Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Mark Saltzman on July 04, 2011, 10:47:49 PM
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I didn't have my camera with me for the first five holes (but I did get a couple shots of 2 as it is right by 9), so the photos will begin at 6.
Yardages are approximate since I don't have a scorecard with me, but they are from the 6900 yard black (back) tees (72.2/126 I think).
Hole 2: Par 3. 195 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/02tee.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/02green.jpg)
Hole 6: Par 4, 410 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/06tee.jpg)
Approach
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/06approach.jpg)
Green - I could see this being a 'controversial' Engh green. That ridge in the middle of the green is about 6 feet high. On another thread Mr. Doak mentioned people complaining if they could not get a putt to within 6-8 feet of the hole. From many positions to the pin I played, less than 10 feet is impossible (I dropped a ball at the top of the slope so it had zero speed and it rolled at least 10 feet past the hole).
From short
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/06greenfront.jpg)
From right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/06greenright.jpg)
From behind
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/06greenbehind.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/06greenbehind2.jpg)
Hole 7: Par 4, 410 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/07tee.jpg)
Approach from right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/07fromright.jpg)
Approach from left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/07fromleft.jpg)
Green - could be another controversial one, but really fun.
Green from right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/07greenright.jpg)
Green from left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/07greenfromleft.jpg)
Hole 8: Par 4, 425 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/08tee.jpg)
Approach from right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/08fromright.jpg)
Approach from left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/08fromleft.jpg)
From behind
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/08frombehind.jpg)
Hole 9: Par 5, 530 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/09tee.jpg)
A look back at the undulating fairway
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/09lookbackatfairway.jpg)
Approach from 250
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/09approachfrom250.jpg)
Approach from 100
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/09from100.jpg)
Short of green
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/09shortofgreen.jpg)
Green
From front
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/09green.jpg)
From right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/09fromright.jpg)
From Behind
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/09frombehind.jpg)
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Hole 10: Par 4, 365 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/AwariiDunes-10te.jpg)
Approach from right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/10fromright.jpg)
Approach from left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/10fromleft.jpg)
Green
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/10green.jpg)
Hole 11: Par 3, 190 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/11tee.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/AwariiDunes-11teered.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/11shortofgreen.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/11greenfromright.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/11greenfrombackleft.jpg)
Hole 12: Par 5, 590 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/12tee.jpg)
Second from 300ish
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/12secondshot.jpg)
Approach from 100
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/12approacj.jpg)
Short Right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/AwariiDunes-12shortofgreen.jpg)
Short left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/12frontleft.jpg)
Back right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/12backright.jpg)
Hole 13: Par 3, 105 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/13tee.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/13teered.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/13from14.jpg)
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Hole 14, Par 5, 510 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/14tee.jpg)
From 225 from Left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/14approachfromleft.jpg)
From 225 from Right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/14approachfromright.jpg)
From 100
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/14from100.jpg)
Green
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/14green.jpg)
Green from back left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/14behindgreen.jpg)
Hole 15: Par 3, 215 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/15tee.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/15tee2.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/15shortofgreen.jpg)
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/15frombackleft.jpg)
Hole 16: Par 4, 395 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/16tee.jpg)
Approach from Left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/AwariiDunes-16approachfromleft.jpg)
Approach from right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/16approachfromright.jpg)
From Short right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/16fromshortright.jpg)
From Long left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/16greenfrom17.jpg)
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Mark...
When you have the time please share your thoughts, opinions, and take on the pros and cons of the course.
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Hole 17: Par 4, 400 Yards - a darned cool hole
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/17tee.jpg)
Approach from 175
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/17approachfrom175.jpg)
Approach from 150
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/17approachfrom150.jpg)
Approach from 100
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/17from100.jpg)
From short of green
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/17shortofgreen.jpg)
From right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/17frombackright.jpg)
From behind
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/17frombehind.jpg)
Hole 18: Par 5, 615 Yards
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/18tee.jpg)
2nd from 350 from left
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/182ndshot.jpg)
2nd from 300 from right
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/182ndshotfromdownwind.jpg)
From 150
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/18from150.jpg)
From 100
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/18from100.jpg)
Short of green
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/18shortofgreen.jpg)
From behind
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/18frombehind.jpg)
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Is AD officially open? If so, have they had some rough grow-in seasons? I'm trying to understand the patches in the fairways.
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Is AD officially open? If so, have they had some rough grow-in seasons? I'm trying to understand the patches in the fairways.
Ron,
they are officially open - I believe they opened Memorial Day weekend. I was told that they have had terrible weather since they opened, including 3 inches of rain just before they opened. There were some very rough spots in the fairways, but the greens were in surprisingly good condition given their newness.
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Mark, You are a new GCA God. Your pix are amazing and your eye is better.
RM, Yes, it's been a tough spring for new growth. The amazing part is the back nine looks better than the front. And the front was seeded earlier. Since I have been there and played just a few of the holes I can tell you that the spots do not affect play, in the least. Those will grow in eventually and the course should become the gateway to the prairie links corridor.
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Awarii has just enough fairway grass but too much rough grass. A forgivable feature early in it's evolution. Good news for the payers, they are having a summer sale.
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It seems like the weather has gone against them with the significant amounts of rain they got, at the wrong time when they have to apply a larger amount of fertilizer to promote the grow in, along with the normal irrigation drift in their generally high winds, and too much runoff from the rain. That will really light up the rough with unwanted woody brush and broadleaf plants that will be all that much harder to eradicate. I wonder if controlled grass fire burns of the rough in fall or spring are a permitted activity at that particular suburban location.
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Awarii has just enough fairway grass but too much rough grass. A forgivable feature early in it's evolution. Good news for the payers, they are having a summer sale.
The fairways in many places are very, very wide. Even if the rough is too long (I didn't notice, I was in every fairway!), it still only penalizes really bad shots.
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Wow; some wild features out there. How does one pronounce "Awarii," exactly?
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Kent's a great guy. I wish him well with this venture.
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Some of those greens looked very excellent with some massive elevation differentials in them. Looks like a lot of fun putts to be had out there!
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I visited Awarii Dunes two weekends ago. Played Wild Horse in the AM and watched part of the finals of the Nebraska State Amateur take place under very firm conditions.
I would say I left with a mixed opinion of AD with full understanding that one tour and visit is not enough to understand/vet all of its features.
The course had a lot of standing water on it in spots, I'm not sure if this is a surface drainage issue or something from the grow in. It did have thunderstorms the night before but both Wild Horse and Dismal were bone dry the same day (although you cannot compare Sand Hills topography) to a course that is a long way from either of those. As some of Mark's pictures show, there are swaths of fairways missing turf or are just plain dirt so I was not sure if this is just growing pains or if the rustic motif is meant to emulate the wild conditions of NW Ireland. Having seen Yale suffer 2 of the last summers, I'm not adverse to these conditions, I'm just noting it looked like the course opened a bit early.
There were several things I liked, Engh is definitely trying to make the course fun and get people to come back using the same ball. You can hit the ball almost anywhere and find it (unless plugged) and obviously that will give many joy.
Engh disguised some features well. For example the 1st fairway bottlenecks for the 2nd shot and you have to hit over a ridge to what is actually a 90 yard or so fairway. I hit a hook and found my ball 30 yards from the native grasses well placed for my 3rd to the green.
*The pulpit green site on the 14th is a great visual and a tough 2nd shot either as a short par 5 (which the tees we played it from) or a long par 4--i think the hole is better this way.
*The course ends well with 17 and 18- I particularly liked the green site on the 18th with the chipping/bailout area on the right and the sliver of a green backed up firmly against a waste bunker.
*The course is walkable---I did ride and there is some distance from 9 green to 10 tee.
*To compare the course vs. the terrain of its West Nebraska cousins is not an argument worth having and I think it has to be viewed in isolation by itself.
I realize Jim Engh reached into his Carne/Rosapenna/Donegal pallete to design the course and be creative , but I think I would tire of the greens at some stage. The 4th and 7th double green is interesting but for the fact that the spine thru it (when approaching from the 7th hole) is very severe and to my eye pins can only be put on a diagonal there. With firm conditions playing to a limited # of pins there (and this can be said for other holes) could become an issue.
Further more all of the punchbowls/multi-tiered while fun to play and let me say I think that is Engh's ethos--be fun to play-- get old to me, because they just arent natural-esque and can alternatively punish or reward shots by caprice. They look engineered to my eye and in full disclosure I play a Raynor course as my home club. Many of the bunkers looked only roughly shaped and unfinished with firm hard pack rather than sand. They were obviously from the pictures not his usual muscle bunker forms. I am guessing the rough aesthetic is inspired by NW Ireland and they will remain this way as the course matures. There are crazy features out there and that works for some, I like quirk too, I just feel there is too much here on a low profile landform/site.
The 109y par 3 13th made little sense to me. When I saw it on the scorecard I thought it would feature a devlish tiny green. Instead there is the biggest green on the course and the least severe. What was the inspiration for this?
Overall I think the course is going to be private and thus fulfill whatever mandate a private club wants to have. I would not label Awarii Dunes from my time there as a "destination course". IE, unless I'm driving west from Omaha I would not make a special effort to seek it out, but that is solely my opinion. On Tom Doak's scale I would say AD is a 5..Nothing wrong with that, just my own opinion from a visit.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/GeoffreyC/newpixjuly003.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/GeoffreyC/newpixjuly009.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a88/GeoffreyC/newpixjuly005.jpg)
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The 109y par 3 13th made little sense to me. When I saw it on the scorecard I thought it would feature a devlish tiny green. Instead there is the biggest green on the course and the least severe. What was the inspiration for this?
NFreeman,
I had the exact same thought when I played 13. The day I played there was very little wind, so I wonder if there is normally a severe cross or down-breeze on this hole. Nevertheless, it felt very uninspired... just a way to get from 12 to 14.
I am not sure it is the flattest green on the course, 15, the next par 3 may take that title. In fact, one of the things I noticed was that many of the greens were either (1) extremely severe (like the greens on 2, 6, 7, 9, 11 and 17), or (2) extremely flat (basically all of the rest). I think this could cause a lot of debate about this golf course since many greens will be labelled 'unfair' and many others 'boring.'
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At first glance, the greens look wild and fun. The remind me of Mike Strantz greens in that you never see greens like those anywhere else.
I am not sure the course is great enough to be private. Why would they want a private course course in the middle of nowhere that is not as good as other private courses in the middle of nowhere?
How much change in elevation is there? Is one side of the course higher than the other?
I too wonder why the course lacks bunkers around the greens.
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Mark or Anyone,
How did you find the playing aspects of the bent grass vs. the other courses in the area if possible?
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Looking forward to seeing Jim's NE work. I think Jim pushes the limit, which is good for both the soul and the game.
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Jason. My impressions of the turf choice were surprisingly good. One thing for certain was its consistency. Imo, it worked.
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I had an opportunity to play Awarii Dunes last week in between my rounds at Dismal and Ballynizzle. I stayed away from this thread before the trip since I didn't want it to influence my review, but now that I have played it, I am ready to join the discussion.
I think Awarii Dunes is bold, wild, and loads of fun. It has some really interesting and wild greens that make you go "Wow" when you look at it. The fairways are pretty wide, and have some interesting movements to them. And it is true that while there is distinct lack of greenside bunkers, I think the wild contours certainly more than make up for it in interest. There are some really fun par 4's like the punch bowl 17th which was a blast to play.
I really think this course shares the same DNA with Rustic Canyon with its really interesting greens and wide (flattish) fairways. I would have never guessed this is an Engh course if I didn't know it beforehand.
However, I cannot recommend anyone to visit this course right now. It is almost unplayable by mid to high handicappers.
And I am not talking about the spotty conditions. I couldn't care less about the bald spots and standing water. Stuff like that is going to happen with brand new courses. I thought the greens were in super condition overall and rolled very smooth and true. Conditioning is not the problem...
... in the fairway. But if you venture off the fairway, there are loads of problems. First, the fairway collars are cut at about 4 to 6 inch, and I fail to see why they need to be so long. Fairways are rolling pretty well, which means even good drives may roll off low spots and roll into the collars at which point they are hard to find and difficult to hit out of, which makes little sense to me.
This is doubly troubling as any ball off the fairway is an automatic lost ball. The "natives" around the fairways are about knee high and thick as anything you will ever see. There is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE that you will find ANY ball if you don't hit the fairways. I know the fairways are pretty wild, but mid and high handicappers will still miss them, and when they do, they need not bother looking for the ball as it is impossible to find.
To put it another way, just replace the natives with water surrounding every fairway and those fairways are going to look pretty narrow even with their inherent width. But that is basically what you have at Awarii Dunes. You top a drive? Lost ball. You hit a slice? Lost ball. Missed the green on the wrong side? Lost ball. You rolled the ball 10 yards in front of you into a rough? Lost ball. You get the idea.
To make the experience even MORE painful, they have UGLY eyebrows on every bunker. I drove right down the middle on the 1st hole which hit the fairway bunker and rolled up to the eyebrows. Lost ball. I hit a couple of other side bunkers and failed to find them. Lost ball. Lost ball.
I played 27 holes and lost 18 balls (I was going to play 36, but ran out of balls). I know I am not the straightest driver around, but this was a brand new territory even for me. In comparison, I lost about 3 or 4 balls per round at Dismal and 1 or 2 at Ballyneal.
Why they refuse to cut down the rough, I don't know. But I am guessing that they wanted to keep the slope and rating high enough to attract "good" golfers (especially with such wide fairways and large greens) and this was one way to artificially raise the slope. The receptionist at the clubhouse said they do plan to burn the natives during the off-season, but why they failed to do so before the opening is puzzling to me.
If you are the type who rarely miss fairways, you will probably do just fine like Mark, but if you have any bend to your shots, you should just skip the course and save the headaches and your balls.
I don't think I will be making a trek back to Awarii any time soon (if ever). I would much rather get extra rounds at Dismal or visit Prairie Club (or just keep driving to Wild Horse).
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I would have never guessed this is an Engh course if I didn't know it beforehand.
Really? Even with three punchbowl greens on the course and the severe green undulations on 6, 7 and 9? 6 of the holes seem like trademark Engh. You're right though, the other 12 holes don't feel like Engh.
If you have any bend to your shots, you should just skip the course and save the headaches and your balls.
Am I really the only one who thinks this sentence is hilarious?
I don't think I will be making a trek back to Awarii any time soon (if ever). I would much rather get extra rounds at Dismal or visit Prairie Club (or just keep driving to Wild Horse).
Rich, most of your post (except the complaints about the long grass) seemed like you enjoyed Awarii. Did you not like the course, or is it just that you do not think it is of the same quality as the other options?
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I would have never guessed this is an Engh course if I didn't know it beforehand.
Really? Even with three punchbowl greens on the course and the severe green undulations on 6, 7 and 9? 6 of the holes seem like trademark Engh. You're right though, the other 12 holes don't feel like Engh.
If you have any bend to your shots, you should just skip the course and save the headaches and your balls.
Am I really the only one who thinks this sentence is hilarious?
I don't think I will be making a trek back to Awarii any time soon (if ever). I would much rather get extra rounds at Dismal or visit Prairie Club (or just keep driving to Wild Horse).
Rich, most of your post (except the complaints about the long grass) seemed like you enjoyed Awarii. Did you not like the course, or is it just that you do not think it is of the same quality as the other options?
Mark,
I think the part he didn't enjoy was losing so many balls and shooting what i'm guessing would be north of 110+.
I've played a course like that before (Idaho Club) where I lost tons of balls and while it was interesting the one time, I don't think i'll be going back anytime soon. In Richards case where so many epic options are now becoming abundant in that region, I'm guessing he feels the same.
P.S. I played 27 holes at Ballyneal and sprayed my ball over the place....I only lost one ball and that's because I flew the ball over a 20 foot high dune some 60 yards to the right of my intended target.
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I would have never guessed this is an Engh course if I didn't know it beforehand.
Really? Even with three punchbowl greens on the course and the severe green undulations on 6, 7 and 9? 6 of the holes seem like trademark Engh. You're right though, the other 12 holes don't feel like Engh.
If you have any bend to your shots, you should just skip the course and save the headaches and your balls.
Am I really the only one who thinks this sentence is hilarious?
I don't think I will be making a trek back to Awarii any time soon (if ever). I would much rather get extra rounds at Dismal or visit Prairie Club (or just keep driving to Wild Horse).
Rich, most of your post (except the complaints about the long grass) seemed like you enjoyed Awarii. Did you not like the course, or is it just that you do not think it is of the same quality as the other options?
Mark,
I think the part he didn't enjoy was losing so many balls and shooting what i'm guessing would be north of 110+.
I've played a course like that before (Idaho Club) where I lost tons of balls and while it was interesting the one time, I don't think i'll be going back anytime soon. In Richards case where so many epic options are now becoming abundant in that region, I'm guessing he feels the same.
P.S. I played 27 holes at Ballyneal and sprayed my ball over the place....I only lost one ball and that's because I flew the ball over a 20 foot high dune some 60 yards to the right of my intended target.
Kalen,
Funny you mention Idaho Club, I was just there today and know how you feel. I had 5 balls in my bag. It was raining when I got there so I went inside and spoke to the pro for a bit. I mentioned that I had heard the course is pretty hard. He told me I had no idea how hard it was. Earlier in the week he lost 7 balls in 9 holes.
I went to the car to get more balls.
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So how many balls did you lose today? ;D
P.S. I really liked the course, its just a tough mother!!
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Richard,
For example if you hit into the grass surrounding this bunker would there be a chance for a lost ball?
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/SaltyLaw/Awarii%20Dunes/10fromright.jpg)
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So how many balls did you lose today? ;D
P.S. I really liked the course, its just a tough mother!!
I think 6. I lost 1 on 3, 2 on 5 and 2 on 6. I was 5 balls down after 6.
I liked the course too, but like you, I have no real desire to return (it is just too hard). I found there was just no let-up on the course. If you're not playing well (I wasn't) it feels like every single tee shot could result in a lost ball. And then even if you don't lose the ball off the tee, you still have a good chance of losing one on the approach. I was really impressed by the green contouring, though I felt the green sizes were too small given the difficulty of the approaches. I will do a full photo tour at some point.
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Rich, most of your post (except the complaints about the long grass) seemed like you enjoyed Awarii. Did you not like the course, or is it just that you do not think it is of the same quality as the other options?
I wouldn't go so far as to say I enjoyed the course, Mark. I will say I appreciated the architecture. I do believe the design is quite good.
I don't even mind shooting a sky high score. That really does not bother me when rating courses. But my biggest pet peeve is lost ball. I am fine for punishing poor shots, but I don't agree it should be an automatic lost ball.
I refuse to go back because other courses in the area are much better and I don't want to reward a management that thinks roughs like this is a great way to raise a slope rating.
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So how many balls did you lose today? ;D
P.S. I really liked the course, its just a tough mother!!
I think 6. I lost 1 on 3, 2 on 5 and 2 on 6. I was 5 balls down after 6.
I liked the course too, but like you, I have no real desire to return (it is just too hard). I found there was just no let-up on the course. If you're not playing well (I wasn't) it feels like every single tee shot could result in a lost ball. And then even if you don't lose the ball off the tee, you still have a good chance of losing one on the approach. I was really impressed by the green contouring, though I felt the green sizes were too small given the difficulty of the approaches. I will do a full photo tour at some point.
The only break is when you have that par 5 and par 4 as you transition back towards the river and lower parts of the property. At least you have a little bit of space to work with. I stopped counting, but figured I shot about 115 the day I played it.
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Richard,
For example if you hit into the grass surrounding this bunker would there be a chance for a lost ball?
Yes, I lost a couple of balls hitting into a hazard just like the one in the picture. I even saw exactly where it rolled in and I could not find it.
It is unbelievably thick.
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I don't understand why you think the owners grew the rough and fescue purposely thick to raise the slope rating to seduce the better player. Do you realize that if they red staked the fescue the slope rating would go even higher while making the course easier? The thickness is simply a function of the grow in period as overspray from watering the new fairways naturally drifts.
Your premise is insulting to the owners and good players alike.
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Richard,
For example if you hit into the grass surrounding this bunker would there be a chance for a lost ball?
Yes, I lost a couple of balls hitting into a hazard just like the one in the picture. I even saw exactly where it rolled in and I could not find it.
It is unbelievably thick.
Then that's a problem but hopefully as JK says this is the result of the grow-in process and the course will be able to be maintained better when more mature.
Having said that, I think that if they are charging full price to play the course then their customers have every right to judge the course based on the conditions they encounter.
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Richard,
For example if you hit into the grass surrounding this bunker would there be a chance for a lost ball?
Yes, I lost a couple of balls hitting into a hazard just like the one in the picture. I even saw exactly where it rolled in and I could not find it.
It is unbelievably thick.
Then that's a problem but hopefully as JK says this is the result of the grown-in process and the course will be able to maintained better when more mature.
Having said that, I think that if they are charging full price to play the course then their customers have every right to judge the course based on the conditions they encounter.
David,
I was the first stay and play customer at the course. I of course payed the full rate that we agreed upon. Soon after I arrived home I received an email saying they had reduced prices for the summer. This year they are no longer charging full price or requiring a non-member stay to play.
I have no idea what the other posters paid.
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Okay, now I see what John Kavanaugh was complaining about on the other thread.
Let's talk a bit about the realities of grow-in. It's a huge, daunting task. Superintendents are trained to believe their reputations depend on the quality of their greens first, and they worry about full coverage in the fairways second. The roughs are WAY down on their list of priorities; eventually they will get back and either adjust the irrigation or mow down the areas which get too much of it, as Dismal River has done in the past year, but I have not often seen superintendents focus on this before opening day. [Ballyneal was a rare exception.] Plus, to some extent, FOOT TRAFFIC will help to thin out the near roughs, but a new course has not benefitted from any traffic yet.
I can understand why someone like Richard would be frustrated with the conditions he played in, but that should not be enough to draw the conclusions that he did -- that he would probably never go back. But, it's a very tough neighborhood, and it's imperative to build a really good course if you don't want to be passed by on the way west.
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These bunkers seem to be one of the best examples of those "natural dunesy bunkers". Most of the time I find jagged bunkers look like they were given a ton of thought, these one's look purposely shitty, but shitty in the best possible way! I dig.
The course looks bold as hell with all the contours. Could be a ton of fun, or it could be nuts!
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Richard, There's more to the story about the maintenance there, you should know, but I can't tell you (in Public). I feel like the owner deserves the right to do what he can with what he has. It will take time to get everything right. I'm pretty certain the conditions are not intended the way you characterized or surmised them.
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I had forgot but just got my handicap update today and the Course Rating and Slope for Awarii is 70.4/122. Good for me as I shot (posted) 77 and it didn't lower my already vanity handicap. We played between tornado bookends and remember hitting four iron from 150 as the greens are huge and the ground game works.
The course will clearly be a top 100 place to play in three years. There is absolutely nothing that money, time and a good set of blinders won't fix.
There was a touch of genius in Matt Ward asking slope and rating of a course. I could have saved Awarii some unwarranted speculation. Those of us who occasionally play in club events would love such a low rating on a serious course.