Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Joe_Tucholski on April 19, 2013, 12:46:29 AM
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I’m hoping to make a trip to the UK this summer and interested in visiting courses that offer international or country memberships for those who live outside of the country. The idea of a lifetime membership is really enticing and something I think I could convince my wife is a good idea.
Below is the information I’ve found on this site or course websites. The information is likely outdated in many cases.
Royal Dornoch – Entrance $850 Annual $430 (full member it’s not listed as international and as I understand it not really open for new members)
Loch Lomond – lists overseas membership no prices
Cruden Bay – Country $300 joining $330 annual and overseas $300 joining $300 annual
Askernish - $100 per year for country/international (also says life membership exists)
Golspie – £ 200ish per year for country listed on this site
Brora –£ 255.00 per year for country
Tain - £ 240.00 per year for country
Ballybunion – Lists overseas membership no prices 17000 listed elsewhere on internet
Lahinich – Lists overseas life membership no prices (10keuro listed on GCA)
Wentworth – lists overseas no prices
Old Head – lists international no prices
Carne – Overseas life membership 6000 euro
Enniscrone - 4000 euros for life
Ballyliffin – Life membership 5000 euro
Royal Portrush – 40000 pounds (listed on GCA)
Waterville G. L. – Lists international membership no prices
County Louth – Lists overseas membership on website but no prices
Deal – 10k life member or 500 annual (listed on GCA and a few members here)
Woodhall Spa – 536 annual
Royal Saint Davids – £125 entry fee; £245 annual dues
Royal North Devon, Westward Ho! – 180 pounds (255 for family)
Saunton -325 pounds
Pennard – 264 pounds (distant)
Woking Golf Club 570 pounds (listed on GCA)
If you’re aware of other courses that offer these types of memberships (or memberships that would pay for themselves in a week of playing) please share them so I can keep notes and make visits.
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Joe -
I believe Country Memberships are currently available at Golspie, Brora and Tain with no joining fee. If you play 6-8 rounds a year at any of these clubs, you reach or pass the "break even" point.
The other nice feature of being of Country member is that you can usually bring 10 to 12 guests a year at a reduced green fee rate that is a fraction of the usual Visitor's green fee.
DT
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Why would you do such a thing? Do you plan to play in the UK often?
The US really must have a look at the reciprocal system that Australia has, its not a bad lark.
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Waterville have an EU membership. Last year it was 30 000 euro to join and 872 annual dues. They must be doing well as they take 6 weeks to reply to emails!
You can apply to Join one of the North Berwick clubs. Not sure of international rate but it will be no more than £300 pa and a similar joining fee. Waiting time 3-5years.
I would also check Portrush. When I enquired about a decade ago, I could join as an overseas member, pay two years at country member rate (£600 from memory) and thereafter the overseas rate, which the Secretary agreed was less than the published weekend summer visitor rate for one round on the Dunluce course! For two courses! If I only had a bit more time!
If you plan to return annually you will make friends and get more from the experience. However I would also want to be near a reasonable size town with a few eating and other choices, you'll be spending more time off the course than on it.
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Joe,
you are aware that 99.9% of UK clubs allow greenfee players and most even on the weekend? If you are planning a longer stay in the Highlands then I can recommend Golpsie as being a bargin to join and super course to play.
Jon
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Further to Jon's comments, most better/traditional clubs in Britain offer country membership. If it's this you have your heart set on I'd suggest picking your preferred area, perhaps checking the 'Top 100' website to view county by county and going from there. For example, simply checking out the Highlands region or Surrey will give you any number of choices.
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To answer the questions, I didn't say I was going to join these clubs at this time. I'm interested in visiting them on this trip so that in the future when the time comes to make visits for an extended period of time at one location I'll know where to go. At the places that have low/no joining fees and low annuals it make sense to join for a trip as short as a week (I'll play more than 10 rounds in a week). That being said I do think an attractive lifetime membership is something I could go through with (at 30 I have to believe it will be worthwhile).
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Over the years I have played about 200 courses in GB&I. There are, obviously, more to play but I have tired of the travel and like to stay in one place. Recently I have purchased overseas memberships at either RND or Saunton. I like meeting some of the locals and membership gives you access to the best starting times and competitions. Devon and Cornwall have a beautiful coastline and the South West Coast Path is a great walk when not playing golf.
When I know I will be able to stay a while, buying and overseas "subscription" makes sense.
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My advice to anyone looking for a GB&I overseas membership is as follows;
How easy is the journey? Will you tire of a 4 hour winding road after a few visits.
What else is nearby? A historic town or city will give options especially when friends come to visit.
Will your membership potentially open a few doors? Membership of a premium club will rarely see you struggling to find a guest or meeting interesting people during your stays.
Are there added benefits? Does the club have arrangements with other clubs at home or abroad. Is there a network of overseas members. Are there matches you may want to play in.
Finally if you join as a life member see the fee as a contribution to preserving a historic club you love rather than pure numbers.
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I forget the details, but Crail offers a terrific deal - ~L100 per year for unlimited play on two wonderful and complementary courses - a short drive from St. Andrews which makes a nice home base.
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Josh - I know several Westwood Ho! foreign members who see their subs as sponsoring a historic club. Most US memberships make little sense if you purely look at the cost and cost per round.
Keith - Crail is a corker but you can only play 4 rounds a year on each course and take 4 guests per annum.
A Deal member who died a couple of years ago paid £500 for life at Ballybunion and a mate paid £1000 around 20 years ago!
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Full membership at Crail is only £350pa. Full membership at Silloth is £410 and overseas membership is £250. I'm sure there are plenty of similar values among 2nd tier clubs.
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Joe
Where in the US would you be flying from, and which UK/I airports are available for a direct flight?
I agree with Mark that practicality is critical.
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According to the Nairn & Portnoo web-site, international life membership in 2011 was €3,500.
Joe, how old are you? Nearing retirement? If you're a senior (over 55 I think), you can play in the Donegal Seniors competitions at courses such as Rosapenna and Ballyliffin for €10. I guess you'd have to be a member of an Ulster club to be eligible.
The following Golfing Union of Ireland (GUI) site allows you to search memberships throughout Ireland:
http://www.gui.ie/home/playing-golf/membership-search.aspx
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When I go to Saunton or RND I fly into Bristol. It is an easy drive to the clubs.
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Tommy those local connections are great, as long as they remain active. Lots of Brits came unstuck buying rural French cottages on the back of Ryanair flying to out of the way places. They caught a cold when Mr O'Leary ditched his unprofitable routes and they were suddenly 2-3 hours from an airport.
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Though getting to Bristol will never be that difficult. Connections are important here, I admit, but the reality is that the UK is a small country and only the real extremes are or ever will be that tricky to get to.
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Mark agreed but there are plenty of places where a 2-3 hour drive would soon become a pain after the novelty of the place wears off. Birmingham or Manchester to Harlech would grate after a couple of visits. Even LHR to Haunstanton and Woodhall Spa is a bit of a ball ache.
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Full membership at Machrihanish is 300 GBP, my lifetime overseas membership at Carne was 1200 euros 15 years ago.
I never tire of the 3 hour Glasgow to Machrihanish road trip, some of the most spectacular and varied scenes in Scotland.
The 4 hour road to Carne from Dublin/Belfast through Ireland is a bore though..... I haven't tried the flight into Knock yet.
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Remember, if it was "easy" to get to some of these more remote places, there would be little point in going to them. ;)
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David that's very true, but would you want to go there every year transatlantic for 20 years? Dornoch is a lovely little town but there are plenty of very good courses in "gritty" locations.
Frank on my only visit to Machrihanish it rained non-stop the whole weekend making the journey less exciting! We arrived on the Friday, got drowned and gave up after 5 or 6 holes and spent 10 hours on the lash until 2am. Saturday was just heavy rain so we completed the round and Sunday was wet followed with another long drive back to Glasgow. I loved the course and it "owes me one" for a return trip!!
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Full membership at Machrihanish is 300 GBP, my lifetime overseas membership at Carne was 1200 euros 15 years ago.
I never tire of the 3 hour Glasgow to Machrihanish road trip, some of the most spectacular and varied scenes in Scotland.
The 4 hour road to Carne from Dublin/Belfast through Ireland is a bore though..... I haven't tried the flight into Knock yet.
Knock is famous for the long runway. The priest who campaigned to get the airport built got some money from the US military and as chance would have it, it turns out that the runway is long enough for fully laden bombers to land and take off.
You can also fly to Shannon and drive up, or Derry (Eglinton) and drive down.
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The priest who campaigned to get the airport built got some money from the US military and as chance would have it, it turns out that the runway is long enough for fully laden bombers to land and take off.
Woody Allen couldn't have written that sentence.
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Brora Country Membership- 250 Sterling p.a.
Hunstanton- 2 Country Memberships (fees unavailable)
K Club- $25,000 +1,250 Euro/ annum
Gleneagles- 500 Sterling + 3,250 annual
Gullane- Overseas available (fees unavailable)
Murcar- Overseas- 160 Sterling p.a.
The Machrie- 160 Sterling p.a.
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"David that's very true, but would you want to go there every year transatlantic for 20 years? Dornoch is a lovely little town but there are plenty of very good courses in "gritty" locations. "
Mark -
This will be the 10th year of making two round trips at year between San Francisco & Dornoch and I expect to be doing the same for at least another 10 years. That is how I am voting on the matter. ;)
DT
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Full membership at Machrihanish is 300 GBP, my lifetime overseas membership at Carne was 1200 euros 15 years ago.
I never tire of the 3 hour Glasgow to Machrihanish road trip, some of the most spectacular and varied scenes in Scotland.
The 4 hour road to Carne from Dublin/Belfast through Ireland is a bore though..... I haven't tried the flight into Knock yet.
Knock is famous for the long runway. The priest who campaigned to get the airport built got some money from the US military and as chance would have it, it turns out that the runway is long enough for fully laden bombers to land and take off.
You can also fly to Shannon and drive up, or Derry (Eglinton) and drive down.
I've flown into Knock a few times - fairly harmless trip. The problem with the wee Irish airports is limited times and dates due to not many airlines using them. If you book well in advance be sure to leave extra time for flight changes. I don't think I have ever been able to keep the time I booked. A few times it changed twice!
Ciao
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A couple of other options:
Donegal (Murvagh) - International annual membership 505 Euro (approx
Portsalon - overseas life membership 2500 Euro
Ballyliffin - Oversease life membership 5000 Euro
Dunno what the rates at Rosapenna are, but worth contacting them. Already a great option and can only get better with Tom Doak's involvement.
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A friend received a life membership at Isle of Harris Golf Club in the Outer Hebrides about 15 years ago as a Christmas gift.
He has yet to visit this course that he belongs to but it is on his bucket list.
Today the web site lists a lifetime membership for 300 pounds. Memory is that it was much less than 300 when his friend gave him this gift.
Looks like remote is not an adequate decription, but the web site photos look excellent !
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Tommy those local connections are great, as long as they remain active. Lots of Brits came unstuck buying rural French cottages on the back of Ryanair flying to out of the way places. They caught a cold when Mr O'Leary ditched his unprofitable routes and they were suddenly 2-3 hours from an airport.
Mark, re. Americans, you have to understand that in places where I've lived people drive more than an hour each way to go to work. And my sister-in-law lived for 40 years on a ranch that was that far from a place to buy groceries.
Even now, it's ~75 miles to the airport when I travel for business or vacation.
When I lived in South Dakota I knew several people whose vacation cottage was a 3-hour drive, and a few who were twice that far.
It's all relative, and course our cheaper fuel helps too.
K
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Ken I've driven 7 hours on dirt roads in the Outback to deliver pizza to a mate so know how Aussies and Americans view distance. But I also know guys who love their golf want to be on the links and not in the car. Jumping off the red eye and spending 3/4 hours in the car to stay at a club in the middle of nowhere can lose its attraction after a while.
We were trying to get an Italian GCA to join Deal but he can fly 500 miles further direct to Prestwick and have a 5 minute cab ride to the club, rather than 90 minutes from Gatwick.
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I've enjoyed being an overseas member of an Irish course. A word of caution is on the risk of currency exchange over an extended period of time. When I joined the exchange rate was about .8 and it's been as high as 1.55 and is currently about 1.3. So the cost to me of going overseas has increased dramatically due to currency exchange fluctuations in addition to general price inflation. There are a lot of high quality national clubs in the U.S. without the currency or travel issues but there's nothing quite the same as the Irish or British links experience.
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I live in Argentina and travel regularly at least once a year to the UK. I was looking for an overseas membership of an English club. I was offered one at Royal North Devon, which looks as a great deal in terms of cost. However, the location of the club seems to be a bit off the track. I usually go down to the Kent coast. Does anybody know if Royal Cinque Ports offers any kind of overseas membership?
Kind regards,
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As we are talking about how local clubs in the UK could use additional members, anyone have some updates for these categories? Maybe a good way to advertise your club or ones you know are accepting new members.
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Cavendish has a Flexible Membership category which offers up to 12 rounds of golf per year for only £275.00. This allows full 7 day access to the course, a CONGU handicap, discounts in the bar and restaurant, and entry to all competitions. You can also sign in guests at a much reduced rate.
This is ideal for occasional players, 2nd club membership, or overseas membership.
Only 40 minutes from Manchester Airport, Cavendish is the perfect start to any English golf trip and Buxton is a lovely town in which to stay.
http://www.cavendishgolfclub.com/flexible-memberships/ (http://www.cavendishgolfclub.com/flexible-memberships/)
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One of the perks of an overseas membership is the ability to play in member competitions, which are many. Most clubs also have tee times marked off for members. When I was a member at Westward Ho! I would play for a week a year, play in some of the competitions, and hang out with some of the members. It was a great way to spend a week. I loved it. One day I payed 63 holes. It is a great place. For a while I had memberships at both Saunton and WH! It was great. I don't think a saved much money but it was worth every penny.
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One of the other cool features of these memberships is the possibility to play at “reciprocal clubs”.
Royal Dornoch, as an example, has 10 including Royal Melbourne, Royal Sydney and CC of North Carolina.
Just makes US club golf look a bit out of step.
Especially since the annual dues at these top U.K. clubs can be well less than a month’s dues at a US club.
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Royal North Devon had the same reciprocal relationships with other "royals."
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Given how the British Pound is in the toilet (below $1.20 this morning!), now is an excellent time to think about joining a golf club in the UK.
Golspie, Brora & Tain are all happy to accept members with no joining fee. An Overseas Membership at Golspie for 200 Pounds a year gives you unlimited play there, the ability to introduce 12 guests a year at a nominal green fee and the right to 3 reciprocal rounds per year each at Brora, Tain & Dornoch for a modestly more nominal green fee.
Plus, it is a very fun, very scenic course to play.
https://www.golspiegolfclub.co.uk/members/how-to-apply (https://www.golspiegolfclub.co.uk/members/how-to-apply)
Anyone with questions is welcome to contact me here or at tcmnav@aol.com
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Royal North Devon had the same reciprocal relationships with other "royals."
I think this is typical of many of the "official" royal clubs.
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I live in Argentina and travel regularly at least once a year to the UK. I was looking for an overseas membership of an English club. I was offered one at Royal North Devon, which looks as a great deal in terms of cost. However, the location of the club seems to be a bit off the track. I usually go down to the Kent coast. Does anybody know if Royal Cinque Ports offers any kind of overseas membership?
Kind regards,
Si!
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Given how the British Pound is in the toilet (below $1.20 this morning!), now is an excellent time to think about joining a golf club in the UK.
Sterling is only going in one direction for a while. There's no rush!
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Mark -
After 40 years in the investment business I am of the opinion that trying to pick the bottom/turning point in any market is very, very tough. At $1.20 to the Pound, we Americans are getting very good value for our money.
DT
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I really enjoyed playing St. George’s Hill, not sure if they offer International Membership or not.
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"At $1.20 to the Pound, we Americans are getting very good value for our money."
Turns out the pound at $1.207 on September 3 was the bottom (so far :) ). Hope you renewed your Overseas Membership last month. ;)
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"At $1.20 to the Pound, we Americans are getting very good value for our money."
Turns out the pound at $1.207 on September 3 was the bottom. Hope you renewed your Overseas Membership last month. ;)
Let’s wait until after October 31 before declaring “the bottom” for the GBP.
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Mark -
After 40 years in the investment business I am of the opinion that trying to pick the bottom/turning point in any market is very, very tough. At $1.20 to the Pound, we Americans are getting very good value for our money.
DT
It all depends. The nice little old lady who rented me a room in August during the high season raised it by £5/night for my September visit without telling me during booking. Apparently the "weakness" of the pound can be ameliorated by simply requiring more of them. Homo economicus.
Concur on market timing. But it is also dangerous to put a pencil to the real costs of international and national memberships. I know a few guys who could not overcome the buyer's remorse even though money was not tight. IMO, there's more than the golf that has to be involved for it to work.
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I did a few trips to Australia and Ireland beginning in 2007 and spent quite a bit of time on the Mornington Peninsula in Australia and County Donegal in Ireland. In 2014 I got a non-local membership at Ballyliffin in Ireland and The National Golf Club in Australia. For five golf seasons, I generally made two trips to Ireland beginning in 2014 I started doing two trips a year to Australia. I took a break this year at Ballyliffin due to other priorities.
I also live in the Seattle area and have a condo in San Diego. So I have experience traveling long distances to two different locations at opposite ends of the earth from each other. I have enjoyed my experiences playing golf in these two countries and really like the golf culture. It's been a nice lifestyle. Both places and clubs are welcoming and warm. Both have multiple courses. I have done 13 trips involving Ireland to date and the one I am leaving on in a week will be my 16th trip to Australia.
A few comments for someone looking at this kind of option.
1. Do a couple of trips to the course, club, and area.
2. Figure out what you like about the local culture, non-golf amenities, and your level of interest in the country you are spending time in.
3. Consider the effort getting there and what you are giving up with the commitment associated with being gone for four to ten or twelve weeks a year.
4. What kind of network options are there for discounted golf, open competitions or access to other clubs in areas you want travel to or through?
5. Factor in costs of being gone and consider options for holiday rentals, Airbnb, and lower cost lodging.
6. Ask yourself how comfortable you are with solo travel or alternatively if you have golf friends you can spend extended time with who are compatible with how you travel.
7. Ask yourself how you feel about saying you are a member of a lower tier club, with courses not ranked in the best of the best in the country.
My trip next week will be my 44th overseas trip since late 2007. About a dozen of the trips involved minimal or no golf. I have been gone close to three years and have spent close to two years driving on the left side. I have accepted cost saving options like driving manual transmissions in Ireland. I also found a credit card which covers damage on car rentals in Ireland. I've learned a lot about air fares, frequent flyer programs, public transportation systems, and so forth.
There are many good club options in Ireland and the UK. Virtually all the North and West Coast Links courses in Ireland have options. St. Enodoc, Royal North Devon, and Saunton in SW England are places I have visited. Most people focus their golf travel in Australia on eight to ten of the best of the best on a single trip. I found something that worked for me there.
Best wishes for people considering this option. It's made for a lot of quality time in retirement. I'll add that I don't have a spouse, never got married, never had children, and retired from a satisfying career at a time that worked out well.
I didn't travel overseas for four decades after my sophomore year in college in a study abroad program in Europe. School and a career took up four decades. Golf travel was a great replacement in this phase of life.
Charles Lund
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Charles -
Very intriguing, thanks. How long do you typically stay on each visit? What lodging option have you used most often, and has that changed over time? Per your comment #1, did you scout other choices in UK or Ireland from a short list that included Ballyliffin?
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On my first trip to Ireland I was there for five weeks and played 27 rounds on 23 different courses. I returned to Ireland on three different trips and went back to Donegal for most of my time, playing different courses and usually The European Club near Dublin which offered half off on a second round.
I found this area of Ireland to have a raw feel to it as far as natural surroundings and less regimentation and an absence of tour buses relative to the top five destinations. I was in the process of applying for the membership at Murvagh and inquired if Ballyliffin would make the non-local annual membership available. I enjoyed Murvagh, Rosapenna, and Ballyliffin on my trips On one in June, 2011, I was at Ballyliffin when Rory McIlroy won the U.S. Open. On the morning I left, he flew in by helicopter for an Oakley photo shoot.
So by 2014 I had spent a fair amount of time there. I probably would have been equally happy at Rosapenna or Murvagh and generally played there on many trips to Ireland.
I started staying in hotels and B&Bs and later went to holiday rentals, staying two to four weeks. I went through a similar process in Australia. Airbnb became a phenomenon in the past few years.
I've done Ireland trips that included different routings within the country and combined Ireland trips with Scotland, England, Sweden, and Iceland. I have flown to Melbourne directly and done other stops all over Australia. I have also traveled to Australia through Japan and Hong Kong.
So getting overseas memberships helped with more creative travel itineraries.
Charles Lund
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Mark - sterling has strengthened on the sight of a deal as the markets hate this continued uncertainty, it’s now falling again as Parliament continues to try and frustrate the process.
Many Royal clubs have reciprocal arrangements but certainly not all of them. Members of Royal Melbourne can arrive in Dover play at Royal Cinque Ports and wind their way to Royal Dornoch with barely an hours drive between many of their reciprocal clubs.
A good friend visits Melbourne annually to see family and manages on average 3 games each at two reciprocal clubs there including the RM.
At RCP annual fees for overseas members are around 4x the single round green fee, there is a fairly lumpy joining fee which several on here avoided years ago, to their advantage!
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The £250 p/a deal that Richard mentions on the Royal St David’s at Harlech seems like a good deal. Tempted myself if it were a bit closer.
Atb
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There’s a reason it’s cheap, Harlech is a complete pain to get to.
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There’s a reason it’s cheap, Harlech is a complete pain to get to.
The phrase stating the bleedin’ obvious comes to mind! :)
Atb
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The £250 p/a deal that Richard mentions on the Royal St David’s at Harlech seems like a good deal. Tempted myself if it were a bit closer.
Atb
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https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/4680c2_0ef6ae565ae34eb8a1121ef4050b296c.pdf (https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/4680c2_0ef6ae565ae34eb8a1121ef4050b296c.pdf)
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A friend received a life membership at Isle of Harris Golf Club in the Outer Hebrides about 15 years ago as a Christmas gift.
He has yet to visit this course that he belongs to but it is on his bucket list.
Today the web site lists a lifetime membership for 300 pounds. Memory is that it was much less than 300 when his friend gave him this gift.
Looks like remote is not an adequate decription, but the web site photos look excellent !
Isle of Harris GC Life Membership is now £350 and there is a Life Members tournament every August. I play in the tournament every two years but tour some part of Scotland every year. It is a nine hole course but the views are superb.