Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Chris Johnston on August 26, 2011, 08:50:43 PM
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Having received several questions, here is the latest wrt the Doak designed course at Dismal River...
Don "Dirt" Mahaffey and crew end their second week in the Sandhills and the main line is moving along and well ahead of schedule. With a well and frost free line in the gound, part of the main is already charged. Toro irrigation heads began to arrive today and component shipments are now coming 1x-2x a day. Don is doing a great job with coordinating the fast track and complex logistics.
Brian Slawnik arrived Monday followed by Tom Doak and Eric Iverson on Wednesday. Brian and Eric have 7 greens underway with three of these almost ready for final touches followed by irrigation install. Tom has been spending a ton of time working on these and walking/tinkering within the routing. Things are beginning to look Doakable.
I'm sure Tom and Don will fill in more details when they have time, or a Guinness!
Meanwhile, we have a record weekend with members and guests on site!
If any of you are in the area, feel free to stop by!
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Chris
Thanks for the update and thanks for the invite. Unfortunately, I will not be in the area....but I do hope one day to be able to come out and play both courses.....perhaps with you. I enjoy your perspectives. Cheers
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Chris,
Thanks for the update, a foto would be nice every now and then, even if they never do justice, some of us have experienced enouigh eyes to add the missing justice factor in. Have fun!
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Chris,
Are you sharing your Guinness??
Which greens are you working on right now?
Can you get a pic of Don and Tom + Eric and Brian hoisting the trophy? Would be a good program cover for next year's tournament. Especially if we can get them to play in it!
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If any of you are in the area, feel free to stop by!
Thanks but I'll be fishing off the New Jersey coast this weekend.
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Eric...10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, but maybe a little less on 12. Pheeflippinnominal!
Hope photos coming from AB. I don't know how to post them.
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I just arrived at Dismal. The boys must be working hard as nary a one was at the bar and I stayed still she closed just to make sure.
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I may be a little behind, but is Don no longer at Wolf Point?
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I may be a little behind, but is Don no longer at Wolf Point?
It is a pretty sad situation, really, that nobody wants to talk about. You see, he was instructed to kill all of the gophers but due to the eardrum damage he suffered from having to listen to Joe Hancock's choice of music, he actually heard "golfers." Being the dutiful employee that he is, he followed through with the instructions as ordered.
Fortunately, Mr. Johnston is a believer in redemption and agreed to employ Sir Mahaffey while he works through what is likely to be a nasty court case.
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Chris,
I would be glad to post any pictures for you, just mail them to me at agolf@chilesat.net
Randy
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#9
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/9.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/9PM.jpg)
#17
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/17AM.jpg)
#17 Green
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/17AMA.jpg)
#18 Tee Box
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/18TB.jpg)
#18
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/18River.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/18Green.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/18Pano.jpg)
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WOW!!!!
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Aidan, Aidan, Aidan...
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Chris:
This looks incredible! I am really impressed by ownership and membership's commitment to the club. So long as the feds don't kill the economy any more than they currently are, I am sure it will result in a great future for the club.
I know TD does not like predictions on golf courses, but I just don't see anyway that Dismal River is not in the conversation of greatest 36 hole private clubs at the end of this project. Plus, it is fun to speculate on such issues, especially on these message boards with fellow students of gca. So here it is.
I have not played Dismal River yet, but have followed your story closely and read almost every post on the club. I have played the 36 at Oakland Hills and Firestone and certainly think that DR will surpass them. Other notables include Winged Foot, Baltusrol, Olympic, Congressional, Whisper Rock and soon Ballyneal. In terms of the total experience, I certainly think DR will be at the top of the conversation, especially for us on this board who love the purest parts of the game in a natural setting made for golf (rather than the toughest test of golf or the best of "high society").
Speaking for myself, my first national membership will be at Dismal River. Unfortunately, I have to get my 5 kids through college before that becomes a reality. But I truly love what you are doing there.
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Oooppss, forgot one...... another view of #18.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/18-1.jpg)
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Aidan...
Will these photos be available for purchase or are they only for internal use by the club?
Furthermore, are there photos of the Nicklaus course being taken (and available for purchase)?
And will there be photos available of the Doak course when complete?
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Mac,
I appreciate your kind words and interest. I will post Dismal course images in a few days. Assuming Chris has me back to shoot the second course I will be happy to make them available for purchase through my website or I am sure you can get them from the pro shop.
Aidan.
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For those viewing the photos for the first time... In person, the landforms are even more dramatic than what you see represented in the great pictures. It's amazingly beautiful land.
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I may be a little behind, but is Don no longer at Wolf Point?
It is a pretty sad situation, really, that nobody wants to talk about. You see, he was instructed to kill all of the gophers but due to the eardrum damage he suffered from having to listen to Joe Hancock's choice of music, he actually heard "golfers." Being the dutiful employee that he is, he followed through with the instructions as ordered.
Fortunately, Mr. Johnston is a believer in redemption and agreed to employ Sir Mahaffey while he works through what is likely to be a nasty court case.
Know any good lawyers?
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Mike Whitaker is a fantastic lawyer, and well respected. I am only one of those two, I'll let you decide which.
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Looks remarkable. Good call to cross the road!
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Mike Whitaker is a fantastic lawyer, and well respected. I am only one of those two, I'll let you decide which.
You forgot c) None of the above
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Aidan
Outstanding!
Simply, Outstanding!
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If any of you are in the area, feel free to stop by!
Thanks but I'll be fishing off the New Jersey coast this weekend.
The water must be a little choppy huh? ;)
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Thank you Chris. Are you on your second Guinness? :)
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Just had a few with Tom, Brian, Eric and John K.
Great work today, Gents!
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#9
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/9.jpg)
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I know Tom likes to route fairways in valleys and use punch bowl greens, but that's ridiculous! riDQlous?
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That is some impressive-looking ground! I regret I can't make it out for the inaugural work and shirk weekend this September, but hope to make it out to the next effort, if one is offered, perhaps in the Spring? It says a lot for Chris, the ownership and team, plus the membership, that they have refined Jack's track to provide a better course AND then also committed to another course with Tom and his talented gang creating a second, though different, helping of prairie golf.
There is an opportunity to have something quite special there from all that has been said and I'm heartened to see that American golf has at least a few of these projects being undertaken.
Cheers.
Kris 8)
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#9
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/9.jpg)
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I know Tom likes to route fairways in valleys and use punch bowl greens, but that's ridiculous! riDQlous?
Garland - #9 is a dog right par 4 but the courageous may have a go, dependent upon wind at the time. Miss right and you meet the ravine. A classic "how much do you want" hole with an eternity green. It will be fun.
The drive is towards "Big Horseshoe", the backdrop left of the flag, and the approach is to "Little Horseshoe" shadowed to the right of the flag. Both are prominent backdrops for several holes and are >300ft in height.
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#9
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/9.jpg)
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I know Tom likes to route fairways in valleys and use punch bowl greens, but that's ridiculous! riDQlous?
Garland - #9 is a dog right par 4 but the courageous may have a go, dependent upon wind at the time. Miss right and you meet the ravine. A classic "how much do you want" hole with an eternity green. It will be fun.
The drive is towards "Big Horseshoe", the backdrop left of the flag, and the approach is to "Little Horseshoe" shadowed to the right of the flag. Both are prominent backdrops for several holes and are >300ft in height.
Thanks for the response Chris, but it was a joke presuming Tom had routed the fairway down the ravine to the big punch bowl in the distance.
;)
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I am breaking my self-imposed hiatus to post these pictures from my visit last month. I feel guilty about not posting these when Chris and his crew were such generous hosts.
Chris or others, please let me know if I mis-labeled a hole. My memory was kind a fuzzy...
Hole #1
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pvMSWBQS4zgNR4LoF3OjFY7P7oWPBX5Jsxk3ZOnIzsFkce0fcL3MHuqufbF1A5RvetJjfy4hZFew/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2001%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
Hole #2
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p9qGJFC7WXzhRpaT0jKC5hnMYev2-pjJepx3kXYCmqrzdYUct3Is3ErtIjecYEq-h2boB8bJqo3Y/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2002%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
Hole #3
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pSzUtRoGszmt1CSI5zmf5DDyKEKwlbnH3xqbwPxk2e0tGYIDtbT6RuPG4ztVE6-8xVbwDI_rBF60/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2003%20-%20b%20-%20Green.JPG)
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Hole #4
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pB_iM5h9wtx1XLCtVY2ovAjWMIQD9FJoiXW66Pyu95l37l5oi-FukACUWZQHtYrmhfd_7TxNEqm0/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2004%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
Hole #5
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pxS6E5SD1Sa3nnhLuEV2Urdu_7EhLyP_E5HJV8e_8rEmwIlKkYCKEg6ZNrQHcQOG6IziEVbtMKI4/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2005%20-%20a%20-%20Green.JPG)
Hole #6
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pdn_2K4L34g3Hyfg62YvbwPa4b0yriIJOY_uzMp3ix_sGzV-umzp_y-iSHd82Fl2LJzK2r5lwTU4/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2006%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
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Hole #7
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pZj4Y-ZTTLcdS2zsSDbYivIHyIlgTWWQodmNCAOfyqALqQOu1Lt7dx9mOA_Ux0wyLonWbV6CpxLI/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2007%20-%20b%20-%20Fairway%20to%20Green.JPG)
Hole #8
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pFe3ENgOJxlkhl0YtSRbrIR2dhpT4L_HSWCSUT4YlXndh_VpmtuZePjP73Q3ZhXIN9Bi72IREOgM/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2008%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1psqFVcQVJgI4VYsP8ZVfEdydSdlpVodeq3r30CLkr8uuEDuHm4Je7tjJfjzOxJdUC3iTM43Xq_uA/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2008%20-%20b%20-%20Fairway%20to%20Green.JPG)
Hole#9
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1paipMyz2xNvl6aBFub7kxDHVTNsovaJn2QYYU2m7VqTQzgp5Yb-aEh83jFaacLcCvn_gNCdgG4l4/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2009%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p-ONF-u74Tpm74GeZpHMNZN-CtHVZxVkE0w06lG34mDCOS7Nd5hJjgRFnc8dexdY8tv1e3YVwpEw/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2009%20-%20b%20-%20Fairway%20to%20Green.JPG)
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Hole #10
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pmkf-ZFo82G3TVt-BfDuiL2fIRc4MYPc67rYZaYTFzWmrURTNH-Jz1TiD60b030VG0-TTtmzswz8/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2010%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
Hole #11
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pRDdNwzeUUPRV32JIF0Cfze_uRiEjLNp_7FsREs-U4tBMUZDB6ArR8MIOC_7xFMZhEP_TcI0zzGc/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2011%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pRDdNwzeUUPSIT-4z3sIJGH9EX9muwATJLaCSK0EVZwbt36kCIlnfPf08JEnW2mRN2U0KXTRopAc/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2011%20-%20c%20-%20Green.JPG)
Hole #12
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p-P2dYa2e3QLCUZ9I7P5zy8dzui9DBO357SM1Wk7Bi6koOAkwomOBKD__bzQL7EOJL90Qf-0cGz8/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2012%20-%20a%20-%20Fairway%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p817Ily9ncFEq9joh9VRuVMiZrUqBvfCPgbBewOxHb93NHSf73UAEhs1503aqllVmB4pCVjIH0G4/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2012%20-%20b%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p817Ily9ncFGlV83MaGbaPfyItTx-VOHwSg4jHWjL01qiCQ7whoVEVXp1QBVcRxBo1VA2aqGCoYY/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2012%20-%20c%20-%20Fairway%20to%20Green.JPG)
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Hole #13
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1ppCemKzH9sYGfuPRy9SNakjKO5K2f34I3VJe-v-WfF4F2VzHtug9WCOYOdp-ZQc88c4fgUilRHvU/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2013%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pTlbhp4y7iKeOmc-hVAwVopjjw4jxhx58wtS8cHuG0YhzQ609U21uWT4ZlmWzGZY6pJSkJ4S_8bA/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2013%20-%20b%20-%20Fairway%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pfZvrbYdA0hzy1usrjw4H5Czlh_6xUkUWY6bX_o79IUPqyh52Juolkt4xzPDx-5bzZtzTkMJ-U0Q/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2013%20-%20c%20-%20Green.JPG)
Hole #14
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1punlViefw54Y0mgiJQYqiz9zhcbi_pvCADFTIfMKJCw64qoJWFOSYo-Hk9BMLnRGvCXOC0rT5Yxg/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2014%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
Hole #15
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p8O935LYxasrw0dnkY79HnNU5JhLZlvogZ2LvDtb93X3JPMc7LcJeJdLT1uIfBJq-SCuzPruiJk0/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2015%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1ppisU_8KNqpu-RS8Fv02Bf6AuKB2c02KA545QIG9SIB130frWZD_78szLlmA5KdMwSOlNG5Vg6a8/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2015%20-%20c%20-%20Green.JPG)
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Hole #16
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1prLleZ6g-IqDtL0r_5hqXlNeV0nDnFid7Vgz5fkOcMjn3ZdPHN4UEz6c30IohJtPqNOgTHvwwSbk/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2016%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pmYBiKlYJM5q-SX00h7LB6-7OXvNCcBB3ZCMI35ym1LaiketHFIIC4h749sZWaND3jqYR3tBr930/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2016%20-%20c%20-%20Green.JPG)
Hole #17
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pmYBiKlYJM5rFEoSEJJqzDrUg3jb3oQfe3gxMDdOUwHwEZpzy1_pRJdsOyD9WS6BESjYUdFc1L04/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2017%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pAph8qgKaFyBYqwK8vmKUpAJYNoICQbMOpadlUWDNNnZ4pBhWYaja95YYR56EwgjAx2kCum7DalY/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2017%20-%20b%20-%20Fairway.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1py7V1dsXcNPb-vZPL-LU5lo1gZJR-NnVwf_ciKmMEHg1qJds3PtaorRmWwqLBVbfV7FcRwyLQ0x0/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2017%20-%20c%20-%20%20Green.JPG)
Hole #18
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pZj6d98wquyMJFPomiioTFow0zwEjEPTVpaW61MVCrzd-6ARMr51OUsJ8jaHMy5rD5DTPGJjOKWo/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2018%20-%20a%20-%20Tee%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p-KN8ONA2lEQs8B51BsHR-babzKXM1elbgx_lJLnd0Z0uGJaZOxI203L2exJ14feTcg1__T8GWsw/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2018%20-%20b%20-%20Fairway.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pneUxiOMZ0SKvF80b21xUFzrVbsMJGHFrX4uPe-jAKJIfB4Ft5CTArY7N2JRaXBdABVhe4jyzz1s/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2018%20-%20b%20-%20Fairway%20to%20Green.JPG)
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pneUxiOMZ0SIcPOIHpzUNRKCJQQ3v-4UrokgeXEeVRh014DnWIIyV2_vswzH8UGV1nb3EO_UxUME/Dismal%20River%20-%20Doak%20-%20Hole%2018%20-%20c%20-%20Green.JPG)
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Okay, that's enough photos for now. Apart from Aidan's picture of #9, I don't think you can take anything right now that really does justice to what's out here. It is amazing to me how [even with the fairways mowed out a bit] it is so much easier to focus the eye on site than it is in a photograph ... looking at the photos, you struggle to get the scale of everything sorted out, and you really can't tell what you are looking at.
It is miles better in person.
I won't be around for Chris' weekend in September ... I'll be somewhere overseas ... but by then we should have six greens shaped and irrigated and [hopefully] seeded. Five of the greens are already good to go: nos. 10, 11, 13, 15 and 16. We'll get #14 in the next 2-3 days and I think that's all for this fall. We want to make sure that anything we build is going to germinate and get good cover this fall. We may come back in October and do a bit of bunkering and a bit of earthmoving, or we may just wait until spring to fire it up again.
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If any of you are in the area, feel free to stop by!
Thanks but I'll be fishing off the New Jersey coast this weekend.
The water must be a little choppy huh? ;)
Tim: thanks for getting it!
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Update -
6 greens are now shaped and two greens are irrigated. Hydro seeding set to begin next week.
A good bit of the main line is in and charged.
On the downside, we are running short of Guinness...calling Adam Clayman!
Joel - catch anything? House?
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Chris - how are the "cattle-built / salt lick induced" bunkers coming along? I thought this was a VERY cool idea when I saw it in progress back in July.
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Dan:
The cattle have scuffed a few areas bare ... but then they moved the cattle off the back nine so we could work. We'll see if the wind does anything interesting with them this winter. We did build a few others without bovine help.
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Just looking at the pictures get the juices flowing. I enjoyed the photos and it makes me long for home. More magic comes to the mystical sand hills. I look forward to a vist one day.
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Chris. Sorry, I didn't see your post until now. Me 'n Pablo have been busy working on alignment. Sims is bringing the booty. Tom Doak, it will be interesting to see the wind's effect. With the hill to the NW I wonder if you'll get much erosion on the lower holes. Did you orient the bunkers a specific direction specifically for the wind?
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Are the cattle staying ala Irish Straits and the sheep?
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Michael. I can't speak for Chris, but, that would be a bad idea. Have you ever seen a cow pie? They're huge. Plus, the damage their hoofs can do to a green is not pretty. Once at West Winds, one cow got away from a staging area nearby. The marks left behind were interesting. My guess was that the cow got spooked when the wind grabbed the flag and made a loud noise. The best we could figure, the cow was startled and leaped sideways a few feet. I sure wish I'd seen that.
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Michael - The cows will be (visible) on the property but not on either course, per se. I'd love to let them run loose but Adam is correct, the "fallout" would be a bit messy. The want to scratch their backs and flies love them.
For those who wish a cattle fix, try the back road into Dismal River. Its a 1-lane County Road, 7 miles of which is sand, with cattle free ranging. Just be sure you are in a truck or SUV.
We are thinking of having an event next year..."The Snip and Chip". Branding (and snipping) in the morning, followed by golf that afternoon and the next morning. If a GCA event, wonder if turnout would be good?
Adam - Pablo is getting alot of face time these days - he may want to engage an agent!
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Will Dismal now be considered the Sebonack of the midwest? Mix and match holes from each course and voila, Sebonack of the Sandhills...
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Will Dismal now be considered the Sebonack of the midwest? Mix and match holes from each course and voila, Sebonack of the Sandhills...
That would be hard to do, since the courses are more than a half mile apart at their nearest point.
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I was very pleasantly surprised to learn that you get a quick peek of the Nicklaus course while playing the Doak.
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Say it with me...Seeding Tomorrow!
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Chris.
Very fun...
We are thinking of having an event next year..."The Snip and Chip". Branding (and snipping) in the morning, followed by golf that afternoon and the next morning. If a GCA event, wonder if turnout would be good?
Some years ago, my daughter did an exchange in middle school - city kids to the country and country kids to the city. She got to learn what a "Cheerio Gun" was in Burns, OR.
I'm hoping to get out to Dismal River in late July next year. Scott Weersing and I are in the early stages of planning a big road trip.
Cheers, Jeff
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TDiddy...that's where the cattle come in...ride them from hole to hole, bringing JWN and TXD (your middle name is Xavier, right?) together again.
I'm hoping to get out this way, if only to shake hands with the great Eric Smith...
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Say it with me...Seeding Tomorrow!
Great news!
How's the weather there today?
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Say it with me...Seeding Tomorrow!
Great news!
How's the weather there today?
BedBoss - its sunny, high around 80. May be a bit windy for seeding. We'll see.
ps: BedBoss beds are the best! ;D
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I'm hoping to get out this way, if only to shake hands with the great Eric Smith...
Thanks, Mo. Looking forward to seeing you as well when you decide to make the pilgrimage. I hope you and Kevin make it out for The 5th. I'll let you know the dates after Chris and I put our heads together.
BedBoss - its sunny, high around 80. May be a bit windy for seeding. We'll see.
ps: BedBoss beds are the best! ;D
Chris - It might be Christmas before the wind dies down out there! Good luck!
As to the BB - Can you come to my grand opening? ;D I'd love to put you in front of the mic with the radio gals as I really do appreciate your enthusiasm my friend!
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Hey - who hydro-mulched the white truck?
Wind died down, two greens seeded.
Hope Dirt has some pics.
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CJ,
I'm sure you'll have a ton of before and after pictures, and I hope you'll share them. It's fascinating to me to look at the finished product compared to what the architect saw before breaking ground.
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(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0292.jpg)
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Don, #16?
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I can't judge by the photo but that green looks very close to the hill. Isn't that a little risky with water runoff?
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The Dismal River is between the green and the hill.
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I didn't realize the Biden Boehner story was posted elsewhere.
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Darn - I was hoping #16 could use Horseshoe (that HUGE sandhill) as the world's biggest backdrop! :)
That area down by the river is really beautiful. By the way, is Sand Hills downstream of that spot? How far would it be as the crow flies?
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Darn - I was hoping #16 could use Horseshoe (that HUGE sandhill) as the world's biggest backdrop! :)
That area down by the river is really beautiful. By the way, is Sand Hills downstream of that spot? How far would it be as the crow flies?
Dan - #17 green is at "Little Horseshoe". #18 green is at "Big Horseshoe".
#16 (Dirt's pic) is at the base of the centuries old buffalo crossing.
Sand Hills is 8ish miles downriver.
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Darn - I was hoping #16 could use Horseshoe (that HUGE sandhill) as the world's biggest backdrop! :)
That area down by the river is really beautiful. By the way, is Sand Hills downstream of that spot? How far would it be as the crow flies?
Dan - #17 green is at "Little Horseshoe". #18 green is at "Big Horseshoe".
#16 (Dirt's pic) is at the base of the centuries old buffalo crossing.
Sand Hills is 8ish miles downriver.
Kayak?
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Darn - I was hoping #16 could use Horseshoe (that HUGE sandhill) as the world's biggest backdrop! :)
That area down by the river is really beautiful. By the way, is Sand Hills downstream of that spot? How far would it be as the crow flies?
Dan - #17 green is at "Little Horseshoe". #18 green is at "Big Horseshoe".
#16 (Dirt's pic) is at the base of the centuries old buffalo crossing.
Sand Hills is 8ish miles downriver.
Kayak?
Tube. You could probably walk most of the way its so shallow.
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What was seeded around the greens? Is it throughout or are bunekrs faces different for example. Bent on the greens correct? Is it an A1&A4 mixture?Congrats for finially posting a construction photo, something we do not see enough of on this site IMHO. Looks great for so early on, things always seem to get better as the project evolves but damm thats a strong setting and fits perfectly. Congrats to all the team!
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Darn - I was hoping #16 could use Horseshoe (that HUGE sandhill) as the world's biggest backdrop! :)
That area down by the river is really beautiful. By the way, is Sand Hills downstream of that spot? How far would it be as the crow flies?
Dan - #17 green is at "Little Horseshoe". #18 green is at "Big Horseshoe".
#16 (Dirt's pic) is at the base of the centuries old buffalo crossing.
Sand Hills is 8ish miles downriver.
Kayak?
Tube. You could probably walk most of the way its so shallow.
Does it flow in that direction? If so, I see the workings of 12-packs and a lazy river :)
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Darn - I was hoping #16 could use Horseshoe (that HUGE sandhill) as the world's biggest backdrop! :)
That area down by the river is really beautiful. By the way, is Sand Hills downstream of that spot? How far would it be as the crow flies?
Dan - #17 green is at "Little Horseshoe". #18 green is at "Big Horseshoe".
#16 (Dirt's pic) is at the base of the centuries old buffalo crossing.
Sand Hills is 8ish miles downriver.
Kayak?
Tube. You could probably walk most of the way its so shallow.
Does it flow in that direction? If so, I see the workings of 12-packs and a lazy river :)
Best idea I've heard yet....
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What was seeded around the greens? Is it throughout or are bunekrs faces different for example. Bent on the greens correct? Is it an A1&A4 mixture?Congrats for finially posting a construction photo, something we do not see enough of on this site IMHO. Looks great for so early on, things always seem to get better as the project evolves but damm thats a strong setting and fits perfectly. Congrats to all the team!
Randy:
We chose not to go with A-1 / A-4 as we thought the maintenance was a bit too intense for out there; we only want the greens at 10, not 12. So we went with the newest Dominant blend of bentgrasses instead.
The roughs and fairways are all the same blend of fine fescues, except that we have a slightly different mix [which includes sheep fescue] for areas where we intend to let the grass get tall and wispy.
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TD,
I would love to hear a design explanation for the thought process on the green shown above. I say that because it reminds me very much of the greens at Kemper Lakes - three dramatic lobes, bunkers pinching the inside corner of each, strong tier to back right area, obviously built, and with no real relation to the strong hills behind. Granted, there is more detail to the bunkers and green contours, but........I always figured you were more in line with the Pete Dye oval green shapes.
It would seem to be sort of an experimental green for you, but as always, I could be wrong. I guess there are some wild shaped greens at BN, from photos I have seen.
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Jeff,
TD can certainly explain his design ideas if he wishes, but as a clarification, the photo is not taken from the direct line of play. In person it certainly does not feel as if there are three "dramatic lobes". More of a long green front to back with a left pin placement. As far as relation to the back hills, photos do not do this course (at least my photos) justice because everything is so large and expansive. Not sure what your gleaning from an amateur's photo, but I'm starting to understand why we see so few construction photos here.
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(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0292.jpg)
Jeff:
Damn! I was hoping to rip off Kemper Lakes, thinking that no one would notice. :)
Actually, when we started the project a couple of weeks ago, I was thinking we'd leave this green until the spring because I wasn't 100% sure what to do with it. But I spent 3-4 days thinking about it while working on the other greens, and decided we could go to work.
It was a tough green site to work with. Where the bunkers on the right are, there was a deep swale headed down to the river, so my first inclination was to put all of the green back behind it ... but I wanted to save room to use the area behind the green as a back tee for #17, where the length is needed on the carry for the tee shot for good players. So, the puzzle was to figure out how to get the green forward of the swale, with quite a bit of elevation change to take up, and quite a bit of left-to-right tilt in the front half of the green.
As Don says, the angle of play is from further to the right. You can just see the front of the forward tee in the right of this picture; the two back tees are even further to the right, so that the back right hole location is fronted by the right-hand bunkers. That made it a long, narrow green with barely any width in the middle section for a hole location ... so we extended to the left, behind the fronting bunker, for a third hole location option. The back-left bunker which helps create the shape of the green was the last piece added ... I just thought we'd given too much bail-out room to the left for a 160-yard par-3 ... but now you are really in trouble if you bail left, since everything on the green is going away from you, and you'll probably be either in a bunker or having to go over one. I think it's going to be a very tough little hole, especially on days with the wind from the left.
Don ... feel free to post another couple of photos if you have good ones. I got a great photo from the top of #13 fairway on my phone, but I don't think it will blow up well.
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Tom,
Unfortunately, I do not have many good pictures as I never seemed to have my camera when the light was right. The photo of 16 was taken just as the sun eased behind the hill last Friday evening. I wanted some shots but started too late in the day as we were trying to get 16 seeding finished up.
I did get a chance to take a few shots of the people involved. To the causal observer, it may seem normal that you announced the work in July and we're done seeding 6 green complexes in early September. To those involved, we know what a whirlwind its been and its a credit to all involved that it has gone so smooth and moved at such a rapid pace. Its always cool when a team comes together and works toward a common goal.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0280.jpg)
These three guys, Brent, Zack, and Jeff, hand raked every square inch of the 10 acres we seeded. In fact they hand raked it multiply times! The finishing was especially challenging in some spots because we were basically just seeding into native ground. Yet that ground had to be smooth enough to be closely mowed. In most cases the only way to get that finish was with a landscape rake and a strong back, for hours at a time. These young guys got it done.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0277.jpg)
Robert, Ben (this is how a USAF Capt. spends a week of leave), and Lupe averaged 14 hydro seed loads a day and worked into the night the first three nights as we made sure to tack down anything that might wash onto a green. There where pop up storms in the area and the crew was going to do all they could to protect the finish work.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0275.jpg)
From the beginning we knew we'd be racing a rapidly closing seeding window. The irrigation install guys were tasked with getting main line run to the green sites and then wrapping them as quickly as possible once the shaping was done. They did well, as they should, as this crew has been together for close to ten years now. Their foreman, Lupe, in the center, has been installing irrigation for close to 20 years. The latest addition to his crew is his son, Ferrmin, is too Lupe's right. To Lupe's left is his nephew, Carlos, who has made every fuse. We've had two suppliers come out to inspect the fusing and both left with "that guy is good" comments.
I wish I had a photo of Brian Slawnick in action. Brian obviously does outstanding work, but is also an excellent leader who keeps things moving without any drama. Brian keeps the vibe on the job just right and that's not always an easy thing to do.
Nor do I have any photos at this time of staff from Dismal River Club, but safe to say no way we get this much done this quickly without excellent support from Chris and his people. I will get some crew photos of the K State mafia when I'm there next week.
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Echoing Dons comments, this is an outstanding crew - the guys are first rate with their work and as people. Tom and Don have surrounded themselves with quality, and it shows in both work and attitude.
Don - its pretty cool you posted these pics.
Thanks for the GREAT JOB guys!
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Chris,
Do you find that Brent kid's hat to be as offensive as I do? And here I thought Dismal River had standards.
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Chris,
Do you find that Brent kid's hat to be as offensive as I do? And here I thought Dismal River had standards.
JC:
It's actually Brett, Brett Hochstein, and he was probably trying to lay low with the U of M hat because he's from Michigan. But he really graduated from Cornell ... and also from the Elmwood College turf program near St. Andrews.
Don:
Great idea of posting the crew pics. I haven't heard a peep from Ben yet on what he thought of the place, though ... he must be trying to figure out how to tell me it sucks!
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Please don't stop posting construction pics. They are interesting and should prove to be invaluable to people like me interested in seeing this thing come to life.
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Just saw these recent posts as I go back from Mullen on a beer run. We had run out of suds and needed a few to toast the completion of all our seeding--both greens and fairway surrounds/tees for 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 and 16.
I have had the time of my life and a decidedly positive experience for what I really hope will be my next career choice after my flying days are over. This was my "Top Gun" moment. Watching that movie in 1986 as a starry eyed four-year old, I became obsessed with being a pilot. Now, as a "crusty" old guy--at least on this young crew--I have a new idea of what I'd like to be.
I came out here with an idea of smoke and mirrors to the Renaissance recipe. I wanted to see what the fuss was all about by what must be considered one of the best design firms. I didn't find it. What I did learn and discover was that it takes patience and care to build a golf course. It takes a commitment to getting it right, attention to detail in the extreme, and a motivation to make it better everyday. It takes an effort to look for the absolute best golf holes you can find with the naked eye, then put in long hours and hard work to make them even better.
Brett, Jeff and Zach have been very fun to work with. They have asked my opinion on more than one thing that they probably shouldn't have, and in doing so, made me feel like a part of their team. I hope the little ideas we batted around will get in the ground, that would be a thrill. Don and "our crew" have been just like we always have been down at Wolf Point. I'm glad that his ideas and work ethic will get to be seen by a larger crowd now. Watching him and Brian figure things out has been a lesson in "joint warfare." Brian is a consummate professional with a fun streak that keeps the balance of the whole crew on the even. Watching him dig a new bunker on 13 and tie in a lonely pimple on 11 is worth the price of admission.
In the end, people will say what they're going to say about the golf course. Being here for a week, I have gotten a small taste of how hard it is to discover and create great golf. Looking at what's here now, I'm very excited to see it when I return for more work next spring. Anyone that says that Tom doesn't have great finishing stretches, or build hard enough par 3's, are in for a rude awakening. I have no idea how well received the course will be, but the work has been top notch, and everyone involved cares a great deal about it being the best it can be.
I would write more, but I'm off to be one of the first ten or so folks to play the front 9 of the new Doak course at Dismal River.
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Ben,
Kudos to you. I don't think anyone on this site has worked harder to take their passion and interest in golf course architecture to the next level like you have. Well earned.
Tom,
Being from Michigan is no excuse. :)
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Ben arrived Tues evening and was soon raking out tire tracks while wearing his flip flops. He apparently thought he was just coming down to say hello and wasn't anticipating being put to work right away.
The next night a H-O-R-S-E game broke out and we almost lost one of America's finest. As you would expect, the oldest guy in the game, me, excelled while fresh as I easily won the first game. I matched everything thrown at me, especially Robert "west tex" Young's 3 point bombs. I wore him down with granny shots from the free throw line and put the icing on the cake with a granny, nothing but net, from 3 point land.
I quickly faded as the games wore on but the next oldest guy, Mr. Slawnick picked up the pace winning game #2. It was then that Ben, decided to try the bounce off the free throw line, up off the backboard, catch in mid air lay up. He was doing great three quarters thru, but either the Keystone, or his enthusiasm, kicked in and his adrenaline out paced his athletic skill as he lost his balance and narrowly missed cracking his skull on the pole supporting the basket. I immediately wondered how Ben's commander would explain the accident to Ben's kin. Luckily he just missed his noggin but his shoulder did rattle the hoop. He did eventually hit that shot, but it was done at such a slow pace it was easily matched.
Slawnick held serve thru the 3rd game where it looked as if he was in control leading Brett (sorry about your name in my post above) H to H-O-R-S. I felt as if Brian was in complete control and made a 5 - 1 wager with west tex that Brian would win. Brett overheard and went into his Vinny "the microwave" Johnson mood and simply toyed with Brian hitting shot after shot until he put him away. For the next week I repeatedly heard Brian say to Brett, 5 -1 you can't get that done by lunch.....
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Wow, that is an awesome story Don, hearing stories like that of you guys having fun is just priceless. I can imagine being on site working into the wee hours is probably just a blast.
Kudos to Ben, I hosted him at Stone Eagle and had a great time, I knew he would be getting his hands dirty sooner than later in the dirt.
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Ben arrived Tues evening and was soon raking out tire tracks while wearing his flip flops. He apparently thought he was just coming down to say hello and wasn't anticipating being put to work right away.
The next night a H-O-R-S-E game broke out and we almost lost one of America's finest. As you would expect, the oldest guy in the game, me, excelled while fresh as I easily won the first game. I matched everything thrown at me, especially Robert "west tex" Young's 3 point bombs. I wore him down with granny shots from the free throw line and put the icing on the cake with a granny, nothing but net, from 3 point land.
I quickly faded as the games wore on but the next oldest guy, Mr. Slawnick picked up the pace winning game #2. It was then that Ben, decided to try the bounce off the free throw line, up off the backboard, catch in mid air lay up. He was doing great three quarters thru, but either the Keystone, or his enthusiasm, kicked in and his adrenaline out paced his athletic skill as he lost his balance and narrowly missed cracking his skull on the pole supporting the basket. I immediately wondered how Ben's commander would explain the accident to Ben's kin. Luckily he just missed his noggin but his shoulder did rattle the hoop. He did eventually hit that shot, but it was done at such a slow pace it was easily matched.
Slawnick held serve thru the 3rd game where it looked as if he was in control leading Brett (sorry about your name in my post above) H to H-O-R-S. I felt as if Brian was in complete control and made a 5 - 1 wager with west tex that Brian would win. Brett overheard and went into his Vinny "the microwave" Johnson mood and simply toyed with Brian hitting shot after shot until he put him away. For the next week I repeatedly heard Brian say to Brett, 5 -1 you can't get that done by lunch.....
Don:
This is the sort of fun I miss out on nowadays, because I have to get on to another site somewhere and see how it's progressing, so I can keep all of these fine people gainfully employed.
I'd probably have more fun just building one course a year ... if only I could count on the one I picked actually happening. Someday, I'll get back to that, but hopefully it's by design and not by circumstance.
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I love this thread.
Keep the stories coming guys!
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Brett is not only a great rake man, but he has a great eye for shaping. He spent a few months working with us at Mira Vista this summer where we relied on him for keeping an eye on the greens tie-ins to areas we preserved. Besides being good with hand tools, he has a knack for SandPro work, too. Very glad, Tom, that you had something for him to work on as I think he has a good future creating golf courses.
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Forrest:
Brett will be starting on a much larger piece of equipment a couple of months from now, halfway around the world.
Meanwhile, we kidnapped Zach and Jeff as they were headed back east after working on the par-3 Bandon Preserve course from start to finish. I hope nobody reports them missing!
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Damn, I love DR!
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Keystone light sales have skyrocketed in Mullen. Just watched the boys play the front. Cap'n hit it to 6 inches in 7.
We then hooked up with Brent Gander (Brett's stripper name) and took a ride across the river for an aerial view of the course above Little Horseshoe. The boys were blown away as you can see some really speacial views from up there. Remember, Lads, shhhh.
Ben Sims is a great guy and a hero in my book. He sure has alot to talk about when he gets home. Well received, indeed.
Jason - that M is for Mullen. We'll be posting a short video for Gander later on. I'll send him home with a bit of Red.
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When are the boys leaving? The last weekend I may have available is the one of the 24th. I need to get out one last time this year.
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Thanks for the updates fellas. It's thrilling seeing and reading how the golf course is taking shape...kudos to all involved. I find myself pining to pick up and move the family to Denver. If I could, I think I really and truly would. Can't imagine anything better than being able to take lots of weekend road trips to Dismal.
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How few men have the luxury of to few a weekend to enjoy the spoils of ones efforts. The men of Dismal are a lucky lot.
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When are the boys leaving? The last weekend I may have available is the one of the 24th. I need to get out one last time this year.
Dirt is home now, returning next week. Tom and Brian may be back once more to look at things before we put her to bed. The young bucks are here for 3-4 weeks, I think. Cap'n and Rober leave early tomorrow - if they survive tonight.
BedBoss - It is an amazing place. As you know, the spirit is very strong. See you soon.
One person not mentioned much is my good friend and little brother, our super, Jagger. He has done an absolutely amazing job out here and makes everyone look good. Also, Mark Stencel had been beyond valuable and helps make it all happen.
To a person, we have great people here - Teams Doak, Dirt, and Dismal.
Me? Just call me "Lucky".
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Really exciting to see the progress that the various "teams" at DR are making.
I'm beyond jealous of el capitain - looking good sir. Getting a taste of how the magic works must be just brilliant (and well deserved).
It's a lot less glamorous than it sounds, I'm sure, but you are all creating history and I'm sure there will be a swarm of "GCA types" arriving on campus in '12 to check it out - we're drooling already.
Keep livin' the dream out there Chris and crew!
Can't wait to enjoy that walk.
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Chris - how the heck did you get up to the top of Little Horseshoe?
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(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F3K_5DDffO0/Tm_5EF_ZIbI/AAAAAAAACoU/v9_hB1thsCE/s400/DSC_0731.JPG)
A different persepctive on the par 3 16th
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I think it's great how quickly this thread evolved from rank boosterism into an organic account of the collaborative process of building a golf course. Nice being a bit of a voyeur!
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(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F3K_5DDffO0/Tm_5EF_ZIbI/AAAAAAAACoU/v9_hB1thsCE/s400/DSC_0731.JPG)
A different persepctive on the par 3 16th
CJ, if you're still looking for a name, how about Old Nugent?
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I thought he'd already decided on Dismal 2.0!!
As a tribute to us GCA geeks/nerds! ;D
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Dan - Polaris Ranger across the cattle bridge. 4 guys, cooler, and plenty of Yucca slaloms.
Old Nugent may just work! ;)
Kalen 201 and 2.0?
Have to remember to send Sims a bill for all the mulch he took back
...on his clothes and hat.
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Has anyone been getting some of this design and build on HD video? I know Gil Hanse had been posting progress at Castle Stuart on YouTube.
It doesn't seem likely that we'll see much more course building out in the sand hills. I really wish that a professional videographer would have shot enough tape to do a documentary. Oh, I know how narrow or tight of a circle of GCA nerds are out there. But, with all the television reality shows about 'men at work' (Ice road truckers, Crabby Fishermen, Modern Marvels construction, and Asphalt Cowboys or Illi-ana) I actually think a documentary of the work on golf course development would be viable TV viewing. I think The Golf Channel really misses the boat on this. Building a course so pure as what the folks are doing out there at DR is just too good to pass up as a matter of documentary, and even historical value in years to come.
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That's a great idea!
Would make a great deep dive magazine series too.
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Has anyone been getting some of this design and build on HD video?
No, thanks! Between Sebonack and Old Macdonald [and a bit at Streamsong, too], I've already spent more time in front of a camera than I ever wanted to.
Hardly anybody really wants to watch that stuff. There are always some people on the crew who enjoy their 15 minutes of fame, but I can tell you from experience that it gets in the way of the creative process, because it's so distracting. Almost none of that "fly on the wall" stuff you see on TV is REALLY "fly on the wall," it's mostly staged or re-staged.
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(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F3K_5DDffO0/Tm_5EF_ZIbI/AAAAAAAACoU/v9_hB1thsCE/s400/DSC_0731.JPG)
Where would the tee be located in this picture and how long is the hole? For reference, I would consider the utility vehicle in the upper right quadrant of the picture putting it at two o'clock.
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Keystone light sales have skyrocketed in Mullen. Just watched the boys play the front. Cap'n hit it to 6 inches in 7.
We then hooked up with Brent Gander (Brett's stripper name) and took a ride across the river for an aerial view of the course above Little Horseshoe. The boys were blown away as you can see some really speacial views from up there. Remember, Lads, shhhh.
Ben Sims is a great guy and a hero in my book. He sure has alot to talk about when he gets home. Well received, indeed.
Jason - that M is for Mullen. We'll be posting a short video for Gander later on. I'll send him home with a bit of Red.
Keystone Light? I thought DR was more respectable than that. Surely there had to be Busch Light available somewhere....
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Don, Tom or anyone,
I'm curious as to why the 10 acres of turf was all hand raked, as opposed to using a sand pro with cultivator to break up the soil a bit? Root mass below, compaction?
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(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F3K_5DDffO0/Tm_5EF_ZIbI/AAAAAAAACoU/v9_hB1thsCE/s400/DSC_0731.JPG)
Where would the tee be located in this picture and how long is the hole? For reference, I would consider the utility vehicle in the upper right quadrant of the picture putting it at two o'clock.
Front/middle tees are at 11 o'clock [and you may be seeing the front of them at the top of the picture]. 130/115 yards from there.
Back/middle tees are at 10 o'clock. 164/150 yards from there.
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Thanks, hard to believe I caught myself looking at my watch to see where 10 o'clock would be in relation to 11.
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Tony,
The overwhelming theme here has been to leave as much natural contour as possible, rather than to create anything new. One green we finished this fall was literally tilled, tracked in, raked clean, and seeded. The finish work was extremely labor intensive but we managed to finish 6 greens in this manner in about 3 weeks. The speed at which we were able to finish is in part a testament to excellent green sites, good material, and great natural movement in the ground
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Jeff,
How's that bunker on 15 we talked about coming along? You had it looking pretty solid on Monday.
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This is getting to be a bit much now. I love it. I don't know anything about any videos either.
JC, it's a pretty nice looking hat I think, and a bit better than that avatar of yours ;)
And regarding everything else, it really is what it seems. A lot of hard work in the heat (though not today--40s with wind and rain), a lot of pride and joy in what we are doing, a lot of fun, and incredible hospitality by our host and staff. Also, the scenery is something else, especially from the top of the bluff. Mouth shut. ;D
Also, I believe I said something about 5-1 in a certain 4th quarter of a certain football game last Saturday night...
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Tony,
The overwhelming theme here has been to leave as much natural contour as possible, rather than to create anything new. One green we finished this fall was literally tilled, tracked in, raked clean, and seeded. The finish work was extremely labor intensive but we managed to finish 6 greens in this manner in about 3 weeks. The speed at which we were able to finish is in part a testament to excellent green sites, good material, and great natural movement in the ground
I understand and appreciate the desire to preserve God's gifts, and from the photos it looks like you're awash in them, but with a sand pro and cultivator that wouldn't be messing with contour... or do you feel you would be eliminating some really, really small stuff you'd rather preserve?
No import of rootzone/native sand from somewhere in the vicinity to any of the greens? I'm curious as to your green construction method.
Best of luck to everyone.
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Tony,
The green's construction method would be best described as push up...I guess. Except nothing is really pushed up, shaped in place is more like it.
The soil there looks to be quite fertile and tests out very well, especially the chemical tests as the pH is right where you'd want it and nutrients and minerals are in a nice balance. But, its taken thousands of years to get that way and all you have to do is drive around and see other scars such as utility trenches, construction disruption, and other areas of disturbance to see how long it takes for the soil to heal. Its a fragile environment and best not to disturb unless necessary. We'd like to hand over a course to Jagger that can be maintained with a low input emphasis rather then constant remedial work which is more common in golf construction.
As far as using the cultivator instead of the rake, the cultivator pulls up organic material that then requires more hand raking to collect and remove. Hand raking is slower, and more labor intensive, but a better approach if all you trying to do is get a clean seedbed with a minimum of soil disturbance. Also doesn't hurt that a rubber tire machine, even one with as light a footprint as a sand rake, isn't spinning endless donuts on your top soil.
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This is getting to be a bit much now. I love it. I don't know anything about any videos either.
JC, it's a pretty nice looking hat I think, and a bit better than that avatar of yours ;)
And regarding everything else, it really is what it seems. A lot of hard work in the heat (though not today--40s with wind and rain), a lot of pride and joy in what we are doing, a lot of fun, and incredible hospitality by our host and staff. Also, the scenery is something else, especially from the top of the bluff. Mouth shut. ;D
Also, I believe I said something about 5-1 in a certain 4th quarter of a certain football game last Saturday night...
That's it Hochstein, GLOVES OFF!! ;D ;D
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Jason - you may want to see the video before taking the gloves off!
Gander - the view was astounding from up there. Hope you post some pix of the 13,15 and 16 together in one frame from the top.
Tom - only their families know where they are!
Cold soggy day here. Back up to 70's and 80's the next few. Nicklaus course should be for the taking this weekend.
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All
I'm please to annonce we have achieved germination! We have grass on the Doak Course! Both the bent and fescue are coming in!
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Best news of the day. Miss the hydro-seed, the rakes, the sunburn and the late day cold one as you finish up.
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This is getting to be a bit much now. I love it. I don't know anything about any videos either.
JC, it's a pretty nice looking hat I think, and a bit better than that avatar of yours ;)
And regarding everything else, it really is what it seems. A lot of hard work in the heat (though not today--40s with wind and rain), a lot of pride and joy in what we are doing, a lot of fun, and incredible hospitality by our host and staff. Also, the scenery is something else, especially from the top of the bluff. Mouth shut. ;D
Also, I believe I said something about 5-1 in a certain 4th quarter of a certain football game last Saturday night...
That's it Hochstein, GLOVES OFF!! ;D ;D
I'm sure Brett is shaking in his boots. For the record, JC's nickname is Big Baby. That's because he's roughly the size of a hobbit.
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I know how exciting this time is. I remember when they seeded Gil's French Creek - I couldn't wait to get out there and just walk the course. Pretty cool times!
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Chris Johnston,
Congratulations to you and your team! In just a few short months, it has been remarkable to watch and read about the evolution of the Doak course since the inception of the project. I've enjoyed looking at the construction photos as well as reading everyone's input about the project. I anxiously await your next update! Keep it coming. Cheers!
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Ron. Thank you but, the truth is, I have very little do do with new course. This is Tom's baby in terms of design and I am very pleased with his vision and layout. The Irrigation is Don's baby and it thye attention to detail is equally impressive. They are doing what I believe will be some trendsetting things.
Most of the time I'm and interested spectator like you but I do go out from time to time to gently encourage the grass to grow.
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Ron. Thank you but, the truth is, I have very little do do with new course. This is Tom's baby in terms of design and I am very pleased with his vision and layout. The Irrigation is Don's baby and it thye attention to detail is equally impressive. They are doing what I believe will be some trendsetting things.
Most of the time I'm and interested spectator like you but I do go out from time to time to gently encourage the grass to grow.
This seems extremely difficult to do. There has to be some things you have suggested. What are they?
Anthony
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Anthony - it's quite true.
In the beginning, Tom did ask me a few questions.
How important is:
Par at 72? (Not important"
The course ending where it begins? (Not important)
Walkability? (Very important)
We did discuss the notion that the greens should be similar wrt speed to the Nicklaus course and the early controvery at the Nicklaus with the internal contours/speed - that led to bentgrass. Personally, I don't like slow greens, and one fast and one slow would have been problematic. Tom shared his vision for the course and I loved it.
Other than that, they have complete creative freedom. I can't speak for Tom, but the opportunity to build on a great site in the Sand Hills has to fulfill a dream. With Brian, Eric, Dirt, and the boys, I have full faith the the course will be among his best work. Tom mostly keeps me posted but simplicty and natural firt are already baked in. The greens will be unique and will be a hoot and the layout like nothing I have seen!
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Chris,
Thanks for the reply. Not even one little "Tom....I like that green on 14 at Cruden Bay".
Anthony
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Chris,
Thanks for the reply. Not even one little "Tom....I like that green on 14 at Cruden Bay".
Anthony
Anthony - I do like that green at Cruden Bay...then again, I like all of Cruden Bay. What a special place!
The 13th green is now completed and growing in - it required no major earthmoving - more greens are like this than not. I really does look like carpet was laid on the ground. I am thrilled with the 15th green but do give the boys a bit of the needle - it is very unique (reminds a bit of Cruden Bay) and fits the "moguls" that were already there. 16 green (with pix posted) is a delightful short par 3. While we are different personalities, Tom and I are very like minded. Don and I are too. I really can't wait to see 17 and 18 next year.
I suppose if I saw something I really didn't like, I would discuss it with Tom. The routing was mowed out two months ago, and I loved it. Very natural holes tied into spectaular backdrops is the best combination I have ever seen - its unique to the site and isn't PR. This one is different in so many ways. This is Tom's craft, he is pretty good at it, and he has the freedom to do as he wishes. I think that best and hope it is a dream job for Tom.
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Anthony,
I wanted to add to Chris' conversation on #13 to illustrate one of a million little details that we never hear about on this site when building a golf course. The finish work was fairly intensive on that hole. That isn't to say that there wasn't a very natural existing green there and a bunch of dirt was moved. On the contrary. When a site is so natural and requires so little tilling and/or earthmoving, the "duff" issue is more than we had on the other greens. Every time a rake went over an area, more organic stuff (roots, dead grass, etc) would sift out to the surface. Getting that green ready for seeding was very rake intensive vs. the other greens for this reason.
The other holes that were tilled a bit more or some minor cut/fill work was done, the duff issue was much less. So in effect, the more natural a green is, the more finish work it may require vs. a created surface. One of the many details I learned while up there.
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Ben - great add. Agreed - even a natural green is very complicated in its own way. You guys did a great job!
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Some updated photos from this morning at DR.
If you crush a good drive on 14 you might find yourself wth ths look
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0308.jpg)
If you hit it in the gunch, and have to pitch out, you might be here
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0311.jpg)
15 green
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0316.jpg)
A little closer
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0315.jpg)
And where you mght be if you get frisky wth your approach
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/CIMG0318.jpg)
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Don,
Thanks for posting. The 15th green looks awesome in those pix.
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Those pictures look great. So cool to see some grass on those holes. #15 is going to hurt some people.
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One of the VERY cool things I noticed out there was how Doak used distant "points of interest" on many holes.
As you know, the Sand Hills are essentially devoid of trees. Makes "finding" your way somewhat challenging. From what I saw, TD used distant blowouts and other features as a "directional". For example, on one hole, from the tee, the green is in the direction of an ancient blowout about a mile away high up on a hill. On another, you have Little Horseshoe, and so on.
It's a really beautiful feature that I think you'll love.
PS - About 2 years ago, I started a thread about "The Journey"*. Trust me, TD's routing at DR fills the description of a course where the golfer enjoys a Journey exceptionally well.
* - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39956.0.html
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Dirt - Great Pics. The grass really jumped while I was gone. Fescue really came in!
Wonder if I can play 16 with Kavanaugh and BedBoss later this week?
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Wow, Don. These pics look fantastic.
Are the current nightly temps (low to mid 40's forecast through this week) good, bad, indifferent... for growing in the grass(es)?
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(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/cc8fe899.jpg)
More to follow...
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Seeing mowing lines on #10 feels a lot like watching one of my students getting their first landing or barrel roll. Huge excitement seeing grass on what was bare sand a few weeks ago.
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Seeing mowing lines on #10 feels a lot like watching one of my students getting their first landing or barrel roll. Huge excitement seeing grass on what was bare sand a few weeks ago.
That par 3 in the background looks ok, no?
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Seeing mowing lines on #10 feels a lot like watching one of my students getting their first landing or barrel roll. Huge excitement seeing grass on what was bare sand a few weeks ago.
That par 3 in the background looks ok, no?
The bunker spraying we did on #11 looks really cool from back here on 10. I can see a tiny bare spot behind that big black pipe though. Whoever missed gunning that was slacking. :D
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Dirt - Great Pics. The grass really jumped while I was gone. Fescue really came in!
Wonder if I can play 16 with Kavanaugh and BedBoss later this week?
It's kind of frustrating to think you have a hole in one only to find there isn't a hole. Tom took his training wheels off for this one.
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John nearly aced both on the back!
More looks at 11.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/23540d31.jpg)
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/a9c11a19.jpg)
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(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/a23a8faf.jpg)
John nearly aces the 11th!
John, Chris and I toasted the end of the 2011 season at Dismal with a Sunday morning game of dirt golf on the new course. Shocker -- I'm in love with the golf course. As a whole, it will offer a heck of a thrill ride with one turn after another of the kind of golf I think most folks around here thirst for. Paraphrasing John Kirk, where: 'watching the ball interact with the ground' provides much of the thrill gca fans and the like admire.
During my initial tour back in July, I fell hard for the lower 10, just as I think most everyone did, and that's understandable, because it is unlike anything any of us had seen before. But what may have gotten lost on that visit, at least as far as I'm concerned, was how good the upper 8 holes are. Sure, from the first time I laid eyes on the 3rd, I felt it was going to be a special hole, and I was awestruck by the big, brawny 5th as well, but both of those are par threes where I didn't have to visualize so much where the fairway was before me. The tees and green sites were already there on both of those holes, much like they are on the rest of the golf course. I suppose I missed some of the more subtle characteristics when everything in view was cut to one length back then. The upper holes are much more edifying in their current state, which is low mowed and (nearly?) dormant baked out prairie grasses on top of pure sand along with some roughed in bunkering that helps in putting the holes together, though I doubt they'll do much to help one's scorecard when complete! I am now of the opinion that the upper 8 rivals the lower 10 in terms of quality golf and it would be difficult for me to choose one over the other as a favorite.
Some highlights from our round...
The first begins with a fairly friendly handshake - a shorter par 5 with plenty of width to ease you into the round. John and I both made 4. Knock it to within 10 feet of the pin and its a one putt in dirt golf. Wish we had a standard bearer..."Hey, we're 1 under on the Doak!", with Johnston at level par...20 feet. :-)
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/2f845dd4.jpg)
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/7828803a.jpg)
Crew working alongside 1 green.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/e19f33ab.jpg)
2 is a longish devil of a four played out into a sea of dunes. John hit a beautiful, blind hybrid second shot from down below the ridge that landed 50 yards short and bounced and rolled for what seemed like forever until reaching the front of the green. Two putt par for JakaB. The second was one hole I know I overlooked on my initial tour in July. The whimsical nature of playing a blind shot over a sand hill promises to thrill.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/b71bc1ec.jpg)
I think the members tee allows a tee shot to carry to the upper portion of the fairway in most winds. Correct me if I'm wrong here guys.
5 was into the teeth of the wind and we played the back tees here. None of us reached the green with driver. It is a half par from here on days like yesterday for most players.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/20f06622.jpg)
5 from the back tee. +/- 245 yds.
John and I talked a lot about the new course on the drive back to Denver and we're both on the same page regarding the upper 8 holes: the golf up there is special, along some fantastic ground, with views that'll put a tear in your eye. (Probably the wind.) When the wind's really cranking up there like it was yesterday, you'll be glad to see that the holes are designed to allow for it, with an abundance of width provided.
Another thing I liked about this golf course is the more intimate routing. There are a few spots where multiple greens and tees are within your immediate periphery as well as what will be a really cool, enormous shared fairway on the 14th and 15th holes and I like all of that, mainly because it is a departure from the way the Nicklaus course is routed (mostly). Heck, the whole thing is different from the Nicklaus course (which I also love) and that, to me, is what makes Dismal that much more special.
Some shots from our round yesterday:
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/090b2296.jpg)
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/a644fe82.jpg)
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/26d47d5e.jpg)
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/286b4dde.jpg)
3
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/b4830b3b.jpg)
Looking down in the bunker on 3
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/e45d3b11.jpg)
View from the bottom of bunker at 3. Chris is on the green.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/72d08540.jpg)
3 green
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/46acf5a6.jpg)
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/38dc5dd4.jpg)
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/bbce4e9a.jpg)
10
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/ae39bc1b.jpg)
11
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/d41ddcef.jpg)
13
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/e33dbecb.jpg)
13 green
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/2a669a0b.jpg)
17 fairway
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/50031484.jpg)
17 looking back
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/6ecc7966.jpg)
18 tee
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/deae6fc4.jpg)
18 approach
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I like the green shirt.
Anthony
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Eric - Great Pics!
Eric and John - Great times!
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Are you closed for the year now?
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Are you closed for the year now?
Morgan - Last Sunday was closing day. We will slowly out the course to sleep over the next month. Irigation blowout won't be for a month. We play the course(s) alot in the offseason. You coming out this way?
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(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/6ecc7966.jpg)
I got a hair cut and I look much thinner now in person. What I found most interesting and what some will find unbelievable is how the tee sites exist as naturally as the greens. This is one tee on 18 out on a peninsula with several others just sitting there waiting to be used. There will be some tree removal but little dirt moved leaving an amazing finishing hole.
Just this year someone told me that I must have been an amazing athlete to be able to hit the ball considering all the crap going on with my body. Now I wonder where the compliment in that statement lies. I can't believe I bought pants that large without going to the big and tall store. Driver, 9 iron in case anyone is asking.
note: Eric posted a few new pictures on page 4. Not fair sneaking them in the back door.
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John....How's the uric acid?
Anthony
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John - just play with me. You'll always be the thin guy!
Never seen you hit the driver better.
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Wow - yellow golf balls. Hadn't seen one of those in a while.
Is it the picture or is that ball being played quite a bit up in JakaB's stance? High power fade?
In all seriousness, thanks for posting these construction photos. I've always been fascinated as to the whole process, and am enjoying seeing this project as it develops.
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Scott,
Thanks for the negative swing thought right before my Tuesday game. Yes, it was a power fade. What else would a player hit off the contour of that fairway?
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John,
Glad to be of service!
Of course it screams for a high fade - it's just that not many of us can dial up a shot at will.
Me, I would have played my patented low-draw that may or may not have ended up in the fairway.
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Wow, wow and wow.
Thanks for posting Eric.
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Thanks for posting all the pictures.
The Renaissance Boys seem to simply make the right decisions based on logic. When one first arrives at Dismal River (which I did mid-construction of the first course) one instantly knows that the land where the Doak Course is located is a special place. Interests me that the the first course was not there from the get go............I am not say the location for the Nicklaus course is bad, it just wouldn't have been my first choice. Nonetheless, great golf in the land of the Huskers is a good consolation for the poor performing football team in Lincoln. Go Big Red.
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(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/6ecc7966.jpg)
I got a hair cut and I look much thinner now in person. What I found most interesting and what some will find unbelievable is how the tee sites exist as naturally as the greens. This is one tee on 18 out on a peninsula with several others just sitting there waiting to be used. There will be some tree removal but little dirt moved leaving an amazing finishing hole.
Just this year someone told me that I must have been an amazing athlete to be able to hit the ball considering all the crap going on with my body. Now I wonder where the compliment in that statement lies. I can't believe I bought pants that large without going to the big and tall store. Driver, 9 iron in case anyone is asking.
Great image.
Nothing cooler than hitting off a natural tee before it gets "improved". You get to tee it up - who needs the tight bent?
Reminds me of the tees on another Doak course - Apache Stronghold
JK - pounds can be shed, but having hair - hence the ability to wear a visor - is better..
note: Eric posted a few new pictures on page 4. Not fair sneaking them in the back door.
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I wish I could have been there to watch football with CJ.
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Jason - I was wondering where you were...that was like watching paint dry or bread toast, only longer. A lot less exciting than watching grass grow!
Congrats to the Sparties!
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For those worried about Nebraska, don't fret. The Buckeyes are coming to town this Saturday evening. Big Red will destroy them.
The last time the Buckeyes were 11 point underdogs was the National Championship Game in which they beat Miami. It was interference JF, sorry.
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Congrats to the Sparties!
Chris,
You seem like a glass-half full kind of guy, which is great, but let's not get carried away. Michigan will be 5 point favorites in East Lansing or I will be taking out a second mortgage. We all know all that town's good for anyway is easy access to a Medical Marijuana Card... ;)
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Congrats to the Sparties!
Chris,
You seem like a glass-half full kind of guy, which is great, but let's not get carried away. Michigan will be 5 point favorites in East Lansing or I will be taking out a second mortgage. We all know all that town's good for anyway is easy access to a Medical Marijuana Card... ;)
How many years in a row is this that Michigan has won both the September National Championship and the September Heisman? You'd think after 3 years of this you'd wait until after October to talk trash. Hopefully you'll get to 7 wins this year, I know how hard that has been after your previous 5-0 starts.
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Congrats to the Sparties!
Chris,
You seem like a glass-half full kind of guy, which is great, but let's not get carried away. Michigan will be 5 point favorites in East Lansing or I will be taking out a second mortgage. We all know all that town's good for anyway is easy access to a Medical Marijuana Card... ;)
How many years in a row is this that Michigan has won both the September National Championship and the September Heisman? You'd think after 3 years of this you'd wait until after October to talk trash. Hopefully you'll get to 7 wins this year, I know how hard that has been after your previous 5-0 starts.
If you want to start talking about history, I don't think you'll win that argument. All that matters is what happens at noon EST a week from Saturday with the current lineups... (fyi- in 1902 we won 119-0... ;D)
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Fitting with the stereotype, the UM guy brings up victories from the early 1900s as a defense to their current condition. Congrats on your wins against Chicago High School. It must pain you to know that we outnumber you in National Championships 6-2 since WW2 (I mean, if you want to talk RELEVANT history, that is).
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FYI,
the latest edition of Golf Course Architecture magazine reached my house last week. I was excited to see the article on the new course as Dismal. But horrified to see a picture of Kavanaugh accompanying the article!!! :o
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FYI,
the latest edition of Golf Course Architecture magazine reached my house last week. I was excited to see the article on the new course as Dismal. But horrified to see a picture of Kavanaugh accompanying the article!!! :o
I only wish he had been identified as a rater.
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FYI,
the latest edition of Golf Course Architecture magazine reached my house last week. I was excited to see the article on the new course as Dismal. But horrified to see a picture of Kavanaugh accompanying the article!!! :o
Which pic / hole, Mac? I sent Kav into a brief GCA.com retirement with those pics, so if he's now in a periodical at the local dentist office I may never hear from him again. Sorry buddy!
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Eric - you have been given photography credit and you are now published!
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Eric...
It is the first picture in post 137. And yes, Mike is right, right next to the photo it says, "Photo: Eric Smith". 8)
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In the attached pictures of #15, is that green as big as #5 at Old MacDonald. What is the yardage? Is it designed to be a Short?
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For those worried about Nebraska, don't fret. The Buckeyes are coming to town this Saturday evening. Big Red will destroy them.
The last time the Buckeyes were 11 point underdogs was the National Championship Game in which they beat Miami. It was interference JF, sorry.
Geez, I just saw this. Late flag, no penalty, let the players dictate who wins not the referee. At least we won this year.
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Jim:
Myself, like the referee, call them like we see them.
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For those worried about Nebraska, don't fret. The Buckeyes are coming to town this Saturday evening. Big Red will destroy them.
The last time the Buckeyes were 11 point underdogs was the National Championship Game in which they beat Miami. It was interference JF, sorry.
Geez, I just saw this. Late flag, no penalty, let the players dictate who wins not the referee. At least we won this year.
that penalty has to be one of the worst all -time sports calls in any sport, ever!
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In the attached pictures of #15, is that green as big as #5 at Old MacDonald. What is the yardage? Is it designed to be a Short?
Michael:
The 15th hole is a short par-4. I was surprised to find that it's the biggest green we've built so far -- it started out to be the smallest, but I added a big section to the right after missing the green repeatedly when play-testing the routing. It will still be hard to hit, I think.
The par-3 is the 16th hole. It is a fairly large green with multiple levels, because we were trying to tie in hole locations at the front and back that were more than two feet apart in elevation. But, it's not intended to be based on any Macdonald hole -- nothing at Dismal is. And it's only half the size of the 5th green at Old Macdonald.
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Tom - I only saw the routing on our "gator ride" tour in July, and I was extremely impressed. Great job by you and your team!
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Tom-
How different are the hills/mounds/dunes at Dismal than Sand Hills? I have played both and can certainly look at the pictures and see differences, but I can't "really" tell. The hills look a little more gentle at DR than SH to me. I realize they are only a few miles apart the way the crow flies so they can't be too different probably, just wondering if you can notice any major differences...
Thanks
Chip
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Tom-
How different are the hills/mounds/dunes at Dismal than Sand Hills? I have played both and can certainly look at the pictures and see differences, but I can't "really" tell. The hills look a little more gentle at DR than SH to me. I realize they are only a few miles apart the way the crow flies so they can't be too different probably, just wondering if you can notice any major differences...
Thanks
Chip
Chip:
They are as different as any two links courses -- say, Sandwich and Deal.
My general impression is that the terrain at Dismal River is bigger and broader than at Sand Hills. There is more vertical change, but less frequency of undulation. That could just be because Coore & Crenshaw routed their course on the gentlest portions of the terrain they had to work with, and Jack Nicklaus went for bigger and bolder things.
Our own site is different than either of the above, because we are leading down to the river. There is twice as much elevation change overall as Sand Hills*, but it doesn't feel like it when walking the course because I cheated and finished lower than I started. Still, I would say the contours on our ground are a bit gentler than on the other course at Dismal, with a few exceptions. Chris' observation that he expected our holes to be laid out in the valleys, and it's really not, is spot on.
* actual elevation changes:
Dismal River II: high point 3444 (6th tee), low point 3260 (16th green) = 184 feet of elevation change
Sand Hills: high point 3335 (3rd tee), low point 3255 (8th fairway) = 80 feet of elevation change
I might be the only person in the world to have the topo maps for both courses. Dick Youngscap gave me the GPS plan of Sand Hills after Bill and Ben had flagged it all out.
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A bit OT: If you ever want to see something really cool, check out the C&C routing stick diagram hanging in the Sand Hills dining room. It's amazing how many holes were sketched out to reach the "final 18".
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From the DRII Routing thread (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51858):
Course routing
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/7e69bf2e.jpg)
And the overlay that Jim Colton posted
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CzNAziJT38w/T49gBiHzhRI/AAAAAAAABvI/A_3RG_AIxQU/s1600/dr2.jpg)
I'll have a few new pics to post momentarily.
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Please understand that on the Colton inspired picture the unseemly buildings and such are the maintenance facility and employee lodging, neither of which can be seen from the course.
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Check out how the big bunker to the right of the 3rd green is developing...
July 2011
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5077/5908439355_3d497b124c_b.jpg)
May 2012
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/83473463.jpg)
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How long is that hole? That bunker looks really cool.
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How long is that hole? That bunker looks really cool.
Sam,
200 yds or so from there.
I too think that bunker is cool, but you probably don't want to go in there! I took this shot last fall from down near the bottom. That fella up top is standing on the green.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/e45d3b11.jpg)
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How long is that hole? That bunker looks really cool.
Sam,
200 yds or so from there.
I too think that bunker is cool, but you probably don't want to go in there! I took this shot last fall from down near the bottom. That fella up top is standing on the green.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/e45d3b11.jpg)
I'm screwed, my draw would have to come in over that bunker, give me a 4.
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Call me crazy Eric, but you know it IS possible to hit a ball straight! :) If it draws anyway, at least you don't make worse than four from the left of that green.
Since my misses are mostly left, I was carefully checking out what a miss left would mean for each hole when we were touring the course last summer. This one didn't look so bad, we should just leave it to the slicers to be terrified on this tee!
That is one deep bunker though, these photos do not do it justice at all...
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That is a very nice photo of #3. There are quite a few guys out here with cameras so hopefully more will be posted as I'm sure many great photos have been snapped in the last few days. Construction is moving at a brisk pace here as Brian Schneider and Jonathan have been working their magic with most of front 9 shaped, and holes 5 & 6 will be completely irrigated by tomorrow. Seeding to start very soon.
I have a feeling the 5th major participants will like what they see.
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Don:
That was a pretty good week ... we have basically shaped all of the front nine (with a couple of bunkers left to finish) in three weeks, with a D-5 and an excavator. You can't do that on most pieces of ground!
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Don:
That was a pretty good week ... we have basically shaped all of the front nine (with a couple of bunkers left to finish) in three weeks, with a D-5 and an excavator. You can't do that on most pieces of ground!
So badly want to be there. I'm out of the fight! :(
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Don:
That was a pretty good week ... we have basically shaped all of the front nine (with a couple of bunkers left to finish) in three weeks, with a D-5 and an excavator. You can't do that on most pieces of ground!
So badly want to be there. I'm out of the fight! :(
Ben - you and your spirit are missed.
Things are really coming along ;)
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Some photos from earlier today courtesy of Jaeger Kovich.
#3 Par 3 190...ish? (not sure)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0954.jpg)
#5 Par 3...230?...more or less
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0944.jpg)
#6 Par 4 from the back...300 or so...(I think)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0946.jpg)
From a little closer
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0948.jpg)
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Don:
I believe the sixth hole is about 340 yards from the back tee.
Looks great ... looks like the bunkers to the left are already getting a bit of wind shaping. When are you going to start putting down seed?
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Don:
I believe the sixth hole is about 340 yards from the back tee.
Looks great ... looks like the bunkers to the left are already getting a bit of wind shaping. When are you going to start putting down seed?
Tom,
Nice work with the shaping - not too sure about the wind shaped bunkers - I cant help feeling that the natural big pit bunker on 3 should have been left alone almost like Calamity at Portrush.
I would have thought a few sod wall pot bunkers like the ones at the Renaissance Club in Scotland would be better suited for this landscape rather than 'flash up' bunkers which I feel are detrimental to the original look ie. the landscape before the golf course was constructed and sod wall pot bunkers would 'hide' the sand as well as protect it from the wind which will reduce the amount of sand to re fill these bunkers. Its just my personal view.
Would love to play Dismal one day and look forward to seeing the finished article.
Cheers
Ben
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Tom,
Been a bit on the windy side, expect 4 grns to be seeded by thurs/fri.
Ben, those wind shaped bunkers you find detrimental to the landscape are actually naturally occuring all over the sand hills.
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Tom,
Been a bit on the windy side, expect 4 grns to be seeded by thurs/fri.
Ben, those wind shaped bunkers you find detrimental to the landscape are actually naturally occuring all over the sand hills.
Hi Don,
Thanks for letting me know as most of the pre-construction work photos show natural grassy hollows - it is nice to have some reference to other parts of the landscape. Having seen the photos again - where are these sand hills? as I can't see them in close vicinity to the new golf course in these recent photos.
Cheers
Ben
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Why did the architect feel compelled to improve upon this?
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5077/5908439355_3d497b124c_b.jpg)
Bogey
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Michael,
Bunkers are less penal and more beautiful than gunch. Why would anyone want a guy who just missed a 200 yd par three to have to take an unplayable lie? I don't think you would prefer they planted grass which in the Sand Hills is less natural than a bunker. Damn thing would probably turn into a bunker anyway with all the golfers climbing up and down the thing once play begins.
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INCREDIBLE
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Good point, except now he can take an unplayable after he leaves his bunker shot short in the bank.
That depression is as beautiful a natural golf course feature as I've ever seen. Look at all that room to the left and explain to me why on earth anyone would not desperately try to avoid it at all costs.
Actually Barney, I'd prefer to fill the bottom and have one hell of a dell, but that's not my point. Should not an architect not always ask WWED - What Would Engh Do?
Respectfully,
Bogey
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What's the prevailing wind on that hole?
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Good point, except now he can take an unplayable after he leaves his bunker shot short in the bank.
That depression is as beautiful a natural golf course feature as I've ever seen. Look at all that room to the left and explain to me why on earth anyone would not desperately try to avoid it at all costs.
Gravity will fight balls that desire to stay on the bank. As far as why anyone would end up to the right I ask myself the same question on 14 at the Nicklaus course. The penalty is as much physical as mathematical given the difficult climb up and out of the hole. At least it is earlier in the round. I hope the green is built so that those who bail, fail. You know, not everyone plays for bogey.
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I hope the green is built so that those who bail, fail. You know, not everyone plays for bogey.
Doesn't that explain the squirell?
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I guess a lot of the questions about the nature of our third hole need a bit more background.
The natural grass cover in the sand hills is a mixture of all sorts of grasses -- everything from buffalo grass to orchard grass to a bit of fine fescue here and there. John Kavanaugh used the quaint midwestern term "gunch" which accurately depicts what it feels like when your all is in it and the cows haven't grazed it down lately.
To turn the hazard right of #3 into a grassy hollow like at Portrush would require irrigation and seeding to fine fescue -- and the 2:1 slope down into the bunker would STILL be difficult to maintain no matter what the circumstance.
A smaller bunker like the one on the left would probably hold up a bit better in the wind if it were revetted, but revetting bunkers every 2-3 years is not entirely cost-effective, either. Sand Hills Golf Club has had success in reducing wind erosion over the last few years by using a soil cement in the winter months to prevent things from blowing around, and that's likely how we will address the issue at Dismal.
I just got back from Pacific Dunes where we went over all the same issues -- it's much tougher to solve there because the golf course is always in play and the wind is always in play, too.
P.S. to Jud: Prevailing wind in the sand hills is "full on", but the direction changes often enough that it's not much use trying to peg it.
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I guess a lot of the questions about the nature of our third hole need a bit more background.
The natural grass cover in the sand hills is a mixture of all sorts of grasses -- everything from buffalo grass to orchard grass to a bit of fine fescue here and there. John Kavanaugh used the quaint midwestern term "gunch" which accurately depicts what it feels like when your all is in it and the cows haven't grazed it down lately.
To turn the hazard right of #3 into a grassy hollow like at Portrush would require irrigation and seeding to fine fescue -- and the 2:1 slope down into the bunker would STILL be difficult to maintain no matter what the circumstance.
A smaller bunker like the one on the left would probably hold up a bit better in the wind if it were revetted, but revetting bunkers every 2-3 years is not entirely cost-effective, either. Sand Hills Golf Club has had success in reducing wind erosion over the last few years by using a soil cement in the winter months to prevent things from blowing around, and that's likely how we will address the issue at Dismal.
I just got back from Pacific Dunes where we went over all the same issues -- it's much tougher to solve there because the golf course is always in play and the wind is always in play, too.
P.S. to Jud: Prevailing wind in the sand hills is "full on", but the direction changes often enough that it's not much use trying to peg it.
Thanks for the background and details in the decision making process - maintenance is an obvious consideration. I still think the untouched "pit" looked unbelievable untouched reminding me of the right side of #13 at Lahinch along with the mention of Portrush. Could it have been left completely natural - without any further seeding or irrigation and what would the downside have been?
Cheers
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Maybe this doesn't matter to the purists in the world but when I take guests out the the Sand Hills they want to play out of the sand. It would be an embarrassment to drive up from North Platte seeing bunker after natural bunker along side the road to arrive at a golf course with man made grass hollers. I also don't get why anyone would want bunkers on a golf course that look different than the ones in the wild. Jesus people, you don't think you see golf holes for miles and miles because there are tees and greens scattered out in the distance. It's Bunkerville, USA.
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Maybe this doesn't matter to the purists in the world but when I take guests out the the Sand Hills they want to play out of the sand. It would be an embarrassment to drive up from North Platte seeing bunker after natural bunker along side the road to arrive at a golf course with man made grass hollers. I also don't get why anyone would want bunkers on a golf course that look different than the ones in the wild. Jesus people, you don't think you see golf holes for miles and miles because there are tees and greens scattered out in the distance. It's Bunkerville, USA.
Jesus John ;)...what has been suggested by a few and answered by Tom is that ONE specific natural pit LOOKED great and might have been left untouched. Tom has hinted that he thought about leaving it alone before maintenance considerations - is this fair to say Tom? Bunkerville, USA?
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hollers? are they adding soul food to the bbq menu out there? speaking of which, what type of BBQ sauce is indigenous to the Sand Hills?
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Will,
I'm being selfish here because I have to play the thing.
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P.S. to Jud: Prevailing wind in the sand hills is "full on", but the direction changes often enough that it's not much use trying to peg it.
This video (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150241202118416) gives a taste of what the wind CAN be like out there. Buckle up!
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Will,
I'm being selfish here because I have to play the thing.
Then just bail out left! ;) Being a teacher, I am tempted to drive up there this summer to see Nicklaus' course and Doak's in progress. Dismal seems to be a great destination with your 19th through 36th holes in the making!
Did you happen to sneak out to play that hole when Tom had only staked it...any holes for that matter?
Cheers
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P.S. to Jud: Prevailing wind in the sand hills is "full on", but the direction changes often enough that it's not much use trying to peg it.
This video (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150241202118416) gives a taste of what the wind CAN be like out there. Buckle up!
Eric,
How normal...or abnormal is this?
Cheers
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I guess a lot of the questions about the nature of our third hole need a bit more background.
The natural grass cover in the sand hills is a mixture of all sorts of grasses -- everything from buffalo grass to orchard grass to a bit of fine fescue here and there. John Kavanaugh used the quaint midwestern term "gunch" which accurately depicts what it feels like when your all is in it and the cows haven't grazed it down lately.
To turn the hazard right of #3 into a grassy hollow like at Portrush would require irrigation and seeding to fine fescue -- and the 2:1 slope down into the bunker would STILL be difficult to maintain no matter what the circumstance.
A smaller bunker like the one on the left would probably hold up a bit better in the wind if it were revetted, but revetting bunkers every 2-3 years is not entirely cost-effective, either. Sand Hills Golf Club has had success in reducing wind erosion over the last few years by using a soil cement in the winter months to prevent things from blowing around, and that's likely how we will address the issue at Dismal.
I just got back from Pacific Dunes where we went over all the same issues -- it's much tougher to solve there because the golf course is always in play and the wind is always in play, too.
P.S. to Jud: Prevailing wind in the sand hills is "full on", but the direction changes often enough that it's not much use trying to peg it.
Tom,
We have large grassy fescue hollows in the UK - Calamity at Portrush, Ca Canny at Turnberry plus a few at Sandwich which are unlikely to be irrigated at all and their grass are left to go 'yellowy' in colour which is natural and a much more sustainable approach and only require a flymo (with a string) cut every 2 weeks or monthly. Why irrigate the rough areas??? only the greens, tees and surrounds need it (maybe the fairways as well but not watered as much unless required). If the rough was watered it just makes it thicker and requires more cutting.
I would avoid revetting the bunkers but construct turfed 'wall' bunkers, with shallower faces in parts, which are easier and cheaper to maintain over the years than a revetted bunker and windblowed one. This would reduce the cost of sand as well as the sand is at the base of the bunkers and less likely to get blown away. I have worked as a greenkeeper and it has given me an insight what bothers them the most.
Cheers
Ben
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Some observations...
1) We are critiquing a golf course pre-grassing, pre grow-in, on how its bunkers look? Has anyone here been to the Sand Hills? The wind driven evolution of bunkers in the Sand Hills has been written about ad nauseum. Not only that, but the natural wind-blown look to them is basically the only aesthetic that would look natural to the area. There are splotchy grasses sand scrapes all over the place.
2) The huge pit to the right of 3 green is hard by the green. People will miss the green by hitting in there. In fact, it will be a very common miss if the wind is into the golfer. Leaving it as-is would have been an option, if traffic weren't an issue or if the architect wanted the hole to be much more penal. With enough traffic, it will become sandier and more bunker-like. Not only that, it is unmowable on the slopes. The photo is question makes the grass on the pit seem relatively benign and playable. It ain't. Making parts of that pit a bunker seems to be the only way to preserve some playability while not compromising the feature, in my opinion.
In my opinion, I think one needs to have some familiarity with the local conditions before they critique a golf course pre-seeding.
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"Why woud the architect choose to improve on this?"
I have some pictures of the Sand Hills Golf Club that I think most people would be shocked to see with respect to bunkering. Enhancing mother nature can take place in many forms.
I have often thought that the grass bunkering that exists in the sand hills of Nebraska have been under utilized with respect to The Sand Hills GC, Dismal (1), Prairie Club, and perhaps even Wild Horse. If the bunker referred to above had been left alone and had received heavy foot traffic it may very well become the bunkering that Mr. Doak and crew have created. Having grown up in the area I often notice the creation of bunkers in traffic zones, with cows, trucks, or even foot traffic. The power of the wind in Nebraska is easily underestimated.
Great to see this course coming to be here. Regrets I was unable to visit last week.
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Some observations...
1) We are critiquing a golf course pre-grassing, pre grow-in, on how its bunkers look? Has anyone here been to the Sand Hills? The wind driven evolution of bunkers in the Sand Hills has been written about ad nauseum. Not only that, but the natural wind-blown look to them is basically the only aesthetic that would look natural to the area. There are splotchy grasses sand scrapes all over the place.
2) The huge pit to the right of 3 green is hard by the green. People will miss the green by hitting in there. In fact, it will be a very common miss if the wind is into the golfer. Leaving it as-is would have been an option, if traffic weren't an issue or if the architect wanted the hole to be much more penal. With enough traffic, it will become sandier and more bunker-like. Not only that, it is unmowable on the slopes. The photo is question makes the grass on the pit seem relatively benign and playable. It ain't. Making parts of that pit a bunker seems to be the only way to preserve some playability while not compromising the feature, in my opinion.
In my opinion, I think one needs to have some familiarity with the local conditions before they critique a golf course pre-seeding.
Ben,
We are just having "some frank commentary on golf course architecture"! Yes, this includes critiquing with or without knowing every detail of what Tom had to consider. This is how people learn - both us and, possibly even the architect. Your points are well taken without the critique of the critiquing. :) And no, I've never been to the sand hills but have played a good amount of links golf overseas and at Bandon (for 5 months). That doesn't mean I should simply bitE my tongue. I'm also pretty sure that the suggestion of leaving that pit all natural is not limited to those of us who have never been to that region.
Cheers
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Will,
I'm being selfish here because I have to play the thing.
Then just bail out left! ;) Being a teacher, I am tempted to drive up there this summer to see Nicklaus' course and Doak's in progress. Dismal seems to be a great destination with your 19th through 36th holes in the making!
Did you happen to sneak out to play that hole when Tom had only staked it...any holes for that matter?
Cheers
I have played the entire course post mow out and pin placement. Several pictures on this very thread document said fact.
I for one enjoy everyones commentary, questions and suggestions during this period of construction and grow in. Our most beloved member may have even at one time hoped for a grass holler as opposed to a bunker on #3. The only recommendation I ever recall making is that we have bent greens as opposed to fescue. I love the bent grass greens at Sand Hills and on the Nicklaus course.
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Will,
I'm being selfish here because I have to play the thing.
Then just bail out left! ;) Being a teacher, I am tempted to drive up there this summer to see Nicklaus' course and Doak's in progress. Dismal seems to be a great destination with your 19th through 36th holes in the making!
Did you happen to sneak out to play that hole when Tom had only staked it...any holes for that matter?
Cheers
I have played the entire course post mow out and pin placement. Several pictures on this very thread document said fact.
I for one enjoy everyones commentary, questions and suggestions during this period of construction and grow in. Our most beloved member may have even at one time hoped for a grass holler as opposed to a bunker on #3. The only recommendation I ever recall making is that we have bent greens as opposed to fescue. I love the bent grass greens at Sand Hills and on the Nicklaus course.
John,
I forgot that was you! I am envious as every armchair architect dreams of playing a course pre-construction! Have you ever had that opportunity before?
Cheers
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Will,
I do not recall ever playing a course pre-construction. As far as I am concerned DD was post-construct during my round. I played from the tees to the greens. On one of the par 3's we were sure that I had a hole-in-one only to find there was not a hole as defined by the rules of golf.
This was also the case the first time I played the Nicklaus course. They had set the course up for winter and removed the cups and pins. It was as much fun as I had ever had golfing. Once we made it on a green each golfer would place a tee next to their ball and putt to their opponents. Fewest strokes won of course. Didn't take a cart, we rode in the pro's Jeep. The kitchen was also closed for the winter and all they had in my room were a couple of Snickers and a bottle of Jack. No wonder I joined.
Why aren't you coming to the 5th Major?
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Will,
I do not recall ever playing a course pre-construction. As far as I am concerned DD was post-construct during my round. I played from the tees to the greens. On one of the par 3's we were sure that I had a hole-in-one only to find there was not a hole as defined by the rules of golf.
This was also the case the first time I played the Nicklaus course. They had set the course up for winter and removed the cups and pins. It was as much fun as I had ever had golfing. Once we made it on a green each golfer would place a tee next to their ball and putt to their opponents. Fewest strokes won of course. Didn't take a cart, we rode in the pro's Jeep. The kitchen was also closed for the winter and all they had in my room were a couple of Snickers and a bottle of Jack. No wonder I joined.
Why aren't you coming to the 5th Major?
Fascinating!
As far as the 5th major is concerned, timing isn't great with a family trip we have planned down here from Atlanta to VA. Also, aren't all spots settled? If not, I'll double check on my dates...maybe!?
Cheers
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I know its only pics and I'm sure the 3rd will be a teriffic hole...
...but put me in the camp with Bogey. I thought that big grassy pit looked completely awesome and was a tad surprised its got bunkering in it now. Whats wrong with having a nasty beast like that on a private course where having a stack of groups on your tail won't be an issue. You could even make a local rule that its a red stake hazard so people wouldn't have to take the walk of shame on a lost ball.
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I've got two cottages and if someone, possibly me, doesn't end up sleeping on the couch I will be surprised. Given the trivialities of life and family their will of course be both no-shows and cancellations. Too many golfers and too few beds is not going to be a problem.
I don't know how many of you are familiar with The Wire but Dismal has two pool tables. I look for someone to be laid out like a dead policeman at Kavanaugh's Pub.
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I know its only pics and I'm sure the 3rd will be a teriffic hole...
...but put me in the camp with Bogey. I thought that big grassy pit looked completely awesome and was a tad surprised its got bunkering in it now. Whats wrong with having a nasty beast like that on a private course where having a stack of groups on your tail won't be an issue. You could even make a local rule that its a red stake hazard so people wouldn't have to take the walk of shame on a lost ball.
This is a picture that Eric took from the bottom of the hole adjacent to 3 green. The guy up top is not King Joffrey's Hand.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/e45d3b11.jpg)
btw: Maybe a few walks of shame would get you out to the practice range.
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Ben,
We are just having "some frank commentary on golf course architecture"! Yes, this includes critiquing with or without knowing every detail of what Tom had to consider. This is how people learn - both us and, possibly even the architect. Your points are well taken without the critique of the critiquing. :) And no, I've never been to the sand hills but have played a good amount of links golf overseas and at Bandon (for 5 months). That doesn't mean I should simply bit my tongue. I'm also pretty sure that the suggestion of leaving that pit all natural is not limited to those of us who have never been to that region.
Cheers
Yes, you're right of course. No one should ever bit their tongue. That would of course cause pain and perhaps a better understanding of past vs. present verb usage. We wouldn't want that.
Also, I must ask a question. Were those opining on what was better for the golf course critquing it without knowing every detail, or without knowing any detail? :)
Will, I wasn't referring to you--or anyone--specifically in my first post above. My main intention was to highlight the amount of "critque" coming from all directions, prior to any explanation on the process of deciding what to do with certain features (which Tom subsequently provided).
I think what I wanted to convey is that those bunkers look anything but out of place and that epic hole next to 3 green will be one of the most talked about features on any modern golf course for years to come whether it is grassed or not.
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And here's the view looking down into the mouth of the beast:
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/b4830b3b.jpg)
Both pics were taken in October, so the grasses, thorns, spikey plants, etc...weren't likely growing any longer but were plenty hardy, though nowhere near as lush as they were in the 'green valley' state we experienced during our June tour. It's my opinion that a golfer hitting into that junk would lose their ball and if they did find it - and tried to play it - they'd hate it. I think I would. I for one love the look of the work the crew is doing and can't wait to see it in person in a few more weeks.
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Ben,
I'd like to believe that, but reality is, most golfers out there don't even know what/where Cypress Point is, much less golf courses in the middle of nowhere Nebraska.
It shall remain one of the little hidden nuggets for those of us who care/are interested on a deep level.
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I can report from experience that if we had left the big pit in its native state, only about half the golfers would have found their ball, and most of those who did would be headed to a score of 6 or more.
Can anyone name me a hazard in golf that severe?
I think this is a case of the double standard between just-built courses and older ones. I've never heard anyone suggest that the dune bunkers at Sandwich or St. Enodoc should have been grass bunkers instead. For that matter, some of the same people who are wondering about this bunker have had orgasms in public over the picture of Bob Huntley in the bunker to the left of #4 at Sand Hills, which is the most comparable example I can think of.
I hope that Sir Bob has a chance to test out this bunker one day, as well.
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Ben, I asked a simple question.
You called the bunker "epic."
So which of us is offering "critique?"
BTW, I have indeed golfed my ball in the sand hills and likely am more familiar with the gunch than you or Barney.
Kindest regards,
Bogey
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Some photos from earlier today courtesy of Jaeger Kovich.
#3 Par 3 190...ish? (not sure)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0954.jpg)
#5 Par 3...230?...more or less
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0944.jpg)
#6 Par 4 from the back...300 or so...(I think)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0946.jpg)
From a little closer
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0948.jpg)
Hello!! Didn't realize you'd posted these, Don - thanks! And thanks Jaeger!
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And here's the view looking down into the mouth of the beast:
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/b4830b3b.jpg)
Both pics were taken in October, so the grasses, thorns, spikey plants, etc...weren't likely growing any longer but were plenty hardy, though nowhere near as lush as they were in the 'green valley' state we experienced during our June tour. It's my opinion that a golfer hitting into that junk would lose their ball and if they did find it - and tried to play it - they'd hate it. I think I would. I for one love the look of the work the crew is doing and can't wait to see it in person in a few more weeks.
Two words: 1) Round-Up; and 2) Punchbowl 8)
Bogey
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Ben,
We are just having "some frank commentary on golf course architecture"! Yes, this includes critiquing with or without knowing every detail of what Tom had to consider. This is how people learn - both us and, possibly even the architect. Your points are well taken without the critique of the critiquing. :) And no, I've never been to the sand hills but have played a good amount of links golf overseas and at Bandon (for 5 months). That doesn't mean I should simply bit my tongue. I'm also pretty sure that the suggestion of leaving that pit all natural is not limited to those of us who have never been to that region.
Cheers
Yes, you're right of course. No one should ever bit their tongue. That would of course cause pain and perhaps a better understanding of past vs. present verb usage. We wouldn't want that.
Also, I must ask a question. Were those opining on what was better for the golf course critquing it without knowing every detail, or without knowing any detail? :)
Will, I wasn't referring to you--or anyone--specifically in my first post above. My main intention was to highlight the amount of "critque" coming from all directions, prior to any explanation on the process of deciding what to do with certain features (which Tom subsequently provided).
I think what I wanted to convey is that those bunkers look anything but out of place and that epic hole next to 3 green will be one of the most talked about features on any modern golf course for years to come whether it is grassed or not.
Wow Ben...feisty in your critique of verb tenses...or rather simply mispellings. This is perhaps why I teach Pre-Calculus rather than English. :)
I don't remember anyone saying that the "pit" being left all-natural would be "better for the golf course"? Correct me if I am wrong. I simply remember folks expressing their aesthetic preferences with albeit less consideration for playability than the architect must take. I DID consider playability and feel like if I found myself in that depression, I'd get what I deserved given the massive amount of space to the left and beyond. I've played RSG and Lahinch (to which I compared that hazard) and Royal County Down where I have encountered very similar ground. I found it to be exhilarating frankly. I am a solid player and do understand the problems higher handicaps would routinely run into, certainly, which seemed to drive the decision to a large extent - playability.
I also don't remember anyone saying the bunker looks "out of place." The sentiment that I and others expressed was simply that true minimalism in practice would have seen that pit left completely in it's original state. If that scenario is never considered - and I am pretty sure that Tom Doak of all people did consider it - the designer, in my humble opinion, isn't thinking the design through - which he did. I fully trust that the hole will turn out to be world-class - it already is in fact, pit OR bunker, grass or dirt. But aren't we entitled, nay obliged, to ask "What if?"?
Cheers
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Ben, I asked a simple question.
You called the bunker "epic."
So which of us is offering "critique?"
BTW, I have indeed golfed my ball in the sand hills and likely am more familiar with the gunch than you or Barney.
Kindest regards,
Bogey
Bogey, (weird saying that, it's my Labrador's name)
It is 100% true you asked a question instead of offering a critique. My mistake in saying you offered a critique.
By the way, I hit a couple shots out of that hole last September. Leaving it native would have been a decision based in romance instead of reality.
Will,
You're right, you never said any of those things. I never said that you said any of those things. If you reread my reply, you will see that I wrote, ""Will, I wasn't referring to you--or anyone--in particular when I wrote my post above."
Let me be clear in what my opinion of many of the questions were. :) Revetted bunkers would look dumb in the Sand Hills. Native blow outs--or bunkers scraped out by excavator and then shaped by the wind--are in my opinion the easiest way to maintain sand hazards in that environment. Playability is a concern for native areas, and that hole is better with some bare sand areas rather than all native. It's an opinion yes. But my opinion is based of having played out of the hole and keeping playability in the forefront. Not how "minimalist" it would be to keep the hole as is, or some idea of aesthetics gleaned from a photo.
Will, of course this site is for discussion, I am not saying we shouldn't discuss. But is it your opinion that the mob can just discuss without any true knowledge of the situation? Tom, Don, Chris, Zach and many others could set us straight in an instant about why the bunkers are better as blowouts and the hole is better as partial bunker.
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Isn't the point of minimalism to make it look like it's been there forever? Seems to me if they left it as grass and enough foot traffic and hacks and slashes were made out of the pit, eventually the wind would take care of the rest. So in my mind, Tom & crew are just advancing the clock by 30+ years.
Where does the green start on the 3rd hole? (Not so) false front?
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No, a water hazard is better because after the splash all you got to do is take a drop. I love the finality of water. Crawling down into one of these holes only to return without a ball is akin to climbing Mount Everest and forgetting your flag. Too much effort with nothing to show for it.
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I would have thought the feature would have been left as it.....after all, Tom did set a precedent for this.
The 16th at Pacific Dunes: Missing the green right and short and ending up in a divot riddled lie in the rough and facing a steep up hole shot to a shallow green with a nasty bunker behind is probably more penal than the 3rd at Dismal 2.0 will play.
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/60/6070/AWJD100Z/posters/stephen-szurlej-pacific-dunes-golf-course-hole-16.jpg)
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I would have thought the feature would have been left as it.....after all, Tom did set a precedent for this.
The 16th at Pacific Dunes: Missing the green right and short and ending up in a divot riddled lie in the rough and facing a steep up hole shot to a shallow green with a nasty bunker behind is probably more penal than the 3rd at Dismal 2.0 will play.
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/60/6070/AWJD100Z/posters/stephen-szurlej-pacific-dunes-golf-course-hole-16.jpg)
Kalen,
You might have a point if the 3rd at Dismal was a drivable par 4.
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Is the 3rd at Dismal as narrow of a green as 16 at Pacific Dunes.
If so, I will be playing it as a par 4!
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Is the 3rd at Dismal as narrow of a green as 16 at Pacific Dunes.
If so, I will be playing it as a par 4!
I think most will play it as a par 4 no matter the size of the green. The good news is that the par 5 first plays as a par 4 so if you can get by the second, no small task, you will be even.
Funny how everyone is ignoring the small bunker left that looks to be forming.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0954.jpg)
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Is the 3rd at Dismal as narrow of a green as 16 at Pacific Dunes.
If so, I will be playing it as a par 4!
I think most will play it as a par 4 no matter the size of the green. The good news is that the par 5 first plays as a par 4 so if you can get by the second, no small task, you will be even.
Funny how everyone is ignoring the small bunker left that looks to be forming.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0954.jpg)
So if this to play as a NADER (and I'm not sure it's intended to...), does that mean one must flirt with the bunker left to get the requisite kick toward a back pin? If that's the case, nice design. ;)
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Funny how everyone is ignoring the small bunker left that looks to be forming.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/DSC_0954.jpg)
I can make 4 from there.
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Given my propensity to get scared and hit too much club on par threes with fronting hazards I can see myself finding the back bunker. That could be a difficult 4 given the "false front". Some poor soul will eventually find all three bunkers during the same play. At least its all downhill from there as I believe this is the high point of the course.
Nice strategy in aiming for the front left bunker to guarantee a four. We might even call it the Bogey bunker.
I like really difficult third holes where you won't make your round but you just might lose it.
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Isn't the point of minimalism to make it look like it's been there forever? Seems to me if they left it as grass and enough foot traffic and hacks and slashes were made out of the pit, eventually the wind would take care of the rest. So in my mind, Tom & crew are just advancing the clock by 30+ years.
Jim, Are you under the assumption that hollow was natural? From my untrained eye, that was someones attempt to grab material. From it's look, I'd guess at least 10 years ago, because thats about how long it takes it to return a natural vegetative state.
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Isn't the point of minimalism to make it look like it's been there forever? Seems to me if they left it as grass and enough foot traffic and hacks and slashes were made out of the pit, eventually the wind would take care of the rest. So in my mind, Tom & crew are just advancing the clock by 30+ years.
Jim, Are you under the assumption that hollow was natural? From my untrained eye, that was someones attempt to grab material. From it's look, I'd guess at least 10 years ago, because thats about how long it takes it to return a natural vegetative state.
That makes two of us Adam!
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Why would someone bring in an excavator to create that borrow pit when they could have just scraped the top of a hill off with a smaller tractor? I'm guessing meteorite strike.
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What a great thread. Really appreciate you folks posting pictures and the DR group for encouraging/allowing it.
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Tom,
Can you give us an approximation for the size of #3 green - it looks huge.
Cheers
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Tom,
Can you give us an approximation for the size of #3 green - it looks huge.
Cheers
Will:
As I recall, the green is between 7000 and 7500 square feet. Some of the lighter-colored sand at the front left is part of the approach, not part of the green ... there is too much fall there for it to be green surface. The majority of the green surface falls from left to right and from front to back. There's a bit of a ridge along the top of the big bunker, so you are unlikely to putt into it.
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Tom,
Love what you did with the bunker and what was carved out to sand, pure art IMO. Ten points! Shed some light on me though and leaving the gruch. Sounds like it is pretty close to the green and if you get in the grunch it pretty much unplayable. Can´t it be overseeded to increse the desensity and make it playable?? Some say to steep to mow?? So that means you probably won´t be able to retrive your ball either? Is the sand compacted where the ball won´t plug? If it does those slope will be hell to maintain with people hiking up them and then trying to create a stance.
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Tom,
Can you give us an approximation for the size of #3 green - it looks huge.
Cheers
Will:
As I recall, the green is between 7000 and 7500 square feet. Some of the lighter-colored sand at the front left is part of the approach, not part of the green ... there is too much fall there for it to be green surface. The majority of the green surface falls from left to right and from front to back. There's a bit of a ridge along the top of the big bunker, so you are unlikely to putt into it.
Tom,
And the hole is about 190 from the back tees but about how far uphill - is there 15 feet of elevation gain? Could it be called a reverse Redan with the slope you describe? Or is the orientation of the green not quite angled enough? Or, would you simply not prefer to label it?
Cheers
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The feature on the right side of #3 is very much natural. There are several such "scoops" on the property, a few much larger.
What may have caused this, if anything? My guess is Bison. There were Sioux tribes in the area who camped along the Dismal. A tale is told that Buffalo Bill engaged in an "Indian battle" on the property. Arrowheads can be found - quite common out this way. The Souix tribe was nomadic and moved all over the area, camping near water, covering several states. We are 2ish hours from Fort Robinson, where the final "Renegade Sioux" surrendered, where Crazy Horse incarcerated and murdered. The Wounded Knee Massacre "battlefield" is even closer.
The property has been used long before "we" arrived. Just off of Tom's 16th green is an anchient "buffalo run" which crosses the Dismal providing access through the "steeps". I'm guessing it's been there for centuries, or more.
There is a very interesting and massive feature to the left of 17 Nicklaus. Very large and very much the "big brother" of the scoop left of #3. Once of the coolest green sites I have seen anywhere. Today, home for deer and other critter's. Most people never even notice it - but, if you have look, it is mesmerizing.
As far as #3, I'm certain you don't want to hit in there and love what Tom and the crew have done. The course has really come alive and I believe it will be one of Tom's most special. The holes (and bunkers) really fit the land and its spirit. If the wind would lay down, Don could begin to seed her in. Jaeger Kovich worked yesterday in ski goggles - odd in that it was quite warm.
As far as legend, I rather like the meteor strike. Or a Ghost dance hall.
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The holes (and bunkers) really fit the land and its spirit.
Chris,
Ditto!
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Chris - can we get pictures of the back nine? I want to see the terrain that Mr. Smith is going to be walking 82 holes on!
BTW - I tested myself to see if I could do the 100 hole hike.
Jim Colton - if you rename it the 54 hole hike, I am in (even though I was pretty sore on Sunday).
I could do 72 for a good cause - which would require me to take a week of golf off afterwards for rehab.
100 holes - I would have to be the charity as I am not sure I could walk again after that.
However, I really applaud everyone that is doing it - great idea and great causes.
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Chris - can we get pictures of the back nine?
Mike,
Allow me to once again present "John in Unripened Avocado" from page 6 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49453.125.html):
10 tee
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/bbce4e9a.jpg)
18 tee
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/Tom%20Doak%20course%20at%20Dismal%20River/6ecc7966.jpg)
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I just got back from Dismal last night. The construction continues and the course is really taking shape. When I left last time, 18 was just starting to be worked on pretty hard core. Here is a picture of the approach on 18 as of Thursday...
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/DismalDoak18app.jpg)
It really looks pretty sweet to me.
When I left on Sunday, the RGD team was hard at work on the 12th hole. The green site is gonna be spectacular!!
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Hi Mac,
Did you take any pictures of 16?
Jason
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Hey Jason...
I don't think I did. I don't have all my photos with me right now, but I'm pretty sure I got 17 and 18 photos as they were the most changed from my last visit...but I don't think I took any of 16. Sorry.
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Jason:
We changed #16 green a bit on Saturday to make the left-hand hole location more accessible by lowering the front left bunker and taking a bit of downslope out of the green just behind it. I think that's a pretty cool green now. Five holes left to irrigate and seed -- 10, 12, 13, 14, and 15 -- but the shaping is complete apart from #13 fairway where we are starting to fill the ravine.
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I just got back from Dismal last night. The construction continues and the course is really taking shape. When I left last time, 18 was just starting to be worked on pretty hard core. Here is a picture of the approach on 18 as of Thursday...
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/DismalDoak18app.jpg)
It really looks pretty sweet to me.
When I left on Sunday, the RGD team was hard at work on the 12th hole. The green site is gonna be spectacular!!
Holy Cow, what a difference in the 6(?) weeks since The 5th Major.
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Bruce...
I'm no construction expert as I've only visited 5 construction sites and this is the first course I've seen start from unadulterated land. However, I am stunned by how quickly things are moving...by how quickly grass comes up...by how quickly the land becomes golf-able. I'm unsure if that is because the land is so good, RGD is so good, or if this is just the way it always. But I'm impressed nonetheless.
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Tom, what approximate yardage is 16 again from the tips?
Thanks Mac, would love to see a picture the next time if you remember. I was there last month and stood on the tee for quite some time and I almost didn’t want to leave. I was having a flashback on the back 9 to when my grandfather took me to the sand hills when I was a boy, I honestly felt like I had been on that spot before.
Jason
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Tom, what approximate yardage is 16 again from the tips?
Thanks Mac, would love to see a picture the next time if you remember. I was there last month and stood on the tee for quite some time and I almost didn’t want to leave. I was having a flashback on the back 9 to when my grandfather took me to the sand hills when I was a boy, I honestly felt like I had been on that spot before.
Jason
Jason:
The back tee isn't built yet (though they will probably build it in the next day or two). I shot it the other day at 179 yards from a natural rise for the tee, and told Brian Schneider to shove it forward and to the right a little bit, so it should wind up around 170. It's a big green with three small hole location areas, and it sure wouldn't have been easy with the wind that was blowing there yesterday.
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Not sure if its already been mentioned here, but I was just catching up on my reading and saw the nice article about Dismal, Tom and Chris in the Aug 10th issue of Golfweek. Pages 48-49. Check it out!
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I just got back from Dismal last night. The construction continues and the course is really taking shape. When I left last time, 18 was just starting to be worked on pretty hard core. Here is a picture of the approach on 18 as of Thursday...
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/DismalDoak18app.jpg)
It really looks pretty sweet to me.
When I left on Sunday, the RGD team was hard at work on the 12th hole. The green site is gonna be spectacular!!
What a beaut, Mac. I might even use putter from there!
Tom,
Has the green on #12 been shifted from where we were shown it was to be when there in July?
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Tom,
Has the green on #12 been shifted from where we were shown it was to be when there in July?
It's been shifted back on the end of the ridge, to the right of the former green location. We decided that it would be too easy for long hitters to drive the green, and we already had a drivable par-4 on the back nine running in the same direction -- #15. It's a scary approach now, even for those who can drive it over the hill.
Also, moving the green gave us more room for the back tee for #13, which was really needed. I still think #13 may be the standout hole on the course.
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I still think #13 may be the standout hole on the course.
From the start the talk has been about the depression on #3, the length of #5, the backdrop of #9, and the three hole finish. When the course is done, the talk will be about how good #4 and #13-#15 are.
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Tom, I'm sure you are correct regarding 13. For me, I struggle to "see" the hole in its current state.
Ben...you might be correct. But 3 is pretty darn cool nevertheless. And for me it isn't the backdrop alone on 9, it is the tee shot. I LOVE diagonal forced carries and this one has some severe teeth. I really think 12 will be a stunner with the new green location. The tee shot on 17 will introduce a unique vibe/feeling. And 18 is breaktaking with an approach unlike anything I can recall. Frankly, the entire course looks off the charts. You could say the runs of 3-6, 11-18, or 13-16 are the best and I wouldn't argue with you.
All I can say is that walking up 16 and through the green on 18 this last week, my jaw was dragging the ground. The course really, really looks good.
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Am I the only one who had no idea that the front of 18 green would look like that? I vividly remember standing there as Tom told us the plans for that green entrance (which may or may not have involved covering up and draining something very natural :) ) . I in no way pictured it like this. This is way better than anything I would have dreamed up.
That's where I see the magic in GCA. I may be wrong, but I imagine they could have almost left it in it's natural state and it would have been good. To have the vision to to take something natural, change it completely, make it a better golf hole and still make it look entirely natural is the amazing part to me. So glad we were able to take the tour at the 5th Major. To be able to see the before and after was worth the price of admission.
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When does the new 18 open?
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John:
It should open sometime next summer. We've got 13 holes planted and 5 more to get planted in the next 30 days. Those holes will be quite a bit behind the rest, so when it's all ready depends on what the standard is. If you called next summer "preview" play, a la Bandon, everyone should be very happy with the conditions, but it probably won't be at 100% until the fall of next year.
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Is it just me or is that opening on #18 quite narrow? Will there be more removal of the ca-ca that brackets the currently depicted sliver of an opening? With the steep face of that green approach it would seem natural to have more width to run or bounce a ball into that green. I realize that just viewing pictures can alter or distort the scale of what is actually present over the ground. Thoughts?
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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Is it just me or is that opening on #18 quite narrow? Will there be more removal of the ca-ca that brackets the currently depicted sliver of an opening? With the steep face of that green approach it would seem natural to have more width to run or bounce a ball into that green. I realize that just viewing pictures can alter or distort the scale of what is actually present over the ground. Thoughts?
It's a little bit narrow, and it will stay that way for now. The bank in front of the green is steep enough that I don't think too many people are going to bounce one on there, regardless. So now if you're short off the tee, you have to decide whether to go down through the gully with a club you're sure you can hit straight, or hit a bigger club at the green and take your chances if you're short, or go over to the left, or lay up.
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Thanks Tom. I curious as to why you wouldn't soften the nose of that green a little and provide a bit more width at the approach to allow for that run-up option, especially for the slasher like me who will frequently be coming in from distance. You generally advocate having a variety of play options, so is this just an exception where you feel the hole should be gained primarily via the aerial route?
The course looks like it will be a stunning romp when done. I regret I had to back out of this Summer's 5th Major and hope to get out there within the next year.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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I am looking forward to watching balls go splash in the Dismal River. I hope they construct a small bridge so we can recover those balls that are hit clean to the other side. The river is gonna be full of "options".
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"It's like a dude ranch for golf."
Nice Golfweek feature on Dismal River and the Doak course.
http://golfweek.com/news/2012/aug/17/nebraskas-dismal-river-shows-softer-side/ (http://golfweek.com/news/2012/aug/17/nebraskas-dismal-river-shows-softer-side/)
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"It's like a dude ranch for golf."
Nice Golfweek feature on Dismal River and the Doak course.
http://golfweek.com/news/2012/aug/17/nebraskas-dismal-river-shows-softer-side/ (http://golfweek.com/news/2012/aug/17/nebraskas-dismal-river-shows-softer-side/)
;D
This...
"Johnston bears a passing resemblance to the late comedian John Candy".
What a guy!!!
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I always thought the 201 was in reference to the build.
Good read, thanks for posting.
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(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/johncandy.jpg)
Maybe, a little bit. :D ;D :D
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Well, if I were Chris, I'd have another 196 marker made and place it 5 yards closer on the same 9th hole (obviously) and make an annual tradition out of placing new yardage markers every time the ranking changed. I think John Candy would like that.... :)
Is this Chris picking up a little extra cash hiring out at the neighbors place?
(http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/14/56/32/3335862/3/628x471.jpg)
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Tom,
Has the green on #12 been shifted from where we were shown it was to be when there in July?
It's been shifted back on the end of the ridge, to the right of the former green location. We decided that it would be too easy for long hitters to drive the green, and we already had a drivable par-4 on the back nine running in the same direction -- #15. It's a scary approach now, even for those who can drive it over the hill.
Also, moving the green gave us more room for the back tee for #13, which was really needed. I still think #13 may be the standout hole on the course.
Tom it was great seeing you work on hole 12 last weekend! The new green site is excellent, it is a much stronger hole now.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is this new green site will be the first glimpse of the golf course that a member or guest will see when they drive into Dismal River. It will be a really cool first impression.
The whole course looked amazing and will be great, but from 12-18 are the best.
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I am looking forward to watching balls go splash in the Dismal River. I hope they construct a small bridge so we can recover those balls that are hit clean to the other side. The river is gonna be full of "options".
There shouldn't be a bridge. Swimming/wading to the other side should be the punishment for the combination of hitting that bad of a shot and being that big of a cheapskate.
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18.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/524377_10151124180183416_1930974032_n.jpg)
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Eric,
Way to take a picture of the guy taking a leak in the bushes. ;)
Mark
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What is it with you Dismal guys taking 1 picture of the golf course and posting it??? Mac's has sun glare and you can barely see anything and Eric's is of a guy taking a leak?
Do we need Saltzman out there in order to get a half decent picture? ;)
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If you are ever fortunate enough to meet a member of Dismal you will know you have met a golfer. If you want a photographer you may be out of luck.
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What is it with you Dismal guys taking 1 picture of the golf course and posting it??? Mac's has sun glare and you can barely see anything and Eric's is of a guy taking a leak?
Do we need Saltzman out there in order to get a half decent picture? ;)
This was my thought exactly! :D
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If you are ever fortunate enough to meet a member of Dismal you will know you have met a golfer. If you want a photographer you may be out of luck.
John - have you already put our round out of your memory bank? I folded the best I could for you and your partner, don't know how much more hospitable I could have been.
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If you are ever fortunate enough to meet a member of Dismal you will know you have met a golfer. If you want a photographer you may be out of luck.
John - have you already put our round out of your memory bank? I folded the best I could for you and your partner, don't know how much more hospitable I could have been.
You would have won the whole thing if you had beat me...but you already knew that.
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If you are ever fortunate enough to meet a member of Dismal you will know you have met a golfer. If you want a photographer you may be out of luck.
John - have you already put our round out of your memory bank? I folded the best I could for you and your partner, don't know how much more hospitable I could have been.
You would have won the whole thing if you had beat me...but you already knew that.
John - if I have learned one thing, everyone likes the loser. Why risk winning and ruin it???
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I did not see John Candy when I was out there, but I thought that Rex Ryan was greeting us with a cooler of beers when we pulled in!
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We were going to buy Chris a Jets hat. I'd love to see a side-by-side: Chris vs. Rex :) (Chris is better looking, and smarter to boot!)
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Played where the sun always shines this weekend. Despite dower weather warnings
http://theinterrobang.com/2012/10/dont-worry-denver-frankies-got-you/
a great time was had.
http://pics.lockerz.com/s/251503651
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There's Eric - always front and center.
Nice of you John to cover yourself up and give the spotlight to the rest of your group in the picture. You look like Yukon Cornelius ;)
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A camera on the golf course?
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Played where the sun always shines this weekend. Despite dower weather warnings
http://theinterrobang.com/2012/10/dont-worry-denver-frankies-got-you/
a great time was had.
http://pics.lockerz.com/s/251503651
Thanks for the invite 2 years ago, JK. A lot has changed since that trip!
Here's a good one of you teeing off at the 6th.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/246608_419828658083761_1700821548_n.jpg)
And Doc Wellmon at the 3rd.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/20121007_101556_zps2640f449.jpg?t=1349800634)
Lastly, here is another view of the gap at the entrance to 18 green.
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/20121007_135236_zps41cabb32.jpg?t=1349800499)
Tons of room to shoot the gap if one were inclined to do so.
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So how good did the front nine turn out? (With greens at about 6 on the Stimpmeter, most likely.)
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So how good did the front nine turn out? (With greens at about 6 on the Stimpmeter, most likely.)
I think it turned out great. The turf has progressed unbelievably since the summer. Hole 5 is definitely the furthest along tee to green. Perfect.
4 is my favorite hole. From the back tee is the best in order to really open up the view of the left hand fairway. We had a winter wind that made reaching the fairway on 9 very difficult so we moved up to the forward tees allowing for a more straight on approach across the road.
The new greensite on 12 is excellent. Actually the entire hole is. Great looking tee shot with just enough intrigue and doubt as to where the fairway might end to keep the first timers honest. That is one of the coolest spots on a course full of them.
17 tee is one of the more thrilling I've played.
The finish work on 18 including the native areas short of the green really do help to give the course its own unique identity. I think it all adds up to a wonderful course that complements the other perfectly, making for one heckuva 36 hole day in the sand hills.
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Holy cow. (appropriate, seeing how this was a ranch last summer). This is porn for a golf nut,
Brilliant. Beautiful. Exciting.
Sublime
Cool
A+
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What's a little cool weather to stand in the way of a walk on the second course at Dismal.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-12.jpg)
The first, tee shot.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-11.jpg)
Second shot landing area. Perhaps 120 from the green. The bunker on the right and narrowing of the fairway perhaps 40 yards out leaves you with a choice. Either be sure you can get there or lay up 70 - 120 yards short.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-14.jpg)
To a rather contoured green.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-15.jpg)
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The second tee shot in June at The Fifth Major during our tour.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20River%202012/photo-5-2.jpg)
And the fairway.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20River%202012/photo-6-2.jpg)
And last weekend. Approaching the landing area.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-42.jpg)
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The par 3 3rd with a massive and deep blowout bunker guarding the right side.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-41.jpg)
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And the 4th. Turned out to be one of my favorites. Lots of room left although it doesn't look that way from the tee. You can carry the center line bunker based on the wind, and there is a lower fairway down to the right which would leave a blind second shot.
Mike on the tee.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-16.jpg)
But the view from the back tees is special. That is #3 green on the right.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-17.jpg)
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5 and 6 are a LONG par 3 (driver) followed by a short par 4.
All I have is a dreadful cell phone pic of the 5th.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-40.jpg)
Mr Doak says you should make a total of 7 for these 2 holes whether it's 3,4 or 4,3.
I'm still trying.
I don't have a pic of the 6th since I haven't hit the fairway (or green) yet. Mission accomplished Tom.
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7 goes downhill. From the back tees, the bunker comes into play significantly.
From the middle tees, take it over the bunker based on the wind. The wind direction will change the options on this hole.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-18.jpg)
8 is all downhill par 5 and our first glimpse of the wonderful backdrops that frame the last 10 holes.
What you can't see are the fairway contours. Hit a shorter drive and it's a blind second shot. A long drive really helps here.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-44.jpg)
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The 9th. The road hole.
Bite off what you can.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-19.jpg)
The approach to an infinity green out on a peninsula with a significant drop off right.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-43.jpg)
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Bruce - thanks for the pics. It's amazing how far it's come since we were there for the 2011 5th Major.
Combine "New" with the original course, and DR has one amazing pair of golf courses.
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The 10th. Straightaway par 4 across the deep ravine that is to the right of the 9th hole.
CJ about to send one deep.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-39.jpg)
To a green perched on the tip of a penninsula.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-21.jpg)
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The 11th is a par 3.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-22.jpg)
I can't remember what hole this is, but it's such a thing of beauty that I had to post it. Butter.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-38.jpg)
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All I have is a pic of the approach on #12.
And good news, I'm due for my every 2 year upgrade on my cell phone this week which will put an end to poor quality pics.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-23.jpg)
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June 2012.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20River%202012/photo-7-1.jpg)
October 2012. 13 tee shot. Dogleg right.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-37.jpg)
Before.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20River%202012/photo-8-1.jpg)
With a downhill approach. And another great backdrop. Just beautiful.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-24.jpg)
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14 is such a great, unique hole visually with the 2 mounds framing the fairway.
One you can reach, one not. Just a great look. the green is tucked behind the second mound.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-36.jpg)
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Downwind for us, 15 was almost reachable. Almost being the key.
I wound up on the downslope with an uphill approach to a tiny target area. I might rethink that next time.
Note the "valley" in front of the green.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-34.jpg)
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16 is a nice par 3 going right up to the edge of the Dismal River.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-26.jpg)
I don't have a picture of the tee shot on 17. It is a blind shot to a terraced landing area. If you land on the right side of the fairway, you will be at the same elevation as the green. From center and left, you have a downhill approach to another green adjacent to the river.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-33.jpg)
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Very cool stretch of holes. I love that 13th! Thanks for sharing Bruce.
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Really amazing how things have changed since the end of June! Thanks for the Pics, Bruce. TW
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And we reach the epic 18th. Sort of a nice setting, I would say.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-32.jpg)
The tee shot.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-31.jpg)
The approach. I had 196 in. lt is a stout finisher.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-27.jpg)
Looking back.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-29.jpg)
It is amazing how much has changed since the 5th Major. They were raking 18 green then. Unbelievable.
19-36 at Dismal is fantastic. I don't think I have ever played a course that had as much variety to the holes as this.
It's walkable. It's visual. I can't wait to see it in 2013.
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad310/wellmond/Dismal%20Fall%202012/photo-30.jpg)
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I even walked the course. As a matter of fact I expressed to Chris that if we were allowed to take push carts I would walk every time. Of course this is based on my love of the old course which makes a perfect cart venue late in the day.
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And to think think it was this close to being a Tiger Woods design.... :
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/dismal-river-sandhills-ballyneal-nebraska-golf/
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How much play has the new course received this fall?
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And to think think it was this close to being a Tiger Woods design.... :
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/dismal-river-sandhills-ballyneal-nebraska-golf/
How close was it?
I didn't know $15MM* away was close?
My guess for fee + construction + excess maintenance
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And to think think it was this close to being a Tiger Woods design.... :
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/dismal-river-sandhills-ballyneal-nebraska-golf/
How close was it?
I didn't know $15MM* away was close?
My guess for fee + construction + excess maintenance
Mike:
Rumor has it that Tiger's group was going to design the course for free, so I would guess your $15 million figure is pretty high.
Still, I don't think there is any way he would have got his course built for anywhere near what we spent -- fee included.
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Tom: , but did you get a sense from what you saw for Tiger's design philosophy and whether he had a good eye for design? Or was his project driven by seasoned professional with Tiger adding a bit of input here and there?
I always get the impression that Tiger was more sophisticated than the majority of other tour players where appreciation of great design was concerned - maybe that has carried over into his thoughts about design?
Brian:
I've always thought that Tiger had a pretty good sense of design and golf strategy from the way he attacked courses.
However, I wasn't around at all when he was on site at Dismal River, and I never had a peek at whatever plan he and his team suggested for the course, so I have no way of answering your question.
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Back from a trip out to Dismal.
I was stunned by the progress of the Doak course from just the time that has elapsed from the 5th Major (about 5 weeks).
The greens are just about perfectly grown in, the turf is a fast and firm as I've ever seen, and the green speeds to undulation/contours was darned near perfect. Simply, WOW!!! Might be the best maintenance meld to design intent I've seen.
Here's a shot of the 6th hole. 290 yard par 4 from the members tees.
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu239/mplumart/DismalDoak6_zps1072d397.jpg) (http://s651.photobucket.com/user/mplumart/media/DismalDoak6_zps1072d397.jpg.html)
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No. 6 got the better of me all three times I played it last weekend. Still haven't figured out how much less than a driver is th proper tee shot. Of course, the wind will have something to do with the correct choice. But you're spot on about the course condition. Superb for such a new layout, with only a couple spots lagging, such as no. 12 fairway 75 yards in, but that was definitely outside the norm and reportedly due to a later seeding followed by a bit of a deluge.