Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Mark Saltzman on July 18, 2011, 01:35:29 PM
-
Wine Valley was one of the final golf courses I played on my 23 day trip that included almost 40 rounds of golf. Wine Valley is certainly in my top 5 and would rank somewhere between a 7.5 and an 8.5 on the Doak scale. This course must be seen, even if it requires a fair bit of travel (4 hours driving on my part).
To see my other photo tours completed thus far from this trip:
Sanctuary, CO: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48714.0.html
Prairie Club (Dunes), NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48734.0.html
Awarii Dunes, NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48784.0.html
Wild Horse, NE: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48807.0.html
Golf Club at Bear Dance, CO: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48903.0.html
Coeur D'Alene Resort, ID: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48906.0.html
What I liked:
1) Greens - Interesting shaping and contouring. None are too flat and none too extreme.
2) Half-shot penalties. Lost balls will be rare at WV. If you want to make birdies you must challenge the hazards. But, being out of place off the tee still has the possibility of making par. The greens have several large run-offs. Missing the green will mean a difficult but interesting up-and-down opportunity where a great shot can save a par, but one should not make worse than bogey. I can see many bogey golfers having some of their best rounds at WV, but scratch golfers not even coming close to par.
3) Undulations in chipping areas - No doubt shots from a chipping area confound many golfers. But most eventually learn that putter is the play. BUT, there are humps and bumps in the run-offs that make these somewhat simple putts much more interesting.
4) Sideboards and flattened side boards - There are plenty of sideboards and backboards at WV that give the creative golfer more than option for a given shot. One thing I really liked was that the sideboards got very flat just off the green. This means you can't just aim somewhere between the pin and the sideboard and be sure of the kick down to the hole. Furthermore, shots aimed at the pin and hit slightly off-line will not garner the advantage of the sideboard. The player must choose - aim at the hole or aim at the sideboard.
5) Conditioning - really F&F. Pretty much perfect, in my opinion. Fairways were running, balls were bouncing, greens were fast but manageable.
6) Routing is constantly changing directions (nowhere more obviously than holes 1-2), meaning strong winds are kept in check
Things I didn't like:
1) The ponds on the three holes on the front nine felt contrived, out of place and of little interest.
2) The split fairway par-5 made little sense to me.
On to the tour...
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090451.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090452.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/scorecard.jpg)
-
Hole 1: Par 4, 405 Yards - Yardages will be from the 2nd from back Black tees
If you're like me, you will have a pretty good idea you are about to play a course you will really like, just by standing on the 1st tee. Lots of width. Lots of fairway undulation. And a couple of choices off the tee.
Most will be looking to avoid the bunker on the right and aim at the bunker on the left some 280 yards from the tee.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090453.jpg)
Tee shots that lay back short of the right bunker will face a 175 yard approach from a poor angle that is very awkward looking with the hill partially blocking the view of the green
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090454.jpg)
Tee shots down the middle or left have a great look at the green and can take full advantage of the undulations short and left of the green that will funnel the ball down into the centre of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090455.jpg)
Meanwhile, those that are able to carry the bunker on the right (about 260 yards) are rewarded with a very significant downslope that should bring the ball some 50-100 yards short of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090456.jpg)
A look at the undulations short of the green (notice one cannot even see the bunker short of the green from the left):
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090457.jpg)
From short and right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090459a.jpg)
Even with the camera flattening the undulations, it is clear that the green has some pretty decent movement.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090458.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090459.jpg)
-
Hole 2: Par 4, 360 Yards
A tee shot anywhere up the middle will serve just fine, but ideally one will make a choice off the tee based on the pin location (which is in full view). Left pins should challenge the right bunkers and right pins should challenge the left tall grass. The one really big no-no is a tee shot on the right side of the fairway to a right pin.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090460.jpg)
The approach from the right to a right pin is nasty. The bunker blocks the full view of the green and the pin looks like it is floating on a tiny sliver of green. And that's not the most difficult part.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090462.jpg)
The view from the left to a right pin is more manageable.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090463.jpg)
The worst part is the mounding short of the green. Playing uphill, downwind and firm, one really want to land the ball short of the green, but two large undulations make that impossible. Anything landing short will kick well right into a deep collection area. Shots from the collection area are very difficult to get close, especially if you are playing diagonally back over the mounding.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090465.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090466.jpg)
From left of green
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090464.jpg)
From behind
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090467.jpg)
-
Thanks Mark - I'll be following along closely. I have high regard for Wine Valley also and really hope Dan gets a lot more chances to build courses. WV and Bandon Crossings are really great GCA efforts.
I played WV with Dan, and he indicated a bunch of his inspiration came from playing the sandbelt courses on the Australian Tour many years ago.
-
That dip in the green really is quite significant, more than the picture alludes to.
The good part is, there is no trouble long, so erring on that side is much better than coming up short and rolling back down the bank.
-
Hole 3: Par 5, 535 Yards
The aforementioned split-fairway par 5. From the tee it is not clear that there is a split fairway as the top portion is the only side really in view.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090468.jpg)
From the start of the fairway the split-fairway is more apparent.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090469.jpg)
The right (upper) side of the split provides a large downslope that will allow some players to have a crack at the green in two. But, the line to the green is cleverly guarded by two fairway bunkers. There is a simple lay-up available with plenty of width to the right.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090470.jpg)
The left (lower) side of the split gives a shorter(?) line into the green but requires a second shot that MUST carry the water and deal with the aforementioned fairway bunkers. I suppose if you really want to go for the green in two there is a clearer line from the left, but the layup is much more difficult, playing diagonally along the hazards. I don't think too many players will use this side of the split on purpose.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090471.jpg)
The farther right the lay-up the more difficult the approach over a green that is slightly diagonal to the fairway. More right means greater chance of finding the massive run-off right of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090472.jpg)
A layup farther left leaves an easier approach, looking down the throat of the green, but the lay-up would have to contend with the bunkers/water to get to this position.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090473.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090474.jpg)
A look from down in the run-off - not a good spot to be. Also notice the undulations in the slopes running up to the green. These really make this shot tricky. Often the smartest play is to play away from them and take your medicine as they have a knack for slowing down your ball and throwing it off-line such that the ball will return to the depths of the run-off.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090475.jpg)
-
Mark,
Thanks for all these photo tours. They are some of the most in-depth views of any courses I've seen on here.
Wine Valley looks fantastic, so I just checked out their site. 70 bucks weekday in peak season. Wow! Also I LOVE that their junior rate extends to age 23, which I have never seen before but should absolutely be done elsewhere (I'm probably biased on that one).
-
Mark,
Thanks for all these photo tours. They are some of the most in-depth views of any courses I've seen on here.
Wine Valley looks fantastic, so I just checked out their site. 70 bucks weekday in peak season. Wow! Also I LOVE that their junior rate extends to age 23, which I have never seen before but should absolutely be done elsewhere (I'm probably biased on that one).
Their off season rates are even better. My friend and I went here in March and played 45 holes total for only $80 each...
That was beyond a sweet deal!
-
I played 36 holes one day here last summer in September. I HAD A BLAST. IMO, several holes gave me sort of a Ballyneal feel. This course needs to get more recognition, give it time. If this course was in LA or any place with a population it would be getting rave reviews. This was one of the most fun golf courses I have played. Some many golf shots to be played out there. It would be in the top 4 in Washington with Chambers, Aldarra, and Tumble. Lets put it this way, if this course was in the sandhills of colorado or nebraska, it would be able to hold its own. You can definitely see some of Kye Goalbys work out there around the greens with all the sideboards. Great hole after great hole. I forgot to bring my camera so I am really looking forward to this tour to refresh my memory.
Hole 7 is a marvelous par 5, and then a hole on the back somewhere between 12 to 15 is a great long dogleg right par 4 with a skyline green, another great hole.
-
Really enjoying this photo tour as Mark is providing great perspective on the playing strategies.
On the third I don't see why you need the bunkers on the left to protect the second shot. You already have the lake there to steer people toward the apparently safer play.
-
Mark,
The course's website shows #3 as not so much a split fairway as a single fairway, with apparently two distinct levels, and two centerline bunkers.
I understand your comments as to not necessarily thinking that playing to one side or the other makes more sense from a strategic point of view, but to me it seems like one big fairway with center hazards is a nice option, especially on a hole where many will be swinging out of their shoes on the tee. It seems less confusing than an actual split fairway hole where you so often end up wondering why they even bothered to build the other fairway.
Your thoughts? How wide is the "upper" portion of the fairway? Would it be a fair driving challenge if the upper portion was the only fairway?
-
Mark, thanks for posting all of these photo tours. Great stuff.
What was your overall view of Wine Valley? My wife and I are planning on a quick 5-day trip through Washington next month, hooking up with Richard Choi at Chambers Bay, and then I was thinking perhaps we should swing east to Walla Walla and check out WV.
Did you hit the Wilderness Club (Eureka, Montana) in your travels? Curious about that one too.
Jim
-
Mark,
Well written. I've played many of the greast coursesand Wine Valley is in my top 10 because of its playability. The best bunkerd course I can think of. This course should get more props on this site and nationally. Thanks for the work you put into this thread.
Anthony
-
Really enjoying this photo tour as Mark is providing great perspective on the playing strategies.
On the third I don't see why you need the bunkers on the left to protect the second shot. You already have the lake there to steer people toward the apparently safer play.
Steve,
I wondered about those bunkers too. Perhaps they are further enforcement that the player should be playing his tee shot on the right side of the fairway? From the left, the player that wants to lay-up will have to carry both the lake and the bunkers. From the right, I really doubt a player will challenge the water for a better angle into the green. Most that do, will do so by accident and these bunkers would save them from a ball in the water. Just a thought.
Matthew,
You are correct the fairway on three is really a single fairway with two centerline bunkers, but the right and left are separated by quite a bit of elevation so to me it played like a split fairway.
The upper portion is very wide. At many courses it would be 10s of yards wider than the widest fairway. Like many split fairways, this hole left me wondering what the lower portion of the fairway is for. Though as I think more about it, the most likely way to hit the green in two would have to be from the left. The throat of the green is open from the left, though the player must carry the lake. From the right, the aforementioned bunkers + the undulations short/right of the green mean it is extremely difficult to hit the green in two. Nonetheless, given the risk/reward for taking on the green in two from the left vs. knocking it just short of the green in two from the right, I seriously doubt you would ever see a good player take the left route on purpose.
Jim,
Overall I thought Wine Valley was fantastic. I had very high expectations when I played WV, but they were met and exceeded easily. The course played firmer than any other course on my trip, which included Sand Hills, Rock Creek and Ballyneal. I can tell it's about a 5 hour drive from Chambers to WV through a mix of pretty and boring terrain.
I didn't get to the Wilderness Club. I did really enjoy Palouse Ridge, though, which is only a couple hours from WV. Hope that helps.
Peter,
I obviously haven't seen everything in the state, but from what I saw I would rank the courses as follows:
1) Chambers Bay
2) Wine Valley
3) Alderra
4) Tumble Creek
5) Palouse
6) Sahalee
-
Peter,
I obviously haven't seen everything in the state, but from what I saw I would rank the courses as follows:
1) Chambers Bay
2) Wine Valley
3) Alderra
4) Tumble Creek
5) Palouse
6) Sahalee
You didn't miss much if these were the 6 that you played. It the same order as I would have them as well, although I haven't played Wine Valley yet.
-
Can't believe this thread was pushed off the first page. Mark must be busy recuperating from his trip. ;)
In my two plays at Wine Valley, I first went left of the bunker on 3. Found that was not a good idea, so went right the second time to earn a win on the hole from Kalen. With knowledge of the course, I assume you can think the bunker as guarding the inside of the proper line. The rest of the fairway left of the bunker is to allow inconsistent lefties to slice left with recovery still available.
-
Mark,
Thanks for the perspective. It can be tough to get a sense of the full scale just via a photo tour so I was really wondering how big that right side of the fairway is.
-
A) Does the fairway left on #3 take you into the water, or is it a safe landing? Not talking about a beastly, running hook, but a normally delivered tee ball;
B) Mark snuck into and out of western New York without my chancing to meet for a swing or a drink; won't happen again!
C) I'm not averse to the double warning hazard (the bunkers and the lake). Tilly did it on #8 at Bethpage Red (trees followed by bunker) so it has its place for those who don't listen well the first time.
-
A) Does the fairway left on #3 take you into the water, or is it a safe landing? Not talking about a beastly, running hook, but a normally delivered tee ball?
It's pretty much out of reach.
I too don't think there is enough motivation for going left, all things considered.
Perhaps if the tee box was moved up a little and more to the left, giving a shorter route to the left side of the split, there would be more intrigue in taking that chance.
As it is now, I just don't see any advantage in going over there.
-
The more I think about it, the more I agree with Mark. There really is no real reason to go left over there on purpose because whether you are going for the green or just laying up, it makes either one of those shots more difficult. That being said, there is plenty of room out to the right as well and certainly in every round I've played there, I've always aimed to the right of the bunkers.
The only thing I can think of is, its a safe haven for a slicing leftie or a rightie who overcooks a draw and hooks it over there.
I wish we had an aerial of the hole, but the course is still too new and Bing and Google aren't updated yet.
-
Counterpoint.
First, I can't reach the green in two.
But I go left of the bunker because I can't carry the ball past the kickplate right of the central bunker. It adds about 30 yards to my drive. By driving to the left and hitting the second ball right I counterbalance the right to left slope of the fairway, taking the water out of play. A medium drive to the right leaves a shot that can bound left and run into the lake.
-
Counterpoint.
First, I can't reach the green in two.
But I go left of the bunker because I can't carry the ball past the kickplate right of the central bunker. It adds about 30 yards to my drive. By driving to the left and hitting the second ball right I counterbalance the right to left slope of the fairway, taking the water out of play. A medium drive to the right leaves a shot that can bound left and run into the lake.
Pete,
I'm a little confused. It sounds like you would rather play over the water with your layup shot instead of playing away from it on all 3 shots? There is a ton of room to the right, even on the layup shot from a drive hit to the right and one doesn't need to go anywhere near the water unless the pin is on the left of the green.
-
Counterpoint.
First, I can't reach the green in two.
But I go left of the bunker because I can't carry the ball past the kickplate right of the central bunker. It adds about 30 yards to my drive. By driving to the left and hitting the second ball right I counterbalance the right to left slope of the fairway, taking the water out of play. A medium drive to the right leaves a shot that can bound left and run into the lake.
Pete,
I'm a little confused. It sounds like you would rather play over the water with your layup shot instead of playing away from it on all 3 shots? There is a ton of room to the right, even on the layup shot from a drive hit to the right and one doesn't need to go anywhere near the water unless the pin is on the left of the green.
Kalen,
Yes, you are confused. My ball never goes over water or anywhere near it. My first shot is left of the central bunker and gains about 30 yds from hitting a speed slot. My second is aimed at the right edge of the fairway and never challenges the water. I am usually left with a wedge or 9 iron in the right 1/3 of the fairway.
Imagine a two yacht race with me twice tacking away from trouble and approaching the final buoy from downwind. The worst place off the tee is short right, the second worst is in the central bunker. I avoid them, you don't. The worst place for the 2nd shot is in the water. Coming from the right the lake is more in play because of the cant of the fairway. You have that trouble, I don't.
-
Hole 4: Par 4, 350 Yards
You really want to be right of the centerline bunker off the tee. At WV, the ability to land the ball short is important given the firm conditions and being forced to carry the bunker from the left is bad news.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090476.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090477.jpg)
Interestingly, there is a not so insignificant downslope on the left side of the fairway into the fairway bunkers. Shots that are intended to be played short of this bunker but are pulled (and hit just a bit longer) will certainly be penalized.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090478.jpg)
One of the most undulating greens on the course with large slopes/kickers to the right of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090479.jpg)
BUT, anyone getting just a bit too aggressive and going long is pretty much dead...
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090481.jpg)
-
Hole 5: Par 4, 460 Yards
A long par 4 that plays nowhere near its yardage. Downhill and downwind, this is really no more than driver and a mid or short iron. The ideal angle is from the left, which requires the player to challenge the 'sand river.' This was one of my favorite holes at WV.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090482.jpg)
But, the fairway has a very significant slope from right to left. A player able to sling a draw off the slope can watch his ball roll forever, while a player bailing out right can watch his cut kick back toward the centre. The slope is not severe enough, however, to get the ball all the way to the left side of the fairway for the best angle into the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090483.jpg)
A really, really good approach. Any shot hit at the right 5 feet of the green will kick into the sand river...
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090484.jpg)
There is a massive kicker short/left of the green that will feed the ball all the way to the centre of the green...
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090485.jpg)
But, the kicker ends and gives way to another deep run-off. I loved this feature. Shots played at the green but pulled will carry the kicker and find the collection area. Only shots that intentionally use the slope will get its benefit.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090486.jpg)
A look from behind shows a few significant humps in the green. Lots of movement for a long par 4. If this hole played into the wind it could be a beast.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090487.jpg)
-
Mark,
You guessed it.
Normally 5 plays into the prevailing wind. If you had a tailwind on 5 consider yourself lucky because in my 3 playings i either had no wind or a wind into the face. And it is indeed a beast...best score I've taken here is a bogey 5.
I really love the sand river feature on this hole and others...its very cool
-
Hole 6: Par 3, 180 Yards
A solid, straightforward nader-ish par 3 with a kicker short-left and bunkers short-right and long.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090488.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090489.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090490.jpg)
Once again, the kicker is not quite as simple as it looks. I aimed two balls at the left fringe figuring a shot that was pulled or pushed a bit would work just fine. Wrong! The kicker is very severe well left of the green and becomes less severe the closer to the green you get and becomes completely flat a couple of yards off the green. To take advantage of the kicker you have to aim for it (or miss your shot WAY left). The kicker is so severe that if you are brave enough to get your ball to land just inside the left tall grass, the ball will funnel all the way to the back-right portion of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090492.jpg)
In fact, using the kicker may be the best way to get to the right portion of the green because a shot that misses right leaves a tough recovery.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090491.jpg)
-
If there is one course I really want to play, it is WV. It is the closest looking course I've seen to WH.
Mark seems to have made a summer golf journey of a lifetime. Well done, Mark! I really don't think I've seen any better series of documentations of great golf courses, as a series, ever, on GCA.com.
In the spirit and humor of "who was that masked man"... could you tell us more about yourself, Mark
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,240.595.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,240.595.html)
or
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45175.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45175.0.html)
-
RJ,
We met Mark at our outing at Chambers Bay. He's a very low key guy who loves to play golf and also shot an impressive 75 at Chambers on Sunday!!
-
In the spirit and humor of "who was that masked man"... could you tell us more about yourself, Mark
RJ,
Done.
Hole 7: Par 5, 535 Yards
A good hole with a great green. There is a tee somewhere in another country at 600+ and I'm sure the hole plays really different from there.
Though it is not clear from the picture, there is a bunker on the right side of the fairway about 235 yards from the tee and 250 yards to carry. The bunker on the left is about 285 yards out so most players can bail out by aiming left.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090493.jpg)
The course did a phenomenal job of rewarding risks. The fairway gets very wide over the right bunker and if you can carry it you are rewarded with a significant slope. Shots carrying the bunker should get at least an extra fifty yards of roll.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090494.jpg)
The right side of the fairway is where you really want to be off the tee. Most players can't get home in two, but you really want to lay-up short and left of the green. From there you get to look straight up the throat of the undulating 7th green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090495.jpg)
The view from the left is blind and requires the player to carefully pick his line for his second shot.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090496.jpg)
Layups short and right of the green leave a blind approach to the green. Anyone that has played WV knows you want to be able to see this green for your third.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090497.jpg)
From short and left the punchbowl green is in full view.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090498.jpg)
Having played several Engh designs, I am still comfortable saying this is the most severe punchbowl I have ever seen. It would take a lot of time around this green to learn the right place to land the ball if you want to use the slopes. For example, I landed a ball well into the slope back right and had it roll of the front-left part of the green.
I chipped three balls from where this next picture was taken and tried to use the slope just past the pin... all three rolled back well past the pin (you can see them if you look closely).
Perhaps the slopes are too severe. I would need to see the course more times to really say either way.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090499.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090500.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090500a.jpg)
-
Hole 8: Par 3, 200 Yards
Having just finished with 7 green, I think I was slope-crazy. When I first looked at 8, I thought that I should try to play a draw and land the ball right of the right bunker and use the slope there to bring the ball onto the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090501.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090502.jpg)
I'm not sure how I missed it, but I didn't notice this massive slope short-left of the green that one can use to funnel the ball onto the green.
For those that have played WV, is the slope obvious from the tee? Looking at it now I have no idea how I didn't see it.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090504.jpg)
The yardage guide says this is the most difficult green on the course. Again, I disagree (see post on hole 7), but there is a significant ridge running through the center of the green. This slope makes shots from the bunker to a back pin extremely difficult as you have to carry the ball a long way to get over the slope and stop it quickly. I found out that shots landing into the slope will run all the way down to the front edge of the green leaving a very difficult two-putt.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090505.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090506.jpg)
-
Hole 9: Par 4, 430 Yards
A hole I didn't overly care for - just a way to get from 8 back to the clubhouse. Not a ton to add to the pictures here. Shots that challenge the left bunker are left with an approach that does not need to carry the water on the 2nd shot and provide easier access to a back-right pin.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090507.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090508.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090509.jpg)
Another difficult green at WV with significant contouring, especially around the easier (front) pin positions. The back portion of the green is fairly flat, rewarding a player that gets his shot near the most difficult pin on the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090510.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090511.jpg)
-
7 is one of my favorites par 5's anywhere. Once you take on the task of the tee shot, you are then in the go zone of hitting a massive three wood over the huge right bunker guarding the green. The first time around I blocked it a little right of the bunker, I thought I would be in trouble, only to walk up there and see the green is in a huge bowl. You could spend hours trying approach shots into that green. This is a green that asks for a shot not at the pin but one way off a sideboard. The hole is all about angles on your tee shot, second shot, and then approach shot.
It was also cool because on this hole there was a coyote that was in the left rough, it followed us for the next three holes just watching as a spectator would.
-
While 'newbie' Mark may not get this, I have got to make that visit to see Slag Bandoon once again, and get him to meet me in Walla Walla. Besides being an ideal Wine Valley course guide, able to tell campfire stories about the building of this great course, I'll bet he knows the best roadhouse establishments there to boot. ;D 8)
-
Mark - the journey contunues! Great photos.
-
Hole 10: Par 5, 580 Yards
A very straightforward par 5, bunkerless except for a single bunker in front of the green that defines the hole.
The tee shot has a ton of width. Anything between tall grass left and right works just fine.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090512.jpg)
Strategy on the second shot is simple too. Get the ball in the right side of the fairway to give a clear look at the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090513.jpg)
This is one of the most difficult greens at WV. Approaching from the left means you can't see the putting surface, but...
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090514.jpg)
The further right your lay-up...
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090515.jpg)
The clearer the view of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090516.jpg)
Missing this green means big trouble. The hole is simple and you are supposed to hit this green in regulation. If you don't you are unlikely to walk away with par.
There are large run-offs from all directions of the green. If you miss your target by just a few yards, you will roll at least 10-15 yards from the surface. Also notice the green is at a diagonal to an approach from the right, making a shot from there significantly more difficult.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090517.jpg)
To make matters worse, the run-offs are significantly contoured with several 'humps'. Much like undulations on a green, these humps make it very difficult to get the ball close to the hole. If humps of this size were placed on the green, the word unfair would certainly be used by some, but by placing them in the run-offs, it's all good...
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090518.jpg)
As previously mentioned, one the most significantly contoured greens at WV. The simplicity of the hole means you are supposed to hit this green in regulation, and probably reasonably close to the hole. If you don't, 5 is a tough score to make.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090519.jpg)
-
How far from Seattle? 4+ hours?
Anything else in the vicinity or along the way.
Thanks for the tour.
Mike
-
How far from Seattle? 4+ hours?
Anything else in the vicinity or along the way.
Thanks for the tour.
Mike
Mike,
Its going to be about that from Sea Tac. If you fly into Spokane airport though, its only 2.5 hrs.
If you stay in the Spokane area, there is also Gozzer Ranch, Black Rock, Idaho Club, Circling Raven, Palouse Ridge...those 1st 3 depending on access.
-
How far from Seattle? 4+ hours?
Anything else in the vicinity or along the way.
Thanks for the tour.
Mike
Mike,
From Seattle it is about 4.5 hours. Depends on how fast you want to go, it could be less.
Tumble Creek (Doak, Private) is about 90 miles from Seattle and is right on the way.
About 100 miles NE of Wine Valley is Palouse Ridge (Public), which I think is a solid Doak 6, possibly 7.
-
I agree with Dick-WV looks like a fun, fun place to play golf! Thanks for the write-up.
-
We used to have Matt Ward on the board who claimed to have played Wine Valley, and promised us professional pictures of it, which never materialized. I for one am glad that Matt's absence has made room for Mark and the definitive Wine Valley tour.
-
Hole 10: Par 5, 580 Yards
...
The hole is simple and you are supposed to hit this green in regulation. If you don't you are unlikely to walk away with par.
...
As previously mentioned, one the most significantly contoured greens at WV. The simplicity of the hole means you are supposed to hit this green in regulation, and probably reasonably close to the hole. If you don't, 5 is a tough score to make.
Where there's a will, there's a way. ;)
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy145/argraydmd/dscn1290.jpg?t=1250015682)
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy145/argraydmd/dscn1292.jpg?t=1250015739)
-
Hole 10: Par 5, 580 Yards
...
The hole is simple and you are supposed to hit this green in regulation. If you don't you are unlikely to walk away with par.
...
As previously mentioned, one the most significantly contoured greens at WV. The simplicity of the hole means you are supposed to hit this green in regulation, and probably reasonably close to the hole. If you don't, 5 is a tough score to make.
Where there's a will, there's a way. ;)
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy145/argraydmd/dscn1290.jpg?t=1250015682)
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy145/argraydmd/dscn1292.jpg?t=1250015739)
So how many shots were there between the two pictures?
I'm guessing it went something like: thinned wedge from collection area to bunker; thinned wedge from bunker to collection area; learned lesson earlier, used putter to green; left putt just short :D
-
Pitch hole high left. Made putt. PAR, win hole from Kalen. :P
-
As I recall, Garland did get it up and down from the spot, but it was to save bogey to win the hole 6 and 7. ;)
-
Mark:
Thanks for what is turning out to be a great photo tour.
I had the chance to play WV last fall on a beautiful early October day and thoroughly enjoyed the course, probably more so than Chambers Bay which I'd played the day before. I found WV to present a slew of strategic options that were precluded by the length and demands of Chambers Bay, and there was a bit more movement around the greens which made recovery shots and putting a ton of fun.
Some quick thoughts on the front 9 and the course in general -
A. I like the way they hid the bulk of the maintenance, parking and clubhouse facilities from view while you're on the course. If I'm not mistaken, the parking lot area was lowered in order to keep it hidden while you're on the course.
B. There's a tremendous amount of wildlife in the tall grasses of Eastern Washington.
C. I thought the 3 hole opener was pretty strong, and enjoyed the way the holes folded back on each other with a lot of short grass in the connecting areas, especially the way the 2nd fairway evolves out of the 1st.
D. I thought the front was a hair harder than the back, especially 3, 5, 7 and 9. I didn't have a ton of wind the day I played (maybe 5-10mph), but it did make 1 and 3 a bit harder while not seeming to help too much on 2 and 7.
E. I loved the green on 7. We had a front pin which meant you could play a bunch of different types of shots to try to funnel down to the lowest tier. I probably hit about 5 balls during my second round from about 100 out to see how different shots worked.
F. The only hole from the front I don't remember that well is 8, not sure why this is because the pictures you posted make it look like a ton of fun. Perhaps it wasn't too eventful for me, or something tragic happened that I've completely blocked from memory.
G. When putting from just off the green on a few holes, the contours at the edges of the greens were just tricky enough that one had to pay special attention to the initial reaction of the ball.
H. I ended up playing a bunch of holes with a local who did some computer work for the club. He was extremely proud of the course and was a great guide with respect to shots to be played and trouble to be avoided. My first round felt like I had played the course before, and while playing by myself on my second round I felt like I knew the ins and outs pretty well.
I. With respect to two of things you mentioned, I didn't even consider going for the left fairway on 3. I'm not sure what the benefits would be of going that way other than the green does align a bit for a shot from that angle. However, the risks of driving into the rough and/or having to clear the water would lead me to stay right. On 6, I also was perplexed by the way the slopes on the right funneled shots to the green. My first go I tried to play just left of the green hoping for the ball to feed on, only to see my ball stop a yard to the left of the green edge. If you want to risk going well left, you might get a bit more roll, but it seemed to me the shot to play was on line with the left third of the green, taking the trouble on the right out of play.
Looking forward to the rest of the tour.
Sven
-
As I recall, Garland did get it up and down from the spot, but it was to save bogey to win the hole 6 and 7. ;)
Go back and read the thread Dude!
Too bad about your memory getting so weak at such a young age.
:'(
-
Hole 11: Par 3, 155 Yards
A little more deception with the slopes at WV. One (or at least I) expected that shots landing over the bunker front-right would kick towards the back-left. Wrong again. Only shots well right of the green can use the kicker.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090521.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090520.jpg)
Overall, a straightforward short par 3, but this one large hump left of the green made shots that miss left very difficult. It's amazing how one bump can change the nature of a hole.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090522.jpg)
Hole 12: Par 4, 405 Yards
A very solid par 4. The farther left the tee shot, the easier approach, but the sand river is back in play guarding the left side of the fairway. Fortunately, the fairway slopes severely right to left, allowing the player to aim down the right side of the fairway and still be left with an approach from the left.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090523.jpg)
The view from where the majority of tee shots will end up.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090524.jpg)
As will be seen, you really don't want to miss the approach left. Again, the clever player can play away from the danger using this massive slope short-right of the green to funnel the ball down to the hole (though it is not apparent from the fairway that this slope is here to be used).
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090525.jpg)
A look at the trouble left shows that a miss left is lucky if it finds the bunker. The more natural stuff is just bad news.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090526.jpg)
A look at the green shows a green with less internal contouring than many at WV, but some rather severe undulations at the back-right and back-left portions of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090527.jpg)
A look from behind at the kicker short-right of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090528.jpg)
A look at the green (and a better look at the trouble left of the green) from the next tee:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090529.jpg)
-
Hole 13: Par 4, 435 Yards
In my opinion, one of the weakest holes on the course. When I was in the fairway, I was thinking that this is the type of hole that one tries to find interesting when playing a very good golf course. Sure there are a couple of interesting slopes and run-offs, but really it is a mediocre hole. If it was at a poorer course, it would just get passed-off as one OK hole among many. So here it is...
There are bunkers right and left off the tee. Both are reachable with the ones on the right being carry-able by the longer hitters.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090530.jpg)
There is a large downslope over the right bunkers and it seems they are widening the fairway to reward players who carry the bunkers. Still, the angle from the right is miserable.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090531.jpg)
The preferred angle is from the left and allows the player to use the kicker short-right of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090532.jpg)
Said kicker.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090533.jpg)
Once again, the kicker cannot be used by accident. Shots hit long enough to fly onto the green, but hit at the kicker, will fly the kicker and find this very difficult runoff.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090534.jpg)
-
Mark,
Agreed on the 13th...I like the green complex on this hole and thats where it ends. The tee shot is definitly one of the most un-interesting on the course and visually its like watching "Home on the Prairie" after you've been feasting on "Moulin Rouge" up till that point in the round. Thankfully it gets right back going on the next hole.
-
Hole 14: Par 3, 135 Yards
A simple but fun short par 3. There is a little sideboard to the right. There is also one long that is likely more to protect good shots from running into the back bunkers than to actually be used on purpose (of course this backboard means shots that do find the back bunkers are dead). There is also a bit of a false front at the front-right portion of the green and a very large false front in the middle of the green (just left of the pin in the picture) that will have pretty good shots rolling all the way back into the front bunkers.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090535.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090537.jpg)
Again tons of undulation on the green. Another one of those holes where you are supposed to get the ball close to the hole off the tee. If you don't three-putts are very likely.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090538.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090539.jpg)
-
Hole 15: Par 5, 470 Yards
Easily my favorite hole at WV. It's not the kind of short par 5 that will yield the 3-7 score range, more likely the 3-5 range. It's a hole that requires really well thought-out and executed shots to make better than par, but making par should not be a problem.
Off the tee, the shortest line to the green is to take the drive up the left. The best line to the pin is from the right and to get to that angle you have to challenge the bunker on the right. No matter what route you take off the tee, you have to be precise.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090540.jpg)
A look from the right shows a very cleverly placed bunker 40 yards short of the green (I really, really liked the placement of the bunker). From the right you don't need to carry the greenside bunkers to find the green, but you do need to carry the fairway bunker. The player has a very real choice to make whether or not to try to carry the bunker.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090543.jpg)
Not challenging the fairway bunker short of the green leaves a very difficult third to a very shallow green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090544.jpg)
Tee shots that carry the bunker should kick forward and left toward the green leaving a straightforward approach up the throat of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090545.jpg)
A look from behind shows (1) just how shallow the green is, and (2) how diagonal the green lies to the line of play. One really wants to get the ball short-right of the green to leave a simple third.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090546.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090547.jpg)
-
Hole 16: Par 3, 175 Yards
A hole that would likely be better without the front-right bunker :).
It is amazing how two little bumps just short of the green can turn a simple, benign par-3 into one of significant interest. The general slope of the land short of the green should kick balls right on to the green, but the two bumps pictured mean that players attempting to use this slope will subject themselves to a 'luck-of-the-draw' bounce.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090548.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090549.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090550.jpg)
Having played this hole only to a right pin it was difficult to picture how the hole would play to a back-right pin. As the pictures show, there is significant internal contouring on this green and I suspect there is a way to get the ball back-right without messing with that bunker.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090551.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090552.jpg)
-
Hole 17: Par 4, 400 Yards
Some staggered bunkering off the tee provides the need to make a decision off the tee. You can hit plenty of club at keep it short of either the right or left bunkers (about 240 yards), but into this green, you may want as short an iron as possible. Approach from the left is ideal.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090553.jpg)
The approach from about 150 from the centre of the fairway.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090555.jpg)
Did you think that bunker on the left off the tee was a bunker? So did I. I actually don't know what to call it. Maybe a sod-wall? Whatever it is, it is very cool. The big risk here is having the ball stop very close to the wall leaving an impossible stance. I spent a bunch of minutes hitting and throwing balls at the wall (probably 20 balls). I only had one stay in a spot where a righty would have no chance and that ball was moving very, very slowly when it hit the wall. Most would simply hit it and bounce a few feet off leaving a fairly simple shot (like the balls in the photo). Still, the possibility of having the ball stop next to the wall is reason enough for a righty to play away from it.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090556.jpg)
A very rumpled approach and a significant false front. Despite the availability of an open green front, you really want to fly the ball at least to the front-edge, otherwise you will be dealing with a lot of chance.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090557.jpg)
Another green with very significant internal contouring but less severe run-offs than are typical at WV.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090558.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090559.jpg)
-
Hole 18: Par 5, 550 Yards
Staggered bunkering once again, but playing downhill and downwind one simply will do their best to avoid the hazards.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090560.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090562.jpg)
For the second shot, one has several options:
(1) go for the green in two: probably easiest from the left as there is no forced carry over bunkers short of the green
(2) lay-up, but challenge fairway bunkers short of green
(3) lay-up short of bunkers
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090563.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090564.jpg)
From 125 yards out, short of all fairway bunkers
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090565.jpg)
From 50 yards out, past all fairway bunkers. Note significant false front.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090566.jpg)
Long/Right is not the place to miss the final green at WV
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090567.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090568.jpg)
-
Mark,
Thanks for finishing this off.
As for #15 and it being in the 3-5 range, never under estimate the lousy shot ability of the high capper. While I generally had good scores on that hole, I did take one 7 when my tee ball went left in the junk off the tee. After a good recovery back to the fairway, I went left again and found that greenside bunker. It took two to get out!! :'(
Wine Valley is a special place and its certainly best to play it now before the housing goes in!!!
-
Wine Valley is a special place and its certainly best to play it now before the housing goes in!!!
Kalen,
How intrusive will the housing be? I better get out there before it turns residential. Do you think the course could make a go without the homes?
-
Mark,
Thanks for finishing this off.
As for #15 and it being in the 3-5 range, never under estimate the lousy shot ability of the high capper. While I generally had good scores on that hole, I did take one 7 when my tee ball went left in the junk off the tee. After a good recovery back to the fairway, I went left again and found that greenside bunker. It took two to get out!! :'(
Wine Valley is a special place and its certainly best to play it now before the housing goes in!!!
Kalen,
Much of what I write is more aimed at the low-handicap player. I could bring my dad out there and you're right, that 3-5 range would have to be moved to 5-10. My point was that shots that are executed just OK should result in a 5 and good shots should result in 4.
I didn't know there were houses going in. I too am worried it will have a very detrimental effect on the golf course.
-
Wine Valley is a special place and its certainly best to play it now before the housing goes in!!!
Kalen,
How intrusive will the housing be? I better get out there before it turns residential. Do you think the course could make a go without the homes?
Brent,
I saw one drawing of the proposed housing and safe to say it looked like the entire course would be surrounded by McMansions, evn thought they would be set back from the action by a good amount (ie not coming into play). I do know back in the early days of when Wine Valley was 1st coming online that it was made pretty clear that the homes would be a critical part of the business model to make the numbers work.
The biggest problem the course faces is its remote location. The closest major airport is in Spokane which is 2.5 hrs away. So I don't know how well it could make it on its own. The one thing it does have going for it is its proximity to the wine region. Its get a lot of tourists coming thru for that and hopefully wine and golf tourism mix.
I sure hope it can figure out how to make it thru these lean times....
-
Hole 4: Par 4, 350 Yards
You really want to be right of the centerline bunker off the tee. At WV, the ability to land the ball short is important given the firm conditions and being forced to carry the bunker from the left is bad news.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090476.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090477.jpg)
Interestingly, there is a not so insignificant downslope on the left side of the fairway into the fairway bunkers. Shots that are intended to be played short of this bunker but are pulled (and hit just a bit longer) will certainly be penalized.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090478.jpg)
One of the most undulating greens on the course with large slopes/kickers to the right of the green.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090479.jpg)
BUT, anyone getting just a bit too aggressive and going long is pretty much dead...
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Wine%20Valley/P1090481.jpg)
I really like the forced carry for the 2nd shot. You really don't see this alot with the use of a bunker. Well thought.
Anthony
-
Hole 16: Par 3, 175 Yards
A hole that would likely be better without the front-right bunker :).
...
I don't know what Slag could have been thinking when he created that thing.
However, I have to admit it put the fear of God into Kalen, as he missed that bunker by at least 50 yards.
-
Having played here for the first time yesterday, Mark really did a great job with the gestalt of Wine Valley.
For those of you wondering whether to make the trip to Walla Walla, if you are within two hours I say make the detour. For you Seattleites, it's worth a 36 hole day once a year.
My favorite holes: 3,4,5,7,12,14,16
I believe this course will become a GCA favorite. The par 5s are strong, each hole requires some thought, and the conditioning is ideal. I played twice but with each successive round you will find more nuance and fine details. For the green fee it's hard to find better quality golf. If this course were located nearer a major metro it would be rated much higher IMO.
-
Having played here for the first time yesterday, Mark really did a great job with the gestalt of Wine Valley.
For those of you wondering whether to make the trip to Walla Walla, if you are within two hours I say make the detour. For you Seattleites, it's worth a 36 hole day once a year.
My favorite holes: 3,4,5,7,12,14,16
I believe this course will become a GCA favorite. The par 5s are strong, each hole requires some though, and the conditioning is ideal. I played twice but with each successive round you will find more nuance and fine details. For the green fee it's hard to find better quality golf. If this course were located nearer a major metro it would be rated much higher IMO.
+1 Mark, very well said. Its shame its not closer to Spokane as well or it would get more play from me.
-
I just had the pleasure of spending 2 days playing Wine Valley last week, to say I came away impressed is an understatement. I have played all of the usual suspect courses in WA more than one (except Palouse Ridge) and can say that Wine Valley is the best course in Washington bar none!
When you combine Conditioning, Ground Game, Fun, Variety, Walkability and Imagination, Wine Valley tops everything the state has to offer.
I would go so far as to say outside of Bandon, OR Wine Valley is the next best thing going....
Michael
-
So Michael,
I'm guessing you have played Chambers Bay as well? I love Wine Valley but Chambers Bay is a step up on the Doak Scale IMO. WV at 8, CB at 9.
Kalen
-
Kalen, Yes, I have played Chambers on 3 occasions. Is it more dramatic, yes! Wine Valley from a conditioning perspective, particularly with respect to greens turf will never be surpassed by chambers, The fescue works down at bandon, I have never experienced Chambers with surfaces even close to the poa infested Pac Dunes sufaces. The surfaces at wine valley are among the best and truest I have ever played on, allowing maximun imagination on and around the greens themselves. The Puget Sound lends nothing to MY experience at Chambers, just excess eye candy.
Wine Valley is a course I could play daily and never be bored...the wall hazard on 17 is my new favorite and the diagonal attacks required on a few of the holes, especially 15 made the course so interesting. The greens contouring is the coolest i've seen out side of Bandon Trails and I think I had more fun than my summer of golf at RCCC...
I just loved Wine Valley!
Michael
-
Having played here for the first time yesterday, Mark really did a great job with the gestalt of Wine Valley.
For those of you wondering whether to make the trip to Walla Walla, if you are within two hours I say make the detour. For you Seattleites, it's worth a 36 hole day once a year.
My favorite holes: 3,4,5,7,12,14,16
I believe this course will become a GCA favorite. The par 5s are strong, each hole requires some though, and the conditioning is ideal. I played twice but with each successive round you will find more nuance and fine details. For the green fee it's hard to find better quality golf. If this course were located nearer a major metro it would be rated much higher IMO.
+1 Mark, very well said. Its shame its not closer to Spokane as well or it would get more play from me.
Kalen,
His name is Brent. I know you had a traumatic experience when you played with him, so I can understand how you block out his name.
-
For those of you wondering whether to make the trip to Walla Walla, if you are within two hours I say make the detour. For you Seattleites, it's worth a 36 hole day once a year.
I sort of disagree, mainly because there's no civilization to speak of within 2 hours from which one would "detour" to Wine Valley.
I say instead that if you're in the Pacific Northwest for several days, and you're playing golf at the likes of Chambers Bay in the Puget Sound, or Gozzer Ranch in Northern Idaho, or Tetherow in Bend, Oregon, you ought to be asking why you're not also trying Wine Valley, even if it is more than a three or four hour drive from most of those locations.
-
Michael,
Very well put. I do think the greens at Wine Valley are far superior to the ones at Chambers as they do run very true...but I also thought the green at CB has a fair amount of undulation as well. No doubt WV has some very good holes like 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 14, and 15...but I thought the holes at CB exceeded them in terms of variety, options, and in the epic factor.
I too like the wall feature on 17, very neat. I also very much like the sand river concept on 5, 12, and 14.
-
Now that we're solidly entrenched in December - albeit with less snow than normal here on the Canadian Prairies - I like to think back to the courses my wife and I enjoyed on our trips last summer, out to Montana and Washington. In particular, we really enjoyed Wine Valley, and I want to thank Mark for his wonderful photo tour of the course. It helped bring back some great memories of the course.
Mark, it looks like you had a great day - weather-wise - at Wine Valley, as did we. It was +33 with a light wind that day in mid-August, the day after golfing Chambers Bay with Richard Choi. The course played beautifully, firm and fast. The greens putted really true, and at just the right speed.
One thing I want to mention is the 17th green. The green has two distinct levels, front and back, with a slope right in the middle of the green. On each side of that slope, on the left side and the right side of that green, are subtle banks which can aid you in getting the ball close to the hole if you're on the wrong level. I won't come close to the great job Mark did on showing off the course, but hopefully the two photos below aid in my description.
Walking back onto the green, photo taken from behind the hole.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc296/firstteeindoorgolf/IMG_3677.jpg)
We finished the hole and I grabbed my camera and took this quick picture to show the contours in the green. My approach shot had finished near the back edge of the green, on the back shelf. The pin was in the front middle, lower shelf. I figured that if I putted right at the hole, my ball wouldn't stop on the green (assuming I would miss - likely from 25 feet) and could conceivably roll down the fairway dozens of yards. I kept looking at the bank over to my right, and finally decided to give it a try. My wife and I watched as the ball rolled some 20 feet over to the right in a huge arc, around the middle slope, and came to rest some 2 feet away for a "holiday trip gimmie".
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc296/firstteeindoorgolf/IMG_3679.jpg)
It may have been the most fun I've had in a putt that I didn't sink.
-
The time between swing and result is key!