Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Thomas Dai on June 21, 2013, 03:47:47 PM
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Harry Vardon apparently won all of his various tournaments and matches plus his six Opens and his one US Open using only 7 clubs. Then again, when Lawson Little won his two British and two US Amateurs, plus his one US Open, he apparently had something like 25 or so clubs in his bag (poor caddy), which I'm led to believe is why the 14 club max rule was introduced.
Me? I almost always have 14, but occasional for a bit of fun or sometimes if travelling, I'll only go with 8 including the putter. Curiously enough, I often score better (or no worse) with fewer clubs in the bag (maybe I should always carry less!!).
How many clubs do you carry? Do you find you're scores are better, worse or no different with fewer clubs? Does the nature (architecture etc) of the course your playing effect how many clubs you carry?
All the best
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14...why anyone would disadvantage themselves by carrying less is beyond me.
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I use 14 unless I'm walking around/practicing using a sunday bag. Why create a disadvantage if you don't have to?
It would almost be as bad as using outdated equipment on purpose. ;)
Mark
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I use 14 unless I'm walking around/practicing using a sunday bag. Why create a disadvantage if you don't have to?
It would almost be as bad as using outdated equipment on purpose. ;)
Mark
Why do you want to turn golf into a boring exercise of lasering the pin, picking the club by that number obtained, and hitting the dialed in distance? Why do you even belong to this website if that is your priority? Any old course and the latest technology would do.
;)
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14 during the golf season, but in the winter when I'm frequently bundled up I'll take out the even or odd numbered irons to make the walk a bit easier. And I've come to the conclusion that playing with many fewer irons really does not hurt my game and I bet the same would be true for just about everyone that isn't a real good player.
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Joe, most times when I play with that half set, my score isnt much different at all...
Mark
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13, really don't feel I am missing anything with my 11 handicap....RHE
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I use 14 unless I'm walking around/practicing using a sunday bag. Why create a disadvantage if you don't have to?
It would almost be as bad as using outdated equipment on purpose. ;)
Mark
Why do you want to turn golf into a boring exercise of lasering the pin, picking the club by that number obtained, and hitting the dialed in distance? Why do you even belong to this website if that is your priority? Any old course and the latest technology would do.
;)
Some people play golf to shoot as low as they can, some play golf to be outside and enjoy the walk and the scenery, some try to do both. Regardless of what group one fits in, telling someone that they don't belong on this site because they play with the maximum allotted clubs and don't understand why anyone wouldn't seems to me to be obtuse and maybe you might not be the right type of person to be on a site that seems to have an array of opinions, on this great game, which in my opinion makes the site so great.
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David, there is a bit of sarcasm in GJ's post. No worries man! :)
Mark
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I drop down to 7 or 8 clubs if walking/ carrying. I have more fun making the shots work without yardage or every club available. Nothing like hitting driver on par 3's, as Neil Regan will attest!
Joe
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I also enjoy the challenge I playing with fewer clubs. I played with 8 clubs during the Hundred Hole Hike this past Monday and I honestly don't believe my score would have been any different playing with 14.
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Like Bill, I carried 8 during my HHH on Monday and I scored as well or better than normal at Flossmoor. That said, I'll likely stick to the normal 14 clubs, but will definitely have a different mind set on hitting 3/4 shots going forward. I may not use them, but I don't see the need in laying down all my weapons.
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I've been playing with six clubs the last month trying to gear up for my Hundred Hole Hike. I might be smarter to go down to one or two, considering the time it takes to pick up my little Mackenzie walking bag after every shot.
Yesterday at Crystal Downs I frequently found myself trying to hit my pitching wedge 130 or 140 yards and coming up short, as opposed to trying to gear down on a 7-iron. I think I would be fine carrying just the odd irons or evens for U.S. parkland golf. For a links course, though, I think six clubs ought to be plenty, and I suspect that's one reason Vardon could use so few.
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I've been playing with six clubs the last month trying to gear up for my Hundred Hole Hike. I might be smarter to go down to one or two, considering the time it takes to pick up my little Mackenzie walking bag after every shot.
Yesterday at Crystal Downs I frequently found myself trying to hit my pitching wedge 130 or 140 yards and coming up short, as opposed to trying to gear down on a 7-iron. I think I would be fine carrying just the odd irons or evens for U.S. parkland golf. For a links course, though, I think six clubs ought to be plenty, and I suspect that's one reason Vardon could use so few.
re: HHH - a great piece of advice I got was to never, ever hit a full iron shot during the day. I followed it fairly well and (I believe) saved a ton of energy over those who had their full bag. I now have a chippy little 9 iron shot that goes about 95 yards that I'm killer with! Driver, 5, 7, 9, SW & putter was a perfect bag.
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I'm about 10 years in of playing with 9.
I carry them in a quiver bag and play 36 holes whenever I get the chance.
I don't miss the extra weight...
I have played with three a dozen times in the last five years.
I don't miss the extra weight...
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I love golf clubs as much as I love golf courses and golf course architecture.
I always carry 14, and usually have a couple of more in the trunk. If I the Rules allowed me carry 20, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
(BTW, I don't down a single club that is still in production; the newest is 4 years old. I just like golf equipment. So sue me...)
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Pat
14...why anyone would disadvantage themselves by carrying less is beyond me.
Mark
I use 14 unless I'm walking around/practicing using a sunday bag. Why create a disadvantage if you don't have to?
I don't buy into the concept that more clubs allows you to play better, especially average amateur golfers.
I often watch mid and high-handicap golfers umming and ahhing over whether they should hit 3 hybrid or 4 hybrid from 200 metres, or tossing up a recovery shot between their three or four wedges... They'd be better off getting to know a few clubs intimately and learning how to play with them. Even if that improvement isn't possible, carrying three hybrids or three or four wedges does nothing to benefit them.
I went on my most recent trip to the US carrying 12 clubs. Playing 36 a day, I often left the 5i, 7i and 9i out of the bag for the afternoon round (leaving nine in the bag) and there was no difference in my scores - always 76-81 and a lot of the better scores were with fewer clubs.
As it is now, I carry 11 clubs (dr, 3i, 5i-PW, GW, SW, putter) and there aren't any holes there that require filling with another club.
It gives me carry clubs of 180m (3i), 165m (5i), 150m (6i) then every 10m down to 100m (GW).
It gives me plenty of chipping and pitching options.
The 3i carries 180m and runs out to about 200m and if I am in a position where that isn't an option for going at the green (or hole location), then I really have no business going for that shot.
If driver isn't the play off the tee, then I am obviously looking to prioritise accuracy over length - so 3i is exactly what I want. If you ask me (which no one did!), the modern driver is easier to hit than a fairway wood anyway so why carry one?
Cutting from 13 clubs to between 9 and 11 also coincided with me cutting my handicap from 8 to a low of 4 (currently 5). Also had some lessons in that window, but the reduction of clubs simplified my decision-making and definitely made a difference.
Anyway, to each their own, I just think that a lot of golfers make the game more difficult than it needs to be by viewing 14 clubs as a goal rather than a limit!
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I've played with anywhere from 1 to 16 clubs in the bag. Normally I have 14. I hit it so short than 14 clubs basically gives me a club for every 10 yards, more or less which means almost any time I want to I can just swing away with a normal swing and the normal-swing distance will be within spitting distance of the target. That seems like a bonus, not sure why I'd want to give it up by pulling about half a dozen clubs and having to make up in-between swings.
And the difference in my 19-pound bag with a full set versus, what, maybe 13-14 pounds if I left out six clubs doesn't seem to matter a whole lot. Lifting 19 pounds versus 13 pounds feels pretty similar to me.
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David, there is a bit of sarcasm in GJ's post. No worries man! :)
Mark
I didn't read it that way, it seemed to me that he stated an obtuse opinion then tried to make it all OK with a smiley face at the end.
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David, there is a bit of sarcasm in GJ's post. No worries man! :)
Mark
I didn't read it that way, it seemed to me that he stated an obtuse opinion then tried to make it all OK with a smiley face at the end.
Mercy me. Haven't you heard of Melvyn? ;)
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I need my 14 clubs.
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14- Driver, 3i-9i, 4h, 52deg, 58deg, SW, Jigger, Putter.
The last two are hickories. I've given up on fairway woods. Like Hutto, the irons fit predictable 10y distances 190-130. The hybrid is about as long as the 3i but handles rough better, from where I often hit. SW is and old bouncy club, while the other two are modern and I can hit fairly well on partial swings. The jigger is just fun to hit: a 3/4 swing punches a low ball 120 with lots of run. And after playing with my Wilson blade hickory putter for a while, I came to like it more than my polymer insert Odyssey putter.
If I had better hickories I think I would put more in my bag. The reality is there isn't a common decent option for sand play with period clubs, and the 2 wood hickory I have is effectively a fairway which I stink with.
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I usually carry 12 or 13, I'm not good enough that it will make a difference.
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I have been given a lot of thought to carrying only 11.
driver, 19 degree fairway metal, 24 deg hybrid, 6-7-8-9-pw (6 iron is 29 deg & pw is 45 deg) , 52 & 58 deg wedges, putter
... the next time I go to Bandon, this is what I should carry
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9. You can cover all of your yardages with nine. If you are playing the right course (like old Mac where you can hit driver off every tee), getting down to 7 is a lot easier. Also, it depends if you walk or ride. I walk all of my rounds and love only carrying nine. It makes the walk that much more enjoyable. My buddy thinks I am an idiot for not carriying all of my clubs, but he rides in a cart and could care less what his bag weighs. Tom makes a great point with parkland and links golf. It would be much easier to ditch more clubs on the links because you probably aren't going to have any forced carries. The shot I fear most with the half set is the shot that is downwind, over water, with an in between yardage. Bust a shot and hope you make it or saw one off with no spin, downwind, and watch your ball roll over the green. Taking 15 yards off a 3 iron over water would be brutal. But the pros far outweigh the cons. Lastly, it depends it you are playing tournament golf. I would probably carry all of my clubs if I was playing for something serious. Playing a pot game on Saturday morning isn't serious enough, so I will stick to a few less clubs.
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Driver, 3w, 3, 5, 7, 9, 50, 58, putter. I have been giving a lot of thought to ditching the 3w and getting a 56 instead of the 50 and 58....that's 7.
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Last time I played with Nuzzo he had like 5 in the bag.
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Carry 14 clubs but generally use only ten more than once in the round at my home course.
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12
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A full 14 during my first round of the day. Usually drop to 8 or 9 for the second round.
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I drop down to 7 or 8 clubs if walking/ carrying. I have more fun making the shots work without yardage or every club available. Nothing like hitting driver on par 3's, as Neil Regan will attest!
Joe
Joe, I completely agree. I will often carry 7 because it is fun to create shots (and easier to walk).
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Depends on the course I am playing. Last three years it was mainly 8 clubs. My current course calls for a wider variety of shots, so I am now carrying 12. I have more fun when I am "creating" shots. May review again and possibly take the six iron out. The 25 degree hybrid can go down to cover that distance. That would mean the 7 iron would be my longest iron. D,3w,7w,25degree,7,8,9,P,52,56,P. No huge gaps and plenty of scoring clubs. Cannot imagine another club that would lower my scores. Just have to up my skill level with short game practice.
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14...why anyone would disadvantage themselves by carrying less is beyond me.
Agreed
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I generally carry 14. Lately, however, I have carried only 9. I am recuperating from an injury and still want to walk and carry. The way I putt, though, I should leave the putter in the car.
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12 clubs: Driver, 3-Wood, 2-Hybrid, 4-PW, 56 degree, and the flatstick. I use one wedge around the greens. If there is a gap in yardage, I hit a "cut."
It always bothers me that mid-to-high handicappers think they need 14 clubs. If you are a 15 index, how many of those clubs do you feel comfortable with? For how many of the clubs do you know your yardage? Honestly? How many of those clubs do you straight up fear? For me, the answer to the last question is usually about 2 or 3, so what is it for a high-capper?
I'm not going to go so far as to say the 14-club standard is a myth drummed up by the equipment companies to sell their product, but that's what I'm saying.
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14...why anyone would disadvantage themselves by carrying less is beyond me.
Agreed
1) Cost
2) Simplifying
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14...why anyone would disadvantage themselves by carrying less is beyond me.
Agreed
Pat,
Since the start of this year I have been carrying 10 clubs, after several years of no more than 12 clubs. My handicap has reduced to its lowest ever (scratch), and I'm finding that by having fewer choices is in no way a disadvantage. I have a set up that covers all distances, and I have great confidence in the clubs that I carry. I find I am hitting better quality golf shots, with fewer bad shots, because I understand exactly what the clubs I have can do, and I play within those limitations. I have eliminated the clubs which in the past have led to unforced errors and big scores (longer irons, lob wedge). And finally, I am enjoying the game more by playing more interesting golf and a wider variety of shots. My setup is:
Driver
3 or 5 wood
24* hybrid
6-pw (sometimes the 5 iron replaces the 6)
56*
putter.
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Standard is 12....
Might reduce for second round of the day...
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Usually carry 13.
Woods (3): Driver, 3W, 5W
Irons (9): 3i-PW, 56 degree SW
and Putter.
I could probably drop the 5W and get by with 12 clubs.
I didn't play golf much for about 15 years and a lot had changed when I restarted a few years back. I foolishly bought a 60 degree wedge that I have no use for.
I think most players would benefit a lot from playing with less clubs. I love playing the 4 club competition we have as our end of season finale. You are forced to come up with different shots, and that can only make you a better player.
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13. Couldn't hit my 3 wood for !&@$. So went to 4w and hybrid setup. I do carry 4 wedges though. In the odd instance that I'm actually shouldering the bag, like this weekend, it's no more than 6-8 clubs with which I can easily shoot just as poorly as I can with 14.
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It always bothers me that mid-to-high handicappers think they need 14 clubs. If you are a 15 index, how many of those clubs do you feel comfortable with? For how many of the clubs do you know your yardage? Honestly? How many of those clubs do you straight up fear? For me, the answer to the last question is usually about 2 or 3, so what is it for a high-capper?
If I can hit my 6-iron and I can hit my 8-iron, why would I have trouble with the 7-iron? I would not have a club in my bag that I "fear" but my 4-iron is pretty much limited to hitting the ball off a tee or punching under tree limbs, etc. Because of the low loft it is not a good club to use for tight lies and such. And obviously I'm not going to hit my 3-wood off a downslope in 4" of rough!
But generally speaking my odds of hitting a good shot are about the same with most clubs. Wedges and short irons are more accurate than mid-irons and fairway woods. But that's true for everyone regardless of handicap. I really don't know why you imagine that a 15-handicapper tossing half a dozen clubs out of the bag should make the game somehow easier. This idea bandied around here of double-digit handicappers being totally flummoxed by the confusion of having 14 clubs to choose from is frankly idiotic.
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If you are a 15 index, how many of those clubs do you feel comfortable with?
This might be particularly true of people with limited practice time who carry 3 or 4 wedges. I often wonder if mastering one wedge would be better than trying to use three or four of them.
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Ross,
My teaching-pro buddy's advice for wedges is that there's two basic approaches. If you're going to put in the time for regular practice and learn how to slide it/trap it/cut it/hood it/chip it/flop it/who knows what all then you probably ought to stick to one or two wedges. But that takes practice on an ongoing basis that a lot of weekend golfers are not going to put in.
The other approach is to get three or four wedges and just play the same couple of stock shots with them, using the different lofts to enable different distances rather than playing 6, 8, 10 different types of shots. That's what I do because I seldom practice. I can hit a iron-like full swing shot with any of my wedges. Or I can choke down, play it back in my stance to hit it a little shorter than full-swing distance. Or I can play a nearly square faced basic chip-and-run type shot with any of the wedges.
If I only had one wedge, let's say my "S" wedge, then I'd basically be able to hit an iron-like 85-yard shot, take a little off and hit that shot 60-70-80 yard or play a certain range of chip shots. For longer or shorter or different conditions than that I'd be kind of stuck. So I also have one higher and two lower lofted wedges. I'd love to be able to play the creative short-game shots that some good players of my acquaintance have in their arsenal. I just don't have the practice time under my belt to learn or maintain that kind of short game. I'd rather be out playing golf.
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JNC,
I don't buy the manufacturers conspiracy theory, but 14 is an arbitrary number (yes, I know it is the rule, but the powers could have said 10 or 20).
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I find 7 or 8 do the trick just as well as 14, score is still respectable. The decision process is much easier as I no longer tote the laser,consult a book, nor shoulder a bag rivaling the size of a small sofa.
I enjoy packing the fewer the better around the bridge after a days work.
The loop is much more walker friendly after the wonderful revamping of the ascent to the tees which used to resemble an assault on K2
I would advise many to lose the extras, reacquaint yourself with the way we learned the game as children..........eye the target,estimate the club required to get it home, and match the shot to the distance needed.
Reducing the number of clubs has returned the experience of playing shots and not just computing/matching yardages.
Less is more.
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I carried 14 until last Wednesday , played in a senior event in Hershey with my club pro. He took my 4 iron away and will not give it back.
So 13 until I figure out what to add.
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I've been playing with six clubs the last month trying to gear up for my Hundred Hole Hike. I might be smarter to go down to one or two, considering the time it takes to pick up my little Mackenzie walking bag after every shot.
Yesterday at Crystal Downs I frequently found myself trying to hit my pitching wedge 130 or 140 yards and coming up short, as opposed to trying to gear down on a 7-iron. I think I would be fine carrying just the odd irons or evens for U.S. parkland golf. For a links course, though, I think six clubs ought to be plenty, and I suspect that's one reason Vardon could use so few.
re: HHH - a great piece of advice I got was to never, ever hit a full iron shot during the day. I followed it fairly well and (I believe) saved a ton of energy over those who had their full bag. I now have a chippy little 9 iron shot that goes about 95 yards that I'm killer with! Driver, 5, 7, 9, SW & putter was a perfect bag.
Hey Clint, sounds like a junior set!
I typically have 12 or 13 clubs when I am walking and carrying. I think I can play my club in Colorado with 10 clubs...and I am gong to try it tomorrow. Driver, 5 wood, 5-PW, 56 and a putter.
BTW, Lawson Little actually had 31 clubs in his bag, which prompted the 14-club rule. I read that story 20 years ago
Vog
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13. One of the clubs is a beat-up rock club. Vital for desert golf.
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Today- First round- tournament round: 13 clubs
Second round: 7 clubs: D, 4W, 6, 8, P, 60 degree, putter
Emergency 9: 1 club: 6 iron
TomD: if you were going to play TOC with 1 club, which club would you choose?
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Gentlemen,
I have to play a number of rounds in the UK over July, August and Seeptember. I want to carry the bag at every opportunity so have been cogitating over the last couple of months about the selection of clubs to minimise the burden.
I am tending towards a 3-wood, 19* hybrid, 22*hybrid, 6-, 7-, 8-irons, a pitching wedge, sand-wedge and putter. This seems to fit in reasonably well with the consensus here so I'll be very interested to see how it goes. I won't be playing of tiger tees and am looking at most of the games being in The Highlands, relatively short courses.
Cheers Colin
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Colin,
Your choice looks good to me. I have a friend who is about a 2 hdcp at TOC and has carried only 9 clubs for years. My last couple of times at RDGC I brought 8 clubs. Had a driver but, a running three wood certainly would have provided adequate distance.
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I play with what is allowed, what has recently been manufactured and that which improves my game. And without a stone in my Trues.
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Those of you that always carry 14 clubs should take a chance and take 8-10 for a casual round. I promise you that you'll be pleasantly surprised with some of the shots you pull off.
Sometimes less is more.
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I've played with anywhere from 1 to 15 or 16 clubs. I find the game is the most fun when I have my usual 14.
For fun and a change of pace I play my set of 1951 MacGregor "Jimmy Demaret" irons and persimmon woods. But there's 14 clubs in that set as well! 8)
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The other approach is to get three or four wedges and just play the same couple of stock shots with them, using the different lofts to enable different distances rather than playing 6, 8, 10 different types of shots.
Sounds like the peltz system where you use 3 swing lengths (10.30, 9.00 and 7.30 o'clock) and four wedges (which gives you 12 yardages) to fill the yardages up to ≈100 yards. Using the same set up and technique for each swing.
When I said use only one wedge which you have mastered I meant for chipping around the green. But I understand what you are saying about the difficulty of using one club in different ways from further out if you lack the time to master different swings.
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I play with what is allowed, what has recently been manufactured and that which improves my game. And without a stone in my Trues.
I got a good chuckle out of that.
I've been experimenting a bit with numbers (and kinds) of clubs, and looked up this thread.
Besides what others have mentioned (e.g. ease of carrying) I find that having less clubs also improves not so much my shot-making as my choices.
I have to leave it to very good golfers like Joe H to "invent shots"; for me, the benefit comes in being forced, finally and unequivocally, to choose enough club
With 14 clubs in my bag, if I think I can get a 7 iron there but a fearful voice whispers that I should use a 6, I almost always still hit the 7 -- if for no other reason than a desire not to listen to the fears.
But with only 8 clubs, and with the 7 not there, I have to choose the 6. And that's the better choice -- especially because now it is not based on fear/doubts/insecurity but on logic.
With fall golf I now play persimmon exclusively, so last time out I carried Driver, 5 wood, 4-6-8-PW, SW and putter.
Btw, with the slightly colder weather in general and with persimmon in particular, I have found after a lot of trial & error/testing that the best value ball for me is the Callaway SuperSoft.
Btw (2), while wholly unscientific and based solely on my own experience (as an average golfer), I am now completely convinced of this: yes, in part it's the ball....but even more so it's the (length of) shaft.
A 43 inch steel-shafted persimmon driver, struck well, will send a ball exactly the same distance as a well struck modern titanium hot-faced monster club with the latest graphite shaft...IF that shaft is also 43 inches, i.e. in other words, as far as a modern 3 wood. Similarly, a persimmon steel-shafted 5 wood travels just as far as a modern graphite-shafted 2 hybrid (even though several of the 2 hybrids I've tried have even longer shafts).
Btw (3) - the advantage of using persimmons, besides how lovely they look and the sound they make, is this: that you can stay out of trouble. I'm not a long hitter, so 240 is about the best I can hope for with my driver and a little over 200 with my 5 wood. And you know what? If you play a course at 6500-6600 yards, that 240 yards will most often keep you short of the major (if often banal and even unnecessary) 'trouble', i.e fairway bunkers.
Yes, you have to strike the persimmon very well, and if you don't there is more of a price to play than with titanium -- but it only takes a few long Par 4s before one accepts and gets comfortable with and even enjoys coming into the greens with a 5 wood...which for me has become one of the easiest clubs in my bag to hit well.
(I always think of Corey Pavin's 4 wood on his way to winning the US Open -- it was a great shot given the circumstances, but it actually wasn't that hard a shot!)
Peter
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For some time I was playing with 10 sticks, then went down to 8. On my recent US trip I found that I couldn't reach some uphill 4s without the extra roll I have grown used to in the UK. So I went back to 9 clubs for my recent game at Moortown.... a course with a fair number of longish 4s and a few reachable 5s.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/MOORTOWN%20GC/15%20Moortown_zpshgs85ydw.jpeg) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/MOORTOWN%20GC/15%20Moortown_zpshgs85ydw.jpeg)
Not carrying a 5 iron has meant that I need to be more positive with the 6 iron and indeed, I have hit some of my best iron shots this year with the 6.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/MOORTOWN%20GC/8%20Moortown%202_zps3ctws9yy.jpeg) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/MOORTOWN%20GC/8%20Moortown%202_zps3ctws9yy.jpeg)
Although, I am still prone to finding trouble when I try to push recovery shots too hard!
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/MOORTOWN%20GC/1%20Moortown_zps6a7neiss.jpeg) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/MOORTOWN%20GC/1%20Moortown_zps6a7neiss.jpeg)
I will currently stick with 9 and see what gives: putter, sand wedge, wedge, 9, 8, 6, 7 wood, 2 hybrid, driver.
Ciao
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8) Peter,
WHAT'S ALL THE FUSS ABOUT??
Its not fear, its instinct, feel the force (...Luke) of gravity and just play... hit ball, see ball go, find it, repeat as necessary to hole it... If you've sort of mastered a subset of 14, you should be able to master 14 to your advantage, eh?. Feel free to carry less, and by the way, when you carry your small set... how many golf balls do you carry? Same or less?
ITS NOT A BADGE OF HONOR AS SOME WOULD IMPLY!
I've carried my Even Stephen set 2w, 7w, 4i, 6i, 8i, 10, P during summers in Houston and when playing out at Ballyneal, Bandon, & Chambers Bay, carrying small STRICTLY for weight or lack thereof reasons, (1 ball in play, 3 in stash) yes decision making is simplified, but rode with 14 all over Wild Horse and at Dismal, and recently pushed 14 at The Loop... even on those special excursions, does it really matter when seeing some new gca?
I'm just advising being practical, no need to over-think it, but I know your mind may not allow, to just play on.
See you down the path someday
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Steve - good post...but see, I like all the fuss! :)
I like finding old persimmon clubs in second hand shops and discovering they still have the original grips, and in good condition, and then having the fun of comparing them out on the course against other clubs and other grips
I enjoy staring at and holding in my hands some beautiful wood driver from the 70s or 80s, and admiring the craftsmanship and the curves of an old blade iron (the set I played with last, Walter Hagen Haig Ultras with the contoured sole are the most lovely of all)
I like tinkering with how many clubs to carry, and thinking about why 8 might be better than 12 or 14, and trying to figure out ways to use equipment smartly to shoot my lowest score ever
I enjoy the fuss around trying to get the ball in the hole in less strokes than I did the round before, since as much as I value the beauty of a natural looking course and the talent of a wonderful golf course architect and the company of a good friend, the only thing that for me gives the game of golf any meaning is trying to get the ball in the hole in the fewest possible strokes
Oh, and with 8 clubs I still carry 6-9 golf balls...
Hope to see you on the path one day too, and glad you got to play The Loop
Peter
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It depends entirely on whether I fancy carrying or not.
With my cart bag and Motocaddy, I will take the full complement of 14 clubs. If I choose to carry my stand bag however, I want to reduce weight and so will usually take out the even numbered irons, a wedge or two, and my driver. I have a 15 degree 3-wood which goes virtually as far as my driver and which is also deadly off the deck.
As a 12 handicapper, I usually shoot in the 80s. The difference between an 82 and an 86 however, is far more likely to be determined by how often I go OOB off the tee, duff a chip, or 3 putt rather than not having the right club in my bag to hit an approach shot exactly 164 yards!
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Hello,
"I often watch mid and high-handicap golfers umming and ahhing over whether they should hit 3 hybrid or 4 hybrid from 200 metres, or tossing up a recovery shot between their three or four wedges... They'd be better off getting to know a few clubs intimately and learning how to play with them. Even if that improvement isn't possible, carrying three hybrids or three or four wedges does nothing to benefit them.[/size][size=78%] "[/size]
Watch out my friend, for if you speak truths like this, the next PGA show in Orlando will vote to put a contract out on your ass.
I'm sorry to forget who said this but this statement is like the sublime Rosetta Stone of the professional golf industry(ies)...from the pro shop to the course plantings...from the pyramid stacked balls to the retaining walls...golf (and life) is filled with this ill...unnecessary shit peddled as some elixir improvement.
In the matter of clubs (equip aficionados aside) it so painfully clear that we can and should be able to prosper with fewer...but the daisy chain of manufacturer to wholesale to markup makes the distinction of a 3 Hybrid, and 4 Hybrid very, very important to too many people.
When I played more regularly at 9-hole Sunset Hill, I carried 8 clubs. Most other rounds I would take the full allotment of 14, but I wish i could take more, because I like to use and test different drivers and hit fairway woods just to see what they do. Now that I've only played 4 times in the last 2 seasons, the experimental spirit is full in me, as each round is precious and I want to see what stuff does.
cheers
vk
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8) Peter,
I concur with Duncan's note,... imagine an uphill 1 shotter, trouble left obvious, trouble right only known by local knowledge... one bad swing or bad recovery and there's potential pain to pay
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/TXSeve/IMG_0356_zps9mo1rd1g.jpg)
Sorry to make you remember that hole Duncan! But fair is fair, I remember this one was my Waterloo, with two in the water on the widest one-shotter at RV!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/TXSeve/IMG_0348_zpssboqxtwf.jpg)
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Steve,
Two great examples of how easy it is to go OOB off the tee at Reddish Vale.
I could give you 15 more!
;D
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8) Duncan,
Yes, but on 4, I remember two balls on the green, danger left and right avoided!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/TXSeve/IMG_0345_zpsielbkn34.jpg)
How many clubs were in that set you provided me?
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I seem to remember that we forgot to include a putter!
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This thread has just revealed my own [faux] golf brilliance I'm going to reduce my usual 14 club set to something significantly less (7? 8?) and add a couple hicks. I can vary the selection round to round as logic and whimsy dictate. Let my brilliant imagination, and my imagined brilliance, dictate the play. But I think I'm on to something! I'll try it out on San Clemente tomorrow. Cheers.
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Life in an old thread!
Since starting this thread 3 yrs ago I've downsized to now carrying only 8/9-clubs in a small/lightweight bag (no stand). I only carry 4-5 golf balls plus tees and the odd coin. No brolly and only occasionally a rain jacket/sweater/hat in the side pocket. And when I play with my hickories I only carry 7 clubs.
Having access to shorter walking routes over and around greens and tees has been a blessing. Occasionally if it's very hot or very hilly or I'm pretty knackered I'll sling my small bag on the back of a buggy but this is last resort.
I hardly ever feel I miss out on not having more clubs with me but then again as a fairly short hitter the gaps between my full shots are less than the usually assumed 10 yds so I can understand longer hitters maybe wanting access to more clubs as their gapping yardages will be wider.
atb
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I actually played champions q school with 12 two years ago, and 13 last year.
I had gaps that I was ok with, so wasn't going to force a club
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Here I am using 14 clubs all these years like a sucker.
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13: driver, 3 wood, 3 hybrid, 4 to pitching wedge, 52 and 56 and putter. Have considered adding a driving iron or 60.
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I always get a chuckle when a caddie has a look in my bag for the first time.
Right now it includes driver, 4w, 5i, 7i, 8i, 9i, pw, and putter. I was down to seven clubs, but put the 8i back in the bag to deal with distance control on American courses. I would probably do better with one more iron for longer shots, but I carry my own bag most of the time, and 8 clubs is plenty.
It does make a huge difference what sort of courses you play. At St. Andrews for the 100-hole hike, 6 clubs was plenty, because the greens are open in front and you don't have to worry about carry distances ... you can play the easy 5-iron, or play the 7 and hope it runs on. Few American courses give you that luxury.
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No need for badges of honor.
My favorite golf story this year is from Midland Hills, where I made par on the par 5 17th using only my driver...including the putts. It opens the door to architectural discussion and its relationship to fun.
I carry a driver(a Titleist 975J that I can hit off the deck), 4,6,8,W, SW and putter. It allows me to hit poor but fun shots on purpose.
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A course I was formerly a member of had a 5 club competition.
Except it was a team comp and you had to use the clubs in strict rotation. So you might hole out on one hole with a sand iron and the next player then had to tee off on the next with a putter, or play a shot with a putter into a bunker and the next player have to play out with driver[size=78%]. [/size]
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I drop down to 7 or 8 clubs if walking/ carrying. I have more fun making the shots work without yardage or every club available. Nothing like hitting driver on par 3's, as Neil Regan will attest!
Joe
There should be a staute of limitations on talking about specific golf shots. :)
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I drop down to 7 or 8 clubs if walking/ carrying. I have more fun making the shots work without yardage or every club available. Nothing like hitting driver on par 3's, as Neil Regan will attest!
Joe
There should be a staute of limitations on talking about specific golf shots. :)
Thank you.
Joe is either the most boastful humble man I've ever met, or the most humble boastful one...
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I drop down to 7 or 8 clubs if walking/ carrying. I have more fun making the shots work without yardage or every club available. Nothing like hitting driver on par 3's, as Neil Regan will attest!
Joe
There should be a staute of limitations on talking about specific golf shots. :)
Thank you.
Joe is either the most boastful humble man I've ever met, or the most humble boastful one...
In true fashion, I consider myself both...
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:)
Very nicely done.
Though I hope you recognize that we teed it up for you...it was a stock 7 iron to pin cut middle right
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I used to play in some Amateur tournaments and always carried 14 clubs or more and would even switch between a 3 wood and low lofted hybrid and a 2 iron or hybrid depending on Course conditions. I even carried 4 wedges. Now, living overseas and doing a lot of traveling with golf clubs and trying to walk whenever I play I have become obsessed with carrying a minimal amount of clubs and stuff with a very small bag.
I tried the every other iron and two wedges but I really thought my distance control suffered and I was losing strokes because of it. I finally figured out the perfect set for me.
The New Ben Hogan started making every loft and they build clubs completely to order. I worked out a set with them that is the perfect mix of less clubs and the gaps are not crazy. All my irons have 6 degree gaps and 3/4 inch differences in length. I carry a Driver, 16.5 degree 4 wood, then my hogans at 20, 26, 32, 38, 44, 50, and a 58 degree wedge. With my faithful putter that leaves me with 10 clubs and almost perfect 20 yard gaps between every club.
I feel like I finally have a set that is the perfect compromise being light and simple without costing me strokes. Come to the Kings Putter at Bandon in the spring and check them out. I even have them in a Mackenzie Walker with the NGLA logo. Now if I can just figure out how to play NGLA so I don't feel like a poser for having the bag.
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As an older golfer who wants to continue to walk the course and recognizes the loss of distance, four things have come to mind which I will have in my next set:
1. the single length set of irons
2. loft of 5 or 6 degrees between irons
3. 10 or 11 clubs in the bag
4. i do not hit lower lofted fairways off the deck very well
thus:
putter
13 deg driver
20 deg fairway
25 deg hybrid
30 deg hybrid
35 deg iron
40 deg iron
46 deg iron
52 deg iron
58 deg iron
64 deg iron .... optional use on severe courses like Ballyhack or Tobacco Road
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As an older golfer who wants to continue to walk the course and recognizes the loss of distance, four things have come to mind which I will have in my next set:
1. the single length set of irons
2. loft of 5 or 6 degrees between irons
3. 10 or 11 clubs in the bag
4. i do not hit lower lofted fairways off the deck very well
thus:
putter
13 deg driver
20 deg fairway
25 deg hybrid
30 deg hybrid
35 deg iron
40 deg iron
46 deg iron
52 deg iron
58 deg iron
64 deg iron .... optional use on severe courses like Ballyhack or Tobacco Road
This looks like a great set to me. I also hate low lofted fairway woods and I am a 5 handicap. When I was a +2 I carried a 15 degree hybrid and didn't even look at a 3 wood. My 16.5 degree 4 wood is amazing though. So straight and I don't feel like I give up distance. I think most golfers would do better if they ditched the 3 wood. Bubba is one of the fastest swingers on tour and only carries a 4 wood. I also like your 64 degree wedge idea. The only thing I sometimes miss is my super high lofted wedge I used to carry. I may have to keep the 6 degree lofts and go 50,56,62.
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It seems the Ben Hogan clubs would allow a set like 56, 51, 45, 38, 30, 21 hybrid, 4 wood, driver.
But, then Hogan don't make left handed. :(
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It seems the Ben Hogan clubs would allow a set like 56, 51, 45, 38, 30, 21 hybrid, 4 wood, driver.
But, then Hogan don't make left handed. :(
You could always relearn righty!
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I heard recently that Alister MacKenzie towards the end of his life advocated a change in the rules such that no more than 6 clubs could be used in a round. Any confirmation or comment on this?
Atb
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For recreational golf I'm currently playing an up-and-down Downs course at Freshwater Bay on the Isle of Wight from the yellows and carry:-
Driver (for distance),
3i for long f'way shots between 180 and 150yds
6i for everything under 150 yds,
pitching wedge for pitching and bunkers,
putter for putting.
All carried in a light bag with 6 balls.
Why? So I can get around the course in 2.5hrs and test my three quarter and half shot abilities and spare my aging legs
Sometimes I'll replace the driver with a 3-wood if the course is tight
Sometimes replace the 6i with a 5i and 7i.
If there are revetted bunkers on the course then I'll include a sand wedge.
So between 5 and 7 clubs
If there's long rough and many gorse bushes then I'll increase my ball reserve to 12 !!!
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Usually 10 - driver, 3-5-7-8-9 irons, PW, SW, putter. Gaps on the upper end don't matter much.
I've never understood the notion that high handicappers are better served with fairway woods than lower irons. I can't hit a fairway wood to save my life, while some of my fondest shots have been 2-5 irons. If I really cared about score, I wouldn't even bring my driver, either. Guess I'm weird like that.
Occasionally I'll play a scramble and throw in a few other clubs that I wouldn't normally hit if playing my own ball, but that's about the only way I'll get to 14.
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The winner will be whomever plays the fewest, yet oldest, number of clubs.
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It's like "Name That Tune."
"I can shoot 90 with 10 clubs."
"I can shoot 90 with 8 clubs."
"I can shoot 90 with 6 clubs."
"Sir, play that course."
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Usually 10 - driver, 3-5-7-8-9 irons, PW, SW, putter. Gaps on the upper end don't matter much.
I've never understood the notion that high handicappers are better served with fairway woods than lower irons. I can't hit a fairway wood to save my life, while some of my fondest shots have been 2-5 irons. If I really cared about score, I wouldn't even bring my driver, either. Guess I'm weird like that.
Occasionally I'll play a scramble and throw in a few other clubs that I wouldn't normally hit if playing my own ball, but that's about the only way I'll get to 14.
GP, THAT SET ([driver, 3-5-7-8-9 irons, PW, SW, putter.) IS 9 CLUBS... IS THAT WHAT YOU TOOK TO OR TOOK AWAY FROM THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT TOUR A LONG TIME AGO?
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Here's a WITB video with Miguel Angel Jimenez.
What's interesting is that he's suggesting that the pro's should be playing with 10 clubs -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH_Lx-wvnwM
atb
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I usually carry 13 but drop down to 9 for Winter golf. 5,7,9,W,SW,Driver,4 wood,24 degree hybrid and putter. It seemingly has little effect on my score and trying to hit different type iron shots is a lot of fun.
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14 ultra-modern clubs sit dormant in a closet.
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Usually 10 - driver, 3-5-7-8-9 irons, PW, SW, putter. Gaps on the upper end don't matter much.
I've never understood the notion that high handicappers are better served with fairway woods than lower irons. I can't hit a fairway wood to save my life, while some of my fondest shots have been 2-5 irons. If I really cared about score, I wouldn't even bring my driver, either. Guess I'm weird like that.
Occasionally I'll play a scramble and throw in a few other clubs that I wouldn't normally hit if playing my own ball, but that's about the only way I'll get to 14.
GP, THAT SET ([driver, 3-5-7-8-9 irons, PW, SW, putter.) IS 9 CLUBS... IS THAT WHAT YOU TOOK TO OR TOOK AWAY FROM THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT TOUR A LONG TIME AGO?
Damn, just noticed this question, 2+ years later. Makes me feel ashamed.
Truth be told, I don't remember. Were I a betting man, I'd wager my 6 iron also made the trip. Did the 4 iron? Yeah, probably. I doubt any others.
Took to or away, now that is funny!! Hope you and Miss Sheila are well, Steve!
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11 clubs in a ping moonlite. So easy to carry.
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I play with 14. Seems kind of odd to me to play with less.
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Ten when I walk and 14 when I don't.
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15 when I can. I would carry 20 if I could. I carry 4 wedges and always seem to be between clubs. I don't understand the obsession with fewer clubs. I play in a fun tournament with 32 friends each year. Most of the fun occurs off the golf course. We play the "one bag rule", all the clubs you can carry in one bag. Works for me.
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I don't understand the obsession with fewer clubs.
Two reasons:
1) I think it's fun to occasionally be forced to create a shot I wouldn't otherwise hit. You obviously prefer to have the option to have the club do that. Neither is correct, just different approaches. You probably also play more for score. I'm lousy, have to find fun where I can. :)
2) I walk whenever possible. Fewer clubs is less weight to carry. In fact, in really casual rounds at my local muni, I might only carry 5 or 6 clubs - driver, 3 iron, 7-9, PW, putter. It's a shorter course, maybe 6400 yards from the tees I play. No difficult bunkers and few approaches with anything longer than a 7.
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It all depends on how many I leave on the range....so anywhere from 11 to 14. ;D
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Here's a WITB video with Miguel Angel Jimenez.
What's interesting is that he's suggesting that the pro's should be playing with 10 clubs -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH_Lx-wvnwM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH_Lx-wvnwM)
atb
I’d give ‘em five!
Pros are generally playing driver/wedge into most par 4s, so all they really need in addition to those is a 3 iron for accuracy/position off the tee, and a 7 iron for everything else in between.
Plus a putter.
Oh, and no caddy, yardage chart, or greens book...
..or tee pegs! 🤣
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Here's a WITB video with Miguel Angel Jimenez.
What's interesting is that he's suggesting that the pro's should be playing with 10 clubs -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH_Lx-wvnwM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH_Lx-wvnwM)
atb
I’d give ‘em five!
Pros are generally playing driver/wedge into most par 4s, so all they really need in addition is a 3 iron for accuracy and position off the tee, and a 7 iron for everything else in between.
Plus a putter.
Oh, and no caddy, yardage chart, or greens book...
..or tee pegs! 🤣
:) :)
Atb
Atb
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8) grew up first 12 years or so playing 3,5,7,9, D, 3W. 4W, P... bought a SW in college. lately, like to use even stephen set of: H, 6,8,10, 53 sw, 7W, 2W, P
speeds up play definitely, club selection is very quick, give it a waggle and hit it!
also only 4-5 balls carried
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I usually carry 12-14 clubs and have no pace of play issues.
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I usually carry 6 to 8, but usually have the full 14 available when I use my push cart. Carrying too many clubs makes my back hurt. I found even carrying 8 at Buda last time made my back hurt and rented push carts after the first round.