Now if only the PGA Tour would equip marshals with tasers to zap people yelling "get in the hole" on par 5 tee boxes...
Now if only the PGA Tour would equip marshals with tasers to zap people yelling "get in the hole" on par 5 tee boxes...
If the answer to all this is, we really cant trust them and we have to babysit them with video, then aren't we in a real bad place?
Ugh. Hate just about everything about this.
Players are responsible for knowing the rules, and playing by them. The incentive to actually do this was already reduced from a DQ to a two-stroke penalty, and now that's gone as well. There's now no incentive to accurately record your score when you may or may not have incurred a penalty: just play dumb and if the guy watching the telecast got up to take a leak, you get away with it. Worst case? You are given the penalty you actually incurred.
Now, quite literally, 20 spectators can record a player with their smart phones breaching the rules, and the worst thing that can happen - if the player says (honestly or not) "I didn't know I had incurred that penalty" - but because they're spectators, their recordings are irrelevant. And thus you'll have a player known to have breached the rules who cannot even be assessed the penalty for the rules infraction, let alone any extra penalties (DQ, two strokes) so long as he "was unaware" that he had breached the rules.
Heaven forbid the guys and gals earning a good living at the game know the rules of the game they play.
Ugh. Hate just about everything about this.
Players are responsible for knowing the rules, and playing by them. The incentive to actually do this was already reduced from a DQ to a two-stroke penalty, and now that's gone as well. There's now no incentive to accurately record your score when you may or may not have incurred a penalty: just play dumb and if the guy watching the telecast got up to take a leak, you get away with it. Worst case? You are given the penalty you actually incurred.
Now, quite literally, 20 spectators can record a player with their smart phones breaching the rules, and the worst thing that can happen - if the player says (honestly or not) "I didn't know I had incurred that penalty" - but because they're spectators, their recordings are irrelevant. And thus you'll have a player known to have breached the rules who cannot even be assessed the penalty for the rules infraction, let alone any extra penalties (DQ, two strokes) so long as he "was unaware" that he had breached the rules.
Heaven forbid the guys and gals earning a good living at the game know the rules of the game they play.
Ugh. Hate just about everything about this.
Players are responsible for knowing the rules, and playing by them. The incentive to actually do this was already reduced from a DQ to a two-stroke penalty, and now that's gone as well. There's now no incentive to accurately record your score when you may or may not have incurred a penalty: just play dumb and if the guy watching the telecast got up to take a leak, you get away with it. Worst case? You are given the penalty you actually incurred.
Now, quite literally, 20 spectators can record a player with their smart phones breaching the rules, and the worst thing that can happen - if the player says (honestly or not) "I didn't know I had incurred that penalty" - but because they're spectators, their recordings are irrelevant. And thus you'll have a player known to have breached the rules who cannot even be assessed the penalty for the rules infraction, let alone any extra penalties (DQ, two strokes) so long as he "was unaware" that he had breached the rules.
Heaven forbid the guys and gals earning a good living at the game know the rules of the game they play.
On the PGA tour, isn't there a referee or rules person with each group, or at least nearby?
Don't all the players "watch" each other? (I know Seve did, and "the worlds most interesting man " does). Are they colluding now?
Isnt the only way to get away with something to be what Erik just said, the rules guy watching on TV missed it?
Yes, but how many famous "call-in" incidents were from spectators at the event vs. home viewers? Isn't it like 100% home viewers?
Yeah.
The real fun will be video captures of rules breaches coming out during/after a tournament. The player in question will have his trophy and check with no penalties, but there will still be a shitstorm on the twitterz.
I guess I have a higher regard for the pros.
Agreed 100% that the players are responsible for knowing the rules and for enforcing them, as well as protecting the field. But I think this is a good move. The call in stuff was nonsense, especially the day after stuff. It's game of honor.
On the PGA tour, isn't there a referee or rules person with each group, or at least nearby?
There are two or three roaming the course. No, they're not always "nearby." They try to spread out, but they're nowhere near "with each group."
Don't all the players "watch" each other? (I know Seve did, and "the worlds most interesting man " does). Are they colluding now?
No. They mostly just let their opponent play on, unless they ask for help or are holding up play with a ruling.
Isnt the only way to get away with something to be what Erik just said, the rules guy watching on TV missed it?
This rule also eliminates the chance of a spectator who recorded a clear violation from reporting it and having it matter.
Yes, but how many famous "call-in" incidents were from spectators at the event vs. home viewers? Isn't it like 100% home viewers?
The famous ones, sure. I've been at an event where a rules official quizzed spectators and pieced together what happened, and penalized a player. Spectators have often been used to indicate where a ball went into a hazard, whether balls on a green hit each other and whether one should be replaced, etc.Yeah.
The real fun will be video captures of rules breaches coming out during/after a tournament. The player in question will have his trophy and check with no penalties, but there will still be a shitstorm on the twitterz.
I doubt very much anyone wants to win a tournament if there's video of them breaching a rule, but because of HOW it was discovered, they weren't penalized?
I don't even know what I would do. Withdraw?I guess I have a higher regard for the pros.
It's not about that.
Take the Lexi thing. She broke the rules. She should have known better. It was her fault. I wish she'd either not replaced the ball an inch away, or thought back to it and assessed herself the penalty. Instead she behaved like something happened TO her, when SHE was in fact the cause of it all. She broke the rules. She incurred a penalty, and wrote a lower score down for that hole than what she actually scored. She should have been thankful that it wasn't a straight out DQ as it was until recently.
It's not about pros actively trying to cheat. I don't think Lexi was. But suppose a player grounds his club and moves some rocks in a hazard (pre-2019). People notice it during the next round. He wins by one… because no penalty is applied, because the guy watching the TV sneezed or didn't pay attention, or somehow missed it?
Who wants that?Agreed 100% that the players are responsible for knowing the rules and for enforcing them, as well as protecting the field. But I think this is a good move. The call in stuff was nonsense, especially the day after stuff. It's game of honor.
How does a person pointing out that a player breached the rules change the "it's a game of honor"? If players were truly honorable, wouldn't they have called the penalty on themselves already, and know the rules themselves?
Game of honor.You keep saying that, but the game is less like a game of honor than it was yesterday. Yesterday, players were more responsible for calling penalties on themselves. Today, they can get away with not doing it and suffer no more penalty than that which they originally incurred, and maybe they'll get away with it completely.
The incorrect scorecard thing is just silly if a player unknowingly incurred a penalty (not because of ignorance of the rules but rather a situation like Lexi's)And yet… now all you have to do now is claim you didn't know! Penalty avoided. How convenient!
More importantly Erik-Check your messages!I read them all days ago.
It is a step in the right direction. Relying on tv spectators to police the game is a crap shoot. Not all players get equal viewing time, therefore the rules were not equally applied to all contestants. This is breaking a basic tenet of sporting rules.Under ideal situations now, the TV referees will be seeing the same telecast. They're not committing to film everyone equally: people will still be watching the telecast and identifying possible infractions - they'll just be paid rules officials instead of relying on someone in the "audience."
Very pleased about no penalty for signing for an incorrect score after 18 holes for 72 hole events. The tournament score is final after the 72nd hole and not until then. Why should players be penalized for an incorrect score prior to the conclusion of 72 holes?Because the competition is still ongoing, and players are responsible for putting down the correct score. It made sense to cap it at the end of the tournament - players go home and literally leave. But the tournament is still ongoing, in round 3, and an error in round 1 can still better reflect the outcome of the tournament.
It is illogical to penalize a player for an incorrect score before the 72 hole finish.No it isn't.
I have no idea why we have this subdivision of scores prior to the 72 hole completion.Because you play with different markers each day, and some may go home, so you need their signature. It's a very simple, practical reason.
Bottom line, creating fake opportunities to penalize someone is never going to score well with me.It's not a "fake" opportunity, and the player has FAILED in their obligation to follow the rules.
A society where you gain fame by being a snitch is very dangerous. Or at least it never worked out well in the past. Snitchnado is tearing us apart.
Golf has alwasy been a game of honor.
That person IMHO has an extremely short shelf life and is a risk worth taking to maintain the integrity and repsct the game has always commanded.
Penalties still exist for signing for a incorrect scorecard, just no penalty for signing one where the player did not know ABOUT a penalty.
The best rues gy in the world could still be penalized if he inadvetantly touched a grain of sand on his backswing and no one saw it (and he wasn't aware).
That person and incident would be very rare in my opinion on the PGA Tour, and it's a rsik I'm willing to take to retain honor as a foundation of the game, and to keep knucklehead callers out of the game.
Someone might win a major where it is later determined that his ball moved slightly in the rough at address as we stared out at the target(most likely deeper) or if he clipped a tiny grain of sand on his backswing in a bunker.
I don't want to live in a world where a creep in his basement is relevant in deciding major championships due to inadvertant, nonadvantage gaining mistakes.
Isnt spike marks one of the changes for 2019?Yes.
Nobody is suggesting a player committing an infraction should be llowed to "get away with it". Prior to the closing of the tournament if a player is found to have broken the rules (without resorting to tv viewers) a penalty is assessed. The signing of an 18 hole scorecard doesn't effect this procedure in the slightest and therefore shouldn't used as a way to assess additional penalties.Players sign cards to signify that this is the score they shot.
But if this really is a self policing game, or at least policing within your group, the pros need to be stop being so self absorbed on the course and pay attention to when thier partner is doing something and have the balls to call them out. Yes there will be some ugly stuff at first, but pretty soon guys would know they are being watched by thier peers, and they will know exactly what to look for when it comes to the cheats like replacing your ball or moving twigs around your ball.
Nobody is suggesting a player committing an infraction should be llowed to "get away with it". Prior to the closing of the tournament if a player is found to have broken the rules (without resorting to tv viewers) a penalty is assessed. The signing of an 18 hole scorecard doesn't effect this procedure in the slightest and therefore shouldn't used as a way to assess additional penalties.Players sign cards to signify that this is the score they shot.
As I noted above, wiping away the two-stroke penalty wipes away an incentive to make sure that is correct and includes penalty strokes, which helps to ensure that players play under the Rules.
If there's no two-stroke penalty, there's no downside to not including a penalty. The worst case scenario is that you get the penalty you actually incurred, and no more. The upside potential is that you're not assessed the penalty at all.
A small part of me is a little confused with this issue.
I'm assuming most of us watch different sports. Players get away with things all the time. Calls are missed on occasion by the refs. There isn't a game go by of any sport that doesn't have mistakes and we call this apart of the game. Sure we've adopted replay for some limited situations in some of these games....but by and large we understand this is part of the game.
I guess I don't get the outrage when something extremely minor is missed in golf. We justify it by saying that golf is different, golf is self-policing, golf is honorable, etc, etc".
A small part of me is a little confused with this issue.
I'm assuming most of us watch different sports. Players get away with things all the time. Calls are missed on occasion by the refs. There isn't a game go by of any sport that doesn't have mistakes and we call this apart of the game. Sure we've adopted replay for some limited situations in some of these games....but by and large we understand this is part of the game.
I guess I don't get the outrage when something extremely minor is missed in golf. We justify it by saying that golf is different, golf is self-policing, golf is honorable, etc, etc".
+1
When they put a camera on EVERY shot, every tournament, every day from 4 different angles, with zoom capability for TV viewers, we'd never miss a call.
and at that point I will not recognize the game and have little interest.......
I still don't get the getting away with deal. A player is caught and assessed a penalty. He didn't get away with it...he was assessed a penalty. Pretty straight forward...deemed to have broken the rules, penalty assessed. Anyway, hopefully most places will adopt the local rule in quick order and we can be done with this nonsense.There's no incentive to get the score right the first time. In fact, you're now incentivized to be able to honestly reply "I didn't know," because knowledge and failure is still a DQ.
But, I'm also glad that the double penalty (or the even more draconian sanction of disqualification) is now eliminated. If the woman (sorry, can't recall her name) who hit the sand with her backswing in the Open didn't know that she had done so, she violated the rule but I just don't see why she should get penalized for signing an incorrect card.
I'm assuming most of us watch different sports. Players get away with things all the time. Calls are missed on occasion by the refs. There isn't a game go by of any sport that doesn't have mistakes and we call this apart of the game. Sure we've adopted replay for some limited situations in some of these games....but by and large we understand this is part of the game.
I guess I don't get the outrage when something extremely minor is missed in golf. We justify it by saying that golf is different, golf is self-policing, golf is honorable, etc, etc".
Ignorance of the rules is intentional. Every PGA Tour or LPGA Tour golfer chooses not to study and learn the Rules of the game.
Ignorance of the rules is intentional. Every PGA Tour or LPGA Tour golfer chooses not to study and learn the Rules of the game.
If that is indeed the case, then therein lies the root of the problem. In a game where honesty, integrity, and self-policing is the very basis by which the game is predicated, knowing the rules verbatim is not only necessary but also mandatory. In my opinion each and every player of each tour should be mandated to know the rules, especially with millions of dollars at stake. If they don't, then they don't play.
Ignorance of the rules is intentional. Every PGA Tour or LPGA Tour golfer chooses not to study and learn the Rules of the game.
If that is indeed the case, then therein lies the root of the problem. In a game where honesty, integrity, and self-policing is the very basis by which the game is predicated, knowing the rules verbatim is not only necessary but also mandatory. In my opinion each and every player of each tour should be mandated to know the rules, especially with millions of dollars at stake. If they don't, then they don't play.
Just another excuse to eliminate the best athletes from the game.
Is there any evidence that playing for money increases cheating? In my experience it limits it because cheaters never win. Seriously, if you cheat when playing for serious money you are literally putting your ass on the line.
PGA Tour players have no problem spending hours practicing looking to save shots. Why wouldn’t they attend rules seminars to learn the rules and save shots? They’ve now even less reason to learn them.
The PGA Tour needs to decide at some point what they want.
Implement actual Integrity to the game and protect the field.... aka have officials follow every group and watch closely to enforce as much as possible
OR----
Continue with the status quo...
For once the blue blazers used some common sense and called a halt to a practice which had gotten completely out-of-hand.
Please, share the name of ANY caller-in. Where's the fame if nobody even knows who these people are? For all you know, a fellow rules official "called in" the Lexi penalty. Or Craig Stadler's penalty in 1987.
I'm more on Erik's side than I thought I would be when this discussion started. But...Please, share the name of ANY caller-in. Where's the fame if nobody even knows who these people are? For all you know, a fellow rules official "called in" the Lexi penalty. Or Craig Stadler's penalty in 1987.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal)
Is there a prize?
I'm more on Erik's side than I thought I would be when this discussion started. But...Please, share the name of ANY caller-in. Where's the fame if nobody even knows who these people are? For all you know, a fellow rules official "called in" the Lexi penalty. Or Craig Stadler's penalty in 1987.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal)
Is there a prize?
There is always a place at the table for a tattler.
Kalen,
There is no rate of return for cheating on tour or at golf in general. If caught it follows you for a lifetime.
P.S. I still think there's one issue that hasn't really been addressed, and that is the concept of an "un-interested observer".
The player and his partner, no doubt has his own self interests in mind, and even the most trusted/honest PGA tour player still has some sort of bias if it involves them directly. And a fan might be less interested in calling a potential violation if it involves thier favorite player...
If for no other reason, this would be reason enough to involve official enforcement on Tour from rules officials...
Jon,
You said:
Golf should not go down the line of having referees who enforce the rules as this would inevitable lead to the end of any serious club golf competition.
I'm curious why you think having dedicated officials would kill the PGA Tour? Remember, we're not talking about club championships or other lower level competitive golf. I see the scope of this as the PGA, European, LPGA and Nationwide Tour.
I have to say I’m not totally opposed to call-ins. It keeps the players honest because you never know who’s watching. It also has the effect of connecting fans with the game because they are part of the action.
I have to say I’m not totally opposed to call-ins. It keeps the players honest because you never know who’s watching. It also has the effect of connecting fans with the game because they are part of the action.
Douche town called and they want their +1 back.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal)Eger called during play. He’s the reason Tiger wasn’t DQed. The committee supposedly met and declared no penalty.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal)Eger called during play. He’s the reason Tiger wasn’t DQed. The committee supposedly met and declared no penalty.
I was actually the one who called and got Tiger the extra four. Tiger said he dropped two yards back. I got in touch with a Rules official on the grounds and alerted him to what was said.
And yeah I should have excluded Eger. Name another from a different incident.
Isn't it ironic that a guy who played in 58 PGA Tour events, regained his amateur status(while working in the golf business of course)FWIW I didn't do any of those things. And no, I don't find Eger's resume "ironic."
then won the US Mid Am, with repeat high US Am finishes and then turned pro AGAIN to win multiple times on the Champions Tour.
..............Would have the balls to call out anyone for a TV rules violation
Jon,
In context, I meant the same thing, even if it came out different. A dedicated referee/official that follows each group to watch over play.
My apologies on the 2nd part, I skipped right over the club part. However, I still don't see how this would be a deterrent. Ive played in many informal basketball, football, and baseball games without officials/refs. We still hashed it out and played the game to conclusion. I can't imagine why club play couldn't still use this model.
P.S. If the clubs that can afford it, want to have some guys come out and officiate stroke play for the club championship, then by all means they should.
With the elimination of the two-stroke penalty, players have no real downside to not including a penalty in their score, particularly if they can honestly say "I don't know the rules very well, so no, I didn't know that was a penalty."
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mystery-masters-tv-caller-in-tiger-woods-rules-fiasco-reveal)Eger called during play. He’s the reason Tiger wasn’t DQed. The committee supposedly met and declared no penalty.
I was actually the one who called and got Tiger the extra four. Tiger said he dropped two yards back. I got in touch with a Rules official on the grounds and alerted him to what was said. I wanted Tiger to win… fairly. Imagine the stink if he had won by 1 with that drop and what he had said about it?
And yeah I should have excluded Eger. Name another from a different incident. Point is callers aren’t fame seekers.
When someone calls in a violation next year, the organizing body of that even will be able to say they have it internally. No sweat. The goal is, and has always been, to get it right. This announcement doesn't reduce that goal, or chances of attaining it.Hopefully that's how it's going to go.
Erik, I think you're overstating the notion that a player may not disclose a potential situation, under this new guideline, simply because the risk of viewer call-in is lower/eliminated. There are players that go to, or beyond, the edge now and there will be in the future. Their reputation goes with them. The ultimate onus is on that player and his marker to get it right.That has more to do with the elimination of the additional two strokes, and so that affects EVERY level of golf. So my comments there aren't necessarily directed at the PGA Tour (or other pro tours), but rather at golf in general, where you can plead ignorant and most likely get away with stuff. Junior golf, in particular, seems rife with cheaters these days.
The best case scenario would be to find an incentive for the players to protect the field...but in the chummy club that the Tour has become, not even the rules officials have the incentive to protect the field.
There are players that go to, or beyond, the edge now and there will be in the future. Their reputation goes with them.
No first-hand knowledge, but my sense is this isn't nearly as true as it was. From only a TV spectator's perspective, there seems to be a new normal--everybody goes along to get along.That feels right to me too. We're well past the days of Tom Watson calling out Gary Player for improving his lie.
Maybe there's so much money available that nobody wants to rock the boat.
Jon,
In context, I meant the same thing, even if it came out different. A dedicated referee/official that follows each group to watch over play.
My apologies on the 2nd part, I skipped right over the club part. However, I still don't see how this would be a deterrent. Ive played in many informal basketball, football, and baseball games without officials/refs. We still hashed it out and played the game to conclusion. I can't imagine why club play couldn't still use this model.
P.S. If the clubs that can afford it, want to have some guys come out and officiate stroke play for the club championship, then by all means they should.
Kalen,
so how does what you are proposing differ from the present situation?
The leading groups already have an official following them and yet still situations such as the DJ US Open debacle occur. I doubt that the PGA Tour has the will to train and pay so many officials to follow the tour week in week out. Finally, it would just lead the players to referring to the official on every little thing slowing down the already snail pace of play.
Jon
I have to say I’m not totally opposed to call-ins. It keeps the players honest because you never know who’s watching. It also has the effect of connecting fans with the game because they are part of the action.
Douche town called and they want their +1 back.
Each time I watch a guy that's receiving a free drop from an obstruction go right to the edge of their drop boundary to ensure the ball bounces outside it so they can place it I think of the Arnold Palmer story from Pebble Beach (I think).The ball would still have to roll two clublengths.
They were apparently playing the Crosby in a nasty downpour and the greens had big swaths of casual water. Palmer, in taking relief from one of these areas, paced from his ball to the hole using smaller than normal strides then paced off in the relief direction using extra long strides. His caddy pointed it out and asked what he was doing...he apparently said if even one person in this crowd thinks he gained an advantage by doing this it wouldn't be worth it.Good for Mr. Palmer.
How many people in the world could score 100% on the rules of golf exam? Is it more than 50?
How many people in the world could score 100% on the rules of golf exam? Is it more than 50?
+1000 - most spot on thing you've said in months John... maybe years.
The ruling bodies have made everything so ridiculously complicated, with exceptions/rulings up the ying yang....and the players are expected to get it right. Every. Single. Time.
I think the complete lack of emapthy/understanding of being an fallible human in this thread is the biggest head scratcher to me...
The ruling bodies have made everything so ridiculously complicated, with exceptions/rulings up the ying yang....and the players are expected to get it right. Every. Single. Time.They don’t have to know everything. Officials are scattered about the course to help. An hour or two of study covers 98% of the stuff you run into. Maybe more.
The ruling bodies have made everything so ridiculously complicated, with exceptions/rulings up the ying yang....and the players are expected to get it right. Every. Single. Time.They don’t have to know everything. Officials are scattered about the course to help. An hour or two of study covers 98% of the stuff you run into. Maybe more.
Players have a responsibility to know and follow the rules. Now they’ll be incentivized NOT to know them.
It must be easy winning all those best teacher awards when you deal with nothing but geniuses. None of the golfers I know, including every club professional and assistant, can pick up 98% of the rules in a couple of hours. Most if not every ruling is won by the guy with the strongest personality because no one really knows for sure.I didn’t say 98% of the Rules.
First players are still incentivized to call infractions because it is a penalty for fellow competitors to knowingly disregard the rules and the rules guys on this thread know this.
First players are still incentivized to call infractions because it is a penalty for fellow competitors to knowingly disregard the rules and the rules guys on this thread know this.I'm a "rules guy," and all I can tell you is that PGA Tour players do NOT want to call an infraction on another player. That ended a long time ago.
Which brings me to the other observation that there are two kinds of rules officials I have worked with; those that assume they are there to help the player and the field and start from the vantage that the player wants to get it right and those that assume the player is just guilty until proven innocent and he wants to notch one more call on his belt.I really haven't met ANYONE who meets the latter description. Not saying they're not out there, but most ROs I know are simply there to help.
It seems to me that pros do not want the responsibility of watching fellow competitors. Without call ins to make anyone look bad, they have all the more reason to just go along to get along.
After the Lexi fiasco I suggested that when remarking the ball, any part of the coin (and let's return to coins, not rude poker chips) could be used to replace the ball.Why? How about you just endeavor to put it back right where you picked it up from? Why introduce a grey area when, for decades, we've been fine marking and replacing it pretty much where you pick it up from? Besides, the rules don't say you have to mark the ball directly behind it, so you could move the ball closer to the hole: mark it to the side, replace it in front.
hook, line, and sinker ;) ;D :o :oWay to advance the discussion.
I am pleased that an issue I raised several years ago (to much criticism) - "backstopping" - is now generally recognized as business as usual on the tour. The correct remedy under the rules today would be for both players to be disqualified, as it is obvious that they are agreeing to help each other, if only tacitly. Of course, this never happens.The USGA/R&A is going the opposite direction, though, in placing more trust and assuming more honesty on the parts of competitors. Such a rule would fly in the opposite direction (and thus, I suppose, in the face) of that.
I made a suggestion then for a rules change, and I will repeat it here. If player A's ball is within 5 feet of the hole, and player B's ball is withing ten yards of the green, Player A must mark his ball. If he does not, and if Player B's ball strikes Player A's ball thereafter, then Player A will be penalized one stroke. That will put an end to "backstopping." And no, players will not measure distances before deciding whether to mark the ball on the green. If that happens and the ball is left near the hole, the only explanation will be collusion. And again, no, this will not cause a material slow down in play.
You're the one who has suggested the LPGA and PGA Tours are rife with cheaters
ready to gain any advantage, and can't be trusted to play the game with honor-unless they have risks of overnight scorecard penalties deterring them.I've said the rules change incentivizes people to be as ignorant as possible. That's true. There's still a DQ if you knowingly write down an incorrect score. If you can honestly say "Nope, I didn't know that was a penalty" then you stand to gain by your lack of knowledge: the worst that can happen is the original penalty (no DQ, now no two additional strokes!). The best: no penalty!
I'm merely suggesting that in a world where there are perfect fairways, drops from "abnormal ground conditions", line of sight relief from temporary obstructions, that if we simply allowed the player a simple and quick way to avoid putting out of a hole when their ball settles in one on a green, that the honest players who play it out of the holes or from behind spikemarks not be penalized nor tempted to do anything illegal.a) The ball doesn't really settle into holes when it comes to rest on a putting green. Maybe when greens stamped at 6, sure.
The takeaway based on Erik's comments are I think we can put the "honor" thing to bed once and for all.
P.S. And I should clarify, I don't think this kind of stuff is new...its likely been going on for decades.