Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Robin_Hiseman on June 19, 2015, 07:52:48 AM
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Can anyone help me by providing examples where a golf clubhouse and a hotel have been incorporated into the same building to excellent effect. I'm struggling to think of examples that work well.
Is it the case that they work better when the clubhouse is split off into a separate 'Dormy House' arrangement such as found at Gleneagles and Turnberry?
All responses appreciated.
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Robin
Don't know how well it works, but is Celtic Manor not an example of hotel/clubhouse ? Also Westerwood in Cumbernauld.
Niall
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Riviera has a pretty nice setup, though not technically a hotel.
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Robin
Don't know how well it works, but is Celtic Manor not an example of hotel/clubhouse ? Also Westerwood in Cumbernauld.
Niall
At CM the hotel and the clubhouse are separate. And the hotel has been described to me as 'the Welsh Lubyanka'....
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Robin
As an architect there is very few clubhouse hotel combos that is worth looking at because lots of them are add ons which I can provide a number like the Belfry etc ......
If you need any sketch ideas let me know.
It is important to have a forward thinking scheme that incorporates future phases so that the building fits together as a whole but will look huge and not really pleasing to the eye
I think it's best to separate the two so both has its identity like Royal Lytham and Royal Porthcawl with its clubhouse and Dormy House side by side. You could have something similar maybe linked with a canopy structure
Niall - Celtic Manor has 2 clubhouses and a gargantuan hotel complex which now will be much further expanded with the new Wales International Convention Centre which will make the complex look like a beast!
http://www.celtic-manor.com/wales-international-convention-centre
The one that comes out of my head is Stoke Park which I think has rooms in the mansion house style clubhouse
Others in U.S. With large clubhouses like Oakmont can be replicated with hotel rooms for instance
Cheers Ben
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Dalhousie Golf Club, the oldest club in Carnoustie, and one of the founders of the (British) Amateur Championship is now located in a broom closet of the Hotel standing behind the 18th green of the championship course.
BTW, the Amateur Championship is currently underway at Carnoustie, with 3 Scots, 4 Frogs and 1 Inglander in the 1/4 finals.
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Robin,
I can't think of any great examples?
Having been a member at a course where the clubhouse expanded to become a hotel as well, my experience is that they are better separated. If the hotel was exclusively for golfers then it might work, but there are potentially too many none golfers going to choose to stay in a hotel within the grounds of a golf course and there will be a need to expand the offer to weddings etc, all of which is best kept separate. I'm sure I've told you of several medal rounds being interrupted by the bride on her special day thinking she rules the place ::)
There is another facility nearby, not great architecturally, but they have kept the clubhouse and hotel separate and its works very well from that point of view.
If however it was a smaller scale hotel / larger scale dormey house it might work, but the problem of the behemoth of a clubhouse starts to be an issue if you arent careful...
Cheers,
James
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The Lodge at Bay Hill comes to mind.
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Robin
Don't know how well it works, but is Celtic Manor not an example of hotel/clubhouse ? Also Westerwood in Cumbernauld.
Niall
Westerwood is a good example of how it can be disastrous! No sense of entrance to the golf facility and it feels like a bit of an after thought.
Niall
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Robin
Princes has nice lodges i think it's 40 rooms on the site of the old clubhouse
Muirfield with Greywalls Hotel in background is another thought
Cheers
Ben
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Hi Robin,
Even though I believe mention of the place is outlawed on GCA, I would tentatively suggest The Oxfordshire (you didn't mention the course after all). The caveat would be that I've not stayed at the hotel. However, it is quite clearly a golf facility, with a large changing room, pro shop, and "golf" bar with pictures from the tournaments that were held there. 50 rooms plus a spa all in the same building as the golf stuff.
Ed
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Good call Ed!
I drive past there quite often so I shall take a look.
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....and if you are ever driving by the Machrie, just a thought ;D
Niall
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I think a good example where hotel rooms are combined with the clubhouse would be The Glen Club in Glenview, IL oustide of Chicago. It's a Fazio course and public facility that has roughly 25 hotel rooms connected to the clubhouse.
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The Lodge at Sea Island. Stunning.
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The Washington Duke Inn houses the pro shop and presides over the course nicely at Duke University's golf course. Well, "nicely" by Duke standards... ;D ;D
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Mid Pines is by far the best I have seen.
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Arcadia Bluffs
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I like the set up at The Prairie Club. For over the top fancy you have Miramont. I also like the way the clubhouse/hotel is set up at Kiva Dunes.
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How about Seaview outside of Atlantic City ?
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Hi Robin,
Even though I believe mention of the place is outlawed on GCA, I would tentatively suggest The Oxfordshire (you didn't mention the course after all). The caveat would be that I've not stayed at the hotel. However, it is quite clearly a golf facility, with a large changing room, pro shop, and "golf" bar with pictures from the tournaments that were held there. 50 rooms plus a spa all in the same building as the golf stuff.
Ed
Ed/Robin
The Oxfordshire recently had 40 bedroom extension to the rear of the clubhouse - to me it looks like 2 buildings clashing with each other.
http://www.ukgolfguide.com/the-oxfordshire-golf-club - see the construction image looks like the rooms do not face the golf course
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Can anyone help me by providing examples where a golf clubhouse and a hotel have been incorporated into the same building to excellent effect. I'm struggling to think of examples that work well.
Is it the case that they work better when the clubhouse is split off into a separate 'Dormy House' arrangement such as found at Gleneagles and Turnberry?
All responses appreciated.
Don't think it is possible to have one that works well. The best examples of courses with hotels usually involve a dedicated building. Tewkesbury Park is one of the few singular buildings I can think of, but the owner contacted us recently, he was not happy how the two worked together and his golf was interfering with his weddings and vice versa.
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The Grove is fairly well intergrated as a golf club hotel concept
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Not sure I'd classify it as great but Woodbury Park in Devon is a combo.
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Plenty of good food for thought here and I'm checking out all the leads. Thank you all.
I have found the integration to diminish both functions in my experience. I was at the Portmarnock Links a few weeks ago and could literally not find the golf clubhouse, until I just happened across it whilst exploring inside. The building offers no bespoke facade to the golf course, as the primary frontage, such as it is, is reserved for the hotel. The golf course seems to be very much 'back of house'. Compare that to the usual golf clubhouse which makes a virtue of the vista towards the golf.
A large part of the problem as I see it is how do you avoid the golfers experiencing the 'downstairs' functions of the hotel. The meat lorry and the bin wagons still have to service the building and if the golf section is kept away from the hotel it becomes really hard to avoid. At Old Thorns, you have to walk past the bin store to get from the pro shop to the 1st tee. I tried going the other way as I couldn't believe that was the primary route. I ended up in a corridor behind sports bar far away from where I intended, before finding a sliding door out through a function room. Not the designed path I am sure.
I'm glad to see there are some decent ones stateside, though they do tend to do these things better over there. I thought the main lodge at Bandon was pretty good, though that resort, more than any other, makes a virtue out of providing satellite clubhouses, each with a distinct character.
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Robin
Take a look at Sueno in Turkey. It's got the wow factors of four greens from its two courses all finishing in front of the hotel/clubhouse plus the obligatory lake and fountains.
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Robin,
Your point about the clubhouse getting lost with the hotel "back of house" function sounds familiar.
I was at a meeting recently discussing "good design". Most people, some architects included, seemed to believe that good design costs money. However this fails to realise that a lot of issues regarding good design, such as orientation, position of key functions etc if done correctly from the outset can lead to good design even if there isn't the money in the budget for fancy cladding etc!
My suspicion (from an architects point of view) is that the layout of these facilities is either driven by the hotel operator, or a specific desire of the client, the golf course architect, or are an after thought. If everybody's needs and aspirations are pulled together into one coherent brief, it shouldn't be too difficult for an architect to get something that functions better than most of the bad examples being discussed here.
Having said that I still feel that hotel and clubhouse are best as 2 distinct functions rather than combined.
Cheers,
James
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Sueno Golf Hotel(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o256/benjaminlovett/d8b19b99479bc96a5df0b168f025b4b8_zpsztjtazop.jpg)
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Front of Hotel
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o256/benjaminlovett/591f35a79a5d17c41c6a99cf580c9037_zpsmqfsyo2n.jpg)
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How about the Lodge at Pebble Beach that incorporates shops and restaurants also?
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Although these may be technically separate I believe they would count:Carnoustie and Broadmoor.
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Robin, we stayed in Wentworth last year. Though I wouldn't go back so fast it was pretty nice in terms of clubhouse and accommodation in one building. A bit on the luxurious side of things however.
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Westchester CC has a fantastic clubhouse/hotel.
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The Grove is fairly well intergrated as a golf club hotel concept
But the clubhouse is in a separate building that, I believe, was originally the Stables of the estate.
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The two that come to mind have already been mentioned here: Sea Island and Pebble.
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I think the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs is pretty good. Beautiful hotel which is a backdrop to the course, particularly the 18th hole. The pro shop is near the course and not awkward as some are within hotels.
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The Wynn has a fairly understated hotel/clubhouse combo:
(http://s12.postimg.org/cldjlvee5/Wynn_Practice_Green.jpg)
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Finca Cortesin does it nicely, lovely terrace with tapas. Arabella in South Africa to a lesser extent and the National in Paris is an example how now to do it!
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The Wynn has a fairly understated hotel/clubhouse combo:
Gotta love the secret door opening to the locker room as soon as you fork over $500 :)
(http://s12.postimg.org/cldjlvee5/Wynn_Practice_Green.jpg)
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Robin,
How many bedrooms are envisaged and is it to be a golf club with accommodation or accommodation with golf course tagged on?
Atb
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Westchester CC has a fantastic clubhouse/hotel.
I agree - Westchester has a substantial hotel with unusual architecture. It is facility like the great eating clubs of New York City and Philadelphia such as the Union Leagues, the Racquet Clubs, University Club, the Ivy League clubs ( Princeton, Harvard, Yale), Metropolitan and so forth.
Strong golden age courses at WCC as well, and the second course - the South Course may be the most under - rated course in Westchester County / NYC area.
Two Walter Travis designed courses built by Twomey and Flynn !
Some nice TV shots of the West course during the recent Women's PGA championship. The nines are reversed for major tournament play.
Wm Flynnfan
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Mid pines is the best example of a hotel incorporating a clubhouse.
Olympia Fields is the best example of a clubhouse incorporating a hotel.
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Seaview was mentioned , very nice old building .
Lest we forget the clubhouse at Pine Valley has sleeping rooms , now it just has more cabins .
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Does the set up at Victoria Golf Club count as a "hotel' If so it has to be up there with the best, views overlooking the putting green, straight downstairs for dinner and breakfast, great people there to look after you....top notch.
Barnbougle is perfect as well, unless resorts are not counting?
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None of the following is a "hotel" per se, but each of these clubs has bedrooms in their main clubhouse:
NGLA
TCC
Old Memoial
Yeamans Hall
Pine Valley
-Stephen
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Thank you all for the continuing responses.
I think there is an essential difference between a golf and commercial hotel combo to a clubhouse with rooms, such as just mentioned. The difference being where the focus of the operation is aimed. I can't think of anything nicer than staying in a well appointed golf clubhouse with a limited number of really nice rooms attached. We had a very pleasant evening at a past BUDA cup doing just that at Royal Porthcawl, with an heroic barman who kept serving long after it was in our best interests for him to be doing so.
There is a balance to be found, where the best of both worlds exist. I'm keen to found out where that balance lays.
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Formby Hall just out side Southport (Eng) has a combo, but having only used it as a function venue and not as a club house can't really comment on how well it works...