Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: James Boon on December 05, 2010, 06:32:04 AM
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There is always plenty of talk of Moortown's famous Gibralter hole, MacKenzie’s connection and also the 1929 Ryder Cup, but further details of the course itself seems to get overlooked for its near neighbour Alwoodley, so I was keen to see what it had to offer.
Dating back to 1910 the course does refer to itself as “An Alister Mackenzie Masterpiece”. His original layout though has changed a little over time, but here is a cigarette card of the layout from 1936 which would probably have been pretty much as MacKenzie designed it.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/Moortown.jpg)
Two new holes were added after the 5th, the famed Gibralter can be seen here as the 8th (rather than its current position as the 10th) and then the 11th (now 13th) is followed by a run of par 3, 4, 3. The first of these par 3s is omitted (the tee can still be seen on site) and the next hole played from a shorter tee but to the par 3 green beyond. The 17th also appears to be a short par 4, which is now a par 3, possibly to a new green? The reason for these changes was apparently wayward shots finding there way into the properties on the surrounding housing estates and I believe they might have reasonably recent. Perhaps someone knows who designed these news holes and when the work was done?
Its worth pointing out that they seem to be carrying out a lot of bunker works. From the noticeboard in the clubhouse the work appears to be under the guidance of Creative Golf Design and they are drawing inspiration from old photos and aerial photos of the courses bunkers. Also some new ones are being added as well as some bunkers being moved, to keep up with modern technology I suspect?
Here is the Civic Society blue plaque on the clubhouse wall
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08444.jpg)
A cold and frosty early start with the sun rising above the clubhouse, as seen from the first tee
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08445.jpg)
Hole 1
480 yard
Par 5
A relatively simple drive to start with but if you have ambitions to hit the green in two a good length drive could be flirting with trees and ditch to each side of the fairway.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08446.jpg)
Here’s the ditch on the right. There are quite a few of these around the course.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08449.jpg)
The first green was out of play due to the works to the surrounding bunkers but here a somewhat frosty view of what they have done
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08450.jpg)
Hole 2
440 yard
Par 4
Another ditch crosses the fairway running at an angle, but shouldn’t really come into play. However a couple of new bunkers have been added up the left hand side. The approach is to a green raised up slightly, that appears to have been sitting some way behind a couple of bunkers, but these have been removed with one added closer to the green on the left, but still with a little room behind. Here you can see the new bunker as well as the old one turfed over
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08453.jpg)
Hole 3
422 yard
Par 4
Called “Lone Pine” after the tree on the right, though neither it nor the bunker just short of it come massively into play. However, they do frame the drive well, or appear to as far as I could tell through the mist…
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08455.jpg)
Here is a view of the approach
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08457.jpg)
Hole 4
160 yard
Par 3
A delightful par 3 with a green set past a swathe of heather and some way beyond another small stream. The closer views of the green doesn’t really show it but there is quite a bit of undulation to the green
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08460.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08461.jpg)
Hole 5
309 yard
Par 4
The tee shot here is either a relatively straight forward layup or an aggressive shot up the left with a touch of draw to get close to the green. If taking the aggressive option its quite tight and easy to block it into the bunkers or trees up the right. Just inside the tree on the left is the aggressive line
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08462.jpg)
The short iron approach or pitch to the well guarded green
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08465.jpg)
Hole 6
402 yard
Par 4
This is the first of the new holes. A longish dogleg right par 4 played over some decent rolling terrain, mainly in the landing area of the drive, but all in all nothing too memorable.
Hole 7
468 yard
Par 5
Another new hole, a dogleg left this time, and a short par 5. The fairway in the driving area cambers around the corner a little, with again some rolling terrain that can make for interesting stances unless you find a small flat area perfect for going for the green in two. The main obstacle towards the raised up green is a large tree short left of the green
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08473.jpg)
A view from the 7th green through the trees to the 10th hole… Gibralter.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08474.jpg)
Hole 8
171 yard
Par 3
A walk through the trees to the tee of the par 3 8th, slightly uphill to another undulating green. And the mist was finally clearing!
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08475.jpg)
Hole 9
440 yard
Par 4
The tees on the 9th pushed through the trees towards the boundary, where you can see how close the houses get to the course in places
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08480.jpg)
A downhill drive with the main trouble being a ditch on the right
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08477.jpg)
A long approach shot to a green that sits in front of some of the more open moorland / heathland at this end of the course. There is plenty of room to the left to run one in.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08484.jpg)
So that’s the front nine, par 36 and 3,292 yards from the yellow tees.
Cheers,
James
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Hole 10
157 yard
Par 3
The famous Gibralter hole, so named because the green site is built up on a rocky outcrop. It was created by MacKenzie to give prospective members an idea of the course they would be buying into before they could afford to build the remainder of the course. It did originally play as the 17th, when the current 11th was the original 18th, which is why that hole is now named “Old Clubhouse”. Then when the clubhouse moved to the new site, it played as the 8th, before the recent revisions to the layout moved it to its current position as the 10th hole.
I recall some reference to the large front left bunker being rebuilt recently and not being as severe as it once was? Also some people refer to this hole having comparisons to the Redan? Well I can see where they are coming from but not for me. The hole does seem to set up for a drawn approach shot but the middle to back right of the green here is a reasonable hole location, whereas on the Redan that part of the green is all sloping down to the back left. Apparently MacKenzie hadn’t seen the Redan when he built this hole so any potential similarities are a coincidence, but Alison created a Gibralter hole at Timber Point on Long Island though I’m not sure if there are any other copies?
Here is the view from the tee
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08493.jpg)
Here is the front left bunker, and you can see the hint of slope towards the back left
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08495.jpg)
And the bunkers up the right, ready to catch you if your draw doesn’t quite work out
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08494.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08497.jpg)
The slopes on the green start to become apparent
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08496.jpg)
Here is the run off area all along the back edge of the green, which would make for a tricky up and down if you go long from the tee
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08498.jpg)
The view from behind the green
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08499.jpg)
And finally a view looking back towards the green from the 11th tee.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08500.jpg)
Cheers,
James
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Hole 11
361 yard
Par 4
A blind drive to a fairway that is pretty close to the out of bounds up the left and more houses. A fantastically sculpted bunker is ready and waiting for anything short right
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08504.jpg)
Hole 12
542 yard
Par 5
The longest hole on the course, but a sliver of heather and rough crosses the fairway about 240 yards from the yellow tees, so a player needs to decide to lay up or take there chances with a decent lie to possibly go for the green in two.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08510.jpg)
The second shot is played downhill so in summer there is probably some assistance in getting near to the green
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08513.jpg)
Hole 13
420 yard
Par 4
Back up the hill to the top of the moorland and another blind drive to a pretty open fairway with no bunkers. Here’s the tee marker
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08515.jpg)
The hole is then pretty flat until the green where the land slopes to the right, so the ideal run in from the left must miss this little chap
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08517.jpg)
Hole 14
375 yard
Par 4
This hole plays a bit shorter than its yardage due to the second being downhill, but you may want to keep your tee shot back from the bunker and also the trees on the right which narrow the fairway
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08519.jpg)
Hole 15
365 yard
Par 4
Even with all the bunkers this is a pretty open tee shot
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08520.jpg)
On the left there is a dinky little bunker hiding behind the main fairway bunker
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08522.jpg)
The approach shot to another well contoured green is over a heather clad bunker which is actually some 20 or 30 yards short of the green. That, and the uphill nature of the approach make it tricky
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08523.jpg)
Hole 16
402 yards
Par 4
A downhill drive which needs to hug the large tree on the left to avoid running out of fairway and into the crossing ditch
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08525.jpg)
A view of the green from short right, with some more of the houses that surround the course
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08527.jpg)
Hole 17
142 yards
Par 3
A long but reasonably narrow green here, plenty of bunkers again and plenty of interest in the green itself with quite a prominent tier. Two tier greens in the north and Midlands are often referred to as MacKenzie greens, so I wonder if with the revised layout this is a new green and a somewhat literal translation of the perceived ideas of MacKenzie?
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08528.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08529.jpg)
Hole 18
419 yards
Par 4
Almost home, and the drive here needs some concentration.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08530.jpg)
Everything slopes to the right with plenty of bunkers to catch anything that runs there way, but a long drive up the left would leave the ideal approach
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08532.jpg)
So the back nine is 3,183 to a par of 35, giving totals of 6,475 par 71 from the yellows. The course can be stretched to a somewhat convenient 7,001 yards which plays to a standard scratch score of 74.
At first the course feels like its over pretty flat land, with the interest coming from the position of the bunkers, but as the round progresses you start to discover the more hilly nature of the terrain over the area that was know as Black Moor before the course and its surrounding houses were built.
I thoroughly enjoyed the course and hope to get back on a less misty day to get some better pictures. Everyone I’ve spoken to prefers Allwoodley so I cant wait to get over there next time I’m in the area.
Cheers,
James
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James
Thanks for posting, great to see. The bunkers that they are filling in (2nd ?), are they original bunkers ?
Ditches - interested in your view as to whether MacKenzie disguised the ditches at all by raising the near side and lowering the far side so as to hide it. Did you notice at all ?
Niall
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James,
Thanks for this excellent photo tour and commentary. It's nice to see these places as they are in real weather. The last time I was there was in mid winter and it looked very much as it does in your photos, so it brings back true memories. At that time (ca 2000) they were altering holes at the top end of the course - danger of litigation from home owners - and I remember that there was a short hole still there, but abandoned. Very sad. I think the club made those changes in house with advice from the professional. I have a feeling that the two new holes after the 5th were by Donald Steel, but I might be imagining things.
They had to rope construction workers together so as not to drown in the bogs and I seem to recall that some piece of equipment - a tractor or something - sank in so far that it couldn't be recovered.
Mark.
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Great photos - particularly the first one, which could almost be a painting above the fireplace of a country pub - if it had a pack of hounds and a few huntsmen tearing across the middle!
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg157/dantovey/DSC08446.jpg)
I've never been to Moortown, but as a new MacKenzie convert I will certainly be looking to get there soon. This may be heresy, but from the photos it looks a more interesting course than Alwoodley.
Cheers
Duncan
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Duncan, I loved the one round I played at Alwoodley five years ago. The feeling of Mackenzie is alive and vibrant. The land has a lot of subtle movement and the layout of the individual holes within the superb routing still works 103 years after the course opened.
I didn't have time to play Moortown, so can only reflect on what I've heard, which is that the land is not as good, the drainage is not as good, and the surrounding housing development has required substantial changes to the layout over the years, as mentioned by Boony in his nice tour.
Alwoodley is virtually unchanged, a true example of Mackenzie's genius. I found it a golf course that holds its relevance today although it's probably not nearly long enough to challenge today's longest hitters.
The 11th at Alwoodley is similar to Gibralter and is a great hole also with strong right to left slopes.
Hopefully you will get to play both courses and be able to make a real side-by-side comparison.
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I certainly intend to, Bill.
I'm lucky enough to be a member at another virtually unchanged MacKenzie course, Reddish Vale, and it has spurred me on to find out more about him and his work.
Which in turn led me to GCA...
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Thanks for the great report James. Bookmarked.
I've done searches for pictures of Moortown GC (inYorkshire, ENGLAND!) and its routing but could never find a complete presentation, nor one with such mystical pictures.
About the par 3 Gibraltar 10th . . .
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08493.jpg)
Can you please tell us about the contours and how you think the hole should be played for different pin placements? Is it flexible? What strategic insight can you give us? What makes Gibraltar famous besides being one of the first constructed greens?
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/MacKenzie_Moortown_Gibraltar.png/800px-MacKenzie_Moortown_Gibraltar.png)
Also, are they finished with the bunker trimming work as the original, to me, with the flashed faceslooks more dramatic and ties in well with the bunker style on the right.
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James,
Thanks for the great pictorial tour.
Moortown is a very welcoming club and the course was really well presented on my visit.
The trees on the perimeter does stop the housing from being a big negative. There are some interesting elevation changes particularly on the back nine.
Great place to visit especially being so close to Alwoodley.
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James,
Thanks for the great pictorial tour.
Moortown is a very welcoming club and the course was really well presented on my visit.
The trees on the perimeter does stop the housing from being a big negative. There are some interesting elevation changes particularly on the back nine.
Great place to visit especially being so close to Alwoodley.
Ash, as you've played both, how would you comparebthe two courses?
Duncan, I wish we' played Reddish Vale after the .2006 Buda Cup (hoylake, Wallasey) but we chose to play a mini Herbert Fowler tour -- Delamere Forest and Beau Desert -- instead. I've been impressed with what I've seen of Reddish Vale. I think Csavendish is also close tonyou, right?
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James Boon - I love the cigarette card layout.
I have posted these in the past. I think these were about October 2005.
I recall the bunker on two that is now filled in - it was visually intimidating, but actually smaller than it looked. I understand why the bunker would be relocated, but am still a little disappointed.
Anyway - 3rd...
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/Moortown/Holiday073.jpg)
Gibralter study..
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/Moortown/Holiday085.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/Moortown/Holiday086.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/Moortown/Holiday087.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/Moortown/Holiday088.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/Moortown/Holiday089.jpg)
James B
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Bill,
From my memory Alwoodley is much more open, the trees are more on the perimeter of the course and the perimeter feels further away. The difference in the land is marked which is interesting considering how close together they are, Alwoodley more of a heathland feel to it. Alwoodley has more changes in direction, Moortown a little more straightforward if you will pardon the expression.
Both are really good to play and I would jump at a second chance.
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Thanks for the lovely pics, Mr. Boon. I wish this style of design and these types of properties (gentle rolls, sandy loam, heather) were more common stateside.
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James,
Great tour. Another one that got away, but next time I am in the Baildon Butcher's neck of the woods I will make sure to play it.
Duncan,
Alwoodley plays a lot better than it photographs. Not that it photographs poorly, but there is a hell of a lot of subtlety out there that the camera lens totally misses. Holes the quality of 4, 5, 8, 10, 11, 14, 15 and 16 at Alwoodley are rare. Courses with as many holes that good, rarer still.
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I’m glad everyone enjoyed the tour, but I’m starting to think I should cut down the number of photos as the thread takes forever to load!
Niall,
Interesting question regarding the ditches. I don’t recall them being built up on the approaching side, and have checked a few other pictures I didn’t post and none really show it. Is this something MacKenzie did elsewhere?
Mark,
Your comment about the boggy nature of the ground during the recent works is interesting. It was a really wet weekend following a really wet week, when I played and apart from the water in the bunkers that can be seen in a couple of photos, it was good conditions underfoot.
Slag,
I mention Gibralter as a famous hole as its pretty much the only thing I was aware of the course before playing. Not easy to give a definitive description of the green contours on the back of one play, but I’ve only played Redan once and that seemed fairly straightforward.
I would say a back left hole location does accept a drawn approach well, but you should be able to pitch it on the green. Back right and you probably want a soft fade to keep it below the hole? Anything on the front and there is a small area of fairway you could run the approach in on.
As for the flashed bunker faces I’m not sure if they’ve finished yet, but it would be good to see the front left bunker on Gibralter revert back to that style, even though I don’t mind it as it is at present.
Ash,
I suspect that the surrounding houses are less intrusive in the summer months when the trees are in full leaf.
Its fair to say that having enjoyed Moortown I can’t wait to get to Allwoodley to compare the two!
Cheers,
James
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While I remember, here are several photos of the bunker work being carried out. Firstly to the left of the 11th green
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08505.jpg)
And some of the turf from the area being kept behind the green ready to be replaced
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08508.jpg)
This is the bunker on the 12th about 100 yards short of the green. the pictures in the clubhouse showed this in its original form, and several other existing or proposed bunkers have been marked in this way with the white lines
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08511.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2010%2011%20Moortown/DSC08512.jpg)
Cheers,
James
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Duncan, I wish we' played Reddish Vale after the .2006 Buda Cup (hoylake, Wallasey) but we chose to play a mini Herbert Fowler tour -- Delamere Forest and Beau Desert -- instead. I've been impressed with what I've seen of Reddish Vale. I think Csavendish is also close tonyou, right?
Cavendish is maybe 20 miles away.
Any GCAer who fancies a game at Reddish Vale just give me a call. It's on me!
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Boony
Thanks for the tour. After all these years and a badly faded memory, Moortown looks better than I had imagined it would. How are the greens? Do they have any decent internal movement?
Ciao
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How are the greens? Do they have any decent internal movement?
Sean
my memory is that there are a variety of greens surfaces. The first 7 holes (ie 5 original and 2 new holes) are all quite flat. If you leave yourself 50 yards from the green, your approach will be quite difficult as the green won't give you any assistance.
Then, you play the long par 3 8th and a really rumply-pumply green is presented. Similarly for Gibralter at #10. And hole #13 (longish 4) has surprising left to right fall. Then 15 is two-tiered, and 18 has a lot of slope (don't get above the hole).
Moortown has a mix of flattish and movement greens. Not a lot in between. From my memory banks 5 years ago.....
James B
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Moortown is a good course. I don't think there's any debate that of Yorkshire's 170+ courses Ganton is top. After that Alwoodley, Moortown and Lindrick fight it out for 2nd, 3rd and 4th. None is absolutely unchanged. MacKenzie himself made changes at Alwoodley (moved the 6th green, for instance) and left the seed of the idea for the new 10th and 11th holes completed in the 1920s. The bunkers are nothing like what they were in MacK's day, but they couldn't be - they must have been a nightmare to maintain, although they weren't maintained much in those days and, so, must have been a nightmare to play from. Moortown and Lindrick have been forced to make architectural changes for health and safety reasons.
I should be interested to learn from those familiar with Yorkshire golf which course might come 5th behind these four.
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Mark is right, Ganton is a comfortable number 1 but then it is likely the bast inland course in the country, let alone county. For me, though, Alwoodley is a very comfortable number 2. Clearly superior to Moortown in my book. Moortown is a very good course but I have never loved playing there the way I love playing at Alwoodley or Ganton. Part of this may be down to the greens, which are more interesting at Alwoodley but, I think, mostly down to the land. Despite their proximity I think Alwoodley is on better ground both in terms of contour and in terms of playability
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I’m glad everyone enjoyed the tour, but I’m starting to think I should cut down the number of photos as the thread takes forever to load!
Niall,
Interesting question regarding the ditches. I don’t recall them being built up on the approaching side, and have checked a few other pictures I didn’t post and none really show it. Is this something MacKenzie did elsewhere?
James
Regarding the ditches, I've got a bit of a theory that MacKenzie hid his ditches/burns in the same way he hid his trenches during the first world war. There's a couple of obvious examples at Pitreavie and some less obvious work at Erskine. MacKenzies work at both those courses date from early to mid 1920's. I know he got the idea about camouflaging trenches from the Boers so I thought he might have done it before the war as well.
Niall
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These pictures bring back great memories. I played there in the late 80's in a tournament and we were hitting long irons into all the par 4's and the par 3's. I remember thinking how good the course was and how brutally tough it was back then with the old equipment. Actually they had just finished the new holes on the front side, 5 and 6 I think. Five was a tough dogleg right and 6 was the new par 5 with a huge tree in the middle of the fairway if I think. Then you went to the par 3 7th uphill slightly which was always a 3 iron/5 wood!!!
The entire day was a bruiser from the tips and you went home mentally worn out but full of readiness for tomorrow.
As far as the next best courses after the top four.....I pulled up a list of a 190 clubs and it is a toss up. You could throw Cleveland in there, Huddersfield Golf Club, Fulford, Leeds Golf Club (Cobble Hall), Headingley, York (Strensall) and I'm sure I missed some.
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Mark is right, Ganton is a comfortable number 1 but then it is likely the bast inland course in the country, let alone county. For me, though, Alwoodley is a very comfortable number 2. Clearly superior to Moortown in my book. Moortown is a very good course but I have never loved playing there the way I love playing at Alwoodley or Ganton. Part of this may be down to the greens, which are more interesting at Alwoodley but, I think, mostly down to the land. Despite their proximity I think Alwoodley is on better ground both in terms of contour and in terms of playability
I don't know Ganton, but otherwise, +1.
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How are the greens? Do they have any decent internal movement?
Ciao
Sean, I certainly remember the 8th green being quite interesting regarding internal contours as I went on to tell my brother about the NLE green at Sitwell Park as we were playing the next hole, and a few others were also interesting. However I recall most being flat or with a single slope across the green.
Niall,
Interesting theory regarding the ditches. Certainly worth further investigation.
Cheers,
James
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Thanks for the great photos. I have always liked this course quite a bit but sadly have played it far fewer than I would like. After seeing these I must change that very soon. Thanks for bringing back great memories and fanning the flames of another visit hopefully in the near future. Ganton, Alwoodley, Moortown. What a wonderful way to live life to the fullest. There is just something about them that bring a warm feeling to my heart.
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Boony,
Thanks for posting this photo tour. It may take a while to load, but it's worth it, especially all those of the Gibraltar hole. The story of that being a demo hole is fantastic. Would be an interesting exercise to look at other courses we like and pick out which hole would best serve that same sort of purpose.
With but one trip a year to England I'm never going to see all of these courses.
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I just completed a small MacKenzie North Yorkshire "study" tour this weekend…
Four courses: Sand Moor, Moortown, Ilkley & Alwoodley…
In short, Moortown met and surpassed expectations… Ken Moodie’s bunker work was to my liking and the course had a more open heath feel than I was expecting (although not so much as nearby Alwoodley)…
Knowing that Gibralter had originally been the eighth, it was quite easy to work out that the current 6th and 7th were the new additions… They have been cut through the woodland and are both good holes if a little more enclosed… 6 plays to a lovely raised green against the angle of play and I could swear that they have cleared all the trees behind the 7th green since James took the photo’s above… That green now sits quite prettily…
The major let down with the course is the sardine effect of 11, 12, 13 & 14… You could see where there was a par-3 previously (now confirmed by the cigarette card above) and it’s interesting to note that the final one of these holes (14) used to be a 4 and then a 3 because I did feel the green site felt a little squashed in…
These holes are quite good in themselves (albeit with 2 blind drives and 2 blind approaches) but heading back up that hill away from the clubhouse again on 13 was slightly demoralising…
Still, the course had a variety of very good to excellent holes… Gibraltar was the pick of the one-shotters but they were all good… There were a variety of approach bunkers adding deception… It was playing very firm and fast (recent drainage works are still obvious and bedding in)… Green sites and undulations offered different challenges also… Perhaps my favourite hole of the bunch was 18 which was reminiscent (but better) of the closing hole at Blairgowrie Rosemount…
Maybe I’ll start a quick comparison thread between the 4 courses I saw…
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Ally,
Thanks for bumping this thread. I'd like to hear your comparison of the courses you visited.
Interesting that you mention Blairgowrie's Rosemount as I was there recently and am just putting the finishing touches to a photo tour and history which I hope to post shortly. I can see where you are coming from comparing both courses last holes, a similar feel indeed but Moortown's plays a lot longer!
Cheers,
James
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Hi James,
I've just been doing some website checking... It appears 6 & 7 were added in 1989, presumably at the same time as 12,13,14 were altered?... If that is so, what work was supposed to have been done around 1999 / 2000?...
Looking at their website, it is also abundantly clear that there has been tree-clearing taking place (they could just do with a little widening and strategising on 6 & 7 now)... It also makes perfect sense that the old 1st would have been the current 12th, breaking up that area of the course which is a little bit of a drag... I think it would have played better with the original routing for sure...
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Hi Ally,
I played Alwoodley in March this year. Ken Moodie (I think) has been involved in reworking/reshaping the bunkers. Hole 18 was recently done and it looks impressive. Playing Sandmoor in 2 weeks time - it would be good to see your comments prior to playing it.
Cheers
Ben
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In respect of the Alwoodley work, if people will forgive me the plug... http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Root/Homeactualpage/Articlesactualpage/Article/tabid/70/ItemId/2090/Default.aspx (http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Root/Homeactualpage/Articlesactualpage/Article/tabid/70/ItemId/2090/Default.aspx)