Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Steve_ Shaffer on July 31, 2011, 04:06:32 PM
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August Special
EVERY Weds in August !
ONLY! $39.00
includes golf at the spectacular Inniscrone Golf Club,
a Hot Dog and a soft drink, plus a sleeve of golf balls (our choice)
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If anyone hasn't been to Inniscrone, get there in August! It is more than worth the 39 bucks. In fact, it might be the best value among the Philly public courses.
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I thought it was in Ireland!
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Bill,
Come to Philly and I'll give you my hot dog at Inniscrone!
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I thought it was in Ireland!
That's Enniscrone! Funny, though, because I get that same response from a bunch of people. I like the name, but maybe it's not good if you always get confused with another course on the other side of planet.
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I guess "hot dog" should have been a clue! ;D
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I didn't get to play Inniscronne last month, how would you guys compare it to Glen Mills?
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Sam,
Both are very good courses and each of them has at least 2 quirky holes. The 10th at Inniscrone leads the quirky contest. I'd split 5-5 out 10 plays on each course.
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Sam,
Both are very good courses and each of them has at least 2 quirky holes. The 10th at Inniscrone leads the quirky contest. I'd split 5-5 out 10 plays on each course.
I found Glen Mills to have some very quirky holes, I enjoyed the round, the course looks like it's been around much longer than it really has.
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Wow! What a deal. I wonder why?
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Wow! What a deal. I wonder why?
I was waiting for the infamous Jim Coleman to respond to this thread! ;D ;D How do you think Hanse's classic at Inniscrone compares to Rolling Green (which I loved, btw) ;)
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Wow! What a deal. I wonder why?
Jim Coleman,
You have nothing to add to this thread. If you don't like Inniscrone, or it doesn't suit your game, keep it to yourself.
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Wow! What a deal. I wonder why?
Because the Van Sickels are ambassadors of the game.
Good contribution Jim, nice to see your insight.
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Wow! What a deal. I wonder why?
Because the Van Sickels are ambassadors of the game.
Good contribution Jim, nice to see your insight.
I seem to remember all knowing and all seeing Jim Coleman pronouncing on this site repeatedly that the course should never have been built.
I wonder if he might change his mind if he actually went out there now to see the course pretty busy with a very non country club crowd just happy as clams to have a nice muni, reasonably priced, with the Van Sickel's treating everyone like a member of their family.
Jim, here is where you can weigh in and indicate perhaps you're miffed about something (like having to travel that distance to 'Scrone as one of the courses to play when your home course chose to gas their greens years ago?).
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I suppose I owe an apology to the Inniscrone crowd. I'm not a fan of the course, as I've written before. But what most annoyed me about it was that it was built as an upscale, top of the line club, with pretensions of being included among Philadelphia's elite courses. As such, it failed, and it should have failed. It's supporters here undoubtedly disagree with me, and that's fine. As an inexpensive muni, I agree that it is a bargain and worth the trip. It's a matter of expectations, I suppose.
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John
I haven't been to Inniscrone for some time but by and large I like the course and with a few exceptions find it aesthetically pleasing. At this price point it is a terrific value.
Rolling Green vs. Inniscrone though? Apples and oranges.
I think a good comparison could be made between Inniscrone and Beechtree (NLE). Beechtree wins that won primarily due to the site but like Inniscrone provided some very good architecture accessible by the public.
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John
I haven't been to Inniscrone for some time but by and large I like the course and with a few exceptions find it aesthetically pleasing. At this price point it is a terrific value.
Rolling Green vs. Inniscrone though? Apples and oranges.
I think a good comparison could be made between Inniscrone and Beechtree (NLE). Beechtree wins that won primarily due to the site but like Inniscrone provided some very good architecture accessible by the public.
Rory,
My RG-Inniscrone comparison was purely tongue in cheek. Inniscrone compares very well to other modern courses in Philly, such as French Creek, Lederach, and Morgan Hill. The common theme on these courses? Great architecture, limited by the common problems of a modern site: housing, roads, and wetlands. Each of these four is definitely worth seeing, and I would much rather play a Hanse or KBM than the typical cookie-cutter modern fare.
Jim C: Have you played Inniscrone since it changed to a public, municipal layout? From my understanding, the private version of Inniscrone featured long and penal rough, whereas the version I saw in April had no such rough and was very playable. We played in 3:15 as a twosome, walking, behind a fivesome in carts. I'm not sure if I've had many better public golf experiences.
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I'm available on Weds Aug 17. Let's see if we can do something here then. Their hot dogs on the grill are very good. Take a day off from work or whatever.
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No, I have not been there in a few years. I suspect it does compare to Morgan Hill, Lederach, etc. The problem for me is, it was built to compare with the likes of Stonewall, Applebrook, and Fieldstone. As such, it couldn't hold a candle. I realize I'm repeating myself, and I guess I should swear never to comment on Inniscrone again. It should be enjoyed for what it is, not what it aspired to be.
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Most courses built in Inniscrone's era aspired to be the same thing. How many marketing slogans have you read with those same (or greater) aspirations? The difference is Inniscrone is not that animal anymore. It is now a cheap daily-fee course run by a well-respected golf family. It has probably been softened a little in the right spots, and now it has found its niche as a public course with some interesting architecture. The same can't be said for the vast majority of those "high aspiration" facilities.
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John
My exposure to public access golf in the Delaware Valley is limited but I can believe that Inniscrone is one of the better options.
While portions of Inniscrone may be on par with other moderns in the region the whole does not. Your comment re the site is spot on but I don't quite agree on the French Creek comparison. The site at Inniscrone really impacts the course as a whole. Not so at French Creek. Certainly the multi parcel site at French Creek probably presented a routing challenge but on the whole I don't think it negatively impacts the course. The times that I have been fortunate to play French creek I have come away impressed. The multi parcel routing is an afterthought because each hole is so entertaining. 8 may be the only hole where the transitionfrom parcel to parcel is notable. This is a tesatament to Gil Hanse. Inniscrone provides a very enjoyable day of golf but on balance the site makes the comparison impossible.
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Rory,
I think the routing at French Creek does suffer from the constraints of housing and wetlands. There are several holes with large distances between tees and greens (3 to 4, 8 to 9, 13 to 14, 15 to 16). As you point out, Hanse is very clever with the architecture out there, and the course maintains a good flow throughout the round. However, the site makes the course very difficult to walk, and I found Inniscrone a much easier walk throughout the round. The routing at French Creek may not make a difference to most people, but it does make a difference, albeit minor, to me.
The comparison between Inniscrone and French Creek is tough in a different way. The styles of the two courses are dramatically different, especially considering they were built by the same architect. French Creek uses large, bold bunkering and some wild greens, whereas Inniscrone is much more understated, with small greens that tend to have one dominant contour and bunkers that are used sparingly. There is a lot to love about both courses, and, in the end, I would place the two right next to each other in terms of quality. Inniscrone's bad holes are worse, no doubt about that. Inniscrone makes up for it with some standout holes and a rugged boldness that I wish I saw in more layouts.
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Good meeting you a couple of weeks ago JNC. (I prefer JNC to John.) The fact that you survived 5 hours with Malone is a testament to your mental toughness.
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I agree that French Creek could be a tough walk but the only hole where I feel like the site won vs. the hole is 8. Its not a bad hole but its location on the property makes it stand out vs. the others.
Its a shame that you never got to play Beechtree. It really was a terrific example of fun and architecturally interesting public access golf.
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Rory - Funny you mention 8 as the one where the site won. I'd say it was #3 (and Gil kinda alluded that he felt the same way). #3 is just one of those holes that sometimes needs to be built to get from point A to point B. But I certainly do know where you're coming from.
It was pretty cool when the beavers dammed French Creek itself, but the damage to our neighbor's property was too great, so down the dams came.
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Dan
Interesting. I won't contradict the architect when he discusses his creation but I never got that feeling about three. Yes, it is a difficult shot over wetland but its near 2 green and is the type of hole that one could expect on that parcel. In fact the way the green is benched in there constitutes a successful outcome to the question of traversing from two green to the other side of the road. I quite like the hole.
I like 8 too. Especially the green. You have a great problem at FC when we are splitting hairs like this.
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It wasn't until recently that Google got an aerial of that region so that I could build a routing diagram like normal. But I now have one for French Creek:
(http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/frenchcreek/routing.jpg)
And here is a photo album with 200+ pics (from a couple of different visits to FC due to the kind invites of Dan and his bride!):
http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/french_creek/
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Inniscrone is not solely Gil Hanse's routing. I think it's safe to say the vast vast majority of the routing is by Stephen Kay.
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of course, Mr. Bill Kittleman and Jim Wagner are key partners too.
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Last chance. Anyone interested? Anyone...Anyone...
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Last chance. Anyone interested? Anyone...Anyone...
What time?