Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Peter Pallotta on October 30, 2015, 11:16:31 PM
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Whether you were a wee youngster out with your mom/dad/grandparent, or a teenager or young person just falling in love with the game, if you played any significant amount of golf back in the 60s and early 70s, I'd enjoy reading your memories and reflections on your experiences back then.
Any aspect you'd like to focus on is fine, but I'd be most interested in what you really remember about those hours on the course. What were the fairways like, and the greens? Were the older folks friendly and welcoming? Did it cost a lot? Were most golfers any better/worse than most golfers today? How much time might you spend on the course, and then off the course -- was there food and drink to be had? Did people dress funny? How far was your Best Drive Ever back then? Did you lose a lot of golf balls, and/or find them? A sawed-off set of irons for you, or a brand new set? Were birdies harder to come by? Which brand of irons or woods did you use, and/or do you remember being popular? And now, looking back, through the filters of time and personal narratives and the subsequent ups and downs of life, what stands out for you the most?
Peter
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Ha ha! One thing I remember is being concerned about the cost of golf balls, typically buying 65 cent Acushnet Specials. I found a Titleist 100 and played a few holes with it, loved the soft feel. So I asked my old pro, "do those balls cut easily?" Classic retort: "How would I know?"
There was nothing like the sound and feel of a persimmon driver whacking the ball. I've never liked the sound of the metal drivers.
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Bill - if we get to meet and play some golf together next summer, I will bring along a set of almost pristine Hogan persimmons for you to play with, 1-3-5 woods! (I will play with a slightly more forgiving set of Ping Eye woods...)
Peter
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Peter,
Three brothers lived a block from my house, their dad and uncle were very good golfers.
We were all peers, with one brother a year older, another a year younger and the third brother my age.
We were a perfect foursome, highly competitive, but, we enjoyed each others company and had tons of fun.
Over the weekend I'll recall some stories.
One caveat.
It was in the 50's
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After being a driving range rat for a few years, I ventured on to a real golf course for the first time in the summer of 1961 with my ragtag bag and assorted golf clubs and old balls that my father gave me 2 years earlier. Needless to say, I was excited to play the famous Philadelphia muni- Juniata GC. As my friends and I approached the first tee, we saw this:
(http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Juniata/mediafiles/l2.jpg)
As you can see, courtesy of Joe Bausch's photo, it's still around only with much more grass than I remember, downhill and hard as concrete. Some of the "old guys" of the course who hung around the first tee told us it really didn't matter what club we used so I took out my trusty 5iron and and hit a worm burner that rolled down the hill and wound in front of the green. Yes, the beginning of my golfing career began...
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Peter
I would advise you to use the crack gca.com search engine first, given that the geezers such as we have answered this question many times before.
Rich
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I remember going to Rock Creek Park in Washington, D.C. with my brother and a couple of friends from the neighborhood. We would schlepp our clubs on two busses and walk up the hill to the course from Military Road. The tees had absolutely zero grass and were as hard as could be. We were teenagers, though and would head out there with a sleeve of Acushnet Club Specials and have a blast.
The other thing I remember was in 1965 at Lakewood CC in Rockville Md, there was a thing called the National Challenge Match. It was 54 holes and featured "The Big Three" playing against each other in medal play, and the top 3 amateurs of the time, Dean Beman, Dale Morey, and Bill Campbell having their own 54 hole medal play match. Each pro was paired with an am.
I went out the first day and followed Palmer and Dale Morey. I was 14 years old loved golf, and had a blast. Number one at Lakewood was a short par four, and after his drive, Palmer hit this amazing low wedge shot that hit the green, took one hop, and stopped 18 inches from the pin. I was in awe. He was the consummate showman.
I got autographs that day from everyone except Bill Campbell because, quite honestly, I did not, at the time, know who he was.
Funny how you can remember things from 50 years ago!
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My dad let me pull his pull cart when i was 7 (1956)
He bought me a used and mixed set for my 9th birthday and let me play with him and my uncle on weekend mornings.
Random memories:
Loving my Sandy MacDonald Niblick. I could hit it out of the deepest grass.
Throwing away all the ugly old fashioned balls that were in the golf bag. Square dimples? Strange names? Floaters? Too old fashioned for me. Alas, all discarded.
Being first to the course, still in the dark, and drinking hot chocolate in the clubhouse while waiting for my Uncle to say, ok lets go start.
Loving the idea of stymies, which my uncle insisted we play. Always match play, nickle a hole. Expensive since my allowance was $1 per week! If I was out of the hole but could stymie my uncle to make the skin a carryover then my Dad would give me a nickle.
By the age of 13 my favorite holes were already the risk reward holes. Gamble on the drive for an easy par if you pull it off, or play it safe for the sure bogey but much more difficult par.
Loving the walking. Only the rich or snobs paid for riding carts.
Loving match play. And the wagering with friends to add to your spending money. My favorite was when a buddy wanted to play me for a DOLLAR if I would give him five strokes. I offered to play him left handed if he gave ME five strokes. We rented LH clubs and I shot 44, beating him 4 and 3!
I can't remember what the green fees were, but I remember that in 1963 my Dad bought a season's family pass for $350, good at any of six different local courses. This was Western Michigan, and we had 22 courses within 15 miles of our house.
Once I hit a 7 iron almost 60 degrees right of my target. It bounced off the clubhouse roof and landed between the legs of a man teeing off on number one. He picked up the ball, whirled and threw it towards my green, and it went into the hole. I claimed it was a hole-in-one but they wouldn't allow it.
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My dad was the head pro at Deal G$CC.
There were tall hedges that ran around the golf course property, all on the right hand side.
On number 2 and 12, we used to ball hawk along those hedges to find balls.
Red Tourneys, Blue Max's, Titleist, and the rare Hogan!
There is a little rise in the fairway on number 1 at Deal. I can still remember the first time
I hit a drive that carried that hill! It was probably 150 yards to the top. Being able to carry that
hill was a rite of passage
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Dunlop Warwick/65, Spalding Dot, Maxfli, Slazenger, Uniroyal, Staff, Penfold. Half-sets of clubs. Blades. Persimmon/laminated wood heads. Irons marked 1, 2 and 3. Flanged SW was max loft club. Leather golf bags. Flat caps. Knitted wool bobble hats. Pull trolleys with narrow spoked wheels. Leaky golf shoes/molded sweaty golf shoes. Thin plastic waterproofs. Multi-colour gloves. Leather, knitted or old socks headcovers. Greens cut once/twice per week by hand mower. Uncut rough. Fairways grazed by animals. Irrigation (if any) by hosepipe/bowser. Gang mowers towed by tractors. Heavyweight metal pins. Bunkers without rakes. Rubber tee mats. Shag bags. That'll do.
atb
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Late 70s foe me, but anyway.
Those cheap plastic golf shoes or leather golf shoes that took weeks to break in and cut your heels up.
Dunlop 65's, "optic" golf balls. Finding a brand new Titliest or Top Flite XL.
The "whipping". Blades. Pringles jumpers. Farahs. Peter Storms. [size=78%]Being dropped off by parents at 8am with sarnies and 50p. [/size]
The Junior Medal on a Wednesday.
And, the only things that mattered were your score and handicap.
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Peter,
A number of things stand out.
1. The ability to "move" the ball.
2. The poor quality of the ball.
Wound, non solid balls and the
Lack of quality control, resulted in
Difficiencies in Compression and
roundness
3. Lack of quality control on loft and
Lie
The impact on play was considerable.
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8) Autograph Chick Harbert irons (3-5-7-9) & 1,2,& 3 Eye-O-Matic Woods and a favored Macgregor 4 wood... who wouldn't want to be like the Bomber?!!!
$0.50 cent rounds before 10 am at Ottawa Park, getting dropped off at Proshop, waiting hours, Dudley hotdog and soft ice cream at the 11th tee for another $0.50, playing across the course on way home avoiding the marshal, baseball or swimming in afternoon, cut a lawn for a week's costs...
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8) early 1960's... taking a shag bag to go practice with my dad
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Peter,
The thing I remember about golf in the 1960s as a kid is grumpy old men. I mean that quite seriously. Kids were treated like second class citizens who had no business being on the golf course.
Those guys were beautiful. They taught us how to move.
Years later when I finally made it as an adult to play golf in Ireland, more than once it was suggested I was un-American.
Those grumpy old men had taught me how to move on a golf course and my Irish friends to be really appreciated it.
Too bad. All the grumpy old men are gone and the game in America is worse for it.
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Nobody remembers True Blue golf balls or Titleists in "quilted" boxes? Corfam golf shoes? Munsingwear shirts?
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Powerbilt persimmon woods that I always forgot to take the headcover off after a damp round that would be swollen the next day. I also remember when aluminum shafts came in,those were the days.
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What I remember is how far the long hitters hit it compared to the short hitters We had guys that hit it forever with balata and the early surlyn balls, steel shafts and persimmon. It also helped that fairway irrigation was not prevalent. Fairways were longer as were the greens. I remember the uproar when Titleist increased the price of balls to $1.35 each- we routinely bought balls one at a time. No one had money for a dozen! In the early 70's all good players used Hogan or Wilson Staff irons.
I lived in a place- Duluth MN- where junior golf was encouraged and the older men were our mentors and heroes. We had jobs at the golf course-unpaid- in exchange for free golf. Workers comp laws today prevent such. We lived at the muni. The lady running the snack bar made a fortune off of us! Everybody walked. There were no carts. I remember Corfam golf shoes. hogan SunJet bags. Wicked slices and diving duck hooks. Smiling golf balls. Cracked necks on real woods. Knowing how to re whip your woods. Pinned iron and wood shafts. It was a hoot!
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Thanks, gents. I was looking forward to reading your stories. Please keep them coming. (Btw, and not that it applies here, just something I find interesting: I read once -- though I don't know if it is true -- that old time psychiatrists would always ask a new patient for their earliest childhood memory, the theory being that what adults remembered was not so much a memory of the past as a signifier of their present state of mind, e.g. the earliest memories a deeply unhappy adult were usually unhappy ones; but after working through their challenges/problems, that same adult might find, when asked later about an earliest childhood memory, that he/she remembered an entirely different -- and happier -- one.)
Tim - "Too bad. All the grumpy old men are gone and the game in America is worse for it". That's a great line, and a wonderful observation.
Patrick - I never realized that the equipment issues were so severe. It really makes Byron Nelson's scoring average in 1945 truly stunning - I think he averaged per 18 holes just a fraction over 68 in winning 18 times and 11 in a row. It took until the T Woods' era to better that.
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Tom,
rewhipping woods-I had forgotten about that.
I was doing that as late as 1991-$5 a rewhip-first one was a nightmare but got pretty good after that
Green victory grips
Sarazen reminder grips
never really used leather grips but they were around-distinct clank in the bag
bullseye putters-used my old bladed one this spring for a week and made everything
acushnet club special
spalding dots
red maxes
big sweeping hooks-trees on the right side were always in my way
putting on uncut greens in the dew-the greatest way to learn break ever
Cutting school with my parent's permission to see all three practice days of The Masters-1975, Jack, Johnny Miller Weiskoph
teeing off at 7 without checking in, then teeing off at 10 with whoever showed up
drinking cokes in 95 degree weather and somehow surviving
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I remember playing a 9 hole course in commack Long Island where my dad would take me for a lesson and a morning...I think it was called commack hills...it was rock hard
In our foursome was a guy who was a chain smoker and swung with a lit cigarette in his mouth on basically any and every shot...even as a young kid, I could tell he had a terrible swing
I liked the game so I started shagging balls at garden city country club...back then, kids were the range machines...your job was to make sure the ball didn't hit you and put it in a leather bag...2 bucks a bag...sometimes there would be two golfers on the range at the same time....amazing that was a job for a kid but definitely kept you alert! It was a definite upgrade to become a putter caddie
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Peter,
The Pros had their clubs carefully calibrated and the balls they used went through additional quality control points.
I had a client make me a plastic tube milled to five one thousandths of an inch larger than a golf ball. (1.685)
And I had a compression machine.
Rarely did a ball, fresh out of the package, pass through the tube.
And when they did it was a Titleist or a Hogan.
Rarely did balls listed as 90 or 100 compression come close to those numbers, with 70-80 being the norm.
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Toney Penna woods earned at the Beverly CC caddy banquet- boy were they sweet. The number 1 caddy received a full set of Penna woods, irons and a Mcgregor bag and Tourney golf balls- sadly I never made it to number 1 caddy:(
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Peter, DOB 1945
Jr Member at Portland GC, mostly would play 1st 6 holes, then 8 after I could confident clear a lake and not lose a ball.
Following the pro tours when they were in town, local tour caddying.
Playing with my dad and his friends in the summertime, being driven to NLE courses.
In college towing my golf bag behind my bicycle. Playing Rock Creek n DC, Gatlinburg and having no knowledge of architects.
Playing Moore Park in Sydney during R&R from Nam
Getting back in one piece and immediately heading south to play Pebble and Spyglass.
Finding the 'World Atlas of Golf led to
1975 - turning down opportunity to get on Masters' waiting list.
First trip with dad Harbour Town, Dunes, #2, Troon, Prestwick, Turnberry, St Andrews, N Berwick, Gullane,
helpful caddies, the small ball went forever.
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I started playing at age 19 in 1975, we had an 18 hole night lighted pitch and putt with holes ranging from 120 to 60 yards. They gave you 9 iron ball and putter, great way to get people into the game, sadly it closed two years ago. I moved up to the local muni the next year sneaking on the 4 th hole which was down the hill from the clubhouse. I paid the $200 all year membership the next year. We were a Ross course who had lost 9 holes to a new highway. They asked that the new holes be of "championship" caliber and that's what they built, we had two 460 yard par 4's, one steeply uphill for its second half and the other had a creek 230 yards off the tee. There were only a handful of golfers who could carry it; those holes were both changed to par 5's giving us a 6780 yard par 74 course. Back then we didn't know or care about architects, the Ross cache hadn't kicked in as yet, but we did notice that the old holes were all very interesting and could be played by all classes of golfers, the new ones were just a distance contest. Our course was unirrigated and rock hard in the summertime, we had two holes with water hazards 250 yards off the tee and we would all hit 3 wood to avoid rolling in. They have since installed fairway irrigation and I can't come close to those hazards with a driver! I too played Achushent Club Specials and splurged on balata Titleists for big events. We were a true working mans club and like Tim said the grumpy old men kept you moving along; thank you grumpy old men! They all had their own carts which they paid rent to store at the club, it was a tough walk fo the over 65 crowd! The best part of our club was the weekend Pro Am, we picked an A, B, C & D player, you all chipped in a buck and went out to shoot the best net score, a very fun and quick format, you could just pick up if you were out of the hole. The team captain was responsible for par ring the difficult holes and the 18 handicaps had to make hay on the easy holes. After two summers you knew 80 golfers on a first name basis. I had Hagen Ultradyne II irons and woods that were made from exotic hardwoods from the Amazon rainforest, a console SW, and a Tommy Armour Ironmaster putter. We had great fun fun and yes we drank lots of beer when we finished playing with probably a Linguica sandwich or two!
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Peter --
You're asking us to write a book!
Say, there's an idea....
Dan
P.S. Possible title: "A Dot With a Smile: Remembering Golf As It Was."
P.P.S. I started with one club, a Christmas present: A Rawlings 6-iron. Learned to hit a golf ball playing cross-country golf around our yard, with wiffle golf balls. Those could develop smiles in a hurry, too -- and quickly taught me the importance of playing the wind!
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I learned with a cut down driver hitting shag balls in the old lumber yard across the street from my uncle's house (who taught my brother & I how to play). We hit whiffle golf balls to practice and had Lee Trevino plastic golf shoes.
My first set of clubs were hand-me-downs - Kroflite blade irons and a mismatched sets of woods; my favorite was a plastic headed 4 wood I really hit well. Balls - my uncle like "Blue Max's and Spalding's. The 100 compression balls were like hitting rocks and roots early in the spring and late in the year - it was difficult to get them airborne. My 1st balata I smiled horribly on the 2nd swing.
Cavity backed irons and metal woods made the game easier to play.
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Pete,
Since you asked, my very earliest memory was waking up when we got to our new house near Chicago, and running to the basement to see if my Lionel trains had arrived.
I remember a lot about my early golf. Neighbors members at Medinah...a few times on the range or that big putting clock before I played 3 holes on No. 2, then a "sneak on Monday" where we played all three courses......then, being relegated to public courses like Old Orchard, Rob Roy, Mt. Prospect muni (recently discussed and nearest to my house) to my utter disappointment that Dad wouldn't join the club! (I knew the difference, BTW, and had decided to be a gca after my first round at Medinah....I think I tell the whole story in my interview on this site)
As to greens on those public courses, I recall asking, and they were mowed at 1/4". Tees and bluegrass fairways at an inch if I recall correctly. Roughs 2-4 inches. Fairways green, roughs brownish late in summer, due to single row irrigation.
Patty Berg clubs for Xmas (age 12) and then MacGregor Tourney, with the split level sole (odd how that has changed) for better divot control, not to mention aluminum shafts! There was a discount golf shop over in Skokie and it was like being a kid in a candy store. Those lasted me until 1977 when my Xmas gift was custom clubs from a local maker. Sam Snead instruction book.
I would be remiss in not mentioning my first golf balls - The Po Do from Walgreens, usually picked up on the way to the course. I recall buying some more expensive "Faultless" cut proof golf balls advertised by Lee Trevino, much better than the Po Do. I did manage to cut one once. Sometimes, Dad would let me use his Spalding Dots.
Really heavy golf shoes, always blister inducers. I recall reading even Arnie got blisters and enjoyed them because he loved golf that much....
Read my first architecture article not long after I started playing. One was by Gary Player and I recall "One reachable, two in between and one true 3 shot par 4" as being a main point there. And the old HHWind article from Golf Digest, touting Ross chocolate drop mounds. I have asked before, but if anyone has scans of those, I would love to download for old time sake.
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I remember having to move after 8th grade because Dad changed jobs. I went from good athlete in small town to perfectly average athlete in very large town of Cherry Hill. I was last cut from high school basketball and baseball teams, so I guess I was looking for something to do and started swinging my fathers golf clubs.He joined Little Mill in the summer. I'd caddy for him on weekends and my mother would drop me off at the course on weekday mornings. I would play 36 or 54 holes almost every day if it wasn't crowded. I remember one day I started in a light drizzle which only got heavy as the day went on. But it was warm and I had the whole course to myself, so I played 72 holes. I always remember one swing with a soaking wet glove and a beat up old leather grip on my wooden shafted sand wedge... and the club went 30 yards in the air. Thank God I was a single, I might have killed someone!
He was a big smoker. Perhaps I was focused on finding his ball all day (he was REALLY wild) or studying the other golfers to learn how to play, but I said to him after one round: Dad, that was awesome, you didn't have a cigarette all day! He looked me and said are you crazy? I smoked a cigarette on every hole! Do you think that speaks to the greatness of golf: a kid can only see the good things and ignore the bad on a golf course?
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Played Crafton Public Golf Course, a 9 holer near Pittsburgh. Played with my Dad or my best friend TK. Had Wilson Staff woods and irons like Arnie. Wore black and white Pro Shoe spikes with large black flapping kilties, like Sam Snead.
The course was flat with a unique first tee. You paid your $1.50 fee at the shack, continued to the tee and placed your ball in the top of a tube, when it finally reached the bottom you were up. The tee was a square grassless fenced-in area with benches built into the fence. The benches were lined with all of the owners and playing partners of the countless balls ahead of yours in the tube. You always had a large audience on the first tee sitting and watching within 5 yards of your swing. You quickly learn that first tee jitters are a total waste of time, and always hoping for several muffled "nice shot" comments as you stride down the first fairway.
As a kid from "da Burgh," even with nine overcrowded holes and long waits on every tee ahead of me, it was Heaven.
And by the way, I can't count how many times I holed out on #9 with a 42 and beat Arnie, Gary and Jack to win the U.S. Open.
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I started in the late 50s carrying bags for my parents around McCall Field outside of Philadelphia. It was a course owned by Philadelphia Electric Company for use by employees (those were the days). As we would drive into the club it was my job to hop out of the car, put my father’s smiley Spalding dot ball in the starters golf ball rack and count how many balls were ahead of us.
When I turned 16 I bought my first set of clubs from the pro: a traded in set of Spalding registered irons and a magnificent set of Izett deep red persimmon 1 ½, 2 ½ and 3 ½ woods. Thirty years later I traded the irons with original grips to a collector for a much newer set of Wilsons with new grips. Two of the woods cracked and the 3rd just is gone. Now I pay good money for clubs with old hickory shafts. Go figure.
I was young and strong and could hit the ball up close to the green on the first hole about 1 in 20 times. I could hit Lynn Blvd, which paralleled the right side of the first fairway at least half the time. The course was only about 4500 yards but quite a challenge for a directionally challenged golfer.
On days that I didn’t have to work I would walk 2 miles to Springfield CC. A round of junior golf cost $1. I spent many a day playing there. As I often missed the fairway, I recall walking through the rough tuning my swing by hitting the flowers off of dandelion plants. No Augusta syndrome then, I once borrowed my father’s hickory putter, that he used until he died, and putted really well with it. Perhaps its 70 of loft was what was need on slow fuzzy greens.
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My memory isn't from playing golf, but from going out to the course with my father.
It would have been sometime in the late 1970s, I would have been 7 or 8, going on a course in northern cali that is NLE. I don't recall much except that its the only time my Dad ever took my brother and I out to the course. I recall he would hit the ball and it seemed a mile off, and we'd go try to go find it. The first time I "found it", I promptly picked it up followed by my father yelling and screaming at me for picking it up. I then recall my brother wandering off a few fairways over and my Dad getting hot under the collar for that as well.
I guess perhaps he was somewhat justified for never taking us out again, but then again, my Dad is such a hot head and not really suited for a game like golf I suppose... We played years later when he was in his 70s, but he could barely swing the club by then.
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My first rounds were in the early 1970's. I had a flashback a couple of years ago, when I played golf at The Sheep Ranch, and encountered some knotweed in the rough on one of the early holes. The courses of my youth were far weedier than most anything I've seen recently. Most everyone would see that as a good thing, but it had been maybe 25 years since I'd seen knotweed in play, and I realized I'd missed it :)
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I remember golf was for nerdy guys who couldn’t play real sports. My family were members of a golf club that had a lake for swimming/fishing as well as a spring-fed creek with rapids. “Shooting” (swimming) the rapids was forbidden which, of course, we did all the time. Even though we didn’t play golf, we spent as much of the summer as we could there. We even built a “fort” in densely overgrown area where we camped out, sometimes for days. When we got hungry, we’d head for the clubhouse and order a burger, always careful to avoid the grumpy old guys playing cards after golf. Golf wasn’t for kids. Golf and cards were for gambling, sometimes for high stakes. I knew a guy who played back then and was near a scatch HC. He couldn’t afford to lose. He kept $4,000 rolled up in a sock so his wife wouldn’t know the stakes he was playing for. About our only golf was trying to smash golf balls as far as we could with our Dad’s discarded clubs. I remember a MacGregor #2 wood as the one I could hit the farthest. What a wasted opportunity! Yet, there wasn’t much time for another sport after football, basketball, track, and baseball.
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My first rounds were in the early 1970's. I had a flashback a couple of years ago, when I played golf at The Sheep Ranch, and encountered some knotweed in the rough on one of the early holes. The courses of my youth were far weedier than most anything I've seen recently. Most everyone would see that as a good thing, but it had been maybe 25 years since I'd seen knotweed in play, and I realized I'd missed it :)
Tom,
I was very pleasantly surprised to see daisies growing (and flowering) on the tees and fairways at TOC during The Open this year. The message of sustainable and environmentally responsible course maintenance is really beginning to be implemented by many of the more forward thinking golf clubs here in GB&I. I am not always the R&A's biggest fan but in this regard I really do have to take my hat off to them.
Jon
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I recall buying some more expensive "Faultless" cut proof golf balls advertised by Lee Trevino, much better than the Po Do. I did manage to cut one once.
Jeff --
Buy a dozen now for only 79 bucks!
Www.ebay.com/itm/box-12-golf-balls-faultless-lee-Trevino-signature-1960s-/380102137015 (http://Www.ebay.com/itm/box-12-golf-balls-faultless-lee-Trevino-signature-1960s-/380102137015)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mE4AAOSwAL9Uk6S2/s-l300.jpg)
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Will never forget my father coming out of the temporary clubhouse at The Boulders (c. 1971, first nine Red Lawrence w/ 2nd by Arthur Jack Snyder) and exclaiming ... "All be damned...it's gone up to a dollar a hole!!!"
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Early 1960s playing a round at Glendoveer East and noticing a piece of wood nailed onto a fir tree. Some rounds later I figured out it was a rudimentary yardage marker (200), don't know if the course or a player added it.
First time I ever saw one other than plantings at 150.
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I first played when I was in fourth grade, and got my first set in fifth grade. Wilson, Billy Casper signature. Laminated woods. I still stick the old 4-wood in the bag on occasion.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/kgmaximus/IMG_1609.jpg)
And the bottom...
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/kgmaximus/IMG_1610.jpg)
They weren't great clubs, and I badly needed more than the group lesson or two I took. You can see, deeply etched into the bottom of the magical 4-wood, the remnant of my horrifically outside-in swing. Yes, to speak generously I hit a fade.
Since my grandparents lived in Upper Arlington, Ohio, it was all about Jack Nicklaus. He was the hero, the reason to play.
In terms of the golf courses I played, they were mainly Denver Municipals, and Indian Tree in Arvada. They used to mow Willis Case Golf Course all at fairway height, until they started putting on airs and having rough. I think they started putting more sand in the bunkers at right about the same time........
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Early 1960s playing a round at Glendoveer East and noticing a piece of wood nailed onto a fir tree. Some rounds later I figured out it was a rudimentary yardage marker (200), don't know if the course or a player added it.
Forest Hills, a Ross public in Augusta and home to one of Bobby Jones 5 wins in 1930, had white rings spray painted around the trunks of trees that were 100 (approximately) ;D yards out when I played there in the late 70's
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I remember sprinkler heads being marked in about 1981. Before that some courses had a 150 pole, plate or bushes. Some had nothing.
The actual distances were of some debate. We had a tree that was 143. Then someone paced it off and it was 139. Debate raged. Surveyers were brought out. Then some guy with a laser.
One thing I learned as a caddy for better players, never give a yardage ending with a 5 or 0. They think you did not pace it off.
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Started playing golf mid 1960s, largely with my father at Lilleshall Hall, a little, late 1930s, Colt course in the countryside in rural Shropshire. It was here that my father persuaded me that the golf course I was playing was more likely to be of interest than my golf over it. In 1967 I went up to Oxford and joined the University Golf Society, not that there was any chance of my playing at University level, but it gave playing rights over Southfield for £5 a year, quite a bargain. I also occasionally ventured as far as Huntercombe, Frilford Heath, Northamptonshire County and Tadmarton Heath, but to do that you had to know someone with a car.
Lilleshall was a very basic club and course, very wet in winter and a lot of balls were lost when they plugged on landing. With fairways hewn out of dense forest many errant balls were lost, but for a keen-eyed youngster an excursion into the trees usually turned up a few discoveries.
My father and his brothers played left-handed. They were not left-handed but had batted that way round as cricketers. There was little or no choice of golf clubs, Dunlop Bob Charles were the only ones available as a matched (sort of) set. I had a motley collection of random clubs most with brown-painted metal shafts. Many grips were leather - I still have a leather-gripped fairway wood. Balls were two-spots or, occasionally Dunlop 65s or Penfolds. These were 1.62".
Conditions on most golf courses were poor, especially in the winter. Many bunkers would have permanent pools in them, the sand was rarely raked and often it was compounded into a hard putty. Greens were probably only mown once a week (by hand). There was no watering of fairways, greens or tees. Tee pegs were rarely used - but you were lucky if you could find sand in the tins left on the tees. Usually an iron club was used to scuff up the grass sufficient to tee up the ball. Greens were generally much slower than today and surfaces uneven.
Occasionally we went to Northern Ireland where I played Royal County Down with a cousin. That was completely unlike anything I had experienced elsewhere - especially the need to chase approach shots through the bunkers to reach the greens. I rarely completed the round, having run out of balls! We played the 2nd course, too, from time to time. I had never encountered bunkers of such depth - or gorse of such ferocity!
At Lilleshall there were occasional marker posts on the edge of the fairway 200 yards out from the tee and in those days I could usually hit the ball past them with ease. In fact, because of the narrow fairways, I became adept at using a 3-iron for all full tee shots and I could comfortably reach those par 4s longer than 400 yards in two shots - certainly not so today! There were no par 5s at Lilleshall.
In 1966 the football World Cup was played in England and the England team trained at Lilleshall (the old Hall having been converted into a sports training facility). I can recall Hurst, Charlton and the rest of them training on a pitch just over the fence from the 9th fairway. Heady days!
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I started the game in the mid 70's as a 10 year old playing a little 9-holer, a place called McDonald in Evansville, IN. Most of the time I was with my older brother. We just played to have fun. I didn't play a competitive match for at least a few years. I had a season pass to play weekday golf at this course for I think maybe 50 bucks. My dad would drop my off at the course on the way to work and my mom would pick me up later in the day. I can remember some summer afternoons it being so hot only youngsters like myself would be out there playing.
Some pics of McDonald after I re-visited it this past summer after a 30 year absence (to find this Ed Ault course was a very good place to learn the game!):
http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/McDonald/
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It looked like this in 1974:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/571/23289284265_7aa39aabdf_m.jpg)
Men's championship won with Haig Ultra irons (aluminum shaft) Powerbilt Citation persimmon woods, Wilson R-90 sand wedge and Mickey Mouse mallet putter purchased at Walt Disney World.
Dad forked over $15/month for dues. Plenty of Stewart Sandwiches and Country Time Lemonade.
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A few brands of golf ball I played in the 70's:
Acushnet Club Special
McGregor Linkmaster
Podo (carried exclusively by Crain's Drugstore)
Faultless
Royal Plus 6
Maxfli (Red Dot)
Ram 3-D
Golden Ram (they made a 110 compression ball!)
Maxfli (Blue Max)
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Bogey - what, and nary a mention of those slacks?! That's a million dollar cut, and a colour that Jimmy Demaret would've loved! I am currently using the Haig Ultras myself, with the contoured soles -- the lofts are a club weak or so, but the balance and feel are wonderful!
Gents, I missed this for a few days; thanks for sharing those memories/experiences.
Peter
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Peter, I miss polyester. Trousers could have doubled as a table-cloth an Italian restaurant. I believe those are the maroon on maroon leather Footjoys. Loved the maroon on white and black on black better. I still can't believe a Dad who never made more than $35K a year would pop for $100 shoes.
Dang my bag was tight.
Won the men's championship at 16 in 1974. Played lights out in 1975 but lost by 4 shots to former Chicago Cubs All-Star Jim Hickman. Won in 1976 a week before college matriculation thanks a 4-iron from 190 yards to five feet on the second playoff hole. It's been steeply downhill ever since but the beer's always been cold.
Golf has been so good to me.
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Mike - it may have been "steeply downhill" ever since, but most who play golf can go "steadily uphill" for years and still never experience hitting a 4 iron 190 yards to 5 feet to win the club championship! Thanks for sharing. And a reminder that "looking good is half way to playing good!"
Peter
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So glad to hear some love for the Haig Ultras! I have a sent in the garage. Favorite irons I ever owned- notice I didn't say best (as in results). In my area the PoDo was sold at Walgreens. Firestone (yes the tire store) sold Jack Nicklaus branded balls. The best ball for us was the TopFlite as it went FOREVER and you couldn't cut it. (The early 70s version). I loved the Blue Max ball.
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What a wonderful thread! Thanks for such a splendid idea, Peter.
I'll try to weigh in with my own probably reiterative thoughts on my start in the game back in the 70s, but since I've been on a bit of a photo roll lately, perhaps posting one of me circa 1975 will tell you all you'd need to know. ;)
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My first two full sets of clubs, received from my parents at Christmas around 1972 and 1975, respectively if memory serves; the Jack Nicklaus Golden Bear and the Walter Hagen Ultradyne II. Man I could hit those things, also if memory serves. ;)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5727/23191219632_b31c926da3_b.jpg)
Some balls from that era;
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5701/23273508836_0279faa363_b.jpg)
Oh, and that's me circa 1975. Say no more.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/678/23216493441_c185d168f8_b.jpg)
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Mike,
so you missed the "PO-DO" Walgreens ball era by a few years? You just haven't lived, man! I have some pictures of a much skinnier self in similar plaid pants......they were the rage in the 1970's.
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Come on, that's not really YOU, Mike - that is clearly a young Johnny Miller!! Look at that: perfect forearm action through to the release, and the stylish reverse-C finish!
(Don't be offended, but from what I can tell you and Bogey have never dressed as well as you did in 1975!)
:)
PS - over the last couple of years, just from old second hand stores, I have put together two sets of clubs and bags -- one from "the 60s-70s" and "one from the 80s-early 90s". The persimmon and the Haigs and the Hogan blades and the simple leather-vinyl carry bags, they all look so lovely. But also: I didn't play golf in the 60s or 70s, and played only about 3 times throughout the 80s, and then found the game in the mid 90s, so for me it is the joy of the memories I WISH I had...
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Type something like 'persimmon golf clubs' into the Ebay search function and all sorts of rather nice wooden headed drivers and fairways woods from a prior period arise before your eyes. Inexpensive too. Plenty of irons etc from the same period around as well.
Atb
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Forgive my indulgence, but Michael H and Dan Kelly might salivate along with me at the sight of these epicurean delights which were a 1970s clubhouse staple and nostalgic icon! :)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/740/23276069146_cb03dd3a8e_b.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5646/22675045603_a9584be76b.jpg)(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5776/22673832824_993563aed6_z.jpg)
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Born in 1957, I fell in love with the game in the early 70s. Worked at Carl's Golfland for 8 years back then. While we waited for the driving range to close at 11 pm on summer nights, we'd take a phone book out into the parking lot, set a ball on the cover of the book, and hit wedges to the 1st green of the little par 3 that used to be there. (I used to be a good wedge player.)
Grew up playing at Forest Lake CC (private) and Pontiac Municipal (very public). FLCC had some of the most difficult greens I'd ever putted and there was OB on almost every hole. (I used to putt well and hit the ball straight.) Pontiac Municipal (aka "The City Course") was 5,689 yards from the tips, with fairways that were always brown and hard as a parking lot. The greens were just as hard, but they were green. My high school golf team never lost a home match, as our unknowing opponents would fly wedges into the first green and watch helplessly as their balls would bounce 10 feet in the air on their way into the woods behind and below the green. After that, they need had a chance. (I used to be able to hit tasty, low pitches into hard greens.)
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Is the stylish lady noshing on a Chuckwagon?
Peter, you would have loved my standard frat party pants - while polyester with par, birdie and bogey written all over them in different primary colors.
Surprised nobody has mentioned the billboard style Amana baseball cap. Dad bought me one from Mason Rudolf's brother.
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My first bona fide golf trip was to play the Olympic Club, Spyglass Hill, and Pebble Beach in August 1976. To play the first, we had our friend pretend he was my club's head pro (the former immortal Bob Gajda, who led the 1963 US Open after a first round 68 and then shot three rounds in the 80s) and call the club. We were welcomed with open arms, though we had to take a trolley car to the entrance and walk a mile (or so it seemed) to the clubhouse. Paid $15. We walked Spyglass ($15), but had to take carts at Pebble ($25 and in terrible shape).
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Mike,
In 1976 I wore Sansabelt red, white, and blue patterned polyester slacks. I couldn't fit into them now, but I so wish I still had them. I wore pastel green pants at Pebble Beach. i didn't stand out.
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Peter, I miss polyester.
Unless you're a Dupont chemist,that's not a sentence you want to say out loud.
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;D
Good one.
But of course, you're showing your age as well - are there even any "Dupont chemists" left? I'm guessing that type of person goes into IT infrastructure instead
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;D
Good one.
But of course, you're showing your age as well - are there even any "Dupont chemists" left? I'm guessing that type of person goes into IT infrastructure instead
Or crystal meth production.
We should probably tread lightly--Joe Bausch is a chemistry professor.
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Mike Cirba
I had nearly forgotten about Golden Ram golf balls. Nearly!
James B
ps I remember that if disease affected the greens, it was not uncommon for the greens to be poor for the whole season. Today, when disease affects greens, somehow the staff find a way (and the money) to restore the playing surface quite quickly. We used to complain of sorts, but golf went on, happily, despite the appalling surfaces.
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Got a half set of Dunlop Junior Blueflash. 2 & 4 wood, 5,7,9,SW, Wilson 8802 putter. Double Dot reject, recovered Spitfires, Princes and of course the trusty Commando.
I remember getting given a Ram Tour Bag which was real leather when I was 8 which I insisted on using for a month. Thing weighed a ton and my clubs disappeared down inside it. Got too hot to lug it about in the summer though.
Happy days :)
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As a kid I played mostly on military courses. Conditions were very fast and firm. In fact, fairways were pretty thin and tight lies was the norm. Greens were relatively slow and the rough was patchy. Clubs were tiny, but a hit the center of the club more then than I do now with with bigger faces. I had "half woods." I had a 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 woods. I played with balls that had little "smiles" in them. I never knew how many clubs I carried. I just played with what I had. At Fort Meade in MD it cost $60 a year for family membership on their two courses. I would play with my Dad after work until it got dark and we had to hit 7 irons so we could here the ball land.
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James,
Golden Ram balls were my favorite for the simple reason that I really, really loved the cool Ram Horns logo.
All,
Certainly, equipment has changed from my 1975 Haig Ultradyne II Driver to my 2014 TaylorMade. I'm not sure how we played pretty well with those little clubheads compared to the "Ham on a Stick" clubheads we have today.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/737/22721107443_16631d3b48_b.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5787/22980415869_7a541ab600_b.jpg)
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Is the stylish lady noshing on a Chuckwagon?
Peter, you would have loved my standard frat party pants - while polyester with par, birdie and bogey written all over them in different primary colors.
Surprised nobody has mentioned the billboard style Amana baseball cap. Dad bought me one from Mason Rudolf's brother.
Was the Amana hat the first advertising on golf clothing? The guys today make me feel slightly bilious in their getup. Lee Westwood must wear six logos, with the big UPS the most egregious. Saw some photos of Hogan recently. White shirt and cap, cardigan, gray slacks, wow.
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Mike - I'm an average golfer at best, and I probably know only a tenth of what I think I know about the golf swing. But this I know: that when I hit the ball on the centre of the club face (on my persimmon woods or Haig musclebacks) I get all the distance I need, no matter what tee I'm playing from. Did I get more distance with the titanium monstrosities and frying panned game improvement irons? Yes, sometimes; and certainly on mishits I did. But I figure that if I don't hit the centre of the club face I deserve whatever results I get.
Bill - re Mr Hogan's attire: perhaps this makes me old fashioned and old before my time, but I honestly believe that popular culture started going downhiil at precisely the time when the clarinet disappeared from jazz, men stopped wearing fedoras, they found out the smoking was bad for you, mixed-drinks became popular, and grey cotton/linen/wool stopped being the dominant colour in golf attire!
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Bill - re Mr Hogan's attire: perhaps this makes me old fashioned and old before my time, but I honestly believe that popular culture started going downhiil at precisely the time when the clarinet disappeared from jazz, men stopped wearing fedoras, they found out the smoking was bad for you, mixed-drinks became popular, and grey cotton/linen/wool stopped being the dominant colour in golf attire!
My favorite clothing outfit I ever wore was in 1959-60 when I was attending classes at the City College of San Francisco. Grey slacks, white button down collar shirt, black cardigan, black penny loafers. Then I transferred to UC Santa Barbara and wore nothing but tee shirts and chinos or shorts, with the occasional Madras plaid shirt thrown in. My sartorial index was in the tank.
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Got a half set of Dunlop Junior Blueflash. 2 & 4 wood, 5,7,9,SW
Me too! :) And later a pair of metal spiked rubber golf shoes with flaps over the laces and later still some thin plastic waterproofs that weren't really waterproof at all and at some stage headcovers knitted by my Grandmother. Happy days indeed.
Atb
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See, when you describe that first outfit, I would have no idea (if I didn't know you) whether you were hip or square -- those clothes would've worked equally well on a young straight-laced accountant as on a west-coast jazz man just getting off heroin; on either John Kenneth Galbraith or Art Pepper (or Ben Hogan, or Bill McBirde!).
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Was the Amana hat the first advertising on golf clothing?
I think so.I remember reading somewhere they paid $50/week and Lou Graham was an early wearer,if not the first.
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Forgive my indulgence, but Michael H and Dan Kelly might salivate along with me at the sight of these epicurean delights which were a 1970s clubhouse staple and nostalgic icon! :)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5776/22673832824_993563aed6_z.jpg)
Mike --
You made me so hungry, I went out to Caribou Coffee for lunch and got a sausage/egg biscuit -- heated in an oven quite reminiscent of Stewart's In-Fra-Red contraption. (They don't have a Chuckwagon, or I'd have ordered one.)
BTW: What's he lookin' at?
Also BTW: Do you think they were called "Stewart" because Stewart, a Scottish name, connoted ... so inexpensive that even a Scot would order one?
[size=78%]Happy Thanksgiving.[/size]
Dan
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I have read Amana used to take the player on as an employee, at minimal to no salary. However the player got benefit from the employee health insurance.
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I think he's eyeing her Chuckwagon Dan.
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Mike Cirba
those clubs would be mid 70's - i recognise the Wilson anti-torque steel shaft, with the twist near the hosel. That idea didn't last.
I remember the 1200 irons that had those shafts, parallel tip to allow the spiggot hosel iron to attach (the iron went inside the shaft, not over the shaft). Some years later, Iron heads were snapping off at the stress point and flying down the fairway as far as the ball!
Re advertising - George Archer was the first I remember with the big 'Amana' on his cap. They made fridges didn't they?
I remember the Watson wedge set (by RAM) - that was expensive. Who would pay for three wedges? Scoring system indeed. Hmmmph, what did I know.
James B
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Is the stylish lady noshing on a Chuckwagon?
Peter, you would have loved my standard frat party pants - while polyester with par, birdie and bogey written all over them in different primary colors.
I'll bet those pants looked good under a toga!
TOGA, TOGA, TOGA!
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Didn't read the thread to here to see if others recalled it, but the thing I remember most was the slow greens, and the necessary wristy putting stroke. It seems today's wristless putting strokes would get the ball to the hole from 20 feet on those greens.
Then of course there were all those small town cow pastures with sand greens where the local rule was improve all lies in the fairway.
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Didn't read the thread to here to see if others recalled it, but the thing I remember most was the slow greens, and the necessary wristy putting stroke. It seems today's wristless putting strokes would get the ball to the hole from 20 feet on those greens.
Then of course there were all those small town cow pastures with sand greens where the local rule was improve all lies in the fairway.
Garland,
We just didn't know they were slow!!
Interestingly I played yesterday on greens that hadn't been cut in a month-maybe 5 on the stimp.
I saw more lipouts in 13 holes with 2 players than I would usually see in 5-6 rounds.
Because the ball was travelling MUCH faster when it got to the hole (That's right Pat-faster) the ball had to be dead center exactly to go in.
Why is the ball going faster? Because with the assumed safety zone of say a 2 foot circle creating at least a 2 putt, coupled with the desire to not leave it short knowing it wouldn't roll far by, demands balls be moving at a faster pace on average when/if they reach the hole.
On fast greens it is much easier to trickle a putt in, and the ball isn't going fast at all to stay within the 2 foot circle.
As i have always said, slow greens are much more difficult as they allow/demand more slope, more solid contact, and better judgement to get the speed right, and as mentioned above, are MORE likely to lip out.
But we keep building superfast, flat (though tiered) greens and hundreds of generic bunkers,
because vapid, fair demanding better players condone and demand such for acceptance of the course.
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Jeff - re: "...better players condone and demand such..."
My guess is that of that group only 1 out of 10, maybe even only 1 out of 100, call for faster greens because they honestly believe such greens are more challenging/pure; the other 9 (or 99) call for them because in their heart of hearts they know to be true exactly what you just described: i.e. that is it harder to make putts on slower greens. The so-called "better player": concerned above all else that their 78s be 75s instead... :)
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Jeff - re: "...better players condone and demand such..."
My guess is that of that group only 1 out of 10, maybe even only 1 out of 100, call for faster greens because they honestly believe such greens are more challenging/pure; the other 9 (or 99) call for them because in their heart of hearts they know to be true exactly what you just described: i.e. that is it harder to make putts on slower greens. The so-called "better player": concerned above all else that their 78s be 75s instead... :)
Peter,
You nailed it.
And fast greens have the added benefit for them of torturing lesser players.
I was watching a Tour event the other day and the commentators were talking (positively) about how despite the tiering of the greens, if you hit it on the right shelf, you nearly always got a straight putt ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Peter,
In the 60's you had to have a much better touch in bunkers and around the greens.
Ergo, you had to put a premium on avoiding bunkers.
The L-Wedge changed all of that
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Jeff Warne
what was the pace of play like with those slower greens?
I suspect it was a lot quicker than when the greens are fast.
James B
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Agree with you Pat about the effects of the introduction of the L-wedge.
I recall using the back of a club in an attempt to leave a bunker in decent (or probably more accurately semi-decent) shape for the next player.
Can't really recall though when it become the norm to have a rake in every bunker, both fairway and greenside. Maybe it just kind of slowly evolved?
Atb
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Pat - I'm just an average golfer, but I like the looks and sense of history and challenge/fun of playing with older equipment, i.e. persimmon and blades. Partly because of this, and partly because I carry a two iron along with the 1-3-4 woods, I don't carry and there is no room in my bag for a L-wedge. Folks here like to talk about manufacturing shots and using their imaginations etc -- I'm not really a good enough golfer to do either of those very often; but in my experience, the single best way to ensure that you have to manufacture shots (and a lot of them) is to take the L-wedge out of the bag. That causes me more challenge/fun by far than the distance I sometimes lose using persimmon woods off the tee.
Peter
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I only caught the tail end of the 70s...first set was a half set...something very cheap from Kmart or some such place. My first full set was Jack Nicklaus Golden Bears. I used those through high school. Didn't buy my Tommy Armour 845s until maybe 1992ish.
I don't have any real memories of courses being any different than today. I am sure the greens were slower, but it obviously didn't matter because there were courses which had fast greens and those with slower greens...just like today. I think fast greens were about 9ish for the time, probably a bit faster here and there. On interesting greens it was plenty fast enough. And interesting enough, I don't play many times in a year on greens which are much quicker than 9ish. I hear bout the fast greens in thes US, but I don't encounter them very often....Old Town was the last time I thought greens were a tad too fast for the design.
A big memory was the old putters...there weren't that many different basic styles. Loads of people were still using the putt putt style putters...basically a lump of metal on a stick. I recall not doing much about this until I bought a blade putter in a barrel (jeez...the barrel is probably the thing I miss most about that time :D ) for $5 around 1992ish (must of decided on a complete obverhaul of my spanners 8) )...still using the damn thing and many woud say its just a lump of metal on a stick :).
Ciao
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Peter,
I think the neat thing about the 60's was the ability to really work the ball.
Today, you have to make an exaggerated effort to get the same movement that was easy to produce in the 60's.
I think that enhanced the element of fun
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Peter,
I think the neat thing about the 60's was the ability to really work the ball.
Today, you have to make an exaggerated effort to get the same movement that was easy to produce in the 60's.
I think that enhanced the element of fun
I can't comment on the 60's as such but for decades thereafter, until really the demise of balata balls, I'd go along with this.
Atb
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Jeff Warne
what was the pace of play like with those slower greens?
I suspect it was a lot quicker than when the greens are fast.
James B
James,
Pace of play was quicker because
1.Courses were shorter-6800 yards was considered long back tees and few played the back tees, and you generally had to walk back to those tees-Now you have to walk further back on those same courses-and more play them
2.There were less real estate courses and cart ball courses so real estate used was less
In both of the above cases you still have to walk the larger acreage regardless of tees chosen
3. Stupid Preshot routines weren't in vogue, and pros NEVER took practice swings
4. Courses weren't as hard to find balls due to maturity of courses, better golf land used, and minimal wetland restrictions on older courses-as well as the ball not going so far
4. you were scared shitless of old men yelling at you if you dawdled
5. Golf wasn't cool and less douchebags played
6. Greens were slower so probably less comebackers on severe greens-but maybe not as more severe pins could be used
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I remember carrying a lot of big Burton bags(points for alliteration) in the early 70's for $6 a pop and that's if you were a designated "A" caddy while the "B" caddies got $5. When you got the bump up to "A" status it was a big sigh of relief because that asension also was required to carry doubles. I had regular bags depending on the day of the week and it occurred to me that Dentists and Insurance guys had an awful lot of free time to play. ;D We got to play on Mondays and there was a Damon Runyon type lineup of characters that made up the crew. I remember playing in the caddie tournament in 1973 which was prior to the annual caddie banquet held every Summer just before Labor Day. We were allowed in the pool and there wasn't a member within a hundred miles of the club. After the pool we headed inside for the banquet and I won a Poloroid camera in the raffle where the picture printed right on the spot(don't remember the model). Good times. :)
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I sure enjoyed these last few posts.
I'm a newbie, starting slowly around 1980, and not getting deeply into golf until I couldn't run around (play basketball) anymore. However, by the early seventies I was looking at golf picture books and playing dice-based golf games like Thinking Man's Golf and Sports Illustrated Golf, where hole diagrams were used for playing golf. That's where my interest in this stuff started.
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Jeff,
That's a pretty good list.
I think that accentuated ball flight had its pros and cons.
I liked it because it allowed you to recover from places that would be very difficult to recover from today, although, there are those that would refer to Bubba's recovery on # 10 at ANGC.
As miraculous as that seems, it was fairly commonplace amongst good golfers in the 60's.
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I think #4 and #5 probably had the most to do with it.
Look at old footage of the pros playing, there was none of this pre-shot routine nonsense going on for 30 seconds. Do your thinking as you walk up to the ball, get over the ball, and hit it. If todays current weekend warriors did all that standing around and chit chatting and calculating to the yard of their shot back then, they'd have a chili pepper right up there backsides from the old coots within a couple of holes.
Could you imagine some of the slow players today being on tour back then? They'd get an ear chewing from the vets, I don't doubt it for a second
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I think #4 and #5 probably had the most to do with it.
Look at old footage of the pros playing, there was none of this pre-shot routine nonsense going on for 30 seconds. Do your thinking as you walk up to the ball, get over the ball, and hit it. If todays current weekend warriors did all that standing around and chit chatting and calculating to the yard of their shot back then, they'd have a chili pepper right up there backsides from the old coots within a couple of holes.
Could you imagine some of the slow players today being on tour back then? They'd get an ear chewing from the vets, I don't doubt it for a second
Wasn't there some big bloke originally from Columbus Ohio who came out on tour in the early '60s who was known for being less than swift when he played. Maybe he speeded up, maybe others just speeded down.
Did Rory Sabatini's walk-on when playing with Ben Crane do any good in the long term?
Atb
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I think #4 and #5 probably had the most to do with it.
Look at old footage of the pros playing, there was none of this pre-shot routine nonsense going on for 30 seconds. Do your thinking as you walk up to the ball, get over the ball, and hit it. If todays current weekend warriors did all that standing around and chit chatting and calculating to the yard of their shot back then, they'd have a chili pepper right up there backsides from the old coots within a couple of holes.
Could you imagine some of the slow players today being on tour back then? They'd get an ear chewing from the vets, I don't doubt it for a second
Wasn't there some big bloke originally from Columbus Ohio who came out on tour in the early '60s who was known for being less than swift when he played. Maybe he speeded up, maybe others just speeded down.
Did Rory Sabatini's walk-on when playing with Ben Crane do any good in the long term?
Atb
If memory serves me right, Jack had a lot of frenemies back in the day. Nice to his face cause he was so damn good, but hated the son-of-a-you_know_what behind his back.
If I was a betting man, Jack probably still played much faster back then than 95% of the players do today....
P.S. As for Rory, You could make an argument it did. At least now groups and players can be put on the clock during tourneys...that's a relatively new rule on the tour. Hasn't gone nearly far enough, but it was a good start.
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Kalen, et. al.,
I think money and the desire to know the exact yardage, rather than eyeball it, caused play on the Tour to slow down.
If I'm not mistaken, Jack adopted Gene Andrews system after playing with him at Pebble Beach.
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Patrick - you are probably right, but yet I dare say that the Sneads and Nelsons and Mangrums and Hogans and before them the Hagens and Sarazens, all of whom played through or were born during the Depression and who had hard-scrabbled upbringings were concerned about/needed to make money as much as and even more so than the JN's of the later generations. And yet to a man, watching the old footage, you saw them step up to the tee box, put the ball down, step up, take a look, and swing -- all in about 20 seconds, shot after shot, round after round, and eyeballing just about every shot, distance-wise. And it strikes me that it's not a coincidence that all their swings were unique -- each of them found their swings, and trusted them precisely because they'd found them (and not had them drilled into them by instructors), and they made those old persimmons and blades work for them, not the other way around -- including when it came to distance control through feel. It was when teaching and technology took over that the game slowed down -- and not surprisingly: if your confidence and your game is dependent on that technology (to bomb the ball 310 yards down the fairway, any fairway) and the training (to get into very narrowly prescribed "positions"), your mind and spirit are not where they should; you are thinking about golf rather than playing it.
At least that's the way it seem to me, in my (necessarily) humble opinion.
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Peter,
When you walked up to your ball and eyeballed the distance it took a lot less time than looking for identifying features. I.e. A tree, rock, bunker, then pacing off the distance to your ball.
No one got rich playing golf in the 40's, 50,s and 60's if they didn't win a tournament, or not
Today you can finish 25th every week and be rich in a short time.
What would Byron Nelson have won today, in cash, bonuses and endorsements, for winning 11 in a row ?
And 18 in one year ?
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Somebody posted old footage of tournaments....and Jack was incredibly slow. I didn't remember it that way, but the footage didn't lie. I fouund myself fast forwarding it was that bad. On the plus side, the commenators did comment on the slow play in typical British around the track style :D . One may have been Longhurst.
Ciao
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Sean,
I always liked the rather droll pronouncements by Henry Longhurst.
Apropos of your thoughts in reply #98 I thought, until today, that it was Longhurst who said " By the time you get to your ball, if you don't know what to do with it, try another sport." But in fact it was Julius Boros.
So true, so true!
Cheers Colin
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We were talking about bunkers on the radio today, I brought up the old Sandy Andy..
The phones lit up ;D ;D
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Ahhh--Those were the days. I played most of the muni courses in the Rochester area, but my favorite was the Durand-Eastman Park course, which I later learned was attributed, in part, to a famous designer. i never gave any thought to the design of a golf course in the '60s or early '70s. Nor did I give any thought to, or heard any comment about, the condition of the course, speed of the greens, or similar factors. My mindset, and that of my buddies, was to play the course as it was. We just concentrated on our games. I remember that is you weren't at the first tee before 6:30 am, especially on weekends, you were relegated to a place in a long line of golfers waiting to start their round. That wasn't the worst thing in the world, given the friendly banter that often took place. i don't recall any grumpy old men, but I recall some crusty old men who shared many tidbits of wisdom about the course, and the game, if you were lucky enough to be paired with them. I do recall that if you were late in getting out on the course, you were likely to have a slow day. A 6 hour round at Durand, during the 1974 season, caused me to tell my wife, "Next year, we're joining a private club.": In fact, we did. That's when I discovered that having grass on the tees was possible, and expected. That's also when I discovered that the designer of the course was significant (in my case, it was Walter Travis).
Sometime in the late '60s, I bought a set of PowerBilts (no, not with persimmon heads). It was about that time that I first broke 90. I didn't pay much attention to the type of ball. I could hit the ball pretty far--compared to my playing partners--but, I never knew whether I was going to be deep in the woods on the right, or on the left. There was a 190 yard par 3 at Durand that I could reach with my 3-wood.
I ddidn't take lessons till I was in my 60s, though I maintained an 11-12 handicap for most of my golfing life. Those lessons in the '90s helped me get down into the single digits. I learned much more about the game, it's history, and it's pioneers, but I'm not sure I enjoyed the game any more than those days when the only thing that mattered was the shot in front of me.
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Thanks much, Ed - that was a terrific post.
Peter
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Ed,
Good post! I lived and worked in Rochester for a year, 1975. Durand Eastman was my main course, along with occasional trips to a course in Churchville. There were some great money games at Durand. I remember a time or two when I was playing for more money than I had in my pocket. That helped me learn to focus :)
Interestingly, I started golf and played my early golf, 1958-1974, almost entirely on two courses that were designed by Devereux Emmet (Mechanicville NY and Rye NY) and never knew that he designed them or who he was until years later. My high school golf team suburban NYC in the late 60's got me on a few great courses (including Westchester CC and Winged Foot) that have since been not accessible to me. Back then, I viewed them as just among the places where we played matches.
Clubs in my basement:
Irons:
Hickory “MidIron”
Kroyden set
Golfcraft Fiberglass set
Spalding Executive
Lynx set
Ping Eye2, Eye3 sets
Woods (pre metal era):
Wilson Stratabloc set
Unbranded “Spoon Reg No 108”
Spalding Top Flight Power Weighted Tournament Model
Palmer Fiberglass Shaft driver
Tony Penna set
Lynx set
30+ assorted putters (none of which work...), including a very early (1950's) bullseye and a Spalding TPC that I bought out of a barrel in the 70's for $8.
Set of beryllium copper woods (Golfcraft?)
Dozens of assorted metal-woods & newer irons
My golf buddies & I are talking about playing a round with persimmon, old blades, and balata balls. I'm not sure that I'm ready for a hickory round, or that the couple of old hickory clubs that I have are up to the task.
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Kroydon! I have never heard of anyone else having those.
If I remember correctly, my folks got them from Monkey Wards.
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Kroydon made clubs starting just after WW I (1919-1950s). Hickory, and later, steel shafts. The set that I have belonged to my father, who won it in a tournament in the 50's and passed them down to me.
[/size]If you do a Goggle search, it will yield in articles on the company, and some interesting old ads in magazines for Kroydon clubs. An ad in Life magazine in May 19451 called Kroydon “Americas Number 1 golf club”.
[/size]The set that I have originally had leather wrap grips, with a flat spot at the top of the grip. Sort of a “reminder” grip. In a stupid move, back in the 70's, I sent them to be re-gripped by a golf store, hoping to try playing them again. They removed the 2 inch wooden plug at the top of the grip that formed the flat spot under the wrap. What I got back was a set that was 2 inches shorter, plus one club that they had managed to snap the shaft (which was not replaceable, due to special Kroydon shaft design). Since then, they have been shelfware. One of these days I'll put shaft extenders in and see what they feel like.
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We were talking about bunkers on the radio today, I brought up the old Sandy Andy..
The phones lit up ;D ;D
What a club.
Lots of my friends used the Hogan Sure Out. I was a R90 man when it came out in the early 70s. Shaft was as stiff as a board! I think I still have my original r90 but it has a replacement shaft. Clubs seemed to,break a lot when I was a teen!