Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Mark Saltzman on September 19, 2013, 09:17:46 PM
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(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps5e4a06d9.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps5e4a06d9.jpg.html)
Hole 1: Par 5, 528/576 Yards:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps73f42520.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps73f42520.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zpsbc390a86.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zpsbc390a86.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps264b8558.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps264b8558.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps7e4863ef.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps7e4863ef.jpg.html)
Hole 2: Par 3, 147/155 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps44515362.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps44515362.jpg.html)
Hole 3: Par 4, 372/385 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps68bf7d9f.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps68bf7d9f.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps59c8f7b3.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps59c8f7b3.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zpsf79ad6ae.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zpsf79ad6ae.jpg.html)
Hole 4: Par 4, 358/373 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps6bb1e5d0.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps6bb1e5d0.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps544ec586.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps544ec586.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps4c6e8bbc.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps4c6e8bbc.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps32b2c697.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps32b2c697.jpg.html)
Hole 5: Par 4, 421/438 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps4f2dbec4.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps4f2dbec4.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps880261c3.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps880261c3.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps056fd559.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps056fd559.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps186c679b.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps186c679b.jpg.html)
Hole 6: Par 4, 385/405 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps4f434b4b.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps4f434b4b.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps490f1a37.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps490f1a37.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps5bd1d088.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps5bd1d088.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zpsff23691b.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zpsff23691b.jpg.html)
Hole 7: Par 3, 172/183 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps83750019.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps83750019.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps9dc290dc.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps9dc290dc.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps3147b477.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps3147b477.jpg.html)
Hole 8: Par 4, 327/340 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps6d89b5b6.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps6d89b5b6.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps721febab.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps721febab.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zpsbc0c6741.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zpsbc0c6741.jpg.html)
Hole 9: Par 4, 416/446 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zpsf013cdd1.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zpsf013cdd1.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zps2dbab4f9.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zps2dbab4f9.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zpsc1e5550b.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zpsc1e5550b.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zpsc184a5b6.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zpsc184a5b6.jpg.html)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Whitinsville/file_zpsa582e451.jpg) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/SaltyLaw/media/Whitinsville/file_zpsa582e451.jpg.html)
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SCHWING!!!
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Spectacular! This really makes me hope that Silva is selected to draw up a master plan for my home course! Granted, my course isn't a Ross, but it's supposedly a Ross-like course. After seeing these photos, and what Silva has done at Canton Brookside (which I'll be playing this weekend as a birthday present to myself), I want to see what Silva can do to my course.
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Wow Mark. Am I the only one who has never heard of this course?
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Wow. Looks way cooler than I had anticipated.
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Yum Yum.
I love how the land rolls in New England. IMHO that tree on the fourth has got to go.
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I think the super is a member here. It's 9 holes, so, you know.... ::)
I agree it looks really incredible. Some of those tee shots look to really have you Thinking what line to take. The greens have a good mixture of features, also. As a member at a 9 hole course, which I love, I admit I'm envious.
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US Sacred Nine?
ATB
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Drove by hear a few years back on the way to the Cape it looked amazing - these photos are fantastic.
Has the interior section always been this open or did they go thru pretty heavy tree clearing?
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The first thing that strikes me is the way that all the fairway bunkers are marooned in rough. Why?
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Putting Brian Silva's name on Whitinsville like he co-designed it is a bit of a stretch ... what exactly did he do there? I've been going there for 25 years and it is still the same course I saw originally, just cleaned up a bit.
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A terrific looking golf course. The first hole with the volcano green is worth the price of admission.
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Here is an article about Gil Hanse's involvement starting in 2009.
http://www.telegram.com/article/20130602/COLUMN34/106029926/1118 (http://www.telegram.com/article/20130602/COLUMN34/106029926/1118)
A well-traveled friend of mine played here in a Massachusetts Open qualifier a few years ago and came back positively raving. It does look beautiful.
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That looks neat, to use an old term.
Does anybody see a similarity between the first green at Whitinsville and the first green at Plainfield?
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WOW, the land movement looks incredible!! :o
Mark
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Good looking course.
Jon
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Whitinsville is absolutely spectacular. The bunkers are secondary. The courses main defenses are the topography and the greens. As is so typical of Ross don't go above the hole or you're looking at a good chance of 3 putting and the greens are typically quick.
I play Whitinsville 5+ times a year. Usually the green speeds are fair. Earlier this summer though they were stimping at I would guess 12 or so and had eight 3 putts in 18 holes despite not feeling like I putted that badly. They are that diabolical. While Mark's pictures are excellent, it is impossible for a 2D photograph to pick up on the slope from back to front and the countours.
Fitting the course to the land is a hallmark of Ross and what a great job here. There are 4 holes where if you are short your ball is going to roll down the hill, but don't go over or you are either in trouble or good luck chipping/pitching down hill.
As to the tree on 4 it is essential. Whitinsville offers a variety of options off the tee. On four your choice is to fly the tree which is quite doable even if you don't drive the ball a mile, play out to the right if you're short, or hit a draw. Your choice.
Just a great course with options galore, wide fairways, great use of the land and among the best greens I have ever played. Challenging for all levels, although the extremely long hitter not as much. Only 9 holes, but what a 9 holes!
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The 9th fairway is quite a bit more dramatic than what pictures can show. Very cool drive.
I wonder whether the grass arround the greens was shorter in the past?
I had a lot of fun out there.
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I wouldn't call Whitinsville spectacular. It is not a stunning course in a way that suggests epic highs and muddled lows. I had the chance to shoot it, then play it on my trip to Cape Cod this year. I contacted them, based on TD's recommendation here on GCA. One drive-around, followed by a hurried nine to beat the nightfall is certainly not enough to make any claim to expertise. That being said, here is what I recall:
*The first and ninth greens are great spots for any child who wishes to develop a short game. They are enormous, varied and treacherous in places.
*The sixth is the most inspired hole. The design pulls your drive left, when right side is where you want to be. The approach over the hidden burn is challenging. The green is set on a flat with a drop-off front and a cool, right-greenside bunker.
The drive on eight is fun because you can take a run at the flat in front of the green...wait, the drive on five is the most fun because it is blind...no, the drive on nine is the best because it takes all you have to resist the siren call left and challenge the right center...wait, the fourth has the best drive because it floats forever before descending.
I would call Whitinsville a strong and balanced golf course.
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I like the divot repair bottles located in the rough on the edge of the landing areas - smart idea.
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The first thing that strikes me is the way that all the fairway bunkers are marooned in rough. Why?
Exactly. Reminds me of Plymouth CC when I got there. Grassing lines were off. Thank you, Ian Andrew.
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do 9 holers share an unfair advantage for ratings since they only present 1/2 the opportunity to have "weak" holes?
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do 9 holers share an unfair advantage for ratings since they only present 1/2 the opportunity to have "weak" holes?
Are you basing that on 9-hole course's undue dominance of rankings?
:P
'twas a time when top designers would take on 9-hole commissions, or better said owners would commission top architects for 9-hole courses.
Who knows how many parcels have had 18 mediocore holes squeezed in where but 9 fine holes were there to be found?
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You couldn't cram 18 holes into this property.
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wasn't basing it on anything. just asking a general question.
and Ronald is right, there is not room to squeeze 12 holes there - let alone 18.
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You couldn't cram 18 holes into this property.
Good point about cramming in 18, but back when Ross was hired clubs would get a top designer even if they only had plans for 9. Going over the Ross catalog, I lost count of 9 hole designs around 40. How many has Doak done? I think it's around 0, and if not that exactly, I'm sure it rounds to that. What percentage of designs by Nicklaus, Fazio, or Rees Jones (or Hills, or Brauer, or any modern architect, except maybe Randy Thompson down below the Tropic of Capricorn) are 9 holers?
My point about cramming in 18 is about the modern need for 18, not the appropriate use of a small parcel for 9 in the Golden Age.
The lost art of the 9-holer is a shame. it's unfortunate that there aren't more opportunities to design 9-hole courses, as a good, local club can function well around 9 holes.
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I've got family in this area, so I've wanted to check out this course for quite some time. I'll have to amp up my efforts!
For those who have played both: 9 at Whitinsville or 4 at Yale? Go!
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do 9 holers share an unfair advantage for ratings since they only present 1/2 the opportunity to have "weak" holes?
Who knows how many parcels have had 18 mediocore holes squeezed in where but 9 fine holes were there to be found?
or had a fine 9 holer spoiled by the addition of 9 more mediocre holes to get to the magic 18 number
the UK has many of these
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You couldn't cram 18 holes into this property.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that i read somewhere that the clubs own some adjacent land.
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9 at W is more dramatic than 4 at Y. The forced carry over the swamp, even to the bail-out left, is more daunting there. Elevated tee, low swamp, elevated fairway, low between landing zone and green, elevated green. Way more topsy-turvy at W than Y.
I don't remember green #4 at Y well enough to compare it to W. I know that W 9 green is big enough to hold the medium-to-long shot that comes in. It has enough fall-off to require an accurate play as well.
It depend on the tea you prefer to drink.
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9 at W is more dramatic than 4 at Y. The forced carry over the swamp, even to the bail-out left, is more daunting there. Elevated tee, low swamp, elevated fairway, low between landing zone and green, elevated green. Way more topsy-turvy at W than Y.
I don't remember green #4 at Y well enough to compare it to W. I know that W 9 green is big enough to hold the medium-to-long shot that comes in. It has enough fall-off to require an accurate play as well.
It depend on the tea you prefer to drink.
Agreed that Whitinsville wins the prize for drama in the comparison although Yale 4 has the larger and more interesting green. No need to quibble as they are both fantastic golf holes. JNC has been on the milk carton for the better part of the last year and swoops in to stir the pot and is gone like a thief in the night. ;D
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I agree...I would have made a comparison of W#9 and some other hole of greater land variety at Y, like #1 or #17.