Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Jud_T on December 20, 2012, 06:20:52 AM
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Not sure if this has been posted yet. An interesting list even if the bench wasn't very deep this year...
http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/best-new-golf-courses-2012
Anybody know anything about Twineagles (Eagle)?
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Couple things I noticed:
1. Hawtree was mentioned as archie of the year, but there was absolutely nothing on his hiring for TOC. ???
2. Joe Passov Trump National was considered superior to the Streamsong courses. It'll be interesting to see where they fit in future rankings.
3. While Hawtree may have been Passov's archie of the year, I couldn't help but notice the number of times Coore and Crenshaw were mentioned. They earned best course you can play honors (Streamsong), Honorable mention for that title (Bandon Preserve), and honorable mention for best international course (Shanqin Bay). And we must not forget Cabot Cliffs being mentioned. Maybe it's because Hawtree's new to the states, but I would think with that kind of list Bill Coore has to be the best architect of the year.
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Shooter showed me the original Twin Eagles course.
If the judging was based on improvement over the previous unopened version, anyone could have won that award.
Try the google earth history options to see the previous version.
It looks like they just filled in lots of crazy bunkers.
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Wow, this article is notable for several reasons.
First, Trump beats out Cabot Links and Shanqin Bay. I can't imagine many of us would agree with that (if we can manage to see all 3). Nothing in the description of Trump International makes me eager to see it; it's long, hard, and pretty. It could be a good course, but I'm not seeing what makes it the course of the year.
Second, I believe this is the first time we've seen a public statement that one course at Streamsong is better than the other ("by an eyelash"). Personally, I look forward to the debate about which course is better, but I really hope these courses aren't used to compare the merits and careers of the architectural teams. The routing was a team effort, so even if one course is generally viewed as better, that shouldn't take away from the entire project and it shouldn't be used as evidence that one team did a better job than the other.
Is the article correct in saying the the greens on the Red course are bigger? I've heard the exact opposite, although perhaps the greens on the Red course feel bigger because they are subtler whereas the undulations on the Blue course's greens might make them feel smaller. Also, it is fair to say that the Red course is more dramatic? Maybe that's true from a bird's eye view, but supposedly the bunkers and greens on the Blue are more dramatic than those on the Red, so the courses are just dramatic in different ways. Personally, I can't wait to find out for myself in a couple weeks!
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I watched some of the LPGA event at TwinEagles. The course looked great (well great for Florida). There were a few template holes. Very Raynor-esqe.
This is the hole descriptions - which does not do the course justice. http://www.twineagles.com/the-golf/eagle-hole-descriptions/
The fun hole that was on TV was the 16 which was driveable depending on the wind.
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The renovation at Twin Eagles does not look like it changed any of the holes, just the surfaces.
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Streamsong Red
Streamsong Blue
Bandon Preserve
Trump Scotland
Cabot Links
These are my kind of courses....glad to see this!
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"UK's "Open doctor"", pass me the barf bag
love C&C
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If I prefer Trump to the courses at Streamsong, I will eat my hat. One thing: by F&F at Streamsong, are we talking what Seminole achieve? Won't that entail some browness and will those types of conditions appeal to the retail golfer?
Brian,
Unless they're overseeding at Streamsong, there'll be browness.
It gets a bit nippy at night in inland central Florida.
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Come on, no matter how much you love one architect over the other you can not choose an industrial reclamation site in Florida over some of the most pristine natural dunescape in Scotland. Scotland wins, Scotland wins, it's nothing personal.
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Come on, no matter how much you love one architect over the other you can not choose an industrial reclamation site in Florida over some of the most pristine natural dunescape in Scotland. Scotland wins, Scotland wins, it's nothing personal.
Never thought I'd prefer Florida to "natural dunescape", but in this case I'm willing to go with Florida, particularly Dec-March.
In Scotland there are hundreds of attractive alternatives, in Florida, not so much ::)
Throw in the fact there are two courses at Streamsong and it's a slam dunk.
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Come on, no matter how much you love one architect over the other you can not choose an industrial reclamation site in Florida over some of the most pristine natural dunescape in Scotland. Scotland wins, Scotland wins, it's nothing personal.
Never thought I'd prefer Florida to "natural dunescape", but in this case I'm willing to go with Florida, particularly Dec-March.
In Scotland there are hundreds of attractive alternatives, in Florida, not so much ::)
Throw in the fact there are two courses at Streamsong and it's a slam dunk.
A new rating criteria...Stalk in the Dark.
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Come on, no matter how much you love one architect over the other you can not choose an industrial reclamation site in Florida over some of the most pristine natural dunescape in Scotland. Scotland wins, Scotland wins, it's nothing personal.
no matter the architect, it's location, location, location....not that if given the chance, I would ever hire Hawtree except for politics and to get it approved...maybe he didn't even design it but was just the name needed in GB
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Connor - Martin Hawtree's first course in the USA was in 1976.
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Connor - Martin Hawtree's first course in the USA was in 1976.
Mark,
I was not aware that his first course was built in 1976 in the US, but my point was that most people in the US are just beginning to learn about Hawtree, as Passov mentioned in this article.
Come on, no matter how much you love one architect over the other you can not choose an industrial reclamation site in Florida over some of the most pristine natural dunescape in Scotland. Scotland wins, Scotland wins, it's nothing personal.
John, by that logic, we should strongly prefer Erin Hills to Streamsong or Chambers Bay. We're all speculating based on reputations which course will be better, but using location as an excuse for making it course of the year is a bit ridiculous. I'm not saying that Streamsong is better than Trump's course, but we shouldn't be making predictions based on quality of site or location.
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Brian,
Unless they're overseeding at Streamsong, there'll be browness.
It gets a bit nippy at night in inland central Florida.
Jeff:
The plan is not to overseed. It's not warm at night in January and February, but the resort is just down the road from Frostproof. From what we've seen over the past couple of years we don't expect it to go dormant for too long ... enough to go a bit tan but not completely lose its color. Of course, if there's a really cold year, who knows?
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Come on, no matter how much you love one architect over the other you can not choose an industrial reclamation site in Florida over some of the most pristine natural dunescape in Scotland. Scotland wins, Scotland wins, it's nothing personal.
It's business. Your B-I-L is no dummy.
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Brian,
Unless they're overseeding at Streamsong, there'll be browness.
It gets a bit nippy at night in inland central Florida.
Jeff:
The plan is not to overseed. It's not warm at night in January and February, but the resort is just down the road from Frostproof. From what we've seen over the past couple of years we don't expect it to go dormant for too long ... enough to go a bit tan but not completely lose its color. Of course, if there's a really cold year, who knows?
That's good to hear.
As you know though bermuda doesn't need "Frost" to go dormant.
Even Doral, which is WAAAY warmer than Frostproof, had a bit of Jan/Feb dormancy the 10 years I was there.
But the reality is I'm sure the course will look and play better with a slight bit of tan
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Brian,
Unless they're overseeding at Streamsong, there'll be browness.
It gets a bit nippy at night in inland central Florida.
My home course doesn't overseed in Orlando and it doesnt get too brown.
My first winter here 07-08, I only turned my heat on 4 nights.
The next winter it got cold A LOT. Two one-week spans in the 20s and 30s at night.
So it's pretty variable. I expect some winters will be browner than others.
I hope that the clientele understands the merits of brown and the owners won't have to reseed for appearances and to drive traffic.
I'm anxious for my first visit.
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The renovation at Twin Eagles does not look like it changed any of the holes, just the surfaces.