Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Jim McCann on November 30, 2011, 06:26:32 PM
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I see from the following article in today's "Daily Record" that work has already started with tackling
the thorny issue of the final hole on the Centenary PGA course that will host the Ryder Cup in three years:
GLENEAGLES bosses have sent the diggers in to rip up their problem 18th hole.
The development is to ensure the earth moves for golf fans expecting an exciting climax to the Ryder Cup in 2014.
New plans for the revamped closing hole were unveiled on the day that organisers confirmed the dates when Scotland will stage the sport's greatest show - September 26 to 28.
That's one week earlier than last year's Welsh washout at Celtic Manor that saw horrendous weather force the event to stretch into a fourth day's play.
However, the biggest focus of yesterday's announcement, led by First Minister Alex Salmond, was Jack Nicklaus' final adjustments to the PGA Centenary Course he first designed more than 20 years ago.
The diggers have already begun the enormous task of shifting 35,000 tonnes of soil to transform the 18th from a dreary uphill slog into an exciting 527-yard par 5 that will yield eagle opportunities.
The championship tee will be raised by two metres and moved slightly forward and to the left. The fairway will be levelled and the new sloping green slightly lowered to encourage big hitters to go for the green in two.
It's not the most radical of the visions that Nicklaus pitched to Gleneagles bosses after making a site visit this summer.
But managing director Patrick Elsmie believes the new look will ensure last-hole drama in 2014.
He said: "Our plan is that the new 18th will be in operation next May and, given the weather, it is moving on remarkably.
"It feels as though we have an army working out there at the moment. There are some skilled shapers doing fantastic work.
"Like all these things Jack initially came up with a proposal that was very exciting but we felt that was going to require more
work than was feasible.
"So Jack and his organisation came up with a solution, which is how do we take a piece of ground and make it something that is going to be exciting as well as being a wonderful way to finish? "What he has come up with is a solution that doesn't require a substantial change to the ground around the hole. It will cost several hundreds of thousands of pounds to do but the end solution is something that both we and Jack are excited about."
Other changes include the expansion of the pond lining the fairway of the signature ninth hole and the addition of new bunkers at the ninth, 12th and 15th.
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But will it be the equal of Valhalla?
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With the weather the way it is in Scotland at the moment (you guessed it, Heavy rain!) it is a tough time to be doing any major earthworks/shaping!
Good luck to them!
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The 18th clearly needed some work as it was an extremely boring hole before, but is there not some statistic saying that most matchplay matches finish around the 16th and not many actually reach 18th? Isn't this reason why the composite course at Royal Melbourne was slightly re-arranged this year to accommodate the hospitality tents around the 16th green rather than the 18th?
With this in mind I had hoped they would do something to the 16th on the PGA course as I believe it has the potential to be a really exciting matchplay par 5 if the water hazard short of the green was moved closer to the green or vice versa to bring it more into play. It is maybe a bit Rees Jones or Trent Jones rather than the style of holes that is generally preferred on here but I think could create some real excitement at a point on the course when lots of games are won or lost. Currently I can't see the water being in play for the pros unless they hit a really poor drive that finds one of the bunkers, in which case they would probably be laying up to the green regardless of the water.
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Is there a reason that they are using this course at Gleneagles rather than the others?
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££££££
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#16
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/3428Gleneagles-PGACentenary16.jpg)
#18
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/3300Gleneagles-PGACentenary18.jpg)
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££££££
Not sure if that was meant for my question but if it was, whey would money be the difference at one course versus the other? So they could charge more there?
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Sean,
the Kings and Queens too short for the big boys nowadays.
:'(
FBD.
PS Hilarious/Deeply saddening that JN is back 'coming up with a solution'/'taking a piece of ground' that JN 'created' in the first place and that no-one seems to see any irony in that - at all. What a business.
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Martin,
Got it. Seems silly for a match play event...
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The 18th clearly needed some work as it was an extremely boring hole before, but is there not some statistic saying that most matchplay matches finish around the 16th and not many actually reach 18th? Isn't this reason why the composite course at Royal Melbourne was slightly re-arranged this year to accommodate the hospitality tents around the 16th green rather than the 18th?
Tom
Since 1979, 38% of matches have played the 18th hole. The statistics show that 90% of matches play the 15th, 80% the 16th and 60% the 17th.
173 out of 445 matches have been settled on 18. The next highest is the 16th with 94.
So, it is true that a fairly small proportion of matches reach 18, but this is compensated for by the drama of those that do.
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Sean,
the Kings and Queens too short for the big boys nowadays.
:'(
FBD.
PS Hilarious/Deeply saddening that JN is back 'coming up with a solution'/'taking a piece of ground' that JN 'created' in the first place and that no-one seems to see any irony in that - at all. What a business.
Marty
I think its also fair to say that the owners want to showcase what they see as their no. 1 course but to get back to your comment on Kings and Queens being too short, do you think that would matter in matchplay ? When you're not worried about someone shooting 30 under for the tournament why not go with the flow. Arguably the Kings/Queens would be much more exciting due to being short with more risk reqard golf, no ?
I do take your point on JN's involvement on the 18th however (with my sensible hat on) never having played it, the green does look very much like its set up for a short iron approach from the right, in other words it is definitely a 3 shot hole. Its at least a couple of decades after it was originally built that the big boys are getting anywhere near it in two hence the likely need to change the green so you could argue it wasn't that bad a design. I think the big problem however is the routing which gives you a long uphiller to finish. Can't be fun to play at the end of a round never mind watch. Now whether the choice of routing was down to JN or whether he was constrained such that he had no choice, well thats another matter.
Niall
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So, now that we're seeing the pros challenge the new 18th, what's the verdict?
Still seems very weak to me. I guess they'll claim it's exciting now because it's so easy. Even in the bog that is the Centenary Course it'll be a drive and 8 iron for quite a few of the players so it'll be halved in birdie more often than not.
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Different ?
(https://p.twimg.com/A1PK9lXCYAA_qnW.jpg)
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Before this years Ryder Cup everyone was saying how long and tough the Medinah course is, Colsaarts shoots around 63 and there were plenty of 3-5 consecutive birdie runs. Medinah played 7400yds now put that into the context of a 6700 yard course and it becomes a >10 feet putting contest.
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Mark,
I know I am going against convention but I do not believe that length makes the course difficult for top players. It needs other challenges to do that.
Jon