Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Paul Jones on September 19, 2012, 09:59:05 AM
-
Am I the only one that would like to see a course have a short Par 3 for the 18th hole?
I find it funny that many new courses are adding the 19th Hole to settle bets and most if not all are short Par 3s.
-
Paul:
The reason many courses have a 19th hole is because they couldn't make a longer hole get all the way back to the clubhouse, and because either the architect or the client rejected the idea for a par-3 18th. At Stone Eagle, I suggested our 19th hole for the opening or closing hole, but the client thought that would be too odd. Yet they loved the same hole as a 19th.
Or, occasionally, the client suggests that one put in a 19th hole, and because you're already close to the clubhouse, a short par-3 is all you can fit in.
I actually had a potential 19th hole for the new course at Dismal River that was a short par-4, playing back up to the road. But it was very steeply uphill, and I thought it would take away from our great finishing hole, instead of enhance it. Plus, it would have cost another $100,000 or so to build and irrigate.
-
There is a course in Shipley West Yorkshire called Northcliffe which has a shortish par 3 18th. Also, Howley Hall just outside of Leeds has a par 3 finish though it is about the 180 yard mark. The best one I have played is at Dewsbury District Golf Club where I played as a junior. Up hill, green genched into the hillside about the 120 mark. A real tough finish to the round.
http://www.dewsburygolf.co.uk/uploads/gallery/Autumnal%20Pictures%20021-g-g.jpg
http://www.dewsburygolf.co.uk/uploads/gallery/dewsbury%20d-g.jpg
Jon
-
The finisher of Green Spring Valley Hunt Club is a very short par 3 of about 125 yards to a tiny and boldly contoured green. It's a cool hole on a very unique course that also begins with a par 3. You would never believe that Robert Trent Jones, Sr. was involved with the design.
-
Define a short par-3. We have one that is usually played at around 140-150 yards, with the back tees at around 170 yards. It plays over an old ravine with a classic green that slopes hard back to front. It doesn't look like much, but often with a couple dollars or a match on the line there are quite a few bogies or worse. In fact, over the last two days the Minnesota State Mid-Am (sub-8 handicaps) was played on our course and the average for the hole was 3.6.
Overall, I think they are fun and a nice way to end the round. You see a lot of long par-5 finishers built today, but after playing 17 holes they can sometimes feel like a long slog back to the clubhouse.
-
At Quail Creek in Robinson, Illinois both 9 and 18 are short par 3's. Not so long ago the course hosted a PGA event called the Heath Open. There was a time that I did not like finishing on a par 3. I have grown to enjoy it.
Last year I pressed the Nassau on the 9th tee and my opponent hit first and made a hole-in-one. A quick painful death.
Both holes play from 180 to 130 depending on the tee.
-
Minnesota's oldest golf course (Town & Country Club, St. Paul) has a par-3 18th of about 170 yards from the back tee and 135 from the whites, with a dramatically back-to-front-sloped green.
It's a good place to finish your day.
So is the club's 19th hole -- across the street, indoors.
P.S.: Note to self: Read previous posts before making one, instead of after.
-
Pasatiempo.
-
Define a short par-3. We have one that is usually played at around 140-150 yards, with the back tees at around 170 yards. It plays over an old ravine with a classic green that slopes hard back to front. It doesn't look like much, but often with a couple dollars or a match on the line there are quite a few bogies or worse. In fact, over the last two days the Minnesota State Mid-Am (sub-8 handicaps) was played on our course and the average for the hole was 3.6.
Overall, I think they are fun and a nice way to end the round. You see a lot of long par-5 finishers built today, but after playing 17 holes they can sometimes feel like a long slog back to the clubhouse.
I define a short Par 3 when I can hit a 8 iron or less (less meaning 9, PW, etc...) I hit my 8 iron around 145 yards.
-
There are one or two in the UK, the best known probably being that at Lindrick. Former European Tour venues St Pierre and Forest of Arden finish with par 3s and, locally, Sandiway. None of these is particularly short but they have generated some excitement in tournaments through the years.
-
I am just a big fan for a finishing hole to be exciting and fun (i.e. - Short Par 3,4 or 5) - good chance to hit the green and make birdie, but be penalized if you miss with a short iron. Most courses these days seem to follow the PGA Tour where it is a struggle to make Par. (Par 4, 480+ Yards, water on the left, trees/ob on the right, bunkers on both sides fairway, thick rough, alligators, snakes, :-) )
-
I agree with your assessment completely. I have ALWAYS thought that ending a course on a par 3 is fantastic. It's a make or break shot with all the marbles on the line. Ending with a par 5 means you can hit three lousy shots and still save par; a par 4, 2 lousy shots. The higher the par, the greater the opportunity for recovery. We've all played par 5's by hitting a drive in the rough, hacking it out and putting a 9-iron on the green. A par 3 means you only have one chance to get it right.
We have a par 3 18th hole at Deal that plays about 165 from the whites, downhill, but generally into a stiff sea breeze. It's a very difficult hole to par. Playoffs often start there and I can count the number of times I've seen the hole halved in 3's on one hand. In fact, I've seen it won more often with 4's or 5's than with 2's.
Another course that ends literally in a "Short" par 3 is the Old White at the Greenbrier.
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Greenbrier18.jpg)
-
Church Stretton finishes on a shortish short hole.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/Church%20Stretton%20GC/045.jpg)
A much better short hole finisher is by our very own Adrian Stiff - two mentions in one day for the same course.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/PLAYERS%20CLUB%20Stranahan%20Course/032.jpg?t=1310334325)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/PLAYERS%20CLUB%20Stranahan%20Course/033.jpg?t=1310334325)
Ciao
-
I agree with your assessment completely. I have ALWAYS thought that ending a course on a par 3 is fantastic. It's a make or break shot with all the marbles on the line. Ending with a par 5 means you can hit three lousy shots and still save par; a par 4, 2 lousy shots. The higher the par, the greater the opportunity for recovery. We've all played par 5's by hitting a drive in the rough, hacking it out and putting a 9-iron on the green. A par 3 means you only have one chance to get it right.
We have a par 3 18th hole at Deal that plays about 165 from the whites, downhill, but generally into a stiff sea breeze. It's a very difficult hole to par. Playoffs often start there and I can count the number of times I've seen the hole halved in 3's on one hand. In fact, I've seen it won more often with 4's or 5's than with 2's.
Another course that ends literally in a "Short" par 3 is the Old White at the Greenbrier.
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Greenbrier18.jpg)
Where is the LIKE button? :D Old White is on my short list of places to play. Where is Deal?
-
Paul,
The 18th at Preakness Hills is a short par three.
Originally about 110, it's been lengthened over the years to about 140, but it plays downhill netting it at about 130 from the back tee.
It's a two tiered green with water in front and a ring of bunkers surrounding it at the flanks and back.
Neat finishing hole.
-
Where is the LIKE button? :D Old White is on my short list of places to play. Where is Deal?
Deal is in Monmouth County, NJ between Asbury Park and Long Branch, about half a mile off the ocean.
-
Moor Park High which is downhill and is 140-150 in length if my memory is correct.
-
Harlech aka Royal St Davids.
David - 18 at Deal, NJ is a very good finish, not too tough to make 3 but equally easy to make 5. I like the fact the men's grill sits high above the green.
-
It was not short, and I'm sure I'll get some disagreement with this, but I think that Congressional was improved by making the old 18th (flipped) the 10th and the old 17th the 18th. I don't dislike all par 3 Eighteenth holes, I think this was an improvement because the old 17th is such a great hole.
-
In the rare situations I have played them as a finishing hole, I have found them a fun way to finish off a round, particularly if there are a bunch of bets and presses on the line.
-
Grew up at Deal
Those windows overlooking the 18th green caused at lot of screw ups as I struggled to
break 80 as a kid :D
In retrospect, it is where I started to learn to ignore my surroundings when competing
-
The 18th at Blackhawk CC in Madison is a short (~140 yards) par three that plays uphill to a blind-ish green. Fitting finish to a cool and quirky course...photos at http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41775.0.html
-
Sandpiper near Santa Barbara has a disappointing par 3 over a man made lake. It has to be one of the worst holes on the course. I haven't played there in years so it could have been changed.
-
North Manchester Golf Club has a cracking short finishing hole over a lake.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg157/dantovey/NMGC18_zps180d095e.jpg)
The rest of the course is excellent too, and for some reason attracts little attention.
http://www.nmgc.co.uk/pages.php/index.html
-
The 18th at Blackhawk CC in Madison is a short (~140 yards) par three that plays uphill to a blind-ish green. Fitting finish to a cool and quirky course...photos at http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41775.0.html
I was gonna mention this one.
On any other course it might feel like an odd finish, but on that layout, not so much.
It almost feels like a 19th hole, the way it sits there in a space you wouldn't think to put a hole there and also from the difficulty of the penultimate which I always thought was one of the hardest holes in Madison.
-
Define a short par-3. We have one that is usually played at around 140-150 yards, with the back tees at around 170 yards. It plays over an old ravine with a classic green that slopes hard back to front. It doesn't look like much, but often with a couple dollars or a match on the line there are quite a few bogies or worse. In fact, over the last two days the Minnesota State Mid-Am (sub-8 handicaps) was played on our course and the average for the hole was 3.6.
Overall, I think they are fun and a nice way to end the round. You see a lot of long par-5 finishers built today, but after playing 17 holes they can sometimes feel like a long slog back to the clubhouse.
Especially after 3 par 5s in a round.
Actually T&CC's 18th is a great hole, one of my favorites on the course. When there is a cross wind or a front pin, the hole is just pure evil.
-
Grew up at Deal
Those windows overlooking the 18th green caused at lot of screw ups as I struggled to
break 80 as a kid :D
Pat,
Funny you should mention that.
At Preakness Hills, when they lengthened the hole from 110 to 140 and elevated the tee, the windows in the 19th hole were being replaced weekly. Finally they put up awnings to try to stop the breakage. It took about 2 years for the membership to adjust to the new length.
In retrospect, it is where I started to learn to ignore my surroundings when competing
-
Grew up at Deal
Those windows overlooking the 18th green caused at lot of screw ups as I struggled to
break 80 as a kid :D
In retrospect, it is where I started to learn to ignore my surroundings when competing
Pat you're 100% right. I still get a little nervous knowing everyone is looking out watching. It's a great setting for a last hole, particularly now that they've cleared out some of the trees and you have a beautiful view of the lake.
-
Paul,
I can think of a couple of courses in the Birmingham (UK) area that finish on Par 3's.
Firstly is the fairly new West Midlands GC which has it's very own homage to Sawgrass' 17th as a finishing hole!!
http://www.westmidlandsgolfclub.co.uk/18th_hole.htm (http://www.westmidlandsgolfclub.co.uk/18th_hole.htm)
The other is a Colt layout at Brandhall, a municipal course in Oldbury just outside Birmingham it suffers conditioning wise but is a fairly decent test.
Neil.
-
Sandpiper near Santa Barbara has a disappointing par 3 over a man made lake. It has to be one of the worst holes on the course. I haven't played there in years so it could have been changed.
What exactly did you find so disappointing about it?
-
A friend of mine works at Glens Falls CC in upstate New York, a Donald Ross design. They have a short, downhill par 3 as their 18th hole. It is just shy of 150 yards, with a wicked two tier green. Here is a picture of it, the teebox is directly to the left of the plants. Pasatiempo was the other obvious one, but you guys beat me to the punch.
http://www.golfnewyork.com/courses/image/s300/16183.jpg[/url (http://www.golfnewyork.com/courses/image/s300/16183.jpg)
-
Pensacola CC's new (2006) course, designed by Jerry Pate's team, finishes with a par 3, 165 tips, 125 front, to a 40 yard long green angled right to back left with Pensacola Bay on the right of the volcano green. A ridge across the green halfway back makes for some intriguing pin positions.
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/PensacolaCC18g.jpg)
-
Bill,
Those pictures are so misleading, I was amazed at how big that green actually was. I remember the 4 or 5 iron I hit was on the back right and looked very good but I bet I wasn't more than 20 feet from the bay.
-
Bill,
Those pictures are so misleading, I was amazed at how big that green actually was. I remember the 4 or 5 iron I hit was on the back right and looked very good but I bet I wasn't more than 20 feet from the bay.
You can't see the back half of the green that's behind the ridge.