Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Duncan Cheslett on November 29, 2010, 01:47:42 AM
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I chanced upon this interesting little site yesterday;
http://www.thewalkinggolfer.com
It campaigns to get golfers walking again rather than riding round in golf carts - or 'buggies' as we Europeans know them.
As I browsed I becamee more and more incredulous. Is it really true that many courses in the USA prohibit walking and that use of a cart is mandatory?
I can understand that if you are an octagenarian or have just had a hip replacement a golf cart might be rather handy, but what self-respecting reasonably able-bodied golfer would ride in a cart in preference to walking the course?
And what of the effect on the courses? They must be built with blacktop roadways criss-crossing here and there! My club has 4 carts for hire which are rarely used and the damage is bad enough; multiply that by 10 and the consequenses are mind blowing!
Are new courses all built with the assumption that hundreds of carts will be using them every day? What about the old courses?
Surely a bit of excercise is one of the main reasons for playing golf. If this about mandatory cart use is true then it does nothing to diminish the popularly held stereotype this side of the pond of Americans being fat and lazy!
Personally, I think real men carry their clubs too. Even trolleys are for wimps...
;)
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Duncan,
Welcome to the site. I hope you've met Melvyn, and if not you should.
Also that website is run by a fellow GCAer (I believe) so rest assured your sentiments are not alone.
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Duncan - I am going to get on with you. Just let people use carts if they want and walk if they want.
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What about more of these instead of carts? No paths necessary and I can tell you they're fun as hell (no, I haven't tried them on a golf course).
(http://www.gadgetking.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/image-thumb7.png)
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Alex they are no good where do you keep your beer? :-*
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What about more of these instead of carts? No paths necessary and I can tell you they're fun as hell (no, I haven't tried them on a golf course).
(http://www.gadgetking.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/image-thumb7.png)
Will they work on hilly and mountainous courses? I'm wondering it they are safe/stable enough for that type of terrain.
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Alex they are no good where do you keep your beer? :-*
Geez do I have to spell it out?
(http://foodcourtlunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/beer-hat.jpg)
Jim,
Yes they work on slopes like that, though not through sandy soil. They're incredibly safe and for most people it's difficult to fall when on them even if you try.
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Welcome to the site Duncan.
I take it you are not a fan of Dale Carnegie? ;)
“Golf combines two favourite American pastimes: taking long walks and hitting things with a stick.”
PJ O’Rouke
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Duncan
"If God had intended man to ride he would have given him wheels instead of legs"
Melvyn
PS Link to The Walking Golfer http://www.thewalkinggolfer.com/why_i_walk.html
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"If God had intended man to ride he would have given him wheels instead of legs"
Melvyn
The same logic suggests God would have given us clubs instead of arms.
He wouldn't have given us a brain, either. We use that to build tools that make things easier for us.
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If God had wanted man to pay a cart fee he would not have invented the Scots.
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“God invented the Scots - and in turn the Scots invented Golf for their recreational pleasure, Whisky for their drinking pleasure and the Bagpipes for their listening pleasure!!!”
Not to explode the Myth - but to prove there is an exception for every rule.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/johncs/GleneaglesCarts.jpg)
This is the Cart Park at Gleaneagles where it’s been rumoured the “Stretched-Carts” come with fancy girls and magnums of champagne in buckets of ice.
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Jim
You are now just being silly. But as for brains he clearly was not that generous as so many have to use distance aids when play golf. Poor sods just do not have the ability to judge distances – but worst still have no faith in their own judgement – what does that say about an individual
Only the mentally corrupt can take a honest and decent game like golf to its current state.
The real virtues of the game lie in the Walking and Thinking and the ability of Man to rise to the challenges. Who in their right mind tries to destroy the very essence of the game they say they love.
Get off your backsides and throw away your toys, play the Royal and Ancient Game of Golf by Walking and Thinking . 8)
Melvyn
PS Gleneagles offers golf to the internationl set. :'(
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Heavy sigh. Live and let live. Que sera sera. Be nonchalant. Trust Poliakoff.
Ciao
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Duncan -
Supply and demand my friend.
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Duncan:
Rob Rigg, GCAer, owns and runs the Walking Golfer website. It's a great site with a ton of information, I suggest surfing through the information on the various tabs.
I'm a member of the Walking Golfer Society, however I don't have a narrow mind against others if they decide to take a cart unlike many others on GCA. To each their own.
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Sean
I thought that cheating on a golf course was one of the Deadly Sins.
You ride, you are cheating as you are resting while others walk - noting that Golf is a Walking Game
Aids – using outside aids can also be defined as cheating as your skill levels and abilities do not truly matching your score – it being achieved by outside aids.
LIVE AND LET LIVE - are you suggesting a new charter for cheats - Its either Right or Wrong, tradition and the many years of the modern game shows carts and distance aids are new introductions into the game. The real question is where are you willing to draw the lline?
Melvyn
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Melvyn
I am less concerned about the rules of golf than I am about the enjoyment of golf. If that makes me a cheater or a cheater lover I am okay with that. While I don't like to see people ride when its not necessary, I don't like to see carts parked alongside a clubhouse (same for cars) and I don't like to see cart courses built, I can live with the idea that this is part of enjoying the game (or even making it possible to play) for some. I can always choose not to play at cart courses if I like. Afterall, choice is one of the great things about living where we do.
Ciao
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Sean
I can't fault that.
Great for those who need carts to get around, but otherwise we have the start of rot that penetrates every part until no substance is left and a slight on shore wind may finish it off. I feel a stand does indeed need to be taken, as with the roll back of the ball and to a point reform of our Governing Bodies instead of changes to our great golf courses. Change are required now but apathy rules and many will get what they deserve, perhaps by seeing the clubs becoming more private and harder to access.
It’s the Game that matters, not me, but I sense you have underlying concerns that you do not tend to voice.
Melvyn
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Of all the innocent mistakes that a newbie can make, setting up Melvyn with a softball like this surely takes the biscuit.
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Lets not contribute anymore to this thread, its a stupid continous argument unwinnable by anyone.
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Alex,
Here is my host (and in-laws' neighbor) at his club in Idaho. He had a ramp in the back of his SUV to roll it in and out:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Misc%20Idaho%20golf/p10segway.jpg)
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Scott and Alex,
Beware of the Segway!!!!
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/27/segway-inc-owner-rides-over-cliff-to-his-death/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+weblogsinc/engadget+(Engadget)
"UK businessman Jimi Heselden, the man who believed in the Segway so much that he went ahead and bought the company, has died after reportedly driving a ruggedized version of the scooter off a cliff and into a river. He was found early on Sunday morning in the River Wharfe, having earlier been touring his estate in the personal transporter. The cause of the accident is not yet known. Mr. Heselden was 62 years old"
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Seriously Duncan, I would suggest strongly that you do some searching before posting a new topic. As other have said Walking Golfer is a pretty well known entity around here and this topic has been hashed to death many times before (all within last several months).
I know you are new here, but really...
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This thread's been viewed 400 times Richard. More than a few are paying attention.
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Any car wreck is going to generate rubbernecks, does not mean it is worthwhile. Can we give this topic at least a six-month break?
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Duncan
Great topic, it’s at the heart of the modern game, but this lot are mainly interested in the top 50 or 100 clubs. GCA has sod all to do with some on here and we waste pages on lists and Rankings of clubs which has zero to do with GCA.
You have every right to voice your opinion, just as much right as those who don’t want to talk about it.
Many are not interested in golf, design, or history, as long as they can ride, drink and not use their little brains they are happy. Their friends will walk, but they care not about others as long as they get what they want.
Golf has no place for carts (for the fit), if the Authorities had Balls they would do something about it - as for our fellow members they forget that there is an on off button and also they have no need in posting on a subject not to their interest. But you will learn many are nasty on this site.
I have many friend here but they believe in the freedom of speech, opinions and belief which is how it should be. Be your own Man and welcome.
Melvyn
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Richard
I take it that you still do not take your own advice i.e. 'do some searching' ;)
Good to see you posting again, even on this topic ;D
Melvyn
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Freedom of speech, of course, also includes the right to say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, again.
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Any car wreck is going to generate rubbernecks, does not mean it is worthwhile. Can we give this topic at least a six-month break?
A little testy after that OhioSt. beatdown, Richard?
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Richard,
It beats reading another what are you reading thread. These walking threads actually help out my mind set when I find myself either paired or stuck behind a group of walkers. It is important for us all to be reminded that not everyone walks and carries their own just because they are cheap.
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Seriously Duncan, I would suggest strongly that you do some searching before posting a new topic. As other have said Walking Golfer is a pretty well known entity around here and this topic has been hashed to death many times before (all within last several months).
I know you are new here, but really...
I might be new here, but I am no newcomer to internet forums.
I did several searches for relevent terms before starting the thread, and nothing came up. On the basis of this, I assumed that the topic had not been covered.
Perhaps the search facility needs looking at...
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Duncan,
Don't worry for a second. We're glad you're here, whether you walked here or came in a cart!
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I know of a couple who died driving their buggy into a ravine in Spain, however I personally know several golfers who've died walking around the course from heart attacks so I guess walking is more dangerous for your health!! ;)
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Out of curiosity, what is the policy on walking vs. riding at most of the golf resorts in Spain & Portugal?
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Seriously Duncan, I would suggest strongly that you do some searching before posting a new topic. As other have said Walking Golfer is a pretty well known entity around here and this topic has been hashed to death many times before (all within last several months).
I know you are new here, but really...
I might be new here, but I am no newcomer to internet forums.
I did several searches for relevent terms before starting the thread, and nothing came up. On the basis of this, I assumed that the topic had not been covered.
Perhaps the search facility needs looking at...
Search for walkinggolfer.com
Thanks
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Seriously Duncan, I would suggest strongly that you do some searching before posting a new topic. As other have said Walking Golfer is a pretty well known entity around here and this topic has been hashed to death many times before (all within last several months).
I know you are new here, but really...
I might be new here, but I am no newcomer to internet forums.
I did several searches for relevent terms before starting the thread, and nothing came up. On the basis of this, I assumed that the topic had not been covered.
Perhaps the search facility needs looking at...
Search for walkinggolfer.com
Thanks
Or just look at Melvyn's posts...
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Duncan
Great topic, it’s at the heart of the modern game, but this lot are mainly interested in the top 50 or 100 clubs. GCA has sod all to do with some on here and we waste pages on lists and Rankings of clubs which has zero to do with GCA.
You have every right to voice your opinion, just as much right as those who don’t want to talk about it.
Many are not interested in golf, design, or history, as long as they can ride, drink and not use their little brains they are happy. Their friends will walk, but they care not about others as long as they get what they want.
Golf has no place for carts (for the fit), if the Authorities had Balls they would do something about it - as for our fellow members they forget that there is an on off button and also they have no need in posting on a subject not to their interest. But you will learn many are nasty on this site.
I have many friend here but they believe in the freedom of speech, opinions and belief which is how it should be. Be your own Man and welcome.
Melvyn
Thank you Melvyn,
I really didn't realise I was opening such a can of worms!
I should emphasise that I come from a golfing culture where carts are pretty well alien. Most clubs have a few for use by elderly members and visitors or by those with health problems, but by and large no-one in my part of England rides a cart.
I hope that you can understand then, my shock and surprise at discovering that cart usage in America is not only de rigeur but in some cases mandatory. I connect golf carts with Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Ronald Reagan - I never imagined that 'ordinary' golfers ever used them!
I would like to be fair minded and non-judgemental on this; however, I agree completely with Melvyn. Golf carts have no place in the game for anyone able to walk the course. I always thought that golf was a sport. If people use carts then it just proves this guy to be right...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv3WsAj0aVY
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Search for walkinggolfer.com
Thanks
I just did.
One page of results - ALL from this thread!
In other words, no results at all from any previous threads...
...ever!
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Duncan:
The search function is a strange one, I guess. When I search for thewalkinggolfer I get two pages of results.
Melvyn:
as for our fellow members they forget that there is an on off button and also they have no need in posting on a subject not to their interest. But you will learn many are nasty on this site.
The lack of self-awareness is staggering.
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Duncan
The topic has been covered many times. The poor search results speak more to the search engine than to how many times the topic has been covered.
No real issue if some want to go over it yet again If you are not interested in the topic you can skip it.
As to what are you reading the content does change as different books are being read, On this topic the lines have been drawn. Highly unlikely Mr Morris would ever ride in a cart or agree that others can.
John
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Duncan
The topic has been covered many times.
Can someone please link me to a thread where this topic has been covered? I've spent the evening searching but still cannot find one!
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Duncan,
I think I see the problem with your search. Don't search using the search box above as it will search only this page. Click on the small looking glass to the left of the box. This will take you to the advanced search. Good luck.
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Check out this hard-to-believe anecdote from a recent visit to Biloxi, MS:
Showed up in the morning at a high-end daily fee, and wandered towards the range. Older starter says, "hit some balls for awhile, I'm gonna send out these 8 fellows first."
I had a PM tee time elsewhere, maybe 30 minutes away, so I said, "if you don't mind, I'll skip the warm-up, and jump out ahead of these 2 groups."
He says, "you can't go ahead of those guys, you are walking, They'll be much faster because they're in carts." I was dumbfounded for a sec, and then I said," just let me out ahead of them, and I'll keep up the pace, I promise." He said, "well, OK, but I'll need you to step aside if you are holding them up!"
Needless to say, I never saw them once I walked off the first green....and how can a fellow who woeks at a GC be so incredibly clueless?
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Check out this hard-to-believe anecdote from a recent visit to Biloxi, MS:
Showed up in the morning at a high-end daily fee, and wandered towards the range. Older starter says, "hit some balls for awhile, I'm gonna send out these 8 fellows first."
I had a PM tee time elsewhere, maybe 30 minutes away, so I said, "if you don't mind, I'll skip the warm-up, and jump out ahead of these 2 groups."
He says, "you can't go ahead of those guys, you are walking, They'll be much faster because they're in carts." I was dumbfounded for a sec, and then I said," just let me out ahead of them, and I'll keep up the pace, I promise." He said, "well, OK, but I'll need you to step aside if you are holding them up!"
Needless to say, I never saw them once I walked off the first green....and how can a fellow who woeks at a GC be so incredibly clueless?
I've seen many slow walking golfers...but unfortunatley most golf course employees are as clueless as the masses and don't know better.
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Check out this hard-to-believe anecdote from a recent visit to Biloxi, MS:
Showed up in the morning at a high-end daily fee, and wandered towards the range. Older starter says, "hit some balls for awhile, I'm gonna send out these 8 fellows first."
I had a PM tee time elsewhere, maybe 30 minutes away, so I said, "if you don't mind, I'll skip the warm-up, and jump out ahead of these 2 groups."
He says, "you can't go ahead of those guys, you are walking, They'll be much faster because they're in carts." I was dumbfounded for a sec, and then I said," just let me out ahead of them, and I'll keep up the pace, I promise." He said, "well, OK, but I'll need you to step aside if you are holding them up!"
Needless to say, I never saw them once I walked off the first green....and how can a fellow who woeks at a GC be so incredibly clueless?
Zoel,
What was your business at the course, research or leisure? Most people falsely assume that research takes much more time than a leisure round. You can't always judge a hit and runner at face value.
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Joel
If people ride and use distance aids what makes you think that they are capable of understanding, unless they have yet another little gadget to tell them. :(
Their persistence in riding and used outside aids just adds to their inability to understand the environment or courses. Probably the reason why we have so many top ranking lists coming out each week, they are there to try and help some remember where they were that week. ???
You may also note that they have a copy of the Ancient Book of the Dead from Egypt using the hieroglyphics as the High Way Code for Carts on Golf Courses. Some may even resemble a brainless Mummy by the end of their round. These Sea People who tack from one side of the fairway to another taking their 6-7 hours to fully navigate a course in their 4 wheeled prairie ships. ;)
Melvyn
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(http://i56.tinypic.com/wml1ko.jpg)
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Actually, the proper term is: Golf Cars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_cart
http://www.golflink.com/facts_18499_history-golf-carts.html
The use of golf cars in the USA was popularized by the many pictures of President Eisenhower in a golf car is such places as Palm Springs and Augusta and elsewhere during his many vacations. Blame him.
(http://cryptome.org/eyeball/prezsec/pict475.jpg)
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My dear Melvyn,
I have listened to your railing about the sins of golfers that ride in carts, use precision instuments to gauge the yardage to distant greens and drink when on the course. I have yet to hear you condemn the use of caddies; surely they take away from the Calvinism of the true believer.
Like you, I did at one time, look upon strapping hulks of beef riding around with a certain amount of disdain, until I read the Club's financials. I must say that it eases the discomfort.
Bob
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OK, I guess this would be a good time to talk about how to do search for threads.
The site search located on top is not too useful. I am not exactly sure how it is implemented, but its scope is quite narrow and usually do not result in good results.
If you are doing a search, I would recommend using a search site like Google or Bing. To narrow the search to forum threads only, use "site:http://golfclubatlas.com/forum" before your search terms. That will force the search to return only hits from the threads here.
I just did a search on "site:http://golfclubatlas.com/forum cart carry walk" and I got 1900 hits.
It would also be highly recommended for a new poster who was not a longtime lurker to go through past 10 pages of thread headings. You don't have to read all of the threads, but it wouldn't take too long and would give you a very good idea of what topics have been discussed often around here over past few months. And you really should read some of the most popular threads there anyway (or else why are you here?).
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The search function works fine. If you know what you're looking for, even just one key word, it will deliver.
For example. I once read Brad Klein post on here that he thought some of Tom Doak's work was awful.
So, to find the post referenced, I go to the advanced search. Enter 'Brad Klein' in the By User box, and enter "work awful" in the Search for: box. The key is putting the key words in quotation marks. Hit enter, and presto:
Subject Relevance Started by Date Posted
Bobby Weed-Should GCA love him?
in Golf Course Architecture
Re: Bobby Weed-Should GCA love him? by Brad Klein
... of Tom Doak's work and find some of his work awful. I think that there's too much kid- ...
4.3% redanman April 12, 2002, 08:51:54 PM
Pages: [1]
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Man, what do you know. I didn't even realize there was an advanced search option. That icon doesn't do anything to convey that it is an advanced search (it really should be replaced by "advanced search" hyperlink like every other website). I've been wanting to do thread topic only search for years! Finally!
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Duncan
Great topic, it’s at the heart of the modern game, but this lot are mainly interested in the top 50 or 100 clubs. GCA has sod all to do with some on here and we waste pages on lists and Rankings of clubs which has zero to do with GCA.
You have every right to voice your opinion, just as much right as those who don’t want to talk about it.
Many are not interested in golf, design, or history, as long as they can ride, drink and not use their little brains they are happy. Their friends will walk, but they care not about others as long as they get what they want.
Golf has no place for carts (for the fit), if the Authorities had Balls they would do something about it - as for our fellow members they forget that there is an on off button and also they have no need in posting on a subject not to their interest. But you will learn many are nasty on this site.
I have many friend here but they believe in the freedom of speech, opinions and belief which is how it should be. Be your own Man and welcome.
Melvyn
Thank you Melvyn,
I really didn't realise I was opening such a can of worms!
I should emphasise that I come from a golfing culture where carts are pretty well alien. Most clubs have a few for use by elderly members and visitors or by those with health problems, but by and large no-one in my part of England rides a cart.
I hope that you can understand then, my shock and surprise at discovering that cart usage in America is not only de rigeur but in some cases mandatory. I connect golf carts with Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Ronald Reagan - I never imagined that 'ordinary' golfers ever used them!
I would like to be fair minded and non-judgemental on this; however, I agree completely with Melvyn. Golf carts have no place in the game for anyone able to walk the course. I always thought that golf was a sport. If people use carts then it just proves this guy to be right...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv3WsAj0aVY
Bing should have ridden more often.
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Richard...
Eric is obviously smarter than he looks!!! ;)
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Duncan - I'm not as militant as some of these guys in my opinion on starting topics that have been done before because so much has been discussed here it is just about impossible to start a thread that hasn't been at least touched on over the years. That being said, if you you are sincere in your interest in some other threads referencing the walkinggolfer.com or threads on walking vs carts or threads with links to other sites maintained by people that frequent GCA then here are a few to get you started.
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43226.msg933196/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41392.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41439.msg878635/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40818.msg861844/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39230.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41505.0/
OR - Just use the advanced search as Eric described, type in "golf carts" in the words to search for and type in "Melv*" in the user field and watch hours of fun unfold immediately before your eyes.
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Duncan,
These guys are out of line. Your topic was perfectly fine, they are letting their exhaustion with Melvyn cloud their judgment. In the future avoid topics about Tom Morris, electronics or the good side of Pat Craig and you will be fine.
As one who knows a little something about crossing the line please accept this apologie on behalf of my brothers in error.
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John, I LIVE outside the lines...
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Thanks guys, for educating me in how to search the forum.
Kinda begs the question though, as to why the Search Box function is so inadequate...
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Duncan,
These guys are out of line. Your topic was perfectly fine, they are letting their exhaustion with Melvyn cloud their judgment. In the future avoid topics about Tom Morris, electronics or the good side of Pat Craig and you will be fine.
As one who knows a little something about crossing the line please accept this apologie on behalf of my brothers in error.
"My brothers in error"! Well said.
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Duncan
Great topic, it’s at the heart of the modern game, but this lot are mainly interested in the top 50 or 100 clubs. GCA has sod all to do with some on here and we waste pages on lists and Rankings of clubs which has zero to do with GCA.
You have every right to voice your opinion, just as much right as those who don’t want to talk about it.
Many are not interested in golf, design, or history, as long as they can ride, drink and not use their little brains they are happy. Their friends will walk, but they care not about others as long as they get what they want.
Golf has no place for carts (for the fit), if the Authorities had Balls they would do something about it - as for our fellow members they forget that there is an on off button and also they have no need in posting on a subject not to their interest. But you will learn many are nasty on this site.
I have many friend here but they believe in the freedom of speech, opinions and belief which is how it should be. Be your own Man and welcome.
Melvyn
Thank you Melvyn,
I really didn't realise I was opening such a can of worms!
I should emphasise that I come from a golfing culture where carts are pretty well alien. Most clubs have a few for use by elderly members and visitors or by those with health problems, but by and large no-one in my part of England rides a cart.
I hope that you can understand then, my shock and surprise at discovering that cart usage in America is not only de rigeur but in some cases mandatory. I connect golf carts with Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Ronald Reagan - I never imagined that 'ordinary' golfers ever used them!
I would like to be fair minded and non-judgemental on this; however, I agree completely with Melvyn. Golf carts have no place in the game for anyone able to walk the course. I always thought that golf was a sport. If people use carts then it just proves this guy to be right...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv3WsAj0aVY
Bing should have ridden more often.
Sam, I think Bing was an old guy when the use of carts became prevalent. I suspect he was more a caddy kind of a guy until his '60's and later.