Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: noonan on April 08, 2017, 05:57:46 PM
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I have not seen any close up coverage of people marking balls.
Not much close up coverage of putts either.
Maybe they have been given orders to stop call in penalties.
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Their microphones have somehow found huge numbers of Bob White Quail. Who would have ever thought that they have gone to live among the patrons at the Masters?
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The coverage is cloying, deferential and reverential to an amazingly offensive level. I am so sick of the ass kissing tone everybody has adopted, even on satellite radio. If I hear the word "patron" on the post golf coverage tonight, I'm going straight to the Patron.
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The App with 3 devices is killer
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I miss the pro-tracer coverage they were using on the "Amen Corner" coverage for holes 11 & 13 that was online Thursday & Friday.
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The coverage is cloying, deferential and reverential to an amazingly offensive level. I am so sick of the ass kissing tone everybody has adopted, even on satellite radio. If I hear the word "patron" on the post golf coverage tonight, I'm going straight to the Patron.
Me too.
Jim Nantz, on a Sunday, with a Nicklaus or Tiger win is one thing. But Jimmy Roberts' ponderous voice-over pronouncements about *everything* are just way too much.
There are champions -- and then there are *Masters* champions.
Their names ring-out like wind-chimes across this grand cathedral of golf -- Sarazen, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, and Woods.
But as great as these names are, they're *more* than just names -- they are, to put it briefly, our *memories*:
Memories of spring-times long ago, and of our youths, and of roars echoing through the Georgia Pines.
And like the azaleas that bloom here, these Masters champions *return* to Augusta, every spring -- to honour, and to celebrate, and to remember.
Here, the *Masters* champions gather in a tradition like no other -- for a dinner, with the only other men in the world who can truly *understand*.
And what they understand is this: that *their* accomplishments on this most sacred ground also serve as *our* most hallowed memories.
As so, as they come in pilgrimage for the annual Champions Dinner, I would like to say this, to each one: to Nicklaus and Woods and, yes, to Arnold Palmer -- "Thanks...ever so much...for the memories".
Yes...There are champions -- and then...there are *Masters* champions.
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The Masters-only vocabulary reminds me of when Hussein was in power in Iraq. TV reporters had to refer to him as "his excellency Saddam Hussein" or some similarly inane confection on first reference in reports, or the satellite plug would be pulled.
At Augusta, you don't have a front nine or back nine, because someone thought "back side" would be used. So, first nine and second nine.
The list has grown over the years. The gallery had fans and spectators in it on CBS' 1986 coverage.
Even writers there are using patrons more and more. If you donate to an art museum or the symphony, you're a patron. If you go to a golf tournament, you're a fan.
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You have to let this stuff go when watching The Masters (even the cloying capital T). It's emblematic of the stuffiness of ANGC and their obsessive level of control. CBS has no choice but to go along with the charade, I'm guessing so much so that Nance and the rest have bought into it a long time ago. I love the tradition and tournament so I ignore the pompous bullshit.
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Yes, I seem to recall they were much looser with the words "allowed" in past years. I guess it's McCord's fault.
On the other hand, I do enjoy a lot more actual live golf being shown than usual. Your typical CBS broadcast these days might go 20 minutes without showing a live golf shot.
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Why do so many on this site continue to use the acronym of AGNC when it's always and unequivocally been ANGC?!? FFS
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Why do so many on this site continue to use the acronym of AGNC when it's always and unequivocally been ANGC?!? FFS
My apologies, it should have been ANGC. I will edit my post. But geez, have a scotch and mellow out.
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Because of the limited commercials, I think it is the only televised golf one can watch live. I still watch on tape delay so I can skip the stuff I don't want to watch, but I have watched it live a few times and it wasn't that bad. It was said a couple of times during Golf Channel's "Live from the Masters" shows "if you are a golf fan, but of course you are if you are watching this..." In other words, mindless gabbing for hours about nothing. To some extent the same can be said about CBS's coverage. They may be boring and following the controlling rules, but most golf fans don't care that much.
It's quite true the coverage is controlled, formalized, and if you believe what has been published, very heavily influenced by ANGC.
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I noticed lots of drone coverage from ANGC. Perhaps we might see a Konica Minolta Bizhub drone in the near future?
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The coverage is cloying, deferential and reverential to an amazingly offensive level. I am so sick of the ass kissing tone everybody has adopted, even on satellite radio. If I hear the word "patron" on the post golf coverage tonight, I'm going straight to the Patron.
Me too.
Jim Nantz, on a Sunday, with a Nicklaus or Tiger win is one thing. But Jimmy Roberts' ponderous voice-over pronouncements about *everything* are just way too much.
There are champions -- and then there are *Masters* champions.
Their names ring-out like wind-chimes across this grand cathedral of golf -- Sarazen, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, and Woods.
But as great as these names are, they're *more* than just names -- they are, to put it briefly, our *memories*:
Memories of spring-times long ago, and of our youths, and of roars echoing through the Georgia Pines.
And like the azaleas that bloom here, these Masters champions *return* to Augusta, every spring -- to honour, and to celebrate, and to remember.
Here, the *Masters* champions gather in a tradition like no other -- for a dinner, with the only other men in the world who can truly *understand*.
And what they understand is this: that *their* accomplishments on this most sacred ground also serve as *our* most hallowed memories.
As so, as they come in pilgrimage for the annual Champions Dinner, I would like to say this, to each one: to Nicklaus and Woods and, yes, to Arnold Palmer -- "Thanks...ever so much...for the memories".
Yes...There are champions -- and then...there are *Masters* champions.
It seems the entire media industry is geared to appeal on an emotional level. Everything is presented as a highly emotional matter, leading to the loss of objectivity. A stunning loss of objectivity, that is, rendering the highly sensitized viewers powerless against the shocking, suggestive nature of the Almighty broadcast.
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Ain't it great.
Greatest day in sports.
Period.
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Ain't it great.
Greatest day in sports.
Period.
Agreed -- easily the best golf broadcast, and one of the best days in sports.
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Why do so many on this site continue to use the acronym of AGNC when it's always and unequivocally been ANGC?!? FFS
My apologies, it should have been ANGC. I will edit my post. But geez, have a scotch and mellow out.
In the spirit of the thread, I suggest a shot of Patron.
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Ain't it great.
Greatest day in sports.
Period.
This is Holy Week. Final Four, an incredible solo effort at Ronde van Vlaanderen last week, a windy and brutal first couple days at Augusta, a real hardman winning Paris-Roubaix this morning, followed by what looks to be a great final round this afternoon. It is by my account, the greatest sports week of the year. This from a rabid Georgia Bulldog fan too!
I do so love the Masters haters coming out online every year around the same time. Nobody, NOBODY, does it like ANGC. They've gotten monster corporate sponsors to minimize commercial breaks. They've got easily the best team in golf coverage in a comfortable environment that they know well. They have a green's staff that somehow kept the golf course perfectly on edge and playable over the course of a very challenging week that ran the gamut from warm, wet, cool, windy, and now very dry (relative humidity low enough for fire warning in much of north Georgia).
I do get annoyed by some of the dripping sweetness that flows through the coverage. But that's what this is. This is adult spring break. This is golf Disney World. Don't go to the Magic Kingdom and complain that it doesn't feel like the backcountry at Yosemite.
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The Masters is a wonderful tournament. What disturbs me is the lack of professional demarcation, i.e. journalists serving as marketers, critics who might as well be PR people. The Jimmy Roberts material I parodied above is found on "Masters.com" -- our golf broadcaster doubling, apparently, as a paid spokesman. And no one seems to blink an eye anymore. We all seem to accept that it's simply the way of the world. Doesn't anyone want to be an outsider anymore? It used to be an honourable place in the scheme of things. Nowadays we're all lining up - fighting for just the chance -- to sell ourselves out and pay reverent homage to the 'man', to the 'corporation'.
Peter
PS - And Bn, one of the subtlest manifestations, it seems to me, of this overwhelming desire to be an insider is the use of the term 'haters'. As I'm sure you know, there are in fact, and all around the world, many devastating and horrific forms of hatred -- hatred that kills and maims and diminishes the human spirit and denies human freedom and the inherent worth of every individual. Coming on here to poke a little fun at the overwrought PR nonsense meant to bolster an already hugely successful golf tournament is not 'hatred' in any meaningful sense of the word
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Peter,
I'll take your use of the word "sublest" to mean "least effectual." I'm as sanguine about the evolution of the English language as the next guy. But frankly, preaching literate on the use of the word "hater" seems to rub me the wrong way. Sorry, it just does. If you want to pull the world's problems into this thread like a wet noodle across a dry table, enjoy yourself. I'm in jolly mood and I'm going to make pimento cheese sandwiches.
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Here's how I look at it. It is what it is, every year the same complaints about the broadcasters, the culture implied, the "too perfect" course, etc. I agree, but that does no good. I say suck it up and watch anyway, or don't watch. I choose the former. (Watch with the sound off would also be an option worth considering.)
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Sheesh. Is it not socially acceptable to hate the mawkish coverage while still loving the toonamint? The extent to which journalists kiss the ass of the host of this event cheapens it but it's still awesome. Holy Week? Not so sure I can find a kneeler or a religious vestment but I damn sure will remain well hydrated.
Almost time to put the Ketel to the metal or Patron to the bone. But I'll wait until the back...er...second nine.
A Ricky/Sergio/Jordan battle looms.
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Sheesh. Is it not socially acceptable to hate the mawkish coverage while still loving the toonamint? The extent to which journalists kiss the ass of the host of this event cheapens it but it's still awesome. Holy Week? Not so sure I can find a kneeler or a religious vestment but I damn sure will remain well hydrated.
Almost time to put the Ketel to the metal or Patron to the bone. But I'll wait until the back...er...second nine.
A Ricky/Sergio/Jordan battle looms.
This was the proper response. Or in other words, how you argue online without being no fun.
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You'all think TMOTH want any couch potato rules official calling anything in and ruining their event? I'm willing to bet anyone a Patron Billy Payne let CBS and TGC know " no zoom lenses on anything; we're not going to have someone ruin The Invitational".
Look at the shot Sergio hit on Saturday into the hazard on #13.... no zoom to see if he came anywhere close to grounding the club in the hazard.
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A few rumblings on social media are suggesting his drop wasn't kosher.
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A few rumblings on social media are suggesting his drop wasn't kosher.
His drop was kosher because he did it next to a rules official and his playing partner had the opportunity to watch it. Anything else required? ;D
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Yep, looks like a non-story.
For the sanity of everyone, that's a good thing.
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Sergio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Justin Rose - class act!
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
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What a jaded group this board is.
Congrats Sergio, never been a fan but today I was.
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8) I thought Sergio's eagle putt on 15 was oddly appropriate, and his last one... he's human by all measures and who cares now, he looks good in that green jacket, smiling wide, glad to see him get his first major there, and pressure at that level is certainly a bit more than most will ever experience over a 6 ft putt
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As far as The Master's coverage goes:. I want all the Blue Pills. I don't care if it is cloying and fake. I know it is. But I still love it.
I have also spent most of my adult life disliking Sergio. Now I like him. I like his fiance's skirt much more.
Back nine was compelling, all I wanted.
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Are you using a pipe or are you on the needle? Garcia's clutch putts on 13, 14, & 15 (first eagle on 15 by a winner in 23 years) don't count but his pars on 16 & 18 were chokes?
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CBS hit it out of the park down the stretch.
And now the best player who hasn't won a major (not including The Players) is? Fowler? Westwood? Someone else?
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Are you using a pipe or are you on the needle? Garcia's clutch putts on 13, 14, & 15 (first eagle on 15 by a winner in 23 years) don't count but his pars on 16 & 18 were chokes?
Tough guy with your blogging thumb, eh?
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Shooting 3 under over the last 5 holes, as Sergio did, is choking?
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Short memory, forget 2015 Chambers Bay?
I'm not willing to label or judge a player based on two pressure misses on 16 and 18. In fact, based on the dynamic nature of the golf course this week, I think Sergio was the most complete winner in some time.
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He choked up his lead by missing three six footers earlier in the round. At the end of regulation he wobbled a three footer. His fellow competitor gagged on the last two in regulation. Sergio was a stud into the green on his last seven or so shots. But he could've and should've had a big lead going into the last four holes. He is lucky that Rose got twitchy too.
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Are you using a pipe or are you on the needle? Garcia's clutch putts on 13, 14, & 15 (first eagle on 15 by a winner in 23 years) don't count but his pars on 16 & 18 were chokes?
Tough guy with your blogging thumb, eh?
Not tough at all, fairly weak I'd imagine, but I'm able to identify an idiotic "hot take" when I see one. Go post that nonsense on ESPN.com or BombSquad.
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Are you using a pipe or are you on the needle? Garcia's clutch putts on 13, 14, & 15 (first eagle on 15 by a winner in 23 years) don't count but his pars on 16 & 18 were chokes?
Tough guy with your blogging thumb, eh?
Not tough at all, fairly weak I'd imagine, but I'm able to identify an idiotic "hot take" when I see one. Go post that nonsense on ESPN.com or BombSquad.
Never been on either site but at least we agree on something.
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You'all think TMOTH want any couch potato rules official calling anything in and ruining their event? I'm willing to bet anyone a Patron Billy Payne let CBS and TGC know " no zoom lenses on anything; we're not going to have someone ruin The Invitational".
Look at the shot Sergio hit on Saturday into the hazard on #13.... no zoom to see if he came anywhere close to grounding the club in the hazard.
Except when they zoomed in when Sergio was clearing pine needles and someone reported the ball moved and it wasn't until 17 that it was stated that no penalty would be given
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Peter,
I'll take your use of the word "sublest" to mean "least effectual." I'm as sanguine about the evolution of the English language as the next guy. But frankly, preaching literate on the use of the word "hater" seems to rub me the wrong way. Sorry, it just does. If you want to pull the world's problems into this thread like a wet noodle across a dry table, enjoy yourself. I'm in jolly mood and I'm going to make pimento cheese sandwiches.
For what its worth, I agree with Pietro. Folks that throw around the "hater" dart at every opportunity to put down folks whose opinion is different is pathetic.
Terry
69 to win it is hardly a choking. Yep, Sergio left some shots on the course, but he also stole some shots. Playing left on 13 convinced me Sergio was in it to win it...that line is not one for chokers. I was never more pleased to scramble par.
Its not too bad watching the Masters on the Beeb. Much of the moosh is not aired and I skip anything remotely like moosh anyway...never watch golf live.
Ciao
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That was awesome!!
Very happy to see Sergio win.
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I'm sure Lexi's stalker called into CBS about the Sergio's drop on #13 today; after all he's infamous in his own little circle.
Glad to see TMOTM were having none of this.
Next chance for Lexi's favorite fan and his posse is in June when the lads are playing @ Erin Hills. The blue blazers will entertain every nutcase calling in to with a beef so they "can defend par."
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Surely you would have made that putt. ::)
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The racial profiling of Sergio was out of hand. Is every Spaniard a matador?
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The coverage is cloying, deferential and reverential to an amazingly offensive level. I am so sick of the ass kissing tone ...
It's in the contract.
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You'all think TMOTH want any couch potato rules official calling anything in and ruining their event? I'm willing to bet anyone a Patron Billy Payne let CBS and TGC know " no zoom lenses on anything; we're not going to have someone ruin The Invitational".
Look at the shot Sergio hit on Saturday into the hazard on #13.... no zoom to see if he came anywhere close to grounding the club in the hazard.
Because he wasn't in the hazard perhaps?
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The racial profiling of Sergio was out of hand. Is every Spaniard a matador?
Probably not. But he sure is.
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Surely you would have made that putt. ::)
You've obviously never played with his honor. I've never seen him miss anything inside 6 feet.
Even on TV you could tell it was an inside left or left edge putt. He was aimed right.
It was a bad misread.
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Surely you would have made that putt. ::)
You've obviously never played with his honor. I've never seen him miss anything inside 6 feet.
Even on TV you could tell it was an inside left or left edge putt. He was aimed right.
It was a bad misread.
The guy wins with a birdie putt in a playoff and he's still a choker. Goodness. Choking all the way to his Paella Champions' Dinner in 2018.
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Call it what you want, his read on a short putt to win a major had it breaking the wrong way.
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Call it what you want, his read on a short putt to win a major had it breaking the wrong way.
To be fair, he said in his press conference that he and his caddy tested that exact putt in the practice rounds two or three times, and every time it was a right-edge putt. How it broke right is beyond him and his caddy.
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Just loved to watch the putts, all week, by all players. What a great display of green keepers management of historical conditions.
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Call it what you want, his read on a short putt to win a major had it breaking the wrong way.
To be fair, he said in his press conference that he and his caddy tested that exact putt in the practice rounds two or three times, and every time it was a right-edge putt. How it broke right is beyond him and his caddy.
Got to wonder why he bothered practicing that putt when he could just have asked a few people on here. Fancy relying on your own judgment.
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Having watched the first three rounds on Sky we were in a hotel in the Lakes, so had to watch on the BBC last night. Peter Alliss is now beyond a parody of himself and there's an unpleasant judgmental air that has come into his commentary which makes him unpleasant, rather than merely annoying, to listen too. Time to retire, Peter, while some of us remember how good you were a long time ago.
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Having watched the first three rounds on Sky we were in a hotel in the Lakes, so had to watch on the BBC last night. Peter Alliss is now beyond a parody of himself and there's an unpleasant judgmental air that has come into his commentary which makes him unpleasant, rather than merely annoying, to listen too. Time to retire, Peter, while some of us remember how good you were a long time ago.
Hater 8)
Ciao
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Having watched the first three rounds on Sky we were in a hotel in the Lakes, so had to watch on the BBC last night. Peter Alliss is now beyond a parody of himself and there's an unpleasant judgmental air that has come into his commentary which makes him unpleasant, rather than merely annoying, to listen too. Time to retire, Peter, while some of us remember how good you were a long time ago.
Even at his best Alliss was only a poor man's Longhurst. And you can see from his commentary why all the golf courses he's been involved with 'designing' are lousy -- every time a ball lands near a hole and rolls away down a slope or because the green is firm it's unfair or wrong.
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Sven,
whilst his putt was not the most convincing stroke ever I doubt that many of us (including you) on this site could manage to mark and replace the ball properly let alone make a decent attempt at the putt. It is easy to make mocking and derisory comments from the sidelines but maybe you should wait until you have walked in his shoes.
Mark,
I always liked PA's commentary up until about 10 years ago but I agree with you that a note of sourness has crept in recently. Time for him to retire I suspect.
Jon
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Does Sandy Lyle's putt creep back a little from right-to-left at the very end?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZXVFMoWrn8
Atb
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Two guys leading the Masters,-one with a Normanesque yoke around his legacy, shoot 7 under for 38 holes collectively,the best golf played as a twosome ALL day ....and somehow that's choking....... ???
A great Masters.
A great battle,
Great sportsmanship.
His putt on 16 went absolutely sideways and unless you risk running 10 feet by, is really, really hard to get speed and line exactly right.
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I just want to know how the hell traveling on Masters Sunday got so good. Watching on Masters.com in the car and then Southwest Wifi in the air.
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Does Sandy Lyle's putt creep back a little from right-to-left at the very end?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZXVFMoWrn8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZXVFMoWrn8)
Atb
I think the putt at the end of regulation was a straight putt that Sergio pushed right. He will always believe it should have broken left but fortunately he will not have to live with that putt for very long.
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Does Sandy Lyle's putt creep back a little from right-to-left at the very end?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZXVFMoWrn8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZXVFMoWrn8)
Atb
I think the putt at the end of regulation was a straight putt that Sergio pushed right. He will always believe it should have broken left but fortunately he will not have to live with that putt for very long.
Sorry, but that didn't look like a push, he played it right edge or just outside and hit it where he was aimed.
Hitting driver and playing a fade off 13 was a poor decision IMO. His strength is moving it right to left. This was the most exciting Masters in some time. Congrats El Nino.
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Sven,
It is easy to make mocking and derisory comments from the sidelines but maybe you should wait until you have walked in his shoes.
Jon
What mocking and derisory comments did I make on this thread other than to say it was a misread, which I consider hardly mocking or derisory.
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Having watched the first three rounds on Sky we were in a hotel in the Lakes, so had to watch on the BBC last night. Peter Alliss is now beyond a parody of himself and there's an unpleasant judgmental air that has come into his commentary which makes him unpleasant, rather than merely annoying, to listen too. Time to retire, Peter, while some of us remember how good you were a long time ago.
Even at his best Alliss was only a poor man's Longhurst. And you can see from his commentary why all the golf courses he's been involved with 'designing' are lousy -- every time a ball lands near a hole and rolls away down a slope or because the green is firm it's unfair or wrong.
I have a very strong affection for Peter Alliss and think we will miss him greatly when he is gone. As has been pointed out many times before, Alliss succeeds in that he brings the setting to life and lets the golf do most of the talking. I don't care much for pundits who overanalyse swings and use hyperbole in every sentence. Additionally, his voice is smooth as silk. I am of the 'younger' generation, and agree with Ken Brown who said there will never be another like Mr. Alliss. I'll take him, Mr. Brown and Ms. Irvine any day of the week.
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I'm thinking (hoping) Sergio offers up an outstanding selection of Tapas (paella can be one course) at next years Champions Dinner, washed down with Castillo d’Ygay Gran Reserva Especial Rioja.
Danny Willet went with the 2012 Caymus, an excellent choice.
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In the spirit of the thread, I suggest a shot of Patron.
Patron and Pimento
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Hitting driver and playing a fade off 13 was a poor decision IMO. His strength is moving it right to left.
Pretty sure he was playing a power fade all week, including on 13.
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Hitting driver and playing a fade off 13 was a poor decision IMO. His strength is moving it right to left.
Pretty sure he was playing a power fade all week, including on 13.
A decision he had used all week
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Sergio hit his putt on 72nd exactly where he aimed it. Not sure how he could have misread it so badly but don't think it was a choke. And he made a number of clutch shots earlier...and later. He won because, over the course of 19 holes, he was the steadier player. I am happy for him. He is a deserving champion.
Justin Rose has been a personal favorite of mine. Beautiful swing, thoughtful, and articulate. He had the green jacket in his hands but couldn't put it on. But the class he displayed during the round, and in losing, is exemplary. I admire him even more now. He will win another major.
Spieth hit the nail on the head when he said performing under such pressure requires acceptance that doing what is necessary to win will sometimes lead to defeat. He was undone, it seemed, by trying to be too aggressive on many approach shots and too aggressive on his putting lines, trying to take out the break. Perhaps he had decided that, given the conditions, Garcia and Rose were likely to shoot in the 60s, meaning he had to be in the mid-60s to have a chance. Spieth went for the win but didn't have the precision to carry it off.
The tone of the coverage IS cloying...and correspondingly annoying...at times. Worse yet, it is often not all that insightful. For me, Dottie Pepper and Peter Kostis are the best of the lot. I prefer either to Faldo. Although Lundquist has made some great calls over the years, he has lost a step. Time to retire gracefully.
As for ANGC, it may not be perfect from an architectural standpoint...and much of Mac's original design is long gone...but it proves to be an incredible stage year after year. In this year's difficult, and varying, conditions, the course rewarded excellence even while providing a stiff challenge. The people who set up the course do a marvelous job...even if they do have an unlimited budget and set an example that can't, and shouldn't, be emulated elsewhere.
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In spite of many past efforts to undo it, the genius of the Mac routing over challenging terrain lives on ..............
The broadcast is tolerable only because it is once a year and the viewer knows what to expect. Way to painful to repeat week after week ... or even a couple of times during the year.
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Of course he played a power fade all week. It only failed him a few times. Sergio has suffered over the years from a number of maladies, whether it's personality (a certain smugness and/or hubris, i.e., spitting in the cup at a tour event), an overly-wrought-preshot-milking-the-club routine and, of course, a halting, balking, fearful putting stroke. Stan Utley, among others has tried to assist in that regard.
But he's never lacked ball-striking talent. And he's always been the kind of guy that people pulled for, especially as his major drought went on. Like many, I cheered for the guy. I wanted him to win more and I wanted him to win yesterday. When he got to the two-shot lead after the fifth hole (IIRC), I really thought he was going to seize the moment. But then he missed at least three makeable putts from around 5 feet or so, and he missed them in the old Sergio way, with a weak stroke that pushed the ball wobbling to the left or right in a manner that suggested nerves (uh, duh, of course he was nervous) or a badly read line.
A lot of players missed putts yesterday. But Sergio had this tournament in his grasp and he almost let it slip away. So did Norman, back in the day. So did Spieth, just last year. It happens. But when it does, I simply don't think there's anything wrong with making the observation or offering the judgment. I think commentators should do it more often. Johnny Miller (yeah, he annoys me too), is one of the few that will utter the word choke on a telecast.
The reason I got so pissed yesterday is that I was loudly cheering for Sergio. Not because I dislike Rose, but I emotionally wanted the Spaniard to get the goddamned monkey off his back. When he missed makeable putts, I was screaming at the television. When Rose missed at 18 and, in a very gentlemanly fashion, finished out without marking his ball, giving Garcia his moment, I was shocked at Rose's miss, but felt that Sergio could finally expiate his angst-ridden history at the majors. Then he shove-wobbled the putt to the right. It was a stroke like one I've made hundreds of times when faced with an important putt. Their combined experience at the 18th green was incredibly familiar to me, as I've observed grown men puking over five footers for decades at various club events that I've played in. It happens. But this was to win a Green Jacket. This reminded me instantly of Doug Sanders in the 1970 Open Championship when he shingled his 18 inch putt and lost the Championship.
I'm sure that most of you continued to watch the playoff. I was so steamed at both of these great professionals that I took the dog for a long walk. I haven't even looked at any of the video of the playoff hole but heard about Rose's troubles off the tee and learned that Sergio stiffed yet another iron and had an easy two-putt for the victory. It was heartening to hear that he made the birdie putt, because I wouldn't have wanted the putter in his hands if he needed to make a comebacker if it lipped out and trundled down the green.
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Hitting driver and playing a fade off 13 was a poor decision IMO. His strength is moving it right to left.
Pretty sure he was playing a power fade all week, including on 13.
A decision he had used all week
Right, that's what I meant by "all week." ;)
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As the owner of 4K UHD TV, I was impressed with Direct TV's coverage on " Amen Corner" & 15/16. The picture is much sharper than regular HD. Other than the picture quality, the same old, same old traditional stuff. I didn't get a Patron or even a Ketel as I prefer Kirkland.
We all should have followed Ben Crenshaw's advice after playing a round with Sergio last week and bet on Sergio.
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He doesn't hit a high flail out to the right for a miss. It was greedy, 3w and 6i real simple. He needed a 1-2 shot cushion coming in due to his weak putting. Need loft off 13 tee
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The guy just won the Masters and this thread is full of guys who want to tell him how he *should have* played the course this week. God bless the Internet.
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Sergio was 30-1 to win in Vegas. Next time, listen to Crenshaw.
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The guy just won the Masters and this thread is full of guys who want to tell him how he *should have* played the course this week. God bless the Internet.
Gotta love the exaggerations. The course no, the 13th hole on sunday yes. What did he hit on Saturday? With his immense talent I hope he wins more. The point of my post wasn't the 18th green that everyone is focusing on but the course management off the 13th tee. Maybe a discussion group isn't for you?
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The guy just won the Masters and this thread is full of guys who want to tell him how he *should have* played the course this week. God bless the Internet.
Seriously. I can't decide what's more ridiculous - a 10 handicap giving course management advice to a guy still wearing the green jacket he slept in last night, or a no-name architecture firm posting photos of how they'd like to alter the aesthetics of the world's most recognizable golf course. Either way, I'm rolling my eyes.
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Sergio was 30-1 to win in Vegas. Next time, listen to Crenshaw.
40-1 before DJ withdrew... when I put $10 on him ;D
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Does Sandy Lyle's putt creep back a little from right-to-left at the very end?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZXVFMoWrn8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZXVFMoWrn8)
Atb
Reference various comments posted above and for comparison purposes, here's Sergio Garcia's putt on the 72nd hole - see 1 min 50 secs -
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Aif7X1eV5Pg
Well done in the end Sergio. Terrific victory on what would have been Seve's 60th birthday too. Well played and great sportsmanship from Justin Rose as well.
Atb
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How many years old are the flyovers that CBS is using? Their flyover of the 18th hole, which was shown just before the playoff started, includes the elevated press/photo bleachers to the left of the 18th green right beside the TV towers. I am pretty sure that this bleacher has not been up for about five years.
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A pair of chokers down the stretch which was oddly fitting as it seemed nobody could make a putt all day. Sergio's miss on 18 in regulation was as bad as I've seen in a long time. The Mutt Masters.
Are you using a pipe or are you on the needle? Garcia's clutch putts on 13, 14, & 15 (first eagle on 15 by a winner in 23 years) don't count but his pars on 16 & 18 were chokes?
Really funny and really true...if Rose and Garcia are chokers on the basis of this performance, then I shudder to think what a mind like that thinks of Spieth, Phil, McIlroy, Ricky and Adam Scott...they must really, really suck. Matsuyama, Kaymer, Kutcher, frauds all of them, and the biggest choker of all - Freddie Boom-Boom Couples - why is he even playing, if he can't ever turn in a weekend performance better than that; he shouldn't have even won in 1992, the ball stayed on the bank.
Yeah Garcia and Rose, they are chokers, mutts... that's why most every man cries when he wins it the first time
As to the coverage? It's the best watch in every regard, every year.
I love the term patrons; I eat up the syrup; I always did and I probably ever will...it IS (imo) the most unique and special of the four professional majors; it IS about the traditions of game, the club and the tournament, who founded it, how it was run, how it was shown, the jacket, the champions dinner, the career-long entry into the tournament, the ceremonial tee shot, the monuments to great stars...
How different Freddy Couples career and Langer's reputation if they didn't win here...they would be out of your mind and anonymously ensconced in their Senior fortunes. Ask John Daly if he wouldn't have rather won here than even an Open at St. Andrews; it may have put his memory down in a much better way, if HE had a place to go to each year, to be influenced by the great champions of the game. Of ALL his many miserable defeats, tell me that Greg Norman's failures here did not define him with twice the measure of his two major wins and scores of tournament victories.
If you think the Masters culture is silly, craven or worthy of tiresome annual protest than you likely think the same of golf in your heart of hearts, because everything about the Masters culture holds golf, the reverence of golf and its great players in a shining and heroic light. Whatever honor there is to be had in the playing of a game, they announce. Whatever is good about the recreation and character of the game and its past, is held up high.
In the world at large Arnold Palmer is a good man, though flawed like the rest of us. In the Masters' world, he was first crowned as a King, without blemish. I don't know if the hardest of hard boiled stories are true about Palmer, but in the non-Masters world, the stories make him no more or no less a golfer, thing or human to be respected than Tiger, who blows his competitive record AWAY.
I too am not impressed with anyone but Faldo and Baker-Finch; I wish they had a better Hole Tower roster, but to hate (yes, "hate") on this is like throwing a hammer at the David.
cheers
vk
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Wayne, the flyovers date to 2012, at least on the 18th. The press stand was not there in 2013 because Augusta decided it didn't look good. GWAA has complained about that without success.
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The guy just won the Masters and this thread is full of guys who want to tell him how he *should have* played the course this week. God bless the Internet.
Gotta love the exaggerations. The course no, the 13th hole on sunday yes. What did he hit on Saturday? With his immense talent I hope he wins more. The point of my post wasn't the 18th green that everyone is focusing on but the course management off the 13th tee. Maybe a discussion group isn't for you?
On Saturday, he hit the same shot (driver with a fade), killed it, and made birdie.
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The guy just won the Masters and this thread is full of guys who want to tell him how he *should have* played the course this week. God bless the Internet.
Gotta love the exaggerations. The course no, the 13th hole on sunday yes. What did he hit on Saturday? With his immense talent I hope he wins more. The point of my post wasn't the 18th green that everyone is focusing on but the course management off the 13th tee. Maybe a discussion group isn't for you?
He played it exactly the same way on Saturday. And Thursday and Friday for that matter. It's just that on each of those occasions his fade went over the trees, rather than catching them. And he hasn't hit a draw for years. His stock shot now is a fade.[/size]
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The guy just won the Masters and this thread is full of guys who want to tell him how he *should have* played the course this week. God bless the Internet.
Gotta love the exaggerations. The course no, the 13th hole on sunday yes. What did he hit on Saturday? With his immense talent I hope he wins more. The point of my post wasn't the 18th green that everyone is focusing on but the course management off the 13th tee. Maybe a discussion group isn't for you?
He played it exactly the same way on Saturday. And Thursday and Friday for that matter. It's just that on each of those occasions his fade went over the trees, rather than catching them. And he hasn't hit a draw for years. His stock shot now is a fade.
Precisely. As Sergio himself said in various interviews this week. But there will always be people who remember him hitting a draw a decade ago convinced they know best.
Anyway, sort of more to the point. It's not like Sergio doesn't understand that the hole prefers a right-to-left shot. So if he's playing the hole with a cut and aiming over the trees (as he did all four days this week) he's doing so because he has decided the inherent risks of that shot are preferable to the risks of trying to hit a draw, which isn't his preferred shot anymore.
This is an inherent hazard of MMQB'ing a golfer's game. Even if you watched every broadcasted shot Sergio hit this week, you didn't see him in the practice rounds or on the range or every drive he hit in competition and out over the months as he got ready to play this tournament.
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Hitting driver and playing a fade off 13 was a poor decision IMO. His strength is moving it right to left.
Pretty sure he was playing a power fade all week, including on 13.
A decision he had used all week
Right, that's what I meant by "all week." ;)
That reading comprehension thing again ;D
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The guy just won the Masters and this thread is full of guys who want to tell him how he *should have* played the course this week. God bless the Internet.
Seriously. I can't decide what's more ridiculous - a 10 handicap giving course management advice to a guy still wearing the green jacket he slept in last night, or a no-name architecture firm posting photos of how they'd like to alter the aesthetics of the world's most recognizable golf course. Either way, I'm rolling my eyes.
Jason,
I was a plus in my day. :-* Lets play this summer for a grand... A guy with the skill set of Sergio should have 3 or 4 majors already.
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I'm thinking of what Henry Longhurst might've said if he was still with us and still covering the Masters. He'd probably say nothing for a long time, as the pictures of Sergio's emotional celebration and the cheers of the crowd played on. Then:
"And here again is that youthful exuberance we first saw at Medinah, oh so many years ago..."
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Hitting driver and playing a fade off 13 was a poor decision IMO. His strength is moving it right to left.
Pretty sure he was playing a power fade all week, including on 13.
A decision he had used all week
Right, that's what I meant by "all week." ;)
That reading comprehension thing again ;D
;D ;D ;D
I think driver off the tee on 13 for someone who hits a low fade is a poor club choice. Greedy. It's kinda like Norman doubling the 11th at 86 PGA at Inverness the easiest par 4 on the course from the middle of the fairway, from a fairway divot, but folks remembering the Tway bunker shot.
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Hitting driver and playing a fade off 13 was a poor decision IMO. His strength is moving it right to left.
Pretty sure he was playing a power fade all week, including on 13.
A decision he had used all week
Right, that's what I meant by "all week." ;)
That reading comprehension thing again ;D
;D ;D ;D
I think driver of the tee on 13 for someone who hits a low fade is a poor club choice. Greedy. It's kinda like Norman doubling the 11th at 86 PGA at Inverness the easiest par 4 on the course from the middle of the fairway, from a fairway divot, but folks remembering the Tway bunker shot.
He pulled it off the day before...
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He had a hanging lie and almost put his 2nd in the drink, I recall from watching replay? It's all percentages amd he can hit his 3 wood as far as most can hit their driver. JMO.
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Hitting driver and playing a fade off 13 was a poor decision IMO. His strength is moving it right to left.
Pretty sure he was playing a power fade all week, including on 13.
A decision he had used all week
Right, that's what I meant by "all week." ;)
That reading comprehension thing again ;D
;D ;D ;D
I think driver off the tee on 13 for someone who hits a low fade is a poor club choice. Greedy. It's kinda like Norman doubling the 11th at 86 PGA at Inverness the easiest par 4 on the course from the middle of the fairway, from a fairway divot, but folks remembering the Tway bunker shot.
I agree and was surprised at the choice on Saturday. But not because his strength is moving it right to left.
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Ben,
Bob Rosberg was on-course commentating when Norman made the 6 at 11 in the 86 PGA.
I think it was Jim McKay who asked Rosberg if there was any reason for the poor wedge shot.
'No - he had a perfect lie'
Someone wasn't telling the truth.
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"Golf is tough; I don't know if you've ever played it. But writing articles is easy," Bubba Watson
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Ben,
Bob Rosberg was on-course commentating when Norman made the 6 at 11 in the 86 PGA.
I think it was Jim McKay who asked Rosberg if there was any reason for the poor wedge shot.
'No - he had a perfect lie'
Someone wasn't telling the truth.
;D ;D ;D
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Did anyone hear this disgusting comment live? My Dad is 86...Wow. http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/golf-announcer-under-fire-for-leering-at-short-skirt-on-sergio-garcia-fiancee/
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My wife was watching the tournament with me and said that she thought the cameras pulled away from Garcia and Akins as they were walking off of the 18th just so they could show Akins' legs and short skirt. So are they sexist bums? I guess so. So would Alliss' comments be considered less "disgusting" if they had been uttered by a younger man?
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A more interesting story would have been if she was denied entry into the clubhouse because she violated the dress code. Which she would have at almost every club in America.
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But it was the shortest skirt on campus. When being accurate equates to being sexist, you can bring me the check because it's time to go.
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From 2.5 million viewers 1 complained. Some people just want to be offended whether they are or not.
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But it was the shortest skirt on campus. When being accurate equates to being sexist, you can bring me the check because it's time to go.
Being accurate don't cut it in the world of ism's.
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A more interesting story would have been if she was denied entry into the clubhouse because she violated the dress code. Which she would have at almost every club in America.
She'd be more than welcome at The Bridge....
or anywhere else I play
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But it was the shortest skirt on campus. When being accurate equates to being sexist, you can bring me the check because it's time to go.
Being accurate don't cut it in the world of ism's.
Almost nothing does.
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At least we can still see a Spaniard in public and make bull fighting references. Can't wait to try that out next time I'm in a bar. Toro, toro...where's your cape. Toro, toro.
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My post above is in reference to Sergio being called a matador during the last day coverage. He looks like an animal lover to me. I can't think of a more offensive actual sporting reference.
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My post above is in reference to Sergio being called a matador during the last day coverage. He looks like an animal lover to me. I can't think of a more offensive actual sporting reference.
Surely some romance in our language can remain unmolested.
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Call it what you want, his read on a short putt to win a major had it breaking the wrong way.
As I wrote on another thread, a friend played Monday. He broke 80 from Masters tees and has won several national and international events. He tried the Sergio put on 18 5 times and could not make it. He said it was a very tricky putt on a ridge.
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Hello;
A parting word on Garcia's win, posted here rather than a new OT thread...
I have disliked Sergio's style, his quips, his pronouncements, his fatigue at his shortcomings broadcast in the spotlight. He seemed like a guy who felt he deserved, was entitled to the glory and the millions won, but resented that spotlight, when it wasn't feting him.
But in the canon of competitive golf, this was St. George slaying a handful of specific, fire-breathing dragons...his incredible iron-play sought to fail him (#10)? he kept on... his incredible driving failed him (#11)?...he kept on... his most incendiary dragon--putting--singed him (#16, #18 reg.)...he kept on...
And that greatest of internal demons --the self -- he finally conquered, for truly, right in the middle of the most stressful middle of the round, he embraced humility and bad fortune with a game-seasoned, responsible character he rarely had shown in two decades...he displayed his true worthiness NOT when he made birdies on 14 and eagle on 15...but when he made three "5s" out of trouble... on # 10, #11 and #13; in the middle of it, playing #12 as Nicklaus Hogan and every sage of the game has directed.
By taking medicine and being patient, he kept faith with his enormous talent, embraced and understood the game is not one of great shots, but handling those poor results which everyone receives--not as some defeating "fate," but the challenge THAT day.
The Sergio I used to know, would not have gone 5-5-3-5 = 18 on those first four back nine holes, with those shot results ...More like 6-6-4-4 = 20, and even the top results on 14 and 15 would have been a desperate footnote to what might have been remembered as Rose's easy win.
So many times in his career, he came up to errant shots like on those three holes (10, 11, and 13) and cursed the world, the fans, the gods, and anyone else. Sunday, he held his mind to the task at hand...the best possible recovery and the safest, number he could cap at...5. He was tested again, when he missed a short putt in regulation to win it...did you notice the moment of churlish anger...but the quick recovery to an even posture.
When a guy with HIS history comes up to those shots at 10, 11 and 13, while Rose is nearly "steady as she goes"...my god the mind can spin that the Fates have damned one for a flaw in his character, and are seeking humiliation once again...but he kept his cool, kept it to 5 on 10; that was the hardest one, given the conditions... then kept his cool on 11 in the left bramble, was deliberate and serious about that recovery, and hit a beautiful, running shot that maximized safety and the best possible chance to make 4, while keeping an easy 5...
...Then 13, which was the 5 that broke him through, where the worm turned (Rose 3-putting)and permitted the later good fortune to mean something...Can you imagine what he thought on that drive on 13...he's fought his balls off, kept faith, didn't blow up and this is his reward? He had to think that with Rose likely on in 2, and him staring a 6 in the face... once again, he does not have what it takes...
As a lover of golf on the ground and on air, this performance was a great entertainment, and the fine culmination of an entertaining tournament week. This all is why I watch.
cheers
vk
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A more interesting story would have been if she was denied entry into the clubhouse because she violated the dress code. Which she would have at almost every club in America.
She'd be more than welcome at The Bridge....
or anywhere else I play
Rumor has it that she has been invited to thee Goat Invitational along with Sergio this Fall. Will have to make an effort to make it out for this years Invitational. She water ski's over she gets mulligans, right Commish?
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Hello;
A parting word on Garcia's win, posted here rather than a new OT thread...
I have disliked Sergio's style, his quips, his pronouncements, his fatigue at his shortcomings broadcast in the spotlight. He seemed like a guy who felt he deserved, was entitled to the glory and the millions won, but resented that spotlight, when it wasn't feting him.
But in the canon of competitive golf, this was St. George slaying a handful of specific, fire-breathing dragons...his incredible iron-play sought to fail him (#10)? he kept on... his incredible driving failed him (#11)?...he kept on... his most incendiary dragon--putting--singed him (#16, #18 reg.)...he kept on...
And that greatest of internal demons --the self -- he finally conquered, for truly, right in the middle of the most stressful middle of the round, he embraced humility and bad fortune with a game-seasoned, responsible character he rarely had shown in two decades...he displayed his true worthiness NOT when he made birdies on 14 and eagle on 15...but when he made three "5s" out of trouble... on # 10, #11 and #13; in the middle of it, playing #12 as Nicklaus Hogan and every sage of the game has directed.
By taking medicine and being patient, he kept faith with his enormous talent, embraced and understood the game is not one of great shots, but handling those poor results which everyone receives--not as some defeating "fate," but the challenge THAT day.
The Sergio I used to know, would not have gone 5-5-3-5 = 18 on those first four back nine holes, with those shot results ...More like 6-6-4-4 = 20, and even the top results on 14 and 15 would have been a desperate footnote to what might have been remembered as Rose's easy win.
So many times in his career, he came up to errant shots like on those three holes (10, 11, and 13) and cursed the world, the fans, the gods, and anyone else. Sunday, he held his mind to the task at hand...the best possible recovery and the safest, number he could cap at...5. He was tested again, when he missed a short putt in regulation to win it...did you notice the moment of churlish anger...but the quick recovery to an even posture.
When a guy with HIS history comes up to those shots at 10, 11 and 13, while Rose is nearly "steady as she goes"...my god the mind can spin that the Fates have damned one for a flaw in his character, and are seeking humiliation once again...but he kept his cool, kept it to 5 on 10; that was the hardest one, given the conditions... then kept his cool on 11 in the left bramble, was deliberate and serious about that recovery, and hit a beautiful, running shot that maximized safety and the best possible chance to make 4, while keeping an easy 5...
...Then 13, which was the 5 that broke him through, where the worm turned (Rose 3-putting)and permitted the later good fortune to mean something...Can you imagine what he thought on that drive on 13...he's fought his balls off, kept faith, didn't blow up and this is his reward? He had to think that with Rose likely on in 2, and him staring a 6 in the face... once again, he does not have what it takes...
As a lover of golf on the ground and on air, this performance was a great entertainment, and the fine culmination of an entertaining tournament week. This all is why I watch.
cheers
vk
Bravo. Well said.