Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Ran Morrissett on April 12, 2015, 09:00:47 PM
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For thirty plus years, I have never played golf late on Masters’ Sunday. It’s like Nadal’s grittiness at the French Open .... hanging in there and getting the job done. Bottom line: I can sit on a sofa with the best of them.
Partly out of boredom and partly out of social protest, my amazing endurance record ended today after JS birdied 13. Chris Buie and I left GCA world headquarters and headed out for a quick eight holes at the Royal & Ancient Southern Pines GC.
There were a few ways that this Masters might have become riveting. One of them COULD HAVE BEEN on 11 after JS blocked his tee ball. For me, the trees mandated a set, prudent chip out. JS played it to perfection as well as the subsequent pitch to secure par. Sensible golf but not Masters’ Sunday spectacular.
Suppose there hadn’t been any (or at least fewer) trees. What might have happened? Alas, we will never know. :'(
Perhaps, he plays the same prudent bullet chip way right but maybe not. Having a go at the green would have been memorable, one way or another. The intangible ‘will he or won’t he’ seemed absent this year. Do you agree?
Playing this afternoon brought me no great satisfaction as my streak ended but the lack of swashbuckling golf didn’t warrant staying put.
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Ran -
I was thinking today of the luxuries and limits of strategic golf.
A wonderful champion is Jordan Speith.
A (still) wonderfully strategic course is Augusta.
The luxuries: that a golfer of average length, if he appreciates the nuances of great golf course design and consistently makes the right choices, can even today score well enough to win a major championship.
The limits: that such is the nature of strategic design that said nuances and options can be mastered by a smart young golfer, if he has enough Architectural Intelligence (AI*), even before he has played single round in competition.
Peter
* is part of the trade-marked Architectural Intelligence* to distinguish it from Artificial Intelligence (AI).
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the 16th could have been pivotal if Rose made the birdie and Spieth missed the par .... then Speith 2 shots ahead w/ 2 to play
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It's always interesting, to me, to observe the evolution of momentum of as many players as possible throughout a tournament.
There are inevitably ebbs and flows over 72 holes. The timing of your ebb could effect my flow for 3 or 4 holes and result in a 5 or 6 shot swing. Speith never let a single ebb last more than a hole. He hit enough crappy shots to finish close to par this week, but...
He completely demoralized the three other hot young guns before they broke a sweat on Friday. Can you imagine folding the tent 1/4 of the way through? McIlroy and Fowler managed to rebound while Day languished all weekend.
I think it was that fact alone...his ability to not let the door open at all, which is so rare, that kept me tuned in, until the putt on 16...
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Seems to me that there were about the correct amount of trees. More trees and recovery shots wouldn't be possible. Fewer trees, or no trees, and there would be nothing to recover from.
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Gentlemen,
This year our club here in Oz resurrected their "Masters Breakfast" shindig as the last 12 holes are feeding live on Monday 06.00a.m. Downunder. There were 60-70 "stalwarts" in attendance. It was interesting that no-one was riveted to the tele screens.
The chattering of the masses over devilled kidneys indicated very early on that a passionate and excited involvement was lacking in this band of committed gowfers!
The derring-do of a Nicklaus or Ballesteros, the lack of "swashbuckling" heroics a la Mickleson; the cut and thrust, or ebb and flow as J.S. describes it, were, for me, missing. As with yourself and Chris a goodly number of the breakfast party, myself included, left before the denouement and sallied forth to do battle on our own hallowed turf.
In my opinion this was symptomatic of the "stumbling stalwart" syndrome you are describing. Nostalgia! Nostalgia!
Cheers Colin
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I enjoyed it.
Yes, the set-up was different, but good scores were possible, and balls stuck on banks, and 'texas wedges' were less successful, and shots could be struck from a little out of position.
It is only once a year, and is one of the two best tournaments on television.
James B (not so curmudgeonly today)
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I don't think there was anything wrong with the set up. There were plenty of memorable shots played over the final round. These guys are so good that they seem to be able to get out of any trouble - and Augusta affords the possibility to escape if you hit a good shot. The problem was simply that one guy played so well that there was never any real doubt as to the winner, no changes of lead with resulting drama. It is always the way. Performances that we tend to think of in hindsight as "memorable" and "great" - e.g. Tiger at Pebble or Augusta 1997, Rory at Congressional or Kiawah, Kaymer at Pinehurst - are actually deadly dull at the time. I went to bed when Spieth hit it on the green at 13 - was about 10.30 and not worth staying up for on a school night!
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Spieth seemed like a swashbuckler when he went for the greens on 13 and 15 Sunday. He didn't have to -- Zach Johnson certainly wouldn't have -- but maybe he felt like the risk was worth it because the green aprons weren't shaved as tightly as they have been in past years. One thing seems clear: the riskier the shot, the fewer players who will take the risk.
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I suspect the relatively dull nature of this year's tournament was a one-year blip resulting from inexplicably soft conditions and a player on a hell of a hot streak, but it does strike me that the exciting shots at Augusta weren't very exciting this year. Balls weren't rolling out of the fairways and into trouble - if anything, the second cut acted as a safety net. Balls cruising toward fairway bunkers generally were halted before rolling in by the soft conditions. Balls weren't bouncing through greens or spinning back off the front, and even when they did they didn't run far. I saw balls stopping on banks and edges where in past years they would have rolled off into water or runoff areas.
I don't attribute the lack of "will he or won't he?" scenarios this year to trees or other architectural changes. I really just think the course was too soft and thus lacking any real risk for playing what would normally be bold shots, and the players were hitting the ball far enough to make approach shots on tough holes easy in such soft conditions. The worst was watching 13 and 15 - there was just no edge to those holes at all. Reaching in two didn't take two spectacular shots, but rather two average ones. The risk/reward balance was out of whack as a result.
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8) yeh, wonder if Chip Beck regrets not going for the 15th to challenge bernhard, instead locking in his 2nd place???
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8) yeh, wonder if Chip Beck regrets not going for the 15th to challenge bernhard, instead locking in his 2nd place???
Do you think the grass behind the 15th was as long and soft in Beck's year as this? Beck may have gone if he did not need to fear the pond beyond. Water behind a short par 5 is an oft forgotten great hazard.
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That misclub from Jordan in the first round would have found the water over the green in 2 out of 3 past Masters I'm pretty sure.
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Ran says about the 11th: "There were a few ways that this Masters might have become riveting. One of them COULD HAVE BEEN on 11 after JS blocked his tee ball. For me, the trees mandated a set, prudent chip out. JS played it to perfection as well as the subsequent pitch to secure par."
The 11th is now so hard that only risk averse, "sensible" play makes sense. That is a shame.
The new trees that tighten the fairway and shift the old LZ to the left are simply depressing.
If the goal was to toughen the hole, the way ANGC chose to do it was remarkable only for its lack of imagination.
Bob
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8) this was the first year that i got to watch a lot of the masters online, being arm-in-sling status on a couch, the 11th was the most boring hole as player after player bailed right on the approach and showed no real interest in taking that green on!
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Ran,
Sometimes the golf course can't orchestrate drama.
Sometimes the dice roll your way, other times not.
Look at Tiger's lopsided win years ago.
Was that before the trees on 11 :
Fate doesn't always follow our desires.
Hope you enjoyed your golf.
Why didn't you play earlier in the morning ? ;D
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Just goes to show how much personal tastes and temperaments have to do with this.
I found the US Open at famed Merion tedious to watch and aesthetically unpleasing, and the US Open at famed Pinehurst #2 equally (though differently) tedious. For previous US Opens, I have to go all the way back to Oakmont in 2007 for anything resembling a satisfying viewing experience. (The PGA Championships all blur togther in my mind, while the Opens are in a class by themselves.)
Meanwhile, at Augusta/The Masters: I enjoyed very much watching Jordan Speith play a (still) strategically interesting and lovely course brilliantly; and can go back all the way to 2007 or 2008 before recalling a Masters that wasn't, in its own way, fun to watch.
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The magic of Augusta is watching the ball rolling on the ground...towards the cup, away from the cup, towards the hazards, whatever..
Unfortunately, that didn't happen much this year because the grass was too lush and the ground too soft. I have no idea if mother nature was entirely at fault but I would rather see Augusta with less perfect lush grass and more roll. The excitement and danger of the shots increases significantly with firmness.
Bart
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Thankfully the rest of the public did not follow Mr. Morrissetts example.
CBS Sports’ final-round coverage of the 2015 Masters on Sunday, April 12, which saw Jordan Spieth win the coveted Green Jacket in record-tying fashion, earned an average household metered market rating/share of 9.6/20, up 23% from last year’s 7.8/17.
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Gary
Tiger did not play last year. A 23% increase with Tiger vs without is probably equivalent to a 27% decrease once you factor in the hordes of Tiger-but-only-Tiger viewers.
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WOW, a lot of negativity...I thought it was a wonderful tournament from start to finish. Shows you how little I know.
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I'm with you Cary. I loved watching that kid manage the course and dominate an elite field. I thought the turning point was when he got up and down on Saturday after a terrible double on 17 and very loose second to 18. If he screws up that pitch I don't think he wins the tournament.
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Lefty swashbuckled in that bunker shot for eagle.
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I liked it a lot.
Augusta National is an awesome tournament course. Great angles, great greens, and a great rhythm. Sure, Jordan Spieth had a big lead, but he still had to execute. He can sure roll those 10-20 foot putts. And always great to see a couple of older players on the first two pages of the leader board. Phil Mickelson played like a champion.
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8) yeh, wonder if Chip Beck regrets not going for the 15th to challenge bernhard, instead locking in his 2nd place???
Water behind a short par 5 is an oft forgotten great hazard.
I agree. Does anyone know if the shots going over the 15th green this year would have gone in the water in prior years?
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WOW, a lot of negativity...I thought it was a wonderful tournament from start to finish. Shows you how little I know.
Some people just like bagging on Augusta National. This year saw a bit of a runaway, with Mickelson and Rose doing their best. But in recent past we've seen some amazing finishes. Remember Adam Scott and Cabrera battling. Bubba and Louis in extra holes. But whatever paradigm you use to view Augusta with, that will shape your attitude towards it and, therefore, your comments.
Remember, we also saw a runaway at Pinehurst as Kaymer blew away the field. Was the course at Pinehurst at fault? I tend to think Pinehurst is great and that Kaymer was just on fire; similar to Speith. Speith had lots of chances to ruin things, but he did not. He played well and wise. Took chances when they presented good risk/reward opportunities based on the strengths of his game, otherwise he played wise/smart/safe.
As a matter of fact, I was chatting with friends during the final round and was rooting for a shootout (as I think the second nine at Augusta is arguably the very best stretch of holes for competitive golf). But when it became apparent that Jordan Speith had it locked up, I said to them that I was just going to enjoy watching him have his moment. We all seemed to agree and enjoyed his great play.
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I'm guessing we might have been lucky that conditions were a little lush . Given that it helped the long bombers more than anyone, if it had been harder and faster young Jordan might have won by double digits. He hit it that much better and managed his game more efficiently than anyone by a large margin.
Might have been a lot of people joining Ram rather than be party to watching a rout!
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They didn't stumble in the ratings - up 26% over last year.
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Ran, way to stir the pot my man!
There were a number of salient points from numerous parties weighing in.
For me, Mr. Speith was CLEARLY the most prepared man in the field to take an oddly soft set- up apart. Once hie distanced himself from the majority of the field, there was only one man beating him... JS!
He is as sharp tactically as ANY pro on the planet his age.
Couple that acumen with his talent ...when he is on...mail it in!
The young man has oceans of golf in front of him, but there is a calm confidence and classy determination about him that I haven't seen in an American since Hale Irwin.
Golf is a fickle game, as we all know, and are reminded of just how much that can be true quite often. That said, JS is about as solid a golfing horse to come out of the paddock in America since Mr. Woods.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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I've been playing around with the tracking app on the Masters website (http://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/track.html) and upon reading this thread I took it upon myself to look at some of the players who seemed to be in contention. Here's my very unofficial, way too small sample size look at what I saw from the app, as well as what I can remember from watching:
1. The position of the drive seemed to have little decision as to whether they played aggressively or not. Players who were in the fairway seemed to choose to go for the pins on the left side of that green whether they were on the left or right side. This is for, in my opinion, one of two reasons: 1. the soft conditions made pins on the left more accessible, and the small difference as to whether to play right or left held less significance, and 2. The distance guys are hitting the ball completely changes the hole. Jason Day had 158 yards in one of the days. Rory had 162. Lengthening it would be a bad decision, as it takes shorter hitters out of the mix almost entirely. But it's disheartening to see guys hitting pitching wedges into what is supposed to be (and from a scoring standpoint, still is) one of the most fearful long par 4's in all of golf.
2. The pin on Friday was in a horrendously boring location. For variety I could see them making the argument it's a good pin. In firm conditions it would be a pretty interesting pin to watch. In Fridays softness, it created no bold plays. The tee shot has been rendered more dull and the approach to that pin only made the matter worse. What a shame.
3. It should be noted that the alley for the patrons actually played a huge role in Speith's ability to get to the right side of the green if I recall correctly (the tracking app certainly seems to indicate this as well). Wouldn't it make more sense to push the trees into that alley, bring back the strategy of width (perhaps with a fairway bunker on the inside of the dogleg which could produce some exciting shots) make more sense?
4. There's been a lot of talk about the banks being shaved and it indicates that Phil Mickelson's ball stopped on the bank of the pond. I don't recall his ball doing this but this is something that would not have happened in years past.
Now to conclude, I think Spieth would have won this tournament this week regardless of the conditions or the setup. Could it have been closer? Absolutely. 16 seemed to be Justin Rose's last shot, and much like when Bubba ran away with it last year, the contenders, as much as they have in the past, couldn't seem to hit the bold shots that make days like that interesting. That's a shame. I'm in agreement that it would be nice to see the second cut eliminated in at least some areas. But really, this was more or less the same golf course we've really enjoyed watching the past few years. I just hope it's a bit firmer next year.
Also, don't be fooled by the uptick from last year. 2011 and 2013 fetched a 10.4 (Schwartzel and Adam Scott respectively winning each). 2010 fetched a whopping 12.0, largely cause Tiger was coming back from his scandal and him and Phil tore it up.
I just regret not putting money on Spieth when I was in Vegas a few weeks ago ;D
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Adam Scott flew the pin on 15 when it was left side, and finished in the water in front of 16 tee.
James B
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Adam Scott flew the pin on 15 when it was left side, and finished in the water in front of 16 tee.
James B
Could he not just write up a 7 then on the US handicap scheme and peg it up on 16 or have I got that wrong ;D
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Adam Scott flew the pin on 15 when it was left side, and finished in the water in front of 16 tee.
James B
And on the same hole Phil hit a towering 4 iron -- said he flushed it -- from on top of the hill, that hit in front of the pin, on a green sloping towards him, that still trickled over the back. Not all those greens were soft and receptive.
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::) 8)
Again, if its firm and fast , Spieth wins by 10 !