Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: John Kavanaugh on February 04, 2013, 07:46:53 PM
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From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course. Is this an incorrect assumption? Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality? How do other multiple course facilities compare?
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Maybe they could have a Composite Course?
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I thought the courses were pretty different. The land that the red occupies is pretty wild and rugged. The greens on the blue had more movement and contours. I thought there was a nice difference between the two courses and you will have two different experiences on the same property. Kind of like the differences at Bandon.
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Maybe they could have a Composite Course?
I asked this on one of the Streamsong tour threads. I think the answer is nothing works too well.
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JK - there's been about 5 responses, so you can now morph this into a Dismal River thread whenever you want.... :D
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I thought the courses were pretty different. The land that the red occupies is pretty wild and rugged. The greens on the blue had more movement and contours. I thought there was a nice difference between the two courses and you will have two different experiences on the same property. Kind of like the differences at Bandon.
I thought the courses at Bandon were all very different. Have not seen Old Mac. Are the courses at Streamsong that distinct from each other? If so than my initial perception is wrong.
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From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course. Is this an incorrect assumption? Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality? How do other multiple course facilities compare?
The bunkers on each course look different.
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In addition to bunker styles, the major difference is in the greens. Red has more broad contours while the Blue has more sharp internal contours. Certainly more similarities than, say World Woods, but different enough that they have their own personalities. Also Red 1-6, which feels very different than the other 30 due to more water and tighter playing corridors. Of course the reasons for that have been well documented.
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From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course. Is this an incorrect assumption? Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality? How do other multiple course facilities compare?
I'll let you know. ;)
I'm slipping away from a Disney vacation next week to visit Streamsong. Very interested to see how it compares to Barnbougle Dunes which also has Coore and Doak courses. Barnbougle currently resides at the top of my "most like to visit again" list.
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The greens are definitely different. Red greens are more subtle, more difficult for me to read, blue greens have more movement, easier for me to read, more difficult to putt. I got tricked a couple of times by the Red greens where I was reading the macro contour and the ball didn't react like I thought it would. On the blue I really like how some of the bolder contour also had some helpers buried about. case in point being the 15 green. Had a putt from the left side to front right which had no chance of getting close because of the steep transition, but someone added a nice little deflector bump that acted as a speed bump and side board. I think there is more of that out there.
While both course have center line bunkers (favorites being 11, 18 on Red, 6, 8 on blue) I felt the Red was more about execution and Blue more about options off the tee. Finally, the par 3s are very different. I was not overwhelmed by the Red par 3s, the Blue on the other hand has an outstanding set of 3s. #5 and #7 will get the press, but #10 and #16! are very good holes.
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Michael,
Did you say you're slipping away from Disney to play Streamsong ? ? ?
Where did I hear that that would seem to be a natural ? ;D
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Two Courses.
I shall be there myself next month but my understanding is that the two courses are quite different.
The obvious characteristics are bunkering and green contours but in reading the reviews, it seems there are other factors in play also.
It is a very interesting case study in the different styles of C&C and Doak as the site itself is quite common (unlike say Lost Farms).
Regards,
Patrick
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Two Courses.
I shall be there myself next month but my understanding is that the two courses are quite different.
The obvious characteristics are bunkering and green contours but in reading the reviews, it seems there are other factors in play also.
It is a very interesting case study in the different styles of C&C and Doak as the site itself is quite common (unlike say Lost Farms).
Regards,
Patrick
Good point, Patrick, about the Streamsong courses being on (basically) the same piece of property vs the Barnbougle courses. Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm are very different sites.
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I thought the courses were pretty different. The land that the red occupies is pretty wild and rugged. The greens on the blue had more movement and contours. I thought there was a nice difference between the two courses and you will have two different experiences on the same property. Kind of like the differences at Bandon.
I thought the courses at Bandon were all very different. Have not seen Old Mac. Are the courses at Streamsong that distinct from each other? If so than my initial perception is wrong.
Aside from the bunkering and green contours, I thought the land on the courses was very different. I felt the land on the Red was much more dramatic and the wild dunes from the mining process had a much bigger prescence on that course...especially during the start and the finish. The beginning of Red plays through some of the coolest land I have seen on a golf course and finishes on 18 with this 60 foot dune that stretches 300 yards down the right side of the hole. There is definitely a different feeling to the land on these two courses.
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One of the great things about SS is the option to go out at twilight at find little connections on the course. as time goes on, the ability to find these little 3 to 6 hole composite loops to end a day will be pretty popular.
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One of the great things about SS is the option to go out at twilight at find little connections on the course. as time goes on, the ability to find these little 3 to 6 hole composite loops to end a day will be pretty popular.
It was my understanding that they charge a replay rate. Is there an all day rate?
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John,
The courses are not all that similar in how they play. The Doak course (the one I liked best) has quite a bit more room off the tee to play. Also, the greens are wilder on that course. I thought the C&C course was harder, had less room to play off the tee, and had more of a chance to lose a golf ball. I wasn't playing all that well, and I lost 3 golf balls on the C&C course and none on the Doak course. I also considered that they could put together a "composite course", and they probably could...but the person with a keen eye could probably tell which holes belong on each course.
I thought that the Doak course had most of the best property to work with. I was told that Bill Coore had his pick of which land to choose and his decision was driven by choosing the property that would require the most work, in order to keep his guys working. Not sure if that is true, but I kind of think it is.
But for a winter get away, I think SS is going to be a big hit. From the middle of the country, you can get to Tampa in about a 2 hour flight, and then you've got 1 hr 10 min by car. Compare that to Bandon, which takes all day to get to. There is great appeal in that part of the equation.
TS
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It was my understanding that they charge a replay rate. Is there an all day rate?
Don't know how they charge, but an all-day rate doesn't seem like a bad idea.
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John,
The courses are not all that similar in how they play. The Doak course (the one I liked best) has quite a bit more room off the tee to play. Also, the greens are wilder on that course. I thought the C&C course was harder, had less room to play off the tee, and had more of a chance to lose a golf ball. I wasn't playing all that well, and I lost 3 golf balls on the C&C course and none on the Doak course. I also considered that they could put together a "composite course", and they probably could...but the person with a keen eye could probably tell which holes belong on each course.
I thought that the Doak course had most of the best property to work with. I was told that Bill Coore had his pick of which land to choose and his decision was driven by choosing the property that would require the most work, in order to keep his guys working. Not sure if that is true, but I kind of think it is.
But for a winter get away, I think SS is going to be a big hit. From the middle of the country, you can get to Tampa in about a 2 hour flight, and then you've got 1 hr 10 min by car. Compare that to Bandon, which takes all day to get to. There is great appeal in that part of the equation.
TS
Ted,
Thanks. Given the high quality of the accommodations do you see Streamsong as more of a place you would take your chick over a destination buddy trip with four guys? I've never gone to Kohler with my buds because it feels more like a place to take the wife.
You know my demo down here in Evansville. Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong? Not to mention the great time cheap vacation Myrtle Beach can offer.
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John,
The courses are not all that similar in how they play. The Doak course (the one I liked best) has quite a bit more room off the tee to play. Also, the greens are wilder on that course. I thought the C&C course was harder, had less room to play off the tee, and had more of a chance to lose a golf ball. I wasn't playing all that well, and I lost 3 golf balls on the C&C course and none on the Doak course. I also considered that they could put together a "composite course", and they probably could...but the person with a keen eye could probably tell which holes belong on each course.
I thought that the Doak course had most of the best property to work with. I was told that Bill Coore had his pick of which land to choose and his decision was driven by choosing the property that would require the most work, in order to keep his guys working. Not sure if that is true, but I kind of think it is.
But for a winter get away, I think SS is going to be a big hit. From the middle of the country, you can get to Tampa in about a 2 hour flight, and then you've got 1 hr 10 min by car. Compare that to Bandon, which takes all day to get to. There is great appeal in that part of the equation.
TS
Ted,
Thanks. Given the high quality of the accommodations do you see Streamsong as more of a place you would take your chick over a destination buddy trip with four guys? I've never gone to Kohler with my buds because it feels more like a place to take the wife.
You know my demo down here in Evansville. Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong? Not to mention the great time cheap vacation Myrtle Beach can offer.
Probably no gentlemen's clubs near Streamsong.
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Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong?
I heard a story this last weekend about 4 guys who were playing at Streamsong and asked their caddie to take a group photo of them. Then later on in the round they all four reach into their golf bags and proceed to change into different golf shirts and again ask to have a group photo taken. Later on, the same thing again - another new shirt, another new pic... As the story goes, they played the one round and then took off for Las Vegas, planning to send these pics to their wives as if they were on a multi-day golf trip to Streamsong!
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John,
The courses are not all that similar in how they play. The Doak course (the one I liked best) has quite a bit more room off the tee to play. Also, the greens are wilder on that course. I thought the C&C course was harder, had less room to play off the tee, and had more of a chance to lose a golf ball. I wasn't playing all that well, and I lost 3 golf balls on the C&C course and none on the Doak course. I also considered that they could put together a "composite course", and they probably could...but the person with a keen eye could probably tell which holes belong on each course.
I thought that the Doak course had most of the best property to work with. I was told that Bill Coore had his pick of which land to choose and his decision was driven by choosing the property that would require the most work, in order to keep his guys working. Not sure if that is true, but I kind of think it is.
But for a winter get away, I think SS is going to be a big hit. From the middle of the country, you can get to Tampa in about a 2 hour flight, and then you've got 1 hr 10 min by car. Compare that to Bandon, which takes all day to get to. There is great appeal in that part of the equation.
TS
Ted,
Thanks. Given the high quality of the accommodations do you see Streamsong as more of a place you would take your chick over a destination buddy trip with four guys? I've never gone to Kohler with my buds because it feels more like a place to take the wife.
You know my demo down here in Evansville. Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong? Not to mention the great time cheap vacation Myrtle Beach can offer.
Probably no gentlemen's clubs near Streamsong.
Not exactly next door but Tampa is known for it's generous selection of gentleman's clubs
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Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong?
I heard a story this last weekend about 4 guys who were playing at Streamsong and asked their caddie to take a group photo of them. Then later on in the round they all four reach into their golf bags and proceed to change into different golf shirts and again ask to have a group photo taken. Later on, the same thing again - another new shirt, another new pic... As the story goes, they played the one round and then took off for Las Vegas, planning to send these pics to their wives as if they were on a multi-day golf trip to Streamsong!
Those guys are evil geniuses.
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Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong?
I heard a story this last weekend about 4 guys who were playing at Streamsong and asked their caddie to take a group photo of them. Then later on in the round they all four reach into their golf bags and proceed to change into different golf shirts and again ask to have a group photo taken. Later on, the same thing again - another new shirt, another new pic... As the story goes, they played the one round and then took off for Las Vegas, planning to send these pics to their wives as if they were on a multi-day golf trip to Streamsong!
Those guys are evil geniuses.
Evil enough to change the date on the image files?
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Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong?
I heard a story this last weekend about 4 guys who were playing at Streamsong and asked their caddie to take a group photo of them. Then later on in the round they all four reach into their golf bags and proceed to change into different golf shirts and again ask to have a group photo taken. Later on, the same thing again - another new shirt, another new pic... As the story goes, they played the one round and then took off for Las Vegas, planning to send these pics to their wives as if they were on a multi-day golf trip to Streamsong!
Those guys are evil geniuses.
Evil enough to change the date on the image files?
They've been telling that story at Bandon for years. It's a good tale.
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The Casino in Coos Bay does a great job. Bandon is the total package. It is not in the conversation with Vegas, unlike Kohler and Streamsong.
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John,
Ran and I took our gals down there for our recent trip to SS. I know the Tampa area very well, and we purposely stayed in Tampa so the girls would have stuff to do (shopping, the beach). I saw the lodge being built at SS, but other than the spa, I think a non-golf playing spouse/gal would be bored to tears out there. SS is really in the middle of nowhere. It took us 1 hr 10 min to get there from our hotel in Tampa. If I were taking a female guest, I would do it the way we did it. If you want to take guys somewhere (and stay on property while you enjoy the golf) I think SS will be a great choice. I think the Doak course is world top 100 for sure, and the C&C course is a solid "Doak 7". Hard to find that with public access within a 2 hour plane ride of the midwest.
I didnt' get the casino gambling gene, so I can't relate to that question. If guys played 36 holes each day, cleaned up for dinner and ate and drank, I think you all would be too tired to do anything but plant face on pillow anyway.
Hope this helps.
TS
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I guess I will weigh in. The property consists of 2 distinct courses. Given the design preferences of the architects, it is not surprising that there are similarities. I would discount the notion that Bill Coore picked the property that would provide the most work; that doesn't sound anything like Bill Coore. Since I did not see the property before the shaping, I can't opine on how much was changed. However the Red (Coore) course is located amongst the more dramatic dunes. It is a bit more schizophrenic in that the front 9 starts out with 3 very difficult holes where lost balls are a real possibility. The rest of the 9 is quite short and while there is some real interest, it is relatively easy, particularly in the winds which we were told prevail. The back 9 is quite a bit longer. Greens are generally large with as many as 6 greens within greens. While they are quite interesting, the internal contours within the "subgreens" are not as severe as on the Blue (Doak) course and the alternate routes to holes which exist on the Blue course by reason of such contours are not as prevalent.
The Blue has an outstanding collection of par 3's. The fairways are somewhat more forgiving and as usual on Tom's courses, the game gets more interesting as one approaches the greens. The greens are large, but they did not seem as large as the Red. However many of the contours are more stiking but I felt that I had more options in getting the ball to the hole. Both courses are wonderful to play and while they have many similarities, the discerning eye can differentiate between them without too much trouble. Kept firm and fast, they are a lot of fun and different from any public access course I have experienced in Florida.
Success, who knows? I suspect a certain portion of the golfing public will view the center bunkers, wild greens, ground game emphasis as "goofy golf". But for the rest, it will be better than any public option in Florida. However, unless other activities grow up around it, this will not be a place to bring families. Thus the only question is whether there are enough buddy trips during the cold weather to make it pay? For me, it is the best late fall - early spring option for anyone from the midwest to the eastern seaboard. But the trip has to be almost entirely golf related. Ron Whitten expressed his doubts in this weeks's Golfworld.
Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if they slow the greens down after they achieve more play. Otherwise play may get real slow, not to mention the frustration level of some golfers.
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John K:
I recognize what everyone has said comparing the two courses at Streamsong and probably agree with most of what has been said. However, I probably also agree with you that the courses at Bandon have more distinct personalities.
Yeah, I also think that Kohler is a better place to take the wife than either Streamsong or Bandon.
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Just got back from a trip to SS. First I want to say that everything about the place is spectacular. Both courses are incredible, the clubhouse is a work of art in itself. Our group was pretty split on which course was the favorite. Both have really great holes and a couple of stretches that are as good as in the world.
We all came away saying it was a bit hard to distinguish the courses though. like everyone has said, The Blue course is a bit more subtle and the greens are mostly a bit more wild. The Red is very bold in the use of the features and I actually think it has a couple of the most wild greens.
I don't think this is a knock at all though. Both courses are intertwined and almost does play as one 36 hole course. I think it's a fantastic features and getting to see multiple holes from each course during both rounds just help build anticipation and sense of socialness.
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I just returned from Streamsong and was thrilled to see how different the courses are from each other.
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I just returned from Streamsong and was thrilled to see how different the courses are from each other.
Were you expecting this?
Could you do a twitter-style, 140 characters or less description of each that would describe how different they are?
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Loved Streamsong. My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon. Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld.
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Bogey
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Loved Streamsong. My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon. Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld.
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Bogey
How about wood burning fireplace vs gas logs?
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Loved Streamsong. My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon. Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld.
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Bogey
How about wood burning fireplace vs gas logs?
They both get the job done, no?
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Loved Streamsong. My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon. Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld.
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Bogey
How about wood burning fireplace vs gas logs?
They both get the job done, no?
Yes, of course! I'm a fan of both of your examples as well.
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Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong?
I heard a story this last weekend about 4 guys who were playing at Streamsong and asked their caddie to take a group photo of them. Then later on in the round they all four reach into their golf bags and proceed to change into different golf shirts and again ask to have a group photo taken. Later on, the same thing again - another new shirt, another new pic... As the story goes, they played the one round and then took off for Las Vegas, planning to send these pics to their wives as if they were on a multi-day golf trip to Streamsong!
Dastardly! Divorce is expensive. They could ask me...
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Loved Streamsong. My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon. Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld.
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Bogey
Love the Franklin to Disney reference...Franklin all day long.
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Disney rarely punches you in the mouth before check out. I do not understand the point of the first hole on the Red course being so difficult in such a boring way. I'm playing, as I think many will, with a group of high handicappers who are just beginning on what they were hoping to be a pleasant journey and end up meeting up on the green looking like we had just completed a tour of Fallujah. Thank God it was February or otherwise I would recommend taking a change of shirt for the second tee. This of course can be solved by scheduling your first round on the Blue where after a climb to the top of Space Mountain you at least are given the opportunity to get to know your companions in an inviting manner.
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It would be great if Mark Saltzmann or Brad Klein were to write a book about the building of the two courses at this resort. I guarantee at least one sale.
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I don't know about books on golf but I would like to read about their skeet shooting vision. I shot for the first and last time in the middle of a golf trip. From what I can tell the shooting facility is going to be world class.
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From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course.
Is this an incorrect assumption? Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality? How do other multiple course facilities compare?
JakaB,
Would you say that each of the holes at Sebonack, NGLA, Shinnecock and Southampton could seamlessly fit on the other courses ?
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From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course.
Is this an incorrect assumption? Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality? How do other multiple course facilities compare?
JakaB,
Would you say that each of the holes at Sebonack, NGLA, Shinnecock and Southampton could seamlessly fit on the other courses ?
Pat,
The quote you pulled from me was from before I had played Streamsong. Now that I have I believe that each course has a distinct personality where no hole from any one course would fit seamlessly onto the other. I have even come to the conclusion that people like me who have played to many courses by the same architects lose the charm of each course as they all start to look alike. Minimalism morphs into duplicitism. Sadly, quite boring from a discovery standpoint but still fun to play. That being said the Blue course did a much better job of showing me something new.
As far as the courses you mention goes I have not played, or plan to play, any. My opinion based on pictures is obviously flawed as indicated in this thread. My guess of an answer would be no.
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JK,
How many rounds did you get in and what was the breakdown of Red vs. Blue?
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JK,
How many rounds did you get in and what was the breakdown of Red vs. Blue?
I played one round on each and shot skeet between the two. I would play the Blue course eight times for every two of the Red. I am seriously pissed at the arrogance of the first hole on the Red. I'm playing with a perfectly charming older man from the up tees who hits a solid drive and arrives to his ball in an up mood. He asks the caddie if he carries a range finder and the caddie says "Yea, two in my skull, you can't get there." I walk over to a sprinkler head and tell my friend that he has 290 to the hole. This does not set the mood for an enjoyable day. It's a resort not a lecture hall on half par theory.
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If planning a SS trip with a group, certainly start the first round on the Bue. Much more user friendly.
Plus, you can blame the double bogey on Red #1 on the burger and black and tan onion rings (yum!)
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I'm very eager to go back but I find myself mostly agreeing with JK. I found Blue to be a much more interesting test.
This about sums it up for me: I walked away thinking that there were some phenomenal holes Blue that I couldn't really imagine on Red; and there were some poor holes on Red that I couldn't really imagine on Blue.
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I agree that the opening hole on RED is a difficult start, but felt the second hole was a fairly easy par 5.
It got me right back on track.
I would prefer the BLUE everytime - as a whole - and the first hole is a much better hole to get your round off to a good start.
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From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course.
Is this an incorrect assumption? Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality? How do other multiple course facilities compare?
JakaB,
Would you say that each of the holes at Sebonack, NGLA, Shinnecock and Southampton could seamlessly fit on the other courses ?
Pat,
The quote you pulled from me was from before I had played Streamsong. Now that I have I believe that each course has a distinct personality where no hole from any one course would fit seamlessly onto the other. I have even come to the conclusion that people like me who have played to many courses by the same architects lose the charm of each course as they all start to look alike. Minimalism morphs into duplicitism. Sadly, quite boring from a discovery standpoint but still fun to play. That being said the Blue course did a much better job of showing me something new.
As far as the courses you mention goes I have not played, or plan to play, any. My opinion based on pictures is obviously flawed as indicated in this thread. My guess of an answer would be no.
OK, I'll give you another guess ;D ;D
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"It's a resort not a lecture hall on half par theory."
You're like a hobbit, JK - we can learn all there is to know about you in a month, but then you keep surprising us. Terrific phrase (though whether it's true or not I don't know). Even 100 monkeys typing for a hundred years couldn't have come up with it; I know I couldn't.
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Played both the same day back in October. For me, I thought they played a lot differently. Once you realized how severe the greens were, the Blue, the Doak course, really kind of got into your head about where you might miss shots coming in. The greens themselves were fun. I'll echo the sentiment, whether it is actually true or not, I felt like I had more room off the tee on the Blue and had to be more accurate with the second. Because the greens were not as severe on the Red, it seemed like you could get away with a little more coming into those greens. I felt like the fairway bunkers came into play a little more off the Red tees. But then again, that may have been because it was my second round and I had four hours sleep after drinking bourbon and smoking cigars with Rocky Patel the night before, but that part of it is off thread.
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I played one round on each and shot skeet between the two. I would play the Blue course eight times for every two of the Red.
Well now you really pissed off Whitaker and Petey too! I agree with you, but that stretch of holes from, I think, 4-10 on The Red may be the best on the complex.
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How close is the Biarritz to Yale?
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How close is the Biarritz to Yale?
I was not a fan of that C&C Steamsong hole (#16, I think) but I can't hit a cut for the life of me. As Tom Doak documented last summer/fall there is no way that a modern architect would build Yale today and #9 at Yale is in the Top 3 on that list of Yale holes that are absurd, but great. I feel like the C&C Biarritz at SS demands a cut unless you play it from the shorter tees which are left/west of the back tees. Basically another lecture in half-par if you play it from the back two tees.
Also thought the #17 Red drive was VERY awkward, but loved #18. Thought the holes from say 11-15 were very good to great on The Red but as you mention, I am down there on vacation and too many long 1/2 par holes gets tiresome.
Jeez, I am friends with Pat Mucci and Jaka so that puts me on a short list of maybe 2-4 people in the universe, so how much should my opinion count in terms of weird golf holes?
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You are fortunate to have your opinions not count irrespective of your friends.
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I played the Red from the silver and the Blue from the black. I guess I got lucky because the 16th on the Red played straight away at about 195 to a back pin. I drew one in and my friend faded one in both to six feet. Don't get uncomfortable but standing on that tee I thought about you and my missed opportunities to play Yale. To boot, my caddie on the Blue was from Garden City and loves "Mr. Mucci".
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You are fortunate to have your opinions not count irrespective of your friends.
Did you finally play a course North of Merion last Fall? New England?
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You are fortunate to have your opinions not count irrespective of your friends.
Did you finally play a course North of Merion last Fall? New England?
I'm not sure there are any worth playing north of Merion. At least not any that are better than Merion :)
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To boot, my caddie on the Blue was from Garden City and loves "Mr. Mucci".
In my business life, I have someone who refers to some guy from Jersey as Mr. XYZ and me and my partner are just "Mike and Frenchie". Really pisses me off :)
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You are fortunate to have your opinions not count irrespective of your friends.
Did you finally play a course North of Merion last Fall? New England?
I'm not sure there are any worth playing north of Merion. At least not any that are better than Merion :)
(https://www.natgolflinks.org/SiteDesign/SplashImages/splashImage_3.aspx)
Michigan State must be so proud of you....
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Well, at least I haven't turned my back on my roots, Philly boy.