Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Chris Johnston on August 12, 2011, 08:24:56 PM
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Fellow GCAers:
Many have asked for it, you've got it! We have scheduled September 16-18 for a GCA/Rater weekend at Dismal River Golf Club. You may come out to see (or get reacquainted with) our wonderful existing course and we will arrange for afternoon all access tours of Tom Doak's new layout, now under construction. Now, you can see firsthand what all the "fuss" is about and fall in the Sandhills can be special.
We very much believe good golf should be shared, so golf will be an unheard of $85 for all day play and rooms will be offered at "Member Accompanied" rates on a first come/first served basis.
The course is in terrific shape, the food is wonderful, and the accomodations are simply as good as it gets out this way. Feel free to come with a buddy, or bring your spouse. We may even throw in a rainbow, or an evening light or star show!
Your first beer is on me, and we will have plenty of pork chops, meat loaf, and dry aged steaks ready for you. Cigars at the fire pit on the back deck?
Call or email me if you are interested.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/donmahaff/JulyphonePics045.jpg)
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Chris, I am already booked that weekend with two other friends and look forward to the trip. Thanks for great offer and see you then.
Jason Hines
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better make sure Mr Speaker has his group gone first. we have some strong opinions here.
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I'm already booked to be there! Cool!!
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Wow Chris. What a great idea. I can tell you all, the turf in the fall here is wonderful. Cool nights tighten it up and makes for the most fun. Come out and if anyone needs before or after suggestions, or assistance, please don't hesitate to ask. Look forward to it. Now I hope I can make it. I do have a conflict on Sunday but wil bust hump to be there for some part. Thanks Chris.
p.s. I was wondering how the site for 18 green was selected. That picture says it all. ;)
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Good idea about the before and after suggestions. We arrive early Friday morning and depart early Sunday morning and are playing our way there. As soon as our itinerary is set, I will post if others want to join in.
Chris, one small question, do your televisions show college football in the evenings? ;D
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Chris, one small question, do your televisions show college football in the evenings? ;D
Jason,
You can count on it!
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/IMG_1885.jpg)
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Eric, thanks for the confirmation.
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I would have been there in a heartbeat if I could.
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Trust me guys, Dismal River has really gotten into my head in a very good way. I had such a great time there.
The course is really interesting and presents some really neat architecture. It stands extremely well on its own. Add the new course and you're going to have a combination that's tough to beat.
And the clubhouse... Aah, the clubhouse. Satellite TV and big leather recliners in a theater room. That's cool!
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Is there a comprehensive (and concise) breakdown of all the changes made from opening/first reviews until now? Even better, before/after photos? It's still remarkable to me what a great turnaround has occurred in the general perception of the golf course amongst GCA and I am extremely curious what was done....and also wondering if any other maligned courses can follow the same formula.
I would love to be there 9/16 but a major new life responsibility expected any day dictates that I stick close to home.
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It's still remarkable to me what a great turnaround has occurred in the general perception of the golf course amongst GCA and I am extremely curious what was done
Is it unfair to suggest the owner joining the forum and two of our more popular contributors joining Dismal River probably didn't hurt?
That said, in the recent GCA.com Post Modern ratings it came in around the mid 40s from memory which is fairly on par with the opinions I've read on here and elsewhere over the past few years.
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Scott...Frank and honest commentary, homeboy. Frank and honest...that is the mantra of this site. So, it is fair to say what you want as long as it not an outright lie (which has been done previously, but that is a whole 'nother conversation ;) )
I've said this before and, knowing me, I'll say it again :) ...
I didn't see Dismal prior to last year...so I don't know what the issue with the course were. All I know is what is there now. And to me, it is fun, thrilling, and interesting golf in a dramatic landscape. It is a difficult golf course and I think the better players will like it the most. I would imagine it would score better under the Golf Digest criteria (as I'm sure the resistance to scoring and shot values scores would be HIGH), but I do think it is under-rated across the board. I hope the new course is a great compliment to the existing course.
Furthermore, simply being there (at Dismal River) is freakin' fun and a great experience. To me, that adds a great deal to the trip and makes me want to go back again and again.
That is my 2 cents...take it or leave it.
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What's even better is the sense of the place having a real soul. It's so abstract, but it's (to me) so true.
Scott - I'm not a rater and I'm not a member, and I thought the place was fantastic. I had NO idea what to expect, and I was blown away.
I'd played Sutton Bay the week before. The staff there was great too, but there was something different and better than Sutton Bay. Sutton Bay was by no means a bad experience, but there was such a sense of community and real common vision at Dismal River. The employees were more like friends and everybody seemed to have a smile on their face.
To quote from my friend Eric Pevoto, it's like the Cheers bar - a place where everybody yells "Norm!" when you walk in because they're genuinely happy to see you.
Oh yeah - the golf course is really wonderful.
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Dan/Mac,
To be clear, I am not suggesting 40-odd Post Modern is some kind of slight, no back-handed bitchslap there. Top 50 on a field of every golf course built since John Lyon was in Kindergarten is no mean feat.
My point by listing that was that I don't think the view of the course has necessarily changed of late on GCA, but that by having the owner and two members here we are hearing more enthusiastic talk about it, in part from people who clearly joined/bought the place for a reason!
Sometimes I think folks feel that to make the point that they love a course they need to say it's one of the best ever, but I think I saw Mac gave DR 1* during the PM100 voting and let's face it - one-star on that scale is a hell of a golf course.
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Sometimes I think folks feel that to make the point that they love a course they need to say it's one of the best ever, but I think I saw Mac gave DR 1* during the PM100 voting and let's face it - one-star on that scale is a hell of a golf course.
Scott...you make a great point here. I know a lot of people are crazy in love with their course. And this love causes them to be irrational in conversations about it. I see it all the time with people I interact with, especially in my day-to-day play with non-GCA members. For instance, the type of criticism that the Atlanta Athletic Club is taking right now would make some of the members I know furious AND defensive. In fact, it happens on this site as well...all the time.
In your comment, you state that "folks feel that to make a point that they love a course they need to say it's one of the best ever." And yes, I see that on this site as well...there are certainly sacred cows that any criticism of will be met with a harsh response from known entities. But I, personally, have tried to be as objective as I possibly can be with every course I've played. And I've clearly said that Dismal is not "one of the best ever." It is not in the class of Shinnecock Hills or The Old Course. BUT I truly believe it is under-rated as a golf course and more than anything I find it FUN to play.
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I wonder if it could be a combination of changes to the golf course and, more importantly, people actually going out there and playing it as opposed to ripping it for being a Nicklaus course. Remember, Mac and Eric joined AFTER playing the golf course and before Chris joined the website. They had no incentive to fall in love with the place but did so anyways. Just look at the lashing Eric got when he said he liked it more than Ballyneal last year.
There is a certain GCA.com love that isn't reflected in the general public ratings. Same can be said for Ballyneal, Kingsley, Long Shadow, Rustic Canyon, any Doak or C&C course, etc., etc. Very few people seem willing to take that same question of whether courses are overrated on gca.com to the architects of those courses who participate on GCA.com the same way they will take it to the owner of a golf course.
But I think the most convincing evidence of the greatness of Dismal River is the views of Don Mahaffey pre and post visiting Dismal River along with the opinions of the uninterested like Dan Herrmann and John Lyon. It is easy for the gca.com crowd who hate Nicklaus designs to dismiss a course without ever playing it, especially considering its proximity to Sand Hills; I think what we are seeing now is people actually playing the golf course and then having an opinion on it.
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JC, That's a load. It's the changes that have been made that are what is pushing the course to receive favorable reviews.
Those who report on their experience, with constructive criticism, is not bashing.
As an example, there's a real true believer who once said he would never ever return to DR. Well, I played with him a few weeks a go there and he was quite impressed with the golf. A lot went into the hatred, and most of it, for some, was a specific individual. But, there have been lots of reports, both then and now, and their differences have zero to do with who the designer was.
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One can be a regular guy, join a club because he loved it and honestly believe it to be among the finest courses in the land without having to incur a letter from magazine panel czars who deem it otherwise - the #'z don't lie, right? Get in line private!! Sounds like work, not golf, to me.
I've played a few golf courses in my life, including some of those the magazines tell us are the best and I have no shame in my one and only ranking of DR in the thread Scott mentions. Remember, NGLA and Crystal Downs members - Tom Doak brought you your lofty ranking. Made it 'OK' for magazine panelists to be true to theirselves with their opinions.
I wish Dan was a member. We'd certainly have the makings of a heck of a football team from the gca ranks. Mac the former star QB and the rest of us blocking for him. Chris - let's get a game against SHGC one fine fall saturday. They can come over to our place. Our range at the clubhouse would be perfect. Matter of fact, let's light that sumbitch and have night golf at Dismal. Put in on the Underhill's bill.
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Mac,
I believe you have Shinnecock 8th and Dismal River 9th in your personal rankings. That certainly seems like you have it in the same league. Or is there a wide gap between those two spots.
I still get conflicting views about DR from those who have seen it before and after, so it's hard to know what to believe. If you trust Chris, Mac, Eric and others, then this could be one of the greatest Doak scale jumps of all time.
I guess the only way to know for sure is to see it for yourself, which makes it that much better that Chris provided this generous invite.
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JC, That's a load. It's the changes that have been made that are what is pushing the course to receive favorable reviews.
Those who report on their experience, with constructive criticism, is not bashing.
As an example, there's a real true believer who once said he would never ever return to DR. Well, I played with him a few weeks a go there and he was quite impressed with the golf. A lot went into the hatred, and most of it, for some, was a specific individual. But, there have been lots of reports, both then and now, and their differences have zero to do with who the designer was.
Adam,
How many here on GCA.com have seen it both pre and post changes to the golf course? Sure that may be the sentiment out there in Nebraska but from my understanding, the golf course has seen much more play from GCA.com people this year than it had in all the prior years to this.
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Oh, JC - I never took any lashing over my comments. Questioned, of course, but no pain was inflicted! Yes, some take me less seriously then before, but I always have been friends with Anthony and you so I was already written off as a hack by the cognoscenti!
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Jim...
That is a list of my favorites...and Dismal is one of my favorite places to be that is for sure. That is NOT a list of how I rate the architecture of each course. For instance, TPC Sawgrass on a architecture basis would be MUCH higher...but I don't like many aspects of how they do what they do down there.
And yes, Chris' invite is the perfect opportunity for people to see the course...and experience the club.
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Oh, JC - I never took any lashing over my comments. Questioned, of course, but no pain was inflicted! Yes, some take me less seriously then before, but I always have been friends with Anthony and you so I was already written off as a hack by the cognoscenti!
Death by association. My wife has similar problems ;D ;D
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Cool places attract great people and cool people make great places. Look around, are the people who are members cool?
BedBoss - I love the idea. Dan does need to sign up to anchor the trenches and Patron and Saltz too to give us some young legs on the outside. You and me working the center of the field (bunkers" range with Mac slinging the ball. Kavanaugh can play the role of Vince Lombardi...Perfect! Clayman in charge of the ground game! We may be on to something!
Remember folks, this is an invitation to come out and see for yourself. May even be a home game for Mullen HS - 8 man football is a hoot!
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I am not trying to threadjack or incite a riot, so maybe we should start a new thread....but even here it still seems like we don't have a clear picture on why the general feel around the course is so much more positive. Don't get me wrong, I love that it's happened...but it's very thought-provoking.
Adam has said that the changes to what's on the ground are the reason.
JC has suggested the lifting of the veil of ignorance
Scott has (sort of) suggested the enthusiasm of the owner and members.
Each theory put forth seems feasible to me...though only Adam's can be viewed with any sort of objectivity...which is why I asked for a comprehensive and concise account, preferably with photos, of the changes.
I can buy all three of these as theories, and I am sure that there's some shade of gray between them that explains all...it's still just remarkable to me because I hardly remember anything good said upon opening....so something great happened. And given that, is it a formula that other courses can adopt? I have never seen such a dramatic reversal of prevailing opinion.
I do very much want to go play Dismal - a good friend of mine played earlier this summer and thought highly of it...better than Rock Creek. So based on the high praise of Rock Creek, that sounds pretty good to me.
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JC, That's a load. It's the changes that have been made that are what is pushing the course to receive favorable reviews.
Those who report on their experience, with constructive criticism, is not bashing.
I agree with you 100%, Adam. The criticisms I recall came from people who played the course. Their common complaint was playability. As you point out, DR made lots of changes, almost from the start, and now the course gets lots of love. Kinda suggests the criticisms had something to them.
VERY eager to hear reports back after this event takes place.
JC, you think this site has an anti-Jack bias, and a pro-Doak bias. While I slightly agree, to me it's like preferring Mozart over Salieri. A question. Which course would you bet turns out better at DR? Jack's or Tom's?
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Wish I could make it out to Dismal--I'll definitely be there sometime again in the near future.
For those who continuously want to detract from the place: you should be the ones who make the trip out there in September. It really is a special golf course, and, from what I understand, it has changed massively from the original configuration. The current 13th green (high right, NOT low left) and the new 18th green are great fun, and they both make the golf course a lot more playable. Seriously, I don't think there is one hole out there that is even mediocre--they are all solid.
Two gripes:
1. I'd love to see the mowing lines moved out even more around the greens. The greens are so interesting because of the backboards and sideboards, and the current fairway lines do bring them into play. However, I'd like to fairway cut even farther away from the green. I'm thinking about places like the 8th green to the right. It's all there, it's done pretty well, but it could be done even better.
2. Walking paths! Yes, the course is walkable, but paths from tee to fairway would help.
Even so, the course is excellent, and a blast to play. The par threes are excellent and incredibly diverse as a set. The fives, especially 4 and 18, are solid. Great short fours at 6, 8, and 13. Great long fours at 1, 2, 7, 11, 14, and 16. Just rock solid all the way around.
CJ: I'm not big, but I'm slow. Even so, I might be able to contribute a bit as a slot receiver.
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JC, That's a load. It's the changes that have been made that are what is pushing the course to receive favorable reviews.
Those who report on their experience, with constructive criticism, is not bashing.
I agree with you 100%, Adam. The criticisms I recall came from people who played the course. Their common complaint was playability. As you point out, DR made lots of changes, almost from the start, and now the course gets lots of love. Kinda suggests the criticisms had something to them.
VERY eager to hear reports back after this event takes place.
JC, you think this site has an anti-Jack bias, and a pro-Doak bias. While I slightly agree, to me it's like preferring Mozart over Salieri. A question. Which course would you bet turns out better at DR? Jack's or Tom's?
Jim,
No clue. I bet Tom's will be ranked higher by the magazine raters but really, Dismal River will have the same problem as Bandon Dunes (multiple world class golf courses that people debate which they like the best). I think that is a good problem to have!!
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CJ, another question, will you have "201" hats made up for the outing?
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All - forgive this lengthly reply.
Ryan - here is a brief reply and summary of the changes made from the beginning:
Most important - Irrigation - finally fully calibrated and "tuned" have driven the terrific course conditioning. Getting this right is key on every course. Irrigating the native grass was a problem as this caused lost balls just off of fairways and that simply isn't fun. We have leaned the water and mow the (3-6 bands) of the native 2-3 times per season to mimic cattle grazing. The pure fine fescue fairways are fast and the water is now where and in amounts it needs to be. The layout provides a very unique experience, even for the Sandhills. Playability has been enhanced.
Experience - DRGC had at least 5 Superintendents in 5 years. Turnover was a killer. We now have continuity - a key in any organization. We have an outstanding crew with great management and we like and suport each other. I have known and worked with our Super for 11 years, Dir of Golf for 16, and Exec Chef for 16. They are all among the best in the business, the attention to detail and planning are dialed in, all of which help deliver the "experience".
Engagement of the Designer - Mr. Nicklaus and Chris Cochran were out often last year. They love Dismal River and have been and continue to be very supportive. Be it Doak or Nicklaus, an engaged designer is important.
Greens - I believe 8 greens were reworked to lessen severity of which I am not a fan. With A1/A4 and reasonably fast (not Sand Hills fast) the slopes were too much for the members. I don't enjoy greens too fast and hate them too slow. While still challenging, they are now a whole lot more fun and fair for a wide range of players who visit. The combination of speed and slope/pitch is now "just right".
Finishing Hole - Old 18 was a fun but not a finishing hole reflective of a true top course. We moved the green complex so you can see the entire hole. She is now 515 yards, uphill and into the prevailing wind. Reachable for some, still a challenge, a very fun way to finish up. One of the most beautiful holes I have seen anywhere. I can't think of a weak hole in the routing and, yes, some are very challenging. I like it that way.
Focus on fun/soul - we keep things pretty simple out here and are engaged, friendly and fun. Dismal is not pretentious or strict as we simply revere the game and the experience. Dismal isn't expensive to join - that allows a great member make-up as economic barriers are a downer. We like to think we do what we do quite well but don't have a ton of frills. We treat all members, and their guests like guests at our home. We don't much care the pedigree of your home club, we just want people who appreciate good and pure golf in a unique place.
To the comments about the past and the designer. If you look close enough, all courses have warts and challenges - many of these are what become endearing in time. Rather than focus on what was, we look at what is. Fact is, good people make for good golf and we have to play on after a bad hole. I am flattered hearing people who do visit say we are comparable to, or better than, Sand Hills, Ballyneal, Sutton Bay, Prairie Club, Awarii, Bayside, or Wild Horse, but take this with a grain of salt. I get feedback all the time of perceived shortcomings, here and elsewhere - these can be found at every course. One place has slow greens, one is too strict, one may require walking only, one may have ridiculous greens, or that conditioning is subpar or better. As we interact with people, we hear that kind of feedback all the time, as I'm sure our neighbors do - differences simply help define that particular place in the world of the game. Fact is, Dismal River is in a great neighborhood with absolutely outstanding courses nearby, not unlike Long Island, Columbus, Scotland or a host of other areas with terrific golf. It would be great if we could work together for the good of the game, each other, and the region. That is a noble goal. The "this is better than that" discussion really doesn't matter - All are very good.
fwiw, I do believe Dismal River would be considered much more openly and favorably if the neighbors weren't so very good in their own right. We are fans of and support good golf in all iterations. Differences are good and we celebrate them. We support and admire every course out here and revere the differences each offers. The game is one of gentlemen - you don't play each other - your opponent is the ball and old man par. The game would be boring if all were the same or if it were easy.
Again, you are invited to come out and form your own opinions in the "now". It should be a fun weekend for friends, new and old.
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CJ, another question, will you have "201" hats made up for the outing?
Patron - Many surrounds are so step as to make expansion problematic from a maintenance pov. I agree on the paths but this week we have man eating grasshoppers.
I'm hoping for some "BedBoss" hats. May have "201" embroidered into a corner of flags next year and will definately have some "201" caps next season - probably with bills slightly misplaced or the panels rippled! Maybe that should be the green fee? Every cart numbered 201? Every Par 3 at 201 yards? Every 200 yardage marker at 201? This could be fun!
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To hear the accolades from the GCA Dismal members as well as the other GCA`ers that have made the trip out to Nebraska puts it very high on the list of must plays. That comprises a list of pretty well traveled guys whose opinions are valued. To see the rapport that has been built with Chris Johnston along with his outreach and generosity to our ranks is enviable. If I take a trip of any distance in the near future I hope it is to Dismal as it is a part of the country I have never seen. After the Doak course is built I`m sure it`s legend will grow even larger.
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CJ, another question, will you have "201" hats made up for the outing?
Patron - Many surrounds are so step as to make expansion problematic from a maintenance pov. I agree on the paths but this week we have man eating grasshoppers.
I'm hoping for some "BedBoss" hats. May have "201" embroidered into a corner of flags next year and will definately have some "201" caps next season - probably with bills slightly misplaced or the panels rippled! Maybe that should be the green fee? Every cart numbered 201? Every Par 3 at 201 yards? Every 200 yardage marker at 201? This could be fun!
As long as the paths are under consideration, it's good by me.
I support all of the 201 ideas (except for the greens fee and par three yardage). Definitely the 200 markers at 201 instead--classic!
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I just got the "201" joke and it is really, really funny! ;D ;D
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Post #30 and the attitude presented within it, is no small reason why I became a member of Dismal.
I want to be associated with people who live their life like that. Say what you will about the course, rank it #201 modern, #1000 modern, or #1 modern. It doesn't matter to me. I want to be a member and I want to get out there an interact with the people as much as I can.
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Post #30 and the attitude presented within it, is no small reason why I became a member of Dismal.
I want to be associated with people who live their life like that. Say what you will about the course, rank it #201 modern, #1000 modern, or #1 modern. It doesn't matter to me. I want to be a member and I want to get out there an interact with the people as much as I can.
Further as a non-member Mac`s post is exactly why I can`t wait to visit.
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Chris, football? I'll bring Ryan
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Chris, football? I'll bring Ryan
Great kid - please do! But, he can't have my jersey...I'm number 201!
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I still get conflicting views about DR from those who have seen it before and after, so it's hard to know what to believe. If you trust Chris, Mac, Eric and others, then this could be one of the greatest Doak scale jumps of all time.
I guess the only way to know for sure is to see it for yourself, which makes it that much better that Chris provided this generous invite.
Jim...I've said things like this before, but I don't know if people hear it. So, like I always do...I'll mention it again. :)
You say, "if you trust Chris, Mac, Eric, and others" I really don't think it is a "trust" thing. It is a "do you like the same type of courses thing." That is why I don't find comments like, "Course X is the best" to be of much value. Rather an explanation of why course X is the best is much more valuable.
I've described what I see at Dismal, in terms of the golf course, in detail on a few threads. To summarize, I call it thrilling golf. Exciting shots, interesting putts, epic bunkers, amazing natural landscape. (Frankly, I think it is very akin to Sebonack just located in the sand hills region of Nebraska.) Furthermore, I've also tried to be quite candid on the criticisms of the course.
Why do I do that and/or why do I think these more verbose explanations are better? It give the reader a chance to see if they'd like to give the course being described a chance. That is all. What are the risk/rewards and opportunity costs of playing a course.
For instance, you. You seem to LOVE Ballyneal. In a slow day, you could probably play the course twice...and maybe three times on a normal day. Or you could go to Ballyneal and take any given day and drive to Mullen and play Dismal and drive back and/or stay the night. That risk/reward is at least 3 lost rounds at Ballyneal for you. Is that worth it for you? I don't know, but I think lots of people have given their opinion on what they've seen at Dismal and you have to then make the call.
Hopefully, everyone on this site has enough information to make their own personal utility call on the risk/reward of a trip to Dismal.
If we constantly do this on all courses we discuss, then we should have a great database of information on courses for people to pick and choose what fits they tastes.
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Deleted.
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I'd like to attend but my 2 alma maters are playing on the 17th here in Philly and I ordered tix months ago:
(http://www.vectorlogo.org/logo/gif/p/20628__penn_state_lions.gif) v. (http://bluexu.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/logo-temple-university-150x150.gif)
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Steve, my friend - You'd really love it out there. The "home theater" has 16 huge leather recliners for you to enjoy the Owls game!
Tim - Laura and I drove to Mullen from Philly. Many think the Great Plains are boring, but we loved the trip. From Phily to South Bend (toured Notre Dame where my nephew starts this year, to Chicago, Madison, and Sioux Falls (a really cool town) to Pierre (Sutton Bay) to Badlands NP to Mt Rushmore to the Black Hills to Wind Cave NP to Custer State Park (SD) to Mullen and back home.
PS - Chris has posted a very cool Notre Dame "Play Like A Champion Today" sign on the mile-long path from the clubhouse/lodges to the golf course. Chris' son is a Golden Domer, and like his dad, is pure class.
Our next great road trip is up to Cape Breton Island for Cabot Links, Highlands Links, and the Cabot Trail, but Mullen has really gotten into my soul.
As an example of the great people out there... The day after DR, we spent a day/night at Sand Hills. The "starter" there is the coach of the Mullen HS football team, and has been for 30 years. We must've talked football for an hour on Ben's porch with our forecaddie who played for the school's rival. Met his wife at dinner - she stopped by our table and told us how much Coach enjoyed our talk.
And then, we had all the employees in the clubhouse really working to get us up to Mullen itself for the fireworks.
Remember, SH and DR are essentially next door neighbors, and they both have a similar mindset. I sure as heck didn't sense anybody looking down their nose like you can get at some resorts.
Like I said, it's all about "you're family" out there. One can't put a price on that type of joyful vibe.
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Dan.
Penn State is my football alma mater and Temple is my hoops alma mater. I'm having my entourage at the game so this trip will have to wait.
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Chris,
Thanks for the very generous offer... I'd love to get out that way but September and October are out for me with my crazy work schedule coming up.
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I was the last person to join Dismal before Chris and his group purchased the place. I had read every word ever posted on this site or anywhere else I could find on the internet. I joined after playing six holes at twilight on a day after the course had closed for the season. I mean really, despite being accused of being an ubercontrarian whose sanity is often in question, I doubt if I would have joined Dismal if the press was as bad as many think. As is normal with this site and the internet in general most commentary is petty in nature. The simple fact of the matter is and will always be that Dismal is not Sand Hills. 90% of the negative comments centered on that fact.
First off and importantly I was not asked to join Sand Hills so that was not an option for me. But I did have an opportunity to join a course that shares much with Sand Hills simply because of the close proximity. Today it occurred to me that is like being offered Jay Lo without the ass. That isn't all that bad even if some of your internet buds don't like her music.
I think I have said before on this site that I have an unhealthy desire to win at everything I do. One of the key factors in any game is to identify the players. Sand Hills is not in our league as they have a full and continuous membership. Ballyneal is a far different course in a different land formation much closer to a metropolitan area which enables them to charge fees few can afford. We are not in competition with Ballyneal in any facet of any part of the game or potential members. What many need to learn is that what is good for Dismal is good for Ballyneal which is even good for Sand Hills. Those of us who love each course should embrace each others love for the game instead of questioning what is a Doak 8. News flash....If any of these courses aren't worth driving 100 miles to see there ain't going to be much golf going on at all.
Interestingly enough I was lucky enough to choose an outing at The Prairie Club with my winnings from the Ben Cox raffle. I will play there for the first time in a few weeks. I hope to love it and return again in the future even though it is a bit out of the way given Awarii, Wild Horse, Bayside and Ballyneal fit my Omaha to Denver connections much better. Funny isn't it how each of the mentioned courses, including Sand Hills, has benefited from my membership at Dismal.
Hell, even the North Platte Hospital and ambulance service has gotten a taste.
I still remember telling Mac how I felt sorry for him having to go home and assign a number to Sand Hills and Dismal after our life changing trip to the region. I don't know what number he gave Sand Hills but he joined Dismal, and Eric joined Dismal. Wow, I can't explain how strange that made me feel having two more people see what I saw. Eric and Mac can play anywhere in the country they choose anytime they want and they chose to join the same course that I did after just one visit. I don't know why any of you would need any more proof than that that Dismal is special. It has shaken my ubercontrarian soul to my bones. I am tempted to see if it is just me and join Awarii....Nah.
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What many need to learn is that what is good for Dismal is good for Ballyneal which is even good for Sand Hills.
Thank you for that observation. If I didn't share the same view, I would not be starting work out there in ten days' time.
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Nice post, John. I'll always appreciate your extending the invitation last summer -- it made all the difference in my golfing life. And to think we were supposed to bring Anthony along on that trip as well!
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With the new course underway, I wanted to remind all GCA'ers of the Sept 16-18 outing at Dismal River - we still have space. Come on out to experience a great course and tour Tom's newest creation.
Our own Don Mahaffey will be on site to sign autographs and pose for photos.
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Love to come, Chris, got something else going on. I missed the thread the first time around. If you have a list for lazy gca readers/posters, put me on it. I'd love to come sometime.
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Love to come, Chris, got something else going on. I missed the thread the first time around. If you have a list for lazy gca readers/posters, put me on it. I'd love to come sometime.
+1
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I was the last person to join Dismal before Chris and his group purchased the place. I had read every word ever posted on this site or anywhere else I could find on the internet. I joined after playing six holes at twilight on a day after the course had closed for the season. I mean really, despite being accused of being an ubercontrarian whose sanity is often in question, I doubt if I would have joined Dismal if the press was as bad as many think. As is normal with this site and the internet in general most commentary is petty in nature. The simple fact of the matter is and will always be that Dismal is not Sand Hills. 90% of the negative comments centered on that fact.
First off and importantly I was not asked to join Sand Hills so that was not an option for me. But I did have an opportunity to join a course that shares much with Sand Hills simply because of the close proximity. Today it occurred to me that is like being offered Jay Lo without the ass. That isn't all that bad even if some of your internet buds don't like her music.
I think I have said before on this site that I have an unhealthy desire to win at everything I do. One of the key factors in any game is to identify the players. Sand Hills is not in our league as they have a full and continuous membership. Ballyneal is a far different course in a different land formation much closer to a metropolitan area which enables them to charge fees few can afford. We are not in competition with Ballyneal in any facet of any part of the game or potential members. What many need to learn is that what is good for Dismal is good for Ballyneal which is even good for Sand Hills. Those of us who love each course should embrace each others love for the game instead of questioning what is a Doak 8. News flash....If any of these courses aren't worth driving 100 miles to see there ain't going to be much golf going on at all.
Interestingly enough I was lucky enough to choose an outing at The Prairie Club with my winnings from the Ben Cox raffle. I will play there for the first time in a few weeks. I hope to love it and return again in the future even though it is a bit out of the way given Awarii, Wild Horse, Bayside and Ballyneal fit my Omaha to Denver connections much better. Funny isn't it how each of the mentioned courses, including Sand Hills, has benefited from my membership at Dismal.
Hell, even the North Platte Hospital and ambulance service has gotten a taste.
I still remember telling Mac how I felt sorry for him having to go home and assign a number to Sand Hills and Dismal after our life changing trip to the region. I don't know what number he gave Sand Hills but he joined Dismal, and Eric joined Dismal. Wow, I can't explain how strange that made me feel having two more people see what I saw. Eric and Mac can play anywhere in the country they choose anytime they want and they chose to join the same course that I did after just one visit. I don't know why any of you would need any more proof than that that Dismal is special. It has shaken my ubercontrarian soul to my bones. I am tempted to see if it is just me and join Awarii....Nah.
John - that's probably the best and most thoughtful post of yours I have read. Thanks. Dismal sounds like a special place.
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Am still out here in Nebraska, having revisited Dismal River Monday -- my third time there. Then went on yesterday to Red Cloud in the southeast corner of the state, where I paid homage to the great Nebraska prairie writer Willa Cather, whose work has more to say about the spirit of golf land out here than anyone else writing today.
My sense of Dismal River has evolved. It is more interesting course than I first thought, still hard and still extreme in spots but has also been softened in places and made to fit the land better. Kudos to Chris Johnston and his team for attending to these areas.
As for the new course that Doak, Mahaffey and Slawnick are building, it is a stunner, mainly because it starts as a Sand Hills-prairie layout and gradually gets more compelling and varied as it works its way across the entrance road down, extends out under that massive hill (Horseshoe and Little Horseshoe) and wends along the banks of the Dismal River for the last three holes. The tee sites are among the most natural and most appealing I have ever seen, and the green settings are for the most part all there, as are the bunkers, which I swear you can see in the land as little hollows of grassed depressions.
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One of the most interesting things out there is using salt licks to try to uncover natural bunkering. Just lay out a salt lick and let the cattle have at it.
From what I saw, it was working quite well.
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I think it's about time we get Willie out there...
(http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/rednorman/5509fad4.jpg)
DISMAL
Whiskey River take my mind,
don't let her memory torture me...
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Or, "On the road again".
Ryan Simper,
I have tried to chronicle the evolution with each of the visits I have made over the last four years. Sorry no pictures, but, perhaps a search of the archives will yield the old posts.?
Chris has done a good job in his synopsis, but to me, it felt like it was more than what he described. Maybe because it was over four years? Not to discount the green's evolutions, but the management of the surrounds is likely the biggest key to one of golf's greatest aspects, recovery.
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John,
Great post and so from the heart, rather than some of your posts that perhaps are not quite as...thoughtful..Hard to argue with anything you rote, which again is an anomoly for your posts ;D
Dismal is a beautiful place, marvelous surroundings in a breathtaking part of this country...food is superb, lodging to match and gold to be totally enjoyed...good choice to set up a second 'home"
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I think it's about time we get Willie out there...
I'll be in Luckenbach and Fredericksburg the day before I fly up in a couple weeks. I'll just stop by and ask if he wants to come. I'll be better on a rake than him, though I think his specialty will be the grass.
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Do stop and see him, Cap'n. I had Whiskey River playing on my iPod a lot when I was out there last month and his playing it live on the back porch at Dismal is a recurring dream. I told Mac and John about it yesterday in hopes of infecting them with the idea. And Clayman says he's going to a poker tourney riding in Willie's old tour bus! Maybe it's destiny? Chris, whattaya think about the Red Headed Stranger/The Outlaw/Dr. Booger at Dismal?
DISMAL
I'm drowning in a Whiskey River...
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Would be great nighttime entertainment for the 5th on 4th next summer. I can't wait to take the trophy home!!
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I thought we were playing together next year? No way you're going to take the trophy home. Too much red meat and beer. You'll have gout all weekend and I certainly can't carry us.
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You assume I'm not presently inflicted with nor accustomed to playing with the disease of kings.
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Wish I could be there, but hope to make DR next year.
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Not sure we can have WN out...heard he uses a belly putter.
Update: 1-1/2 greens are basically shaped waiting for the Chef to arrive in less than an hour. The Guinness and Peroni shall be flowing.
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Chris,
You whet the appetite for fine GCA. Nicely done!