Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Tyler Ince on May 04, 2010, 11:51:37 PM
-
Since I am now looking to go from forged to blades...thought I would take a poll to see what you guys think.
-
What do you play now? Any brand leanings?
-
I am hitting a set of Hogan Apex Plus forged. Actually like the Hogan blade. I hit a friend's that he bought new for $250 on closeout. Wish I had found that deal. Also looking at Mizunos. Just want to get fitted before anything.
-
Good, first thing is that you have to get fit. Check out the Callaway X-Prototype Irons, great looking blade.
-
Thanks Sam. Will keep that in mind.....really want to get a professional fitting indoor and then go out to a grass range.
-
Where do you live?
-
The Scratch Golf blades are some of the best looking blades on the market IMO:
http://www.scratchgolf.com/irons/sb-1/
-
I WOULD HAVE TO SAY MIZUNO IMO. I ONLY WISH I WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO USE THEM ! :-[
-
How capable a golfer are you?
I've used blades all my life, and recently changed to the Cleveland CG1's. They are absolutely beautiful to it, but they must be the smallest heads that one can get.
I agree with Sam. The Cally Protos are great club (and very sexy looking). :)
Pup
-
I would say go with the Mizunos. They feel fantastic when you hit them, and i think they have a great look from the top with a very narrow leading edge. I havent hit the Callaways so I can not comment on them. I currently have the titleist 690's, and I love them. So I would also recommend Titleist if youre willing to expand your choices.
-
I will echo Zack's sentiment. Blades are nice but there's so many clubs that look similar at set up and still provide feedback that aren't blades. I have Titleist 735s but I looked at titleist and mizuno blades when I was choosing. The mizunos were superior IMO, and I'm a Titleist guy ;). I have also seen the Callaways and they look cool, but who knows how they feel?
Care to share why you're looking to make the switch from forged to blades? Only a minority of tour players play them now.
-
Since I am now looking to go from forged to blades...thought I would take a poll to see what you guys think.
Can someone explain the difference between forged and blades? I always thought they were the same thing, with cast irons being the other option. I was out of golf for about 15 years so things have moved on a bit I guess.
-
Donal,
It's possible to forge a cavity backed club (indeed more complex clubs are now being made with forging), a blade hasn't got perimeter weighting.
-
There is only one blade brand for me, and that is Mizuno. I love my MP 60s. Although they are not pure blades, they have the blade feel while giving you some forgiveness on the bad ones. If you can find a set of those, they are phenomenal.
-
Donal,
It's possible to forge a cavity backed club (indeed more complex clubs are now being made with forging), a blade hasn't got perimeter weighting.
Thanks for the explanation Mark. I'm was toying with the idea of getting blades to replace my 1985 vintage irons so it's good to know that you can get cavity backed irons with the feel of forged irons.
-
If I ever happen to have sufficient money and ability at the same time. I am buying a custom set of Scratch blades just like Ryan Moore's.
I love the Satin finish, lack of superfluous logos and stamping and the fact they have lofts instead of iron numbers.
(http://www.scratchgolf.com/tour/ryan-moore/clubs/RM40-20100228-180104.jpg)
-
I am waiting on a set of Mizuno MP68s with KBS shafts.
I am returning to blades after several sets of cavity backs such as MP60s, having played Mizuno blades in the past - Pro Original, TP original, MP33 etc.
Get fitted with a local Mizuno fitter - the shaft optimiser is an interesting device and there is a good range of shafts available.
-
Miura, as good as they get.
-
Miura, as good as they get.
I've never played them but there can't be a prettier set of blades out there. Beautiful.
-
I have played with Mizunos since I was 14 so I am biased. I have never thought of straying away from them and certainly know how well thought of they are by the pros.
-
Mizuno without a doubt! No one else has done better.
I have used blades for over 10 years. Firstly with the MP-29s and now the MP37s.
A friend of mine uses TP11's (The ones that Faldo used to win the 1990 Masters and 1990/92 Opens) and has used them for 20 years!
My lack of golf ;D has forced me to go cavity back on the long irons and now used MP60s which are superb alternative to the blades. Boony uses the older version.
If I was after new clubs I would def go for the MP68's 6-PW and the MP62's for 3-5 irons
-
Scott Warren -
FYI, I read in GolfWorld magazine that Ryan Moore did switch to a set of Scratch forged, slightly oversized, cavity-back irons before the Masters. The article said he did it primarily to get more height on his shots. I don't know if he has since switched back to the blades.
DT
-
I just took delivery of the new Mizuno MP-58s after using MP-33s for the last several years. My game could use some more forgiveness in the irons, and the mishits aren't as painful for my perpetual case of tennis elbow. They have 90% of the feel of the MP-33s and way more forgiveness.
-
Scratch blades are pretty sweet. But if you can get your hands on a set of somewhat new Mizuno MP-14's I don't think a better iron has ever been made!
-
I had a guy in California custom grind me a set of blank Miura forgings last year. They feel like pure butter and I couldn't be more pleased.
Prior to those, I played the original Nike blades. Those irons are spectacular and I will probably get them refinished one day.
If I were to buy a new set right now, it would be between the Mizuno MP-68 and Scratch blades.
-
Wow some great feedback here thanks everyone. Pretty much where I wanted to head first was Mizuno and go to one of their fitting locations. The MP60 is an alternative I am considering to the blade, but I guess I will see how it feels after trying a few out. Just need to find the closest fitting location in Florida or Texas and find the time to get it done! But getting the lie, loft and shaft customized is something I definitely wanted to do rather than adapting my swing to off the rack standard still shafts....something I have always done.
Playing Cozumel Country Club tomorrow. Happy Cinco de Mayo!
-
Wow, talk about a thread over and above one's ability level. . . I generallly lean toward the Atra blades. . . :P
-
I play Scratch....
-
I've always thought that the Titleist 690MB were the best looking irons I've ever seen. Very similar look to the first generation of Nike blades that Tiger used.
-
Dan -
You took the post right out of my fingers.
The only reason to play blades is because they look good. I find the 690MB to be the fairest of them all and I have been playing them for about five years.
(http://www.swingmangolf.com/images/1Titleist690MB.jpg)
-
Miura, as good as they get.
Agreed,with Mizuno as runner up.
I was once told that if sponsorship was ever outlawed,the PGA Tour would be 20% Ping and 80% Mizuno.
-
1956 Wilson Staffs.
-
MIZZZZZZZZZ-UNO!
-
Get thee to a Wishon club fitter/maker and get a MOI fitting (http://wishongolf.com/moi.php) for a set of Wishon blades.
(http://wishongolf.com/images-designs/sets/555M-glam.jpg)
-
Tyler, if you are looking to be fitted in Texas, Sam Morrow is at High Meadow Ranch 45 minutes north of Houston. Really fun course too!
-
I sold golf clubs for many years so I have done quite a bit of research on this question.
Certainly there are some old school blades that you could find used that are great, MacGregor JNs or VIPs, Hogan Apex 2's, etc. However, if you are buying anything from current to the last 15 years, Mizuno makes the best quality forged golf club out there. Granted, I haven't seen the new Scratch clubs and I hear they are good.
Get yourself fitted for the right shafts (i.e. low ball hitter should get rifles and high ball hitter should get DyGolds) and you wont regret a purchase of Mizunos.
-
I always thought these were beautiful irons. There cavity back models are also very nice.
-
8) i'd go start this thread on BOMBSQUADGOLF.COM if you want some opining..
i played a mixed set of fitted Wishon's 550C's for my 4,5 & 6 and 550M's in my 7, 8, & 9 irons for several years with rifle shafts.. everyone said what a neat set of mizuno's they were, how'd i get them made up (no one ever realized the M was a upside down W)! loved them.. then one demo day I hit the mizuno MP-60's and feel in love.. still love them after 4-5 years, though they're getting dented like an old ring!
but really, just get fit first as advised, get your shaft cpm numbers, decide if you want to go MOI approach ND FIND WHATLOOKS BEST TO YOUR EYE AND FEELS BEST IN YOUR HANDS..
-
8) i'd go start this thread on BOMBSQUADGOLF.COM if you want some opining..
i played a mixed set of fitted Wishon's 550C's for my 4,5 & 6 and 550M's in my 7, 8, & 9 irons for several years with rifle shafts.. everyone said what a neat set of mizuno's they were, how'd i get them made up (no one ever realized the M was a upside down W)! loved them.. then one demo day I hit the mizuno MP-60's and feel in love.. still love them after 4-5 years, though they're getting dented like an old ring!
but really, just get fit first as advised, get your shaft cpm numbers, decide if you want to go MOI approach ND FIND WHATLOOKS BEST TO YOUR EYE AND FEELS BEST IN YOUR HANDS..
Those mizunos sure looked good at Belvedere. Then again, everything looks great at Belvedere ... 5 weeks and counting!! :)
-
8) JC,
I imagine FLA is very tolerable knowing a return to Charlevoix is approaching.. how long will the summer last up there this year?
We'll be back at Blue Lake late july and early the august.. looking for a return to the Bel or getting you down to The Black Forest and maybe some time on the lake?
the mizunos worked very well at Black Mesa, Pa-Ko Ridge and UNM Championship course weekend before last.. we'll see how they work at bandon next week 8)
-
8) JC,
I imagine FLA is very tolerable knowing a return to Charlevoix is approaching.. how long will the summer last up there this year?
We'll be back at Blue Lake late july and early the august.. looking for a return to the Bel or getting you down to The Black Forest and maybe some time on the lake?
the mizunos worked very well at Black Mesa, Pa-Ko Ridge and UNM Championship course weekend before last.. we'll see how they work at bandon next week 8)
I'll be up there Memorial day through the GCA Kingsley weekend July 25th-ish. I fully intend on playing Black Forest this year as I am going through Doak withdrawal and there ain't no High Pointe to cure what ails me.
Say high to your bride for me, she's the only reason why I want you to come back to play Belvedere with me ;) :)
-
I play Mizuno MP-33s and I absolutely love them!
-
It's got to be Mizuno's. I have had a set of Mizuno cavity backs since I first started playing and have hit tons of other clubs but nothing else is even close.
-
I bought a set of Miura's after playing a set of Daiwa Advisor DG273's for almost 20 years. I love these blades.
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x67/kelbrett/PB280579.jpg)
-
I have a mixed set of Mizuno's. MP 60's 3-6 and MP 67's 7-PW and I love them, I bought them used at a sporting goods store for $150 bucks about 2-3 years ago. I am probably not good enough to play them but I do love the way they look. IMO nothing looks better than a 7 iron blade behind the ball on a perfect fairway.
Those Scratch Irons look BEAUTIFUL, wow!!.
I am not an equipment guy and am of the belief that look and confidence is 90+ percent of how you like your clubs, good swings and solid contact with any clubs will result in good shots, I think the amateur gets too caught up in equipment when they should worry about their swing. Isn't there a saying that instead of getting new clubs get lessons.
IMO the clubs make small differences in performance that are almost unnoticable to anybody but the best golfers; are certain drivers going to give you a couple more yards if fitted exactly correct, sure but unless you play for a living or are a very good player who cares.
-
My 2 cents (worth 1 maybe)
Mizuno's forgings had the best feel, of any iron I hit. But I could not play with them. i do not produce much back spin
and the Mizuno's HAD pretty passive grooves. Did not control my distances well.
Bridgestones Blades Gorgeous. Not as soft feeling as Mizuno, but pretty controllable.
Honma Best looking of the bunch to me, but a little hard feeling
Cleveland Good feel, but "stick" in the ground a little. Custom ground the soles to get them to "cut" through better. Very good
Titleist blades. Good looking, pretty passive grooves also. Feel a little harder than Miz
Callaway X blade Love these. Long irons a but unforgiving, but short irons are money. New (legal) grooves were plenty, even for me
Ping Not really blades, so nope. But I like their "version"
Miura WOW! Just hit one today ironically. Beautiful, and may be as solid feeling to me as the Miz
Have not hit the Scratch yet :(
-
Get yourself fitted for the right shafts (i.e. low ball hitter should get rifles and high ball hitter should get DyGolds) and you wont regret a purchase of Mizunos.
I thought rifle's give you a more boring (low) ball flight whereas Dynamic Golds helped you get the ball airborne? Or is that what you meant?
Agreed on Mizuno...
-
I play Mizuno MP-33s and I absolutely love them!
+1
-
Titleist 690mb. Great looking. Great feel.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o64/kiteboymm/690mb.jpg)
MM
-
Miura
I have Mizuno, but Miura's are beautiful
-
I played with Hogan Apex blades for 25 years including persimmon headed driver, brassie and spoon!! I now have a set of Mizuno clubs and adore them.
Cheers Colin (The Hielander).
-
I thought rifle's give you a more boring (low) ball flight whereas Dynamic Golds helped you get the ball airborne? Or is that what you meant?
Dynamic Golds are as low launching as you can get. Rifles are pretty "yesterday" at this point, passed by Project X and KBS in popularity. They were never considered low launching...the "Tour Flighted" version was introduced to lower the ballflight of short irons and raise the flight of long irons for an overall flatter trajectory.
-
Kevin,
That may be so, but aren't the DGs a much higher spin shaft that the rifle and PX? Meaning that lower launch does not necessarily mean lower ballflight?
-
Kevin,
That may be so, but aren't the DGs a much higher spin shaft that the rifle and PX? Meaning that lower launch does not necessarily mean lower ballflight?
Scott
In my experience DG are a lower spin iron shaft than PX/Rifles. However they are a totally different bend profile to both PX and Rifle's.
In answer to the O/P - if had the game it would have to be a set of Miura blades!
-
My 2 cents (worth 1 maybe)
Mizuno's forgings had the best feel, of any iron I hit. But I could not play with them. i do not produce much back spin
and the Mizuno's HAD pretty passive grooves. Did not control my distances well.
Bridgestones Blades Gorgeous. Not as soft feeling as Mizuno, but pretty controllable.
Honma Best looking of the bunch to me, but a little hard feeling
Cleveland Good feel, but "stick" in the ground a little. Custom ground the soles to get them to "cut" through better. Very good
Titleist blades. Good looking, pretty passive grooves also. Feel a little harder than Miz
Callaway X blade Love these. Long irons a but unforgiving, but short irons are money. New (legal) grooves were plenty, even for me
Ping Not really blades, so nope. But I like their "version"
Miura WOW! Just hit one today ironically. Beautiful, and may be as solid feeling to me as the Miz
Have not hit the Scratch yet :(
This should be Exhibit A why very few players need to be playing blades.
Unless you can repeat a golf swing enough to get this kind of detailed feedback,you need all the heel and toe you can buy.
This,of course,presupposes that one's score is important and/or one's choice of irons is dependent upon trying to hit more greens.I know that there are frequently other reasons for playing certain clubs.
-
Kevin,
That may be so, but aren't the DGs a much higher spin shaft that the rifle and PX? Meaning that lower launch does not necessarily mean lower ballflight?
There is some good comparative info on this chart:
http://media.titleist.com/images/cobragolf/products/drivers/pdfs/CustomShafts.pdf (http://media.titleist.com/images/cobragolf/products/drivers/pdfs/CustomShafts.pdf)
-
Scott Warren -
FYI, I read in GolfWorld magazine that Ryan Moore did switch to a set of Scratch forged, slightly oversized, cavity-back irons before the Masters. The article said he did it primarily to get more height on his shots. I don't know if he has since switched back to the blades.
DT
From Golfweek:
Ryan Moore, although he is one of the owners of Scratch Golf, switched from Scratch AR-1 Tour irons to Ping S56 irons during a recent tournament swing through Asia. ...
-
MP32's or MP60's
-
Scott Warren -
FYI, I read in GolfWorld magazine that Ryan Moore did switch to a set of Scratch forged, slightly oversized, cavity-back irons before the Masters. The article said he did it primarily to get more height on his shots. I don't know if he has since switched back to the blades.
DT
From Golfweek:
Ryan Moore, although he is one of the owners of Scratch Golf, switched from Scratch AR-1 Tour irons to Ping S56 irons during a recent tournament swing through Asia. ...
Very interesting...
He was always a Ping guy before he bought into Scratch...so maybe he just likes the cavity back look better?
-
I am using Callaway cavity/blades.
All of the companies offering blades have great offerings.
You must get fitted, but in my opinion, outdoors is a must.
Way too often, especially with pretty good players, the grind of the sole, and bounce is overlooked.
Mats in an indoor setting are very forgiving as far as the club "moving through" the turf.
Shafts/lies etc are pretty easy to fit someone for. Grip size, and how the club works through the ground
are hugely important and need a good fitter to help!
-
Scott Warren -
FYI, I read in GolfWorld magazine that Ryan Moore did switch to a set of Scratch forged, slightly oversized, cavity-back irons before the Masters. The article said he did it primarily to get more height on his shots. I don't know if he has since switched back to the blades.
DT
From Golfweek:
Ryan Moore, although he is one of the owners of Scratch Golf, switched from Scratch AR-1 Tour irons to Ping S56 irons during a recent tournament swing through Asia. ...
Very interesting...
He was always a Ping guy before he bought into Scratch...so maybe he just likes the cavity back look better?
I know this is OT, but Scratch and Ryan Moore have parted ways.
-
I was a blade player for many years. Now play forged Miura's with a small cavity. Look and feel like the blades but I think they are more forgiving. Incidentally, before he opened his own shop, Miura did the forging for Mizuno.
-
I like the Mizuno MP-14s. It is very soft. I think the Miura blades that I have hit are solid, but too hard to hit.
FOR YOU MIZUNO FANS, HAS ANYONE TRIED THE TN-87? I have been trying to find some.
-
The old dunlop maxfli's red dot from the 70's
Jon
-
I was a blade player for many years. Now play forged Miura's with a small cavity. Look and feel like the blades but I think they are more forgiving. Incidentally, before he opened his own shop, Miura did the forging for Mizuno.
Just curious, has your scores or handicap dropped since the switch?
-
Miura currently makes 1 model of forged blades and 4 models of forged cavity backs.
http://www.miuragolf.com/miura-clubs.asp
-
http://valueguide.pga.com/images/TM/Irons/rac_tp_combo_large.jpg
vintageeee!! 3-6 the CB "slight" cavity, 7-9 MB blade, 48* rack wedge - not like a funked out looking mizuno
Don't think you can pass on the gunmetal finish of the Stack wedges - those custom finishes are oh so sweet
I'm so out of the equipment loop these days - didn't eve know these Beauts existed untill just now!!!!!!!
-
My 2 cents (worth 1 maybe)
Mizuno's forgings had the best feel, of any iron I hit. But I could not play with them. i do not produce much back spin
and the Mizuno's HAD pretty passive grooves. Did not control my distances well.
Bridgestones Blades Gorgeous. Not as soft feeling as Mizuno, but pretty controllable.
Honma Best looking of the bunch to me, but a little hard feeling
Cleveland Good feel, but "stick" in the ground a little. Custom ground the soles to get them to "cut" through better. Very good
Titleist blades. Good looking, pretty passive grooves also. Feel a little harder than Miz
Callaway X blade Love these. Long irons a but unforgiving, but short irons are money. New (legal) grooves were plenty, even for me
Ping Not really blades, so nope. But I like their "version"
Miura WOW! Just hit one today ironically. Beautiful, and may be as solid feeling to me as the Miz
Have not hit the Scratch yet :(
I played Cleveland CG1's for some time and then tried out the Mizuno 68's because everyone I respected raved about Mizuno. I will agree that when I flushed em- I hit some of the best shots I have ever hit. But, coming from the Clevelands, the 68's felt "heavy" to me. It was fairly distracting and I retreated back to the CG1's- which I do love. I must admit that the Callaway x blades to look sexy- I would love to test em out. Has anyone else found the Mizuno's to feel heavy?
-
Back in 1972 I spent ten months in Rhodesia to sell off some farming land I owned. During that time I played a number of times with Simon Hobday, David Leadbetter and a bunch of other pros and good amateurs. They all lusted for Hogan irons. I came back to the US in October and called the Hogan factory and ordered the 1972 Apex irons, No. 4 shaft and quarter inch tipped. The best clubs ever. They now sit in my garage in a golf bag hung up so the mice can't get at them. Now and again I take them down to Quail Lodge to hit a bucket of balls. The 1 iron looks like a Gillete razor blade on the end of a telegraph pole.
I cannot for the life of me remember how I used them.
Sic transit Gloria.
Bob
-
I went to a set of Scratch EZ-1's and cut my index in half from 5.0 to 2.5. They are the first set of irons that I take into my house and give a loving rub since I was a child.
-
I went to a set of Scratch EZ-1's and cut my index in half from 5.0 to 2.5. They are the first set of irons that I take into my house and give a loving rub since I was a child.
There is nothing queer about John.
Bob
-
I went to a set of Scratch EZ-1's and cut my index in half from 5.0 to 2.5. They are the first set of irons that I take into my house and give a loving rub since I was a child.
John,
Do you spin the ball a lot? I'm a high spin player and the EZ-1's gave me some trouble.
I should also add KZG to the mix, love my KZG Blades.
-
Back in 1972 I spent ten months in Rhodesia to sell off some farming land I owned. During that time I played a number of times with Simon Hobday, David Leadbetter and a bunch of other pros and good amateurs. They all lusted for Hogan irons. I came back to the US in October and called the Hogan factory and ordered the 1972 Apex irons, No. 4 shaft and quarter inch tipped. The best clubs ever. They now sit in my garage in a golf bag hung up so the mice can't get at them. Now and again I take them down to Quail Lodge to hit a bucket of balls. The 1 iron looks like a Gillete razor blade on the end of a telegraph pole.
I cannot for the life of me remember how I used them.
Sic transit Gloria.
Bob
Except for the quarter inch tip, I had/have the exact same clubs. Bought them new at cost when I was working at a golf course and played with them for about 22 years. I've compared the 2-iron to a butter knife, it looks so small. They were my first set of pro-caliber irons I owned and my wife just can't seem to understand why I still have them. Haven't hit one in a long, long time but you've inspired me to take them out to the range this week.
-
Purdy...
Like a Samurai sword
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l320/UBeenMiniD/GCA%20Stuff/YururiBladeProto.jpg)
-
I played with a set of Golden Ram Vibration Matched irons up until a fews years ago. The word spatula comes to mind. But geez they were good. Frosty Sunday mornings sure made you try and find the sweet spot very quickly.
-
These ones (taking them out for a spin later this week)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/threeputtzalot/00207.jpg)
-
I acquired a set of the new Titleist 710 MBs a couple months ago, with KBS Tour shafts in them. They're really, really nice.
-
1999 Hogan Apex irons are in my bag today, but I've been playing Hogan irons since the late '70s (talk about brand loyalty!). Prior to the '99s, the Apex PC was my favorite model. Some of these are still around, though they suffer from the reputation of being hard to hit.
http://www.mygolfspy.com/1999-hogan-apex-blades/
As an aside, Pete Dye rumaged through my bag at Kiawah Island several years back, pulled out my 5-iron and swung it a few times. He followed us around for a couple of holes and kept extolling the virtues of the Hogan Apex. He was still bragging on the club when we saw him at dinner that night. I had another set at home and thought about sending him my clubs but learned that he already owned multiple sets.
-
I have been using Titleist Blades for about 7 years now. I have gotten so used to the profile and shape that I can't imagine using anything else.
Mark
-
Epon AF Tours (Endo) with KBS shafts.
Best looking blade and surprisingly, somewhat forgiving.
-
Mizuno 18degree 2 iron
Mizuno MP 58.... 3 - 6iron
Mizuno MP 68 .... 7 - wedge
Mizuno 54 and 60
Got fitted earlier this summer... DG S300... absolutley love them...
Mind you... I need to get a really good putter. I amusing a piece of crap now, that is starting to misbehave... who does the best. please dont suggest a Scotty !!! I hate mass production junk that is overpriced...
KK
-
As a lefty, my blade options are a little more limited. I have the 690 mb now. I've been looking at the new Mizunos and Titleists, but they have a thicker top line that doesn't suit my eye. I have to get a look at the new Nike VR Pros, and I am hoping Scratch builds some lh musclebacks, but I am sure the company has better priorities. The Wilson Staff fg-59s were stunning, but no lh.
-
It is interesting that I have not seen many (any?) play the Nike VRs. I hit them, liked them, got fit for a new set and then when push came to shove I couldn't stop playing my Hogans. There is just something about Hogans. I am envious of Shivas, Mickey and Bob that they have the early 70s Apex irons. I used a set owned by a former State Am champion but they were lent to me and never mine and I had to give them back. Still my fav set ever, and the PCs are still amazing. And I have sets of Mizunos (terrific), MacGregor Muirfield set and the 20th set, Titleists and I see these other posts and think I have to try some other makes................................. Why are clubs so interesting.........................
-
Will,
Miura has a couple of lefty options in irons:
(http://www.miura-golf-clubs.com/prodimages/lhbladesm.png)
(http://www.miura-golf-clubs.com/prodimages/lhcavitysm.png)
and wedge:
(http://www.miura-golf-clubs.com/prodimages/lhwedgesm.png)
-
Sets of forged Hogan irons come up for sale regularly on EBAY, sometimes at surprisingly low prices.
-
Does anyone play those Goldwin AVDP blades that Nick Price designed in the late 90's? Ive been casually looking for a nice set to buy, but cant find them anywhere...
Mark
-
Shivas,
Thanks for the excellent poster of Hogan clubs. I think I need to go looking for some........... I forgot about those Medallions, I totally agree with you.
I will add, Kris Tschetter's book about Mr. Hogan was really good. Of course, I worship Mr. Hogan so...............................
David,
Thank you, I need to check it out on Ebay. I really need to find me a set of those and maybe a few others as well.
-
I have a set of the 1984 Hogan PC's.... but honestly I don't care for them at all. I agree that the 1999 set is very solid and would be worth a look on Ebay.
I went back to blades this past year (MP-14's) and I never plan on switching back to cavity backs ever again.
-
People who don't keep score don't count.
-
I need to get a really good putter. I amusing a piece of crap now, that is starting to misbehave... who does the best. please dont suggest a Scotty !!! I hate mass production junk that is overpriced...
KK
The Ping Anser 2 is still the gold standard, as far as I'm concerned. That's why Scotty ripped it off the second it came off patent...
8802
-
Ken,
Can't miss with this, mine's been better to me (lefty version) than I deserve.
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1168/5184995427_6854690007_z.jpg)
-
Looks like I only have original shafts in 5 or 6 of them. These are the 1973 model, based on Shivas' poster and knowing when I bought them. When I was pulling these out I also found a beautiful Wilson Staff 1-iron circa late 70's that I forgot I had. Beautiful iron. Has an appearance like what I think we call a "muscleback" today.
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q317/duckhook242/PictureorVideo3392.jpg)
-
REAL nice set of Wilson Staff blades on EBAY:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WILSON-STAFF-RG200-BLADE-FORGED-IRONS-10-GOLF-CLUBS-SET_W0QQitemZ350414402954QQcategoryZ115280QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZe17002.m506QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DNGRI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D6%26pmod%3D280564516842%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5029863539249105984
How about a set of Hogan Apex Grinds (circa 1990-92)?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BEN-HOGAN-1990-92-APEX-GRIND-IRONS-3-PW-RH-STEEL-R-FLEX-/170567314846?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item27b69aad9e
-
Mizuno 18degree 2 iron
Mizuno MP 58.... 3 - 6iron
Mizuno MP 68 .... 7 - wedge
Mizuno 54 and 60
Got fitted earlier this summer... DG S300... absolutley love them...
Mind you... I need to get a really good putter. I amusing a piece of crap now, that is starting to misbehave... who does the best. please dont suggest a Scotty !!! I hate mass production junk that is overpriced...
KK
Get the see-more center shafted black putter. Not the mallet. I've been making everything.
-
Mizuno forgings/ProjectX shaft/Lamkin Tour cord grip.
Yummy!
-
Dave, it has always bugged me about that Hogan chart that the PC's are listed as a 1984 set. Unless I'm younger than I think, or I graduated high school a year later than I think, I had a set of those 1-Equalizer with Apex 5 shafts that I bought from Rick Rhoads at SFGC in 1983. He fitted me by having me hit some member irons out of the club storage...I took a few lessons from Rick back then as a high schooler. Wish I still had them, but I sold them on the Golfweb classifieds back in the mid-90's.
-
Get 'em. Those Apex Grinds are as good a set of irons as there has ever been, IMO...
Hogan's without Apex shafts just aren't the same.
-
My two cents.....
Go with some type of cavity back irons. A lot of tour players use cavity back, two examples are Lee Westwood and Dustin Johnson. Technology today is made to help the average guy. Heard a guy on the tour the other day say, "why wouldn't you use cavity irons if it can't hurt you."
-
My last set of blades were Palmer Standards which I played from around 82 through 91. I liked the feel of those clubs far better than Hogans or Wilson Staff.
-
I went back to blades this past year (MP-14's) and I never plan on switching back to cavity backs ever again.
Pat,
I've played blades since age 8, so for over 42 years. I have hit the cavity occasionally and it felt wrong. Last week a playing partner told me I was really giving up a lot by playing the blades, which I don't believe. Even if it cost me a few strokes per round it is well worth it because the feel of a well hit blade is a pleasure like no other in this world. My youngest son is playing the Ping 10 and he is getting more serious about the game so I am troubled with whether to give him one of my Hogan blade sets so he can get the same pleasures out of the game that I have had playing blades.
It reminds me the other day I put Sticky Fingers on the turn table and in my mind I think it does sound much better than the CD, and you can't beat the occasional crackle. With more new issues coming out in vinyl I am thinking about making that switch back to vinyl when available. Unfortunately a lot of the really old stuff like Blind Willie Johnson only come on CD as far as I can find.
Kelly-My son is 15 and plays tournament golf. He wanted to try blade irons and I gave him some Magregor Tourney`s I had. He has never been happier or hit the ball better than after switching back to his Mizuno MX-900 cavity backs. I don`t think there is anything wrong with letting him try them out but there is no doubt that my son scores better with the cavity backs. My two cents.
-
Get 'em. Those Apex Grinds are as good a set of irons as there has ever been, IMO...
Why? I have a set and a set of about year 2000 Hogan Apex. What is the difference? Who actually manufactured them? Maybe that is the difference.
Kelly
Apex shafts were manufactured by my old company, Royal Precision, in Connecticut. Apex 5's were made by both RP and True Temper, and now eclusively by TT. The Apex family is a great shaft. A ProjectX is a stepless version in the Apex family - a bit softer than a stepped shaft.
I believe there is a slight difference in feel between forgings and castings. I notice no difference in feel between Forged blades and Forged cavities. Old line forged blades were much smaller. Consistent with this thread, the best forgings are made in Japan.
-
One of the great mysteries in life is that old blades do not hit as pure as new blades. I currently own a set of 76 Wilson Staffs, 2000 Titleist musclebacks and the 2010 Scratch EZ-1's. While the technological improvements are not evident on the outside there is no comparison under real world conditions.
-
I still have a few of the Titleist Tour Model blades (sand wedge, wedge and 9-iron) in my bag that I bought back in 1986. I just love the feel that I get with them.
I removed the rest of the set from my bag quite a while ago as they were not as forgiving on slight mishits as the newer models were.
-
When I played Pings I noticed my swing got sloppy because I could get away with it. I practiced less and gradually my game was poorer. With my forged irons I had to get my swing back into shape, had to hit more balls, and I ended up getting that sound back which I just love. Maybe it is academic and maybe my thinking is total nonesense but I just feel more true using blades and feel my swing is better and I am able to play better.
-
Consistent with this thread, the best forgings are made in Japan.
I greatly appreciate all the input.
Chris,
Why are the best forgings made in Japan?
I don't know why but that could be considered true.
Muira & Mizuno are some of the best. Weren't Titlest's blades (the 681's) made there for awhile?
-
Pat -
I think Miura has made forgings for both MacGregor & TaylorMade in the past. Orlimar as well.
DT
-
Consistent with this thread, the best forgings are made in Japan.
I greatly appreciate all the input.
Chris,
Why are the best forgings made in Japan?
I don't know why but that could be considered true.
Muira & Mizuno are some of the best. Weren't Titlest's blades (the 681's) made there for awhile?
When Tiger signed his first Titleist contract he was playing a mixed set of Mizuno MP-14 and MP-29s. His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.
-
My two cents.....
Go with some type of cavity back irons. A lot of tour players use cavity back, two examples are Lee Westwood and Dustin Johnson. Technology today is made to help the average guy. Heard a guy on the tour the other day say, "why wouldn't you use cavity irons if it can't hurt you."
Rick,
Golfers who are worried about score might want to avoid blade, but golfers who just want to have fun might prefer the feedback, workability and challenge of a blade. I think a lot of golfers might consider cavity back low irons and then blades for 5-W.
-
Kelly - there is an area in Japan where the focus is on forgings, for more things than golf. They have been doing it for decades and are the world standard for quality and have been for a while. Grinding a forged head is a lost art, and the artisans are in the same area.
Shivas - While part of Cobra, Greg Norman played MacGregor VIPs (I think) with "Cobra" stamped on them. Happens all the time on tour.
-
Kelly - there is an area in Japan where the focus is on forgings, for more things than golf.
A good example would be forging swords.
On another note, there are two things that a cavity and even a forged cavity can't compete with when it comes to blades.
1. Offset. Every cavity has some offset and if you hit the ball high a blade is the only way to minimize it without making swing adjustments.
2. In my opinion, nothing "pops" like a blade when you flush it. Some may disagree with this statement and that's ok, but I'm a firm believer. No cavity provides that feeling.
-
Here's a good looking set for $99:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Wilson-Staff-Forged-Blades-FG-51-2-through-PW-/160508350368?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item255f0b0fa0
-
You can pick up a decent set of Mizuno MP-14's for anywhere from:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mizuno-MP-14-Iron-Set-2-PW-TT-DG-Stiff-Shafts-Lamkin-/320618616724?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item4aa65bd794
to these cool looking puppies:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MIZUNO-MP-14-3-PW-S300-BLUEPRINTED-BLACK-OXIDE-AWESOME-/230550812580?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item35ade637a4
-
Kelly - there is an area in Japan where the focus is on forgings, for more things than golf.
A good example would be forging swords.
On another note, there are two things that a cavity and even a forged cavity can't compete with when it comes to blades.
1. Offset. Every cavity has some offset and if you hit the ball high a blade is the only way to minimize it without making swing adjustments.
2. In my opinion, nothing "pops" like a blade when you flush it. Some may disagree with this statement and that's ok, but I'm a firm believer. No cavity provides that feeling.
The forging swords comment got me thinking about the blacksmiths of Scotland and what their history might have been.
There are a number of references (in Scotland) to various types of steels that customers could pick from, at least from the custom Iron makers.
It raises some interesting questions...
-
Kelly - there is an area in Japan where the focus is on forgings, for more things than golf.
A good example would be forging swords.
On another note, there are two things that a cavity and even a forged cavity can't compete with when it comes to blades.
1. Offset. Every cavity has some offset and if you hit the ball high a blade is the only way to minimize it without making swing adjustments.
2. In my opinion, nothing "pops" like a blade when you flush it. Some may disagree with this statement and that's ok, but I'm a firm believer. No cavity provides that feeling.
Jonathan - As to #1 above, you can easily change trajectory via the shaft and kick point. We did a "Flighted Rifle" series which was very popular on tour...the long iron would go higher and the short irons lower - each intended to go through the same "window". AT RP, we did it with 46 inch blanks and trimming the shaft to a desired flight and frequency profile. Quite simple, actually.
-
Chris,
You are right about all the info regarding the rifle flighted. However, I want the lowest launch with every iron and I guess that's what I was getting at. The RF short irons were great, but I hit the long irons straight up in the air and was actually losing carry. No knock against them, they're just not for me.
-
Chris,
You are right about all the info regarding the rifle flighted. However, I want the lowest launch with every iron and I guess that's what I was getting at. The RF short irons were great, but I hit the long irons straight up in the air and was actually losing carry. No knock against them, they're just not for me.
Jonathan - For the long irons, regular Rifles would have kept the ball down. There are tons of variables to help you achieve your goals.
-
His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.
Yikes, I thought that internet myth had been killed a long time ago. It's arisen from the the grave like a zombie.
-
Shivas - While part of Cobra, Greg Norman played MacGregor VIPs (I think) with "Cobra" stamped on them. Happens all the time on tour.
It was a MacGregor 985 head that was worked on by Don White for Norman.
-
His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.
Yikes, I thought that internet myth had been killed a long time ago. It's arisen from the the grave like a zombie.
Yes. So many internet rumors in 1997..... ::)
-
I'm a Titleist guy, so that's where I personally would head. Right now I am playing a full set of forged cavity back Titleists. One thing you may consider doing (which I am going to do with my next set) is getting a "mixed" set - cavity back forged irons in the longer irons (4,5,6) and blades from 7 to PW. This shouldn't be a problem especially if you plan to get fitted.
-
Mark - Agree with you 100%. Titleist = Quality.
Titleist forgings are quite good as well and quality control is awesome!
-
Mark - Agree with you 100%. Titleist = Quality.
Titleist forgings are quite good as well and quality control is awesome!
Chris, thanks for the information on Japan. Who do you work for?
Kelly
I used to be the CEO of Royal Precision, maker of Apex, FCM, Microtaper, Rifle and ProjectX. I have a decent knowledge base about shafts and other components, and how they behave and perform. We sold our company to TT 5-6 years ago.
-
I used to be the CEO of Royal Precision
I have a decent knowledge base about shafts and other components
I think this is called understatement.
Being in Memphis,I was a traitor for using Rifles according to a friend at TT.I still use a set of original 6.0's which have been installed in several sets of heads.I can't imagine ever changing.
Chris,if you dealt with any engineering guys at TT,we probably have some mutual acquaintances.
-
While they technically aren't blades, the Ping s59 at address has the same look as a blade. Thin topline, almost no offset, tiny head. However, I find them to be almost as forgiving as the best cavity back. And from what I've heard, the s56 is even better.
I never played Pings and never really thought about them as an option. But the pro at my club a few years ago was upgrading to the s58, and he sold me his s59's for cheap (we have the same build and swing, so they fit me perfectly). I've never been happier with a set of irons. I swapped out the 3-iron for an Adams Pro hybrid, but that wasn't because the s59 3-iron was particularly difficult to hit ... more a case that the Adams hybrid is brilliant.
-
This is OOT, but I'm wondering what would happen if they tested the difference between cast and forged by making a cast and forged blade iron in the exact same shape. I wonder if anyone could tell the difference between them?
I ask because years ago when I was looking into the manufacture of wood chisels I consulted an old tool supplier and asked him whether there would be any difference between machining a chisel from a small billet of tool steel vs forging a softer tool steel. He said no, that all the stuff about forging "healing" the steel or filling voids and whatnot was a bunch of hooey. He said that forging was a way to get the metal to the right shape with less waste, nothing more. The implication being that if it was more cost-effective to machine away excess metal than to forge it to shape, then that was the way to go. Casting is a different process, but most billets of steel are cast that way to begin with.
Sorry to ramble, any thoughts?
-
Charlie,
There are some major differences in chisels. To make it short, harder steel keeps an edge longer, softer steel can yield a finer edge when sharpening. Damascus (folded)steel chisels are the top-of-the-line, they're like a mini-Samurai sword.
As for golf clubs, if the same steel was used in the casting method it would feel like a forging and they'd be hard to tell apart. That's not the case as forgings use softer, carbon steel and castings use harder, stainless alloys.
-
His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.
Yikes, I thought that internet myth had been killed a long time ago. It's arisen from the the grave like a zombie.
Yes. So many internet rumors in 1997..... ::)
Uh, you may not be aware, but there have been equipment-focused boards on the internet for a long time...I have been participating on them (and their successors) since 1995. I came across Tom Huckaby on one of those boards back then, and of course a lot of us started on the many predecessors to GCA back in the mid-late 90's. These were discussion boards, not newsgroups (though groups like rec.sports.golf existed even farther back).
Not a good idea to use the "rolling eyes" smilie when you apparently don't know the subject matter.
-
Wear earplugs and hit two different heads that otherwise appear similar in shape and you likely won't be able to tell the difference in "feel". "Feel" with irons is more auditory than anything else. There are some fine blades that you would have no clue are cast. The ball is not on the clubface very long, so the "feel" that players experience is their interpretation of the sound.
But since the sound at impact is very important (for both irons and drivers), it is not something to ignore so a preference for a forged "feel" can be important even if it is likely a preference for a sound.
-
His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.
Yikes, I thought that internet myth had been killed a long time ago. It's arisen from the the grave like a zombie.
Yes. So many internet rumors in 1997..... ::)
Uh, you may not be aware, but there have been equipment-focused boards on the internet for a long time...I have been participating on them (and their successors) since 1995. I came across Tom Huckaby on one of those boards back then, and of course a lot of us started on the many predecessors to GCA back in the mid-late 90's. These were discussion boards, not newsgroups (though groups like rec.sports.golf existed even farther back).
Not a good idea to use the "rolling eyes" smilie when you apparently don't know the subject matter.
Not a good idea to think that because YOU spoke of it on an internet board in 1997 that it must be an "internet" rumor (that is, a rumor generated and spread through the internet) and that's where whomever speaks of it got their information from.
As you probably know, it was widely discussed by those of who were, at the time, in the industry.
-
Wear earplugs and hit two different heads that otherwise appear similar in shape and you likely won't be able to tell the difference in "feel". "Feel" with irons is more auditory than anything else. There are some fine blades that you would have no clue are cast. The ball is not on the clubface very long, so the "feel" that players experience is their interpretation of the sound.
But since the sound at impact is very important (for both irons and drivers), it is not something to ignore so a preference for a forged "feel" can be important even if it is likely a preference for a sound.
While I agree with you that "feel" has an auditory component. The studies have shown that feel is also comprised of vibration and that vibration plays a larger role in "feel" for full swing shots and that sound plays a larger role in "feel" for putting or short game shots. So, dismissing "feel" as entirely auditory is not correct (save for short game shots where there isn't enough impact to create substantive vibrations).
-
Yeah, it was an offline rumor and an Internet rumor.
"What's in Tiger's bag" was discussed more than just about any other equipment topic, except maybe "cast vs forged".
But, my interest in the topic peaked a long time ago, so I'll let you have the last word.
-
While I agree with you that "feel" has an auditory component. The studies have shown that feel is also comprised of vibration and that vibration plays a larger role in "feel" for full swing shots and that sound plays a larger role in "feel" for putting or short game shots. So, dismissing "feel" as entirely auditory is not correct (save for short game shots where there isn't enough impact to create substantive vibrations).
You will not be able to tell apart the "feel" or "vibration" of a club with a same shape whether or not it was forged or cast. But you may be able to hear the difference in sound.
-
The studies have shown...
What were these studies, who did them, and how were they conducted?
-
The studies have shown...
What were these studies, who did them, and how were they conducted?
There have been several. Here is are some links to some:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM3-4F29HRB-1&_user=10&_origUdi=B6WM3-4FCRFFS-2&_fmt=high&_coverDate=07%2F06%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_origin=article&_zone=related_art&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4da010d6a773499cb86c83951d17c859
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM3-4FCRFFS-2&_user=10&_origUdi=B6WM3-4F29HRB-1&_fmt=high&_coverDate=11%2F04%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_origin=article&_zone=related_art&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ecfe1e8d1141456c4f9e979da677cbbc
http://business.highbeam.com/624/article-1G1-144715952/assessment-impact-sound-golf-putting
There was also a study by the Hocknell, Jones Rothburg trio in the mid-90's that I cant seem to find but is the one that was referenced a lot when I was learning about this stuff.
-
I have an original set of 1967 MacGregor VIP's (2-wedge) including the woods (1,3,4 with the aluminium inserts. At one time a classic club collector wanted to pay me a bunch for them to resell to Payne Stewart. They belonged to my father and growing up I would occasionally hit them. I still vividly remember a shot I hit with the 4 iron that was the sweetest feeling I have ever experienced. I look at those clubs today and I wonder if I could even get the 4 iron airbourne.
Lester
-
It's really pretty simple. If feel had no link to vibration you wouldn't be seeing all the vibration dampeners that are built into heads (especially cast), shafts, and grips.
-
Why the perceived separation of vibration and sound. Sound is vibration. I think it would be hard to separate out the vibrations you feel and the vibrations you hear.
-
It's really pretty simple. If feel had no link to vibration you wouldn't be seeing all the vibration dampeners that are built into heads (especially cast), shafts, and grips.
Sensicore shafts come to mind immediately.
-
Why the perceived separation of vibration and sound. Sound is vibration. I think it would be hard to separate out the vibrations you feel and the vibrations you hear.
Yes, but we are talking about different sensory responses to different types vibrations. I think it is generally understood that feel is a composition of vibration and sound with vibration playing a larger role on the full swing and sound playing the larger roll in the short game.
-
Lester,
I am envious, please don't ever get rid of them. WONDERFUL clubs!!!
-
Jim,
Twenty years ago I was offered $2,000 for them. Now that my father is gone, I probably won't sell them anytime soon.
Lester
-
When Tiger signed his first Titleist contract he was playing a mixed set of Mizuno MP-14 and MP-29s. His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.
JC -
Are you saying that in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and most of 2002 Woods was playing Mizuno clubs with "Titleist" on them?
How did Mizuno feel about all this? Did they get a few bucks for their troubles?
-
Lester,
That doesn't surprise me. You have very special clubs for 2 reasons, I am glad they are in great hands.
-
When Tiger signed his first Titleist contract he was playing a mixed set of Mizuno MP-14 and MP-29s. His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.
JC -
Are you saying that in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and most of 2002 Woods was playing Mizuno clubs with "Titleist" on them?
How did Mizuno feel about all this? Did they get a few bucks for their troubles?
No, no idea and no idea, respectively.
Titleist obviously had forging capabilities and who knows how long it took them to come up with a club that Tiger wanted to play. My guess is not long.
-
There have been several. Here is are some links to some:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM3-4F29HRB-1&_user=10&_origUdi=B6WM3-4FCRFFS-2&_fmt=high&_coverDate=07%2F06%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_origin=article&_zone=related_art&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4da010d6a773499cb86c83951d17c859
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM3-4FCRFFS-2&_user=10&_origUdi=B6WM3-4F29HRB-1&_fmt=high&_coverDate=11%2F04%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_origin=article&_zone=related_art&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ecfe1e8d1141456c4f9e979da677cbbc
http://business.highbeam.com/624/article-1G1-144715952/assessment-impact-sound-golf-putting
There was also a study by the Hocknell, Jones Rothburg trio in the mid-90's that I cant seem to find but is the one that was referenced a lot when I was learning about this stuff.
JC, by reading the Abstract, there is nothing here that says that Sound is NOT the dominating factor in "feel" of a golf club.
The first study you quote is about defining what is a "solid feel". But since the test was not conducted with "sound-blind" testers, what they described as "feel" was nothing more than reaction to the sound they were hearing - which is pretty much what the second study you quote is saying.
I have still yet to see any study that shows that golfers can feel the difference between forged and cast clubs without the aid of sound.
-
There have been several. Here is are some links to some:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM3-4F29HRB-1&_user=10&_origUdi=B6WM3-4FCRFFS-2&_fmt=high&_coverDate=07%2F06%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_origin=article&_zone=related_art&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4da010d6a773499cb86c83951d17c859
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM3-4FCRFFS-2&_user=10&_origUdi=B6WM3-4F29HRB-1&_fmt=high&_coverDate=11%2F04%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_origin=article&_zone=related_art&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ecfe1e8d1141456c4f9e979da677cbbc
http://business.highbeam.com/624/article-1G1-144715952/assessment-impact-sound-golf-putting
There was also a study by the Hocknell, Jones Rothburg trio in the mid-90's that I cant seem to find but is the one that was referenced a lot when I was learning about this stuff.
JC, by reading the Abstract, there is nothing here that says that Sound is NOT the dominating factor in "feel" of a golf club.
The first study you quote is about defining what is a "solid feel". But since the test was not conducted with "sound-blind" testers, what they described as "feel" was nothing more than reaction to the sound they were hearing - which is pretty much what the second study you quote is saying.
I have still yet to see any study that shows that golfers can feel the difference between forged and cast clubs without the aid of sound.
Richard,
The abstract of the first study says"
Ultimately, a reduction in the total rms vibration level was found to correlate well with the players’ subjective descriptions of ‘pleasant’, ‘solid’, ‘lively’ and ‘soft’ feel.
Meaning there is a correlation between "feel" and vibration.
I have yet to see any study that shows that golfers CANT feel the difference between forged and cast clubs without the aid of sound.
-
When I played Pings I noticed my swing got sloppy because I could get away with it. I practiced less and gradually my game was poorer. With my forged irons I had to get my swing back into shape, had to hit more balls, and I ended up getting that sound back which I just love. Maybe it is academic and maybe my thinking is total nonesense but I just feel more true using blades and feel my swing is better and I am able to play better.
This quote is actually a heck of an endorsement for Ping irons. Ping irons-"Swing sloppy and get away with it" ;) It would also infer that if you are having an off day Ping is the club you want in your bag. It seems a stretch that someone`s game would get poorer because they had found a set of irons that were easier to hit.
-
JC, read that sentence again. It says "players’ subjective descriptions of ‘pleasant’, ‘solid’, ‘lively’ and ‘soft’ feel." How do you know that those players are not responding to the sound and to the actual vibration itself? Because the second study says that feel is mostly sound.
Unless you do a test with "sound-blind" testers, you don't know if you are measuring actual feel or feel based on sound.
-
JC, read that sentence again. It says "players’ subjective descriptions of ‘pleasant’, ‘solid’, ‘lively’ and ‘soft’ feel." How do you know that those players are not responding to the sound and to the actual vibration itself? Because the second study says that feel is mostly sound.
Unless you do a test with "sound-blind" testers, you don't know if you are measuring actual feel or feel based on sound.
I read the sentence, I get what it means.
Are you saying that golfers cannot feel vibrations or that golfers can't feel the difference between the vibrations of a forged club and a cast club?
Are you also then saying that despite giving off the same vibrations they give off different sounds?
To what do you credit the difference in sounds?
-
Are you saying that golfers cannot feel vibrations or that golfers can't feel the difference between the vibrations of a forged club and a cast club?
That is basically what the second study you quoted is saying - that feel is largely based on sound.
Are you also then saying that despite giving off the same vibrations they give off different sounds?
No, the same vibration will give off the same sound. However, people can differentiate much finer difference in sound pitch than vibration frequency through hands.
To what do you credit the difference in sounds?
I am not saying there is difference in sound between a forged and a cast club head of same shape. I am saying that I would not be suprised if there were small differences since sound travels differently in objects with different density. Unless someone does a definitive study on this issue, no one knows.
-
Tim,
I think the frequency of misses increased as I worked on my game less. A miss with a Ping will still leave me in a bunker, or a longer way from the pin etc. The chance at birdie is reduced (at least in my game) as my swing got sloppier. It lulled me into a false sense of security. I think you are right that if I am having a bad day I would prefer the forgiveness of my Pings but in order to have a better swing and therefore most likely a better game in the longer run I am with my forged irons. It can be a slippery slope in my opinion.
-
Unless someone does a definitive study on this issue, no one knows.
You seem to know ;) ;D
Do you think that forged clubs are "softer" than cast clubs?
Is the steel in forged clubs different than cast clubs? If so, is it "softer"?
Do you think that an impact into something softer gives off more or less vibration than an impact into something harder?
-
You seem to know ;) ;D
No, I don't, since I have not done any test myself and have not read any studies on this matter.
Do you think that forged clubs are "softer" than cast clubs?
I don't think, I KNOW that forged clubs are softer. I've taken Material Science Engineering courses, and I know the basics of steel manufacturing.
Is the steel in forged clubs different than cast clubs? If so, is it "softer"?
Yes, steel used in forged clubs are softer, otherwise it would be more difficult to manufacture them.
Do you think that an impact into something softer gives off more or less vibration than an impact into something harder?
Yes, the vibrations would be different. But there are other factors in play.
First, the shape has probably greater effect on vibration differences than the softness of the steel.
Second, as I have said again and again, just because there is difference, does not mean that you can "feel" the difference, especially without sound. The study is saying that if you take a forged club with a shape that will create harsher sound, it is going to feel harder than a cast club with sound dampner that will give it a more pleasing sound.
-
Tim,
I think the frequency of misses increased as I worked on my game less. A miss with a Ping will still leave me in a bunker, or a longer way from the pin etc. The chance at birdie is reduced (at least in my game) as my swing got sloppier. It lulled me into a false sense of security. I think you are right that if I am having a bad day I would prefer the forgiveness of my Pings but in order to have a better swing and therefore most likely a better game in the longer run I am with my forged irons. It can be a slippery slope in my opinion.
Jim-Thanks for the reply. I have had a set of Ping Eye 2 irons in my bag for more than 20 years and I can`t imagine switching them out. This is what interested me about your comments. I think I understand what you are saying but I still would rather have that 4 iron miss with the Eye 2`s than the blades. Isn`t that the real definition of "game improvement" clubs? Hope all is well. :)
-
Tim,
Thanks, I think we are pretty much on the same page. I played Eye 2s and ISIs and liked both a lot. No doubt the misses were better. I am not sure they are better on pure shots and I think they are harder to work the ball. I just had the issue that as the years passed I got sloppy and now and got away with more. Knowing I got away with more I think may have affected my confidence as well causing me to play a little poorer and I wasn't working as hard and therefore my swing wasn't as good. Now that I am back using forged irons I have to swing at it better and I feel like I work harder, am swinging at it better and having more chances. Of course, I am lucky that I get to play a lot of golf instead of once a week or less. My concern is that longer term issue. If things are a bit too easy we humans tend to slack off a bit. Of course, Hogan is my hero if you couldn't tell. :)
-
Wow really liked reading through this thread again and seeing how it moved to sound vs vibration. Very interesting input all around. But still not sure what I am going to do! :)
-
Hard to beat Miura irons -- expensive as can be and take time to get them since limited # are created.
The Mizuno line is also tough to beat -- I am a set of MP-67's and when hit properly the feeling is tough to beat.
The key is being able to hit them consistently to get the desired result.
The Eye-Twos, as pointed out by others, provide a much greater elasticity on mishits.
-
I thought the whole idea of golf club technology was to reduce elasticity...
Tyler,
I hate to ask this at this point but I can't figure out what your switching from or to...are you going from forged to cast? Or the other way around?
In either event, how they look is more important than how they feel/sound...find a set with a good looking 8 iron.
-
Forgot to mention -- Epon is also getting plenty of movement for their quality offerings.
-
Mizuno MP 14's are money. Check out eBay. You may be able to find a set in good condition w/ DG S300's for under $250.
-
Richard-
great info--from someone who knows what they're talking about!
However, you may have just ruined the hopes and dreams of all the 12 h'cappers on golfwrx.com who love their forged Mizuno blades with pured and tipped tour-proto KBS's for all the feel and workability and their monogrammed buttery soft Scratch 56's for touch shots around the greens.
(disclaimer--I like both brands...)
Back to the original question: I had Titleist 680's for a long time, but the 2010 AP2 is the greatest iron of all time. Blades are in the back-up bag in the trunk. Truth be told, the major reason I stuck with blades for as long as I did is I hate offset irons and the vast majority of cavitys had tons.
-
For me I'm not sure the big difference was blades vs. cavity backs necessarily, but rather forged vs. cast. I grew up hitting a set of Wilson Staff Dynapowers, circa 1973 or so (the year I was born). My first set of new clubs was a set of Wilson Staff Progressives in 1995. A few years later, while working at a golf course, I picked up a set of Mizuno T-Zoid pro-forged on the cheap, with Sensicore shafts. Those were a revelation. I've been a Mizuno guy ever since. I'm now hitting a mized set of MP-60s 3-6, and MP-32s 7-PW. I bought those with Sensicore shafts as well. I've tried cast clubs in the past, and they just felt too hard.
Most important, though, is getting fitted. I'm constantly amazed that people will buy clubs off the rack at retail prices. You wouldn't buy a $500 suit without being measured and getting a tailored fit. Why pay almost twice that much for golf clubs without getting fit?
-
For me I'm not sure the big difference was blades vs. cavity backs necessarily, but rather forged vs. cast. I grew up hitting a set of Wilson Staff Dynapowers, circa 1973 or so (the year I was born). My first set of new clubs was a set of Wilson Staff Progressives in 1995. A few years later, while working at a golf course, I picked up a set of Mizuno T-Zoid pro-forged on the cheap, with Sensicore shafts. Those were a revelation. I've been a Mizuno guy ever since. I'm now hitting a mized set of MP-60s 3-6, and MP-32s 7-PW. I bought those with Sensicore shafts as well. I've tried cast clubs in the past, and they just felt too hard.
Most important, though, is getting fitted. I'm constantly amazed that people will buy clubs off the rack at retail prices. You wouldn't buy a $500 suit without being measured and getting a tailored fit. Why pay almost twice that much for golf clubs without getting fit?
Bill:
I agree with you about the Mizuno T-Zoid Pro's. An old boss had used them dispite being a Titleist guy and I had hit them a few times and really liked them. I bought two sets in late 2001 when Edwin Watts was selling them for ~$300 each as Mizuno was discontinuing them. I wore through those two sets over the next 8 years and went back to the MP-14's.
However, when it comes to forged cavity backs the original T-Zoid Pro stands up to anything out there right now.
-
In the early 1990s Slazenger made Seve Ballesteros Blades these were beutifull to look at with a very thin top edge and superb feel when struck correctly . ;D
-
In the early 1990s Slazenger made Seve Ballesteros Blades these were beutifull to look at with a very thin top edge and superb feel when struck correctly . ;D
A set of these (1-iron included) is 10 feet from me as I type this.
I'll have to take your word about the superb feel--I rarely struck them correctly.
-
I am cruising the Charlotte Craigslist and someone has a set of MP 37's w/ X-100's for $175. If only I were good at golf...... ;D
-
I am cruising the Charlotte Craigslist and someone has a set of MP 37's w/ X-100's for $175. If only I were good at golf...... ;D
I seldom buy clubs any more, but recently I purchased my first club ever on Craigslist, a Ping G15. I went to have it reshafted and discovered it was a conterfeit. Of course, the seller won't return my calls and messages so I've reported him and the club on Ping's online fraud section. The next step is sending a referral to the FBI which Ping tells me is serious about pursuing this sort of crime. Stupid me!
Regarding blades, this thread prompted me to check my 2010 stats which showed that while I am finding more than 50% of the fairways, I am hitting less than a third of the greens. I've become quite short of the tee which means that I have longer approaches, but the GIR seems out of whack.
So, I may be retiring my Apex blades at the end of the year in favor of my exiled TaylorMade TPs which were reshafted with Apex 4s. Steve Lang ran the specs on them and they were all over the place, so I am thinking about reshafting again. My driver swing speed ranges from 90-100 mph depending on how I am feeling. Any suggestions on new shafts?
-
Chris Johnston is the shaft man but back when I was selling clubs I would recommend a good player like you get Rifle 5.0s. I've always found, and maybe I'm wrong, that the Rifle's were the best at getting the ball up in the air and providing for a more boring (not tiresome) trajectory.
You are a good enough player Lou that you could probably put the TP's in in the 3-6/7 and keep your blades for the 8-PW as long as the TPs aren't significantly longer causing a big game in your yardages.
-
Chris Johnston is the shaft man but back when I was selling clubs I would recommend a good player like you get Rifle 5.0s. I've always found, and maybe I'm wrong, that the Rifle's were the best at getting the ball up in the air and providing for a more boring (not tiresome) trajectory.
You are a good enough player Lou that you could probably put the TP's in in the 3-6/7 and keep your blades for the 8-PW as long as the TPs aren't significantly longer causing a big game in your yardages.
JC - you know your stuff!
Lou - If you like Dynamic Golf, you can also go with ProjectX - PX is both constant weight and frequency matched. The regular rifle family is great for distance control, consistency and feel. I would definately reshaft in the 5.0 to 6.0 range and absolutely ensure that the shafts match through the set. Go to an expert craftsman so that he can put you in a shaft that also matches the head weights you have. There are so many good shafts out there, with the proper consult, you will find a great fit for you.
Play well!
-
[When Tiger signed his first Titleist contract he was playing a mixed set of Mizuno MP-14 and MP-29s. His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.
JC -
What time frame are you referencing? My understanding was that he played Mizuno irons until late 1997, when he switched to Titleist? Are you saying that he played for an entire year (turning pro in 1996 through late 1997) with a Titleist stamp on his Mizunos?
-
I hate speculation as much as the next guy, but I'm going to do it...from memory, Tiger was absolutely playing a forged blade that was not available from Titleist for a number of years...it may have been Mizuno from the outset, although I would more likely believe that it was just a Mizuno club with Titleist markings. Mizuno would be fine with this because they never want to pay anybody anyway and everyone on the inside would see this as proof that the Mizuno clubs are the best. I feel like it took a few years before Titleist actually produced a forged blade in Tiger's model...am I wrong on that part?
-
One of the great things about buying a set of irons from www.scratchgolf.com besides helping out a great friend and benefactor to many on this site, is that you can get your shafts SST Pured. I love the heads on my EZ-1's but give a ton of credit to the puring of the shafts for my recent fine play.
It is hard to explain the feeling you have driving to a course knowing the only barrier you face is your own stupidity. This can be achieved through the purchase of perfectly constructed fitted clubs. Fitness or practice be damned.
If you choose to buy golf clubs from eBay your barrier of stupidity is so high the quality of construction becomes moot.
-
I am cruising the Charlotte Craigslist and someone has a set of MP 37's w/ X-100's for $175. If only I were good at golf...... ;D
I seldom buy clubs any more, but recently I purchased my first club ever on Craigslist, a Ping G15. I went to have it reshafted and discovered it was a conterfeit. Of course, the seller won't return my calls and messages so I've reported him and the club on Ping's online fraud section. The next step is sending a referral to the FBI which Ping tells me is serious about pursuing this sort of crime. Stupid me!
Regarding blades, this thread prompted me to check my 2010 stats which showed that while I am finding more than 50% of the fairways, I am hitting less than a third of the greens. I've become quite short of the tee which means that I have longer approaches, but the GIR seems out of whack.
So, I may be retiring my Apex blades at the end of the year in favor of my exiled TaylorMade TPs which were reshafted with Apex 4s. Steve Lang ran the specs on them and they were all over the place, so I am thinking about reshafting again. My driver swing speed ranges from 90-100 mph depending on how I am feeling. Any suggestions on new shafts?
Lou-If you can get your hands on a true G15 take the plunge as it is a pleasure to hit. Ping.com has a pretty accurate online fitting process which you can then demo before buying. The online suggestion proved to be the perfect match for me on the first try. Nothing but good results since I put it in the bag. Sorry about the bad experience with Craigslist.
-
If you choose to buy golf clubs from eBay your barrier of stupidity is so high the quality of construction becomes moot.
JK,
Should I assume that buying from Craigslist decreases my "barrier of stupidity" (making me more directly stupid)? ???
JC and CJ,
Thanks for your input. Historically, the amount of money I've spent on clubs and technology have not correlated with my performance. I guess I need to think about all this some more.
Thanks Tim. It never occured to me that I could be buying a counterfeit club. I've had good luck with Ping's WRX (?) department in the past and your suggestion (+ my recent experience) makes total sense. As the old adage goes: "if it is seems too good to be true it probably isn't".
-
I hate speculation as much as the next guy, but I'm going to do it...from memory, Tiger was absolutely playing a forged blade that was not available from Titleist for a number of years...it may have been Mizuno from the outset, although I would more likely believe that it was just a Mizuno club with Titleist markings. Mizuno would be fine with this because they never want to pay anybody anyway and everyone on the inside would see this as proof that the Mizuno clubs are the best. I feel like it took a few years before Titleist actually produced a forged blade in Tiger's model...am I wrong on that part?
Sounds about the same as my recollection. Then again, there are apparently some people on this board who feel pretty strongly that it never happened. I don't really care either way.
-
If you choose to buy golf clubs from eBay your barrier of stupidity is so high the quality of construction becomes moot.
JK,
Should I assume that buying from Craigslist decreases my "barrier of stupidity" (making me more directly stupid)? ???
JC and CJ,
Thanks for your input. Historically, the amount of money I've spent on clubs and technology have not correlated with my performance. I guess I need to think about all this some more.
Thanks Tim. It never occured to me that I could be buying a counterfeit club. I've had good luck with Ping's WRX (?) department in the past and your suggestion (+ my recent experience) makes total sense. As the old adage goes: "if it is seems too good to be true it probably isn't".
Lou,
Only if you gave the seller your home address before you ratted him out.
-
Not sure about the Tiger Mizuno/Titleist question but Adam Barr has been named president of Miura and was on the radio this morning discussing the quality of the product. He stated that Miura irons have been used by a number of major winners though stamped with the mark of other manufacturers. It was a good interview.
-
Not sure about the Tiger Mizuno/Titleist question but Adam Barr has been named president of Miura and was on the radio this morning discussing the quality of the product. He stated that Miura irons have been used by a number of major winners though stamped with the mark of other manufacturers. It was a good interview.
This is factual.
-
Not sure about the Tiger Mizuno/Titleist question but Adam Barr has been named president of Miura and was on the radio this morning discussing the quality of the product. He stated that Miura irons have been used by a number of major winners though stamped with the mark of other manufacturers. It was a good interview.
This is factual.
I don't know, Chris. If a bunch of guys on an internet golf club message board can't conceive this practice to be true, there is no way it can be true.... ;) ;D ;D
-
Not sure about the Tiger Mizuno/Titleist question but Adam Barr has been named president of Miura and was on the radio this morning discussing the quality of the product. He stated that Miura irons have been used by a number of major winners though stamped with the mark of other manufacturers. It was a good interview.
I have a simple question: do the manufacturers whose clubs are being used get paid by the company who "stamps" their name to the club? If so, what is the going rate? If not, and the manfuracturer does not give it's approval, isn't it illegal?
Maybe they give their approval and don't receive compensation beyond the costs of the irons. Seems to me, that if the president of Miura was openly discussing this and not mentioning a lawsuit that he was implicitly consenting to it and possibly bragging about it as it makes his company look quite good.
-
I'm finding that a cheaper alternative to a completely custom set of blades is to go onto Ebay and find some good to excellent condition set of some bygone irons. Say, a Mizuno MP-32 (not so bygone) or even MP-14 or 33.
Irons: 300 bucks
New shafts: 300-400
Shafts pured, installed, loft and lie adjusted: 200
Grips: 150-ish
This makes for a much more custom set of irons than off rack, "fitted" irons, and allows for a few more customization pieces. I'm also considering sending the irons off to get a Black Oxide coating. Any thoughts?
-
David Cronan & JC Jones -
As I posted back several pages, I believe Miura (and possiblity one or two other Japanese companies) have made forged iron clubheads that have been sold to American golf club companies to be assembled in the U.S. and sold under brands such as MacGregor, TaylorMade, Orlimar, etc. There is nothing unusual or unethical about that.
This is not uncommon in the golf club business. Most golf club companies buy component parts (clubheads, shafts & grips) that are made by another manufacturer. I think PING has a factory to cast their own clubheads, but I doubt any other U.S. golf club company does.
DT
-
I'm finding that a cheaper alternative to a completely custom set of blades is to go onto Ebay and find some good to excellent condition set of some bygone irons. Say, a Mizuno MP-32 (not so bygone) or even MP-14 or 33.
Irons: 300 bucks
New shafts: 300-400
Shafts pured, installed, loft and lie adjusted: 200
Grips: 150-ish
This makes for a much more custom set of irons than off rack, "fitted" irons, and allows for a few more customization pieces. I'm also considering sending the irons off to get a Black Oxide coating. Any thoughts?
Some clubmaker would be very happy to sell you shafts, SST Puring, loft & lie, and grips at those prices. :)
-
Not sure about the Tiger Mizuno/Titleist question but Adam Barr has been named president of Miura and was on the radio this morning discussing the quality of the product. He stated that Miura irons have been used by a number of major winners though stamped with the mark of other manufacturers. It was a good interview.
Easy way to tell...if they have big, ugly roundish looking short irons, then yes, they quite possibly could be Miuras.
-
I hate speculation as much as the next guy, but I'm going to do it...from memory, Tiger was absolutely playing a forged blade that was not available from Titleist for a number of years...it may have been Mizuno from the outset, although I would more likely believe that it was just a Mizuno club with Titleist markings. Mizuno would be fine with this because they never want to pay anybody anyway and everyone on the inside would see this as proof that the Mizuno clubs are the best. I feel like it took a few years before Titleist actually produced a forged blade in Tiger's model...am I wrong on that part?
Yes, the Titleist 681 was not released commercially until 2001.
But then again Tiger used a model 970 3-wood that was never released commercially. Davis Love used a variety of Titleist wood and iron models that were never released commercially. The Nike driver that Tiger used for a spell was never released commercially. I could go on and on.
Funny, there are internet rumors that Tiger's Nike blades are/were re-badged Mizunos. Or they are Miura blades rebadged as Nike.
Miura must be making a mint from these re-badging!
-
I'm finding that a cheaper alternative to a completely custom set of blades is to go onto Ebay and find some good to excellent condition set of some bygone irons. Say, a Mizuno MP-32 (not so bygone) or even MP-14 or 33.
Irons: 300 bucks
New shafts: 300-400
Shafts pured, installed, loft and lie adjusted: 200
Grips: 150-ish
This makes for a much more custom set of irons than off rack, "fitted" irons, and allows for a few more customization pieces. I'm also considering sending the irons off to get a Black Oxide coating. Any thoughts?
The black oxide looks awesome, I've always been a fan. As with chrome or anything else it will wear but it will look sweet.
-
I'm finding that a cheaper alternative to a completely custom set of blades is to go onto Ebay and find some good to excellent condition set of some bygone irons. Say, a Mizuno MP-32 (not so bygone) or even MP-14 or 33.
Irons: 300 bucks
New shafts: 300-400
Shafts pured, installed, loft and lie adjusted: 200
Grips: 150-ish
This makes for a much more custom set of irons than off rack, "fitted" irons, and allows for a few more customization pieces. I'm also considering sending the irons off to get a Black Oxide coating. Any thoughts?
The black oxide looks awesome, I've always been a fan. As with chrome or anything else it will wear but it will look sweet.
The problem with black oxide,aside from durability issues,is the feel.They become "clicky"(this is probably not a technical term).If you're buying irons as soft as MP-14's,coating them defeats the purpose,IMO.
-
I'm finding that a cheaper alternative to a completely custom set of blades is to go onto Ebay and find some good to excellent condition set of some bygone irons. Say, a Mizuno MP-32 (not so bygone) or even MP-14 or 33.
Irons: 300 bucks
New shafts: 300-400
Shafts pured, installed, loft and lie adjusted: 200
Grips: 150-ish
This makes for a much more custom set of irons than off rack, "fitted" irons, and allows for a few more customization pieces. I'm also considering sending the irons off to get a Black Oxide coating. Any thoughts?
The black oxide looks awesome, I've always been a fan. As with chrome or anything else it will wear but it will look sweet.
The problem with black oxide,aside from durability issues,is the feel.They become "clicky"(this is probably not a technical term).If you're buying irons as soft as MP-14's,coating them defeats the purpose,IMO.
That is a good point and one I had forgotten. I also get the same feeling from a chrome finish.
-
Kevin.
Sorry, I did not intend to imply that Tiger was playing Miuras in 1997 just that re-badging seems like it was fairly common at some point in time.
-
Someone who is more knowledgeable than i on the subject will have to explain how today's cavity back clubs -- at the highest of the spectrum -- really provide less than what you see with pure muscle back clubs.
I think it's primarily personal preferences because I don't see the performance dimension being so glaring.
If someone believes completely different -- I'm all ears.
-
Sorry to hear about your troubles, Lou. Unfortunately, your story is pretty common with eBay and Craigslist. I would never buy a popular model from those sites as vast majority of what is out there are fake. Unless you are very good at spotting fakes and/or buying from a very trusted source, it is not worth it to buy from those sites.
I only buy clubs from on-line if I am looking for something out of the ordinary, something that was not popular enough that counterfeiters never bothered.
There has been a lot of talk about buying Mizuno forged irons from eBay on this thread and that is kind of ironic as eBay is flooded with cast counterfeit Mizunos. Many of you may be playing with cast club thinking that it is "forged" soft...
-
Rich - the one nice thing about being a lefty is that you can be morally certain you aren't buying counterfeit.
-
http://www.mygolfspy.com/best-golf-blade-iron-designs/
Nice collection of photos of 35 different blade designs. Enjoy.
-
This makes for a much more custom set of irons than off rack, "fitted" irons, and allows for a few more customization pieces. I'm also considering sending the irons off to get a Black Oxide coating. Any thoughts?
Black oxide MP-14's look great!