Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: David Davis on July 20, 2013, 05:25:56 PM
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Gentlemen,
I'd like to start this thread by reflecting on a great week filled with more golf than most of us could handle. Personally I managed 11 rounds in 6 days. Having just returned from the US were I played 17 rounds in 17 days I've had enough golf to last me at least until next weeks medal. The BUDA was all walking and I have the blisters (even blood blisters) to prove it.
Let me paint a picture of what we experienced. 75-80 degrees, sun, no wind and the top 5 + a few more courses in The Netherlands. Heavy competition in nearly every round, amazing shots, camaraderie, wins and even the agony of defeat. Personally I even witnessed an act of some greater force when my opponents recovery shot faced with utter catastrophe fell into a sprinkler pit on a steep downslope to a very nasty bunker allow for an easy drop (placement of the ball) and easy par rather than a lost hole. But I digress...that's golf.
I'm a little disappointed that the weather over cooperated as it just didn't give a realistic picture of what golf life is like here in The Netherlands. Nonetheless we made the most of it.
I'd like to ask everyone to mail me your final scores so we can adjust the BUDA Cup accurately. I'm certain Europe managed to win in the end along with some key designated batters I managed to drum up at the last minute. They've been called ringers but hey I did what I could to help my team when faced by unsurmountable odds.
To generalize the reactions about the courses and start this discussion and thread I'd like to make the following statements that seemed to be the feelings of BUDAites regarding the courses:
Noordwijkse - My personal favorite by a mile: great links terrain, shame for the holes with trees, very difficult, brutal rough, too many false fronts on greens. Best greens by a significant margin.
De Pan - Most fun, easiest walk, club that could be played day in and day out. Best architecture and use of land and best routing.
Royal Hague - most dramatic terrain, not to be played daily, many great holes. Firm and fast.
Kennemer - Great course, brutal rough, favor to B and C routings, great clubhouse.
Swinkelsche - please add feedback
Eindhovensche - please add feedback
Hilversumsche - please add feedback
I look forward to hearing all thoughts and crowing the Europeans team as BUDA champs, again.
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You have got to mention the 5 star hotel that we got for a 3 star price. Even though I overheard that our esteemed Mr. Pearce is used to staying in more seedy places, I would wager that most BUDAites enjoyed that place very much.
All else being equal (dues, convenience to get there) I would join Kennemer. You have got to love three walkable nine hole loops of world class quality, manageable rough, no tee times and a fantastic clubhouse terrace. 18 Colt holes make for a great championship course and the Non-Colt loop is certainly good for 9 holes of after work excitement.
If I had just one round to play, I'd choose Royal Hague for the variety and the drama. I don't know what's wrong with that course. Does anyone?
The biggest challenge is certainly Noordwijkse. Very quick greens, very unforgiving off the fairway and a pretty tough walk. More of the very best links holes of the Netherlands are there than at any other course.
De Pan provides the best flow. While some of the holes on the front 9 are a bit similar, it does use them to good effect, namely to allow for a brisk pace of play.
Ulrich
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What a wonderful week of golf! Getting the chance to play all the top courses in the Netherlands was such a treat, a trip that I will never forget. I know that all who attended truly appreciated all of the hard work that David put in to make it happen. Thank you once again.
When the Euro team had a few last minute cancellations, he went to his little black book, and came up with two pros, a +1 and a 1 handicap. David, do you have any golfing friends who are not superb golfers? :)
My wedge out of an impossible lie on Hole 16 at the Royal Hague was near perfect. One more yard and it carries right to the hole. It landed one yard on the green, just where I aimed it, from very thick heather. It should have pitched forward, but rolled back a bit, right into the sprinkler head cutout that I knew was there as a safety mechanism. But that was no easy two putt! Beware of a good grinder with a bad swing! :)
It is really hard to rank the courses after playing most only one time. I think Royal Hague was my favorite and I loved the fast and firm conditions. I loved their greens, even if they played a tad slower than Noordwijkse. RH certainly has the most dramatic site, but it is a very playable course. The walk is not easy and there are a fair number of climbs to the teeing area, (especially the back tees) but the views were well worth the walk. I am a fan of elevated tees but I know some may say there was too much of this. Playing the back nine in one under made the walk much easier.;)
Du Pan was just an absolute blast to play. This course wins the FUN contest, hands down. Here is a course which used elevated tees and greens more sparingly than RH, so when you come to a great hole like 17, the WOW factor is increased. IMO.
Noordwijkse is a great course for sticks, but very difficult for lesser players. The greens were superb and held shots, which is perfect for really good players who can easily carry the numerous steep upslopes to the greens. I understand that local nesting bird restrictions create an issue with what can be cut off the fairways/short rough, but it would really help lesser players if the playing corridors could be widened and the penalty for missing the fairways not quite so severe.
Kennemer was excellent, so many great holes on this property!
Hilversumsche was fun but would benefit from massive tree removal. I only pulled out driver once on the front nine (a mistake) and when the course finally opened up a bit for the last 7 holes, it was a welcome relief. You could see that there is a very good course there, but much of it was obscured by trees. The trees also keep much of the course in shade, especially tees and greens, so the turf would be so much better with selected tree removal.
I think the Euros had a solid lead, and were well on their way to winning, until the English contingent left early and the singles competition fell apart. In any event, it was so nice to meet so many great guys. I'll be interested in hearing from some of the others who have a better "GCA eye" than me!
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David,
Great week, good recap. Sorry I could not attend more.
In terms of courses you forgot International.
Maybe also include Hoge Kleij, Spa, Knokke and Turfvaert which were played by a subset of Buda
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Some Noordwijkse photos first! I'll post my comments later.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010882_zpsff51b854.jpg)
The heart breaking par three 17th at Noordwijkse.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010873_zpsa3fdd50e.jpg)
Looking across the 16th hole towards the modest and charming clubhouse.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010851_zpse6568faa.jpg)
A man on a mission; Bill "The Grinder" Brightly marches towards another par at the 7th.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010434_zps18a420c1.jpg)
Looking back up the 8th hole at Noordwijkse.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010432_zps74eed538.jpg)
Whitty having a moment at the greenside bunker of the 8th.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010409_zpsf74daa06.jpg)
David Davis teeing off at the first during Monday's afternoon round.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010391_zpsbc5c98b7.jpg)
Wouter plays a backhander at the 15th; it landed on the green!!
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010382_zpsd31279e7.jpg)
Whitty also trying to get close at the 13th.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010375_zps725bcfb1.jpg)
John trying to get close at the 13th.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010374_zps4ee593b3.jpg)
Dónal putting to the diabolical pin position at the 13th.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010357_zpsb99ee72b.jpg)
John & Wouter deep in conversation at the 11th tee.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010343_zps7f420d2b.jpg)
John's tee shot at the par three sixt at Noordwijkse.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010342_zpsf73a5be3.jpg)
Wouter's tee shot at the par three sixt at Noordwijkse.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1020176_zps9b444430.jpg)
Noordwijk aan Zee strand.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1020167_zps2fc914e0.jpg)
The 5 star Huis ter Duin hotel.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010896_zpsbe01495b.jpg)
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010895_zps0cde104f.jpg)
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010893_zps0859a1a8.jpg)
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010892_zps39e8cdfc.jpg)
The wonderful views from the hotel bedrooms.
Some photos from De Pan.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Utrecht%20GC%20De%20Pan/P1010843_zpsd43a025a.jpg)
Utrecht GC De Pan clubhouse.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Utrecht%20GC%20De%20Pan/P1010826_zpsd966545c.jpg)
The wonderful short par four 17th (De Pan).
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Utrecht%20GC%20De%20Pan/P1010768_zps9922e2fd.jpg)
The spectacular short par four 10th (De Pan).
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Utrecht%20GC%20De%20Pan/P1010762_zps55c65fa9.jpg)
Traffic signals at De Pan 10th tee.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Utrecht%20GC%20De%20Pan/P1010710_zps1adca517.jpg)
David Kelly plays a recovery to the third green (De Pan).
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/The%20International/P1010523_zpsc1bf135d.jpg)
The surprise package at BUDA XI ;). The 10th; yet another tame green at The International.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/The%20International/P1010480_zps68d9a4c8.jpg)
The par three 4th at The International.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Royal%20Hague/P1010650_zps9875f9ff.jpg)
The tumbling tenth fairway at Royal Hague.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Royal%20Hague/P1010629_zps3bba3504.jpg)
The downhill long par three 8th (Royal Hague).
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Royal%20Hague/P1010596_zpse704e132.jpg)
Ward booms one down the 1st at Royal Hague.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Royal%20Hague/P1010595_zps7610a2c4.jpg)
Andrew Hastie displays finesse and balance on the 1st tee.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Royal%20Hague/P1010594_zps2ac1e47c.jpg)
With usual German precision, Ulrich divides the fairway with his drive at the 1st at Royal Hague.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Royal%20Hague/P1010591_zps361837b7.jpg)
Bill, Conrad, Steve, Ulrich, Ward and Mike pose on the 1st tee (Royal Hague).
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Royal%20Hague/P1010588_zps8ee485d8.jpg)
Royal Hague clubhouse.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1020178_zps8061a2cf.jpg)
The sun sets at Noordwijk aan Zee and heralds the closing of the first continental BUDA.
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A few more from Kennemer.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020165_zpsd325330f.jpg)
Hole 9 on the Pennink (B) nine.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020163_zpsc3fd4c5e.jpg)
The Kennemer cat.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020161_zpsc917dfdf.jpg)
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020153_zpsca04debd.jpg)
Joe hitting his second to the 9th on the Colt (C) nine
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020137_zpsad672591.jpg)
Some spectators behind the ropes on the 7th (C-Colt).
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020116_zpsdd293b24.jpg)
Renamed "Mount Wilson". Steve hit a mashie up onto the green and drained a 40 footer for a birdie.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020120_zpsfbf34164.jpg)
Just for fun, Joe tries a bunker shot at the 6th (C-Colt). His tee shot had already hit the green and he made par.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020065_zpsb8c5f256.jpg)
Steve donated his clubs to the golf club after his amazing feat at Mount Wilson.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1020049_zpse812724b.jpg)
Looking back down the par five 7th (A-Van Hengel).
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1010920_zps7c220418.jpg)
The lovely 2nd on the Pennink nine.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1010906_zps76eb50fd.jpg)
David D, Dónal, David K, Mike, Hart.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Kennemer/P1010904_zps616a8914.jpg)
Same photo, David D, Bill, David K, Mike, Hart.
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Donal,
Thank for the tour. Great photos. The only thing missing is your comments. Would be great to know what you thought of the courses as well
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Thanks much to David and Frank for all of the work they did arranging the various courses. Back to work today, will comment on the courses in the next day or so.
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Great to see all the photos coming in and I look forward to some good disscussion in the near future! Once again thank you to David and Frank for organizing everything!
By the way, I would love to hear everybody's favorite golf hole in The Netherlands?
I have no photos but my personal favorite is the 6th at the Royal Hague!
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Here are my first three course albums with pictures and commentary below (pause the slideshow to read them):
https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/KoninklijkeHaagsche#slideshow/5903501831165912082
https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/Noordwijkse02#slideshow/5903499522255021986
https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/TheInternational#slideshow/5903500994164275890
Ulrich
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Finally, a few photos from Hilversumsche GC.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/HilversumscheGC/P1020338_zpsbe2d3bdb.jpg)
Hilversum's modest but very adequate clubhouse.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/HilversumscheGC/P1020295_zps80a2987c.jpg)
The surprising par three 14th. The bunkers were not visible from the yellow tees.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/HilversumscheGC/P1020250_zps1b31eb80.jpg)
Kyle Phillip's 18th green surround.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/HilversumscheGC/P1020232_zps3c7a3d17.jpg)
The solid par three 8th.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/HilversumscheGC/P1020221_zps085aa3f5.jpg)
David knocking one on the green from the dominating fairway bunker on hole six.
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Andrew, really? I wouldn't have ever guessed that's your favorite. 423 meters par 4 or something into the wind with a green you cannot really run it up on.
My favorite holes:
Noordwijkse #2, #8, #13 and #17
De Pan # 16, #10 and #8
Royal Hague #7 and #14
Eindhoven #2
Kennemer #C7 and C5. A3.
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David,
Yes it's not the easiest hole! Par 4 1/2 especially in the wind.
It is certainly a better hole as a par4 now they have cleared out a lot of rough around the fairway, when I first played it anything outside the fairway was pretty much dead.
A good driving hole were keeping the driver close to the sand dune on the right gives the best angle into the green. Second shot uphill to green protected with a sort of false front that runs into the bunker left or a deep swale right. Requires a very precise shot into the green. A tough hole but I like the challenge!
I believe after Frank's renovation they had to soften the slope into the green side bunker, a little to extreme!
I see you like blind shots or at least holes were it is difficult to see where you're going! Depending on the day and wind the 2nd & 8th have blind shots to the green. Royal Hague 7 is blind tee shot and 14 you can see very little from where you're going. Kennemer C7 is also blind tee shot and the 10th at De Pan is also difficult to get a good line with your second shot.
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Good to read and see you had a great time.
Really sorry I missed out! Hope to be able to join another time.
I had to 'make do' with the following of which I'll try to make
a little summary soon:
- Royal St George's
- Huntercombe
- Oxford GC
- Frilford Heath Blue
- Woking
- Herkenbosch
Just before that I managed to play both Noordwijk (homecourse) and the Kennemer
All in all not bad either ;-)
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David,
Yes it's not the easiest hole! Par 4 1/2 especially in the wind.
It is certainly a better hole as a par4 now they have cleared out a lot of rough around the fairway, when I first played it anything outside the fairway was pretty much dead.
A good driving hole were keeping the driver close to the sand dune on the right gives the best angle into the green. Second shot uphill to green protected with a sort of false front that runs into the bunker left or a deep swale right. Requires a very precise shot into the green. A tough hole but I like the challenge!
I believe after Frank's renovation they had to soften the slope into the green side bunker, a little to extreme!
I see you like blind shots or at least holes were it is difficult to see where you're going! Depending on the day and wind the 2nd & 8th have blind shots to the green. Royal Hague 7 is blind tee shot and 14 you can see very little from where you're going. Kennemer C7 is also blind tee shot and the 10th at De Pan is also difficult to get a good line with your second shot.
Andrew, actually you might just have something there. Never thought of that. Royal County Down is one of my favorite courses, blind shots galore there. I guess I like have to rely on your visualization of what's going to happen. I also putt with my eyes closed a lot and always fall back on that when I lose my feeling, plus I play my best in high wind and even rainy condition when visibility is poor.
However, that only works for a few of my favorite holes, the rest are not blind. Unless of course it's raining hard.
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Donal, while I laugh at your comments, you realize that bunker was about 250 yds from the hole with a steep face and I was hitting a 9 iron out of it. Something I think you are giving me more credit than I deserve. I DID however, make par and sink a 20 ft putt in doing so to win the hole.
Then I might of commented how nothing was falling!
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I have a very simple question:
How come Frank Pennink is credited for having built the A loop at Royal Hague in 1985, when he died in 1983?
Ulrich
PS: More Slideshows:
https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/UtrechtseDePan#slideshow/5903702441978372962
https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/Kennemer#slideshow/5903933801834866866
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I have a very simple question:
How come Frank Pennink is credited for having built the A loop at Royal Hague in 1985, when he died in 1983?
Ulrich
Ulrich it must be something to do with how talented those old dead guys were. ;)
So amongst others we've had a Buda in the land of dragons, the left handers one (Alwoodley) and now a Buda in Shorts!
Looked like I missed an amazing event.
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I have a very simple question:
How come Frank Pennink is credited for having built the A loop at Royal Hague in 1985, when he died in 1983?
Ulrich
Ulrich:
I presume you mean Kennemer. When I was there the first time, in 1983, 3-5 holes of the new nine were completed, though they hadn't started working on the rest that I could see. Presumably these holes were Pennink's and he had drawn the plans for the rest.
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Conrad and Steve
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/wcb323/Royal%20Hague/ConradSteveatRH.jpg) (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/wcb323/media/Royal%20Hague/ConradSteveatRH.jpg.html)
Mark, Ulrich and Ward
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/wcb323/Royal%20Hague/Mark-Ulrich-WardatRH.jpg) (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/wcb323/media/Royal%20Hague/Mark-Ulrich-WardatRH.jpg.html)
The very cool short par 4 # 16 at Royal Hague. One of my favorite holes from the trip.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/wcb323/Royal%20Hague/RH16thtee.jpg) (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/wcb323/media/Royal%20Hague/RH16thtee.jpg.html)
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The blind tee shoy at RH #7. As a fan of the occasional blind tee shot, I REALLY liked this hole:
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/wcb323/Royal%20Hague/7RH.jpg) (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/wcb323/media/Royal%20Hague/7RH.jpg.html)
The approach:
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/wcb323/Royal%20Hague/7thgreenRH.jpg) (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/wcb323/media/Royal%20Hague/7thgreenRH.jpg.html)
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Looking back on the Netherlands portion of my trip there really was a lot of good golf.
We played two different modern courses and they were very different in nature. The international reminded me of a number of CCFADs in the United States. I think that is exactly what they are going for as well so they accomplished their mission. Swinkelsche on the other hand is a course that has multiple options with most shots. There are a number of holes that I wish I could play again. For example on #8 I want to go back and try to hit a shot to the peninsula that sticks out on the right. With the slope running away from the tee it may be tough to stop but I want to try it a few times. Also wish I could re-hit my tee shot on #11. I thought I hit a pretty darn good tee shot at the green but couldn’t find the ball (also didn’t see a cloud of dust in the waste area). It was also interesting to hear Frank talk about getting paid to take soil that was used on the peripheries of the course.
As far as my favorite courses from BUDA I rank them:
Royal Hague
Utrecht De Pan
Kennemer (the first and last 9’s we played)
Noordwijkse
Eindhovensche
The two holes that stand out most in my mind are both par 3's. The par 3 6th on the C course at Kennemer is an intimidating tee shot with the steep slope and bunkers at the bottom. From the tee it looks like the bunkers would be impossible to get out of. In reality the slope is not nearly as steep as it appears. The greenside bunkers on 16 at PGA West Stadium are a bit more severe but don't look as intimidating when hitting your shot to the green. The other hole is the 16th (?) and Eindhovensche (the view cleared by Frank along with the story make it quite memorable).
The experience that I’ll remember most from the Netherlands didn’t have much to do with golf but occurred after Hoge Kleij. The course is adjacent to Camp Amersfoort which was used as a concentration camp during WWII. The impressive 9th hole borders the current grounds for the memorial. After the round I walked around the camp. The visitor center was closed, no other cars were in the parking lot and I had the place to myself. I walked the paths and can tell you it was a bit spooky seeing the ruins of the morgue and the rebuilt trenches. Walking down a path towards a statue of an emaciated prisoner I got chills. The walk is down a firing range with large land berms and wire on both sides. It’s like walking down a tunnel where all you see is grass berm, barb wires and tree canopy above. I’m not sure if it was a location utilized for executions but that’s definitely the feeling you get walking alone down the path. I’m glad I was able to walk back out to the car.
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Anyone have any comments about Swinkelsche?
I think that's the only one that's had a routing map posted.
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Great photos of some really interesting courses.
Is the 17th at De Pan as amazing in real life?
That greensite looks out of this world good...
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Joe P. I commented a bit on Swinkelsche. The course is good fun and seems like a great option to play at a modest 50 Euro price tag (supposedly low cost in the Netherlands). There is a lot to it that the GCA crowd will like. To go further it was the best modern course I played of the 40 or so courses I played in the last month (only 4 were modern courses though).
Chris the whole course at De Pan is really solid. I was down on 17 at De Pan after playing pretty well. Not sure if you are able to get a good picture of the verticality of the hole. There is fairway then a fairly steep rise where the rough is. The first bunker on the right is about half way up the rise. On the card the hole plays 270ish meters. I was thinking under 300 yards. I can hit driver hard and maybe hit partway up the slope and hope it runs to the farway short of the green (David played a 3 wood to center fairway). I hit a solid drive a bit to the right and hoped it flew into the bunker...it didn't get that far and rolled to the bottom of the hill just into the rough. When I walked to my ball I realized the fairway short left of the green is really small. I don't know exactly how I was fooled into thinking it was larger than it was. I remember feeling like the fairway area was smaller than the green...even in the picture it looks like a large area.
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Joe,
I thought Swinkelsche was really good. In fact (and I know I'll be in a minority here) I'd rather play there than Noordwijkse. I'll post some thoughts on the other courses I played (I missed the Thursday an Friday) but Swiinkelsche made me think more than any other course I have played in the past few years. There was barely a shot where serious thought wasn't necessary to decide what shot to play next.
Built on land that was originally perfectly flat the shaping is wonderful. It's no exaggeration to say that in a few years, when the course starts to mature, I imagine it will feel as if it was built on an entirely natural stretch of rolling heathland. The contrast between the sympathetic, subtle shaping at Swinkelsche and the awful mounding at The International was night and day. Swinkelsche has an excellent set of par 3s. The best par 3 set of any modern course I have played. Arguably it lacks a really short par 3, but that really isn't a knock on the course.
The par 4s are also a good set. If I had a criticism it would be that they can be a bit too complicated (in that it can be too difficult to work out how to play them) but they work really well. I wasn't a fan of the 8th, which Joe did like (which just shows how opinions can vary), I thought the carry too the peninsula was a shot no sane golfer would take on and that playing safely down the left made the hole play too hard, with a long iron or utility second to a small green with water and bunkering right and OOB and trees hard on the left. 7 was an interesting par 5 but combined with 18 was just a bit too busy. Certainly 7 and 18 could be cured by the removal of a bunker or two.
Overall, though, I was really, really impressed by Swinkelsche. It played firm but not yet fast and was a real thinking man's course. Architecturally superior (in my opinion, others may vary) to Noordwijkse and in better condition, on the day, than Eindhoven. I'd love to see Swinkelsche again in 5 years, when the course has properly grown in. I don't play a lot of modern courses but I would say that Swinkelsche stands comparison with Renaissance Club and MPCC Shore. Certainly, for me, the surprise package of the week.
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Chris,
Here are two more photos of the 17th at De Pan. I played a 3 iron off the tee and then a easy wedge to the green, as I was +2 with two holes to play, so didn't want to mess up a good score.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Utrecht%20GC%20De%20Pan/P1010829_zps6ae2bcf2.jpg)
This is from about 80 yards out. The slope up to the green is a bit steeper than shown in the photo.
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Utrecht%20GC%20De%20Pan/P1010830_zpsdc1da6bb.jpg)
Here's a side view of the green. As Joe wrote, the small bit of fairway/apron looks a lot larger from the tee.
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Thanks to all for the photos and commentary. Very jealous.
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I played Swinkelsche with Mark Pearce and think his summary is quite good. I cannot remember ever spending more time discussing and trying to work out the best way to play a hole, and that included more than just the tee shots. After so many shots, I changed my mind about how to play the hole, and that was even after the successful plays. It's a really unique course and should grow into a very good one. Conditions were very good given the newness, and the shaping work was good. After so many shots, I changed my mind about how to play the hole, and that was even after the successful plays.
After the round, we were able to talk with Frank a bit about the course and his thoughts, but when I make it back to Holland I would really like to play the course with him and ask a whole lot more questions. Fascinating design.
I'm finding work to interfere too much with commenting on the other courses, but I'll hopefully get to it soon.
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Gorgeous looking golf courses, but did you really stay at the Bulgarian secret service hq for your hotel???
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1020167_zps2fc914e0.jpg)
That is one fugly building...
Jealous, though.
F.
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I love this photo. The one-handed-backwards-shot. Wonderful.
All the best
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1010391_zpsbc5c98b7.jpg)
Wouter plays a backhander at the 15th; it landed on the green!!
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Gorgeous looking golf courses, but did you really stay at the Bulgarian secret service hq for your hotel???
(http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/doceallaigh/Noordwijkse/P1020167_zps2fc914e0.jpg)
That is one fugly building...
Jealous, though.
F.
Martin,
It is indeed amazing how Holland and Belgium have been able to fully ruin the coastal villages with Stalinistic concrete ugliness like you see here.....
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Mark and John,
Thanks for the kind words.
I guess if you have 10 years to prepare for a course like De Swinkelsche like I had, you might have a tendency to start overanalysing and potentially overcooking each of the holes. You are right that even on the straightforward holes the greens and pin positions still provide a puzzle. On the other hand you have only played the course once, and I think it will become a lot clearer with repeated play....
But your points are taken; maybe my next course should have more of a "less is more" approach
PS you are always welkom to come and walk Swinkelsche with me and listen to me go on and on about all the ways you could play the course, thats the easy bit :)
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The hotel is actually quite old, meaning that it looked ultra-modern at the time it was conceived. But inside is a whole different story, the rooms, bar, restaurant etc. were all first rate.
Ulrich
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But your points are taken; maybe my next course should have more of a "less is more" approach
I hope I didn't suggest that. I really liked how the course required a lot of thought yet wasn't what I would call visually cluttered. That's really impressive given the landscape that you started out with. I especially liked the short 11th. I am almost certain that a driver off the tee is not the best play for me there, but I am also equally sure that I would probably hit driver every time. So many of the tee shots seem like they would continue to tempt even after experience might show otherwise.
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Frank,
Like John I really wouldn't want to see a change in approach. As you said over a drink that evening, it's easier to remove a bunker or more than to add one later and there are perhaps only three holes on the course that I might change and one of those I'm not sure about. It's great to be made to think so much on a course. The only other new course I have seen recently that came near to making me think so much was the Colt Course at Close House. Have you seen that on your trips to the North East? An entirely different challenge in that it was built on a steep valley bank rather than entirely flat land but some similarities in approach, I think.
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But your points are taken; maybe my next course should have more of a "less is more" approach
I hope I didn't suggest that. I really liked how the course required a lot of thought yet wasn't what I would call visually cluttered. That's really impressive given the landscape that you started out with. I especially liked the short 11th. I am almost certain that a driver off the tee is not the best play for me there, but I am also equally sure that I would probably hit driver every time. So many of the tee shots seem like they would continue to tempt even after experience might show otherwise.
Thanks for the comments. I had a lot of fun puzzling over the routing map. I was wondering if the shaping might have been as good as what I thought the routing might be. I'm happy to hear it's a real thinking player's course with good shaping too.
I'll be delighted to see it in person one day. Congrats to all involved.
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But your points are taken; maybe my next course should have more of a "less is more" approach
I hope I didn't suggest that. I really liked how the course required a lot of thought yet wasn't what I would call visually cluttered. That's really impressive given the landscape that you started out with. I especially liked the short 11th. I am almost certain that a driver off the tee is not the best play for me there, but I am also equally sure that I would probably hit driver every time. So many of the tee shots seem like they would continue to tempt even after experience might show otherwise.
Don't worry, I wasn't hinking about a major change in approach, maybe just being less concerned about giving each hole the perfect defence.
Glad to hear I built in enough temptation to get you wanting to do things you know you should not do :)
Temptation is the key element that makes strrategy fun.
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Frank,
Like John I really wouldn't want to see a change in approach. As you said over a drink that evening, it's easier to remove a bunker or more than to add one later and there are perhaps only three holes on the course that I might change and one of those I'm not sure about. It's great to be made to think so much on a course. The only other new course I have seen recently that came near to making me think so much was the Colt Course at Close House. Have you seen that on your trips to the North East? An entirely different challenge in that it was built on a steep valley bank rather than entirely flat land but some similarities in approach, I think.
I saw Close House last year and really liked the course. There are a number of super holes, which have great strategies and beautiful bunkering (1, 3, 4, 11, 12, 16, 17). Terrain was very difficult for golf which resulted in a few holes I liked less such as 8, 10 and 15. Overal a great accomplishment by Scott MacPherson.
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Great stuff guys and well done David D.
For those of us who couldn't be there, any talk/thoughts on BUDA 2104?
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Great stuff guys and well done David D.
For those of us who couldn't be there, any talk/thoughts on BUDA 2104?
I'm working on a May or June Scotland trip with son David. Is it time to return to the roots? Crail, Leven?
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Great stuff guys and well done David D.
For those of us who couldn't be there, any talk/thoughts on BUDA 2104?
Nothing like planning ahead, Rich.
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The previously discussed suggestion for Buda 2014 is something based around Carne in the west of Ireland. I know Ally McIntosh and Rob Hiseman are in the case.
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The previously discussed suggestion for Buda 2014 is something based around Carne in the west of Ireland. I know Ally McIntosh and Rob Hiseman are in the case.
There were a number of previously discussed proposals. No doubt many of the others (Kington, Ganton and others) will all get an airing over the next few weeks.
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What about Scotland west coast? Troon, Turnberry, Prestwick... just a right load of rubbish.
F.
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The previously discussed suggestion for Buda 2014 is something based around Carne in the west of Ireland. I know Ally McIntosh and Rob Hiseman are in the case.
Robin had suggested an itinerary along the lines of:
Meet at Mulranny 9 holer for Friday afternoon / evening - stay in Belmullet...
27 / 36 at Carne on Saturday - stay in Belmullet
18 / 36 at Enniscrone Sunday - stay in Enniscrone
Monday morning - head home / post-BUDA destinations (suggest Strandhill / Rosses Point / Narin & Portnoo / Cruit Island / Rosapenna / Portsalon / Ballyliffin etc....)
Can certainly help with this if desired... Cost will be good I'm sure
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Approximate dates? Summer again?
Ulrich
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Wish the photos and links in this thread could be repaired.
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Wish the photos and links in this thread could be repaired.
Michael,
I was also unable to view photos from Photobucket, but someone on this site suggested downloading the "Photobucket Hotlink Fix" for Chrome. I downloaded it using Chrome, and I can now view photos from Photobucket.
I think this is the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-hotlink-fix/kegnjbncdcliihbemealioapbifiaedg?hl=en (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-hotlink-fix/kegnjbncdcliihbemealioapbifiaedg?hl=en)
but I can't see where the link to download the fix is.
EDIT: I do have a plan to update all the links to my Photobucket photos and mover them somewhere else (e.g. Flikr.)