Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Ted Sturges on June 22, 2012, 01:40:38 PM
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If you haven't looked at the Streamsong website recently, they have updated it and added lots of new pics from both courses. Looks fantastic.
www.streamsongresort.com
TS
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Thanks for posting that. I am very impressed so far. I can't wait to get the chance to play there. #7 on the BLUE looks to be a solid par 3 and having the water there is a definite departure from what I have seen of Doak so far. #15 on the RED caught my eye immediately.
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Thanks for posting that. I am very impressed so far. I can't wait to get the chance to play there. #7 on the BLUE looks to be a solid par 3 and having the water there is a definite departure from what I have seen of Doak so far. #15 on the RED caught my eye immediately.
I think the one shot 7th on the Streamsong BLUE might have been inspired by the unique one shot 5th hole at Quail Crossing Golf Club.
TS
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Incredible property.
I'm wondering though, what differentiates the two courses? Looking at the photos at the Streamsong web site, it seems both have a similar aesthetic... which probably isn't the case at all, when there in person.
Tom D. - I imagine there was serious effort by yours and Bill's crews to 'do something different' with each course?
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Thanks for catching this. Very nice new photo gallery of both courses
Interestingly, the site also has an online form to request tee times ... but not a phone number to obtain additional information and/or request one of the clubhouse rooms.
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Looks awesome. Can't wait to get down there soon. Maybe this winter?
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Not thrilled by the LA inspired architecture.
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Just posted ths last month:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52247.0.html
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Not thrilled by the LA inspired architecture.
It has a certain industrial quality to it that fits, although who knows what the finished product will look like.
Maybe it needs more of this
(http://www.phxequip.com/multimedia/images/plant/original/dicalcium-phosphate-438.jpg)
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Incredible property.
I'm wondering though, what differentiates the two courses? Looking at the photos at the Streamsong web site, it seems both have a similar aesthetic... which probably isn't the case at all, when there in person.
Tom D. - I imagine there was serious effort by yours and Bill's crews to 'do something different' with each course?
Jeff:
We spoke about that some at the beginning, but I think that both Bill and I felt that if we just did our own thing, the courses would be different enough; and we didn't want to force things by each having a theme, any more than we normally do. We expected they'd look like cousins, but not twins, and I think that's how they've come out. I don't think you would mistake many of my holes for many of Bill's, or vice versa.
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I could not find on the website the routing map of the 2 courses. I understand that they are very close to each other with some holes maybe even being routed within the other course's routing. I'd love to see that when it is released. I had seen a few photos of the site but had been sworn to secrecy. Nice that we can all now see what this course looks like. It apprears to me that one could also easily get to Mountain Lake from Streamsong, so there will be plenty of reason to take a trip to this part of Florida.
Tom Doak, can you tell us how close this place is to Mountain Lake?
TS
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I could not find on the website the routing map of the 2 courses. I understand that they are very close to each other with some holes maybe even being routed within the other course's routing. I'd love to see that when it is released. I had seen a few photos of the site but had been sworn to secrecy. Nice that we can all now see what this course looks like. It apprears to me that one could also easily get to Mountain Lake from Streamsong, so there will be plenty of reason to take a trip to this part of Florida.
Tom Doak, can you tell us how close this place is to Mountain Lake?
TS
You are correct. Here's the routing:
(http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo271/freem109/Streamstrong-1.jpg)
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50968.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50968.0.html)
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I'm actually cautiously optimistic about the building architecture based on the renderings. I love the idea of really good modern architecture on golf courses as opposed to the typical pseudo-revival suburban McMansion, it's just that as in golf most building architects and clients just aren't that good.
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Man, that looks cool. The courses look like they were designed particularly with wind and ground options in mind. I assume the soil drains really well? Are visitors likely to feel healthy winds out there?
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No reason Streamsong can't be the winter Bandon. Much easier to travel to and the golf looks wonderful. The weather will be much more predictable than Bandon.
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No reason Streamsong can't be the winter Bandon. Much easier to travel to and the golf looks wonderful. The weather will be much more predictable than Bandon.
GCA Spring Training Outing?
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I take back everything I ever said about Florida.
Sincerely,
Matt Ward
(sorry Joe B ;) )
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No reason Streamsong can't be the winter Bandon. Much easier to travel to and the golf looks wonderful. The weather will be much more predictable than Bandon.
GCA Spring Training Outing?
Winner winner.
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A major, key element to the project's success will the daily vibe...can they get that special "it" feeling that the really great course destinations all have. Modern, edgy architecture can rob a bit of that potential; it just doesn't really compliment natural course presentations as well as more rustic, softer edged structures from my view.
If you look to Bandon and Kingsbarns, BY FAR... the two most financially successful golf destination products created in the last 15 years, BOTH have architecture that generally fits their surroundings, though I always thought KB could have a bit more complimentary landscape setting around the immediate clubhouse area.
They also BOTH have CADDIES, though the caliber and consistency of the experience has been uneven at both, especially in the early years. These are different times, mis-steps will be punished severely, and Streamsong needs to nail that vibe properly, or the place WILL struggle. Cart golf being the dominant form of play slated for there, due to the heat, will present another potential vibe killer. There are a lot of layers to get right on that daily presentation...we'll see what evolves? I for one hope they realize a "corporate" approach won't deliver what they need.
Tim G,
Yes, the soil drains really well. Tom Doak told the little troupe that was fortunate enough to tee it up there this past Winter that it IS a windy site ,especially for inland Florida. The day we played, it was more like Scotland! Light rain showers, the occasional squall, and it still was very good golfing ground, despite the conditions.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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Kris,
There's good architecture and bad. Modern's got nothing to do with it. Arguably building a phony interpretative recreation of a quaint british clubhouse is aesthetically more offensive than doing something representative of the courses' era and locale.
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I take back everything I ever said about Florida.
Sincerely,
Matt Ward
(sorry Joe B ;) )
Hey pardner,
Matt Ward is ahead of you here; he came out in January to get a tour of both courses.
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TD,
Hopefully he didn't wear out all the grass playing from the tips.
The two courses look like winners.
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I take back everything I ever said about Florida.
Sincerely,
Matt Ward
(sorry Joe B ;) )
Hey pardner,
Matt Ward is ahead of you here; he came out in January to get a tour of both courses.
Seeing (NOT hearing) Matt Ward at a loss for words has been one of the many joys of this experience.
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Cart golf being the dominant form of play slated for there, due to the heat, will present another potential vibe killer.
Golf season in that part of Florida is in the Winter. November thru April is very pleasant for the most part
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Seeing (NOT hearing) Matt Ward at a loss for words has been one of the many joys of this experience.
Matt Ward, speechless in FLA. That is sooooooooooooooooo 8)
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Is it just me or does the coore course look to be on the more rugged part of the property?
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Is it just me or does the coore course look to be on the more rugged part of the property?
Greg:
That's not just you. It's not 100% that way, but generally speaking, Bill took the more rugged ground. I think he thought that would surprise a lot of people, but you'd have to ask him that question; he has always credited picking the Red course to Jimbo Wright's expressed desire to work on the more difficult piece of ground so he'd be needed longer.
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Is it just me or does the coore course look to be on the more rugged part of the property?
Greg:
That's not just you. It's not 100% that way, but generally speaking, Bill took the more rugged ground. I think he thought that would surprise a lot of people, but you'd have to ask him that question; he has always credited picking the Red course to Jimbo Wright's expressed desire to work on the more difficult piece of ground so he'd be needed longer.
I would guss jimbo is a shaper who prefers florida to china?
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Is it just me or does the coore course look to be on the more rugged part of the property?
Greg:
That's not just you. It's not 100% that way, but generally speaking, Bill took the more rugged ground. I think he thought that would surprise a lot of people, but you'd have to ask him that question; he has always credited picking the Red course to Jimbo Wright's expressed desire to work on the more difficult piece of ground so he'd be needed longer.
I would guss jimbo is a shaper who prefers florida to china?
If you know any who prefer it the other way around, send them my contact info.
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Do we know anything about the prices at Streamsong yet?
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Jud,
Agreed. Who said anything about faux U.K. clubhouses being involved? It's about being complimentary to the given golf environment, not REPLICATING something just because it is found elsewhere.
John,
As a Florida resident the past 9 years, I'm familiar with the golf seasons there. Carts as the major mode of play can often detract from what most feel, experience wise, when they are playing "special"golf.
With a quality caddie dymamic in the mix, this can be blunted and even overcome, but as a guy who deeply studies this stuff, I look to the most financially successful destination models in the last 15 years, Bandon and Kinsbarns...NEITHER has the cart featured prominently. This irrefutable fact runs DEAD AGAINST what all the industry "Experts" would try mightly to convince you of. Wonder why? Because despite the PR spin to the contrary, great ground AND caddie golf of quality, in whatever model works best, DEFINES the truly great golf experiences.
You can play the most beautiful courses in the world, even in a cart, or walking yourself...but I'm sorry, unless you are a caddie hater(and there are plenty out there) or are socially challenged...it just isn't the same level. Need confirmation? Reel off ANY list of the best courses, worldwide, and caddie golf is present at a majority of them. Of those that don't, all would be enhanced AND their standing improved, with a quality caddie dymanic in play.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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Do we know anything about the prices at Streamsong yet?
Averages $175/round. More in winter. Less in summer
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/05/the-skinny-on-streamsong.html (http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/05/the-skinny-on-streamsong.html)
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I don't know what the green fees will be on opening day; odd that it doesn't show up on the tee time request page. However, I was told last week that the official Opening Day for the public is scheduled for Friday, December 14, 2012.
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The problem with caddies at Streamsong will be the location. It's a pretty long way from any meaningful population of people to fill the corps
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The problem with caddies at Streamsong will be the location. It's a pretty long way from any meaningful population of people to fill the corps
?? It is about a half hour's drive from Lakeland, which has a population of 94,000. That's not an easy drive, but not out of the question for a good job. Not like in Scotland, but not much different than Bandon [a bit further drive than from Coos Bay, for a lot more people].
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The problem with caddies at Streamsong will be the location. It's a pretty long way from any meaningful population of people to fill the corps
?? It is about a half hour's drive from Lakeland, which has a population of 94,000. That's not an easy drive, but not out of the question for a good job. Not like in Scotland, but not much different than Bandon [a bit further drive than from Coos Bay, for a lot more people].
Lakeland to Streamsong is about 30 miles
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John,
No more than it was at Bandon. There is more population there than you think. Jobs are scarce in that area. Lakeland is about 50 minutes drive, and there are many smaller communities slightly closer. Several of my Pebble Beach caddy buddies make a drive that long EVERYDAY.
Any quality caddie program, from the outset, will have: a mix of experienced, incomer caddies who have done the job for a living, the college and career change types of caliber, and then the local candidates, youger and older, which are melded into a cohesive, compentent team to deliver caddie golf in a solid presentation. It isn't easy and few really know how to do it. That's why the outsource, white suit crowd model has business, though their product is certainly not something to emulate.
Bandon and Kingsbarns had VERY mediocre programs when they started. They were fortunate. Times were different. That same approach, in today's crowded golf destination market will be punished...severely. No caddies there at Streamsong = a financial death sentence. The ground is special. It requires thought and knowledge to enjoy it to the fullest. Most visiting golfers will be confronted with a type of golf they don't see often. Many, unless they've been to Bandon or abroad, will NEVER have seen it. The courses will not be easy, especially in the wind, combined with the warmer conditions, playing over firm ground.
Quality caddies can greatly ease the strain and quickly put players in a nice comfort level. If folks are enjoying themselves, even when the course is kicking their ass a bit, they come away pleased with the experience. It's that simple. No cart, alone, can deliver that.
So few in the industry get it. Maybe Streamsong will...I hope they do.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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We'll see. The one thing the area has is a bunch of PGA pros from up north looking forwork in the winter. That will help more than anything
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Lived in Lakeland for many years, there will be no shortage of people to pull from for a caddie program at Streamsong. They will have more applicants than they know what to do with.
The last several comments make me feel better about my recent decision to ditch the GPS units and start up a caddie/forecaddie program. For those that think having the nearest popultaiton center 30 miles away as a problem... try having to develop a caddie program from a population with little or no knowledge of the game. Should be fun. First week - Calssroom sessions... this is a golf driver... this is a wedge... :). Regardless it will be fun and a nice addition to The Ocean Course and once we teach them proper caddying there will be less in the way of, how you say, "personality" to deal with on a daily basis as is typically the case.
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Was there ever a caddie program at World Woods?
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PGA professionals as caddies doesn't ensure anything, except...that you have some PGA professionals as caddies. There are a lot more skillsets, involved than just golf knowledge, to being a quality caddie. SELFLESSNESS, the ability to give a total, engaged effort, WITH PERSONALITY...AND good information...that is what makes for a great caddie experience at a destination (or Private) golf facility.
I have many friends who are PGA professionals, but frankly, and they admit it themselves, quite a few shouldn't be in the business. There's an art to being a top caddie. IT TAKES YEARS; but a competent level can certainly be reached, within a year or two, with candidates of caliber that are properly selected and mentored. Age and years one has caddied are IRRELEVANT: effort, passion and zeal to learn the craft are what count most.
Streamsong, according to the Mosaic company, was to be a jobs creator for COMMUNITY folk. Loading up a caddie staff with mostly outsiders, ESPECIALLY folks who already have other jobs, is hardly going to deliver on that promise. That's easy, and often the out-source model's way.
To develop and evolve a differencemaker for the community requires much more effort, but the rewards are exponentially greater.
Greg,
A warm hello to a fellow WVU alum! Ready for the BIG XII pards? I'm looking to head to Austin for the UT game, you planning on hitting that one?
Congrats for taking on trying to set up a caddie program. It will be work, but done properly you'll profit in more ways than you can imagine. I'll IM you my contact info and we can chat.
By the way, don't think that PERSONALITY is a problem with caddie development. It is the BIGGEST asset in delivering quality, memorable golf experiences. Sure, caddies need to know how to do a competent job, but HOW they do it, with VARIETY and some FLAIR when prudent, matters. It comes down to hiring folks that have good people skills and are able to quickly determine what the player wants. Drones that "know" golf are abundent in the game; personalities with passion for what they do, and are eager to learn AND share the game with others...they are in short supply. Same for caddies. My view has always been...bring a smile, good attitude and hustle to the game...we can teach you the rest.
Golf is a people game. Always has been. Destination golf is more about the memories business than anything else. Quality caddies give the course its human soul. They bring it to life, elevate its high notes AND help soften the tough moments. They add humor to the game and so much more.
WELL TREATED, properly mentored caddies, that HAVE personality, and are delivering a memorable day to folks, are ANY golf destination's best on-course asset. If the superintendent and the crew are presenting the course well, and everyone else is doing their job, the quality caddie experience seals the deal in the "great place" department. Golfers leave glad they came, often return, AND tell others they need to visit! It really gets no better than that.
Joe,
I'm not certain, but I highly doubt it. If there was, it was weak. Otherwise, it would still be there AND World Woods would have a much higher profile! That facility, from what you and others describe to me, is a perfect example of what not having a quality caddie program can cost a place. Now to be fair, caddie programs AREN'T a fit for every golf destination. If the golf architecture isn't of enough caliber, or the pricing/value of the model desired is on the lower, thrift scale...it won't flourish.
Recognize as well, I'm NOT a mandatory caddie proponent. That said, I FIRMLY believe if a golf facility has the ingredients to support a quality caddie program, and it is properly promoted...IT WILL flourish. Golfers WILL value it and HAPPILY pay for the caddie. Allow choice.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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There are a lot more skillsets, involved than just golf knowledge, to being a quality caddie. SELFLESSNESS, the ability to give a total, engaged effort, WITH PERSONALITY...AND good information...that is what makes for a great caddie experience at a destination (or Private) golf facility.
Well, Lakeland is known far and wide for having workers with those skill sets
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PGA professionals as caddies doesn't ensure anything, except...that you have some PGA professionals as caddies. There are a lot more skillsets, involved than just golf knowledge, to being a quality caddie. SELFLESSNESS, the ability to give a total, engaged effort, WITH PERSONALITY...AND good information...that is what makes for a great caddie experience at a destination (or Private) golf facility.
I have many friends who are PGA professionals, but frankly, and they admit it themselves, quite a few shouldn't be in the business. There's an art to being a top caddie. IT TAKES YEARS; but a competent level can certainly be reached, within a year or two, with candidates of caliber that are properly selected and mentored. Age and years one has caddied are IRRELEVANT: effort, passion and zeal to learn the craft are what count most.
Streamsong, according to the Mosaic company, was to be a jobs creator for COMMUNITY folk. Loading up a caddie staff with mostly outsiders, ESPECIALLY folks who already have other jobs, is hardly going to deliver on that promise. That's easy, and often the out-source model's way.
To develop and evolve a differencemaker for the community requires much more effort, but the rewards are exponentially greater.
Greg,
A warm hello to a fellow WVU alum! Ready for the BIG XII pards? I'm looking to head to Austin for the UT game, you planning on hitting that one?
Congrats for taking on trying to set up a caddie program. It will be work, but done properly you'll profit in more ways than you can imagine. I'll IM you my contact info and we can chat.
By the way, don't think that PERSONALITY is a problem with caddie development. It is the BIGGEST asset in delivering quality, memorable golf experiences. Sure, caddies need to know how to do a competent job, but HOW they do it, with VARIETY and some FLAIR when prudent, matters. It comes down to hiring folks that have good people skills and are able to quickly determine what the player wants. Drones that "know" golf are abundent in the game; personalities with passion for what they do, and are eager to learn AND share the game with others...they are in short supply. Same for caddies. My view has always been...bring a smile, good attitude and hustle to the game...we can teach you the rest.
Golf is a people game. Always has been. Destination golf is more about the memories business than anything else. Quality caddies give the course its human soul. They bring it to life, elevate its high notes AND help soften the tough moments. They add humor to the game and so much more.
WELL TREATED, properly mentored caddies, that HAVE personality, and are delivering a memorable day to folks, are ANY golf destination's best on-course asset. If the superintendent and the crew are presenting the course well, and everyone else is doing their job, the quality caddie experience seals the deal in the "great place" department. Golfers leave glad they came, often return, AND tell others they need to visit! It really gets no better than that.
Joe,
I'm not certain, but I highly doubt it. If there was, it was weak. Otherwise, it would still be there AND World Woods would have a much higher profile! That facility, from what you and others describe to me, is a perfect example of what not having a quality caddie program can cost a place. Now to be fair, caddie programs AREN'T a fit for every golf destination. If the golf architecture isn't of enough caliber, or the pricing/value of the model desired is on the lower, thrift scale...it won't flourish.
Recognize as well, I'm NOT a mandatory caddie proponent. That said, I FIRMLY believe if a golf facility has the ingredients to support a quality caddie program, and it is properly promoted...IT WILL flourish. Golfers WILL value it and HAPPILY pay for the caddie. Allow choice.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
Kris, not an alum actually... no golf program to pay the freight! Hopefully we will be getting golf back beginning in 2013.
In terms of what makes a good caddie, I do not disagree but too much personality can certainly be a drawback... too many trying to be entertainers from my experiences. Not looking for a "drone" but those that would certainly that would err on the side of saying nothing versus being a problem. It's one thing for a mid 50s Scottish lifetime caddie to come up with a biting quip about your game or recent shot but quite abnother for a younger kid to do so.
Being in a foreign country where language presents an issue, the local nightlife presents an issue and the intentions of many a guest presents an issue and you begin to understand my preference for the quieter type caddie.
Definitely making it to Austin this year. Looking at Marshall, Texas and maybe Kansas State games this season. Cannot get away for the OU game which is killing me.
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Is it just me or does the coore course look to be on the more rugged part of the property?
Greg:
That's not just you. It's not 100% that way, but generally speaking, Bill took the more rugged ground. I think he thought that would surprise a lot of people, but you'd have to ask him that question; he has always credited picking the Red course to Jimbo Wright's expressed desire to work on the more difficult piece of ground so he'd be needed longer.
I would guss jimbo is a shaper who prefers florida to china?
If you know any who prefer it the other way around, send them my contact info.
Tom,
I prefer China to Florida, but alas I am not a shaper ;)
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Jimbo is a good ole Texas boy. It was great getting to know him, Jeff Bradley and Keith Rhebb on this job. It's easier to go home for a 3 day weekend once or twice a month being in Florida than if you were in China of course.
I live in Lakeland and its 22 mile to drive for me. No where near a 50 minute drive someone mention unless you have to wait on a train.
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Michael B,
Thanks for the mileage/time check. I've not physically made that Lakeland-Streamsong commute, so I wasn't sure. It's kind of country down that way, what with some of those backroads, but I imagine you can fly on them if you want. It's a piece of cake to commute from that area for a good caddie job from what you describe, and I'm not even taking into account the closer, smaller towns in the area.
John,
C'mon pards, I've stated all along, A MIX of incomer vets AND locals is the call there at Streamsong. Again, you're not giving the area much credit. The Mocs of Florida Southern, who I believe recently won an NCAA D2 or D3 National Championship, are right there in that Lakeland area. Florida's High School golf programs in the area are LOADED with good kids that know the game and can play. Remember, Streamsong is only and hour and change from Tampa and Orlando, two golf giants...even if most of the GCA is substandard in relation to our lofty expectations.
It will come down to who's crafting that caddie program, and how well they understand all the layers that are involved in delivering one that can quickly evolve into one of consistent caliber.. with a deep bench.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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Can't wait to visit Steamsong. I hope that someone will organize a GCA outing, it would be a great venue to spend a few days. and I bet we could get a large, enthusiastic group.
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Was there ever a caddie program at World Woods?
Definitely no. I started playing World Woods right when it opened and there were never caddies. They also highly discouraged walking and maybe didn't allow it. I walked both courses the first time I was there but my playing partner drove a cart with my bag on it.
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Was there ever a caddie program at World Woods?
Definitely no. I started playing World Woods right when it opened and there were never caddies. They also highly discouraged walking and maybe didn't allow it. I walked both courses the first time I was there but my playing partner drove a cart with my bag on it.
One of many things where WW missed a window of opportunity back in the day. The place has not changed in 16 years. Played there in December, walked into the same clubhouse with seemingly the same carpet, tables, chairs and crotchety locals as 16 years ago. I commented to my buddy... "Wow, not a thing has changed here" to which one of the crotchety locals shoots back "Nope and why the hell should it?".. I then tried to order a Diet Coke... but no luck... "Haven't went to the store yet this morning." so I wink at the local and smile... "There ya go."
So much potential there. Very similar to Streamsong in terms of proximity to population centers. looks like Streamsong has the right plan... may revisit looking into WW in a couple of years.
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But you can play WW for $100 or so. Personally, I'll forgo the caddie, the nice clubhouse and even the diet Coke for tremendous golf at a more than reasonable price.
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I'm really looking forward to Streamsong opening. Because of its east coast location I think it may become just as popular if not more so than Bandon. I know I will probably be visiting SS before Bandon.
Of course it's dependent upon the quality of both courses, which from pictures and comments on here seems there will be no lack in that department.
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Was there ever a caddie program at World Woods?
Definitely no. I started playing World Woods right when it opened and there were never caddies. They also highly discouraged walking and maybe didn't allow it. I walked both courses the first time I was there but my playing partner drove a cart with my bag on it.
One of many things where WW missed a window of opportunity back in the day. The place has not changed in 16 years. Played there in December, walked into the same clubhouse with seemingly the same carpet, tables, chairs and crotchety locals as 16 years ago. I commented to my buddy... "Wow, not a thing has changed here" to which one of the crotchety locals shoots back "Nope and why the hell should it?".. I then tried to order a Diet Coke... but no luck... "Haven't went to the store yet this morning." so I wink at the local and smile... "There ya go."
So much potential there. Very similar to Streamsong in terms of proximity to population centers. looks like Streamsong has the right plan... may revisit looking into WW in a couple of years.
As a somewhat local golfer I can walk up to WW at 3PM, play the short course and one of the big ones for under $60 with plenty of daylight to spare.
Don't. Change. A. Thing.
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But you can play WW for $100 or so. Personally, I'll forgo the caddie, the nice clubhouse and even the diet Coke for tremendous golf at a more than reasonable price.
Cliff, Sorry but I must have a Diet Coke before playing! What the "it is wonderful as is" crowd fails to realize is that it won't be around forever as is. I would be shocked if it breaks even today.There would be nothing negative about putting some nice lodging options on property and creating a great destination golf property versus what amounts to a terribly remote public golf course.
The wealthy old man does not have too many years left and when the kids take over we shall see.
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I don't know what the green fees will be on opening day; odd that it doesn't show up on the tee time request page. However, I was told last week that the official Opening Day for the public is scheduled for Friday, December 14, 2012.
Anyone know when the accomodations will be opening?
looks like some intriguing architecture.
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Anyone know when the accomodations will be opening?
looks like some intriguing architecture.
The clubhouse with 16 guest rooms opens with the courses on December 14. The resort is scheduled to open Q4 2013. See pg. 9 (though not numbered) of this document for a timeline:
http://www.streamsongresort.com/pdf/Streamsong-Facts-Kit-03-2012-2.pdf (http://www.streamsongresort.com/pdf/Streamsong-Facts-Kit-03-2012-2.pdf)
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I'm really looking forward to Streamsong opening. Because of its east coast location I think it may become just as popular if not more so than Bandon. I know I will probably be visiting SS before Bandon.
If Streamsong becomes more popular than Bandon I'll buy you a new hat.
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Popular is not a fair measure given you can only do so much with Florida. That doesn't mean that the courses will not generate the most revenue for their owners.
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Thanks to Southwest I can leave Nashville in the morning, get in 54 holes at Streamsong and sleep in my bed the next evening. I'll return to Bandon if I miss the sleet.
Bogey
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Thanks to Southwest I can leave Nashville in the morning, get in 54 holes at Streamsong and sleep in my bed the next evening. I'll return to Bandon if I miss the sleet.
Bogey
That was really some ghastly weather a year ago March!
Those who already live in the South will be okay at Streamsong in the summer.
Those who live in the North and South will appreciate the mild winter weather. With the Doak and C&C courses, this looks like genius!
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Thanks to Southwest I can leave Nashville in the morning, get in 54 holes at Streamsong and sleep in my bed the next evening. I'll return to Bandon if I miss the sleet.
Come on, the sleet was invigorating. I could have done without the hail, however. In any event since then I have limited myself to Bandon in the summer months.
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The problem with caddies at Streamsong will be the location. It's a pretty long way from any meaningful population of people to fill the corps
?? It is about a half hour's drive from Lakeland, which has a population of 94,000. That's not an easy drive, but not out of the question for a good job. Not like in Scotland, but not much different than Bandon [a bit further drive than from Coos Bay, for a lot more people].
FYI, many of the caddies at Bandon winter in Arizona and Palm Springs, then return for high season @ Bandon...thus the caddie quality is high with lots of double bagging for 36.
Most of these caddies live in Bandon on a rental basis, thanks
I do agree the cart thing in Florida is a bad thing for SS red or blue, we will see.
At least at Whistling Straits it is walking only, smart move by Kohler.
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At least at Whistling Straits it is walking only, smart move by Kohler.
The Straits course is walking only. Carts are permitted on the Irish course.
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I found it very easy to identify who the designer was on most of those images just from the look and comparing it to their other work. I find this intereting given that the designers "swapped" some holes to make the final 36 work as 2 x 18.
13 Blue appealed to me. How long is that hole, I assume it is drivable in some conditions.
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At least at Whistling Straits it is walking only, smart move by Kohler.
The Straits course is walking only. Carts are permitted on the Irish course.
yes it is confusing for many that there are 2 courses at Whistling Straits, because few talk about the Irish.
likewise, Blackwolf Run has 2 courses, Valley and Meadow, but you always hear about Blackwolf Run...confusing, especially as they will be using a combination of holes for the US Women's Open which amount to the first 18 holes built by Dey there.
Looking forward to playing SS both Red and Blue
thanks
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William,
The oppressive heat, during a significant part of the Florida year down there, will be the main reason carts will figure prominantly at Streamsong. The walks, while not easy, aren't really difficult. The temps, particularly during the middle portion of the day during the summer months, will be a challenge for players.
Seasonal rentals in the Streamsong area are scarce to say the least.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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I haven't played it in over a decade, but there is a course in Ft. Pierce called St. James Bay that used to get a bad rap from the locals because there weren't any trees near the tees, or even to the sides of the fairways, to duck under on a hot day. I liked it because it was open, decent, but no shade made it relatively empty for a course in that particular area. The sun wasn't too punishing in January, but by mid to late march a well placed tree or two would have been a welcome addition.
A few smartly placed oases could have helped STB increase its traffic, especially the hoofer variety. I don't know if it's something the folks at SS considered, but it could add to the walking traffic if they did.
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Jim,
A better idea. The club should rent push carts with mounted sunshades (umbrellas). That way the shade is everywhere on the course.
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Should we not wait till course is open to play before coming to conclsions
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I found it very easy to identify who the designer was on most of those images just from the look and comparing it to their other work. I find this intereting given that the designers "swapped" some holes to make the final 36 work as 2 x 18.
13 Blue appealed to me. How long is that hole, I assume it is drivable in some conditions.
Just nitpicking here, but I do not believe Mr. Doak said they swapped holes, per se.
I think each firm designed and built their own 18
What Tom did say is through the design and routing process, some of the "holes" Mr. Coore discovered and proposed utilizing to build his course, ended up being used on the Doak course. I can well imagine some of the basics of those holes---such as whether it is/was a par 3, 4 or 5, and maybe even which way it doglegs, where a nice big sand blow out would/could be utilized as a bunker, etc. is featured and WOULD HAVE been featured on a hole designed and built by either group.
But I am pretty sure each group built their own course.
Tom said the original plan was 18 holes, but they found enough good land for 36.
36 holes in the sandy blowout dunesy land was only going to work, routing wise, however, if they sequenced the holes in some semblance of a fashion where green to tee traffic made sense.
I'm also sure nobody wanted a course with a bunch of par 5s and par 3s in a row or an "unbalanced" course.
So, long story short, it was through the process of making 36 work on the site, that some original parcels of land Mr. Coore thought would be well-suited to his golf course, ended up being utilized, designed upon and constructed, by Mr. Doak.
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TB,
I'm not trying to draw any conclusions, only making an observation about the problem's that faced one shadeless FL golf course, especially as it related to walkers.
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Curious what others think of the clubhouse renderings inserted in the fine photo gallery showing holes of both courses. Those that know me can guess my take. Thoughts?
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Looks like the marketing machine has shifted into second gear: Good article in this month's Golf Digest under "Two Courses/Two Perspectives". Both Ron Whitten and Matt Ginella are smitten. "Annie, get your clubs"....
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Is it true the opening date is December 14? If so I couldn't think of a better birthday present than a free round at each... ::)
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Is it true the opening date is December 14? If so I couldn't think of a better birthday present than a free round at each... ::)
Thanks Chris. Now I know what to ask for for Christmas!
Bogey
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Because of its east coast location I think it may become just as popular if not more so than Bandon.
The problem is Josh its missing a giant body of water called an ocean, that is one of the main appeal of Bandon, views!
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Because of its east coast location I think it may become just as popular if not more so than Bandon.
The problem is Josh its missing a giant body of water called an ocean, that is one of the main appeal of Bandon, views!
I have heard that the view from #1 on the Blue is supposed to be pretty phenomenal!
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Because of its east coast location I think it may become just as popular if not more so than Bandon.
The problem is Josh its missing a giant body of water called an ocean, that is one of the main appeal of Bandon, views!
Haha! That is one thing that will never compare to Bandon...central Florida is not exactly the most beautiful place in the world.
Still though, I'm very excited for this place to open...already put in my request for tee times on their website.
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Because of its east coast location I think it may become just as popular if not more so than Bandon.
The problem is Josh its missing a giant body of water called an ocean, that is one of the main appeal of Bandon, views!
But it's got heat, humidity, and insects!
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Because of its east coast location I think it may become just as popular if not more so than Bandon.
The problem is Josh its missing a giant body of water called an ocean, that is one of the main appeal of Bandon, views!
Last guy I talked to said his favorites were Bandon Dunes and Pacific Dunes, because of the ocean.
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People go to Pebble for the view. Golfers go to Bandon; if the tee sheet is open on Trails cause the lemmings are lining up at BD then I can get around on the superior track quicker. Seriously given how much crap everyone gives Florida golf Streamsong is a very exciting development, particularly for winter golf for east coasters north of DC.
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People go to Pebble for the view. Golfers go to Bandon;
Jud, Why no love for the Pebble area? The area has arguably better golf than Bandon- think Pebble, Cypress Point, MPCC Dunes and Shore, Spyglass. I assume you have played each of these multiple times? I have and and my impression is that very serious golfers go to Pebble- its the people who can't access the privates in the Pebble area who fail to see the highest level of year round golf in the USA. As an aside I am looking forward to playing Streamsong this January.
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Jack,
1. You see a lot more wealthy tourists at Pebble who aren't hard core golfers than at Bandon. The high cost, the luxury amenities and the views insure it.
2. VERY few can access Cypress, myself included, and I'm more connected than most.
3. I don't dislike Pebble, I just prefer Bandon. Bandon is links golf, They have 3+ world class courses and it's half as expensive.
4. If I go to Pebble again it will be once to take my son. I'll go back to Bandon as often as possible.
5. The discussion is about Streamsong, an exciting new PUBLIC destination. If we're talking privates I'll take Long Island all day long over the Monterey peninsula. The public options in toto at Pebble are inferior to Bandon IMO and dramatically more expensive.
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People go to Pebble for the view. Golfers go to Bandon;
Jud, Why no love for the Pebble area? The area has arguably better golf than Bandon- think Pebble, Cypress Point, MPCC Dunes and Shore, Spyglass. I assume you have played each of these multiple times? I have and and my impression is that very serious golfers go to Pebble- its the people who can't access the privates in the Pebble area who fail to see the highest level of year round golf in the USA. As an aside I am looking forward to playing Streamsong this January.
Hi Jack,
Year round golf per se is not necessarily the greartest in the Carmel/Monterey area, as the mud balls occur everywhere except MPCC Shore.
That being said, the golf in and around the area is unprecedented from SF to Carmel.
If you didn't work you could easily play a different great course each day for 2-3 weeks.
The Carmel area offers world class apres golf and Bandon doesn't.
Bandon offers the best golf resort in the world and Carmel/Monterey doesn't.
The golf this time of year is great up and down the coast from Carmel to Victoria.
Hope to see you again sometime.
Oh yeah, no carts at Bandon, LOL
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4. If I go to Pebble again it will be once to take my son. I'll go back to Bandon as often as possible.
Absolutely...I had the good fortune of living in San Francisco for four years and played Pebble Beach four times in those four years. I am glad I did and have no regrets, but I am not rushing back there and really have no desire to play it again until my son is old enough to make the trip and enjoy the experience...
I will however go back to Bandon as often as possible...
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People go to Pebble for the view. Golfers go to Bandon;
Jud, Why no love for the Pebble area? The area has arguably better golf than Bandon- think Pebble, Cypress Point, MPCC Dunes and Shore, Spyglass. I assume you have played each of these multiple times? I have and and my impression is that very serious golfers go to Pebble- its the people who can't access the privates in the Pebble area who fail to see the highest level of year round golf in the USA. As an aside I am looking forward to playing Streamsong this January.
Hi Jack,
Year round golf per se is not necessarily the greartest in the Carmel/Monterey area, as the mud balls occur everywhere except MPCC Shore.
That being said, the golf in and around the area is unprecedented from SF to Carmel.
If you didn't work you could easily play a different great course each day for 2-3 weeks.
The Carmel area offers world class apres golf and Bandon doesn't.
Bandon offers the best golf resort in the world and Carmel/Monterey doesn't.
The golf this time of year is great up and down the coast from Carmel to Victoria.
Hope to see you again sometime.
Oh yeah, no carts at Bandon, LOL
Gray, I agree that Bandon is a super place to play- hard sell for me with my wife who is a nongolfer. Carmel on the other hand is very easy, between the shopping and spa its a no brainer. Can't say that I've ever had really bad weather there and we've gone in every month except January and August . My guess is Ive visited Pebble 12 times over the years and had the good fortune to play everything both public and private. For year round top shelf golf it is unsurpassed in the USA. LA has great weather yearround but only 3 or 4 really good courses. The trip is also a lot easier from San Jose than the drive from Portland to Bandon. Hope to see you in Chicago one of these Summers- we have some interesting architecture- its not Long Island but still solid.
Jack
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Resort wise, my top four, in order, are Bandon Dunes, Pinehurst, Pebble Beach and Hilton Head. They are all great. I have hope that Streamsong could quickly slide into the fifth position, given the anticipated quality of the architecture, the Florida weather, the ease of travel and the anticipated amenities of the resort. That's pretty amazing when you think about it, because there are a lot of other resorts in America that I've frequented that I really enjoy, like Innisbrook, Sawgrass, LaCosta, Boca Raton.
To me, there are pluses and minuses at every resort. The golf, in my opinion, is simply unparalleled at Bandon Dunes. But, there's precious little else to do on property and the lure of the town is not that great. The food is good, but not great. And, not for nothing, it is somewhat arduous to get to Bandon for most people, amounting to a day travel each way without golf arriving or departing. Pebble Beach and Spyglass Hill are awesome golf courses, but Spanish Bay is several notches below, at best. The Lodge is just great, but there's an attitude of superiority at Pebble that gets a little tiresome as a guest, as does the ridiculous pricing structure. But it's Pebble Fricking Beach, with its majestic views and terrific institutional history and Carmel is about as good as it gets, with Big Sur not that far away. Pinehurst, to me, is really special. The town is great, the variety and quality of golf on the resort is waaaaay above average and #2 is a national treasure. Hilton Head has a bunch of great golf (public and private), terrific restaurants and isn't that hard to get to.
Streamsong has a lot of potential. It's a little remote, but not that bad. The quality of the architecture is going to be top drawer. To think that it could vault into the top five resorts in America is bold, but not out of the question. And that's a pretty cool thing.
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People go to Pebble for the view. Golfers go to Bandon;
Jud, Why no love for the Pebble area? The area has arguably better golf than Bandon- think Pebble, Cypress Point, MPCC Dunes and Shore, Spyglass. I assume you have played each of these multiple times? I have and and my impression is that very serious golfers go to Pebble- its the people who can't access the privates in the Pebble area who fail to see the highest level of year round golf in the USA. As an aside I am looking forward to playing Streamsong this January.
Hi Jack,
Year round golf per se is not necessarily the greartest in the Carmel/Monterey area, as the mud balls occur everywhere except MPCC Shore.
That being said, the golf in and around the area is unprecedented from SF to Carmel.
If you didn't work you could easily play a different great course each day for 2-3 weeks.
The Carmel area offers world class apres golf and Bandon doesn't.
Bandon offers the best golf resort in the world and Carmel/Monterey doesn't.
The golf this time of year is great up and down the coast from Carmel to Victoria.
Hope to see you again sometime.
Oh yeah, no carts at Bandon, LOL
Gray, I agree that Bandon is a super place to play- hard sell for me with my wife who is a nongolfer. Carmel on the other hand is very easy, between the shopping and spa its a no brainer. Can't say that I've ever had really bad weather there and we've gone in every month except January and August . My guess is Ive visited Pebble 12 times over the years and had the good fortune to play everything both public and private. For year round top shelf golf it is unsurpassed in the USA. LA has great weather yearround but only 3 or 4 really good courses. The trip is also a lot easier from San Jose than the drive from Portland to Bandon. Hope to see you in Chicago one of these Summers- we have some interesting architecture- its not Long Island but still solid.
Jack
Jack
Looking forward to SS when I go with the fam to WDW next year.
FWIW, I grew up going to Carmel all the time, and we still go for holidays.
Clearly you can go to Monterey/Carmel and have a great time w/o golf at all, same with SF or LA, so when you play the non-golfing wife card, Bandon becomes challlenging in a comparison study.
For a golf resort, Bandon is the best in the world, but we've gone to the town of Bandon as a family for vacation and not played golf :o, it's a nice getaway as their is no population there.
Look forward to a return to the Chicago area hopefully next year.
Thanks
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Resort wise, my top four, in order, are Bandon Dunes, Pinehurst, Pebble Beach and Hilton Head. They are all great. I have hope that Streamsong could quickly slide into the fifth position, given the anticipated quality of the architecture, the Florida weather, the ease of travel and the anticipated amenities of the resort. That's pretty amazing when you think about it, because there are a lot of other resorts in America that I've frequented that I really enjoy, like Innisbrook, Sawgrass, LaCosta, Boca Raton.
To me, there are pluses and minuses at every resort. The golf, in my opinion, is simply unparalleled at Bandon Dunes. But, there's precious little else to do on property and the lure of the town is not that great. The food is good, but not great. And, not for nothing, it is somewhat arduous to get to Bandon for most people, amounting to a day travel each way without golf arriving or departing. Pebble Beach and Spyglass Hill are awesome golf courses, but Spanish Bay is several notches below, at best. The Lodge is just great, but there's an attitude of superiority at Pebble that gets a little tiresome as a guest, as does the ridiculous pricing structure. But it's Pebble Fricking Beach, with its majestic views and terrific institutional history and Carmel is about as good as it gets, with Big Sur not that far away. Pinehurst, to me, is really special. The town is great, the variety and quality of golf on the resort is waaaaay above average and #2 is a national treasure. Hilton Head has a bunch of great golf (public and private), terrific restaurants and isn't that hard to get to.
Streamsong has a lot of potential. It's a little remote, but not that bad. The quality of the architecture is going to be top drawer. To think that it could vault into the top five resorts in America is bold, but not out of the question. And that's a pretty cool thing.
Terry:
Mike Keiser's take when he visited this spring was that there isn't a golf resort on the east coast that has two courses as good as Streamsong. I don't know if he was just comparing the second-best courses or the sum of the top two, but I'd wager it will be hard enough to pick the second best course at Streamsong that it probably wins on both counts. Wish it was open already, it's been a long wait!
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Tom,
Mike said the same thing to me a month or so ago and also indicated that the Evans Scholars Foundation has picked Streamsong for our next big road trip fundraiser.
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It seems like Streamsong will also be a little out of the way, even if not nearly as much as Bandon.
What if any non-golf activities will be available? And how convient/close to the resort?
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Guys! Streamsong is NOT remote in the least!
Bandon is remote, SH iand Ballyneal are remote. Cabot, Kingsley are remote. Shucks even Hilton Head isn't easy/cheap to get to .....
BUT,
steramsong is an hour 20 from ORLANDO, which connects directly with tons of places , and an hour+ from Tampa, no " minor league" airport in itself......
Immediately adjacent to a major airport, NO, BUT " remote",no way.......
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Guys! Streamsong is NOT remote in the least!
Bandon is remote, SH iand Ballyneal are remote. Cabot, Kingsley are remote. Shucks even Hilton Head isn't easy/cheap to get to .....
BUT,
steramsong is an hour 20 from ORLANDO, which connects directly with tons of places , and an hour+ from Tampa, no " minor league" airport in itself......
Immediately adjacent to a major airport, NO, BUT " remote",no way.......
While not remote in the sense of Bandon, Streamsong is a bit isolated. There is no other lodging for 20-30 minutes. There is small amount of dining in Ft Meade (may I recommend John's?), but for real choices to eat you have to make the half hour drive to Lakeland.
It's not a hard place to get to if you are going there for a weekend. But it is still a bit remote.
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While not remote in the sense of Bandon, Streamsong is a bit isolated. There is no other lodging for 20-30 minutes. There is small amount of dining in Ft Meade (may I recommend John's?), but for real choices to eat you have to make the half hour drive to Lakeland.
Do not underestimate the fine food and beverage at 7 Star in Bradley Junction
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Thanks Austin, this was my point...
It doesn't matter what the actual distance is for remoteness. The question is, will the golfer make the effort in the evening post round(s)?
And my guess is, most who play at Streamsong won't be interested in traveling much more than 15 minutes off site to get a meal or hit a bar...I know I sure as hell wouldn't.
So whether the action is 30 minutes away or 3 hours away...for all intentional purposes its the same thing from the viewpoint of a golfer at the resort.
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People go to Pebble for the view. Golfers go to Bandon;
Jud, Why no love for the Pebble area? The area has arguably better golf than Bandon- think Pebble, Cypress Point, MPCC Dunes and Shore, Spyglass. I assume you have played each of these multiple times? I have and and my impression is that very serious golfers go to Pebble- its the people who can't access the privates in the Pebble area who fail to see the highest level of year round golf in the USA. As an aside I am looking forward to playing Streamsong this January.
Golfweek Modern
2. Pacific Dunes 9.10
(2, r) Bandon, Ore.
2001, Tom Doak
3. Old Macdonald 8.66
(3, r) Bandon, Ore.
2010, Tom Doak, Jim Urbina
7. Bandon Dunes 8.31
(7, r) Bandon, Ore.
1999, David McLay Kidd
17. Spyglass Hill Golf Club 7.86
(16, r) Pebble Beach, Calif.
1966, Robert Trent Jones Sr.
26. Bandon Trails 7.61
(29, r) Bandon, Ore.
2005, Bill Coore, Ben Crenshaw
38. Monterey Peninsula CC (Shore) 7.45
(41, p) Pebble Beach, Calif.
2005, Michael Strantz; Robert Baldock,
Jack Neville (1961)
Golfweek Classic
2. Cypress Point Club 9.48
(2, p) Pebble Beach, Calif.
1928, Alister MacKenzie
9. Pebble Beach Golf Links 8.88
(9, p) Pebble Beach, Calif.
1919, Douglas Grant, Jack Neville
Bandon: Sum of Rank 38
Pebble: Sum of Rank 66
Bandon: Sum of Rating 33.68
Pebble: Sum of Rating 33.67
I guess you could argue for .01 better.
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I hope that Streamsong has a bit of secluded feel to it, but being within an hours drive of Tampa or Orlando airports, it will most definitely be easier for the Eastern US to get to than Bandon.
I am also envisioning many fatherless families at Disney World once Streamsong opens.
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Josh
It definitely has a secluded feel.
Kalen is basically correct, I expect the Streamsong golfer will be taking all food and bev on site
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Because of its east coast location I think it may become just as popular if not more so than Bandon.
The problem is Josh its missing a giant body of water called an ocean, that is one of the main appeal of Bandon, views!
I have heard that the view from #1 on the Blue is supposed to be pretty phenomenal!
Can you see the ocean from there?
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Resort wise, my top four, in order, are Bandon Dunes, Pinehurst, Pebble Beach and Hilton Head. They are all great. I have hope that Streamsong could quickly slide into the fifth position, given the anticipated quality of the architecture, the Florida weather, the ease of travel and the anticipated amenities of the resort. That's pretty amazing when you think about it, because there are a lot of other resorts in America that I've frequented that I really enjoy, like Innisbrook, Sawgrass, LaCosta, Boca Raton.
To me, there are pluses and minuses at every resort. The golf, in my opinion, is simply unparalleled at Bandon Dunes. But, there's precious little else to do on property and the lure of the town is not that great. The food is good, but not great. And, not for nothing, it is somewhat arduous to get to Bandon for most people, amounting to a day travel each way without golf arriving or departing. Pebble Beach and Spyglass Hill are awesome golf courses, but Spanish Bay is several notches below, at best. The Lodge is just great, but there's an attitude of superiority at Pebble that gets a little tiresome as a guest, as does the ridiculous pricing structure. But it's Pebble Fricking Beach, with its majestic views and terrific institutional history and Carmel is about as good as it gets, with Big Sur not that far away. Pinehurst, to me, is really special. The town is great, the variety and quality of golf on the resort is waaaaay above average and #2 is a national treasure. Hilton Head has a bunch of great golf (public and private), terrific restaurants and isn't that hard to
Streamsong has a lot of potential. It's a little remote, but not that bad. The quality of the architecture is going to be top drawer. To think that it could vault into the top five resorts in America is bold, but not out of the question. And that's a pretty cool thing.
Terry:
Mike Keiser's take when he visited this spring was that there isn't a golf resort on the east coast that has two courses as good as Streamsong. I don't know if he was just comparing the second-best courses or the sum of the top two, but I'd wager it will be hard enough to pick the second best course at Streamsong that it probably wins on both counts. Wish it was open already, it's been a long wait!
MK had very strong praise for SS when he visited here last winter. Chatted about his flrtation with World Woods and the sense I got was that he was relieved that did not happen as it was obvious that the desparity in quality between WW and SS was rather significant in his mind. Of course he might well be the president of the TD/CC fan club so... ;)
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Likely one of the first extended reviews of Streamsong is via the NY Met's Greg Midland:
http://www.mgagolf.org/news/2012/october/streamsong (http://www.mgagolf.org/news/2012/october/streamsong)
...Two 18-hole courses are unlike anything else in Florida.
... Ranks among the most dramatic and visually stimulating anywhere.
...These courses fully embrace the land and embody the game's newest and most admirable trends: firm, fast and fun.
And, how great does this place look...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metgolf/sets/72157631567200387/show/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metgolf/sets/72157631567200387/show/)
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Looks fantastic, thanks for the article/photos/
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Resort wise, my top four, in order, are Bandon Dunes, Pinehurst, Pebble Beach and Hilton Head. They are all great. I have hope that Streamsong could quickly slide into the fifth position, given the anticipated quality of the architecture, the Florida weather, the ease of travel and the anticipated amenities of the resort. That's pretty amazing when you think about it, because there are a lot of other resorts in America that I've frequented that I really enjoy, like Innisbrook, Sawgrass, LaCosta, Boca Raton.
To me, there are pluses and minuses at every resort. The golf, in my opinion, is simply unparalleled at Bandon Dunes. But, there's precious little else to do on property and the lure of the town is not that great. The food is good, but not great. And, not for nothing, it is somewhat arduous to get to Bandon for most people, amounting to a day travel each way without golf arriving or departing. Pebble Beach and Spyglass Hill are awesome golf courses, but Spanish Bay is several notches below, at best. The Lodge is just great, but there's an attitude of superiority at Pebble that gets a little tiresome as a guest, as does the ridiculous pricing structure. But it's Pebble Fricking Beach, with its majestic views and terrific institutional history and Carmel is about as good as it gets, with Big Sur not that far away. Pinehurst, to me, is really special. The town is great, the variety and quality of golf on the resort is waaaaay above average and #2 is a national treasure. Hilton Head has a bunch of great golf (public and private), terrific restaurants and isn't that hard to get to.
Streamsong has a lot of potential. It's a little remote, but not that bad. The quality of the architecture is going to be top drawer. To think that it could vault into the top five resorts in America is bold, but not out of the question. And that's a pretty cool thing.
Terry-
Have you been to Sea Island?
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Terry,
No love for the beer and brat cruise on the way to Whistling Straits? 8)
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Just booked my tee times....pumped for February.
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It seems like Streamsong will also be a little out of the way, even if not nearly as much as Bandon.
What if any non-golf activities will be available? And how convient/close to the resort?
Orlando International Airport is a super busy yet easy-to-navigate airport with direct flights to most American cities. Then Streamsong is an easy drive.
I live in & fly out of MCO a few times a month, tourism is the main industry, millions of people a year don't find it 'out of the way'.
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"Parts of the Red and Blue looked like Royal Melbourne in Australia. Others resembled Lahinch in Ireland. Still more holes clearly like nothing else. Everywhere you look are sharp ridges, lakes, mounds and dunes of all sizes and shapes. There are green complexes filled into cozy corners and others cut up into elevation. There is sweep. There is majesty. THere is variety. And there are idiosyncrasies."
Another great feature on Streamsong courtesy of Global Golf Post:
http://digital.globalgolfpost.com/globalgolfpost/20121022#pg12 (http://digital.globalgolfpost.com/globalgolfpost/20121022#pg12)
It's accompanied with a video on how TD and C&C divvied up the site to create their respective courses.
http://digital.globalgolfpost.com/globalgolfpost/20121022#pg13 (http://digital.globalgolfpost.com/globalgolfpost/20121022#pg13)