Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Tom_Doak on July 13, 2011, 11:37:45 PM
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[EDIT: See my post #32]
The thread where everyone posts their top ten courses built since 1995 is interesting, but it's also pointless, since some of the courses have been seen by many more raters than others.
How else to approach it?
Let's try it again, using the 3-star Michelin system. Rate all of the top modern courses you've seen, and assign them from one to three stars as follows:
*** - absolutely at the top of the list, or tied for it [don't use this for more than 5 courses]
** - you think this would be a top ten modern course, if you had seen them all
* - noteworthy, but not likely among the top ten overall
0 - not in the same league as the rest
Then we could compute the average score for each of the courses mentioned, if we wanted to; but the star ratings would be more meaningful than the top 10 lists.
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Tom - I like the idea, however, if this idea were to be marketed, I think it would be a better use to spread out the stars to at least a 5 star rating scale. I love the three 1.5 star rated courses I have but for the golfer with less course education than us geeks, 1.5 stars sure sounds pretty lame.
My list in order:
1. Pacific Dunes - 3 stars
2. Ballyneal - 3 stars
3. Sand Hills - 3 stars
4. Kingsbarns - 2 stars
5. European Club 1.5 stars
6. Bandon Dunes 1.5 stars
7. Bandon Trails 1.5 stars
8. Harvester - 1
9. Giants Ridge - 1
10. Windsong Farm - .5
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Pacific Dunes- ***
Bandon Dunes- *
Bandon Trails- *
Old Macdonald- **
Eagle Point- *
Whistling Straits- *
Pinehurst #8- 0
Forest Creek (Both)- 0
Tobacco Road- *
Royal New Kent- *
All other Mike Strantz courses- 0
World Woods (Pine Barrens)- *
Riverfront- 0
I think thats all the post-modern courses I have seen, at least all the ones of any possible note.
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Tom, I need to see Friars Head again to decide whether it is a *** or **. So I have given it a **1/2 for now. Here is the rest of my list:
1. Pacific Dunes ***
2. Sand Hills***
3. Ballyneal***
4. Old Macdonald***
5. Friars Head**1/2
6. Bandon Trails**
7. Dallas National*
8. Dormie Club*
9. Bandon Dunes*
10. Diamond Creek*
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Ed,
Curious to know why Bandon Dunes would receive a * when it is architecturally unremarkable and I have to imagine you've seen more courses built since 1995 more worth of a * than Bandon Dunes.
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Hidden Creek*
Pacific Dunes***
Kingsley Club***
Greywalls*
Forest Dunes*
I only listed the ones that I thought were worthy of a *, there were several that would be 0's.
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Doak wants you to list every modern era course you have played in case one mans zero is another mans three. Remember the kid last year who said Sand Hills was a Doak 5. We would have never learned that looking at his top 10 assuming he had never played there.
I can not participate as I have no idea which courses I have played or not in the last 43 years. It would be like being able to name all the restaurants where I have eaten.
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Ed,
Curious to know why Bandon Dunes would receive a * when it is architecturally unremarkable and I have to imagine you've seen more courses built since 1995 more worth of a * than Bandon Dunes.
Jason, I wasn't that impressed with Bandon Dunes the first go around. But after 4 plays, my respect has grown significantly. In my opinion, it is a very good course, albeit my least favorite at the resort. Here are the next half dozen courses (in no order) on my post-1995 list: Whistling Straits, Chechessee, Sage Valley, Atlantic, Eagle Point. Are any of those better than Bandon Dunes? I don't think so. Remember, there are a bunch of top notch courses on Golfweek's modern list that aren't eligible since they predate the 1995 threshhold.
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Good question for me; I've played quite a few moderns. Not Matt Ward numbers, mind you. In no particular order:
Ballyneal ***
Pacific Dunes ***
Sand Hills ***
Kinloch **
Bandon Trails **
Old Macdonald **
Friar's Head **
Rock Creek Cattle Co. **
Bandon Dunes **
I can't decide who to put at #10. Four or five courses are about equal in my book, including Boston Golf Club and Pronghorn (Nicklaus), which is a very interesting test of one's shotmaking and ballstriking skills.
Post modified to the new criteria. Like the simple ratings suggested. Others are *.
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I can not participate as I have no idea which courses I have played or not in the last 43 years.
The good news is that for this exercise you only need to remember back 16 years. Still no small task I understand :)
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I don't see that many modern courses, but here goes (including significant redos of courses)
Kiawah TOC 1*
Tobacco Road 1*
Bearwood Lakes 0, but still recommended
The Players Club - Stranahan 0, but still recommended
Lederach 0, but still recommended
Bulls Bay 1*
Shepherd's Hollow 0, but still recommended
Enniscrone 1*
______________________________________
Praia del Rey (not recommended)
PGA Catalunya (not recommended)
Ciao
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A baker's dozen by star ratings
Barnbougle Dunes ***
Sand Hills ***
Ballyneal ***
Pacific Dunes ***
Old Macdonald **
Castle Stuart **
Friars Head **
Rustic Canyon **
Lost Farm **
Kingsley Club*
Cape Kidnappers *
Rock Creek Cattle Co. *
Bandon Trails *
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David K: No love for St Andrews Beach or Kinloch?
For mine:
***
Barnbougle Dunes
**
St Andrews Beach
Barnbougle Lost Farm
*
The Renaissance Club
Praia d'el Rey
Casa Serena
0
Batchworth Park
Druids Glen
Terrey Hills
There are others I wouldn't even include in that bottom grouping.
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Ballyneal***
Pacific Dunes***
Sand Hills***
Kingsbarns**
European Club**
Bandon Dunes**
Chambers Bay*
Renaissance Club*
Colorado Golf Club*
Bandon Trails*
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Sand Hills ***
Pacific Dunes ***
Old Macdonald ***
Sebonack **
Friar's Head **
Bandon Dunes **
Kingsbarns *
Bandon Trails *
Chambers Bay *
Rustic Canyon *
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***
Sand Hills
Pacific Dunes
Old Macdonald
**
Barnbougle Dunes
Friars Head
California Club
Bandon Trails
*
St Andrews Beach
Barnbougle Lost Farm
National (Moonah)
Kennedy Bay
Kingsbarns
0
Lots....
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I would like to suggest another approach to this. It is similar to the teaching of Architectural (building) history in which styles or ideas have a beginning point, development point, a culmination point, an over the top point and finally a passe - cliche point ... and then something may be begin to be recognized leading to something else during that process of the former style.
I am not sure what topics - ideas and how their representative course(s) would exactly fit in. There are always outliers.
Would some of you say that we are approaching the culmination point in the "minimilist movement"?
Would an emerging style be the "affordable - grunge - ultra simple" to respond to new economic and environmental realities?
Would the late Mike Strantz represent an outlier?
Would Whistling Straits represent the over the top?
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I'll try again with my list from the other thread:
Ballyneal***
Renaissance**
Dismal River**
Inniscrone*
The Ocean Course at Kiawah*
May River*
Ledearch(1/2)--I'd like to have a KBM course in my top 10-20, but the houses here detract.
Morgan Hill
Long Shadow
Galloway National
Bottom Line: I need to play more of the best modern courses. Unfortunately, most of them are a long way from Rochester, but I'll get there, soon enough.
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Daryl David:
The European Club is pre-1995. If it were post 95 I'd give it a 0.
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Pacific Dunes ***
Ballyneal ***
Barnbougle Dunes ***
Bandon Trails **
Chambers Bay **
Rustic Canyon **
Old Macdonald **
Bandon Dunes *
Stone Eagle *
Cuscowilla *
Wild Horse *
Kiawah Ocean *
We Ko Pa Saguaro *
Longshadow *
Pine Barrens *
Barona Creek *
Black Mesa 0
Rolling Oaks 0
Waverly Oaks 0
Eagle Crest 0
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*** - absolutely at the top of the list, or tied for it [don't use this for more than 5 courses]
** - you think this would be a top ten modern course, if you had seen them all
* - noteworthy, but not likely among the top ten overall
Why focus on 10? And: Why speculate?
Why not follow the Michelin system as Michelin follows it?
From wikipedia:
"The guide awards one to three stars to a small number of restaurants of outstanding quality. One star indicates a "very good cuisine in its category", a two-star ranking represents "excellent cuisine, worth a detour," and three stars are awarded to restaurants offering "exceptional cuisine, worth a special journey". A three-star Michelin ranking is rare. As of late 2009, there were 26 three-star restaurants in France, and only 81 in the world.[8]"
Maybe there are 10 3-star courses built since 1995. Maybe there aren't any.
I suppose it all depends on who's doing the journeying and the detouring -- but still, Michelin's idea makes more sense to me.
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Tom - this isn't going to work either the way it has been started because everyone interpreted your post differently. Many are still posting only their top 10 courses and putting stars by them which isn't going to solve the problem of the first thread.
On the other end of the spectrum, JaKa seems to think 1995 was 43 years ago.
Someone is going to have to create a spreadsheet with all the post-moderns and have everyone vote for everyone they've played if this is to have any value.
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Why focus on 10? And: Why speculate?
Why not follow the Michelin system as Michelin follows it?
From wikipedia:
"The guide awards one to three stars to a small number of restaurants of outstanding quality. One star indicates a "very good cuisine in its category", a two-star ranking represents "excellent cuisine, worth a detour," and three stars are awarded to restaurants offering "exceptional cuisine, worth a special journey". A three-star Michelin ranking is rare. As of late 2009, there were 26 three-star restaurants in France, and only 81 in the world.[8]"
Maybe there are 10 3-star courses built since 1995. Maybe there aren't any.
I suppose it all depends on who's doing the journeying and the detouring -- but still, Michelin's idea makes more sense to me.
Dan:
I only suggested the top 5 / top 10 cutoffs to make people focus a bit. The difficult part of these rankings is that there are a lot of people who don't know what a *** restaurant (or golf course) is, so you get too many high votes from people who are less well traveled, and that skews the results. Plus, what we were trying for is a top ten list, based on the other thread ... so if there are no *** modern courses, fine, but there is still a top ten of ** courses.
I don't know exactly how Michelin works, but I tend to doubt that a three-star Michelin rating is the average of a bunch of different voters; I suspect they reserve the third star for a select group of editors to award.
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Wow, no Old Sandwich in the mix at all?
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Yes the *** Michelin rating is very hard to come by and handed out in very small doses. For instance, Chicago, which has one of the biggest foodie scenes in the world these days, has exactly 2 3-star designations, which is 1 too many in my book...
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Someone is going to have to create a spreadsheet with all the post-moderns and have everyone vote for everyone they've played if this is to have any value.
Tim:
I was trying not to have to get to that point, and just have people rate the likely candidates they've played. But you are right, we'd need a ballot and there might need to be 30-50 courses on it.
Let's start with any course that's gotten two stars from anybody so far:
Ballyneal
Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Barnbougle Dunes
Cal Club [should it count?]
Castle Stuart
Chambers Bay
Dismal River I
Friars Head
Kingsbarns
Kingsley Club
Kinloch
Lost Farm
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes
The Renaissance Club
Rock Creek
Rustic Canyon
Sand Hills
Sebonack
St. Andrews Beach
What others would someone give two stars or rate higher than half of those above?
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If the Cal Club counts, does ANGC count as well?
And although I wouldn't get my vote, the ballot should include Whistling Straits.
Others that are notable for various reasons and should be included in the conversation:
Saguaro - desert course designed with walking in mind
Wild Horse - the community course
Erin Hills - as deserving of discussion as Chambers Bay
Wine Valley - this site needs more photos of WV
Hidden Creek - way below the radar
Dunes Club - the 9-holer
TOC - Kiawah was 1991, doesn't count
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Let's start with any course that's gotten two stars from anybody so far:
Ballyneal
Bandon Dunes ***
Bandon Trails **
Barnbougle Dunes
Cal Club [should it count?]
Castle Stuart
Chambers Bay *
Dismal River I
Friars Head
Kingsbarns **
Kingsley Club **
Kinloch **
Lost Farm
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes ***
The Renaissance Club
Rock Creek
Rustic Canyon
Sand Hills ***
Sebonack *
St. Andrews Beach
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If the Cal Club counts, does ANGC count as well?
And although I wouldn't get my vote, the ballot should include Whistling Straits.
Others that are notable for various reasons and should be included in the conversation:
Saguaro - desert course designed with walking in mind
Wild Horse - the community course
Erin Hills - as deserving of discussion as Chambers Bay
Wine Valley - this site needs more photos of WV
Hidden Creek - way below the radar
Dunes Club - the 9-holer
TOC - Kiawah was 1991, doesn't count
The Dunes Club is pre-95 I believe...How about Lost Dunes?
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The Dunes Club is pre-95 I believe...How about Lost Dunes?
Unless 1995 (per GW) is pre-95, you are mistaken. However, I did find someone else that attributes it to 1990, in which case GW and I would both be mistaken.
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Let's start with any course that's gotten two stars from anybody so far:
Ballyneal
Bandon Dunes ***
Bandon Trails **
Barnbougle Dunes
Cal Club [should it count?]
Castle Stuart
Chambers Bay *
Dismal River I
Friars Head
Kingsbarns **
Kingsley Club **
Kinloch **
Lost Farm
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes ***
The Renaissance Club
Rock Creek
Rustic Canyon
Sand Hills ***
Sebonack *
St. Andrews Beach
I enjoy this thread and am working on my list, but agree that it needs further definition. On Paul's list, for instance, I do not know what it means if a course receives no stars. Was it not played or does it not deserve any stars? I'm guessing that the courses above were not played. Perhaps we need to add that if it was played and you judge it not deserving of any stars, it receive a 0. If this does go into a spreadsheet, the only way it can be accurate is if those without a star are so noted.
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This really narrows the scope and is therefore, easier to focus on true delineation than a 10 point scale IMO. I didn't list all the moderns I've seen, just some that help form a clear distinction.
Pac Dunes***
Ballyneal***
Wolf Point***
Friars Head**
Kingsley **
Bandon Trails*
Stone Eagle*
Hidden Creek*
Bandon Dunes*
TPC Oaks San Antonio
Saguaro
TS North
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I will reboot this thread once we close the nominations.
I will keep adding to the ballot in this spot as nominations come in. I'm going to add any new courses that are in the top 100 in the world, and any that are in the GOLFWEEK top 30 modern, as deserving of the ballot. After that, it's any course that at least two people would give two stars, below this post.
Here goes:
Arcadia Bluffs
Ballyhack
Ballyneal
Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Barnbougle Dunes
Bayonne
Cal Club [should it count?]
Calusa Pines
Cape Kidnappers
Castle Stuart
Chambers Bay
Dallas National
Diamante
Dismal River I
Erin Hills
Friars Head
Hidden Creek
Kauri Cliffs
Kingsbarns
Kingsley Club
Kinloch
Lost Farm
Monterey Peninsula (Shore)
Nanea
Nine Bridges, Korea
Oitavos Dunes, Portugal
Old Macdonald
Old Sandwich
Pacific Dunes
Quarry at Giant's Ridge
The Renaissance Club
Rock Creek
Rustic Canyon
Sagebrush
Sand Hills
Sebonack
St. Andrews Beach
Sutton Bay
Victoria National
Whistling Straits (Straits)
Wild Horse
Wine Valley
Wolf Point
I first saw The Dunes Club en route home from my son's baptism, in 1991, so that 1995 date can't be right.
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I make a MAJOR detour every chance I get to visit Sutton Bay. I haven't seen enough of the others to be taking part in this, but I would give it at least two Michelin stars.
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To repeat, Ballyneal***, Renaissance**, and Dismal River**. I'd almost include Inniscrone as a **, but it has a couple weak holes that keep it out.
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Old MacDonald ***
Chambers Bay **
Bandon Trails **
Wine Valley *
Pacific Dunes *
Sagebrush *
Juniper *
Tetherow *
Palouse Ridge 0
Others 0
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Huntsman Springs?
Inniscrone?
the Horse Course?
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Huntsman Springs?
Inniscrone?
the Horse Course?
Jud:
We're not trying to list the top 50 here. If you wouldn't give them two stars, they don't need to be on the ballot.
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Colorado Golf Club is as good as at least five of the courses currently nominated. I'll second the motion for its inclusion.
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Corrected
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ok-Lost Dunes I'd give 2 stars to....
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***
Ballyneal
Pacific Dunes
**
Bandon Trails
Chambers Bay
Pronghorn (Fazio)
Sagebrush
*
Clear Creek
Cuscowilla
MPCC (Shore)
Old Macdonald
Rock Creek Cattle
Rustic Canyon
Wine Valley
Good courses played but not there
Bandon Dunes, Wild Horse, Royal New Kent.
Arcadia Bluffs, Home Course, Juniper, Stone Eagle,
Wild Horse, Kingsbarns, Tobiano, Palms, Plantation, National(Moonah), Wolf Creek,
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Inniscrone?
I'm one of Hanse's biggest fans but I'd call Inniscrone his third best course in Philadelphia.
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***
**
...
Sagebrush
*
...
Old Macdonald
...
Good courses played but not there
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Homer! ;D
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***
Ballyneal
RCCC
Pacific Dunes
**
Gozzer Ranch
Wine Valley
*
Black Rock
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I've never seen a few of these, but I'm surprised not to see Boston GC, Greywalls, Tobacco Road, Dormie Club.
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Here are mine - I haven't played too many so "N' = not played. Wow, many of you guys need to get out here!
Arcadia Bluffs - N
Ballyneal - N
Bandon Dunes *
Bandon Trails **
Barnbougle Dunes - N
Bayonne - N
Cal Club [should it count?] - N
Calusa Pines - N
Cape Kidnappers - N
Castle Stuart - N
Chambers Bay - N
Dallas National - N
Dismal River I ***
Dismal River II ***
Erin Hills - N
Friars Head - **
Hidden Creek - N
Kauri Cliffs - N
Kingsbarns - **
Kingsley Club - N
Kinloch - N
Lost Farm - N
Monterey Peninsula (Shore) *
Nanea - N
Nine Bridges, Korea - N
Oitavos Dunes, Portugal - N
Old Macdonald **
Old Sandwich - N
Pacific Dunes***
The Renaissance Club - N
Rock Creek - N
Rustic Canyon - N
Sand Hills***
Sebonack - N
St. Andrews Beach - N
Whistling Straits (Straits)*
Wild Horse*
Wine Valley - N
Wolf Point - N
The Gallery Original - *
Whisper Rock *
Estancia*
Iron Horse*
Shooting Star*
Huntsman Springs*
Snake River Sporting Club *** (now closed)
I first saw The Dunes Club en route home from my son's baptism, in 1991, so that 1995 date can't be right.
[/quote]
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Pacific Dunes
Diamante
Kingsbarns
Castle Stuart
Chambers Bay
Whistling Straites
Bandon Dunes
Wine Valley
Cape Kidnappers
Bandon Trails
Roko Ki
Cap Cana
In that order of the ones I've played. All ***.
Anthony
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Rock Creek ***
Sand Hills ***
Pac Dunes ***
Old Macdonald ***
Victoria National ***
Ballyneal ***
Sebonack ***
Friars Head ***
Alotian ***
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Arcadia Bluffs-0
Bahia de Los Suenos-*
Bandon Dunes-*
Bandon Trails-**
Balck Sheep-*
Barona Creek-*
Diamante-*
Erin Hills-*
Forest Creek N-*
Forest Creek S-0
Kingsbarns-**
Kingsley Club-***
Lost Dunes-**
Pacific Dunes-***
Rustic Canyon-**
Talking Stick North-*
Tobacco Road-*
WeKoPa Saguaro-*
Whistling Straits (Straits)-*
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For those who listed Kiawah TOC...the Ryder Cup was played there in 1991, four years before 1995 ;)
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Did a lot of thinking last night, came up with the following, from my list of courses built post '95 I've played:
1) Rawls Course - Texas Tech - Tom Doak
2) Black Mesa - Baxter Spann
3) Twisted Dune - Archie Struthers
4) Inniscrone - Gil Hanse
5) Pete Dye GC - Pete Dye - don't know if this makes it in under the wire for 95.
6) Tobacco Rd - Mike Strantz
7) Mystic Rock - Pete Dye - I think this one makes it, time-wise anyway
8 ) Birdsfoot - ???
Can't think of any others I've played, I was really hoping I could round out a top 10. When was Paa-Ko built? I don't know if Pensacola CC's redo following the hurricane counts, but if it does, it slides into #2 and bumps the others down.
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confused. think I got it straight now. new post ahead.
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Dismal River I ***
Dismal River II ***
Tom, no pressure.
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Sand Hills, Pacific Dunes, Friars Head, Sebonack, Chambers Bay, Bandon Trails, Old Ma, Whistling Strait, Wolf Point and Cuscowilla will stand the test of time. I am not sure about redo like MPCC Shore. It is a new course but I do not think it belongs in that group.
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Dismal River I ***
Dismal River II ***
Tom, no pressure.
Howard, I began DR.V2.0 with four stars! Tom and I are the only people who have played it.
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Old MacDonald ***
Chambers Bay **
Bandon Trails **
Wine Valley *
Pacific Dunes *
Sagebrush *
Juniper *
Tetherow *
Palouse Ridge 0
Others 0
Chambers Bay a ** and Pacific Dunes a *. Explain this.
Anthony
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***
Pacific Dunes
Kingsley Club
**
Bandon Trails
*
Greywalls
Kiawah - Ocean Course
Diamante
Erin Hills
Black Sheep
Bandon Dunes
Arcadia Bluffs
0s (the ones that were at least in the discussion)
Lost Dunes
Forest Dunes
Barona Creek
Kiawah - Cassique
Chicago Highlands
A couple of the *s were close to getting a ** vote, but missed out due to the competition I haven't played. Very hard exercise if you closely follow Tom's parameters.
Courses I haven't played but which I believe would contest for the top 10:
Ballyneal
Barnbougle Dunes
Castle Stuart
Chambers Bay
Friar's Head
Kingsbarns
Old Macdonald
Old Sandwich
Rock Creek
Sand Hills
Lost Farm
Sebonack
St. Andrews Beach
Wolf Point
Prairie Club - Dunes
Cape Kidnappers
Dormie Club
Boston Golf Club
Sagebrush
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Here's how I'd rank the courses I've played (alphabetical by * rating), with only one addition to the current ballot:
***
Ballyneal
Pacific Dunes
Sand Hills
**
Old Macdonald
Sagebrush (adding to ballot)
*
Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Sebonack
I've played close to 50 courses that were built after 1995 but I don't think anyone would give the ones not listed a rating of ** or better so I've omitted the rest.
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Old MacDonald ***
Chambers Bay **
Bandon Trails **
Wine Valley *
Pacific Dunes *
Sagebrush *
Juniper *
Tetherow *
Palouse Ridge 0
Others 0
Chambers Bay a ** and Pacific Dunes a *. Explain this.
Anthony
Chambers Bay is more enjoyable for a high handicapper like me. Less *** pucker on the tee, for example. I lost 5 balls at Pacific. I don't remember losing a ball at Chambers.
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Old MacDonald ***
Chambers Bay **
Bandon Trails **
Wine Valley *
Pacific Dunes *
Sagebrush *
Juniper *
Tetherow *
Palouse Ridge 0
Others 0
Chambers Bay a ** and Pacific Dunes a *. Explain this.
Anthony
Chambers Bay is more enjoyable for a high handicapper like me. Less *** pucker on the tee, for example. I lost 5 balls at Pacific. I don't remember losing a ball at Chambers.
I see. The lost ball criteria that I employ myself. Wine Valley looks a little low too.
Anthony
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***
Ballyneal
Sand Hills
**
Barnbougle Dunes
Pacific Dunes
*
Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Castle Stuart
Clear Creek Tahoe
Friar’s Head
Lost Farm
St. Andrews Beach – Gunnamatta
Stone Eagle
0
Black Mesa
Colorado Golf Club
Darkhorse
Dismal River
Kingsbarn
Lakota Canyon Ranch
Mayacama
MPCC - Shore
Rustic Canyon
St. Andrews - The Castle Course
The National – Moonah
Tobacco Road
Tot Hill Farm
TPC SF @ Stonebrae
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*** none played yet
** Friar's Head
* Rustic Canyon
Chechessee Creek (love this place)
Colorado Golf Club
Dormie (maybe **) but need to play again
Laurel Links
Diamond Creek
0* Ballyhack
Mountaintop
Brights Creek
Tobacco Rd
Bulls Bay
Vaquero
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***
**
...
Sagebrush
*
...
Old Macdonald
...
Good courses played but not there
...
Homer! ;D
Yes, I have playing privileges at Sagebrush. But there are very few indifferent shots to be had, it makes maximum use of the terrain and
is an extremely fun cart-ball course where a walker/carrier has gone 36. The only drawback is the dresscode at the Hideaway :-*
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***
barny dunes
**
pacific dunes
*
Lost farm
Bandon trails
Old McDonald
National moonah
st Andrews beach
Rustic canyon
0
stone Eagle
Hidden creek
Mpcc shore
Bandon dunes
Tobacco road
Everything else in Australia
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When it comes to adding stars to a conversation, I am reminded of a good friend of mine who answered an invitation from Michelin for his reataurant to be graded by them.
His reponse was as follows:
"Dear Bob,
Nothing new.
In the 80 I wrote a letter to Michelin saying I do not want any stars and I do not want to be in the Guide in Paris or in London. I explained that I do not want my food to be judged by a tyre manufacturer?!?"
He plays at CPC, Morfontaine, The Lido in Venice and Sunningdale. I think a couple of those would have stars.
Bob
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*
Dunes Club (Michigan) - * I found conflicting information, they may have opened in '90 not '95.
Austin Golf Club
0
Spanish Oaks
Sage Valley
Tobacco Road
Forest Creek (South)
Whistling Straits
Old Head
Pine Dunes
Doonbeg
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added to list: Diamante, Sagebrush, Victoria National
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Tom,
If Cal Club is going to be on the ballot, then Mike Clayton's firm's redesign of The Lakes in Sydney should be on there as well.
Of course including redesigns is maybe not the best idea.
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***
Ballyneal
Sand Hills
**
Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Dormie Club
Hidden Creek
*
Cabo Del Sol
Mayacama
Tobacco Road
Friars Head
Sebonack
Rustic Canyon
World Woods - Pine Barrens
Kingsley Club
RTJ
Colorado Golf
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Sorry more than ten but added one or two new ones
***
Kingsley -- My eight year old was able to play it with me last week and both have fun
Pac Dunes
**
Bayonne
MPCC
Chechesee
Ridge at Back Brook (New)
Straits
*
B Dunes
Erin Hills
Hidden Creek
Sand Ridge (new)
Stone Eagle
Preserve
May River
0
Arcadia
B Trails
-1*
Wolf Creek
-
Of the ones I have played-
Sand Hills ***
Ballyneal ***
Pacific Dunes ***
Cape Kidnappers **
Barnbougle **
Kingsbarns *.5
Bandon Trails*.5
Bandon Dunes *
National ( Moonah )*
Kauri Cliffs *
Kinloch (NZ ) .5
Wild Horse
The Bridge
Jacks Point
Clearwater
Brookwater
Natandola Bay ( Fiji )
Moonah Open
Moonah Legends
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Below is the list of those from the nomination list that i have played with the additional nomination of Ballyhack.
Pacific Dunes ***
Sand Hills ***
Cape Kidnappers ***
Ballyhack**
Ballyneal **
Kauri Cliffs *
Kinloch *
Bandon Dunes *
Bandon Trails *
Monterey Peninsula (Shore) *
Sebonack *
Dormie Club *
Bayonne
Colorado Golf Club
While in my previous thread I listed Ballyhack and Cape Kidnappers as tied in a numerical ranking of MY PERSONAL modern to 10 since 1995 of those courses i have played, i concede that Cape Kidnappers combination of site and design make it a definitive top 10 modern in the world (in my opinion) whereas i concede that others on the nomination list that others rave about may potentially find a higher place on my list...
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I feel like I am missing something. Everyone keeps posting 3*, 2*, etc but I thought we were first compiling a list of eligible candidates for a top 10 modern list (see post 32). If a course you would have as a 3* or 2* is already on the list, then no need to post. If it's not on the list, then post it to be added to the list.
-
***
Pacific Dunes
Kingsley
Black Mesa
**
Giants Ridge Quarry
Apache Stronghold (my favorite course but obviously is a zero today)
Bandon Trails
*
Deacons Lodge
Classic at Maddens
Windsong Farms
Big Fish
Estancia
Southern Dunes (AZ)
We Ko Pa Saguaro
We Ko Pa (Cholla)
Rustic Canyon
Stone Eagle
WW Pine Barrens
The Harvester
Tobacco Road
Sutton Bay
0 (I would eagerly play nearly all of my zeros but like the others on the list better)
Bearpath
Chaska Town Course
Dacotah Ridge
Giant's Ridge - Legends
Legends (MN and IA)
Rush Creek
Spring Hill
The Wilds
Troy Burne
Canoa Ranch
Desert Mountain Chiracaua
Estrella GC
Vistal
Whilwind Devils Claw
PGA West - Norman
The Plantation (CA & FL)
The Palms
Primm Valley (Lakes)
San Juan Oaks
Silver Rock
Terra Lago (one of the two - can't remember which one)
The Reserve
River Hall
Verandah - Old Orange
Eagle Ridge - General
Arcadia
Tot Hill Farms
Sandia
Twin Warriers
Paiute - Wolf
Wolf Creek
Barton Creek - Fazio Canyons
GC of Texas
The Bandit
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There are a dozen courses which have received one "two-star" vote, but no more have received a second two-star vote so far.
As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.
P.S. Does anybody want to pretend they are Matt Ward and vote for a dozen that I've omitted? Nobody has voted for Red Ledges or that Fazio course in Utah yet ... what's the matter with you pardners? ;)
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Top Ten Courses since 1995
OK Tom, here's my list, with a second nomination for Ballyhack. I seriously considered giving both Ballyhack and Kingsley ***, but I decided in the end Pac Dunes and Ballyneal are a smidgeon better.
***
Pacific Dunes
Ballyneal
**
Kingsley Club
Ballyhack
*
Bandon Dunes
Longshadow
Caledonia just misses, built in 1994, I would have given this one star I think (based only on one play admittedly)
0 but noteworthy
Common Ground
Beechtree (NLE)
Laurel Hill – probably the best public in the DC metro area
The Mines – great fun Devries course
True Blue - I'm surprised no one has mentioned this course at all
0 - decent but not worth paying the $$$$ for
Pinehurst #4
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... what's the matter with you pardners? ;)
We don't get compensated for our course visits.
-
I feel like I am missing something. Everyone keeps posting 3*, 2*, etc but I thought we were first compiling a list of eligible candidates for a top 10 modern list (see post 32). If a course you would have as a 3* or 2* is already on the list, then no need to post. If it's not on the list, then post it to be added to the list.
What you are missing is that most people read the first post in a thread, then read the last couple and fire off a post.
That results in repetitions of previous posts followed by it getting accolades for having thought of something no one else would.
:-\
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There are a dozen courses which have received one "two-star" vote, but no more have received a second two-star vote so far.
As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.
P.S. Does anybody want to pretend they are Matt Ward and vote for a dozen that I've omitted? Nobody has voted for Red Ledges or that Fazio course in Utah yet ... what's the matter with you pardners? ;)
Andy Troeger just played them so maybe he can chime in as Matt.
-
If still needed, I'll be the second vote for two stars on Sutton Bay and the Quarry at Giants Ridge. I like The Wilderness nearly as much as the Quarry, but I'll hold off on a two-star vote there.
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added: Ballyhack, Sutton Bay, Quarry at Giant's Ridge
We are up to 44 courses on the ballot to try and identify the top 10. I think I will cap it at 50, or by the end of this weekend, whichever comes first.
Jim Colton has offered to compile results for the voting, though I was more interested in seeing the raw data than in starting "another ranking".
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There are a dozen courses which have received one "two-star" vote, but no more have received a second two-star vote so far.
As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.
P.S. Does anybody want to pretend they are Matt Ward and vote for a dozen that I've omitted? Nobody has voted for Red Ledges or that Fazio course in Utah yet ... what's the matter with you pardners? ;)
Ask Andy T about those he recently played them. I've seen them but have not played them, so can't comment.
-
Tom,
How long is the list of just the 3 star courses? It would seem you could get your top 10 just from those which have been nominated as 3 stars?
-
Can I give Rock Creek more than 3 stars? It deserves it.
-
I think the raw data is more interesting especially when also taking into consideration the number of people that have played and rated respective courses. As my original goal with the post was simply to see what other "modern" courses members of this community hold in the highest regard. It is clear that there is a lot of overlap, but also a lot of variation. I am interested to see if 30 people played course X and 90% of those that have played course X rate it 2-Star or better vs 30 who have played course Y but only 20% have rated it 2-Star or better. Further a course only played by 5 individuals but 100% rate it 2-star or better is fairly interesting to me. In summary, a table with the raw data would be great!
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Can I give Rock Creek more than 3 stars? It deserves it.
Jim,
If you felt this way, why did you give 9 courses all ***? Based on Tom's clear definitions, wouldn't RCCC get *** and the rest **?
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If you are looking for 50 nominees then Dye Fore would make that list. Not near the top 10 but in the top 50.
Anthony
-
There are a dozen courses which have received one "two-star" vote, but no more have received a second two-star vote so far.
As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.
P.S. Does anybody want to pretend they are Matt Ward and vote for a dozen that I've omitted? Nobody has voted for Red Ledges or that Fazio course in Utah yet ... what's the matter with you pardners? ;)
Andy Troeger just played them so maybe he can chime in as Matt.
Glenwild is a nice Fazio course, but its not in the running for this type of list. Red Ledges is hard and pretty.
I guess since I'm posting that I'll throw my list out there:
***
Bandon Trails
Rock Creek
Pacific Dunes
**
Gozzer Ranch
Bandon Dunes
Chambers Bay
* (1/2)
Victoria National
Kingsley
Alotian
*
Black Rock
Whistling Straits
Shooting Star
Old MacDonald
Ballyneal
Paa-Ko
Ravenna
Tullymore
Colorado GC
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
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Andy,
Someone has discovered your password and is impersonating you on GCA!
If not, please tell me why you think Ballyneal and Old Mac have NO CHANCE of making it to the top 10 since 1995?
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Andy,
Someone has discovered your password and is impersonating you on GCA!
If not, please tell me why you think Ballyneal and Old Mac have NO CHANCE of making it to the top 10 since 1995?
(http://www.wineberserkers.com/images/smilies/1974_eating_popcorn.gif)
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The imposter who stole my password also saw my list and noticed that there were 9 courses built since 1995 ahead of them ;)
I like them both, but if forced to choose the others are better, IMO.
-
*** - Ballyneal, Pacific Dunes
** - Bandon Trails, Old MacDonald
* - Bandon Dunes, Whistling Straits
-
Sand Hills - ***
Pacific Dunes - **
Friars Head - **
Ballyneal - **
Bandon Trails - *
Old Macdonald - *
Bandon Dunes - *
Bayonne - *
Cal Club [should it count?] - *
Chambers Bay - *
Erin Hills - *
Victoria National - *
Wild Horse - *
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FYI,
Since so many people have cast votes on this [some on the complete ballot and some probably not], I thought I would quickly add up the results based on the votes we've received. I also added my own vote on the 22 courses I'd played.
I realize this is not scientific, but you can tell from the raw scores about which courses are more or less likely to change positions if 500 people voted. Here are the raw scores:
3.00 Sand Hills (48 stars / 16 votes)
3.00 Wolf Point (3 / 1) - though this is hardly a quorum
2.81 Pacific Dunes (90 / 32)
2.76 Ballyneal (58 / 21)
2.57 Barnbougle Dunes (18 / 7)
2.20 Cape Kidnappers (11 / 5)
2.14 Rock Creek (15 / 7)
2.08 Kingsley (25 / 12)
2.00 Castle Stuart (6 / 3)
2.00 Gozzer Ranch (4 / 2)
1.94 Old Macdonald (31 / 16)
1.92 Friars Head (23 / 12)
1.75 Chambers Bay (14 / 8)
1.75 Victoria National (7 / 4)
1.75 Wine Valley (7 / 4)
1.67 Diamante (5 / 3)
1.67 Kinloch (5 / 3)
1.67 Quarry at Giant's Ridge (5 / 3)
1.67 Sagebrush (5 / 3)
1.54 Bandon Trails (43 / 28)
1.45 Kingsbarns (16 / 11)
1.43 Whistling Straits (10 / 7)
1.40 St. Andrews Beach (7 / 5)
1.33 Lost Farm (8 / 6)
1.33 Sebonack (8 / 6)
1.33 Ballyhack (4 / 3)
1.33 Cal Club (4 / 3)
1.25 Dismal River (5 / 4)
1.24 Bandon Dunes (31 / 25)
1.10 Rustic Canyon (11 / 10)
The rest: Arcadia Bluffs 0.25, Bayonne 1.0, Colorado Golf Club 0.67, Dallas National 1.0, Erin Hills 1.0, Hidden Creek 1.0, Kauri Cliffs 0.67, Monterey Peninsula Shore 0.83, Old Sandwich 1.0, Renaissance Club 1.0, Wild Horse 0.67.
No votes cast: Calusa Pines, Nanea, Nine Bridges, Oitavos Dunes.
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Mr Doak,
Will we be doing a more scientific vote? One big omission is that some of the courses with low numbers of votes could receive "0" votes by people that have played them but did not put them on their star list. I know there is one course in the top 10 I would be giving a zero to.
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Tom,
I whipped this up last night. I really have no idea what I'm doing with HTML or Java, but this seems to do the trick. Right now, there's no functionality to automatically submit the data to e-mail or a database. In fact, I don't know how to do it to anything other than an alert box. But in most browsers (at least on a Mac), you can cut and paste from the alert box. I suggest you first try clicking on the submit button and seeing if you can cut and paste from the alert box. If you can, you can drag the eligible courses you've played over to the * boxes. If you want to get really into it, you can sort your courses within the lists. Then click submit, cut and paste the alert box information and send me an e-mail at jcolton31@gmail.com or PM. Be sure to let me know if you rank-ordered within the boxes. I can use the data under either method.
In the meantime, I'll try to at least figure out a way for the raw data to get posted on the page instead of the alert box so anybody can cut and paste it. I'm open to suggestions (this is way over my head).
http://www.dunkladder.com/sort2.html
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Mr Doak,
Will we be doing a more scientific vote? One big omission is that some of the courses with low numbers of votes could receive "0" votes by people that have played them but did not put them on their star list. I know there is one course in the top 10 I would be giving a zero to.
Mark - I didn't see you vote yet but may have missed it. You still on the road?
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Chris,
I haven't voted yet. My understanding was that we were still at the course nomination stage and the voting stage would be later.
I am still on the road, but (sadly) I am almost done. I fly home Monday morning. Fortunately, I'll be back out in 10 days to visit Jackson Hole, WY and Park City, UT!
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Chris,
I haven't voted yet. My understanding was that we were still at the course nomination stage and the voting stage would be later.
I am still on the road, but (sadly) I am almost done. I fly home Monday morning. Fortunately, I'll be back out in 10 days to visit Jackson Hole, WY and Park City, UT!
Oh, I thought Tom was tabulating results already. Holler if I can help you for access in Jackson Hole or Idaho.
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***
Ballyneal
Dismal River
Kingsley Club
Sand Hills
**
The Olde Farm
Victoria National
*
Arcadia Bluffs
Chechessee Creek
Forest Dunes
-
3.0
Sand Hills
Friar's Head
Cal Club
Boston Golf Club
Sebonack
2.0
MPCC Shore
Erin Hills
Kingsley Club
Galloway National
World Woods Pine Barrens
Hidden Creek
Old Sandwich
Kinloch
Headwaters
Bayonne
1.0
Dallas National
Mountaintop
As an editorial comment, I am shocked that Boston Golf Club is not getting any mentions...it's in my top 5 modern.
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Jim,
Based on Tom's criteria which is that a ** course represents a Top 10 Modern if you had seen them ALL then you have 15 courses in the Top 10 with no Doak courses or Bandon courses.
-
David,
I've played Sebonack, which I suppose is 1/2 a Doak.
Never been to Bandon.
Can't rate 'em if I haven't played 'em.
Jim
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Jim, I think you missed the point of David's post.
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Nope, didn't miss the point at all.
What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?
-
Nope, didn't miss the point at all.
What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?
What is the going rate for a Sleepy Bear these days?
-
Last time I checked, they were 12.95, exclusive of tax and gratuity.
To paraphrase John Maynard Keynes, "My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Sleepy Bears".
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I'll drink one for you on Thursday.
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Nope, didn't miss the point at all.
What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?
Obviously this doesn't make sense if we everyone is playing by different rules. What are we, the GolfWeek panel? Someone has nine (9) with ***.
*** - absolutely at the top of the list, or tied for it
Ballyneal
Sand Hills
** - I think these would be a top ten modern course, had I seen them all
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes
Rock Creek Cattle Co.
Rustic Canyon
* - noteworthy, but not likely among the top ten overall
Bandon Trails
Friars Head
0 - excellent but not quite in the same league as the rest.
Bandon Dunes
Hidden Creek
Kingsley Club
Monterey Peninsula (Shore)
-
Nope, didn't miss the point at all.
What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?
No, you did but go ahead and post whatever you want.
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Nope, didn't miss the point at all.
What, you want to arrest me for posting too many?
No, you did but go ahead and post whatever you want.
I thought the purpose was to nominate courses to be voted on. Perhaps Jim was suggesting that any of those ** courses he listed could make it into the eventual top 10 ranking AFTER they'd been voted on. Re-read Tom's first post and then posts #21 and #22 for, what I believe, is the clarification of the position you are putting forward.
In any event, I think a list of all *** and ** courses regardless of the number of them fits more closely with the Michelin system; which is what Tom was trying to replicate.
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Precisely.
-
3.0
Sand Hills
Friar's Head
Cal Club
Boston Golf Club
Sebonack
2.0
MPCC Shore
Erin Hills
Kingsley Club
Galloway National
World Woods Pine Barrens
Hidden Creek
Old Sandwich
Kinloch
Headwaters
Bayonne
1.0
Dallas National
Mountaintop
As an editorial comment, I am shocked that Boston Golf Club is not getting any mentions...it's in my top 5 modern.
Jim:
You can vote any way you want, of course. The good thing about polls like these is that one skewed vote isn't enough to make a lot of difference. Statistically, though, your ballot is clearly an outlier.
No one is telling you to favor the same courses that others have chosen. However, it appears that you've only played three of the courses that are currently in the top ten [Sand Hills, Friar's Head, Kingsley]. Yet you give out five *** ratings and ten more ** ratings. That's really too many for someone who has only seen three of the top ten; unless you have seen the rest of them and disagree with their inclusion, you ought to assume that some of those other courses are pretty good, and leave some room for them, too.
If you can't separate out the five you put at the top, or the ten below them, that's how you should vote. But when you take a group of ten courses that everyone else would give *, and give them all **, even though you aren't saying that any of them should be in the top ten ... that ballot doesn't really grade on the same curve as all the rest. You wind up just elevating [slightly] all of the courses you've seen, relative to the ones you haven't.
In truth, everyone votes a little too high on these sorts of polls ... that's why as of early results, it takes a unanimous ** vote or *** from somebody just to crack the top ten. But yours is certainly the outlier of those ballots taken so far.
P.S. I have not seen Boston Golf Club but was surprised it hadn't got a ** vote before yours.
-
Nominations are still open until the end of the day for any courses that people think should receive two stars or better.
-
Renaissance
Oitavos Dunes
-
Ellerston been mentioned?
-
Old Macdonald ***
Pacific Dunes ***
Friars Head ***
Rock Creek ***
Whistling Straights Straits **
Pete Dye Golf Club *
Mission Hills Haikou - Lava Fields *
Mission Hills Haikou - Blackstone *
Erin Hills *
Stone Forest Golf Club *
Bandon Trails *
Bandon Dunes *
Sebonack *
Black Wolf Run River 0
The Dunes At Shenzhou Peninsula 0
Rustic Canyon 0
Caledonia Golf & Fish Club 0
Not sure if I did this right....
-
***
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes
**
Bandon Trails
Pete Dye ('94? '95?)
Friar's Head and RCCC are upcoming but I would imagine that they're both easily **
-
*** - absolutely at the top of the list, or tied for it
Ballyneal ***
Pacific Dunes ***
Old MacDonald ***
Rock Creek Cattle Company ***
** - I think these would be a top ten modern course, had I seen them all
Wine Valley ** (I know I might be the only one but think this is a VERY GOOD golf course)
* - noteworthy, but not likely among the top ten overall
Chambers Bay *
Rustic Canyon *
Bandon Dunes *
Bandon Trails *
0 - excellent but not quite in the same league as the rest
Stone Eagle 0
Club at Black Rock 00
Tumble Creek 0
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As Mark Saltzman points out, while you can post long lists here if you like to listen to yourselves talk, the only thing that matters for now is which courses you give two stars that aren't already on the ballot.
I thought there was interest in courses left off the list?
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Two I suggest adding as at least deserving of discussion for top-10 status are:
Dye Fore -- not sure if A Gray's mention gives this the requisite two mentions
Pinnacle Point -- is Darren Clarke on here? Perhaps if he has a free minute today he could supply the second mention.
EDIT: George Peper has rang in for Pinnacle:
"The most spectacular course I have ever seen. It simply must be seen and played. The only places I can begin to compare it to are Pebble Beach and Ireland’s Old Head. But it’s set on more jaw-dropping terrain than Pebble and is a much better course than Old Head. This is extreme golf, to be sure, but it is also honest golf. There are no unreasonable assignments, no silly holes—just engaging, exhilarating ones."
-
Old Mac ***
Pac Dunes ***
Rock Creek **
Bandon Dunes **
Bandon Trails **
Sheep Ranch *
-
Two I suggest adding as at least deserving of discussion for top-10 status are:
Dye Fore -- not sure if A Gray's mention gives this the requisite two mentions
Pinnacle Point -- is Darren Clarke on here? Perhaps if he has a free minute today he could supply the second mention.
EDIT: George Peper has rang in for Pinnacle:
"The most spectacular course I have ever seen. It simply must be seen and played. The only places I can begin to compare it to are Pebble Beach and Ireland’s Old Head. But it’s set on more jaw-dropping terrain than Pebble and is a much better course than Old Head. This is extreme golf, to be sure, but it is also honest golf. There are no unreasonable assignments, no silly holes—just engaging, exhilarating ones."
Mark:
Have you been to Pinnacle Point or are you just going by the hype?
Although dramatic, I would not consider it a viable contender for the top 10 from 1995 onward.
Truthfully, if I were to nominate a modern course from South Africa, I would choose Fancourt Links, although I don't think it merits top 10 either.
Bart
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Was Blackwolf Run listed? Does it beat the 1995 tilmeline? Am I the only one who thinks its a better course than WS? Will I stop asking questions soon?
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Barnbougle Dunes ***
Pacific Dunes **
Old Macdonald **
Lost Farm **
Galloway**
Cape Kidnappers**
Bandon Trails **
Trump Bedminster Old**
Bayonne **
Applebrook*
Bandon Dunes *
Stone Eagle *
Tobacco Road *
Ballyowen*
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Was Blackwolf Run listed? Does it beat the 1995 tilmeline? Am I the only one who thinks its a better course than WS? Will I stop asking questions soon?
Mark,
I think the original BWR was built around 88-89
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Hi Bart
It's all about guilty pleasures done so right they're a movable cartball feast of filth. Efficiency over efficacy.
Would we enjoy Pinnacle even more had we hands the size of supermarket chickens, drank single malts while listening to the Stones in our Old Town flat and working out the latest criminal deeds in (where else) New Town?
To this I answer with a hearty "yes!" Sometimes the man upstairs sends us the means by which we can unburden ourselves of weighty considerations and just swing from the birches.
Regarding PP, offline a poster I'll call "Hughes" suggested this nomination was the result of my deliberately pouring beer on top of gin-punch last night.
Well, he is in error. Even at seventeen I knew better than to mix my drinks, nevermind at 40something.
Anyway...just think of our abilities to nail those long, spectacular carries at Pinnacle were we blessed with hands the size of supermarket chickens!
Although I have played it four times, sadly not with hands the size of supermarket chickens.
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Okay, nominations are now closed. I will add a few courses to get the ballot up to an even 50 -- adding Alotian, Black Mesa, Boston G.C., Ellerston, Kinloch (N.Z.), and Pinnacle Point. The final ballot:
Alotian
Arcadia Bluffs
Ballyhack
Ballyneal
Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Barnbougle Dunes
Bayonne
Black Mesa
Boston G.C.
Cal Club
Calusa Pines
Cape Kidnappers
Castle Stuart
Chambers Bay
Dallas National
Diamante
Dismal River I
Ellerston
Erin Hills
Friars Head
Hidden Creek
Kauri Cliffs
Kingsbarns
Kingsley Club
Kinloch (N.Z.)
Kinloch (Va.)
Lost Farm
Monterey Peninsula (Shore)
Nanea
Nine Bridges, Korea
Oitavos Dunes, Portugal
Old Macdonald
Old Sandwich
Pacific Dunes
Pinnacle Point, S. Afr.
Quarry at Giant's Ridge
The Renaissance Club
Rock Creek
Rustic Canyon
Sagebrush
Sand Hills
Sebonack
St. Andrews Beach
Sutton Bay
Victoria National
Whistling Straits (Straits)
Wild Horse
Wine Valley
Wolf Point
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Great, we have a ballot...so what are the specific marching orders now?
Still using stars for those we have seen according to post #1?
Thanks.
-
Jim Colton is working on a way to tabulate the votes. I will be back here and/or start a new thread once he's debugged the system.
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This should be interesting. I have played 29 of the nominations, but there are several that I have not played that could be worthy of top 10 votes. Has anyone played all 50?
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This should be interesting. I have played 29 of the nominations, but there are several that I have not played that could be worthy of top 10 votes. Has anyone played all 50?
I looked at Jim Colton's prototype (from yesterday's post). Presumably it's being refined? I think it would be useful to either have a place to specifically note that one has NOT played a course (in Jim's prototype this would be a fifth box on the right into which one could drag courses) or give instructions indicating that any course not specifically rated indicates that the voter hasn't played it. Then, following Jim Franklin's post above one could tell for each voter what their relative knowledge base is.
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This should be interesting. I have played 29 of the nominations, but there are several that I have not played that could be worthy of top 10 votes. Has anyone played all 50?
I looked at Jim Colton's prototype (from yesterday's post). Presumably it's being refined? I think it would be useful to either have a place to specifically note that one has NOT played a course (in Jim's prototype this would be a fifth box on the right into which one could drag courses) or give instructions indicating that any course not specifically rated indicates that the voter hasn't played it. Then, following Jim Franklin's post above one could tell for each voter what their relative knowledge base is.
Chris,
You would drag over all the courses you've played in one of the four boxes, therefore anything left in the original box would be considered not played.
Jim
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When does the voting close? I only ask because I'm playing a couple of nominees for the first time next week....
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If the voting is still open, i'll toss in Chambers Bay at two stars!
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When does the voting close? I only ask because I'm playing a couple of nominees for the first time next week....
Is the voting even open yet?
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If the voting is still open, i'll toss in Chambers Bay at two stars!
\
Chambers is already on the list. The voting has not started.
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My List for Post 1995 Courses that I have played:
3 Star:
Friars Head
Pacific Dunes
2 Star:
Sebonack
Kingsley Club
1 Star:
Kiawah Ocean Course
The Members Club at Aldarra
Bandon Trails
Tumble Creek
Wine Valley
Black Sheep
Pete Dye Golf Club
Bandon Dunes