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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Tim Liddy on October 15, 2012, 08:10:45 PM

Title: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Tim Liddy on October 15, 2012, 08:10:45 PM
It looks like Tom will be busy.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7821993/Maori-land-sold-for-golf-course
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Dane Hawker on October 15, 2012, 08:46:04 PM
Looking forward to the course actually. It can be played in a day trip from Auckland so should do well. I hear it will be full fescue which will be interesting in the humid climate.

More info (including drawings) http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/201242/TeArai.pdf (http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/201242/TeArai.pdf)

17th looks awesome with Hen Island in the background
It wont have the views of Cape Kidnappers or Kauri Cliffs but can it rival them in the rankings?
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Tom_Doak on October 15, 2012, 09:53:14 PM
Tim:

Busy?  We are only trying to work on four continents simultaneously, with projects underway in New Zealand, China, France, and at Medinah.  Frazzled would be more accurate.

I've mentioned a few times here that we had a new project in New Zealand.  As I'm sure you understand, though, I've had to keep vague about the details while our client was actually getting official permission to own the land and develop the property.  Happily, it's official now.

The land in question is sandy ground along the beach about an hour and a half north of Auckland, on the east coast.  It is not as dramatic as Cape Kidnappers [nothing is!] but underneath the pine plantation there are some very nice linksy contours being uncovered and a bit of drama as well.  The ground makes a series of steps back away from the beachfront, so that every hole will have unobstructed views of the ocean and of the islands off the coast, with the highest holes rising to about 25 meters at the back end of the property.

I'm headed down there the first of November, and maybe can bring back some pictures of what it looks like with most of the trees cleared.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Josh Tarble on October 15, 2012, 10:02:25 PM
How close is this to the Bay of Islands area?
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Michael Goldstein on October 15, 2012, 11:18:10 PM
Well done and welcome to NZ Mr and Mrs Kayne.


 
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Jeff_Mingay on October 16, 2012, 12:02:11 AM
Always nice to have a client with assets of $18b ;)

Go get 'em, Renaissance Golf...
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Ash Towe on October 16, 2012, 01:39:05 AM
Piece on national tv news tonight about the development.

Nothing that could be added to the above.

The site did appear to have some some spectacular views.  There was an implication that play would be allowed on a similar basis to Kauri Cliffs and Cape Kidnappers.  I could easily be wrong on the last point.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on October 16, 2012, 02:17:55 AM
Q: Who can play at the golf course?

A: The golf course will be privately owned and controlled. A club will be formed with membership rules. In
general, the only people who will be entitled to play at the new course will be members and their guests.


Great. Another private enclave for the super-rich.

Just what the world needs...


Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: John Kirk on October 16, 2012, 02:21:48 AM
Congratulations, Tom!

Sounds like a very nice piece of land, and here's to hoping the frazzle quotient is kept under control.

Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Steve Lapper on October 16, 2012, 06:05:46 AM
  Tom,

  Congrats on making it official!! :D

  I know Ric and he's a very decent fellow. We've played together a few times in LA and share a very good mutual friend. Ric wakes up every morning with one of the best views in all of golf!!  His love and passion for the game is matched only by his business savvy and success.

  Those of you who immediately trash this as another "private enclave for the rich" are likely far off base. While I don't at all know the specifics, I'm confident Ric will adopt some model that will allow for access and public play. Let's not forget it's Ric's dime that makes this a golf course, instead of remaining a pine tree plantation.

  Ric long ago mentioned this project to me and was really excited about this. I look forward to having yet another reason t travel to my second favorite country on this planet.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on October 16, 2012, 08:31:14 AM

  Those of you who immediately trash this as another "private enclave for the rich" are likely far off base.

I hope so.

To persuade an indiginous people to sell their birthright in order to build a golf course to which no kind of public access was allowed would be regrettable on so many levels...

Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Mark McKeever on October 16, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
Tom,

It sounds like a great piece of property.  Looking forward to the pictures upon your return.

Mark
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Carl Nichols on October 16, 2012, 12:15:53 PM

  Those of you who immediately trash this as another "private enclave for the rich" are likely far off base.

I hope so.

To persuade an indiginous people to sell their birthright in order to build a golf course to which no kind of public access was allowed would be regrettable on so many levels...



Unless you have some evidence that they were somehow coerced, why shouldn't the indigenous people be allowed to make whatever decision they think is in their best interests--especially when "The hapu said it offered the land sale to the Department of Conservation and the Auckland Regional Council, who both declined it"?  Perhaps they have decided that the money and jobs will increase their standard of living.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Dane Hawker on October 16, 2012, 01:52:52 PM

  Those of you who immediately trash this as another "private enclave for the rich" are likely far off base.



To persuade an indiginous people to sell their birthright in order to build a golf course to which no kind of public access was allowed would be regrettable on so many levels...



Wasnt quite like that at all. They were gifted the land recently on grievances from the 1800's then sold it for money.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Tom_Doak on October 16, 2012, 04:22:58 PM
In fact, the Maori council have been shopping this land for some time, after being advised that golf was its highest and best use [and after being denied permission to build a very large housing development there].

They still have several more miles of beachfront land for future development [at low density] or possibly more golf [if our project is successful].  Mr. Kayne is putting up his own money to test the waters for them.  So, it's hardly a deal they were conned into.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Will Lozier on October 16, 2012, 11:04:41 PM
Tom,

I assume the dunes just north of the pine forest where the current layout is are off-limits per the Wildlife Preserve designation?  How good is that land and is there enough to lay out another course - in theory at least?

Cheers
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Tom_Doak on October 17, 2012, 06:18:22 AM
Tom,

I assume the dunes just north of the pine forest where the current layout is are off-limits per the Wildlife Preserve designation?  How good is that land and is there enough to lay out another course - in theory at least?

Cheers

Will:

The land north of the site is big, raw dunes ... there is one dune up there that must be 60-70 meters high.  It is a wildlife sanctuary, home to a rare bird, and off limits to any development.  In fact, one of the environmentalists' stated concerns was that clearing the land for a golf course might be attractive to the birds, who would move down to our site, and then somehow be killed by the golf activity!

I've only wandered up onto that site once, and not for very long.  I'm sure it would have been a cool site for golf, with the water on both sides, but I don't spend much time thinking about things that are impossible.  Our site is plenty good.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Howard Riefs on October 17, 2012, 10:49:53 AM
Previous thread about this project includes an couple images, more insight from Tom, etc...

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51651.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51651.0.html)
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Ash Towe on October 17, 2012, 02:04:25 PM
I cannot imagine a person as successful as Mr Kayne not doing his research about how the culture of NZ and NZ golf.

 There are the financial models such as CK and Kauri Cliffs which have been successful and models which have not eg Gulf Harbour and Formosa.  So unless Mr Kayne decides to fund the total operation himself ( which he is clearly able to do ) then there is a chance of some public access. I maybe being knaive and/or optimistic.

Tom: what aspects of the site excite you and what sort of course can we expect? I believe it will not be a championship course.  Are there certain physical features which have to be incorporated into the design?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Tom_Doak on October 17, 2012, 03:06:04 PM
Tom: what aspects of the site excite you and what sort of course can we expect? I believe it will not be a championship course.  Are there certain physical features which have to be incorporated into the design?


Ash:  Mr. Kayne's desire is to build a great golf course for low-handicap players like his friends.  He doesn't seem to care much about the Tour pros, as it's been made apparent from Julian Robertson's projects that the groups who run the New Zealand Open and PGA don't have much interest in taking their events outside Auckland, or occasionally Wellington.

We are excited to be working on +/- 300 acres of sand, that should be in good playable condition all year -- even in winter when many of the courses in Auckland are soggy due to their heavy soils.  Our sense is that the climate is pretty similar to Bandon's, though perhaps a bit warmer in summer, so that the same turf will thrive here and bouncy links conditions will prevail.

There are two great features of the property -- the seafront, which we touch on holes 3, 4, 5, 6, 15, 16, 17 and 18, and a great series of dune ridges around the clubhouse, which are in play on holes 7, 9, 10 and 18.  The natural punchbowl of the 9th green and the plateau/punchbowl of the 18th are two of the coolest green sites I've found.

There are many great holes laying there.  Clearing more than 200 acres of pines and putting it all back together is not the easiest thing we've ever done, but it seems like a good way to spend the northern winter, in the southern summer.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Dane Hawker on October 17, 2012, 03:32:02 PM
The sand there should be an excellent growing medium. We get our greens sand from a nearby plant at Tomarata.
Tom what species will the greens be?
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Ash Towe on October 17, 2012, 03:38:08 PM
Tom,

Thanks very much for the detailed reply.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Michael Goldstein on October 18, 2012, 01:40:59 AM
Tom: the PGA is in Queenstown for the forseeable future. The NZ Open has also been in the South Island for many years straight. 
NZ actually lacks a suitable tournament course near the population base of Auckland (I'm hoping that golfers will nonetheless catch the 1hr flight down to Queenstown this summer but that's another story).

That said, I'm not advocating that Maungawai becomes a tournament course. The site is special and I'm sure it'll be a great addition to the golf offer in NZ - particularly to the tourist.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Dane Hawker on October 19, 2012, 05:46:54 PM
In todays paper

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10841745
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Marty Bonnar on October 19, 2012, 06:08:43 PM
SORRY, but the title of this thread has been doing my head in for days now.
'in Maori'? Eek!
'in New Zealand', 'on Maori land' maybe...?
The Maori being the native NZers of course. Check out a Haka, baby!!!!

?
F.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Colin Macqueen on October 19, 2012, 06:45:28 PM
Te Uri o Hau has sold 230 hectares of their 616 hectare forest at Te Arai beach, near Mangawhai, to American financier and golf enthusiast Ric Kayne.

Marty, Te Arai beach is the place methinks,
Colin
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Jud_T on October 19, 2012, 07:57:43 PM
In bed down under once again with the demon alternative investment community?  ;)  Not sure how excited I am about the target low handicap audience concept, but maybe that's just because I couldn't break 80 if my life depended on it.  At least now the Sebonack members will know where to plan their winter golf...
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Tom_Doak on October 19, 2012, 09:06:57 PM
In bed down under once again with the demon alternative investment community?  ;)  Not sure how excited I am about the target low handicap audience concept, but maybe that's just because I couldn't break 80 if my life depended on it.  At least now the Sebonack members will know where to plan their winter golf...

Jud:

I don't think we're talking about a golf course as hard as Sebonack ... certainly not anywhere near as long ... we might only get to 6700 or 6800 yards at Te Arai, and Ric hasn't said anything about making it very difficult.

Actually, though, Ric Kayne is a member at Sebonack, among other places.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Dane Hawker on October 31, 2012, 07:47:50 PM
For the turfies out there, 6 job positions have been posted for this new course. If you are interested they are on the New Zealand Superintendents website.

www.nzgcsa.org.nz (http://www.nzgcsa.org.nz)
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Tom_Doak on October 31, 2012, 08:29:45 PM
If anyone happens to be in the neighborhood, I am in the Air NZ lounge at LAX this evening, on my way down.  Will be on site November 2-6 seeing if we can make some shaping progress.

Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Dane Hawker on August 28, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
The Auckland and Northland Superintendents Associations held a field day today to walk around the course today.
It was looking fantastic with 5 holes grassed. Can not wait to see the final product!
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: George Freeman on August 29, 2013, 12:02:41 AM
There have to be pictures of this place somewhere, right??
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Dane Hawker on August 29, 2013, 12:44:58 AM
We were asked not to put any pictures online
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Ash Towe on August 29, 2013, 04:52:25 AM
Dane,

How far away would you estimate the finished product is?
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Dane Hawker on August 29, 2013, 02:56:40 PM
There's no talk of any dates or a deadline.The holes that have been seeded are in very good shape. I believe they are to start seeding more next week.
Title: Re: Doak to design course in Maori
Post by: Ash Towe on August 29, 2013, 03:59:04 PM
Thanks Dane.