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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Mike Schott on February 02, 2015, 06:16:10 PM

Title: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Mike Schott on February 02, 2015, 06:16:10 PM
Without adding much if any length or being redesigned? And what qualities do they possess that allow for this? I apologize if this has been addressed which it probably has. I suspect Pine Valley is in this discussion and Augusta National is not.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Cliff Hamm on February 02, 2015, 07:43:06 PM
Do not have the resume of many others.  But Shinnecock Hills comes to mind immediately.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Mark Pritchett on February 02, 2015, 07:58:36 PM
Peachtree
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: David_Tepper on February 02, 2015, 08:07:19 PM
Riviera and Colonial have held up pretty well as PGA Tour courses. One thing they have in common is smallish greens.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Jonathan Mallard on February 02, 2015, 08:17:15 PM
Crystal Downs
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Gene Greco on February 02, 2015, 08:18:36 PM
Pebble Beach
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Jason Way on February 02, 2015, 09:26:58 PM
It depends on what you mean by "held up best".  Does that mean that they have retained their level of interest and enjoyment for their members and guests?  Or are you referring specifically to PGA tournament venues and resistance to scoring?
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Mark McKeever on February 03, 2015, 08:15:02 AM
Merion proved it  with the US Open in 2013.

I hope Wissahickon can prove it this summer for the PGA National Championship!   ;D
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Mark Pearce on February 03, 2015, 09:23:04 AM
Merion proved it  with the US Open in 2013.
Did it?  Or did the narrowed fairways and knee deep rough prove otherwise?
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Dan Boerger on February 03, 2015, 09:27:52 AM
Aronimink held up very well for the two years it hosted the AT&T National ... and without amping up the green speeds or with crazy pin positions.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Mark Steffey on February 03, 2015, 09:47:13 AM
Merion proved it  with the US Open in 2013.

I hope Wissahickon can prove it this summer for the PGA National Championship!   ;D

didn't merion add ~450 yds (6500 to 6950)?
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: D_Malley on February 03, 2015, 10:55:09 AM
Aronimink held up very well for the two years it hosted the AT&T National ... and without amping up the green speeds or with crazy pin positions.

What they did at Aronimink was slow down the greens and use pin placements that the members have never seen.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Dan Boerger on February 03, 2015, 11:41:55 AM
Good point Dave.

But they did not narrow any fairways, overly lengthen holes (save, perhaps, for #9). And I seem to recall it was 3rd or 4th in resistance to scoring those particular years on the tour. Pretty stout for a course "mostly" untouched (OK, touched and then restored) from Mr. Ross' design.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Mark McKeever on February 03, 2015, 03:43:42 PM
How long was Aronimink when Ross built it?  No way it's anywhere near the length it stretches to today.

Mark
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Dan Boerger on February 03, 2015, 04:11:39 PM
Mark - I will check when I get home this evening, but I think 6,613 yds (give or take!). So, yes, it has been lengthened over time ... but long then and still for a par 70.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Josh Tarble on February 03, 2015, 04:49:22 PM
Aronimink held up very well for the two years it hosted the AT&T National ... and without amping up the green speeds or with crazy pin positions.

What they did at Aronimink was slow down the greens and use pin placements that the members have never seen.

Is that true?  That seems like the best method for "protecting" a course I've heard.  More should be made of this imo.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Patrick_Mucci on February 03, 2015, 05:13:32 PM

Without adding much if any length or being redesigned? And what qualities do they possess that allow for this? I apologize if this has been addressed which it probably has. I suspect Pine Valley is in this discussion and Augusta National is not.


Mike,

The real answer is that none of them have held up.

They've all had to be modified.

The most common modification has been added length, but, a few have had to soften their greens to accomodate higher speeds.

With the added length, Winged Foot West and Shinnecock seem to have provided a more than adequate challenge.
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Mark_Fine on February 03, 2015, 05:21:25 PM
All the ones that have been carefully restored and/or rennovated  ;)
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Mike Schott on February 03, 2015, 07:18:23 PM

Without adding much if any length or being redesigned? And what qualities do they possess that allow for this? I apologize if this has been addressed which it probably has. I suspect Pine Valley is in this discussion and Augusta National is not.


Mike,

The real answer is that none of them have held up.

They've all had to be modified.

The most common modification has been added length, but, a few have had to soften their greens to accomodate higher speeds.

With the added length, Winged Foot West and Shinnecock seem to have provided a more than adequate challenge.

Thanks Pat. That's why I added the "best" qualifier. What design details about WFW and Shinnecock put them above most other courses in this regard?
Title: Re: Which classic era courses have held up best to the modern equipment and ball?...
Post by: Sam Krume on February 04, 2015, 05:03:38 PM
I think The Addington has maybe stood the test of time. I don't believe that many holes have been lengthened from what Abercromby originally layer out and it is still a great test.