Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Richard Choi on June 15, 2015, 10:56:22 AM
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I am heading out to Chambers for my first day. I will report back on how the course is playing and what players are working on during their practice rounds. I will also take some photos of logistics around the course.
I will be marshaling at 18th hole all afternoon. I am the one with the white bucket hat. If you are around, please come by and say hi.
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Thanks Rich and have a fantastic week mate...soak it all up
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Richard -
Keep on an eye out for Dornoch's Jimmy Gunn, who just got in the field as an alternate. He has toiled on the mini-tours and the Web.com tour in the U.S. for many years.
He has plenty of links golf experience.
DT
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Serious question, Rich: Have you approached (or been approached by) any pros or their teams regarding all you know and have compiled about the course? Seems like an invaluable resource the competitors would love to review. Thanks again for all your efforts; they've made an always-exciting week far, far moreso.
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(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10615448_10153370532994921_1412461728741581524_n.jpg?oh=c0e3e1d07241e5d9801f78d946456b44&oe=562BB8DE)
Benjamin, no, I have not been approached. I doubt that pros have ready any of it...
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Course Length and Driver Roll Out ....
Do I assume that the course will play so firm and fast that length off the tee is not that much of an advantage?
And that 200 yard approach shots will be played with 8 irons?
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Holy cow, I knew this was a big event, but logistics here is just amazing. I am overwhelmed by the sheer number of tents.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/the-us-open-greens-already-look-like-a-total-disaster/ar-BBlah6B
Are the greens really this bad??? This looks hateful.
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First impression. The course is much greener than I wa expecting. It is certainly greener than what it was for US Am. The overall condition is the best I have ever seen. These greens look great. It does not look like the photos in person. They look like the greens at Old Mac. Better than Bandon Dunes/Pacific Dune greens.
If it plays like this with 12 stimp greens, it should be perfect.
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Chambers Bay looks like an intriguing, unique, fantastic venue.
Given that it is an intriguing, unique, fantastic venue....
why on earth does the Mike Davis, aka The Open Dentist, feel the need to insert himself into the equation so blatantly with all the different setup options?
Changing pars on different holes daily?
I'm all for innovation, but in this case we have an innovative venue already-let's not push the envelope-let's save that for the boring crap we see weekly on the PGA Tour.
Golf has enough bigness.
Chambers Bay is big and bold.
Adding HOURS to practice rounds on an already brutishly difficult course to walk is absolutely the message we don't need to send amateurs and the casual viewing fan.
There are of course situations on classic courses that need adjusting due to the USGA's complete failure at equipment control-I get it, but those are courses decades and more old.
This course is brand new and if anything TOO big already.
Let's see the course played as designed, not at the whimsy of an seemingly increasingly overly involved setup guy.
It is confusing the issue for players and fans.
It's a shame because it seems to me Chambers Bay and its agronomy could be the star, not the setup guy......again.
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How are the wind conditions and what is expected weather wise this week? Which holes do you think will be most difficult in the wind?
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why on earth does the Mike Davis, aka The Open Dentist, feel the need to insert himself into the equation so blatantly with all the different setup options?
Changing pars on different holes daily?
I'm all for innovation, but in this case we have an innovative venue already-let's not push the envelope-let's save that for the boring crap we see weekly on the PGA Tour.
It's a shame because it seems to me Chambers Bay and its agronomy could be the star, not the setup guy......again.
+1(000,000).
The reason: Ego. There can't be any other explanation, as he's done it time and again, and we'll see this again in two years at Mr. Davis' personal playpen (Erin Hills). And he's got a lousy track record (see: Congressional) at it.
It's too bad, especially this week; everything I've seen and read on CBay (both the televised US Am and threads here) suggest this can be a unique venue presenting a test very few players will have faced before. I hope Mr. Davis doesn't screw it up.
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I don't know if Mike Davis really deserves that much scorn. He is just trying to stage the best event he can. US Open is known as that toughest test in golf and there is much drama that comes from it. Having options is always good.
Wind was pretty steady all day at around 10mph. It is enough that you have to think about it, but not so much that you worry about it.
As to the conditions, I was SHOCKED at how soft it was playing today. I am guessing they dumped a LOT of water last night as the fairways and greens were much greener than I was expecting and they were very receptive.
Wedges were sticking within 5 feet and mid-irons were holding on the same tier as the pin with no worries.
I am HIGHLY doubting that the course will play this soft come Thu/Fri. It is kinda cruel as players who got the first look at the course today, have no idea what the real course is like. They are in for a shock...
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So Richard, you are saying that the photo of the patch of poor turf on a green is an isolated, unrepresentative look at the turf conditions... and that the posted article is written in a hyperbolic style and not the real conditions on the ground?
I wonder if they are just watering in a prophylactic dose of PK and micros to withstand the wear and tear the turf will take. Even with typical PNW rain, don't she drain like a sieve and engineered to take and shake a lot of water?
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RJ, there are three different types of grasses growing on those greens; fescue, bent, and poa. They are all different colors and from photos they can look like poor turf. But I assure you, in person, they look just fine, even better when they get a little more brown. They also putt beautifully. It is quite smooth and even.
These are fine playing turf.
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I want to add one more thing.
Players who played this course for both stroke and match play will have a HUGE advantage (Ahn could be a very good dark horse). They played this course when it was over the edge (stroke play), and when it was more manageable (match play). They know who differently this course can play. It looks like USGA is going to slowly ramp up the difficulties this time. The course you play during practice rounds is not going to be the same course on Thu (and that won't be the same as the course on Sun).
Having experiences with how differently this course can/will play, will be a HUGE advantage in my opinion.
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Course Length and Driver Roll Out ....
Do I assume that the course will play so firm and fast that length off the tee is not that much of an advantage?
And that 200 yard approach shots will be played with 8 irons?
Some of the shorter pros have already come out and said that length is not an issue. Every ball roll dozens upon dozens of yards. This course favors no one. The guy who plays the best (as well as dealing with a few bad breaks the best) will be identified this week.
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why on earth does the Mike Davis, aka The Open Dentist, feel the need to insert himself into the equation so blatantly with all the different setup options?
Changing pars on different holes daily?
I'm all for innovation, but in this case we have an innovative venue already-let's not push the envelope-let's save that for the boring crap we see weekly on the PGA Tour.
As I opined on an earlier thread, putting this US Open at Chambers Bay gives Mike Davis his ultimate canvas. It's a brand new, wide open blank slate with virtually no constraints on what Mike Davis-isms can be imposed on a day to day basis.
He has the media fully bought into the narrative that the greatest players in the world will have to jump when Mike Davis says jump, dance when Mike Davis plays the tune and if they don't like it they're a bunch of spoiled prima donnas. P. J. Boatwright must be spinning in his grave. Joe Dey never had the sort of carte blanche with setups that Mike Davis has been granted.
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Good interview here with McDowell. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/33146290
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Brent Carlson is out there today and is reporting that greens are surprisingly receptive (what I saw yesterday).
I do believe the course will dry out some, but it looks like it will play softer than what I was expecting.
This means high flyers should win the day. I am liking Rory's chances a LOT right now (possibly going 8 to 10 under).
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Blimey Richard.
Bold assertions and great inside info.
If the wind is anything I don't give Rory a chance because of my pathetic theory that he can't hit a knock down shot but if the forecast is for benign stuff then I'm with you. I just need to find some bookies that are giving decent odds on him. ???
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Another report from Brent.
He is sitting at #5 watching the approaches. The pin is in the right and all the approaches at it are either ending up short in the lions mouth bunker or going through the green to the back.
Phil comes up, hits a draw that hits the slope on the left side of the green and feeds it towards the pin.
Brilliant!
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As Richard said - greens are receptive. They are fast but accepting shots. Scoring will depend on how firm the greens get.
Distance is not a problem. I am convinced ball technology has far outpaced course length. It's not even funny. I saw lots of driver - 9i / wedge on 490 - 530 par fours. Keep in mind the ball is rolling a long ways.
Chambers is the best course for viewing golf that I have witnessed. The numerous hillocks and elevation changes make for great viewing. One could even call it a stadium course.
Before attending today I pegged the winning score at minus 2. Now I can see it realistically being 8 under, depending on how soft the greens are maintained.
I am seriously excited for the first round, and most GCA posters will LOVE watching this tourney in HD. It will be spectacular. Buckle up.
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Looks great.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LeeMcCoyGolf/status/610934844152016898/video/1 (https://mobile.twitter.com/LeeMcCoyGolf/status/610934844152016898/video/1)
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USGA resorting to extreme measures to control scores.
https://instagram.com/p/4AYnUiK7th/
the above assertion is a joke
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Could you identify the holes that are most severely uphill and downhill. I understand 9 from the left tee drops 150 feet.It looks like the approach to 7 is up a pretty big hill.Is 8 uphill or just a more level hole on the ridge? Are 1 and 18 severely up and down? Does the slope on the course feel like Kapalua from an elevation change standpoint? What and how far are a couple of the long walks between holes? Is the bunker sand native and is it heavy?
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One more question: do you see any evidence that unlevel teeing areas will be used? The place looks beautiful. How far is it across the sound if you know? Thanks.
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Richard,
Thanks for the updates.
I have had multiple people mention to me that it looks terrific on TV. I would agree with them. Interesting that the course seems to be much softer than it was for the am, hopefully scores don't plummet too much ;D
Anyone who will be around tomorrow should PM me, I'll be making the day trip from Eugene.
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#7 is the most uphill hole that Chambers has. It goes up about 100 feet.
#12 and #4 is also steep uphill climb (over 50 feet).
#8, #10, #11, #13, and #18 are all slight uphill holes.
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Phil gets it!!!
http://www.golfchannel.com/media/phil-mickelson-press-conference-chambers-bay/
I almost cried at the 15 minute mark...
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Could you identify the holes that are most severely uphill and downhill. I understand 9 from the left tee drops 150 feet.
Geoff S. writes about the 9th:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/6/16/uphill-vs-downhill-the-9th-at-chambers-bay.html (http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/6/16/uphill-vs-downhill-the-9th-at-chambers-bay.html)
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Phil gets it!!!
http://www.golfchannel.com/media/phil-mickelson-press-conference-chambers-bay/ (http://www.golfchannel.com/media/phil-mickelson-press-conference-chambers-bay/)
I almost cried at the 15 minute mark...
It's funny because it's such a simple concept and yet so rare for Tour guys to grasp and appreciate.
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Please redirect me if it's in another thread but I'd really appreciate a GCA 'on the field' update.
Are the greens really bobbling? Is it playing as hard and fast as you hoped? Is the course holding up condition wise? Are they really at risk of 'losing it'? I'd it hour the usga were hoping it to be?
What is your opinion on how the pros are playing the course compared to how you know the course? Compared to the impression I got in Richards course tour the pros appear to be stopping the ball on greens quite easily and dare I say placement on the fairway not so important? From what I see it looks like it's playing like a traditional links.
These guys are good and are showing it.
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Ben, the course is receptive right now, at least to wedges. I suspect the course will firm up quite a bit over the weekend. Mike Davis was very worried about repeating what happened during US Am.
The greens are playing like a poa green with seedheads. I am really disappointed about inconsistencies in speed.
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Thanks Richard.
What do you think of the pros play? Using the strategies you thought or seeing things you never thought they'd do to get it close?
It looks great and I love seeing them hit massively long putts and using the back boards. Great fun.
Any chance of some wind this weekend?
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Ben, I am not too surprised that the pros are sticking their wedges. There have been many examples of mid-iron plays where the players used side slopes properly to access pins. I really love seeing that.
What has surprised me is how accurate these guys are with their drivers. Not just with directions, but with their carries. They are carrying some hazards with only few yards to spare. That really amazes me, and is not something I factored into my previews.
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Richard,
Yeah, I'm wondering that as well. Even on approach shots there are a lot of them that turn out very, very well but only because an iron shot landed 3 yards past a bunker on a uphill or downhill 160+ yard shot. But it's the driver ones that are most amazing.
I've got to think maybe some of those are just misjudgments that the player happened to get away with. Sure even the Dustin Johnsons of the world don't count on knowing for sure whether their 310-yard carry driver shot can clear a bunker lip at 306 yards.
Although to recycle a Tom Weiskopf comment from yesterday, if some of these fairway bunkers were stacked sod wall pot bunkers like on certain UK links courses then even the most aggressive Dustins and Bubbas might be giving them a wider berth. It does help to know that if your driver comes up 5 yards short and lands in a bunker you'll probably be able to reach the green from 170 yards anyway.
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What has surprised me is how accurate these guys are with their drivers. Not just with directions, but with their carries. They are carrying some hazards with only few yards to spare. That really amazes me, and is not something I factored into my previews.
Just from watching as I've never played CB,but there doesn't seem to be any downside to not carrying the fairway bunkers. They don't appear very deep and the bunker shots I've seen sit up OK.
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I would not say that.
If you do not carry the face at #7 (which is what I was referring to earlier), it will plug and you have almost no chance to reach the green with your second shot. Which is why I am shocked at the aggressive lines they are taking.
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I am amazed at what Jordan is doing right now. This course is playing very difficult with some very tough pin positions. Going 3 under so far in the back nine is very impressive.
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Thank you Richard, it really is great to have someone who knows the course, commenting on the us open.
Their driving is fantastic. Perhaps the wider fairways, yet still requiring accuracy has highlighted the really on form drivers.
I think the tournament looks amazing. An all round test that showcases the best shots and punishes mistakes, rather than just punish punish punish.
IMO this is the biggest contrast to other US opens, and tournament golf in general. Great shots are highlighted more. There seems to be a wider spread between those playing well and those playing badly. Maybe not wider in scores but in way the ball is controlled and the ground is used.
It looks super fun and super dangerous.
For example when Day misjudged his greenside bunker shot on the first it really showed the risk with missing on the wrong side. The ball trundled and trundled, ending up about 50 yards away. Yet what did a great player do? Holed the return pitch.
That is a course that identifies exciting courageous play.
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Will be out here all day working at 18th. I believe the course will be very firm today.
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Looks like they didn't water much last night. It is going to be a brutal day.
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Looks like they didn't water much last night. It is going to be a brutal day.
Rich,
The early scoring is corroborating your report. Keep us posted.
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Good stuff, fellow Rich
Is it true, as said in today's Sun (British newspaper, who's motto is all the news that is fit to print and lots more!) that CB/USGA is allowing smoking weed on the course? If so, maybe Tiger could have taken a toke or three and made the cut......
Rich
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Sorry, absolutely no smoking if any kind as it us so dry out here that any spark can start a fire.
17 is going to be awesome. Impossible pin, but only a sand wedge to it.
18 is a birdie hole today.
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I saw Rory play 18th close up and I was very confused.
He had a very easy bunker shot where all he had to do was to fly it 15 ft to the top of the ridge and let it feed down. He chose to fly it all the way to the pin and ended up in the fairway.
From there, all he had to do was to hit the ball to the backstop behind pin and let it feed down. He again went with the direct route and was fortunate to end up 15 feet away.
If he has been playing like this, he is throwing away three or four shots every round. He should be leading this tourney.
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Richard, did you not qualify this year to play?๐perhaps you should mention what you saw to Rory as I am sure he would appreciate the assistance with his course management. ๐๐๐
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He is playing well enough to lead this tournament. If he studied this course a bit more he would be.
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Richard, as I once remember Feherty writing in a golf magazine article that when a tour player looks through a yardage book for the first time, he will already understand that course better than the members!
He is now on his 5/6 or 7th round and I would be almost certain he knows how to play it better than anyone on this site.....and probably better than the architect!
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Then why did Sergio and Poulter take the correct line with the exact same lie?
I know this course. Rory made a couple of bad decisions.
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Too bad on a course that doesn't allow carts Dustin Johnson found a cart path. :o
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Richard,
First of all congrats on your great week. I'm truly envious.
Rory had the wind knocked out of him early in the round with three straight poorly putted holes. His heart wasn't in the round by the time he reached the 18th.
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Here's something unusual...
There is a huge fire just north if the course. The smoke plume is enormous.
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Here's something unusual...
There is a huge fire just north if the course. The smoke plume is enormous.
richard, it is a large warehouse down by the water on fire approx 1 mile away from the course-they are showing on tv
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This tournament is getting really strange. Day going down yesterday, all the missed short putts.
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Are my eyes just adjusting or if the course actually getting greener as the day goes on?
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We now have proof that finding your ball does not guarantee a great time.
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The greens are overcooked. We might actually agree on that John. Aside from that, what do you actually feel is missing here? Serious question.
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The greens are overcooked. We might actually agree on that John. Aside from that, what do you actually feel is missing here? Serious question.
Receptive greens that reward good shots.
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I think it is a perfect course for watching on TV. It maybe the most exciting tournament with a boring field of all time. I'm very happy for Richard Choi and Fox Sports.
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The greens are overcooked. We might actually agree on that John. Aside from that, what do you actually feel is missing here? Serious question.
Receptive greens that reward good shots.
So Tim, how would you feel about unreceptive greens which rewarded good shots, as per a traditional links golf course?
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Paul, if this were the British Open we assume that those type of courses are the best they have. This is the US Open and this is not the best we have. DJ just hit a 60 degree wedge from the tee hitting the green pin high and watched it bounce 20 yds left. Ridiculous.
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Today's play was very exciting to watch. Tomorrow should be even better. ;)
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The target is small, but you have a lob wedge in your hand. This is a 110 yard shot, if you cannot hit your target with a lobe wedge, you should be punished justly.
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(http://blog.codinghorror.com/content/images/2015/04/are-you-not-entertained.jpg)
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Are my eyes just adjusting or if the course actually getting greener as the day goes on?
I said the same thing just a few minutes ago.
And yes, Richard...Thoroughly entertained. Can't wait for tomorrow.
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I saw Rory play 18th close up and I was very confused.
He had a very easy bunker shot where all he had to do was to fly it 15 ft to the top of the ridge and let it feed down. He chose to fly it all the way to the pin and ended up in the fairway.
From there, all he had to do was to hit the ball to the backstop behind pin and let it feed down. He again went with the direct route and was fortunate to end up 15 feet away.
If he has been playing like this, he is throwing away three or four shots every round. He should be leading this tourney.
I believe Rory was one of those of the opinion that PGA Tour pros didn't need to study the course as their talent was so great as to make their chosen shots work.
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Our club, tends to have a lot of people watching the tournaments in the grill, especially majors.
Will be interesting to see what the Sunday crowd is. Seemed pretty quiet today, and I did not take
a poll, but most were either laughing, or shaking their heads at the events on the tv.
Like I said, interested to see the viewing crowd tomorrow
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Paul, if this were the British Open we assume that those type of courses are the best they have. This is the US Open and this is not the best we have. DJ just hit a 60 degree wedge from the tee hitting the green pin high and watched it bounce 20 yds left. Ridiculous.
Oh dear. You assume British links courses are inferior to lush and green U.S. courses. People interested in golf course architecture tend to disagree with you. I'm not sure when Ran decided to include people with zero appreciate of that fact but you might prefer a more populist site. Try golfwrx. It's more your level. ::)
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...This is the US Open and this is not the best we have....
Right! Let's send the US Open back to Torey Pines. ::) After all we have to have the best. :P
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The greens are overcooked. We might actually agree on that John. Aside from that, what do you actually feel is missing here? Serious question.
Receptive greens that reward good shots.
This is not the John Deere Open. The players are actually forced to figure out something beyond actual distance. I find that very entertaining!
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The greens are overcooked. We might actually agree on that John. Aside from that, what do you actually feel is missing here? Serious question.
Receptive greens that reward good shots.
This is not the John Deere Open. The players are actually forced to figure out something beyond actual distance. I find that very entertaining!
Agreed. It seems to me that the CB greens (and surrounds) do reward good shots. The trick is figuring out what a good shot is, and then pulling it off.
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Paul, you have to be a complete moron to read into my post that British Open links courses are inferior to American parkland courses. Those courses best represent the best of the British isles. CB does not represent the best of American golf.
If you can't tell the difference between links and parkland GCA then maybe you need a new site.
Garlan, Torrey beats CB every time and twice on Sunday.
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Tim
When was the US Open at the best course for American golf?
I think this week represents an USGA effort to show we play different types of golf here in the US including "links style".
Thanks
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Tim
When was the US Open at the best course for American golf?
The last time it was at Oakmont?
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Thus endeth my watch...
Had a great time out here, but heading home as I can see 18th grandstand is already getting packed.
I ran into Bruce Charlton and RTJ2 by the 18th green. Gave them congratulations and told them how much I enjoyed the tournament.
They looked like two of the proudest father on this Father's Day.
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Camilo Villegas and a filler player played their round in 3:45.
Not bad for a "10 mile" jog.
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Tim
When was the US Open at the best course for American golf?
The last time it was at Oakmont?
yes the treeless version of Oakmont will be fantastic
Henry Fownes did a great job there...yet it is far from a public place and in the middle of America's rust belt
I wonder what Chambers Bay will be like in 100 years...give them a chance
Thank you Richard for all your work on this site
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Thanks, Richard, youve worked hard. And for free! You should have a lifetime pass at CB. And you have an open invitation for an epic Chicago golf adventure.
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Judge, I will take you up on your offer the next time I am Chicago.
I just feel like my time writing up the guide was a colossal waste of time.
I was hoping that my articles would foster interesting discussions about wide variety of strategy and options available at Chambers Bay and talk about why certain players chose one route while others chose another. Out of all my guides, putting was probably the least amount of info about the place.
The tournament has delivered on what I promised. I hope you would agree that the variety of shots played by the players are greater than anything you have seen outside of The Open.
Hell, almost every hole at Chambers played at yardage differences of close to 100 yards, including par 3's!!!
But instead of talking about those shots, all we are talking about is poa and shitty greens.
I could have just posted a couple of pictures of the greens at CB and tag it #usopenLOL and it would have been as informative and intellectual as the discussions have been.
What a waste. I was mistaken.
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Wow, something about Chambers sure brings out the whining. Now we're whining about the whining.
Honestly you can't talk about strategy where there is none. You hit it where your ball stops in the fairway and then you hit it again. Mike Davis was the only strategist on course this week and he just took the championship from Dustin with the Sunday set up.
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Judge, I will take you up on your offer the next time I am Chicago.
I just feel like my time writing up the guide was a colossal waste of time.
I was hoping that my articles would foster interesting discussions about wide variety of strategy and options available at Chambers Bay and talk about why certain players chose one route while others chose another. Out of all my guides, putting was probably the least amount of info about the place.
The tournament has delivered on what I promised. I hope you would agree that the variety of shots played by the players are greater than anything you have seen outside of The Open.
Hell, almost every hole at Chambers played at yardage differences of close to 100 yards, including par 3's!!!
But instead of talking about those shots, all we are talking about is poa and shitty greens.
I could have just posted a couple of pictures of the greens at CB and tag it #usopenLOL and it would have been as informative and intellectual as the discussions have been.
What a waste. I was mistaken.
Definitely not a waste of time from my point of view, one of the best things I remember on GCA-- I have had them open all weekend.
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Richard
Not a waste of time, forget that
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Richard,
Give it a couple days. I can relate, as I was the grounds chair for the 2003 Open at Olympia. I also wrote a column for the Sun Times all week, handled all media including an interview on Live From on the GC. And we were pilloried because the course was said to be too easy because of the short rough. Which the USGA cut over my personal objections.
But it only took a few days to shrug off the bs and only a few more to appreciate how awesome the experience was. You'll be "there" within a week. Trust me.
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Rich,
Congratulations on all aspects of your participation in this year's tournament.
I think you're being too critical of the group's response. We all have our own opinions and motivations, and we don't want to be told what is great. We want to watch the tournament and decide for ourselves.
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The US Open should be held at the best courses regardless of location and regardless of their status as public or private and as of today Chambers Bay is not one of America's greatest courses. It does fit what the usga wanted public and in the Pacific Northwest. I know this may smell of eastern elitism but the over riding factor should be the best available course.
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Chambers Bay is producing a great tournament. That alone means it's "worthy" of a major championship.
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The US Open should be held at the best courses regardless of location and regardless of their status as public or private and as of today Chambers Bay is not one of America's greatest courses. It does fit what the usga wanted public and in the Pacific Northwest. I know this may smell of eastern elitism but the over riding factor should be the best available course.
What they wanted was for Mike Davis to be able to move tees 100+ yards from round to round. And get his name mentioned every 10 minutes throughout 8 hours of TV coverage.
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If you don't think the USGA is confused and misguided think about their commercials this year. They have gone from fast play and move up to compete and party with their cheat based handicap profit center.
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8) Hold it... best course or best available course? definitely a difference there ??? ???
i personally want best tournament players to be shown going and getting the trophy.
.. oh and those "get in the hole" arse yellers to be thrown out on their ear!
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8) Hold it... best course or best available course? definitely a difference there ??? ???
You got me there but you can't force a course to take a tournament they don't want.
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If you don't think the USGA is confused and misguided think about their commercials this year. They have gone from fast play and move up to compete and party with their cheat based handicap profit center.
Next year in their commercials the USGA should encourage "fans" to shut up after shots are hit.
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An improvement of etiquette could be the answer to grow the game. Don't under estimate the educated youth of our country. My 20 year old son came home from college and banned all phone use in any social setting. He claims his friends are sick of it all. Of course he attends LSU, the bastion of southern class.
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An improvement of etiquette could be the answer to grow the game. Don't under estimate the educated youth of our country. My 20 year old son came home from college and banned all phone use in any social setting. He claims his friends are sick of it all. Of course he attends LSU, the bastion of southern class.
You, of all people, are going to bemoan a lack of etiquette?!?! Wow, that's just awesome.
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Richard Choi -
Thanks once again for your efforts and hard work. You did an outstanding job.
DT
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The US Open should be held at the best courses regardless of location and regardless of their status as public or private and as of today Chambers Bay is not one of America's greatest courses. It does fit what the usga wanted public and in the Pacific Northwest. I know this may smell of eastern elitism but the over riding factor should be the best available course.
very stinky
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Richard,
Great job. Many of us have thoroughly enjoyed it.
You can't be blamed for people failing to actually discuss the architecture. A lot of people just can't discuss anything unless they are first greeted with something which looks familiar.
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I had not watched much of the tournament before today but this final round has to be one of the most entertaining US Open final rounds ever. People are zooming up and down the leader board and players are confronting their demons in a variety of ways.
Perhaps the greens are putting better today than they have in past rounds but they seem to me to be fine.
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Looks more like a middle school girls match. The grinding over short putts, for good reason, is making my eyes bleed.
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4 hours 10 round. Impressive pace of play for pros.
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A fair amount of gagging on the final two holes. He who puked last lost.
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With all the complaints about bad greens, what would have happened if the greens conditions were unanimously applauded as good to excellent? Lower scores? More birdies?
As it is, the scores look more like from the Masters than most U.S. Opens. A 64. Some 65s. A ton of 66s, 67s, and other scores under 70. There were 37 eagles -- and 64 others (worse than double).
The leaderboard was world-class. The hottest player on the planet won by birdieing the last hole. Lots of players put charges up on the leaders. Seems like the course delivered an exciting tournament -- and for what I think is only the sixth time, someone has a shot at the slam after the first two majors.
Richard, your efforts were not wasted, and are greatly appreciated by many. It's a shame for Rory that he didn't see or pay attention to your guide. He might have walked away with the title.
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Garlan, Torrey beats CB every time and twice on Sunday.
So you've walked and played Chambers Bay so that you can make that comparison?
I find that highly unlikely.
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I just feel like my time writing up the guide was a colossal waste of time.
I was hoping that my articles would foster interesting discussions about wide variety of strategy and options available at Chambers Bay and talk about why certain players chose one route while others chose another. Out of all my guides, putting was probably the least amount of info about the place.
The tournament has delivered on what I promised. I hope you would agree that the variety of shots played by the players are greater than anything you have seen outside of The Open.
Hell, almost every hole at Chambers played at yardage differences of close to 100 yards, including par 3's!!!
But instead of talking about those shots, all we are talking about is poa and shitty greens.
I could have just posted a couple of pictures of the greens at CB and tag it #usopenLOL and it would have been as informative and intellectual as the discussions have been.
What a waste. I was mistaken.
Nonesense. You did a great job, and it was greatly appreciated. Your desire for more intelligent discussion may be asking many to comment on a subject of how to masterfully and cleverly play various holes based on your presentations and graphics, whereby most of us don't play at a masterful and clever level... ;) ::) Many are on this forum as they state; "to learn". You did your bit by giving great commentary and descriptions along with grapics depictions. I'll bet anyone following your efforts learned plenty. So like JK says.... quit whining! ;D
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I just want to add my name to the long list of people who thanked Richard for his amazing effort in describing Chambers Bay to us all. Due to an afternoon commitment, I recorded the golf on Sunday, then returned home to watch it on TV with my laptop open to Richard's hole-by-hole descriptions. It made for great viewing and greatly enhanced my enjoyment of the event.
Thanks again for a job well done!
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Richard: I very much appreciated your insight. I have never played CB and frankly was prepared to dismiss the course entirely primarily because of the length and my perception that it was penal.
I drove my car for 1.5 hours this morning. The US Open was the majority of talk on two sports radio stations. The tournament was compelling. The finish was shocking. People are talking about the course and the necessity of playing off slopes.
The usga had control of this course for a long time and any complaints about the greens are on them.
I am all for prime time US Opens so if the greens get fixed then I would vote to rwturn to CB.
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A postmortem on Chambers Bay by Alan Shipnuck:
http://www.golf.com/golf-plus/chambers-bay-one-year-later-lessons-learned-its-2015-debut-big-stage (http://www.golf.com/golf-plus/chambers-bay-one-year-later-lessons-learned-its-2015-debut-big-stage)
Of note:
"The courtship of the USGA is ongoing. Before the end of 2016, Chambers Bay leadership is confident it will be able to announce that the course is hosting a U.S. Women's Open, with '22 being the first available year. By then a boutique hotel could be on the property; Pierce County is in negotiations with a couple of developers. Any new structure will include locker rooms and clubhouse components that are now lacking."
Mike Davis declined comment for this story, but Chambers Bay general manager Matt Allen says, 'We believe the USGA when they say it's a matter of when, not if, we'll get another U.S. Open...' "
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thank you Howard
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I thought Chambers Bay looked and played fantastic. A fairly high percentage of the posters here probably did as well.
The average golf fan watching on television did not. Same as the average golf fan watching the 2014 US Open at Pinehurst didn't either.
That's good. If firm and fast with wider corridors and less rough is ever going to get more widely accepted, it's going to have to get showcased. Just too bad that the bumpy green talk is overshadowing the discussion too much.
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There is a big article on Chambers Bay ("One Year Later") in the current Sports Illustrated golf supplement issue previewing the US Open at Oakmont.
http://www.golf.com/golf-plus/chambers-bay-one-year-later-lessons-learned-its-2015-debut-big-stage (http://www.golf.com/golf-plus/chambers-bay-one-year-later-lessons-learned-its-2015-debut-big-stage)
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A postmortem on Chambers Bay by Alan Shipnuck:
http://www.golf.com/golf-plus/chambers-bay-one-year-later-lessons-learned-its-2015-debut-big-stage (http://www.golf.com/golf-plus/chambers-bay-one-year-later-lessons-learned-its-2015-debut-big-stage)
Of note:
"The courtship of the USGA is ongoing. Before the end of 2016, Chambers Bay leadership is confident it will be able to announce that the course is hosting a U.S. Women's Open, with '22 being the first available year. By then a boutique hotel could be on the property; Pierce County is in negotiations with a couple of developers. Any new structure will include locker rooms and clubhouse components that are now lacking."
Mike Davis declined comment for this story, but Chambers Bay general manager Matt Allen says, 'We believe the USGA when they say it's a matter of when, not if, we'll get another U.S. Open...' "
Great article. Longer read than I thought it was going to be. Thanks Howard.
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USGA awards Chambers Bay with.... the 2019 U.S. Amateur Four-Ball Championship
mailto:http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2016/7/20/four-ball-the-usga-is-headed-back-to-chambers-bay.html (http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2016/7/20/four-ball-the-usga-is-headed-back-to-chambers-bay.html)
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Also the 2017 Pacific Coast Amateur, a very significant amateur event.