ken Moum on April 08, 2018, 01:24:11 AM
According to Golf Digest:


The use of the word traces to Clifford Roberts, Augusta National’s co-founder with Bobby Jones, who sought to distinguish spectators at the Masters because he saw them as more than butts in seats, but consumers of an experience—no different than regular patrons of a restaurant or an opera.[/size]“Roberts really did feel that it was the spectators who made the Masters possible—hence patrons,” says David Owen, author of the definitive history of Augusta National, The Making Of The Masters. “He wanted to remind everyone involved in the tournament that the focus had to be on constantly improving the experience for the people watching.”[/color]
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Eric Smith on April 08, 2018, 07:57:11 AM
If I started taking piano lessons I reckon the first song I’d try to learn is the CBS Sports Masters theme. Just so I could vape to it and post the video on the JC Likes Men WhatsApp thread.


The whole schmeer is what makes it unique in the world of golf.


It does annoy me that Peter Kostis says  “judge” more than Porterhouse.


A 63 from Tommy Fleetwood could go a long way today.


Harbour Town weather looks perfect next weekend.



Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Tom_Doak on April 08, 2018, 11:03:48 AM
I was told today that "Dilly Dilly" is verboten at the Masters.


I'd read that at the start of the week, but I read another article today that says it's not so ... it's just Budweiser leveraging its ad campaign for more free attention.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Greg Beaulieu on April 08, 2018, 04:33:11 PM
I've been churning through the Youtube archive of Masters final rounds and have not encountered the first year that "patrons" was used so far. To date I'm through 1990 with zero patrons, lots of "crowds" and "galleries" though.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Ian Galbraith on April 08, 2018, 05:47:59 PM
and in a similar vein when did they start so religiously referring to the venue as "Augusta National" rather than just Augusta..one word too many in most sentences.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Dan Kelly on April 08, 2018, 05:52:32 PM
I heard a new one (to me) this week: “tournament practice area.”


Really, I don’t much care if they are called patrons or galleries or crowds. I don’t care if it is rough or second cut.


The only thing that bugs me is that the club apparently enforces its language dictates. Do they really think these announcers are gonna be disrespectful, if they are allowed to speak freely?
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: BHoover on April 08, 2018, 06:07:32 PM
I heard a grandstand or bleachers referred to as a “patron observation area”.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Tommy Williamsen on April 08, 2018, 06:16:05 PM
Hard to believe anyone would even discuss something so meaningless. Patron is a nice respectful term.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Edward Glidewell on April 08, 2018, 06:22:04 PM
and in a similar vein when did they start so religiously referring to the venue as "Augusta National" rather than just Augusta..one word too many in most sentences.


I know no one would be confused, but I still think it's good they call it Augusta National since there's an Augusta Country Club right next door.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Joe Hancock on April 08, 2018, 07:50:32 PM
I heard a new one (to me) this week: “tournament practice area.”


Really, I don’t much care if they are called patrons or galleries or crowds. I don’t care if it is rough or second cut.


The only thing that bugs me is that the club apparently enforces its language dictates. Do they really think these announcers are gonna be disrespectful, if they are allowed to speak freely?


It’s interesting to me, what people will find to criticize. As my wife and I were watching today’s broadcast, I mused that it would be interesting to hear a sociologist or psychologist explain why the “patrons” behave so much better at “Augusta National” than at any other golf venue course during the year. Is it because the club actually posts the rules that they want to enforce, and then they enforce them without caving to squeeky-wheel types? I don’t know the answer, but it’s my favorite tournament to watch all year, on a human behavior level especially.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: John Kavanaugh on April 08, 2018, 08:02:18 PM
Anyone who knows a patron who owns a set of tickets to the event every year knows why they and the people they allow to use the badges behaves. Being a lifetime badge holder for the Masters elevates your status in the community. It would hurt deeply to lose that status. They are therefore more than just a fan or a guy who attends a game. They are stewards of something near and dear to most golfers heart. Holding that responsibility earns the right to be called a patron.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Joe Hancock on April 08, 2018, 08:33:13 PM
Anyone who knows a patron who owns a set of tickets to the event every year knows why they and the people they allow to use the badges behaves. Being a lifetime badge holder for the Masters elevates your status in the community. It would hurt deeply to lose that status. They are therefore more than just a fan or a guy who attends a game. They are stewards of something near and dear to most golfers heart. Holding that responsibility earns the right to be called a patron.


Dear Mrs. Kavanaugh,


Thank you for your insightful post. Please pass along to John that, while we would miss him around here, he would be wise to let you do the posting for him from here on out.


Regards,


Joe
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Peter Pallotta on April 08, 2018, 08:52:49 PM
You know what I know about golf course architecture?
Nothing.
I know nothing about it -- especially in terms of how it actually "works".
I love "theory" -- but the gulf between theory and "practice" in gca is wider than in any other art-craft I know.
And in terms of the practice, I know next to nothing.
For example, how can it be that, after all these years and after all the changes/lengthening and 2nd cut and tree-planting, the architecture at Augusta "works" in exactly the same way it did in 1986, and in just about every year since then:
The final (4th round, winning) score seems always just about the *same* as what the 3rd round leader had -- i.e. the architecture somehow causes the leaders to shoot around even par *while at the same time* allowing the pursuers to shoot 65s.
How the heck does architecture/design do that?
Sure, sure - I know the "theory" about how it does it, but scratch the surface of that theory just a little and you see that it doesn't hold up.
The "practice" is all, and as i said, I now know I know nothing about it.
I'm sure glad spring is finally coming; I can go play golf instead.   

Peter
PS - I sure do like peace and quiet and a respectful/charitable attitude, and interpersonal relationships and group dynamics based on and characterize by mutual good will and kind regard -- but I think I'd rather have an unruly (human) freedom than a polite peace that's based on (rule-bound) fear....
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 08, 2018, 09:00:20 PM
John and Joe,


Nice spin, and while I don't doubt most of the "patrons" are actually well behaved just like most other "fans" at other tournaments, the only thing keeping the yahoos in check at ANGC is fear of losing their badge..no one wants to be the guy who blew that gig....
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Joe Hancock on April 08, 2018, 09:02:29 PM
Kalen,


Rules without consequence aren’t really rules. Humans think they don’t like rules until they don’t have any.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MCirba on April 08, 2018, 09:04:09 PM
I've thought about your well-stated, thoughtful objections to my post and would simply state in defense that I have no more instinctive ability not to cringe when hearing thousands of bellowing people's cheers echoing through the pines referred to as "patrons" than I do when someone uses fingernails across a chalkboard.   

I do agree we have more important matters to discuss such as "first cut" and the proliferation of trees across the property.   ;D

Perhaps it's simply the unrelenting reach of winter into Masters week in the northeast, so that's my last defense.  Now, back to writing my IMO piece on Walter Travis and Charles Blair Macdonald, which is coming along nicely.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Garland Bayley on April 08, 2018, 09:05:00 PM
Hard to believe anyone would even discuss something so meaningless. Patron is a nice respectful term.

Given the history of the club, I don't know how nice it is.
The club membership, at least in the early days, used the club to escape home life in NYC, and be patrons of the Augusta ladies of the evening.

So "patron viewing area" can be thought to be quite salacious. ;)
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: John Kavanaugh on April 08, 2018, 09:22:04 PM
Last week I was in a revolving door with my wife and daughter when I decided to stop the door and rip a rather loud fart. It was neither planned or on the basis of 35 years of marriage a very smart choice. Yet for reasons I doubt any of us could explain or my wife would ever admit we had a good giggle as we entered a rather tony hotel. You see, there is a time and place for everything and acting stupidly at the Masters is neither the time nor place. It has nothing to do with fear of penalty or worry of being cast out of the temple. It's in our gut and every gut of anyone who loves the game. It, much like when to pass gas is at the core of our beings.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Peter Pallotta on April 08, 2018, 09:25:14 PM
Good post JK.
But I think they used to call that 'idolatry'.
You know: graven images, and all that
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: John Kavanaugh on April 08, 2018, 09:30:01 PM
Good post JK.
But I think they used to call that 'idolatry'.
You know: graven images, and all that


I'm sure you've seen the movie The Ten Commandments. When Moses was on the mountain and his people molded the golden calf they partied like Waste Management was footing the bill. Funny, both parties take place in the desert.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Peter Pallotta on April 08, 2018, 09:39:03 PM
I enjoy playing Martin to your Lewis - always good posts.
But if the world's most peaceful and reverential place has become Augusta National in April, I think I'll retire to Bedlam (or Pheonix)
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Peter Flory on April 08, 2018, 10:57:31 PM
I did notice that in his speech, Reed did refer to them as fans. 
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Sven Nilsen on April 08, 2018, 11:07:30 PM
Opening your gates for one week a year only emphasizes the fact you're patronizing your patrons.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: jeffwarne on April 08, 2018, 11:50:44 PM
[quote author=Kalen Braley link=topic=65781.msg1570446#msg1570446 date=1523235620


 the only thing keeping the yahoos in check at ANGC is fear of losing their badge..no one wants to be the guy who blew that gig....


end quote



While you or I have no idea whether that's true or not, does it really matter? Given that it eliminates the knuckleheads that ruin PGA Tour events?


At The Masters the worst dressed, and worst groomed people are inside the ropes.
When did playing in skinny jean pajamas become a thing?

Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Garland Bayley on April 09, 2018, 12:03:20 AM
...
When did playing in skinny jean pajamas become a thing?
:D LOL
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: mike_beene on April 09, 2018, 12:52:17 AM
Perhaps it is time for us to all read once again the short essay George Orwell entitled Politics and the English Language
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Mike Hendren on April 09, 2018, 09:27:26 AM
In 1888, we note in the San Francisco Examiner that before Flynn lets drive a single to the wonderment of all and Jimmy Blake, the much despised tears the cover off the ball,  "The outlook was brilliant for the Mudville nine that day:  The score stood four to two, with but one inning more to play.  And then when Cooney died at first, and Barrows did the same, a sickly silence fell upon the patrons of the game."

Haters gonna hate.

Bogey

Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Tim Martin on April 09, 2018, 09:47:59 AM
[quote author=Kalen Braley link=topic=65781.msg1570446#msg1570446 date=1523235620


 the only thing keeping the yahoos in check at ANGC is fear of losing their badge..no one wants to be the guy who blew that gig....


end quote



While you or I have no idea whether that's true or not, does it really matter? Given that it eliminates the knuckleheads that ruin PGA Tour events?


At The Masters the worst dressed, and worst groomed people are inside the ropes.
When did playing in skinny jean pajamas become a thing?


Jeff-It must be sheer coincidence that pajamas have become de rigeuer at IHOP, Waffle House and Denny’s as well. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked that societal norms seem to take shape at places that serve breakfast sausage. It won’t be long until patrons show up en masse ordering sausage biscuits wearing all manner of PJ’s skinny or not.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kyle Harris on April 09, 2018, 10:05:43 AM
At The Masters the worst dressed, and worst groomed people are inside the ropes.
When did playing in skinny jean pajamas become a thing?

Since at least the 18th Century:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/The_MacDonald_boys_playing_golf.jpg/800px-The_MacDonald_boys_playing_golf.jpg)

Can we please dispense with the "THESE ARBITRARY 20 YEAR PERIODS OF GOLF HISTORY ARE TRADITION NARRRRR!" trope and let the game evolve as it has for the past 500 years?
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MClutterbuck on April 09, 2018, 10:09:10 AM
I heard a new one (to me) this week: “tournament practice area.”



This is actually accurate, since the member driving range is not used for the Masters tournament, and (with exceptions) vice versa.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MClutterbuck on April 09, 2018, 10:11:10 AM
To ANGC they are like patrons of the arts.


Maybe those buying corporate passes, but not the regular badge holders that get theirs well below market value...
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Peter Pallotta on April 09, 2018, 10:12:33 AM
What a preternaturally mature-looking young golfer we have there - a determined and clear-eyed champion if I ever saw one, and remarkably unconcerned about his rather archaic ten-fingered grip. (He looks a bit like a young Henrik Stenson). Has found himself in a spot of trouble -- though he does have plenty of room between those trees, if he can only get enough loft off a tight lie to get over that (very penal) water feature... 
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 09, 2018, 12:17:08 PM
Jeff,


Fully agreed.  I was really only offering a rebuttal to the absurdity that ANGC patrons are somehow different than every other fan base at every other golf tournament in the world.


Maybe every tournament should try the season ticket holders approach and then every week can be Masters week with hushed tones and bow your head reverence... Scottsdale being the exception!  ;D
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Mark Kiely on April 09, 2018, 03:39:14 PM
All I know is this: I'll take "patrons" a million times over not one, but TWO Imagine Dragons lyric references from Faldo while the tournament is concluding on the 18th green Sunday afternoon.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Greg Beaulieu on April 09, 2018, 06:00:22 PM
All I know is this: I'll take "patrons" a million times over not one, but TWO Imagine Dragons lyric references from Faldo while the tournament is concluding on the 18th green Sunday afternoon.

Those dragons flew right over my head as I have no idea what Imagine Dragons is.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: jeffwarne on April 09, 2018, 09:19:12 PM
At The Masters the worst dressed, and worst groomed people are inside the ropes.
When did playing in skinny jean pajamas become a thing?

Since at least the 18th Century:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/The_MacDonald_boys_playing_golf.jpg/800px-The_MacDonald_boys_playing_golf.jpg)

Can we please dispense with the "THESE ARBITRARY 20 YEAR PERIODS OF GOLF HISTORY ARE TRADITION NARRRRR!" trope and let the game evolve as it has for the past 500 years?



Great pic Kyle,
The 70's weren't exactly great either...


I stood on the first tee at ANGC for several hours Friday-jaw agape at many of the outfits-noteably the grey Nike skinny jean gym trousers many of their staffers were wearing while being greeted and announced by the Green Coated men of Augusta.


There are some things grownups do when at a special place or occasion-and many were appropriately and respectfully attired for such an occasion, while also honoring a sense of indivisual fashion. (Poulter and a few others looked particularly dapper)


RE:evolution
I find it ironic that as mankind evolves generally for the better, that golfers should accept dumbing down to the lowest common denominator.
I find it quite refreshing that as Augusta evolves generally for the better, that they do stringently resist dumbing themselves and their Patrons down to that same lower common denominator.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Pat Alpaugh on April 09, 2018, 09:38:59 PM
Completely in agreement, Mr. Cirba.  Hate the term.  I read that Dan Jenkins refused to use it.  Didn't seem to hurt him.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: John Kavanaugh on April 09, 2018, 09:48:30 PM
Did any guests go on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson and not show the proper respect that was unspoken yet deserved? And yes I have been to the Sistine Chapel. and despite the fact that God's ass is on full display, for the first recorded time in history, decorum ruled the day. Not as much as I would have liked, but enough just the same.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Terry Lavin on April 09, 2018, 11:14:20 PM
I don’t like the term, either. But I loved being a patron. I even wrote an article in Golfweek about my experience maybe a dozen years ago.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 10, 2018, 11:24:42 AM
Jeff,


I'll have to disagree on that one.


There are some of us who still espouse that what we do, what we stand for, and the content of character is far more important than what we wear or how our hair is cut.


But i'm not surprised a place like The Masters put so much focus on outward appearances...
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: jeffwarne on April 10, 2018, 12:32:59 PM
Jeff,


I'll have to disagree on that one.


There are some of us who still espouse that what we do, what we stand for, and the content of character is far more important than what we wear or how our hair is cut.


But i'm not surprised a place like The Masters put so much focus on outward appearances...


Kalen,
Those were my words-not the words of "The Masters"


In this case you are disagreeing with me-not them, perectly fine.


I agree 100% with your statement about "what we stand for, and the content of our character being far more important than what we wear or how our hair is cut."


But I wouldn't show up at your daughter's wedding in wrinkled pajama pants, regardless of how much my clothing company was paying me to promote them, and I would not show up with two days of inconsistent scruffy growth on my face.
Because while you still wouldn't know for sure what I stood for or my character, you'd at least know I had made the choice, and taken the time- to respect the occasion outwardly.









Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kyle Harris on April 10, 2018, 12:39:03 PM
The best and most friendly service-person I've ever seen or met has four neck tattoos and several facial piercings.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 10, 2018, 12:43:17 PM
Jeff,


Jesus allegedly wandered around in a dirty robe and sandals with scruffy beard and long hair....there's no doubt he would certainly be banned from the hallowed grounds of Augusta.


And I can't think of a more revered/respected/worshiped person in America!  ;)



Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Garland Bayley on April 10, 2018, 12:45:26 PM
Jeff,


Jesus allegedly wandered around in a dirty robe and sandals with scruffy beard and long hair....there's no doubt he would certainly be banned from the hallowed grounds of Augusta.


And I can't think of a more revered/respected/worshiped person in America!  ;)

Undoubtedly, an eye witness report. ;D
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: jeffwarne on April 10, 2018, 12:55:10 PM
The best and most friendly service-person I've ever seen or met has four neck tattoos and several facial piercings.


None of which I would expect them to remove to play in The Masters or attend Kalen's big event.


However if they showed up in skinny jeans I might draw the line :)
says the only guy left with pleated pants :)


and Kalen, There's no dress code for Patrons at ANGC-Jesus would be just fine.  From your description, he'd be better dressed and groomed than many of the players...though his 380 yard drives wouldn't stand out anymore.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 10, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
The best and most friendly service-person I've ever seen or met has four neck tattoos and several facial piercings.


None of which I would expect them to remove to play in The Masters or attend Kalen's big event.


However if they showed up in skinny jeans I might draw the line :)
says the only guy left with pleated pants :)


and Kalen, There's no dress code for Patrons at ANGC-Jesus would be just fine.  From your description, he'd be better dressed and groomed than many of the players...though his 380 yard drives wouldn't stand out anymore.


Jeff, Funny stuff!!  ;D   ;D


Him and the Dalai Lama would be quite the match.  Jesus wouldn't even need the bridge on 12 and I'm pretty sure they both would have avoided the trees on 18!



Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: jeffwarne on April 10, 2018, 01:17:41 PM
The best and most friendly service-person I've ever seen or met has four neck tattoos and several facial piercings.


None of which I would expect them to remove to play in The Masters or attend Kalen's big event.


However if they showed up in skinny jeans I might draw the line :)
says the only guy left with pleated pants :)


and Kalen, There's no dress code for Patrons at ANGC-Jesus would be just fine.  From your description, he'd be better dressed and groomed than many of the players...though his 380 yard drives wouldn't stand out anymore.


Jeff, Funny stuff!!  ;D   ;D


Him and the Dalai Lama would be quite the match.  Jesus wouldn't even need the bridge on 12 and I'm pretty sure they both would have avoided the trees on 18!


Kalen,
They wouldn't get to 18.
The Dalai Lama would grant Jesus Total Conciousness on 16 after he skipped himself across the water and led 3 and 2.
[size=78%]Jesus would then perform another miracle and the water in the 19th would be changed to wine and consumed until all were conviced the Dalai Lama had eeked out a 1 up win. [/size]

After which, they would have collaborated to perform another miracle and fix the GCA font!
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MCirba on April 10, 2018, 01:37:59 PM
By the way, I should mention that I was a "patron" during a 2005 Practice Round where I watched Tiger Woods go Eagle/Eagle on 8 and 9 and then walk into the clubhouse, evidently having perfected his game at the time.
 
The whole tournament was a class act, so I'm not a Masters hater by a long shot, although I'd love to see less trees, more brown, and less need to elongate the course year after year.   

But I wasn't there to "patronize" the tournament, the club, the players or anything else.

I was there to view the magical golf course.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Peter Pallotta on April 10, 2018, 01:55:36 PM
Jeff, Kalen - I think you're on to something. So many resonances:


The cleek shall inherit the earth (or at least its modern day equivalent, the 3 hybrid)
Blessed are the par-makers (in most years, good enough to make the cut)
Consider the past-champions in the field, they toil not (and so rarely stumble through Amen Corner) 


See, there's always something to learn from the Masters...
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: mike_beene on April 12, 2018, 12:49:23 AM
There was an old joke in there somewhere: That's Jesus over there walking across the pond but he tried to hit 2 iron; who does he think he is?Arnold Palmer?
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Rich Goodale on April 12, 2018, 05:39:53 AM
If there is a movie to be made based on Christ the Golfer jokes, Tommy Fleetwood would be ideal for the starring role.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: mike_beene on April 12, 2018, 11:29:23 PM
Patrick Reed has Judas pretty much locked down.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Cal Seifert on April 12, 2018, 11:31:24 PM
Id rather have patrons then whatever the fans at the WM are.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Tim Leahy on April 13, 2018, 12:14:04 AM
Id rather have patrons then whatever the fans at the WM are.
[/quote
Drunk?
I will bet the beer is cheaper at the Masters.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Jeff Schley on April 13, 2018, 03:17:06 AM
If there is a movie to be made based on Christ the Golfer jokes, Tommy Fleetwood would be ideal for the starring role.

Indeed, I was thinking the same thing, especially after it just being Easter.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: William_G on April 13, 2018, 05:57:40 AM
By the way, I should mention that I was a "patron" during a 2005 Practice Round where I watched Tiger Woods go Eagle/Eagle on 8 and 9 and then walk into the clubhouse, evidently having perfected his game at the time.
 
The whole tournament was a class act, so I'm not a Masters hater by a long shot, although I'd love to see less trees, more brown, and less need to elongate the course year after year.   

But I wasn't there to "patronize" the tournament, the club, the players or anything else.

I was there to view the magical golf course.

clearly you were there to take something for yourself

whereas that is not what makes attending the Masters special

being a patron of something may not appropriate for some folks

creating something that is singularly unique is what the members of ANGC have achieved like it or not

cheers
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MCirba on April 13, 2018, 11:22:19 AM

clearly you were there to take something for yourself

whereas that is not what makes attending the Masters special

being a patron of something may not appropriate for some folks

creating something that is singularly unique is what the members of ANGC have achieved like it or not

cheers

William,

Yes, everyone else is there as a shared personal sacrifice to the greater glory.   Ask not what The Masters can do for you, but what you can do for The Masters!   

Sure.  ;)
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 13, 2018, 12:07:07 PM
Mike,


I was thinking the same.  Nothing like good old religious "obey your masters and behave.... or else" to keep the flock in line!


I gave that part of my life up years ago, no interest in going back!  ;)


P.S.  If the green jackets really trust thier devout "patrons", why impose so many rules on them...
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Joe Hancock on April 13, 2018, 04:55:09 PM
Kalen,


 I assume you have never attended a Masters Tournament. You won’t find people there against their will, nor will you find anyone grumbling about all those imposing rules that you assume ruin the whole experience for them. On the contrary, you find a lot of people who love golf, love the settting, and are grateful to be there....not only in spite of the rules, but because of them.


If you’re so set against rules, how do you feel about Ran’s stated rules of behavior as a guest of his on this discussion board? I don’t see how one is OK, but not the other... unless it is some other issue you have with ANGC and The Masters.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 13, 2018, 05:05:57 PM
Joe,


I've never been and knowing its next to impossible to get tickets, I'm pretty sure I never will!  But what you described could be just as easily said about someone going to the local church on Sunday.  Presumably no one is forcing them, and if asked most will claim to love going and be grateful to be there.  But I don't think thats really so for church goers cause the data suggests otherwise....


P.S.  I like being here.  The discussion is good and the friendships even better.  And I understand I am a guest and choose to refrain from the issues Ran has setup as guidelines.  But unlike those church going folk or Masters "patrons", the difference is Ran isn't holding something over my head to keep me in line. If he chose to revoke my membership I would still read along on most threads just like now.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Kalen Braley on April 13, 2018, 05:11:23 PM

The fact that the Patrons resell thier badges for certain days and time slots, in direct violation of the rules....enough so that the Masters is supposedly going to start cracking down on it, tells me everything I need to know in terms of "is anybody watching"....


https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2018/3/27/augusta-national-cracking-down-on-third-party-market-invalidating-some-credentials


Don't get me wrong, I don't care one bit if they do it or not....its the implicit message that Masters "Patrons" are different or above it all that is the nauseating part...
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: corey miller on April 13, 2018, 05:23:38 PM



I think the term Patrons is a goof but if the Masters think it makes people more civil in the way they act at the Tourney I am all for it.


Not sure how any of this has to do with going to church or temple or mosque but would think Kalen follows whatever innane rules or decorum set down at the clubs he plays at.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Sven Nilsen on April 14, 2018, 11:20:49 AM



but if the Masters think


This little grammatical slip up is hysterical.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: jeffwarne on April 15, 2018, 09:31:20 AM
Kalen,


 I assume you have never attended a Masters Tournament. You won’t find people there against their will, nor will you find anyone grumbling about all those imposing rules that you assume ruin the whole experience for them. On the contrary, you find a lot of people who love golf, love the settting, and are grateful to be there....not only in spite of the rules, but because of them.




+1
There's not one policy there that doesn't make the experience BETTER-including and especially-NO CELL PHONES.(and for those who can't stomach that-there are FREE phone stations all around the course where you can call toll FREE anywhere in the world)
Everything is set up to enhance the experience, and you can't go 100 yards without an employee wishing you well with a smile on their face.
It's unlike ANY sporting event  where they genuinely appreciate the patrons, rather than treat them like cattle like virtually every other major sporting event.(most of which I've long ago given up attending)


I've watched 30 seconds of the RBC this week (I was focused yesterday on watching the PGAtourchampions where my High School teammate Scott Parel lost in a playoff)
During that 30 seconds I heard two incredibly boorish drunken Bubba-booeys and Get in the Hole!-timed incredibly close to the players downswing.
Enough for a quick mute but pure noise pollution for those bothering to attend live.


Golf,The Masters,and evidently religion.... are not for everyone.
That's OK.
I'm all for welcoming and inclusion, but not for "growing the game" by dumbing down to the lowest common denominator.


I do find it ironic that despite all the "onerous restrictive" supposed rules for "patrons" at Augusta, a 4 day series badge goes for $10,000 at resale and a practice round is $600-$1000, while a Sunday badge at iconic Shinnecock in the playground of some of the wealthiest people in the world is available in spades on stub-hub for $100.....
But I guess be able to yell Bubba-Booey is worth something....

Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Rees Milikin on April 15, 2018, 09:43:33 AM
Mike,


I was thinking the same.  Nothing like good old religious "obey your masters and behave.... or else" to keep the flock in line!


I gave that part of my life up years ago, no interest in going back!  ;)


P.S.  If the green jackets really trust thier devout "patrons", why impose so many rules on them...


Rebel without a cause
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Tim Martin on April 15, 2018, 10:47:44 AM
The idea that decorum somehow takes away from the experience is ill conceived. There's not a better day to be had in golf or the world of sport than to be a "patron" at the Masters. They continue to find ways to hone the tooniment on a yearly basis when you didnt think it could get any better.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MCirba on April 15, 2018, 12:38:36 PM
Gentlemen, Gentlemen...I doth beseech thee...

I doth believe you present a false choice.   Either embrace the offensive, cringe-worthy term that is oozing with pretension, bowing to embrace all of it's condescending implications, or hand the world over to the unleashed beastly iterations of our lesser selves, with barbarians storming the gates, chanting, "Verily, verily, Baba Booey You Da Man!"   

Surely we can have both, can we not?   Are we not reasonable men?   This is not an either/or proposition and one can forsake one without the other falling into ruin.

Pray tell?
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Joe Hancock on April 15, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
Gentlemen, Gentlemen...I doth beseech thee...

I doth believe you present a false choice.   Either embrace the offensive, cringe-worthy term that is oozing with pretension, bowing to embrace all of it's condescending implications, or hand the world over to the unleashed beastly iterations of our lesser selves, with barbarians storming the gates, chanting, "Verily, verily, Baba Booey You Da Man!"   

Surely we can have both, can we not?   Are we not reasonable men?   This is not an either/or proposition and one can forsake one without the other falling into ruin.

Pray tell?


Double standard, perhaps? In that if we can have both, why the thread? Explain thyself, knave!
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Lou_Duran on April 15, 2018, 12:53:20 PM
They continue to find ways to hone the tooniment on a yearly basis when you didnt think it could get any better.

We were talking during this difficult winter about the Masters and how the club and the tournament are aspirational.  In golf as in life, change is a constant.  Things are nearly always getting better or worse.  Maybe those of us who normally play on courses that just appear to be treading water can more greatly appreciate the impetus for improvement and the attention to detail that is well-exemplified by the leadership of ANGC.  Personally, I find the term "patron" respectful and considerate.  Perhaps it elicits a higher standard of behavior in return.  Is that bad?  Me, as the saying goes, I care much more that they call me than what they call me.  Looking forward to 2019!
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: MCirba on April 15, 2018, 01:39:20 PM

Double standard, perhaps? In that if we can have both, why the thread? Explain thyself, knave!

Behead that man!
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Stuart Hallett on April 15, 2018, 03:14:02 PM

As with any major sporting event, what bothers me is the "Veni, vidi, vici" Got the teeshirt mentality. An aquaintance showed me photos of a friend posting photos of masters tickets on FB, how sad. I refuse to be a part of this circus, and most major events have become headline actors over the years. Absolute snobbery may I say. Lucky for me, TV coverage is very good  :)
Ryder Cup 2018 in my living room despite invites from interested people.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Tim Martin on April 15, 2018, 03:21:01 PM

As with any major sporting event, what bothers me is the "Veni, vidi, vici" Got the teeshirt mentality. An aquaintance showed me photos of a friend posting photos of masters tickets on FB, how sad. I refuse to be a part of this circus, and most major events have become headline actors over the years. Absolute snobbery may I say. Lucky for me, TV coverage is very good  :)
Ryder Cup 2018 in my living room despite invites from interested people.


Stuart-I’m with you on the social media aspect as it just doesn’t interest me. That said I believe you would walk away with a huge smile after spending a day at the Masters.
Title: Re: OT - i hate the term "Patrons"!
Post by: Stuart Hallett on April 15, 2018, 03:25:29 PM

Tim, with like minded people, you are probably correct  ;)