Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Mark Saltzman on March 22, 2012, 09:11:26 AM

Title: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 22, 2012, 09:11:26 AM

Johns Island Club - West Course

Vero Beach, Florida

Quote from: Tom_Doak on November 30, 2005, 07:53:01 PM

Mr. Fazio told me in 1986 that he thought Johns Island West was one of his most underrated courses, and that I would agree with ... I liked it a lot. (7.)  

Exceptional early Fazio (that for some reason felt a lot like Dye) on some of the best terrain in Florida.  My favourite golf course in Florida.  Extremely underrated, never talked about, and very worthy of discussion.


(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/Flag.jpg)


Scorecard

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/ScreenShot2012-03-21atWednesdayMarch212012104147PM.png)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/ScreenShot2012-03-21atWednesdayMarch212012104200PM.png)


Routing

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/Routing.png)


Clubhouse

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-Clubhouseand18from13.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-ClubhouseFront2.jpg)


Entrance - You don't find this by accident.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/Entrance.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/Entrance2.jpg)

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Overview Posted
Post by: Scott Warren on March 22, 2012, 09:15:02 AM

Looks interesting from the aerial. Looking forward to the pics.

Great work as always providing such thorough tours -- I know how time-consuming they can be.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Overview Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 22, 2012, 10:03:00 AM

Hole 1: Par 4, 391 Yards

The first two holes are not the most exciting on the golf course, routed over the flattest terrain and with two of the most straightforward greens.  Still, right from the first tee you know you are in for something different than the 'typical modern Fazio design', - there is lots of width, very little shaping [at least that was obvious to me] and a noticeable absence of fairway bunkers.

From the back two sets of tees, the fairway lays at angle to the tee, requiring a more precise combination of both distance and line.  The fairway narrows, the longer the tee shot and many will choose to hit less than driver.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-1Tee.jpg)


From the forward three sets of tees, the hole plays straightaway:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170548.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170550.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170551.jpg)


The most notable feature on the approach is a large drop-off in the fairway short of the green.  The approach begs for a shot to be run onto the green (which is possible given the reasonably firm conditioning), but a small patch of rough 20 yards short of the green calls for increased precision.  Anything played too far left will find the drop-off and will leave a very difficult pitch from fairway cut over a deep bunker cut into the side of the green.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170552.jpg)


The terrain at the 1st slopes gradually right-to-left, as does the green.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170553.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170554.jpg)



Hole 2: Par 4, 351 Yards

A simple hole for those willing to lay-up away from the bunker on the right - lots of width 130 yards from the green.  Golfers choosing to hit driver off the tee must be precise as finding the menacing bunker right, or worse the hazard/trees on the left, can quickly turn this birdie hole into bogie or worse.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170555.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170556.jpg)


The bunker on the right is deceptive.  Some [or at least I] may think it protects the ideal line into the green, but this bunker is completely penal in nature and tee shots that challenge it are left with a difficult semi-blind approach.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170557.jpg)


The ideal line is up the left side of the fairway, leaving this ideal angle of approach into a very challenging and deceptive green.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170558.jpg)


The green is shaped almost with 3 wings.  The first wing is the only portion of the green visible from the fairway and it slopes back toward the tee.  The middle wing is the high point of the green and is a plateau (and I small one at that).  The final

portion of the green slopes to the right and toward the back of the green - very difficult to get to.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170559.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170560.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170561.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170562.jpg)

Hole 3: Par 4, 402 Yards

An extremely difficult hole and the most interesting of the trio of opening par-4s.  Something about this hole, especially the green site, shaping and bunkering screamed Dye to me - I don't know why - anyone else see this??


The fairway bunkering is deceptive as the bunkers left and right appear as though they are at the same distance, but they are staggered by some 30 yards.  The ideal line into the green is protected by the left bunkers, but the fairway slopes significantly to the left so anything challenging it too closely will kick into the left rough.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-3tee.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170565.jpg)


Short of the bunkers, the fairway cut extends farther left than is obvious from the tee.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170566.jpg)


An ideal drive still leaves a very and intimidating difficult approach.  The green is protected by a huge drop-off left and one of the deepest bunkers on the course.  The front of the green has a massive false-front that will send the ball 30 yards down the fairway if found.  The right is a combination of mounds and swales, but if one has to miss somewhere, right is probably it.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170567.jpg)


Short-left

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170568.jpg)


Short-right

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170569.jpg)


Green from right

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170570.jpg)


Green from behind - note 'Sunday pin position back-right'

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170571.jpg)


Green from front - note false-front.. awfully demanding given this is going to by a long-iron+ approach for most.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170572.jpg)

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: John_Conley on March 22, 2012, 10:18:34 AM

One of my all-time faves.  Can you post a photo of Ron's Island (if it is still there)?

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 22, 2012, 10:20:24 AM

Quote from: John_Conley on March 22, 2012, 10:18:34 AM

One of my all-time faves.  Can you post a photo of Ron's Island (if it is still there)?

John, Ron's Island?

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: John_Conley on March 22, 2012, 10:22:48 AM

Mark, when you turn at the thrift store to go north to the somewhat-hidden entrance.  There's a trailer park owned by someone with an obvious sense of humor. 

I love everything about JIW.  You're right...one of the best in Florida.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: Tim Gavrich on March 22, 2012, 10:32:43 AM

Way cool.  Based on its location, there are tons of people who live within a couple minles of the place who have ZERO idea it's there, which I'm sure is by design.  Same goes for Red Stick, which is literally a few hundred yards down the street.  Did you play Red Stick, Mark?

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: Anthony Gray on March 22, 2012, 10:37:19 AM

  Can't wait for that hole behind the clubhouse.

  Anthony

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: jim_lewis on March 22, 2012, 11:40:44 AM

Mark:

If you want to attract more interest in this photo tour, I suggest that you skip ahead to #17, which is one of the coolest go/no go par 5's I have seen.

Jim Lewis

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: Matthew Petersen on March 22, 2012, 11:43:10 AM

Quote from: jim_lewis on March 22, 2012, 11:40:44 AM

Mark:

If you want to attract more interest in this photo tour, I suggest that you skip ahead to #17, which is one of the coolest go/no go par 5's I have seen.

Jim Lewis

That hole looks awesome from the aerial. I also am interested to see 15.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 22, 2012, 06:06:57 PM

John, that is really funny, I'm sorry I missed it.

Tim, I tried to play Red Stick, but unfortunately I ran into access issues.  I have heard it is a very good course, but very private, sharing a lot of members with Orchid Island in Vero.

Anthony, it will be a long wait, that's the 18th (as seen from the 13th green).

Jim, agreed, 17 is awesome and that is a thrilling second shot if going for it.  Can't believe it is never discussed here.

Matthew, 15 is a really good short par-4.  There was some [not a lot] discussion in an earlier thread I started, called "par 4 of the day": http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50988.0.html

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: GBoring on March 22, 2012, 09:46:34 PM

Mark,

Johns island West holds a special place in my heart.  I served as the Asst. Super there for almost 4 years immediately after college.  I always thought the course never got the recognition it deserved but I believe that was the way the membership wanted it.  We held a local US Open qualifier one year and the scores were very high.  When those greens are firm and fast the place becomes very difficult.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: John_Conley on March 22, 2012, 09:54:12 PM

The view of the clubhouse atop the hill behind 18 is the finest finishing shot view I've seen.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 22, 2012, 11:36:55 PM

Hole 4: Par 4, 535 Yards

A very strong par-5, that is largely about the green site.  There is a lot of visual distraction on the 4th tee -- water well left, bunkering left, bunkering right, top-shot bunkering, a rolling fairway -- all of this distracts from what is a very easy, wide-open tee shot.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170575.jpg)


Tee shots up the right leave the more difficult second for those laying-up [and the preferred angle for those trying to reach the green in two].  If laying up, the golfer must choose to either play left, or try to carry a set of trees 100 yards short of the green.  Lots of room to miss right as long as the distance is there.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-42ndshot.jpg)


Laying up from the left is a much easier task.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170579.jpg)


The approach to green is very uphill, played over some extremely undulating terrain.  There is no running the ball onto this green and shots that are played too near the green will leave an awkward lie from the fairway cut.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170580.jpg)


Approaching from the left is intimidating, played over extremely deep bunkering.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170581.jpg)


A rather flat green, that is much larger than appears from the fairway

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170583.jpg)


From behind.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170585.jpg)


Bunkering left of the green.  Note size of flag to get a sense of scale/depth of bunker.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170587.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170588.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170589.jpg)




Hole 5: Par 3, 125 Yards

Not much to write about here.  Fairly dull, downhill par-3.  Happy to be corrected, but this was not my favourite hole on the course...

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170591.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170592.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170593.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170594.jpg)




Hole 6: Par 5, 525 Yards

The 2nd in a series of 4 very strong par-5s.  The fairway at the 6th is shaped like an hour-glass, widening and narrowing, requiring the golfer to choose the length of his shot carefully.

Tee shots between 220-270 yards in length will play to the wide point of the fairway and the tee shot is fairly simple.  The ideal line is up the left side of the fairway -- a difficult spot to get to given the contour of the land and the OB.  Longer hitters must either throttle back or be very precise.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170598.jpg)


A look at the way the fairway narrows and widens.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170599.jpg)


On the second shot, the golfer has the option of laying up to the trees, or playing left of them to a blind lower fairway.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-62ndshot.jpg)


Laying up to the trees leave an approach that is played from a level lie at equal elevation to the green, but one must be careful not to hit the trees with the approach.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170602.jpg)


The view of the lower fairway as the golfer crests the hill.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170603.jpg)


The approach from the lower fairway.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170604.jpg)


Significant fall-offs and deep bunkering guard both sides of the green.  A very nice look to these bunkers, benched into the side of the hill.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170605.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170606.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170608.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170609.jpg)

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 3 Posted
Post by: John_Cullum on March 23, 2012, 09:11:23 AM

Quote from: Mark Saltzman on March 22, 2012, 11:36:55 PM

Hole 5: Par 3, 125 Yards

Not much to write about here.  Fairly dull, downhill par-3.  Happy to be corrected, but this was not my favourite hole on the course...

But it's a redan hole.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 6 Posted
Post by: jim_lewis on March 26, 2012, 05:23:21 PM

Mark:

It looks like you may have lost enthusiasm for continueing this thread. I still wish you would at least post photos of #17, which is one of the coolest holes in Florida.

Jim Lewis

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 6 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 26, 2012, 05:49:34 PM

Sorry Jim. Been away. I'll continue tonight hopefully.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 6 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 26, 2012, 08:11:40 PM

Hole 7: Par 3, 193 Yards

Like the 1st par 3 (and the other two par-3s), the 7th plays downhill and is somewhat lacking in character.  If there is something holding JIW back from top-100 standing, it is the lack of interest in the par-3s.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170611.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170612.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170613.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-7behind.jpg)



Hole 8: Par 4, 336 Yards

I didn't get a great look at the 8th as the group in front of me invited me to play through, but it looks like a very interesting hole.  Lots of room left, but the unknown beckons to the right, tempting the golfer to cut the corner.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-8tee.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-8tee2.jpg)


The green, tucked into a punchbowl, is very interestingly shaped with two arms extending to the left.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170618.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170619.jpg)




Hole 9: Par 4, 439 Yards

The 9th is a very stout par-4, playing into the wind.  The fairway bunkers are out of reach for most, 250 yards from the members tee.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170621.jpg)


Many golfers will be approaching from a very long way out.  The green is open in front, allowing for shots to run onto the green.  Wild fairway undulation adds an element of luck to this approach.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170622.jpg)


Getting closer to the green, one can see that this is a 60-yard long biarritz green.  Though the centre swale is not as deep as on a traditional biarritz, it is clearly there and a very difficult feature given the length of the hole.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170623.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-9shortofgreen.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170625.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170626.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170628.jpg)

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Front 9 Posted
Post by: Carl Nichols on March 26, 2012, 10:37:09 PM

So Mark, you like this course better than CC of Florida? I've played neither, but from just the pictures (and recognizing all of the limitations inherent in such comparisons), they seem like they should be flipped.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Front 9 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 26, 2012, 10:45:07 PM

Carl, I believe the superior terrain at JIW is a big part of the reason I prefer it to CCF.

The back-nine is by far the better nine.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Front 9 Posted
Post by: Anthony_Nysse on March 27, 2012, 05:54:42 AM

JIW is a tremendous course that I think, struggles in its notority because of it's location. It's elevation is similar to Jupiter Hills and the routing has a great flow to it, wonderful use of scrub areas, no homes, good green complexes and yes, the back 9 is VERY good with some really cool, risk reward holes and fun par 5s. I don't think that a fair comparison between CCFL and JIW can be made as they are in 2 different leagues.

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Front 9 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 29, 2012, 10:54:41 AM

Hole 10: Par 4, 402 Yards

The following trio of par-4s is the best and most varied stretch of golf on the course.  Starting on the 10th, I was blown away by the interest of this hole.  A centreline bunker splits this 70 yard wide fairway.  Laying back short of the centreline is an option, leaving 160 yards into the green.  The entire fairway slopes toward the left side of the fairway, but from there the approach is more difficult.  The approach from the right gives the golfer a better view of the green as well as the better angle.

Tee View:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170437.jpg)


Short of Centreline:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170438.jpg)


Left of Centreline:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170439.jpg)


Right of centreline:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-10approachright.jpg)


Golfers that are able to carry the centreline bunker must deal with an extremely narrowed fairway, but if the golfer finds the fairway, a large downslope will leave only a pitch into the green.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-10approach.jpg)


This intimidating bunker/scrub area left of the fairway reminds me somewhat of the bunker left of Sand Hills #11.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170442.jpg)


Green Front-Right

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170444.jpg)


Green Front-Left

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170445.jpg)


Green Back-Left

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170446.jpg)


Green Behind

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170447.jpg)


Closer look at Fairway Movement

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170449.jpg)


10th as seen from 11 tee:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170453.jpg)



Hole 11: Par 4, 296 Yards

Very short par-4 that plays well under 300 yards on a straight line to the green.  The tee shot tempts the golfer to try to carry the massive waste bunker on the left, but for those unable to reach the green the ideal play is to the right, where the fairway is widest and from where the golfer has the best approach angle into the green.

Back Tee View:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-11tee.jpg)


Middle Tee View: Interestingly, while the angle from here to drive the green is easier, the lay-up tee shot is more difficult.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-11middletee.jpg)


A look back to the tee from the fairway:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170456.jpg)


Approach from left:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170457.jpg)


Approach from right:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170459.jpg)


A surprisingly flat green for a short par-4:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170460.jpg)


A deep bunker and fall-off over the green cannot be seen from the fairway.  Recovering from over the green to this back-to-front sloping green is nearly impossible.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170461.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170462.jpg)


A couple of looks from behind:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-11behind2.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-11behind.jpg)



Hole 12: Par 4, 406 Yards

The most difficult hole on the back-nine.  Another hole that tempts the golfer to challenge the inside of the dogleg, but for most the ideal play is down the left side of the fairway.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170467.jpg)


Approaching from the right leaves a shorter approach, but a difficult angle, especially to back pins.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-12approach.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170470.jpg)


A very difficult fortress-like green, sloping severely back-to-front with a large tier in the middle and guarded on three sides by deep bunkers/slopes.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170472.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170474.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-12behind.jpg)

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Front 9 Posted
Post by: Alex Miller on March 29, 2012, 11:19:50 AM

Quote from: Carl Nichols on March 26, 2012, 10:37:09 PM

So Mark, you like this course better than CC of Florida? I've played neither, but from just the pictures (and recognizing all of the limitations inherent in such comparisons), they seem like they should be flipped.

Ditto X 1000

Thanks for all your tours, Mark!

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 12 Posted
Post by: Mike Hendren on March 29, 2012, 12:19:24 PM

Mark, I'm really enjoying this tour and find the course highly interesting, including this unique cascading/waterfall bunker:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170619.jpg)

With all that sand to rake, I'm guessisng this is how Japanese rock gardeners envision heaven.

Mike

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 12 Posted
Post by: Randy Van Sickle on March 29, 2012, 04:36:39 PM

Mark - Thanks for the tour.  JIW is one of my all-time favorites.  I haven't been there in two years, but have played the course about 25 times over the last fifteen years.  My parents sold their house down there, but still maintain a memberhsip and I've felt it would be worth the trip down to Vero just to play JIW one more time.  Great elevation changes for Florida, a HUGE amount of trouble almost everywhere you look, a very difficult course, but still lots of fun to play.  Too bad you couldn't spend more time on the eighth hole.  That is one of my favorites, and a classic risk-reward short par 4.  Looking forward to the rest of the tour.  (I would also agree that the back nine is more interesting than the front and I could play 17 over and over and over again.)

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 12 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on March 31, 2012, 01:12:51 PM

Hole 13: Par 3, 163 Yards

On a golf course that thus far had not used water in any meaningful way, this hole felt out-of-place and 'predictably Florida'.  Nonetheless, the hole is pretty, has a very interesting green (both in shape and contour) and provides a lovely view for those sitting on the back porch of the clubhouse, which is just behind the 13th tee.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-13tee.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170476.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170478.jpg)




Hole 14: Par 5, 530 Yards

You know whenever you see a sign at the tee box like the one below that you're in for an interesting hole!  :D

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170482.jpg)


The back two sets of tees play from this angle, requiring a [short] carry over the water and a tee shot that must flirt with the bunkers on the right for the ideal angle for the second shot.  The remaining sets of tees play from an angle much farther to the left.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170480.jpg)


Tee shots near the bunkers on the right leave a much preferred angle of approach for a lay-up, though it is the longer way into the green.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170483.jpg)


Playing up the left leaves a shot that requires the golfer to play farther to the right or hit a draw around the trees to get into ideal position.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170484.jpg)


The approach is played to a green that is some 50 yards in width, but only about 20 yards deep and is separated by a huge spine down its centre. 

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170485.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170486.jpg)


Green from right

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170487.jpg)


Green from Left

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170489.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170490.jpg)



(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170491.jpg)


Green from back-right

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170492.jpg)


(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-14behind.jpg)





Hole 15: Par 4, 276 Yards

The 15th is short par-4, playing well under 300 yards.  An imposing waste area and very deep bunker guard the left.  A single tree guards the right side of the green.  Players who choose to lay-up need not worry about the tree as it is nearly green high.

Tee View:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/JohnsIslandWest-15tee-1.jpg)



Tee shots that are laid-up are left with an approach that is played uphill to a green surface that is completely blind from the fairway.  The bunker on the left looks scary from here as well!

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/P1170498.jpg)


Tee shots that are too far to the right must deal with this one very well-placed tree.  Run it up, hit it over, or through -- tough choice.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/P1170499.jpg)


A steep bank short of the green means shots must be flown onto the green.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/P1170500.jpg)


A fairway cut chipping area to the right of the green leaves a very difficult recovery.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/P1170501.jpg)


The deep greenside bunker:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/P1170505b.jpg)


The green has a massive tier separating the front and back portions.  The picture flattens the ridge, but it is several feet high.  I found out the hard way that landing a wedge into the slope will have it spin off the front of the green, down the bank and several yards into the fairway (a la Kyle Stanley minus the water).

Green from behind:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/JohnsIslandWest-15behind.jpg)


The green also expands at the back over the deep bunkering.  I am very glad I didn't have a back-left pin.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/P1170505.jpg)

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - Hole 15 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on April 01, 2012, 11:16:37 PM

Hole 16: Par 3, 212 Yards

Another simple, downhill par-3.  Though the lengths of the par-3 holes vary significantly, it is difficult to say they are not repetitive.  The 16th is open in front and right and is guarded by waste area long.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-16tee.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170509.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170511.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-16behind.jpg)




Hole 17: Par 5, 472 Yards

One of the most unique holes I have EVER seen!  The bunkering begs the golfer to cut the corner.  It is 230 yards over the longest bunker.  Golfers required to play left will leave a long second shot and a no choice but to lay-up.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-17tee.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170514.jpg)


The second shot is AWESOME!  Choose your route -- the direct line to the green up the right, or the roundabout route to the left, around the large dune/sand/tree formation in the centre.  The view from 250 yards out in the centre of the fairway:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170516.jpg)


After an ideal tee shot, the golfer is left with a view that looks like this from 220 yards out.  Though the hole plays straight uphill and the approach requires an all-carry shot, it is difficult not to take-on this shot through the chute.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-172ndshot.jpg)


Golfers laying-up can choose to lay-up to the right and then play the shot over the waste area.  The lay-up area slopes sharply to the right helping poorly struck shots to run forward and toward the opening.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-17layuparea.jpg)



An ideal tee shot up the right will leave this view, from 125 yards short of the green.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-17approachright.jpg)


Lay-ups played toward the dune island leave an impossible and blind approach:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170520.jpg)


A look at the landing area for golfers choosing to lay-up to the left:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170521.jpg)


And the view of the approach from this angle:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170522.jpg)


The green is similar in contour (though not as severe) and shape to Kingsley's 9th.  Low points in the back-left and front-right provide for pins that are ideally approached from different angles (just like the separate tees at Kingsley).

Green from Left:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170523.jpg)


Green from Right:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170525.jpg)


A look back to the left fairway:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170526.jpg)


And back to the right fairway:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170528.jpg)


A closer look at the dune island:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170529.jpg)


Oh, and a hidden back bunker will catch shots hit long:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170524.jpg)


One last look from behind:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-17behind.jpg)





Hole 18: Par 4, 381 Yards

Much more room right than appears from this tee view.  Longer hitters may choose to challenge/carry the bunkers up the left.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170531.jpg)


From the start of the fairway the width is more easily seen:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-18shortoffairway.jpg)


A rather intimidating approach to a green in a very pretty setting.  Only place to miss is short.  Right is (obviously) not good.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-18approach.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170538.jpg)


From just short of the green one gets a good look at the unique sand ridge running along the left side of the green.

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-18shortofgreen.jpg)


And a few looks from behind this severely angled green:

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/P1170545.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-18behind2.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-18from13.jpg)

(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Johns%20Island%20West/JohnsIslandWest-18behind3.jpg)

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on April 02, 2012, 11:43:25 AM

Bump. No discussion re #17??

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
Post by: Sean Leary on April 02, 2012, 01:28:03 PM

17 is super cool. Can't thnk of another hole like it.

What a great looking course..

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
Post by: Frank M on April 02, 2012, 01:52:36 PM

17 is very interesting. I agree with the other posters, from pictures, I much prefer CC of Florida

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
Post by: Mark Saltzman on April 02, 2012, 05:25:44 PM

Quote from: Frank Mastroianni on April 02, 2012, 01:52:36 PM

In all honesty, however, I don't know if it's just the pictures, but this course does not appeal to me.

This is a site devoted to frank [or is it Frank  ;D] discussion of golf course architecture.  I can understand the preference for CC of Florida.. it is an excellent golf course, one of the very best I've played in the state of Florida.

What about the pictures of the course makes it one that  does not appeal to you?

Title: Re: Johns Island Club - West (Tom Fazio) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
Post by: Frank M on April 02, 2012, 08:36:03 PM

The course seems inconsistent whether it's the bunkering, feel, or scale of the individual holes.