Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Matt_Cohn on July 12, 2017, 09:39:44 PM
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A year out from the US Amateur and two years out from the US Open, fairway narrowing has begun.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4232/35719583042_ebbb59549d_c.jpg)
Original post: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWdD2msA5O3/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BWdD2msA5O3/)
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So, those bunkers are going to be 10-12 yards deep in the rough?
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So, those bunkers are going to be 10-12 yards deep in the rough?
Not my picture, but that's what it looks like?
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It really does seem to be binary, doesn't it?
A regular golfer would say: that's strange, to have fairway bunkers surrounded by rough.
A tournament golfer would say: that's great, the more off line you hit it the worse the penalty.
I'm half-surprised that the latter view still holds such sway. It suggests that in a fundamental way some of the game's key decision makers simply don't understand how/why better architecture makes for better golf.
The worst part is, they *think* they know, and in fact are convinced of it. (After all, the principle involved here is not dissimilar to Mr Davis' much-applauded 'graduated rough.')
60 years ago the great tournament golfer Ben Hogan used to say that any full shot that went perfectly straight (ie that didn't fade or draw) was an accident, a mistake. Nowadays, the great set-up men of golf reward that 'accident' lavishly, almost to the exclusion of any other.
It's striking that something so wrong headed and misguided to one set of golfers can seem so right and proper to another.
Peter
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And just when you think pace of play at Pebble couldn't get any slower...
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Is there anything in that photo other than a difference in color and idle speculation to suggest that this is an indication of fairway narrowing at Pebble Beach?
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I actually think the complete opposite. At one time, in the last 3-5 years, fairways were pushed out to tie the bunkers into the fairways better. The lighter colored grass is the old fairway line. The expanded areas will take a while (years) to match up.
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I was there last week and saw no indication they were mowing it narrower. I thought the presentation of the course was fantastic.
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Is there anything in that photo other than a difference in color and idle speculation to suggest that this is an indication of fairway narrowing at Pebble Beach?
;D ;D ;D
no, but it sure was conversation starter
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#Fake News?
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Is there anything in that photo other than a difference in color and idle speculation to suggest that this is an indication of fairway narrowing at Pebble Beach?
;D ;D ;D
no, but it sure was conversation starter
Sometimes the birdies come easy, sometimes you have to manufacture them.... :)
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Based on the mowing patterns, it looks like its all fairway to me....
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The clues, mainly the mowing lines present, tend to lean toward expansion, which may or may not be recent. It takes years of integration between the poa/bents and rye for the color to start blending and marrying up.
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Research on Google Earth shows the fairway cut being close to the bunkers as far back as 1998 (the oldest aerial in their set).
Maybe its a shadow on the obviously sunny day.
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Maybe its a shadow on the obviously sunny day.
Nice. 8)
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I certainly don't think it's recent fairway widening, given this image that's already on Google Earth with zero discoloration even in bright sunshine:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4263/35518555760_b0830d139b_c.jpg)
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Historical aerials, shows the bunkers were reconfigured between 2005 and 2009.
It used to be one big bunker with 3 grass blobs in the middle. It was then changed to 4 bunkers that pinched the fairway in making it more narrow the further you drove the ball. (Arnies work?)
So perhaps the above photo was photoshopped to show the darker shade of green? ;D
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As its already been said, the fairway lines in the lighter grass is same as the dark area. Grass has different colors different times of the year as it adjusts. Theyre not narrowing fairways.
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Well, I found out what's happening. We're all sort of wrong but all a little bit right. Except those of you who said the fairways are being widened; you're wrong. ;D
They are overseeding (with ryegrass) areas where rough will be grown. The darker area in the picture will be rough during the US Open. However, it is still currently being cut at fairway height. They're just readying it to become rough later on.
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Matt,
Hard for me to prove it, but that was going to be my next postulation.
I don't really see the point of shortening the fairway away from the ridge. Isn't it a harder shot to get to the green the closer you are to that ridge? Why not just let that defend itself? And those bunkers are going to look very silly sitting out there on an island.
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If there's a war between thoughtful design with proper maintenance melds, and, the ego driven committee deciders, Pebble and Augusta are the same side. The latter.
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I feel like the maintenance and presentation when I played there (about 3 weeks before the Pro-Am) were really terrific. It seems silly to put that much rough between the fairway and the bunkers; that's already a really intimidating tee shot and I think the fairway running into the bunkers actually makes it a little scarier because they feel more in play to me.
I drove it in the ocean.
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By the time the tournament gets here the bunkers won't matter. It will be a 3 iron 8 iron hole
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I thought that with Pinehurst & Erin Hills, the USGA was trying to change its set-up MO. Too bad.
Would the hole have more options off the tee, if there was landing zone bunker enlargement?
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Matt,
Hard for me to prove it, but that was going to be my next postulation.
I don't really see the point of shortening the fairway away from the ridge. Isn't it a harder shot to get to the green the closer you are to that ridge? Why not just let that defend itself? And those bunkers are going to look very silly sitting out there on an island.
If recollection serves me correctly Tiger reached the green from just in front of the ridge with 6 iron in 2000, surely it'd be less club for the longer hitters now. With TV towers and such, I can't imagine it being much more difficult playing from closer up to the ridge, it's understandable that they'd force the issue.
That being said, it's a bit pointless to think of bunkers in their strategic context for a US Open because the thick rough is almost certainly the most difficult hazard out there. Which makes the bunker additions on 3 a few years back all the more puzzling.
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Which makes the bunker additions on 3 a few years back all the more puzzling.
Right? It makes it easier for the US Open and harder for everything else!
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Really ugly and pointless.
In 2010, they mowed fairway right into the bunkers.
(https://www.pebblebeach.com/content/uploads/events-usopen-highlights-didyouknow-1550x600-1200x465.jpg)
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Which makes the bunker additions on 3 a few years back all the more puzzling.
Right? It makes it easier for the US Open and harder for everything else!
Where did they add bunkers on #3
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Which makes the bunker additions on 3 a few years back all the more puzzling.
Right? It makes it easier for the US Open and harder for everything else!
Where did they add bunkers on #3
To the right of the fairway in the Landing area, some fairly big ones. Check historical aerials between 2005 and 2009.
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Longer than a few years ago. They were there when I played around 2010ish
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Longer than a few years ago. They were there when I played around 2010ish
Yes, they were put in prior to the 2010 US Open, so probably 2007/2008.