Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: John Kavanaugh on October 10, 2012, 06:10:05 PM
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Sadly, I must say, I hate most people who golf and wish I didn't. What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
As an example, I play far to slow given that we putt every single putt out to fruition. Not to mention I look horrible in shorts. I would hate me.
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Sadly, I must say, I hate most people who golf and wish I didn't. What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
As an example, I play far to slow given that we putt every single putt out to fruition. Not to mention I look horrible in shorts. I would hate me.
I don't hate you. I had quite the time playing with you at Victoria. And you seemed shocked to know that I knew you had a parent that went to Georgetown.
;) :)
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JK, agree, I do hate you, never did understand the use of the term "people who golf" and even if I did (understand), I hate it anyway. :)
Unfortunately though, I do like you for putting out, I hate people that don't, as it is against the rules of golf. :D
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Hating someone you do not know is not very healthy.
Isn't this an O/T thread?
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It is not OT because I hate whomever restored the bunkers at Cypress pretending they looked like MacKenzie when they are generic Fazio.
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It is not OT because I hate whomever restored the bunkers at Cypress pretending they looked like MacKenzie when they are generic Fazio.
But you profess to love the same desecration at The Riv. That's but one reason to hate you.
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It is not OT because I hate whomever restored the bunkers at Cypress pretending they looked like MacKenzie when they are generic Fazio.
But you profess to love the same desecration at The Riv. That's but one reason to hate you.
You nailed that one. If you hate the whore in LA you may find yourself on an island. I never felt alone there.
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I have a few friends that still wear loudmouth gear. Really?!?
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edit...
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What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
Its not what we do, rather your need to judge courses, behavior etc.
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What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
Its not what we do, rather your need to judge courses, behavior etc.
That hurts considering I like everything about you that I have ever read or experienced. The comp at Erin Hills and my belief that you earned your play at Shadow Creek not withstanding. You know, I'm not proud of the fact that I give golfers who hit the ball more solid than me pass. I know that it does not make them better people but somehow harder to hate.
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Sadly, I must say, I hate most people who golf and wish I didn't. What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
As an example, I play far to slow given that we putt every single putt out to fruition. Not to mention I look horrible in shorts. I would hate me.
Well, then, logic would dictate that you hate us because you really hate yourself.
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When did the noun "golf" become a verb? I really hate that.....
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I hate that I played Victoria and didn't get to meet you. Thought you were part of the standard welcoming committee there? Surprised your name isn't right below Fazio's on the guest bag tag.
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Sadly, I must say, I hate most people who golf and wish I didn't. What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
As an example, I play far to slow given that we putt every single putt out to fruition. Not to mention I look horrible in shorts. I would hate me.
Well, then, logic would dictate that you hate us because you really hate yourself.
Thank you for putting myself in such esteemed company.
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Sadly, I must say, I hate most people who golf and wish I didn't. What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
As an example, I play far to slow given that we putt every single putt out to fruition. Not to mention I look horrible in shorts. I would hate me.
Well, then, logic would dictate that you hate us because you really hate yourself.
That was probably apparent 10,000 posts ago.
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The other evening I went to the range to hit balls to avoid going home before I was served dinner. I picked the spot at the very end assuring myself of at least having no one behind me. A nice fellow soon arrived and chose to pick the area contiguous to mine. I almost didn't hate him until he got the sniffles. Hit, sniff, hit, sniff, sniff hit, hit, sniff. It can't be a coincidence that this stuff only happens to me.
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Hate is a pretty strong word. Rather I'd say I lose a lot of respect for people who throw clubs, smash things with their clubs, curse loudly and frequently...all because they can't or don't hit the golf shots they want to.
Cornering things architects do that make me "hate" them...
Penal for penal sake;
Too much water;
Too much contour on small greens;
Maintenance practices I "hate"...
Too much stimp for the contours;
Too wet;
Watered and lush rough/native/gunch/junk/3rd cut
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What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
Its not what we do, rather your need to judge courses, behavior etc.
That hurts considering I like everything about you that I have ever read or experienced. The comp at Erin Hills and my belief that you earned your play at Shadow Creek not withstanding. You know, I'm not proud of the fact that I give golfers who hit the ball more solid than me pass. I know that it does not make them better people but somehow harder to hate.
Was not meant to hurt, thought you were asking a serous question.
I see now just another insightful stroll into examining how people are, with you/golf as the backdrop.
Is 'Curb your Enthusiasm' a show you like?
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I have a few friends that still wear loudmouth gear. Really?!?
i stopped wearing mine once daly jumped on board. the same reasoning has me no loner wearing my 5 hour energy hat.
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What do you do that makes you hateable?
1. My course is better than your course.
2. I taught you how to cut the line at Shake Shack, and this is upsetting to you as a Midwest goober.
3. You don't know what squash is.
4. I have played Pine Valley and National.
5. I have juice at Merion.
6. Doak and I have a bond through our Cornell connection and you have actually met him, belong to one of his clubs, and yet he still likes me more.
7. I have actually played with Pat Mucci.
8. I took you to Eagle Creek rather than Mountain Lake.
9. I payed retail for Book of Mormon.
10. I have a higher Klout score than Gillette Silver.
;) :D ??? 8)
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You'd might "hate" me because:
1) I have a thick red beard like Yukon Cornelius and I'll hit the ball better than you. ;)
2) I'll hit 12 greens, three-jack from 10 feet three times, and shoot 79...and you'll think "what a shame". :(
3) I "hate" golfers who check where their club is at the top of their swing at any time during a round...and you probably do! ;D
John, don't be such a Monti at the range...although I'd have been selfishly and ridiculously pissed too, tempted to accidentally shank one!
Mac, I've played with you, understand there's no way you can answer the question posed :) and agree with all of your architectural/maintenance "hates". :)
Cheers
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When did the noun "golf" become a verb? I really hate that.....
Can't stand it.
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l'enfer est d'autres golfeurs
is it because I'm pretentious?
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I hate this thread, but Barny is about 50-50 with these things so I don't hate him.
Ciao
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Do golfers outside of America really all get along? What can we learn from you?
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We reap as we sow.
Cheers Colin
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Honi soit qui mal y pense.
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My two bits (taking this literally and personally) even though we don't know each other:
Why YOU hate me:
- You overly enjoyed playing one of the two grouchy old men in the Muppets in your younger days enough so to continue spreading the joy.
- It's simply far more fun to be controversial and play devils advocate pretending to hate almost everything and everyone including me.
- I sympathize with the Europeans and understand that indeed we all do get along.
- The fact that I'm even answering this thread as a newbie who's not yet met you.
- My replies are far too long...
Why I don't hate you (or anyone else or anything else for that matter)
- I've been informed by several of the usual suspects (veterans here) that you are a damn nice guy in person and nothing like your forum persona, or perhaps you just keep it all bottled up for the online rants. Either way I can respect that.
- It's not good to pass judgement on a golfer until you've walked at least 18 with them. Especially if it's on my home course as no guest, regardless of their hcp has yet to break 80 from the tips. That is IMO a true test of a golfers character, getting your butt kicked by a course and still enjoying yourself and being a good partner for your group.
- It's hard for me to imagine that anyone that calls themselves a golfer and has learned to live with the good and bad incidents in a golf round hating anything in life. Should that be the case I'd strongly suggest they go back to the course and examine the relative similarities and how they deal with them. Show me a golfer full of hate and I'll show you someone who finds/has little to no pleasure/respect in this great sport or life in general.
What do I do that makes me hate worthy to the average golfer:
In my small pond here I am a member of the best course in the country by a mile and there with have guaranteed easy access to ALL the other contenders at a reciprocated rate of 30 euro/$38 USD/24 GBP. 5 of these courses are good enough on a world scale to go for US 300 plus/round or more in the US/UK.
Locals might hate me because I host a lot of foreign guests with great joy in doing so yet host very few locals as they just don't have the same respect and appreciation for the game (in general terms) and are far less friendly IMHO.
I've arranged my life to spend more time golfing than working and have this not interfere with family time (divorced as I am). Although I'm not suggesting the latter is a good idea for anyone and I fully accept being broke most of the time as a result. (ok not really on the last part)
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Locals might hate me because I host a lot of foreign guests with great joy in doing so yet host very few locals as they just don't have the same respect and appreciation for the game (in general terms) and are far less friendly IMHO.
How do you determine the level of respect and appreciation for the game of these locals who you are not interested in hosting? What are some examples of their behavior that turns you away from their potential as a golf buddy?
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Is navel gazing facilitated by having a really big navel?
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Locals might hate me because I host a lot of foreign guests with great joy in doing so yet host very few locals as they just don't have the same respect and appreciation for the game (in general terms) and are far less friendly IMHO.
How do you determine the level of respect and appreciation for the game of these locals who you are not interested in hosting? What are some examples of their behavior that turns you away from their potential as a golf buddy?
I didn't say I didn't have any local golf buddies. I do. However, built into my response is 20 years of living in NL and understanding of the culture and it's people although there are always exceptions. Also built in is extensive contact with local golfers and many other factors which are not appropriate for this forum. One such factor I will mention is the fact that no matter how many times (generally speaking) you invite a Dutch person/family over for say dinner at your house, this will rarely ever be reciprocated. I'm not saying that's why you invite someone but try it in any other country and I've lived in 6 myself and travelled to and have friends in a few others.
That's just one small example, it's not the rule per se however, ask a 1000 expats and you will get that answer more times than not.
I guess the other big point is, someone needs to be pretty enthusiastic about golf to make the trip to NL, in fact, I've never hosted anyone that hasn't been from my recollection, not saying I wouldn't however, as a the right beautiful lady could talk me into just about anything and has on many occasions. But I digress, and you asked for examples. I've given one and that's a big one to be honest.
I've also had many locals be disrespectful to our course policies, specific examples include, ignoring the "no telephone usage" in the clubhouse rule, smoking and dropping their cigarette/cigar remains on the course and having to ask them to clean it up, not replacing divots or fixing ball marks and not being pleasant company due to how poorly they believe they are playing, not realizing the course is simply very tough and the list goes on. As mentioned I've never once had any experience of the sort from a guest I hosted from abroad.
Maybe that's just normal and perhaps the same anywhere. International borders due a lot to weeding out the type of people that would make the trip all the way to a place like NL. I'll consider myself lucky again.
Does that make sense and answer your question?
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I don't think I hate any more golfers than I do non-golfers. Still, I have to admit that there's a weird vibe that a lot of them give off, and it's the same vibe that I get from people who played point guard on a team their father coached growing up. It sort of feels like I'm with someone who's trying to act the part of a "frat boy" in an extremely serious network drama but with a healthy and unspoken dose of need for acceptance just under the surface. This is why I play most of my golf with football players who grew up in the inner city. Well, that and the fact that if I hit into someone the victim usually feels compelled to apologize to me for not playing more quickly when he sees how large our group is.
I also quietly judge anyone who doesn't take their hat off inside, and smirk a bit to myself every time I do it. The size of the smirk is inversely proportional to the quality and cost of the course.
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What do you do that makes you hateable? What do architects do that make them hateable too?
Its not what we do, rather your need to judge courses, behavior etc.
That hurts considering ...........
Does that mean I won't see you at the pancake social tomorrow?
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What do you do that makes you hateable?
I spray the ball off the tee and criticize the architect for not giving me enough width.
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1. I'll accept a comp without remorse.
2. I'm fat and can't keep my shirt-tail in.
3. I am not competitive at all.
4. I am self-righteous.
5. In my embarrassment I apologize for poor shots.
6. I am a Democrat.
7. I am still uncomfortable at nice clubs (see #6)
8. I can be a bogus pollyanna.
9. Rich Choi owns me.
10.I think I'm funny.
Hey you don't know me if you don't like me.
You say you care less how I feel.
How many of you who'd sit and judge me
Have walked the streets of Bakersfield.
- Buck and Dwight
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Locals might hate me because I host a lot of foreign guests with great joy in doing so yet host very few locals as they just don't have the same respect and appreciation for the game (in general terms) and are far less friendly IMHO.
How do you determine the level of respect and appreciation for the game of these locals who you are not interested in hosting? What are some examples of their behavior that turns you away from their potential as a golf buddy?
I didn't say I didn't have any local golf buddies. I do. However, built into my response is 20 years of living in NL and understanding of the culture and it's people although there are always exceptions. Also built in is extensive contact with local golfers and many other factors which are not appropriate for this forum. One such factor I will mention is the fact that no matter how many times (generally speaking) you invite a Dutch person/family over for say dinner at your house, this will rarely ever be reciprocated. I'm not saying that's why you invite someone but try it in any other country and I've lived in 6 myself and travelled to and have friends in a few others.
That's just one small example, it's not the rule per se however, ask a 1000 expats and you will get that answer more times than not.
I guess the other big point is, someone needs to be pretty enthusiastic about golf to make the trip to NL, in fact, I've never hosted anyone that hasn't been from my recollection, not saying I wouldn't however, as a the right beautiful lady could talk me into just about anything and has on many occasions. But I digress, and you asked for examples. I've given one and that's a big one to be honest.
I've also had many locals be disrespectful to our course policies, specific examples include, ignoring the "no telephone usage" in the clubhouse rule, smoking and dropping their cigarette/cigar remains on the course and having to ask them to clean it up, not replacing divots or fixing ball marks and not being pleasant company due to how poorly they believe they are playing, not realizing the course is simply very tough and the list goes on. As mentioned I've never once had any experience of the sort from a guest I hosted from abroad.
Maybe that's just normal and perhaps the same anywhere. International borders due a lot to weeding out the type of people that would make the trip all the way to a place like NL. I'll consider myself lucky again.
Does that make sense and answer your question?
David,
The only thing that doesn't make sense is that you said "Why I don't hate you (or anyone else or anything else for that matter)" in your first post. I can't argue with anything else you said above and regret to admit that I have many of the same feelings about other people as you. If I have any regret as a golfer it is that I do not have the patience to host all the fine people in my life that would enjoy a great round of golf. It is pure selfishness on my part. What else could it be to get pissed off about such petty crap.
It is always easier to host a stranger, especially when walking. What is really difficult is developing friendships with golfers that last over a weekly game for any long period of time. That takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.
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What is really difficult is developing friendships with golfers that last over a weekly game for any long period of time. That takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.
Ok here I would not agree, as we have the choice to pick these people from friends and members of our clubs etc. I don't see any sacrifice involved although perhaps patience is in some circumstances. I'm extremely patient so that's not an issue but my patience has never been tested in that sense. As for as understanding, not sure I'm with you there either. Understanding of what? I imagine this is something that I would assume goes without saying. I don't find it difficult to get along with people and am rarely annoyed by others, when I am it's always of interest to me. That often says more about me than about them, so I attempt to turn it into a learning experience when this does happen and if it's annoying enough I just take note to avoid it if possible in the future.
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What is really difficult is developing friendships with golfers that last over a weekly game for any long period of time. That takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.
Ok here I would not agree, as we have the choice to pick these people from friends and members of our clubs etc. I don't see any sacrifice involved although perhaps patience is in some circumstances. I'm extremely patient so that's not an issue but my patience has never been tested in that sense. As for as understanding, not sure I'm with you there either. Understanding of what? I imagine this is something that I would assume goes without saying. I don't find it difficult to get along with people and am rarely annoyed by others, when I am it's always of interest to me. That often says more about me than about them, so I attempt to turn it into a learning experience when this does happen and if it's annoying enough I just take note to avoid it if possible in the future.
David,
Have you ever had a regular foresome where you compete against each other week after week? The rules of golf alone are built to destroy relationships. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to pay off a friend on a bet when you knew before the match ever began that he doesn't know or care how to properly take a drop at a lateral hazard? You can laugh it off once or twice but after ten years or so a guy is eventually gonna blow up.
Now if you just play rake and run and support each other in the lie about your skill level have at it. That isn't a golf buddy, it's a mistress.
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At least part of the Midwest must be getting some rain, finally.
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At least part of the Midwest must be getting some rain, finally.
The problem is that I made it rain last night and posted drunk again. Sometime very early this morning I woke up and tried to save the thread by focusing how we judge others that is what preventing the growth of the game over any other factor. I think David has been a big help in making this point.
I fully understand that my problems with other golfers lie 100% at my feet. I just don't believe that I am the only angry golfer out there.
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The other evening I went to the range to hit balls to avoid going home before I was served dinner. I picked the spot at the very end assuring myself of at least having no one behind me. A nice fellow soon arrived and chose to pick the area contiguous to mine. I almost didn't hate him until he got the sniffles. Hit, sniff, hit, sniff, sniff hit, hit, sniff. It can't be a coincidence that this stuff only happens to me.
One of the most aggravating experiences I've ever had with golf happened a dozen years ago when I went to a deserted practice green to work on my putting. There were at least 15 holes cut into this very large practice green, but soon after I began putting, another guy showed up and began putting at the hole I was putting to. So I moved, and he again putted to the hole I was putting to. I moved again. This time he putted at the hole I was standing next to and his first putt hit me in the foot. I looked up at the guy and said, "Can't you putt to a different hole?" and he replies something to the effect of, "Geez, are you a grouch."
I almost always experience self-loathing when I become grouchy playing golf, but not that time.
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1. I'm a poser
2. I'm from Pennsylvania
3. I expect to hit good shots every time
4. I wear logo'd shirts from other clubs
5. I can make putts
6. I pimp my home course
7. I'm good friends with 007
8. I get up and down a lot
9. I'm a "homer"
10. I like Merion
Mark
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The other evening I went to the range to hit balls to avoid going home before I was served dinner. I picked the spot at the very end assuring myself of at least having no one behind me. A nice fellow soon arrived and chose to pick the area contiguous to mine. I almost didn't hate him until he got the sniffles. Hit, sniff, hit, sniff, sniff hit, hit, sniff. It can't be a coincidence that this stuff only happens to me.
One of the most aggravating experiences I've ever had with golf happened a dozen years ago when I went to a deserted practice green to work on my putting. There were at least 15 holes cut into this very large practice green, but soon after I began putting, another guy showed up and began putting at the hole I was putting to. So I moved, and he again putted to the hole I was putting to. I moved again. This time he putted at the hole I was standing next to and his first putt hit me in the foot. I looked up at the guy and said, "Can't you putt to a different hole?" and he replies something to the effect of, "Geez, are you a grouch."
I almost always experience self-loathing when I become grouchy playing golf, but not that time.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I knew it couldn't just be me.
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You hate me because I play too fast! I also get mad when more than one person in the group says "Gee Cory you sure don't take a lot of time" as if I'm not aware of that fact?
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I almost always experience self-loathing when I become grouchy playing golf, but not that time.
... until the guy started making a bunch of putts!
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You hate me because I play too fast! I also get mad when more than one person in the group says "Gee Cory you sure don't take a lot of time" as if I'm not aware of that fact?
That is true. Because of people like you (fast) and me (slow) the pace of play problem will never be solved on anything short of an empty course. I understand that I am the only slow playing cart baller on this site but I have plenty of brethren who hate the rake and run crowd as much as you hate us card and pencil types. I just want everyone to be able to play as fast as they want to play not being dictated to by those either in front or behind them.
One thing that I do ask before ever making a tee time is to ask both who is in front of my group and who is behind us. More people could do the same instead of only focusing on who is in front.
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I hate myself for reading (very briefly) the drivel in this thread. I expect to get over it quickly.
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I'm going to start raising my arms to get the pretend crowd to cheer on the first tee when I'm getting ready to tee off. I'm also going to start screaming like Ian Poulter when I make putts.
Every day is the Ryder Cup for me.
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Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Tony - As a motto on a national flag, the above is fascinating. Years ago (I can't remember why) I tried to figure out the different ways it could be understood. I think I gave up after five or six. Sir Gawain the the Green Knights live on, non?
Bob
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David,
Have you ever had a regular foresome where you compete against each other week after week? The rules of golf alone are built to destroy relationships. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to pay off a friend on a bet when you knew before the match ever began that he doesn't know or care how to properly take a drop at a lateral hazard? You can laugh it off once or twice but after ten years or so a guy is eventually gonna blow up.
Now if you just play rake and run and support each other in the lie about your skill level have at it. That isn't a golf buddy, it's a mistress.
John,
No I have not had this and honestly it sounds like a form of masochism. Don't get me wrong I'm all for various forms of masochism, I go out on a course as much as I can that kicks my butt all the time so clearly I'm game for that. However, I don't golf on a regular day like that and I don't and would not play week in and week out with someone that got on my nerves. Plus I would also call something like that if we were betting on money. I don't claim to be a rules expert but one of my friends and members of my club who recently joined GCA is a European Tour Referee. I welcome having someone like that along, plus I don't play with anyone at the level I would be betting that has an excuse not to at least have an idea of the rules (all of my regular playing partners are low single hcp'ers and guys from my competition team). I find the rules complicated at best but still want to play by them even if they seem unfair. In Portland a couple weeks ago I teamed up with Pete Pittock who is also a rules official, that was great as in one situation I honestly had no idea of where to drop. As my ball went into this creek that had yellow stakes. I can't remember ever hitting into that type of hazard before, red yes, but not yellow. I was happy he knew all the rules.
So the case that you are explaining is just not something I'd get myself into. That being said I have a very good friend, who doesn't even have a registered hcp, has no clue of the rules but in terms of pure playing is a serious golfer with about a 4 hcp yet he deems it ok from time to time to give his ball a nudge to improve the lie, when he misses the fairway which is rarely. This is similar to your point. I would never bet him anything and I don't play with him as much either due to this. He's still a friend and would be and has been the first to help me if and when I needed it.
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I don't think I hate any more golfers than I do non-golfers. Still, I have to admit that there's a weird vibe that a lot of them give off, and it's the same vibe that I get from people who played point guard on a team their father coached growing up. It sort of feels like I'm with someone who's trying to act the part of a "frat boy" in an extremely serious network drama but with a healthy and unspoken dose of need for acceptance just under the surface. This is why I play most of my golf with football players who grew up in the inner city. Well, that and the fact that if I hit into someone the victim usually feels compelled to apologize to me for not playing more quickly when he sees how large our group is.
I also quietly judge anyone who doesn't take their hat off inside, and smirk a bit to myself every time I do it. The size of the smirk is inversely proportional to the quality and cost of the course.
Funny, strange post.
1. My clubs click in my bag. A lot.
2. I'm very curious, ask lots of questions, and I talk way too much, unless we're playing for something that, in my opinion, is worth being quiet and concentrating on.
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What is really difficult is developing friendships with golfers that last over a weekly game for any long period of time. That takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.
David,
Have you ever had a regular foresome where you compete against each other week after week? The rules of golf alone are built to destroy relationships. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to pay off a friend on a bet when you knew before the match ever began that he doesn't know or care how to properly take a drop at a lateral hazard? You can laugh it off once or twice but after ten years or so a guy is eventually gonna blow up.
Now if you just play rake and run and support each other in the lie about your skill level have at it. That isn't a golf buddy, it's a mistress.
John,
Medal play is an "ugly American" habit. The game was invented with the notion of playing a match. Stop playing medal golf. Play a match against someone, or play in a four-ball match. You'll hate less, have more fun...and play faster.
TS
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John,
1. I will not be helping you find your lost ball.
2. I will not be admiring your shots nor congratulating you for your fine play.
3. I will not be stopping at the turn.
4. I will be walking far in front of you while you take forever to play.
5. I will not be giving you any putts, of any length, ever.
6. I will give you accurate rulings, even when you don't like them.
7. I will insist that you post your real score.
8. I will not engage in convoluted betting games.
9. I will probably be leaving the club immediately after the round.
10. I will likely be available tomorrow for more of the same.
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Ted,
You have played Victoria National enough to know that losing a ball does not guarantee a loss of hole even in match play. Have you ever seen two good friends in a rules dispute? For no other reason than the rules being too complicated it can end friendships. When you tell a guy that his ball did not cross a hazard 200 yds up the fairway you are not calling him a cheater. You're calling him something, I'm not ever sure what, but not quite a cheater. Not quite.
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John,
1. I will not be helping you find your lost ball.
2. I will not be admiring your shots nor congratulating you for your fine play.
3. I will not be stopping at the turn.
4. I will be walking far in front of you while you take forever to play.
5. I will not be giving you any putts, of any length, ever.
6. I will give you accurate rulings, even when you don't like them.
7. I will insist that you post your real score.
8. I will not engage in convoluted betting games.
9. I will probably be leaving the club immediately after the round.
10. I will likely be available tomorrow for more of the same.
Those are pretty much the rules me and my friends play by with the exception of getting beers at the turn and after the round while we settle our convoluted betting games. I really enjoy the not looking for lost balls rule.
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.....because I am a Golf Course Superintendent.....
and am educated, well compensated, and very professional.....
Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI
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Harvey Penick wrote a book about this so everyone on this site is my friend.
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Funny, strange post.
1. My clubs click in my bag. A lot.
2. I'm very curious, ask lots of questions, and I talk way too much, unless we're playing for something that, in my opinion, is worth being quiet and concentrating on.
I can't really say I agree with this statement. I know far bigger blabber mouths.
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John,
1. I will not be helping you find your lost ball.
2. I will not be admiring your shots nor congratulating you for your fine play.
3. I will not be stopping at the turn.
4. I will be walking far in front of you while you take forever to play.
5. I will not be giving you any putts, of any length, ever.
6. I will give you accurate rulings, even when you don't like them.
7. I will insist that you post your real score.
8. I will not engage in convoluted betting games.
9. I will probably be leaving the club immediately after the round.
10. I will likely be available tomorrow for more of the same.
Ditto.
But remove 1/2 and insert
1. I'm a walker. But I walk fast, play ready golf, and will be looking BACKWARDS at you with an air of impatience.
2. I will never drink on the course (not that I don't drink; there's just a time for that).
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You're not welcome in Scotland.
But I'm still coming to America whenever the hell I like.
F.
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When did the noun "golf" become a verb? I really hate that.....
Been a verb for a LOOOONG time.
Golfing is a sport like shooting, running, bolwing, hunting and fishing.
The participants are all given the *er suffix, shooter, runner, bowler, rider, hunter, fisher, golfer.
I have a book published many decades ago by the Sunday Times called, "Go Golfing in Great Britain," good enough for me.
K
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Ted,
You have played Victoria National enough to know that losing a ball does not guarantee a loss of hole even in match play. Have you ever seen two good friends in a rules dispute? For no other reason than the rules being too complicated it can end friendships. When you tell a guy that his ball did not cross a hazard 200 yds up the fairway you are not calling him a cheater. You're calling him something, I'm not ever sure what, but not quite a cheater. Not quite.
John,
1. I generally only choose to play golf with friends
2. Because I have been trained in the rules of golf, I always "help" people with the rules (MUCH different that having a "rules dispute" or calling a penalty on a fellow competitor)
3. If I'm playing with someone who desperately wants to beat me out of $X.XX, I've chosen my "golf friend" poorly (and this can be corrected by gracefully choosing not to play with that person again).
4. I am uncomfortable winning or losing significant cash from/to my "golf friends" (I dont' feel good about either).
5. My standard game is to play a singles match against a good friend and the standard wager is dinner (and thank you Ran for picking up so many of these the last few years). Winning or losing that bet (and sharing dinner with someone I enjoy) is a success either way. Playing a match (and not worrying about score or having to hole out if the hole has been lost) can be done in closer to 3 hours than 5. That is my kind of golf. Give it a try. I truly believe there will be less for you to hate.
TS
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Ted,
You have played Victoria National enough to know that losing a ball does not guarantee a loss of hole even in match play. Have you ever seen two good friends in a rules dispute? For no other reason than the rules being too complicated it can end friendships. When you tell a guy that his ball did not cross a hazard 200 yds up the fairway you are not calling him a cheater. You're calling him something, I'm not ever sure what, but not quite a cheater. Not quite.
John,
1. I generally only choose to play golf with friends
2. Because I have been trained in the rules of golf, I always "help" people with the rules (MUCH different that having a "rules dispute" or calling a penalty on a fellow competitor)
3. If I'm playing with someone who desperately wants to beat me out of $X.XX, I've chosen my "golf friend" poorly (and this can be corrected by gracefully choosing not to play with that person again).
4. I am uncomfortable winning or losing significant cash from/to my "golf friends" (I dont' feel good about either).
5. My standard game is to play a singles match against a good friend and the standard wager is dinner (and thank you Ran for picking up so many of these the last few years). Winning or losing that bet (and sharing dinner with someone I enjoy) is a success either way. Playing a match (and not worrying about score or having to hole out if the hole has been lost) can be done in closer to 3 hours than 5. That is my kind of golf. Give it a try. I truly believe there will be less for you to hate.
TS
Ted- 3 and 4 ring true with me as well. Any time I get the feeling that someone is in it for a money maker it is a complete turn off. Pretty easy to tell when your opponent declines a good good on the 2nd hole from 2 feet in a small stakes Nassau that the day might not turn out as you had planned. I have seen plenty of groups split up over trivial issues related to gambling which should never be a consequence of our great game.
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Ted,
You have played Victoria National enough to know that losing a ball does not guarantee a loss of hole even in match play. Have you ever seen two good friends in a rules dispute? For no other reason than the rules being too complicated it can end friendships. When you tell a guy that his ball did not cross a hazard 200 yds up the fairway you are not calling him a cheater. You're calling him something, I'm not ever sure what, but not quite a cheater. Not quite.
John,
1. I generally only choose to play golf with friends
2. Because I have been trained in the rules of golf, I always "help" people with the rules (MUCH different that having a "rules dispute" or calling a penalty on a fellow competitor)
3. If I'm playing with someone who desperately wants to beat me out of $X.XX, I've chosen my "golf friend" poorly (and this can be corrected by gracefully choosing not to play with that person again).
4. I am uncomfortable winning or losing significant cash from/to my "golf friends" (I dont' feel good about either).
5. My standard game is to play a singles match against a good friend and the standard wager is dinner (and thank you Ran for picking up so many of these the last few years). Winning or losing that bet (and sharing dinner with someone I enjoy) is a success either way. Playing a match (and not worrying about score or having to hole out if the hole has been lost) can be done in closer to 3 hours than 5. That is my kind of golf. Give it a try. I truly believe there will be less for you to hate.
TS
Ted,
I too only play golf with friends. GCA events being the rare exception. Obviously we must get along with each other reasonable well to to have a game that has withstood three days a week for 10 years now.
I never know what significant cash means to any individual, not exactly sure what it means to me. Let's say more than what the shoes you are wearing today set you back. That is a good standard and gets the blood pumping. note: I couldn't afford to play with Dawson.
I don't want to play in three hours at club where the standard is 4 hrs and 15. I've got nowhere else I want or need to be. If I do I'll find something else to do. Like not go see The Master again. I should have hit balls yesterday.
The one thing that I can't accept is that the only way I can tolerate the rules of golf is to ignore them. I'm fine with the group of guys I play for significant amounts of money with because we understand the context of the rules where we play. We know who is going to take a lemon drop and where. When a guy does he is properly called out and the problem is resolved. Sort of. It all works out over the course of hundreds of rounds. This is what I meant when I told Davis that playing golf with the same people day after day takes sacrifice, patience and understanding.
Now tournament golf is completely different. I've played in a few tournaments or so this year and have not been able to get past the fifth hole before witnessing a rules infraction that forced me into an uncomfortable situation. Where is the fun in that?
No point in even getting into sandbaggers.
I suppose I don't hate golfers, I hate the game. Thank God for winter.
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Tim,
I saw you post and I got excited you were going to come clean about the pumphouse! ;) ;D
Mark
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I think I'm a lot better that I really am, I'm 22 but I act like I'm 42, I can see a fatal flaw in your swing but I won't tell you even if you do ask, I wear bright colors, I wear shorts as a guest, and if you invite me to your club I'm going to take you up on it even if it was an empty invitation. That's all I've got for now.
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I will attest to a couple of Colbert's comments.
He came up to Schuylkill and I never thought he would.
He shot a bogey free 69 and wasnt excited
He never commented on my swing.
He has every loud colored shirt and shorts from Huntington Valley
Mark
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I've been otherwise occupied with the Redhead finishing our feature film "Writer's Cramp" (shameless plug, see it on Facebook), so have not been climbing into the Treehouse much lately. That stated - having just returned from Bandon - my zest for the game has been restored; living through the trauma of another U.S. Open and a mediocre renovation of my beloved Ocean Course soured me a bit, but I've recovered . . . . .
Now, back to the question: Why does Barny hate me?
Actually, I gave it a bit of thought; the answer is obvious: Barny hates me because he hates himself and cannot stand the company of anyone with a darker vision of reality. You see, I know that I am a pedantic ass - a snarky, pompous know-it-all with a helium-filled, overly inflated ego that has not come to terms with the reality of decaying skills, a yippy putter and a chipping game as likely to skull the ball across the green as lay the sod over the top of the new Pro-V1 I am not good enough to play. Unlike most people, who wander through life pretending that everybody says nice things about them, I know the truth. So do you Barny. Your loathsome nature comes out in the cruel things you write - the thin veneer of bullshit, stripped of its courtly Midwestern facade, jeers at people dying of cancer and torments the weak and defenseless.
You hate me because I know that those sanctimonious prayers you say in the church pew every Sunday is just a way to hedge your bet with God. Remember the way you tortured Tom H.? That was a fine way to treat a fellow Jesuit, yet your cruel nature would just not let it go until the harassment drove him from this site. Yet he forgave you, but your iniquitous impulses kept you from balancing the books.
You hate me because I'm a reflection of you. We are both angry comics, the only difference is our delivery. You hate most people and the courtly pretense you cultivate in person is just that - an invention of your soulless, dark presence. You hate me because we share the same moonless disposition that underpins our friendly persona. Aside from (admittedly many) close friends harvested from this site, I have exactly two people with whom I play golf with at home any regularity; the reason being that I find it difficult to endure the company of most of the membership at my club beyond a drink or two - even having been there for 38 years.
You hate me because I have no illusions about who and what you are. You hate everybody else because they seem beneath you.
P.S. Golf was used as a verb by C.B. Macdonald.
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P.S. Golf was used as a verb by C.B. Macdonald.
So he's responsible?
I guess designing NGLA and inspiring Old Macdonald balances the books.
Or maybe not.
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Gib, you forgot to add that you are a far better writer than he, as well. :P
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Gib, you forgot to add that you are a far better writer than he, as well. :P
Yes, but the narcissistic, edgy old man routine wears equally thin.
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Gib, you forgot to add that you are a far better writer than he, as well. :P
You never read my twitter novel The Ginger Chronicles. Gib tried to form a thought once in 140 characters and poked three eyes out. Poor cat. He knows that I don't hate him because I not only got free golf out of our relationship, he picked me up at the airport to boot.
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Such a concept as "he hates you because he hates himself" is a fallacy, methinks.
I suspect John actually loves quite a lot. He's just not taken with expressing it, or discussing it, because it's just not very manly. Men don't talk about their feelings except at funerals, if then.
He goes through life as a self-contradiction, as someone who actually loves and appreciates all he has so deeply and powerfully he'd begin blubbering like Dick Vermeil if one was ever allowed to peak behind the wizard's curtain.
Shocking verbal salvos keep people interested in him, and talking with him, because otherwise he may fade into the background as a typical grumpy mensch is prone to doing.
He's keenly aware that all of his hard work was necessary to his success in life, but a lot of goodwill and luck on the part of others played an equally important role.
And at the end of the day, this places him firmly in the bizarre position of actually being embarrassed, for the world is his oyster and despite everything looking perfect on the outside, he sometimes dreams for a simple life without all the attention.
Such is the plight of modern day wealthy white men in America. To cope, they seek refuge as far away from others as possible, in a habitat amongst their own type, the private club.
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Tim,
Guilty as charged on the narcissistic accusation, although I'm a trifle miffed at your assertion that at one tick under 53, I'm branded aged and infirm. Given your delicate sensibilities, I'll try to be less edgy in the future; I parachute in no more than once a month, so you must regard me as that annoying 3rd cousin who barges in during the holidays spoils the polite dinner conversation. If my expelling a little snot bothers you, Kavanaugh must be like having an emotionally disturbed psychotic right next door.
Now, I did not say that I hated Barney, far from it. As a matter of fact, I really enjoy his company - he's a charmingly complex intellectual, stuck in the bowels of America with no outlet for his dark nature but GCA. Methinks it is a bit like a rattlesnake accumulating venom, or a rapist with a semen-retention headache. His outbursts serve as a (relatively harmless) pressure release from the constrictive strait-jacket world that providence has thrust upon him.
I also know for a fact that he does not believe 90% of the discursive drivel he writes - any more than I do. It is all about amusing yourself amusing others.
As for his Twitter speculation, I tried to Tweet once and discovered that I need 200 characters just to clear my throat. Composing concise pith runs contrary to my DNA. My uncle was Bill Saroyan . . . I doubt if he would have Tweeted either.
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Gib,
Most people around here seem to enjoy your rants so keep 'em coming. I just can't stand these navel gazing threads and assisting John K in his own navel gazing may be the worst (even if done well). Don't mind me--apparently plenty of people would love to talk about John K's phobias, quirks and foibles. Maybe it's a Dismal River thing.
P.S. I have little interest in the DR Nicklaus course; the Doak course on the other hand . . .
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Gib,
Most people around here seem to enjoy your rants so keep 'em coming. I just can't stand these navel gazing threads and assisting John K in his own navel gazing may be the worst (even if done well). Don't mind me--apparently plenty of people would love to talk about John K's phobias, quirks and foibles. Maybe it's a Dismal River thing.
P.S. I have little interest in the DR Nicklaus course; the Doak course on the other hand . . .
Tim,
You illustrate the point of this thread perfectly above. The game is dying because everyone, including me, are made miserable by the petty habits of others that should not touch their lives. Remember your snit comment to me the other day. Seems you are suffering also.
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John,
The game is not dying and, if it were, that would not be the reason for its demise. Please continue talking about yourself, I'll no longer interrupt.
Best (sincerely),
Tim
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Tim,
I am not nearly as annoyed by John's self-flagellation as you seem to be. I regard our friend as a sort of obtuse curiosity - a conversation piece, giving the same impression as would an enormous ceramic penis on a pedestal in the Louvre. How did it find a place here? Is it art? If so, would it not be better to display it in a place more appropriate?
The primary allure of John's madness is not shock value - although I once threatened to fly to Indiana and kick his ass if he did not apologize to one of our mutual friends. We read him for the same reason Bill Griffith was so successful with Zippy the Pinhead comics: Hidden within the nonsense is an encoded message. The message might be abhorrent, it might be insightful and it might be just plain nasty, but it is difficult to resist the temptation to decode the residue that erupts from the airless bowels of his violently conflicted, painful, guilt-riddled, self inflicted insanity.
The contradiction between his internet persona and the skinny-legged pot belly who carries his bag, replaces every single divot and fixes every ball mark on the green - not so much as a matter of habit, but an OCD condition - is striking until you look closer. Barny lamented to me once that he was jealous of my freedom living in San Francisco - opining that in his life back home, nobody could possibly grasp the concept of this board let alone the vectorous nature of his posts.
If left to his own devices - assuming his extremely attractive wife could be locked into a state of suspended animation for a year or so - it would not surprise me to see him naked on roller skates, smoking a joint with 100,000 other people at Bay to Breakers. John's biggest problem is that he's a closet crackerbox - emotionally locked in the town stocks - fearful that his peers in the narrow-minded prison of his stomping grounds will someday discover that he is not a boilerplate, pro forma idiot like the rest of them.
"The down side of Americans being obsessed with pop culture is that they kind of like it light."
-Bill Griffith
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Also, it answers the question: What would the connoisseurs of golf course architecture discuss if there were no great courses left to conquer? The answer: the same fears and frailties that set them off on that quest in the first place, except now with no code words like "top 10", "hidden gem", "shot values" and "templates" to hide behind.
Just a thought....
Peter
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My uncle was Bill Saroyan . . . I doubt if he would have Tweeted either.
Hi Gib,
I looked up the Wikipedia biography of William Saroyan. I see his cousin is Ross Bagdasarian, Sr., a name I also recognize. Perhaps he would be a tweeter.
Oo ee oo ah ah,
Ting tang walla walla bing bang.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iA_TZ15ruA
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My father was actually in Auntie K's house, sitting on a chair in the basement, the night Uncle Bill and Ross (Uh, Dave Seville) worked out "C'mon a my house." Here is the truth, it is a tongue in cheek parody of our Armenian habit of inviting people to the house for the whole coffee, dried fruit, nuts and assorted delights, followed by Shish Kebab and pilaf etc etc etc.
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Gib,
I deleted the first comment, for fear it was too personal, so I'm glad you followed up. Perhaps I'll reinstate the first comment so it doesn't look weird.
In the Wikipedia bio of Bagdasarian, it also says he was the piano player in Rear Window, which is a sensational movie.
Funny how "Come On A-My House" is commonly interpreted as something very different. Great story, and thanks.
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...
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1) I'm a five handicap who occasionally gets too frustrated with his game. This means I might slam or toss a club every once in awhile. I don't like doing it, and I'll probably apologize for it later. But it happens.
2) I'll be overly critical of Fazio architecture.
3) I'm going to walk.
4) I quote Caddyshack a lot.
5) I really like the "no looking for lost balls" stipulation.
...but at least I'm not a poser like McKeever.
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Nice John!! :)
Mark
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I regard our friend as a sort of obtuse curiosity, a conversation piece, giving the same impression as would an enormous ceramic penis on a pedestal
I'll never be able to watch A Clockwork Orange again.
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When did the noun "golf" become a verb? I really hate that.....
Been a verb for a LOOOONG time.
Golfing is a sport like shooting, running, bolwing, hunting and fishing.
The participants are all given the *er suffix, shooter, runner, bowler, rider, hunter, fisher, golfer.
I have a book published many decades ago by the Sunday Times called, "Go Golfing in Great Britain," good enough for me.
K
True. Look it up in any English language dictionary. "Golf" is a verb. Plain fact.
I hate it when people try to impose their own erroneous rules of grammar on the English language. You might as well try to contradict the rules of golf.
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I think the question is whether the statement "golf your ball" is proper. In the one dictionary I looked at online, "golf" is called an intransitive verb, which means there is no direct object allowed. That's right, isn't it Bill?
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I think the question is whether the statement "golf your ball" is proper. In the one dictionary I looked at online, "golf" is called an intransitive verb, which means there is no direct object allowed. That's right, isn't it Bill?
Who knows? I just think golf as a verb sounds goofy, but whatever floats your boat.
"John and I golfed at Pumpkin Ridge yesterday." That just sounds weak to me. It may be proper English but I for one would never say that.
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you hate because you are a hater
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I don't want to play in three hours at club where the standard is 4 hrs and 15. I've got nowhere else I want or need to be. If I do I'll find something else to do. Like not go see The Master again. I should have hit balls yesterday.
JK,
I can't seem to even process the above paragraph. You "like" to play slow? You've got "nowhere else you want or need to be?" Then...just, please don't be in the group in front of me. Standing around waiting for someone who can't seem to be ready to play this great game when it is their turn is very difficult to endure. I have never been to a golf course where the "standard" is 4 hours and 15 minutes (you've got to "try" to play that slow). Played Friday at the Trophy Club in Indy in 3 hours and 15 minutes. We had a fantastic afternoon. I agree with you on The Master. Saw it Friday night after the golf. Wish I had that 2 1/2 hours back...though I'd see it again versus playing 10 holes behind your group. :'(
TS
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Ted,
All I want to do is play exactly as fast as I want to. I don't want someone behind me pushing or someone in front slowing me down. This is possible even on a crowded course if you pace your group according to the conditions of the day.
I don't think it is fair to compare a round with however many people you have in your group at the Trophy Club with a round played by a foresome at a huge penal course like Victoria National. You don't have to try to be slow if you are playing cart path only and putting everything thing out to take 4:15. Yes that does sound like less than fun for the rake and run crowd, so please don't remind me. There are other courses where 3:15 is the norm for our game. Oak Meadow, Rolling Hills, Cambridge, etc. are all examples. Here are my preference for playing, which limits the hate, from most favorable to least.
1. Play exactly at a pace that fits the day.
2. Wait on a group in front of me from time to time.
3. Let a group go through.
4. Play through a group.
I hate playing through a group more than any other aspect of golf. I would rather take a bit longer myself and smell the roses cause I like being outdoors having fun.
I never arrive at a course either expecting anything other than being able to enjoy the day without either playing through a group or letting a group through. When I was younger I would hunt any group in front of me with the determination that I would catch and pass that group. I see groups behind me doing the same.
I would be surprised if anyone on this site can argue that the anxiety created by pace of play issues is not killing the game. I fully admit that if I tee off at 9 am on a weekend morning and your group tees off at 10 I will not be happy when you expect to be let though on 16 tee. You will still get done in your desired 3:15 but it pushes me back to 4:30. Yes it does takes 15 minutes to let a group go through and then wait on the next tee. And yes 16 tee being a very difficult par three is a choke point. Now we are both pissed off because of your expectations.
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This is a worthwhile bump now that things are things.
You hate me because...
1. I act like I'm always right on Twitter.
2. I am always right on Twitter.
3. Just like everyone else is always right on Twitter.
1. I play fast and expect that you at least focus on the task at hand (playing golf).
2. I play the ball down and will refuse your offer to improve a lie.
3. I walk and may make some snarky comment about not having a handicap so as to require a cart.
4. I don't want you to take my bag off my shoulder.
5. I generally eschew caddies.
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What a gut punch to learn that one of Barney's parents attended Georgetown. The Hillbilly Tour was nothing but a ruse perpetrated in a snow globe. Hillbillies don't know where Georgetown is, and if they played golf with Gary Player (by accident) they surely would not admit it publicly. Now Gibby Gilbert? That's a whole nuther story.
Bogey
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Worse yet it was my great grandmother that attended Georgetown.
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Barney, that is a bitter pill as both of my family trees include no more than a single quarter of enrollment at Murray State. Thanks for slumming with me.
Mike
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Barney, that is a bitter pill as both of my family trees include no more than a single quarter of enrollment at Murray State. Thanks for slumming with me.
Mike
Yes, perhaps. But both of you clean up nicely. Along with Steve Wilson, you'all are Hillbilly royalty to me.
Re: your other topic, my son had this one or something similar in his Dodge truck. Unfortunately, the lock was not a deterrent to and experienced thief as his clubs were stolen one night in Austin.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-71-36-Diamond-Plate-Aluminum-Full-Size-Crossbed-Truck-Tool-Box-102101-9-01/302959739
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I remember this thread and I recall being tempted to reply and deciding to refrain. It's a different time. I really don't like the term hate. My very wise Dad told me "hate is a terrible and destructive emotion. You should do your best to avoid it. But sometimes you can't help yourself. If you have to hate, treat it like anything else; do it well. It will help get it out of your system." I have tried to apply that advice since I heard it about 60 years ago. Accordingly, I haven't applied it to the petty annoyances referred to regarding others' golf habits. The closest I have come is my reaction to members who think they know more about architecture and course conditioning than the professionals and proceed to do their best to make the professionals and the various committee members lives miserable. I have made my feelings known on numerous occasions to a variety of offenders.
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Hate indeed is a very strong word. I have an extremely intense dislike for golfers who do not the staff well.
Ira
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I think some people hate me because I make the game look so easy.
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Hate indeed is a very strong word. I have an extremely intense dislike for golfers who do not the staff well.
Ira
I "hate" those who don't proof read thier posts! ;D
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Hate indeed is a very strong word. I have an extremely intense dislike for golfers who do not the staff well.
Ira
I "hate" those who don't proof read thier posts! ;D
*treat
Well played.
Ira
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I remember this thread and I recall being tempted to reply and deciding to refrain. It's a different time. I really don't like the term hate. My very wise Dad told me "hate is a terrible and destructive emotion. You should do your best to avoid it. But sometimes you can't help yourself. If you have to hate, treat it like anything else; do it well. It will help get it out of your system." I have tried to apply that advice since I heard it about 60 years ago. Accordingly, I haven't applied it to the petty annoyances referred to regarding others' golf habits. The closest I have come is my reaction to members who think they know more about architecture and course conditioning than the professionals and proceed to do their best to make the professionals and the various committee members lives miserable. I have made my feelings known on numerous occasions to a variety of offenders.
I suppose I would take hate more seriously if I was in the forgiveness business.
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One needn’t be in the forgiveness business in this context, as the uninformed, would-be malefactors usually admit that they were wrong and the architect, superintendent and oft-maligned grounds chairman were right, once the work came to fruition.
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One can think whatever you want, however as soon as you say or do something then this is behavior and subject to reactions in kind/consequences. Those who can't control their "hate" on a golf course I would believe have bigger problems in their lives triggering this. Life is stressful and perhaps overwhelming at points, it is recreation like golf that should be therapeutic during these times.
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I think some people hate me because I make the game look so easy.
Actually it's more than some.
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I hate people who think playing a closed golf course does no harm. I hate the people who say they just now started not touching rakes. I hate people who think walking while playing is even a small answer to our current crisis. I hate anyone who thinks any golf in any circumstance before Easter is anything but a privilege. As of last night I hate the airlines for still offering non-stop flights from San Francisco to North Bend.
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John,
Do you want to learn something here from others?
Or do you believe you're here to teach others something about themselves?
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John,
Do you want to learn something here from others?
Or do you believe you're here to teach others something about themselves?
The best way to answer that is to remind myself the many times my wife has asked me to leave her alone and go pick on you guys. I think I've learned a lot about myself along the way. Funny thing, I recently joined a new club and have been 100% tolerant of all things that have bothered me in the past. I even went on a couples trip for the first time in our 38 years of marriage and gave up drinking for January and February as part of a club activity. The results are interesting to say the least.
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One can think whatever you want, however as soon as you say or do something then this is behavior and subject to reactions in kind/consequences. Those who can't control their "hate" on a golf course I would believe have bigger problems in their lives triggering this. Life is stressful and perhaps overwhelming at points, it is recreation like golf that should be therapeutic during these times.
True Jeff,
But there are some exceptions, even if they may not specifically fall in the hate category.
For example, nothing gets my blood boiling quicker than being on the course on a slow day and the groups are stacked up....but the group behind you for whatever reason fails to recognize this and sends a few chili peppers up our backsides with a "hurry-up". They may get a pass the first time, but not a second..
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Not all that long ago I hated how complicated the rules of golf are which makes it almost impossible to have an equitable game giving strokes. I give between 10 and 23 strokes every time I tee it up. As a matter of fact I was recently tied on a par three where I made a hole in one. It was 7 man wolf and I was giving 1 stroke to each of the other 6 players. Who wouldn't hate that?
Not Bizarro John. What I have learned through patience and observation is that if a golfer establishes his handicap under however he chooses to play the game his cap is valid as long as he remains consistent in competition. That is not an easy lesson to learn.
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Kav-I hated myself recently when I realized the din my klanking irons were making as I walked along carrying my bag. I'm thinking even though you weren't there to take notice that you hate me too even if it's only in spirit.
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Kav-I hated myself recently when I realized the din my klanking irons were making as I walked along carrying my bag. I'm thinking even though you weren't there to take notice that you hate me too even if it's only in spirit.
Double or single strapped? Old John really hated the double strapped iron click.
Now Bizarro John doesn't care who makes noise on the course be it player or maintenance worker. I do occasionally yell back at the toot toot of the Disney ferry but swear to never again as I miss that magical sound.
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Kav-I hated myself recently when I realized the din my klanking irons were making as I walked along carrying my bag. I'm thinking even though you weren't there to take notice that you hate me too even if it's only in spirit.
Double or single strapped? Old John really hated the double strapped iron click.
Now Bizarro John doesn't care who makes noise on the course be it player or maintenance worker. I do occasionally yell back at the toot toot of the Disney ferry but swear to never again as I miss that magical sound.
With all the hate going around I can say without reservation that it's easy to love Bizzaro John.
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Not all that long ago I hated how complicated the rules of golf are which makes it almost impossible to have an equitable game giving strokes. I give between 10 and 23 strokes every time I tee it up. As a matter of fact I was recently tied on a par three where I made a hole in one. It was 7 man wolf and I was giving 1 stroke to each of the other 6 players. Who wouldn't hate that?
Not Bizarro John. What I have learned through patience and observation is that if a golfer establishes his handicap under however he chooses to play the game his cap is valid as long as he remains consistent in competition. That is not an easy lesson to learn.
I had the good fortune of playing a couple rounds with John at the end of December with my son. I was a little concerned about it as we hadn't played/seen each other in probably 15 years-- it was delightful from my perspective. Not sure if it was Bizarro John or Super John in late December but my son still talks about those 2 rounds often -- he loves his Kavanaugh quotes. I did accidentally shout in John's backswing once as I came over a hill resulting in the worst shot he hit in 36 holes-- he was nonplussed.
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That must have been just after I played with Gary Player. He changed the golf experience for me and everyone I have come into contact with on the course since.
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Barney, regardless of some of my other remarks, I can unequivocally say that when I played with the pre-Gary Player version I had a wonderful time and I regret that we have not had the chance to play again notwithstanding your generous open invitation.
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Shelly. I could sit at your club all day and just stare at the furniture. That was a great day.
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When this crisis passes, you are always welcome although I confess a committee has redecorated
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Bizarro Barney loves mid century modern furniture.
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Funny, I can still vividly remember the dagger like stare you shot at me at Pajaro Valley at KP II! I think I was Club clacking at the time or possibly just disturbing the silence but your look from a far away tee was something I’ll never forget.
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Funny, I can still vividly remember the dagger like stare you shot at me at Pajaro Valley at KP II! I think I was Club clacking at the time or possibly just disturbing the silence but your look from a far away tee was something I’ll never forget.
I remember being pissed that day because we had agreed to play persimmons and blades and the best player at the event continued to hit his hybrids. I also remember a specific act of kindness from you and the hospitality you provided all of us at your home.
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Kav-I hated myself recently when I realized the din my klanking irons were making as I walked along carrying my bag. I'm thinking even though you weren't there to take notice that you hate me too even if it's only in spirit.
Double or single strapped? Old John really hated the double strapped iron click.
Now Bizarro John doesn't care who makes noise on the course be it player or maintenance worker. I do occasionally yell back at the toot toot of the Disney ferry but swear to never again as I miss that magical sound.
Ha, when he was younger, My son (Who knew nothing other than double straps) shared they knew a kid was likely an AJGA low handicap player if his clubs made the forged "clack" vs. the hollow "kank" sound his made. Don't be a hater. :D
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Funny, I can still vividly remember the dagger like stare you shot at me at Pajaro Valley at KP II! I think I was Club clacking at the time or possibly just disturbing the silence but your look from a far away tee was something I’ll never forget.
I remember being pissed that day because we had agreed to play persimmons and blades and the best player at the event continued to hit his hybrids. I also remember a specific act of kindness from you and the hospitality you provided all of us at your home.
You have your King Putters mixed up. #1 was at Casa Pete. I too was at rainy Pajaro Valley, KPII, and experienced similar disappointments regarding equipment. I played with my PB Citation persimmon driver and laminated 5 wood (the head is smaller than some irons), half-dozen Hogan Apex blades, a Wilson R90 SW, an Otey Crisman wood-shafted putter, and Titleist balata balls. My partner was Lynn S and we played Gib P and Shivas, all who played with modern equipment. It was not much of a contest, mostly because my partner was in unusually good form, and his still to this day fantastic tempo rubbed off on me. Good times.
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Thanks for the reminder Lou. I don't think I have ever witnessed two fully dressed men that disappointed me more than Shivas and Gib did that day.
You've reminded me of the other GCA outing at Lost Dunes where a majority of the participants refused to play alternate shot. As it was I of course came out on top by having the pleasure of having Doak as my partner and escorting a couple of young strapping golfers to the architectural wood shed.
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Barney, at KPII you and I played with Jeff Fortson and Mike Benham.
Sweet Lou, I like your bag. I too played Power/Built persimmons and the R90 reproduction sand wedge with the brown shaft. Rounded out my bag with a set of 1956 Wilson Staff's and my dad's first putter, an International I believe. If I recall correctly Pete provided each participant with a sleeve of Pajaro logo'd Titleist balata. That KP was the first time I met most of you guys on the website. I'll never forget Dan King appearing magically through the trees on the second hole at Pasatiempo. Those were good days and I remain astonished at the extent to which I was welcomed.
Bogey
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Was it Chubs against Studs? Who did I piss off to get that pairing?
In all seriousness I admire people with great memories.
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Can't recall the match. But let's go with the Chubs trouncing the Studs. Weird what one remembers - I seem to recall you placing a plastic grocery bag over your head when it began raining. Makes for a good story anyway.
Bogey
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Mike H,
Great stories and recollections.
My first large GCA event was the return trip to the Monterrey area for one of the KPs. I still have great memories of the interactions, chats, and shared stories to this day and greatly appreciated the warm welcome and camaraderie in general. Like Tom H used to say, "it was more fun than a grown adult should be allowed to have"
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Lou,
Yes it was a tyop, KP II.
I partnered with Ed’s polish buddy who worked at the book store at Pebble Beach. We lost to Bob Huntley who played his Hogan irons and Ed Getka who kept his usual set of Wilson Staffs. I saw no need to swap out my MP-33’s but put a MacGregor persimmon driver and a George Low Wizard 500 putter, in honor of Jack in the bag.
I sure miss Sir Boab, never met a finer human being! I remember Bob relating a story that he bought a white suit at a Thrift Store and had it dry cleaned. He wore it to some tropical location and was told “Sir you have elevated our establishment merely by your presence here!” Priceless!
It’s a shame Ed doesn’t participate here anymore.
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Pete’s black and white photo of the participants behind the 18th green at Pasa is an all-time classic. Perhaps someone can post.
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Pete Lavallee
Ed's mate was Ron Muszalkski.His book collection is amazing. Sir Bob always admired it.I got a reprinted copy of Golf Architecture in America (George Thomas) from Ron when I stayed nearby in Pacific Grove 14 years ago. It remains one of my favourite books.
James B
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James,
Yes, that’s the guy. I wonder if he still smokes non filtered cigarettes? Hard to imagine that was 17 years ago?
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This might be a good place for a great little Sir Bob Huntley story...
Not sure if it was a KP event or something else but Dr. Geoffrey Childs and I were playing at Pasatiempo in a little match against Bob and I believe Gib P.
Geoff came out guns blazing and single-handedly won the first three holes on his own to put us 3-up.
As we stood on the 4th tee, Bob stepped forward just as Geoff was about to tee it up and said;
"Geoffrey...tomorrow morning we will be at Cypress Point. Right now, I'd like you to imagine that you're there...on that first tee set high up near the clubhouse. I'd like for you to take pause, take a look around you at the incredible beauty and wonderful golf you see in every direction, and ask yourself the question...do I ever want to come back here?"
I think we were one down by the turn.
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MC,
As I recall, Geoff was not very impressed with CPC. A cold wind was blowing 20+ mph and the greens had been heavily aerated a day or two before. I remember the sunny day well because even though I barely broke 90, it was the rare occasion when I took a couple of bets from Tom Huckaby. Bogie (Mike H) walked with us and got over on #16 with my driver. Somewhere I have a bunch of pics from that day.
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MC,
As I recall, Geoff was not very impressed with CPC. A cold wind was blowing 20+ mph and the greens had been heavily aerated a day or two before. I remember the sunny day well because even though I barely broke 90, it was the rare occasion when I took a couple of bets from Tom Huckaby. Bogie (Mike H) walked with us and got over on #16 with my driver. Somewhere I have a bunch of pics from that day.
Lou,
I recall my full driver into a howling wind quartering into us at 16 got into the front bunker, although it may have been my second attempt. I also recall hitting my best drive and approach of the day on 17, and recall Mr. Huntley waiting for us behind the 18th green.
I remember a really great day. It's a funny thing...as I get older I only recall the really good shots, or the shots that were so bad that they were comical. ;D
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MC,
As I recall, Geoff was not very impressed with CPC. A cold wind was blowing 20+ mph and the greens had been heavily aerated a day or two before. I remember the sunny day well because even though I barely broke 90, it was the rare occasion when I took a couple of bets from Tom Huckaby. Bogie (Mike H) walked with us and got over on #16 with my driver. Somewhere I have a bunch of pics from that day.
Are you saying the Mike H stole a tee shot on 16 at CPC? I hate people stealing golf.
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Barney, this is blatant double jeopardy. I have confessed the crime before on this very site and pleaded guilty, offering no defense. I find little solace in the fact that it was the rare high driver into a stout breeze with just a tad of draw on it - a real peach. Just to come totally clean, I also knocked a 9-iron onto the 15th green as well.
Barney, I guess that leaves me as the player and you as the hater according to my girl Taylor:
"Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate."
I'll try to Shake it Off.
Your bud,
Mike H
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I can forgive you but I was not the one harmed. Have you contacted Cypress and offered to pay for your round?
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I can forgive you but I was not the one harmed. Have you contacted Cypress and offered to pay for your round?
My only offer was to play again, as a non-rater guest.
Still waiting!
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JK,
Mr. Hendren had the urging and full approval of our caddies including Barry, a very dour chap who was not real happy with my play. As I recall, we played in four hours- what they most cared about- under very difficult conditions. I do have a picture of four guys and two caddies marching down #6 making the hole look rather crowded. One of the great things about CPC, at least during Mr. Langley's tenure, was that the place was relaxed and guests felt welcomed (subject to known limitations, of course).
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I was in Jacksonville for a very short time once and called TPC Sawgrass with the offer of paying a full green fee just to play the 17th hole. I didn't have the time or interest to play the rest of the course. I was quickly dispatched. I guess I should have just walked out there and asked a caddie.
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For the record, Shivas and I fought bravely, but were vanquished by that guy from Texas and some reasonably well-known Bruin alumni, his fame at this point being notable for siring his congenitally grumpy offspring.
But, we got beat - I recall a handshake on the 15th green - after which Shivas and I pressed for an extra round of beers; Lou stuck it in our asses with birdie on #18, but being a classy guy, did not openly taunt us in the bar like his partner. One can only imagine what the Wizard of Westwood would have thought of his shameless gloating.
It reminds me of a match, fought to a draw, at the first Barona KP. This was where I'd finally met Tommy (before I coined his ubiquitous nickname) a year of so earlier. Emperor insisted - we were only GCA friends on the internet and phone - that I desperately needed to see this fabulous creation in a place called "Rattlesnake Canyon" - somewhere in the rocky bowels of the San Diego outback.
Yes, it was everything and more - and led to a long friendship with Eck, who I feel is an elite architect - in talent and ouvre if not a household name. I loved it so much, I convinced the Chair of an enormous industry tournament to abandon Singing Hills and move it to Barona - to rave reviews. I won't try to spell the new Indian casino name Singing Hills eventually became.
In any event, some twat, knowing that Tommy and I are the closest of friends, decided to pit us against each other in match play; let's face it, at the time I was not Jeff Fortson, but not afraid of many mortals either.
Okay, Tommy was a pretty damn good player, but our normal matches were me giving him 2.5 a side . . . . expecting a friendly match, I downed a couple extra road sodas and wandered casually up to the tee, only to find Naccarato looking at me like a hungry wolf.
As I recall, I was even par standing on the 6th tee and three down, since Tommy had started out birdie, birdie, par, par, birdie (holing out from a bunker).
Team Captain had already mentally figured I would win - but since Tommy's 40 footer on #18 hung on the lip of the cup, the North had to settle for a tie. Note to self: Don't ever underestimate Italians.
The strangest thing is Tommy has never mentioned the match again - even after all these years.
And although I remember absolutely killing somebody the next day in my match, damn if I can remember which team won - in fact, I cannot tell you for sure who won ANY of the K.P. matches . . . . probably the best evidence of why we all love it so much.
The last one I played was in May of 2013 . . . . we dragged everybody down to the Central Coast, first to play this really cool homemade job Neal and I had run across called The Links at Paso Robles - and then to San Luis Obispo CC to show off our handiwork. I got to play with Dan King at Dairy Creek, which is always a highlight.
I've not been back for much of anything as my life took a hairpin twist into a ditch. Standing on the 1st tee at Paso, my little brother called to tell me my father - the person who put a club in my hand at age 3 - had passed away in the night.
I put on a pretty brave face, all things considered, but like your parents, never forget to tell people you care about how much you love them. Life is short - those pictures from the past are at once life-affirming, but also a reminder most of us are walking down the 14th fairway at best.
If America gets out of this jam, let's all make an effort to celebrate those of us who are still on the north side of the divot - and remember those dear to us that are gone.
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"The strangest thing is Tommy has never mentioned the match again - even after all these years."
That's 'cause he loves and respects you, Gib. And it's the Italian thing -- ie don't *push* it. It's like that actor who saved Sinatra from drowning. Frank was grateful, of course, and for months very generous in 'paying him back' in many different ways. Now, if the guy just had the sense to stop talking about it all the time, and to back away for a few weeks and give Frank some space (i.e. as if to say "we're good, Frankie, you don't owe me anything"), Frank would've been his loyal friend for life, probably paying for his kids to go to college and for their weddings and all the guy's hospital bills. But instead, for 6 months the guy wouldn't get out of Franks' face -- pushing, always pushing. So of course Frank finally had to say "Get the f--k out out here, don't bother me anymore, you're getting on my f--king nerves"!
Which is to say, I understand Tommy completely on this: a thing happened, you know, he knows, that's it -- it's done, it's over. Talking about it is just gonna insult you (or risk insulting you). Imagine the opposite, if he'd been talking about the match constantly for the last 20 years? You guys wouldn't be friends no more, for sure.
Hope you're well,
P
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For the record, Shivas and I fought bravely, but were vanquished by that guy from Texas and some reasonably well-known Bruin alumni, his fame at this point being notable for siring his congenitally grumpy offspring.
But, we got beat - I recall a handshake on the 15th green - after which Shivas and I pressed for an extra round of beers; Lou stuck it in our asses with birdie on #18, but being a classy guy, did not openly taunt us in the bar like his partner. One can only imagine what the Wizard of Westwood would have thought of his shameless gloating.
Great post as usual. At 64 now, I wonder how many remember who LS was in a former life or even know the Wizard of Westwood. Probably lucky you didn't throw in a Lew Alcindor reference.