Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: George Pazin on November 27, 2009, 12:53:22 PM
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As I mentioned earlier, Scott is our first poster from Australia featured in this series, though he currently resides in London. And, as mentioned, Scott certainly won't be the last Aussie featured, as I have fond feelings for many of our posters down under. Mostly, I just envy them. :)
You have the whole weekend to think up interesting questions for Scott. In the meantime, I'll post some other info on him.
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On Deck: Kelly Blake Moran (!)
5 Most Recent Participants:
Jordan Wall (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42277.0/)
John Moore (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42210.0/)
Jason Topp (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41968.0/)
Brian Phillips (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41889.0/)
Kyle Henderson (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41850.0/)
Full list of participants:
Click HERE (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42023.0/)
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From Scott's Who Are You Guys post:
Scott Warren
Age: 26
Home: London, UK
Born: just outside Sydney, Australia in a place called the Blue Mountains
I'm not a member of a club in the UK (only moved here three months ago), and am thinking I won't join anywhere here during my two year stay, which should encourage me to play as many new courses as possible. I'm a member at Bardwell Valley GC in Sydney, a thoroughly uninspiring par 62 that I joined prior to departure for its $145 annual country membership so I can retain a handicap for the clubs over here in the UK that require you to have one to play. Prior to that I was a member of Penrith Golf Club in western Sydney.
Handicap: Aussie: 9, USGA index (my stats program calculates it): 7.8
First GC Ever Played: My grandfather's nine-holer that he build on his riverside property after retiring as a landscaper. First "proper" course was Windsor Country Golf Club.
Favorite Golf Architecture Book: Golf Architecture - a worldwide perspective. But to be fair it's the first and so far only GCA book I've read ;D Most of my elementary GCA knowledge has come from reading this site and playing golf with Andrew Summerell, who introduced me to this site.
Favorite Courses Played:
New South Wales
St Michael's
Newcastle
Belmont
Avondale
Wollongong
Penrith
Henbury (in the middle of the bush three hours west of Sydney, maintained by volunteers, no bunkers, condition average, but a layout to die for)
Courses I Would Like To Play:
TOC
North Berwick
Royal County Down
Royal Cinque Ports
West Sussex
Royal St George’s
Burnham and Berrow
Saunton E & W
St Enodoc
Doonbeg
Barnbougle Dunes
all of the Melbourne sandbelt
Pasatiempo
Cypress Point
Pebble Beach
Valhalla
TPC Sawgrass
Whistling Straits
Most Memorable Golf Experience:
A split between a) coming back from six down after 10 to win a junior pennant game 1-up against an older kid who sledged me from the first tee and b) watching my 27-marker dad birdie the 5th at NSW.
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Here is a link to Scott's report after a year in the UK:
A Year In The Life (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42057.0/)
In many ways, that thread was a better GTK thread than many others, but I thought it would be fun to delve a little further into Scott's background, and compare his year to his intro bio post.
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Much of this, as it turns out, is no longer accurate. I'll try to explain...
From Scott's Who Are You Guys post:
Scott Warren
Age: 26
Home: London, UK
Born: just outside Sydney, Australia in a place called the Blue Mountains
I'm not a member of a club in the UK (only moved here three months ago), and am thinking I won't join anywhere here during my two year stay, which should encourage me to play as many new courses as possible. I'm a member at Bardwell Valley GC in Sydney, a thoroughly uninspiring par 62 that I joined prior to departure for its $145 annual country membership so I can retain a handicap for the clubs over here in the UK that require you to have one to play. Prior to that I was a member of Penrith Golf Club in western Sydney.
I wrote that fully believing it would remain true, but three weeks later Mark Chaplin made it possible for me to join Royal Cinque Ports and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.
In just a year that course and club have given me so many memories - starting with an 8am pre-match breakfast with two playing partners that saw them chugging brandys and vodkas (and let me clarify one was 60+ and the other was in his late 40s), before we sat at the halfway hut for 30mins and told a few groups to go through while we drank half a bottle of wine each.
Then, as we stood to leave, a well-regarded member and his perfectly-dressed and made-up wife arrived (he was injured and couldn't play) at the halfway hut, grabbed a stiff drink and walked 10, 11 and 12 with us. It was just so other-worldly and memorable.
Handicap: Aussie: 9, USGA index (my stats program calculates it): 7.8
Down to 7.0. Playing lots of card & pencil golf ;)
First GC Ever Played: My grandfather's nine-holer that he build on his riverside property after retiring as a landscaper. First "proper" course was Windsor Country Golf Club.
On account of my not discovering the secret to time travel anytime this year, these are still the first courses I played.
Favorite Golf Architecture Book: Golf Architecture - a worldwide perspective. But to be fair it's the first and so far only GCA book I've read ;D Most of my elementary GCA knowledge has come from reading this site and playing golf with Andrew Summerell, who introduced me to this site.
I've actually discovered this year that many of the golf books I have been reading since I was younger, The Making Of The Masters, for example, are much more "golf architecture books" than I previously realised. I also read The Match about a week after my introduction post, which was a great way to discoverd more about CPC, as well as Harvie Ward, who I'd never heard of before and seems like an amazing guy.
Favorite Courses Played:
New South Wales
St Michael's
Newcastle
Belmont
Avondale
Wollongong
Penrith
Henbury (in the middle of the bush three hours west of Sydney, maintained by volunteers, no bunkers, condition average, but a layout to die for)
Only one of those courses remains in my top 10 after the year I've had. NSWGC, which I will defend to the hilt!
Courses I Would Like To Play:
TOC
North Berwick
Royal County Down
Royal Cinque Ports
West Sussex
Royal St George's
Burnham and Berrow
Saunton E & W
St Enodoc
Doonbeg
Barnbougle Dunes
all of the Melbourne sandbelt
Pasatiempo
Cypress Point
Pebble Beach
Valhalla
TPC Sawgrass
Whistling Straits
I managed six of those this year (along with 21 others), and came within a bee's dick of getting to B&B and Saunton a few times, but still haven't got down there.
I don't really know what Whistling straits and Doonbeg are doing on there...
Most Memorable Golf Experience:
A split between a) coming back from six down after 10 to win a junior pennant game 1-up against an older kid who sledged me from the first tee and b) watching my 27-marker dad birdie the 5th at NSW.[/i]
Of all the amazing things I have seen and experienced this year - a round at TOC, a sunny summer afternoon at North Berwick, a round of 75 at RCP w/ my father-in-law to be, these two still take the cake. I will never forget either.
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Of all the amazing things I have seen and experienced this year - a round at TOC, a sunny summer afternoon at North Berwick, a round of 75 at RCP w/ my father-in-law to be, these two still take the cake. I will never forget either.
...you subtly slipped in the most important 'play' of the past year. Congratulations Scott, Las Vegas wedding perhaps? ;D
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My first question to Scott would be:
Why would anyone who, locks their employees out of their office for the entire morning just to play golf, be featured on a 'Get to know you thread'?
How could you stoop to take $50 off a struggling musician in a golf bet?
How truly God-like is the guy who introduced him to this site?
Believe me George, these questions need to be asked to find out about the real Scott Warren.
Now for the real question:
How has his architectural perspective changed since living in the U.K.?
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Scott,
Forgive me for my standard question but it works. Looking at the website for Bardwell Valley, what is/was your favorite hole and why? Your least favorite and what would you do architecturally to change it?
How has Bardwell Valley survived or prospered with the recent drought issues in Australia if applicable?
The most important question: Your favorite beverage after a round at your home club? Not your favorite beverage overall, but at Bardwell Valley?
Jason Hines
Olathe, KS, USA
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Scott
How are you planning to cope golfing wise with the "real winter" period that's about to start in the UK ?
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Do you really, really believe NSW still belongs in the Top 40 of the World. No ramblings....just a simple yes or no will suffice ;)
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I figure it's Monday in Australia by now, so may as well get stuck in...
My first question to Scott would be:
Why would anyone who, locks their employees out of their office for the entire morning just to play golf, be featured on a 'Get to know you thread'?
They don't! That was remarkably bad timing! How was I to know that only me and the sales manager had keys? How was I to know that on the very day I had "an appointment with my optomitrist", said sales manager was away? The guys at work didn't really care, they got to sit in the park on a lovely October day and still get paid, and at the end of the week, we still got the paper out looking as good as ever. The moral of the story? That bunking off work to play golf with a man you met on the internet is just as productive as you and your journos actually sitting at your desks all day!
How could you stoop to take $50 off a struggling musician in a golf bet?
Stoop? I've lived my whole life that low. As such, taking money from anyone for any reason is something I've never found I have much of an internal issue with.
How truly God-like is the guy who introduced him to this site?
Very, but that's coming from a guy who grew up worshipping Steve Waugh, so take it with a grain of salt. Though I realise that is a much smaller few degrees of separation than it might appear.
How has his architectural perspective changed since living in the U.K.?
I guess the greatest change is the amount of perspective I now have. Still not as wide or deep as many others, but if you want to find two cities where oppotunities for a golf architecture enthusiast are in the greatest contrast, you can't do much better than Sydney and London.
One thing I have realised through my own experience is that for most golfers, myself included, I don't think the greater enjoyment that width and options bring to the game can be explained, it has to be experienced.
There is nothing better than seeing that you got tricked - realising there was another way to solve the riddle, or having 15 yards of short grass and some naturally undulating land between you and the hole and four or five different ways to get the ball close, using different amounts of carry, or running the ball off different landforms.
Try as you might to explain that to many who think US Open-style golf is utopia, I think you will fail 99% of the time. But let them play a course like I describe above - a Deal, TOC or Royal Zoute - and I don't think many people would fail to see the appeal.
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Scott,
Forgive me for my standard question but it works. Looking at the website for Bardwell Valley, what is/was your favorite hole and why?
I did actually only join BVGC for its cheap country membership and only played it probably 7-8 times before I moved to the UK, but still it interested me, for what it is, it works remarkably well. It wasn't for me long-term, but I can see why its pretty large membership - lots of retirees and newcomers to the game - really enjoy it.
I really liked the 5th hole. It is a par four of probably only 250m, but the small green is set from 10 to 4 on a clockface with a bunker at about 7 o'clock and the surface sloping away from the tee. The land right of the green does help to guide a well-struck draw (for a right-hander) close to the putting surface, but if you have a crack at it and end up short or short and left with the bunker between you and the hole, it becomes a really bloody tough par.
But if you play a 4i out to the right of the fairway, you have 60m straight down the green and there isn't too much to worry about.
For the less able golfers (and as I said, the club has a lot, probably 90% of the membership), they have a drive down the right, which is flanked by a creek, and a wedge in - trying to avoid the bunker, which is a nice challenge for them as well, albeit a completely different hole when viewed through their eyes.
Here is a course that isn't even in the best 50 courses in Sydney (and that's saying a lot!), but that hole would not embarrass itself on nearly any layout. It reminds me that good golf is out there everywhere, not just on the courses that get discussed here.
Your least favorite and what would you do architecturally to change it?
The 17th is another reachable par four. It doglegs right down a steep hill - a pretty sharp dogleg about 150m from the tee and 120m out from the green. As the crow flies it's probably only 220m or so tee to green.
The green is kinda cool in that a running shot can make its way on, but there is a bunker on the right and steep fall-offs left and behind the green, so even if you drive it to the green, anything too strong will end up in a tough spot.
So far, so good, but for reasons best known to itself, the club has the tee in hard against a line of tall trees to its right that mean to drive the green you have to be able to hit a 250m snap cut - and that's not a shot I have seen in too many people's bags! As a result it's a no-brainer to hit a 5i/6i to the corner and a wedge in.
If they move the tee 10-15m left, the hole still asks you to pull off a reasonably difficult shot if you hope to drive the green, but it's realistic enough that heaps of people would have a go and all those interesting greenside features would come into play a lot more.
How has Bardwell Valley survived or prospered with the recent drought issues in Australia if applicable?
I wasn't with the club long enough to have a good answer to that, sorry.
The most important question: Your favorite beverage after a round at your home club? Not your favorite beverage overall, but at Bardwell Valley?
Jason Hines
Olathe, KS, USA
A schooner of Tooheys New. Out of the bottle it is rubbish, but on a hot day, there is nothing better than a schooner. A 50/50 of Old and New is pretty good, too.
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Scott
How are you planning to cope golfing wise with the "real winter" period that's about to start in the UK ?
Plenty of reading (golf and non-golf) and reviewing some of the courses I played over the summer. I tackled some of them in such quick succession that I don't think I gave myself enough time to let them marinate in my head.
I still reckon I'll get down to Deal a fair bit, and I'm hoping to visit Lisbon early in the new year to check out Praia d'el Ray, Oitavos Dunes and Troia.
I went to Cardiff this weekend to watch the Wallabies play and was going to play at Celtic Manor because our hotel in Newport was only about 2mins away, but it was so horrific that I didn't bother. It has been a really rank three or four weeks here weather-wise, but I am hoping against hope that it's not an indication of what's to come (last winter was freezing cold, but pretty dry). I can handle cold and windy, but I hate playing golf in the rain.
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Do you really, really believe NSW still belongs in the Top 40 of the World. No ramblings....just a simple yes or no will suffice ;)
I haven't played enough courses of that stature to say either way.
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Scott,
Okay, I'll try and go easy on you...
1. Firstly, as Tony Muldoon points out, it seems congratulations are in order? Is there a story worth telling? How big a factor was her acceptance of your constant golfing that made you pop the question, as it certainly helped in my case? ;)
2. I seem to recall you mentioning that you saw a picture of Burnham and Berrow in a magazine article and this was one of the things that inspired you to come to the UK to play golf? If I'm not imagining things, then please tell this again, along with giving other reasons for why you decided to come over here for a couple of years?
3. What is the Australian system like for golf courses and visitors, especially with regards to your top courses like Royal Melbourne, NSW, etc? Is it like here where you can pretty much play anywhere, or is it more like the American system where you need to be a guest of a member?
4. Are you joining us for Buda 2010? And I'll avoid making any Australian / Welsh / Sheep jokes...
5. As a member at RCP, what are your favourite 3 holes?
6. On a similar theme, if you were Gordon Irvine, what hole would you like to change at RCP and why?
7. Ricky Ponting or Kevin Pietersen?
8. Aussie Rules or Soccer?
9. Revetted Pot Bunker or Rough Edged Blowout?
10. Newspaper Journalist or Golf Course Architect?
Cheers,
James
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Scott,
Okay, I'll try and go easy on you...
1. Firstly, as Tony Muldoon points out, it seems congratulations are in order? Is there a story worth telling? How big a factor was her acceptance of your constant golfing that made you pop the question, as it certainly helped in my case? ;)
Yes indeed, I got engaged last Wednesday night! The story is not that exciting, the question was popped at home after we'd just polished off some Indian takeaway (anyone in south London, try Holy Cow - great food! Tandoori Mixed Grill and Mirg Marsala, you can't go wrong). It might seem strange, but those who know me/us will realise it's the perfect place.
In my fiancee Kerry's case, it is much more than a mere "acceptance" of the golf. When we were planning to spend Easter in Bruges this year, it was her who asked if there were any good golf courses nearby for me to play and she was also the one that ensured I played TOC.
Some plans an R&A member aquaintance had made for me fell through the afternoon before I was to play TOC, and I headed back to Edinburgh from North Berwick to join Kerry and her folks in a pretty despondent mood. I knew lining up as a single could be a time-consuming thing, and with only four days "oop norf", I didn't want to force us to waste a whole day in St Andrews. So I basically said "forget TOC, I don't want to waste everyone's day". Anyway, she gave me a pretty stirring pep talk, told me to leave her folks to her and said we had to go and try our luck at TOC. So we got up the next morning and drive to Fife and lo and behold, I was on the tee 30 mins after we parked the car.
She was there with a smile bigger than mine, snapping pics as I teed off and cheered like it was a putt to win the Open when I holed a 10ft putt on 18.
It was one of the best days of golf I've ever had, and were it not for her it would never have happened.
She really is the most amazing, generous and understanding person I have ever met and treats the things that are important to me as though they are equally important to her. In short, I have been absolutely blessed!
2. I seem to recall you mentioning that you saw a picture of Burnham and Berrow in a magazine article and this was one of the things that inspired you to come to the UK to play golf? If I'm not imagining things, then please tell this again, along with giving other reasons for why you decided to come over here for a couple of years?
Kerry and I travelled through Europe for eight weeks in 2006 and loved every minute. We decided on the long flight home that we really wanted to live in the UK one day, so we could sample even more of the UK and Europe.
We started planning another trip in early 2007, and after a few weeks we realised we just couldn't fit all the things we wanted to see into an eight-week itinerary, so we just though "Bugger it. We want to live there one day, why not now while we are young and have no mortage or kids to stop us?"
That day I went to the paper shop to buy a UK golf magazine. I forget if it was Golf World or Golf International, but it had a series at that point with Ronan Rafferty talking about the "hidden gem" links of GB&I. That month's course was Burnham & Berrow (I still have the magazine article in a folder at home) and I just got so pumped sitting there in our flat in Penrith looking at this double-page-spread picture of this wild, foreign golf course, so B&B became a poster child for this great adventure I was going on.
3. What is the Australian system like for golf courses and visitors, especially with regards to your top courses like Royal Melbourne, NSW, etc? Is it like here where you can pretty much play anywhere, or is it more like the American system where you need to be a guest of a member?
For international and interstate visitors, the only courses I know of that are inaccessible in the UK style are Ellerstone (private estate of the country's wealthiest family, the Packers) and Capital in Melbourne. But if you live in Melbourne, it's my understanding that accessing some of the top clubs down there is more akin to the US system. Not being from Victoria, I am far from an expert on this, so any of the other Aussie posters can feel free to jump in and elaborate on this.
NSWGC is available a couple of days a week to golfers who are a member of another club, and for AU$170 or so is pretty good value. My dad and I share the same birth date, so each year for our birthday we shout each other a game of golf at NSW! I'm hoping to join when I get home so I can do all the shouting from then on.
4. Are you joining us for Buda 2010? And I'll avoid making any Australian / Welsh / Sheep jokes...
I really want to, but some things are up in the air re: our departure date from the UK. I'm 90% sure I will be there. Save the sheep jokes, that is New Zealanders!
I just went to Wales for the first time this weekend, and have to say - at the risk of causing offence - I have never seen a greater concentration of ugly women in all my life than I did in Cardiff. If the men are up in the paddocks rogering sheep, I can't say I would blame them! ;D
5. As a member at RCP, what are your favourite 3 holes?
In no order:
The 3rd - built on amazing land, with one of the coolest greens I have ever seen, options aplenty on every shot and without an easy two-putt from greater than 20ft.
The 6th - Again, lots of options on every shot - attack the green or choose a lay-up spot, great natural undulations and a unique green. Just like the 3rd, you look at the length on the card, look at the par and decide it must be a good birdie chance, then play the hole and realise par is a really, really good score.
The 16th - Another hole that is "too short" for its par in many people's eyes, but whether the wind has it playing as a two-shotter or a three-shotter, the approach is one of the most fun shots in golf, with so many ways to get the ball where you want it - using sky, land or both - and the intreguing green complex is endlessly enjoyable/frustrating.
Those three holes are a combined 1240 yards, with a par of 14, and if you can find me a golfer capable of playing them under his handicap more often than not I would be shocked. They are all just so unique and perfect for the land they are on.
6. On a similar theme, if you were Gordon Irvine, what hole would you like to change at RCP and why?
Gordon is the consultant greenkeeper. I wouldn't claim to know enough abou the dark arts to suggest anything to him! But to our consultant architect Martin Ebert, I guess I would have a few suggestions!
1. The 9th needs attention. As it stands, you can take the risk of driving over a cavernous fairway bunker and then have a second over two more traps, or drive safely to the right without risk and have the A1 approach in. The risk and thrill of the drive is too good to lose, so I'd be looking at re-bunkering the green to encourage more people to take it on.
2. The 10th is a great short par 4 where you are tempted to take the short line down the left, which brings in the angled green with a steep drop, rather than the longer, tougher route down the heavily-bunkered right that gives you a choice angle in, but by removing the LHS fairway trap, more people would be suckered into going down the left to be faced with one of the toughest 100m shots in golf.
3. The 13th would be improved, IMO, through the removal of the RHS one of the three cross bunkers, so the golfer who is really ballsy and flirts with the ugly RHS rough is given more of a reward.
7. Ricky Ponting or Kevin Pietersen?
I think both of them are awesome to watch and I love the killer instinct they both have, along with a complete disregard for what the opposition thinks of them. If I had to choose, I'd say Punter, though KP's Oval innings in 2005 was pretty amazing for the series situation and the fact he was so raw and had had his selection criticised. It was all there for him to fail, but he shone.
8. Aussie Rules or Soccer?
Aussie rules. The diving in soccer is ridiculous and causes me to not care about the result or respect the athletes. Was there a more farcical moment in sport in the last decade than Zidane headbutting Materazzi in the 06 world cup final?
9. Revetted Pot Bunker or Rough Edged Blowout?
To quote the great Thom Yorke: "Everything, everything, everything, in its right place..."
10. Newspaper Journalist or Golf Course Architect?
Journalist. From the thrill of chasing a story and nailing it to the satisfaction of looking at a paper/edition you've edited and seeing how well all the different elements have come together, it's endlessly rewarding.
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Scott,
How many times have you been to the States?
What is "Waltzing Matilda" about?
Are you married?
I spent all wekend watching Doria's christmass, Syper gets off the bad list. What are your holiday plans?
WHERE ARE YOU IN 10 YEARS?
aNTHONY
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Are you married?
aNTHONY
Humo(u)r him, Scott... :)
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Scott,
Have you finalized your US plans?
What surprised you the most about The BUDDA/
Have you played TOC?
Have you ever eaten possum?
I went to the beach with two girls one time in a two seater sports car. One was from Australia. Javilin thrower and high hurdler in college. Blonde and and tall drink of water. Perfect. She would put australian pennies in vending machines. The machines thought they were US dimes. She was hot,so is that OK?
Anthony
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Scott,
How many times have you been to the States?
Never, but will be rectifying that next October on the way home from the UK.
What is "Waltzing Matilda" about?
It's about a bloke who is camping in the Aussie bush, and he sees a sheep nearby, so he kills it to eat for his dinner. The sheep's owner rocks up with the police to arrest him and instead of letting them cuff him, he commits suicide by jumping in a billabong (lake), then haunts the area.
Pretty uplifting, huh?
Are you married?
I got engaged last Wednesday. See above for the extended story.
I spent all wekend watching Doria's christmass, Syper gets off the bad list. What are your holiday plans?
With no family here and with most Brit friends heading home away from London for Christmas, it will be very low-key. We want to do a roast gammon for lunch and some potatoes roasted in goose fat, because we tried them last year and really liked them.
We are going to Copenhagen for a weekend in a fortnight to see the Christmas markets they have in the Tivoli Gardens, which are supposed to be awesome (though our trip coincides with the UN climate change summit, so the place will be overrun by politicians and protestors!), and on Christmas Eve we'll go to this Christmas winter wonderland they have here in Hyde Park which has ice skating, rides and lots of German beer and sausage. We went last year and it was great.
Late on Christmas Eve we'll fire up the webcam so I can watch my little nephews open their Christmas presents back home in Aus.
As much as I miss my family, I still prefer a cold Christmas over here to a sweltering summer day at home. It's somehow just more magical. The Brits, it must be said, do Christmas really well, from the Christmas music on the radio to the streets festooned with decorations and lights and store window displays at the department stores. I love it!
WHERE ARE YOU IN 10 YEARS?
The last decade of my life has been so unpredictable, I couldn't begin to guess. I would imagine married and with at least one kid. Hopefully happy and healthy, but living where and doing what? Your guess is as good as mine!
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Scott,
My father did some mining consulting in Australia. While he was there two surfers died from sharks. Do you like a short par three?
Have you met Greg Norman/
Adam Scott's future?
Do you surf?
Top 3 hottest australian chicks?
Thanks for playing and being a big part of GCA.
Anthony
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My father did some mining consulting in Australia. While he was there two surfers died from sharks. Do you like a short par three?
Love 'em. The best three I have played are 17 at Wollongong back home in Aus, 3 at Royal Zoute in Belgium and 5 at West Sussex (I class a short par three as an 8i or less for me).
Have you met Greg Norman?
I have. My grandad took me to a professional tournament at Castle Hill in Sydney when I was three and Norman saw us as he walked off the 9th green, commented to my grandad that I looked like his young boy Gregory and then carried me to the 10th tee. Sadly, the only golfing quality of Greg's that I absorbed during that brief meeting was an ability to wilt like a warm lettuce leaf when I get a good score going.
Adam Scott's future?
Has Ana Ivanovic in it. If he complains about not winning more golf tournaments I will bitch slap him on behalf of all red-blooded men.
Do you surf?
By the look of your clubhead position in that pic from the 3rd at Castle Stuart, I surf about as well as you play golf.
Top 3 hottest australian chicks?
My fiancee, Anna Rawson and Miranda Kerr.
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Scott,
Apparently Australia has several poisonous snakes, Have you seen any on the colfcourse?
What's up with vegimite? What is in it?
You missed a set of my questions......ADD?
I divorced my third wife when she violated our prenup by turning 30. Are prenups popular in Australia?
Have you played Cruden Bay?
Thanks for playing along Scott and for your contributions to CGA.
Anthony
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Do you surf?
By the look of your clubhead position in that pic from the 3rd at Castle Stuart, I surf about as well as you play golf.
Scott, with apologies to Anthony, thats a contender for best reply I've read in one of these Get to Know threads... ;D
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Scott,
Thanks for the answers.
So it is CONGRATULATIONS then! I didn't but I see no problem with proposing over a curry ;D And you are right, its not just an acceptance that you need, but the understanding and encouragement that go with it. It was actually my wife Carole that encoraged me to join Burnham & Berrow (though she wasn't too keen on me rejoining when her folks moved away from Burnham ::) ) and my 30th birthday present from her was a round at St Enodoc (not that you would see that as much of a gift ;D )
I'm no expert on RCP but I did caddy for my brother back in the final qualifying for the 2003 Open so I did get an interesting insite. Funny thing is I would have said that the 3rd, 6th and 16th were probably my 3 favourites. Your suggestions sound interesting. My only one would be to fill in that damn bunker on the 7th thats about 300 yards from the tee, as after a storming start my brother knocked his drive in there and to this day says his caddy should have made him hit a 3 wood ;D
Was teasing you with the sheep thing, but hope you can make Buda,
Always good to see an Aussie appreciate a South African English cricketer,
I agree that professional footballers are pretty much all a bunch of spoilt kids but I've watched it all my life so its hard to ignore it,
A great and appropriate Radiohead quote!
and finally its always good to see someone who loves their job!
We will get you to the "Poster Child" one day!!!
Cheers,
James
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Scott,
You play a lot of golf with Chappers. How does he get away with a 12 handicap?
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Scott,
You play a lot of golf with Chappers. How does he get away with a 12 handicap?
By not playing much medal golf! I'll accept Giles' excuse that he gets nervous in stroke and can't play to his potential, but Chappers has shot even at Prince's, a 74 or 75 at RSG and at least two or three 76s or better at Deal in the past couple of years.
The man can play when he needs to!
He was off 3 as a 15-year-old and tells a story of regularly getting the train to Sandwich in his late teens to play all day on the course for £3! Not a bad arrangement!
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Scott,
You have limited time left in the UK. What courses are on your agenda for the rest of your stay? What is it about them (or what you have heard about them) that makes you want to play them?
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Scott,
You have limited time left in the UK. What courses are on your agenda for the rest of your stay? What is it about them (or what you have heard about them) that makes you want to play them?
These are the ones I will absolutely make sure I see before I go, and why.
Royal County Down and Royal Portrush I have heard far too much flowing praise about both, and I think seeing more "top 10" courses will help me get a bit more perpective with which to view the strengths and weaknesses of the comparitively large amount of Top 20-50 courses I have seen.
Royal Aberdeen According to posts I have seen from Noel Freeman and others, it bears strong comparison to Deal in style, terrain and quality.
Cruden Bay Looks quirky as hell and that par five with the diagonal creek and the 8th hole alone look like they are worth the trip to play.
Burnham & Berrow For reasons explained above.
Royal Dornoch and Brora The Aussie guys speak so highly of these two that I feel it is my duty to see them so I can join in the conga-line of praise!
Silloth For some reason I am really intrigued by this one. That short par three hitting towards the water looks like a great hole. I am going to a friend's wedding in the Lake District next year, so it should be doable - a long trek for one course otherwise.
Sunningdale They call it the best day in golf and the best two course club in the world, don't they? having played and loved some other heathland gems, I want to see the Mac Daddy.
Abercromby's courses I may not get to Bovey Castle, but will make sure I see Worplesdon, Mill Hill, Knole Park and Coombe Hill to add to The Addington. There was a well-planned raid for most of them organised for this month, but the weather and work got in the way.
Swinley Forest So many stories and folkore, plus Colt's own opinion of his work there.
Littlestone and Hayling Just so I will have played all the links in the south east.
Woodhall Spa Supposedly the best inland course in GB&I, and all bar Tony M that I have asked have raved about it.
There is a list of courses as long as my arm that I really want to see either for the first time (Muirfield, Alwoodley, Ganton, Saunton) or again (TOC, North Berwick, St Enodoc), but the ones above are the crucial ones, in my eyes (as of this moment, the list does change a bit from time to time!) that I am confident I can get to in the time I have left.
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Scott,
Let me know when you're going to be at Silloth. I'll see if I can get across for a game.
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Cool, will do.
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Hey Scott,
1. What are the big differences you've noticed in golf culture between Australia and England?
2. Are there any great architectural lessons you feel like you've learned just by playing in England?
3. Tell the truth - didn't you join Deal just because the cooling towers at Ramsgate reminded you of the "three sisters" in the Blue Mountains?
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Hey Scott,
1. What are the big differences you've noticed in golf culture between Australia and England?
I'll second this question, and add, have you noticed a different with respect to architecture? Maintenance?
If you make it to Pennsylvania when you hit the States, I will be most offended if you do not contact me. :)
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Hey Scott,
1. What are the big differences you've noticed in golf culture between Australia and England?
Australia is, by and large, infected by the long rounds that are suffocating the world of golf elsewhere. I won't call it "American golf" because I think that would be short-sighted. While most of the courses I am playing in the UK seem to be run by clubs who view the 3-hour round as something worthy of fighting a war over, I gather from chatting to colleagues and other golfers, that many UK clubs are just as infected by 5hr rounds as those overseas.
But the true culture of UK golf lives on at the RSGs, Deals, Ryes etc - and that is something truly worthy of defending and insisting upon. Forget a stipulated time, just play swiftly, save the chin-wagging for the clubhouse and move with purpose around the course, then go inside and spend the two hours you would have spent working out who was furthest from the hole on two 40ft putts 18 times a round, or walking to you mate's ball en route to yours, sitting in the house with a drink in hand and a smile on your dial.
Too many guys back home go from the carpark to the first tee with maybe a 3min session on the practice green, then from the 18th green to the car and home. The club gets ignored, and that is what makes a club/course worth belonging to. The best club in Australia that I ever called "home" was custodian to the worst course, but that clubhouse was a home away from home for me and the enjoyment flowed through every aspect of my involvement with the course and club, and most importantly, the other members.
2. Are there any great architectural lessons you feel like you've learned just by playing in England?
Respect and use the land God gave you.
I don't believe Rye, The Addington, Deal or North Berwick would be built were the land offered to even the most "naturalist" architect today. Would they be brave enough to build the likes of 3, 6, 15, 16 and 17 at Deal? 4, 5, 6, 7, 13 and 16 at Rye? 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 16 or 17 at The Add? 1, 6, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16 or 17 at North Berwick? Not that some of those holes are bulletproof, but they are examples of ballsy artistic creation with scant regard (at least IMO) for what would be said in response.
It reminds me of how I feel when I look at The Statue of David, or at any one of a dozen of Claude Monet's paintings. They are so beautiful not just in how well-executed they are visually and technically, but in how completely absent of any caution or self consciousness they are. Why? Because the man who brough it to life it knew what he was creating was unique, and without any way of ever being compared, it would stand on its own, judged simply for what it is. That's why I think these historic courses are so timeless, while those contrived by the hand of man are often so easily comparible with one another.
3. Tell the truth - didn't you join Deal just because the cooling towers at Ramsgate reminded you of the "three sisters" in the Blue Mountains?
I do quite like those cooling towers. Perhaps more than The Three Sisters back home. The not so well-kept secret is that no one who is actually from the Blue Mountains actually thinks The Three Sisters are that impressive. Give me Govetts Leap at Blackheath and Wentworth Falls and its awesome, steep bushwalks any day.
When you come for the Boomerang, I'll take you for a drive and you'll see what I mean!
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If you make it to Pennsylvania when you hit the States, I will be most offended if you do not contact me. :)
Philly is on the current itinerary for a two-night stay, and I hope I can drink some beers with you, my favourite foursomes partner Mayday (I have to take Craig Disher in the fourball, sorry Mayday, he won us the game, you see...), Kyle Harris and whichever other GCAers call that neck of the woods home.
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2. Are there any great architectural lessons you feel like you've learned just by playing in England?
Respect and use the land God gave you.
I don't believe Rye, The Addington, Deal or North Berwick would be built were the land offered to even the most "naturalist" architect today. Would they be brave enough to build the likes of 3, 6, 15, 16 and 17 at Deal? 4, 5, 6, 7, 13 and 16 at Rye? 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 16 or 17 at The Add? 1, 6, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16 or 17 at North Berwick? Not that some of those holes are bulletproof, but they are examples of ballsy artistic creation with scant regard (at least IMO) for what would be said in response.
It reminds me of how I feel when I look at The Statue of David, or at any one of a dozen of Claude Monet's paintings. They are so beautiful not just in how beautiful and well-executed they are, but in how completely absent of any caution or self consciousness they are. Why? Because the man who built it knew what he was creating was unique, and without any way of ever being compared, it would stand on its own, judged simply for what it is. That's why I think these historic courses are so timeless, while those contrived by the hand of man are often so easily comparible with one another.
[/quote]
Am I ever glad I asked that question. Great answer.
I'll be glad to do some sightseeing with you, but not sure I want to ride in that cable car with the glass bottom!
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Scott,
1) What are the major architectural differences between the Heathlands and the Sandbelt?
2) Is there anything the Heathlands courses do that the Sandbelt courses should, and vice versa?
3) Do you believe Rupert Murdoch is primarily responsible for the contempt the public generally feel towards journalists theses days?
4) Which course do you think is better, and why - Royal Melbourne West, or St Andrews Beach?
5) What is the major difference in strategy between NSW golf club and Newcastle golf club?
6) What is your second favourite par three on the Sandbelt, and why is it a lesser hole than your favourite?
7) Do you believe Woodlands is better routed than Kingston Heath?
8) Which Sandbelt course is the least architecturally interesting and why - Victoria or Huntingdale?
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Mark,
I presume you know Scott pretty well then... ???
Or are you always that direct?
Brian
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He's never met me, Brian.
1) What are the major architectural differences between the Heathlands and the Sandbelt?
2) Is there anything the Heathlands courses do that the Sandbelt courses should, and vice versa?
4) Which course do you think is better, and why - Royal Melbourne West, or St Andrews Beach?
7) What is your second favourite par three on the Sandbelt, and why is it a lesser hole than your favourite?
8 ) In which order would you place the following short fours and why - Barnbougle Dunes 4, St Andrews Beach 2, Commonwealth 17?
10) Do you believe Woodlands is better routed than Kingston Heath?
11) Which Sandbelt course is the least architecturally interesting and why - Victoria or Huntingdale?
All very good questions. I promise to reply when I have played the courses involved. Can't say it's immediately obvious to me why you asked me about courses you know I haven't played, but there you go.
3) Do you believe Rupert Murdoch is primarily responsible for the contempt the public generally feel towards journalists theses days?
If he is it's only because he's the biggest fish in the pond. There are plenty worse than him in media companies, and in other sectors. The general hatred of journalists doesn't bother me. In fact, I find it amusing more often than not.
5) What is the major difference in strategy between NSW golf club and Newcastle golf club?
I have only played Newcastle once, but it felt to me like the drive was at more of a premium, where I see NSW as largely a second shot course, with the wind causing those second shots to be played from a huge range of distances from day to day.
6) Working at the Daily Mail, which is the more important question to ask Tiger Woods - A) How much can you bench press, B) Do you understand the jive talk in Flying High, or C) What is your favourite sexual position when you are alone?
D) None of the above.
9) If The Australian GC was located in Melbourne, would Metropolitan GC still be as full of wankers as it is now?
If it was still located in Victoria I would suggest the answer is probably yes. ;)
12) Did you say the burger dog looked delicious because A) You like to kiss American Butt, B) You have a fondness for glowing yellow cheese made from recycled chip fat, or C) The glowing yellow cheese was the exact same colour cardigan your favorite GC architect wears?
I said it looked delicious because it looked delicious.
13) You are at Barnbougle Dunes in March 2011 and for your fourball it is myself, Shane, Chris and you. Do we talk about A) Michelangelo's use of subtext at the Sistine Chapel, B) Woodward and Bernstein's choice of source names, C) TWP's use of bunkering for aesthetic purposes, or D) How many NRL players does it take to lift a packet of toothpicks and how can we reduce that number?
E) Boobs and cricket.
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Apologies for overlooking these before, Anthony.
Have you finalized your US plans?
I think so. I'm still trying to work on getting more time, but if the current 24 days we've planned is all we can have, then I think the current itinerary is very close to what we will do.
What surprised you the most about The BUDDA?
The immediacy of the bond between guys who'd not met before.
Have you played TOC?
The Old Course, yes. The Ocean Course, no.
Have you ever eaten possum?
Not that I am aware of, but I've had my fair share of 3am dodgy kebabs and meat pies, so it's certainly possible.
I went to the beach with two girls one time in a two seater sports car. One was from Australia. Javilin thrower and high hurdler in college. Blonde and and tall drink of water. Perfect. She would put australian pennies in vending machines. The machines thought they were US dimes. She was hot,so is that OK?
Australia got rid of pennies in 1967, so you must have aged well!
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2. Are there any great architectural lessons you feel like you've learned just by playing in England?
Respect and use the land God gave you.
I don't believe Rye, The Addington, Deal or North Berwick would be built were the land offered to even the most "naturalist" architect today. Would they be brave enough to build the likes of 3, 6, 15, 16 and 17 at Deal? 4, 5, 6, 7, 13 and 16 at Rye? 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 16 or 17 at The Add? 1, 6, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16 or 17 at North Berwick? Not that some of those holes are bulletproof, but they are examples of ballsy artistic creation with scant regard (at least IMO) for what would be said in response.
It reminds me of how I feel when I look at The Statue of David, or at any one of a dozen of Claude Monet's paintings. They are so beautiful not just in how well-executed they are visually and technically, but in how completely absent of any caution or self consciousness they are. Why? Because the man who brough it to life it knew what he was creating was unique, and without any way of ever being compared, it would stand on its own, judged simply for what it is. That's why I think these historic courses are so timeless, while those contrived by the hand of man are often so easily comparible with one another.
Scott
This is a great answer. Do you think the golfing public would embrace such follies in this day and age or would the archies responsible get the shank? I ask because both Tobacco Road and Lederach seem to be polarizing courses and yet they don't strike me as having gone anywhere near the wild side as some of your examples.
Ciao
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Scott,
Have you read Blink by Malcolm Gladwell?
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You're being rather fallacious describing yourself as a journalist when you work on the Daily Mail, aren't you?
That's akin to me describing myself as an Orthopaedic Surgeon because I helped put a bandaid on someone's finger at work last week.
Unfortunately the thread includes a bit of "get to know Mark Ferguson" as well. This kind of comment seems way out of bounds to me.
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Or are you always that direct?
Brian, as a GCA participant of many years standing, surely you're aware that one of Mark's finer virtues is that you always know where he stands!
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Edit
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Mark,
Are you numb? What page is she on? Three or two?
Anthony
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Mark,
If you're going to rant, rant with authority. The British tabloids may be a disgrace, one thing is for sure, though, the Telegraph is not a tabloid. Also, the Mail is, IMHO, fairly objectionable for it's right wing bias but you do appear to be confusing it with the Sun, or even the Star.
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Scott
What is your (honest) opinion of Londoners and London living?
Congrats on your engagement by the way.
See you at Woking.
Robin
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[/quote]
One thing I have realised through my own experience is that for most golfers, myself included, I don't think the greater enjoyment that width and options bring to the game can be explained, it has to be experienced.
[/quote]
Scott
That is a great quote.
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Mark,
Are you numb? What page is she on? Three or two?
Anthony
Sorry Anthony, that has passed me by completely.
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2. Are there any great architectural lessons you feel like you've learned just by playing in England?
Respect and use the land God gave you.
I don't believe Rye, The Addington, Deal or North Berwick would be built were the land offered to even the most "naturalist" architect today. Would they be brave enough to build the likes of 3, 6, 15, 16 and 17 at Deal? 4, 5, 6, 7, 13 and 16 at Rye? 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 16 or 17 at The Add? 1, 6, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16 or 17 at North Berwick? Not that some of those holes are bulletproof, but they are examples of ballsy artistic creation with scant regard (at least IMO) for what would be said in response.
It reminds me of how I feel when I look at The Statue of David, or at any one of a dozen of Claude Monet's paintings. They are so beautiful not just in how well-executed they are visually and technically, but in how completely absent of any caution or self consciousness they are. Why? Because the man who brough it to life it knew what he was creating was unique, and without any way of ever being compared, it would stand on its own, judged simply for what it is. That's why I think these historic courses are so timeless, while those contrived by the hand of man are often so easily comparible with one another.
Scott
This is a great answer. Do you think the golfing public would embrace such follies in this day and age or would the archies responsible get the shank? I ask because both Tobacco Road and Lederach seem to be polarizing courses and yet they don't strike me as having gone anywhere near the wild side as some of your examples.
Ciao
I've been thinking about this a lot since you asked. I think you'd need the right architect and the right developer, along with the right piece of land. So it's unlikely those three elements are going to come together any time soon, but I do think golfers would embrace it, perhaps even moreso those who haven't played the likes of the courses named above and are having an entirely new experience.
Tobacco Road is one I really want to see. Looking at pics of his courses and reading the interview Ran did with him, Mike Strantz seems like he really had the right ideas about designing golf courses, IMO.
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Mark
"The British tabloids are an utter disgrace - the Telegraph excepted. The Daily Mail was, up to the mid 1990s, a reasonable tome in comparison with its rancid brethren. Unfortunately, now it is more concerned with hysterical accounts of the danger in using buttock fat to make cheese with, Posh Spice's recipe tips for making a single leaf of rocket into a gourmet feast, and promoting Katie Price as a role model for British youth."
I think that other Mark may be referring to the fact that the Telegraph is not a tabloid as implied by your post. It is one of the broadsheets - and one of only two national daily newspaper printed in this format along with the Guardian.
The Mail and the Telegraph both represent the right wing side of journalism but to lump them together as tabloids is quite a long way off the mark. The Daily Mail is certainly full of celebrity trash and has a particular audience in middle England but it is not considered one of the worst of the tabloids.
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Scott
What is your (honest) opinion of Londoners and London living?
Congrats on your engagement by the way.
See you at Woking.
Robin
Thanks Robin, Woking should be great - I'm already excited!
Londoners and London living? Depends which day you ask me!
I find Londoners quite impersonal, which I suppose isn't surprising given it's a huge city. Very, very serious in the workplace compared to back home, too.
But on the flip side, you have people who when asked for directions will walk you there so you don't get lost, or the Indian guy who runs the off-license at the end of my street and chats away about cricket to me for 15-20mins when I duck in to buy some milk...
I suppose it's hard to give Londoners one label, because they are such a varied lot. But the difference between city people and country people here is definitely much greater than in Australia.
London living isn't too bad. I just pick and choose the parts of town to visit, and given my office is opposite Hyde Park and I live in a pretty green area full of commons and stuff I am generally able to avoid the feeling of living in a concrete jungle.
The best thing about London is the proximity to Europe, which gives you the opportunity to, for example, get on the train after work on a Friday and eat dinner that night in Paris or Bruges. For all the awesome golf experiences I've had over here, I've had easily as many awesome non-golf travel experiences - it's a pretty special place and I do feel a bit ungrateful when I moan about it.
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Mark,
As Giles points out, the Telegraph is NOT a tabloid, even on the pedantically correct size criterion. You are ranting with all the authority of a Daily Sport editorial.
It has a tabloid sport section but the paper itself is not. In any event, the Telegraph is almost as bad (and I'll disagree with Giles here) as the Mail for salacious content, it just presents it in a way that might appeal more to it's more elderly, more upper class readership, so why you chose to exclude it (and not the Times which, for all the damage caused to it by Murdoch is not as salacious as the Telegraph) is beyond me. If you wanted to exclude a tabloid it might have made sense had you gone for the Independent which is far too dull to be salacious.
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Mark P: well said. And at least the Daily Sport editorial usually has some boobs close by! Mark F is bringing nothing more to the table than a fully formed opinion built on a half-arsed understanding/knowledge of the papers.
But he did offer us this, which made me chuckle!
No, no, no. My god, if you soaked a roll of Sorbent overnight in maple syrup and baked it, it would have a better flavour and texture than the "bread" that thing was wrapped in. And a hint just in case you get shifted to the restaurant review section - the only thing that is supposed to glow like that piece of cheese is fissionable uranium - not food.
When we have our first game together on the Sandbelt, we can make a stop at Richmond Hill Cafe and Larder on the way, pick up some air-freighted European cheese made from raw cows milk and have a picnic with a nice baguette or two beneath the trees.
We're not worthy!
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Scott
What is your (honest) opinion of Londoners and London living?
Congrats on your engagement by the way.
See you at Woking.
Robin
Thanks Robin, Woking should be great - I'm already excited!
Londoners and London living? Depends which day you ask me!
I find Londoners quite impersonal, which I suppose isn't surprising given it's a huge city. Very, very serious in the workplace compared to back home, too.
But on the flip side, you have people who when asked for directions will walk you there so you don't get lost, or the Indian guy who runs the off-license at the end of my street and chats away about cricket to me for 15-20mins when I duck in to buy some milk...
I suppose it's hard to give Londoners one label, because they are such a varied lot. But the difference between city people and country people here is definitely much greater than in Australia.
London living isn't too bad. I just pick and choose the parts of town to visit, and given my office is opposite Hyde Park and I live in a pretty green area full of commons and stuff I am generally able to avoid the feeling of living in a concrete jungle.
The best thing about London is the proximity to Europe, which gives you the opportunity to, for example, get on the train after work on a Friday and eat dinner that night in Paris or Bruges. For all the awesome golf experiences I've had over here, I've had easily as many awesome non-golf travel experiences - it's a pretty special place and I do feel a bit ungrateful when I moan about it.
Scott
One of my dearest mates used to live in London and he used to bitch right along with me about the place. I always said that London is a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there unless I had a massive disposable income and at least one property in the country. That said, if you are into big city living, London is very difficult to beat. My mate acknowledges this now that he lives in Budapest.
Ciao
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I think you're 100% right, Sean. My missus and I often say that if we had tolive here full-time, there is no way we would be in the city.
If I had a choice of anywhere to live, I'd be torn between a farm just outside Canterbury or somewhere around Stroud, which has to be the most beautiful countryside I have seen in Britain. Obviously the latter wouldn't really be an option if you worked in town.
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I think you're 100% right, Sean. My missus and I often say that if we had tolive here full-time, there is no way we would be in the city.
If I had a choice of anywhere to live, I'd be torn between a farm just outside Canterbury or somewhere around Stroud, which has to be the most beautiful countryside I have seen in Britain. Obviously the latter wouldn't really be an option if you worked in town.
Sean,
It's lovely around Stroud. But if it's the most beautiful countryside you have seen in Britain you need to get to the Lakes, the Northumberland coast, the west coast of Scotland, the Pennines and the Highlands, for starters.
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I think you're 100% right, Sean. My missus and I often say that if we had tolive here full-time, there is no way we would be in the city.
If I had a choice of anywhere to live, I'd be torn between a farm just outside Canterbury or somewhere around Stroud, which has to be the most beautiful countryside I have seen in Britain. Obviously the latter wouldn't really be an option if you worked in town.
Sean,
It's lovely around Stroud. But if it's the most beautiful countryside you have seen in Britain you need to get to the Lakes, the Northumberland coast, the west coast of Scotland, the Pennines and the Highlands, for starters.
Mark
Not me - Scott! If I worked in London I would try to find a way to live very close to Oxford. The countryside and villages in the area are lovely and Oxford has enough going on that its worth living near.
Just to continue the questions, has anyone ever told you that Scotty Warren is great 70s hockey (proper hockey - not that stuff on grass) name?
Ciao
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Mark,
In July we drove Edinburgh > St Andrews > Inverness > Oban > Edinburgh and I can't say the scenery, other than on the Inverness > Oban leg, really did all that much for me.
Sean,
As in there was an ice hockey player in the 70s named Scotty Warren? Or that it's just the kind of name that belongs in that era?!
EDIT - apparently someone with my name invented a hybrid ice hockey/lacrosse game called "icecrosse"...
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Mark,
In July we drove Edinburgh > St Andrews > Inverness > Oban > Edinburgh and I can't say the scenery, other than on the Inverness > Oban leg, really did all that much for me.
Sean,
As in there was an ice hockey player in the 70s named Scotty Warren? Or that it's just the kind of name that belongs in that era?!
EDIT - apparently someone with my name invented a hybrid ice hockey/lacrosse game called "icecrosse"...
Scott,
Indeed, Inverness to Oban is the only stretch there that I'd expect to do a lot for you. That will have taken you into the Highlands and possibly a bit of the West Coast. As a rule of thumb Britain is more beautiful on the West than the East, I guess, though the Northumberland coast is beautiful.
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Sean
...that it's just the kind of name that belongs in that era?!
Scott
Not just that era, but only for a hockey player. I can see you flashing that gummy smile (teeth knocked out - not you have a gummy smile - tee hee) with a splattering of blood (not sure whos) on the shoulder! Yes, you would have been a master with the stick - never drop the gloves. Hmm, Scotty Stickem' Up Warren would have been your working name. While I love the game now, there were some great moments from that era that will never die.
Ciao
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That's awesome! I will never be that cool, so I'll console myself with that image!
My knowledge of ice hockey is minimal, but I had lunch with Chappers the other day and he pulled out his iPhone and showed me a YouTube clip of a GCAer in the most brutal ice hockey fight I have ever seen. It was brilliant.
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As we’re educating Mark F
The bit that made me spit out my pimento and cheese sarnie, is the unofficial GCA ranking that places the Express above ANY other on- line-paper.
Just right now in the Daily Mail online, some of the stories that appear on page one are; Some hirsute reality show judge's painful experience with waxing, Katie Holmes' breathtaking decision to allow her daughter to wear high heels, some bimbo cocktail waitresses claim of an affair with Tiger Woods, and my personal favourite, the one about the former Miss Argentina whose death by buttock implants is surely a cautionary tale on par with anything written by Phliip Dick or William Gibson. The Express, Guardian and Telegraph websites mention only one of those.
If you want a rotten media guy look no further than its current owner.
There’s a biography by Tom Bowyer that he tried to get stopped and it’s absolutely damming. There are people I know well who were sought out by Bowyer but were too scared to talk to him about Desmond, even off the record.
Try this one.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/feb/17/pressandpublishing.dailyexpress
He plays drums in a rock and roll band at society charity do’s, with Roger Daltry singing. It's what makes him a 'philanthropist'.
Hope I die before I get that old.
The Londoner.
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Tony,
I also had a chuckle about MF mentioning The Express that way. I had Desmond in mind when I was thinking of people in the industry who make Rupert look like a saint.
Next time we catch up, remind me to tell you a story about him.
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I think you're 100% right, Sean. My missus and I often say that if we had tolive here full-time, there is no way we would be in the city.
If I had a choice of anywhere to live, I'd be torn between a farm just outside Canterbury or somewhere around Stroud, which has to be the most beautiful countryside I have seen in Britain. Obviously the latter wouldn't really be an option if you worked in town.
Sean,
It's lovely around Stroud. But if it's the most beautiful countryside you have seen in Britain you need to get to the Lakes, the Northumberland coast, the west coast of Scotland, the Pennines and the Highlands, for starters.
And of course Stroud is a few miles down the road from the lovely Cotswolds village of Painswick, home of GCA.com's favorite little course!
In planning my 2010 Buda trip, I actually thinking of a Sept 16 afternoon round at Painswick, the day before the official events kick off at Royal Porthcawl. Who's interested?
Sorry to thread jack, Scott, I'll post this over on the Buda 2010 thread in due time.
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Congratulations on the engagement Scott. I too got engaged last Wednesday.
I am jealous of the amount of great golf you have got to play since you have been in the UK.
Two questions i have for you:
Are you able to forget/ignore your opinions when working on a newspaper like the Daily Mail? or do you find that sometimes it shapes your opinions?
At Deal - which do you find harder 11 or 12 or 15?
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Scott
Congratulations on your engagement.
I'm generally down in London two or three times a year on business. I always look forward to going but I'm always glad to be on the train going home. If it's countryside you're after get yourself up to Yorkshire - it's not all mills, flat caps, clogs and whippets ;)
What has surprised you most about the golf courses and golf clubs in the UK?
What differences are there between the UK and Australian cultures?
What will you miss most about the UK when you leave?
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Congratulations on the engagement Scott. I too got engaged last Wednesday.
Congratulations, Mark!
Are you able to forget/ignore your opinions when working on a newspaper like the Daily Mail? or do you find that sometimes it shapes your opinions?
On every paper I've ever worked, there have been stories that I don't personally agree with. Opinion pieces, it's common and you just accept it. If you think a news story is wrong, unfair or misleading in some way, you argue your case with your boss, sometimes they agree and it gets changed or pulled, sometimes they don't and you just have to suck it up.
I guess I just accept that newspapers are never going to be completely uninterested (as opposed to disinterested) in the news, which is why it's great that a city like London has so many opposing points being made.
Those inclined to can buy, for instance, the Guardian and the Mail and read the alternate views and make up their mind, or alternately - and most people are in this boat - buy the one they agree with and nod a lot while they read things that reinforce why they feel the way they do about certain topics.
I don't think there is anything wrong with a newspaper having an agenda - they all do - because it gives them individual character.
At Deal - which do you find harder 11 or 12 or 15?
12, no question.
11 has always set up pretty well for me, and I find the green one of the easiest on the course - though I played it from up on the sea wall during Buda and it was much more difficult. The fairway bunker feels like much more of the threat from there. I've watched a few people play from up there and almost all have finished in the right rough about 160m out, as opposed to having a 7i or 8i in.
12 just takes my lunch money more often than not, but I love it to death nonetheless. The positioning of the two bunkeres near the green is just perfect, I reckon.
15 is another one that just seems to set up well for me. I birdied it the first time I played it, and I think those first psychological victories and losses can really stick around. It might be because I love blind shots and don't really feel that intimidated by them, but the approach to 15 is one of the easier ones on the course, I think, especially once you realise that missing the green right is infinitely more pleasant than left.
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What about #13? How's it stack up vs say #12 or #15? I LOVED those cross bunkers.
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Scott,
It has been an absolute pleasure meeting you, sharing some good golfing experiences and becoming mates this year. At the danger of losing a mate I have some questions for you!!
You describe Dave Silk - GCA'er and new Deal member - as having a brutal fight during a hockey match. As a respected journalist how would you pen a couple of lines describing this minor disagreement concerning a member of a Royal club??
It is often said the highlight of a young Aussies trip to the UK is seeing his team in Ashes action, how was your Ashes experience??
How many times have you played the 15th at Deal in anger, rumour has it you shake hands earlier??
Kerry is a young, charming and may I say very easy on the eye. Congratulations on your engagement but what does she get out of the deal!!
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How did we allow this thread to get so far without mentioning the Ashes? How remiss of all the English on here.
Scott,
Would your stay here have been more or less enjoyable if it hadn't been an Ashes summer? Did you get to any of the games?
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You describe Dave Silk - GCA'er and new Deal member - as having a brutal fight during a hockey match. As a respected journalist how would you pen a couple of lines describing this minor disagreement concerning a member of a Royal club??
I wouldn't. I have seen the man destroy another dude the size of a small bear with his fists, while ice skatin! I want no beef with Dave Silk, and as such would be putting that story straight on the spike!
It is often said the highlight of a young Aussies trip to the UK is seeing his team in Ashes action, how was your Ashes experience??
Disappointing! The funny thing was, I was braced for a massive ribbing, but it never came. All my English mates were far too humble! I finally asked them what the go was, and they basically said that England has been shite for so long that they don't feel right being vitriolic in victory!
Finally, about a month ago, I met a former colleague of my missus at some drinks and his first words to me are "How much did it hurt watching your shit team lose the Ashes AGAIN?!" how's that for an introduction?! I asked him - he's in his 40s - how it felt watching his side not win an Ashes series for 20 years.
So yeah, the British are a very polite race, but there are exceptions!
How many times have you played the 15th at Deal in anger, rumour has it you shake hands earlier??
Let's see. First time I played at Deal with you I beat you 4&3 or something, I was just too polite to point that out (all bets are off now that you mentioned the Ashes!). Since then, I generally get beaten 3&2!
Kerry is a young, charming and may I say very easy on the eye. Congratulations on your engagement but what does she get out of the deal!!
Very little. Please, nobody point that out to her! ;D
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Scott,
I look forward to your Philadelphia visit.
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Would your stay here have been more or less enjoyable if it hadn't been an Ashes summer? Did you get to any of the games?
I can't say it would have been too different, to be honest. I didn't go to any of the games and I don't have Sky, so I didn't see a hell of a lot on TV. I mostly only saw what was on when I was at work, so the first session and half of the second on weekdays.
I do remember being at the office for that session where we lost 7 or 8 wickets. I think that was at Birmingham? But again, rather than gloat, I recall my mate across the desk looking up at the scorecard as they went to lunch and just raising his eyebrows, saying "well, England is often involved in matches where 7 wickets fall in a session, but I don't remember the last time it happened and we were bowling!"
The only match I went to was an Aus v WI/NZ v Scotland doubleheader T20 match at The Oval. It was delayed by 90mins, so we were on the sauce with urgency by 9am and I spent half of WI's innings (our match was the second of the day) asleep in a stall in one of the toilets ;D
I woke up and returned to my seat in time to see Gayle hit Lee out of the ground (the ball almost made it to Oval tube station!) and then win the match.
So yeah, not a golden summer of cricket for me!
That afternoon did spawn a great quote, though. A TV journo put it to Ricky Ponting that if the Aussies lost their next game they were out of the tournament and Punter replied with: "Yeah, that's right. It's the ultimate motivation, really. If we lose that match we have to go and spend a week in Leicester preparing for the first test, and trust me - no one wants to spend a week in Leicester!"
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Would your stay here have been more or less enjoyable if it hadn't been an Ashes summer? Did you get to any of the games?
I can't say it would have been too different, to be honest. I didn't go to any of the games and I don't have Sky, so I didn't see a hell of a lot on TV. I mostly only saw what was on when I was at work, so the first session and half of the second on weekdays.
I do remember being at the office for that session where we lost 7 or 8 wickets. I think that was at Birmingham? But again, rather than gloat, I recall my mate across the desk looking up at the scorecard as they went to lunch and just raising his eyebrows, saying "well, England is often involved in matches where 7 wickets fall in a session, but I don't remember the last time it happened and we were bowling!"
The only match I went to was an Aus v WI/NZ v Scotland doubleheader T20 match at The Oval. It was delayed by 90mins, so we were on the sauce with urgency by 9am and I spent half of WI's innings (our match was the second of the day) asleep in a stall in one of the toilets ;D
I woke up and returned to my seat in time to see Gayle hit Lee out of the ground (the ball almost made it to Oval tube station!) and then win the match.
So yeah, not a golden summer of cricket for me!
That afternoon did spawn a great quote, though. A TV journo put it to Ricky Ponting that if the Aussies lost their next game they were out of the tournament and Punter replied with: "Yeah, that's right. It's the ultimate motivation, really. If we lose that match we have to go and spend a week in Leicester preparing for the first test, and trust me - no one wants to spend a week in Leicester!"
Hey Scott, you might want to keep that sleeping in the toilet stall bit out of the authorized biography! ::)
Just thinking about your career, young man!
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It was more strategic than anything else! Bought me a few extra hours after the game was run and won!
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Would your stay here have been more or less enjoyable if it hadn't been an Ashes summer? Did you get to any of the games?
The only match I went to was an Aus v WI/NZ v Scotland doubleheader T20 match at The Oval. It was delayed by 90mins, so we were on the sauce with urgency by 9am and I spent half of WI's innings (our match was the second of the day) asleep in a stall in one of the toilets ;D
That afternoon did spawn a great quote, though. A TV journo put it to Ricky Ponting that if the Aussies lost their next game they were out of the tournament and Punter replied with: "Yeah, that's right. It's the ultimate motivation, really. If we lose that match we have to go and spend a week in Leicester preparing for the first test, and trust me - no one wants to spend a week in Leicester!"
Scott,
Asleep in a toilet cubicle? What a classy fellow you are! ;D
And I spent 5 years at university in Leicester! (So I can see where Ponting is coming from ::) )
And I suspect a lot of my fellow Englishmen think as I do. We will occasionally partake in banter of an Ashes nature but the reason you didn't get so much of it isn't really us being polite. Its just that excessive ribbing about the result seems a bit like poking a sleeping crocodile, or whatever the expression is! ;) Afterall, the first time we beat Ponting and his men at home, we lost the next one away 5 v 0!
Cheers,
James
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James,
I suggest we have a game of beach cricket during next year’s BUDA on the beaches of Gower Peninsula so that Mr Warren could show us how Aussies play cricket! And also to show the Yanks how to play a proper bat and ball game!
Scott,
Did you say that you worked for the Daily Mail? – My sister was in a Mail on Sunday magazine article on 22nd Nov. What part of journalism do you specialise in? If you are interested about Golf Journalism – I have a friend who was the ex editor of Today’s Golfer and Fore (now extinct) magazines. He now runs the Golf Magic website – www.golfmagic.com
Going back to NSW – having seen the photos on GCA and watching the Australian Open this morning on Sky Sports – I get the general feeling that the revetted bunkers do not fit in with this course. They are more suited to the links courses of GB & I. What would I do with them – I would create waste like areas and deep camouflage bunkers which would give it a more natural look – examples would be Barnbougle Dunes, Friars Head and Pacific Dunes.
The 3rd hole is a quirky hole – would it be better if some of the trees on the left were removed and the hole shortened into a risk and reward short par 4???
I understand that you are a fervent supporter of NSW as it is in your backyard. I would be the same for Carnoustie and Royal Porthcawl! But St Enodoc???? it is one of the best and most fun links courses I have ever played!! I played it before McEvoy changed the 16th urrrghh! And I am not a fan of 13 and 14th holes but the rest of the course is awesome and unusual you wont find anything like this on the planet. May be a second visit there with fellow GCAers would help to change your mind.
If you ever plan to play Brancaster and Hunstanton or Luffenham Heath and Rutland Water give me a shout.
Cheers
Ben
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Asleep in a toilet cubicle? What a classy fellow you are! ;D
It was purely strategic, truly. I used to do it at work a bit when I was younger and I'd had a late one the previous night. I'd often hit the wall at about 3pm, so I'd go to the loo, put my phone in my chest pocket and set the alarm for 15mins time and that was enough to re-energise me. I knew we were going for tea after the cricket, so I needed a new lease of life. It works a charm, too. I highly recommend it.
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James,
I suggest we have a game of beach cricket during next year’s BUDA on the beaches of Gower Peninsula so that Mr Warren could show us how Aussies play cricket! And also to show the Yanks how to play a proper bat and ball game!
Not a bad idea, that!
Scott,
Did you say that you worked for the Daily Mail? – My sister was in a Mail on Sunday magazine article on 22nd Nov. What part of journalism do you specialise in?
I've spent the past year sub-editing on London Lite, and just recently started working at the Mail Online (same company) after Lite folded. For three years before I left Aus I was editing suburban newspapers and before that was the sports editor at a regional bi-weekly.
I'd still say sport's my speciality, and definitely what I see myself returning to long-term.
If you are interested about Golf Journalism – I have a friend who was the ex editor of Today’s Golfer and Fore (now extinct) magazines. He now runs the Golf Magic website – www.golfmagic.com
I'll drop you a PM!
Going back to NSW – having seen the photos on GCA and watching the Australian Open this morning on Sky Sports – I get the general feeling that the revetted bunkers do not fit in with this course. They are more suited to the links courses of GB & I. What would I do with them – I would create waste like areas and deep camouflage bunkers which would give it a more natural look – examples would be Barnbougle Dunes, Friars Head and Pacific Dunes.
You may well be right. Waste bunkers have come in or been extended on 4, 5, 9, 10, so perhaps that's in in their plans?
The 3rd hole is a quirky hole – would it be better if some of the trees on the left were removed and the hole shortened into a risk and reward short par 4???
I don't think so. For starters clearing scrub is far from easy because it's a national park, secondly, it's still a pretty wide corridor, which narrows a bit the closer you get to the green, but if you take the line down the path off the tee and accept a 160m second, you are hitting into an open area the size of a cricket field. It's enormous.
You could remove the LHS greenside bunker to make it more attractive to flirt with the left off the tee, but really, anyone who doesn't know where there is and isn't space after one or two plays only has themselves to blame.
It's already a risk/reward par four, because the green is infinitely easier to hit with a 8i-W than a 5i or 6i (much moreso than the way any hole is easier with a shorter club), so there is a reason to try to cut off as much of the corner as you can.
I understand that you are a fervent supporter of NSW as it is in your backyard. I would be the same for Carnoustie and Royal Porthcawl! But St Enodoc???? it is one of the best and most fun links courses I have ever played!! I played it before McEvoy changed the 16th urrrghh! And I am not a fan of 13 and 14th holes but the rest of the course is awesome and unusual you wont find anything like this on the planet. May be a second visit there with fellow GCAers would help to change your mind.
I would quite like to play it again, but I don't see why they needed such thich rough immediately adjoining such narrow fairways.
For instance there is that tallish dune about 180m from the third tee, on the left. It's covered in 'lost ball' rough. Now if they cut that rough back, you find your pill and have a blind 130m or so shot from rough with the ball below your feet or on some other sort of uneven lie. From memory it would be to a green that slopes away from you ever so slightly?
Why is that not preferable to hitting three off the tee for all involved? The course has still taken a pound of flesh for a mis-hit drive, but the golfer is given the chance to recover and keep moving.
Any golfer, particularly a 15+ hcp is going to miss plenty of those narrow fairways, so why then roger them with a lost ball, given that in the example I mention above, they are still quite likely to make a bogey on a hole where par is not to difficult?
Without dragging over too much old ground, I thought 4 wasn't even nearly tempting enough to be a great reachable par four, 9 is pretty bland, 10 is ridiculously narrow (again - lost ball rough on a severe slope right with a creek flanking the left: mow it a bit, let them find it then sweat like hell hoping they don't hook it with the ball above their feet straight into the creek), 13-14 I didn't strongly dislike, but they were fairly out of character with the rest (especially 14), 15 suffered for having a road right in front of the green, I thought.
It's not a huge amount of crap, but I thought it just kept interrupting the flow, for me. Loved 1 and 2 has a great green despite being too narrow - then 3 and 4 slowed me up. 5-8 I really enjoyed, then 9-10 slowed me up. 11-12 were fun and suble, then 13-15 slowed me up. 16-18 was probably, neck and neck with RSG, the best finish I have played in the UK behind Deal.
Those are just the observations I made playing it once. I may we way off-line. Though I was alone and stuck behind a slow two-ball, so I had plenty of time for observation and thinking.
If you ever plan to play Brancaster and Hunstanton or Luffenham Heath and Rutland Water give me a shout.
Will do.
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James,
I suggest we have a game of beach cricket during next year’s BUDA on the beaches of Gower Peninsula so that Mr Warren could show us how Aussies play cricket! And also to show the Yanks how to play a proper bat and ball game!
Not a bad idea, that!
Scott,
Did you say that you worked for the Daily Mail? – My sister was in a Mail on Sunday magazine article on 22nd Nov. What part of journalism do you specialise in?
I've spent the past year sub-editing on London Lite, and just recently started working at the Mail Online (same company) after Lite folded. For three years before I left Aus I was editing suburban newspapers and before that was the sports editor at a regional bi-weekly.
I'd still say sport's my speciality, and definitely what I see myself returning to long-term.
If you are interested about Golf Journalism – I have a friend who was the ex editor of Today’s Golfer and Fore (now extinct) magazines. He now runs the Golf Magic website – www.golfmagic.com
I'll drop you a PM!
Going back to NSW – having seen the photos on GCA and watching the Australian Open this morning on Sky Sports – I get the general feeling that the revetted bunkers do not fit in with this course. They are more suited to the links courses of GB & I. What would I do with them – I would create waste like areas and deep camouflage bunkers which would give it a more natural look – examples would be Barnbougle Dunes, Friars Head and Pacific Dunes.
You may well be right. Waste bunkers have come in or been extended on 4, 5, 9, 10, so perhaps that's in in their plans?
The 3rd hole is a quirky hole – would it be better if some of the trees on the left were removed and the hole shortened into a risk and reward short par 4???
I don't think so. For starters clearing scrub is far from easy because it's a national park, secondly, it's still a pretty wide corridor, which narrows a bit the closer you get to the green, but if you take the line down the path off the tee and accept a 160m second, you are hitting into an open area the size of a cricket field. It's enormous.
You could remove the LHS greenside bunker to make it more attractive to flirt with the left off the tee, but really, anyone who doesn't know where there is and isn't space after one or two plays only has themselves to blame.
It's already a risk/reward par four, because the green is infinitely easier to hit with a 8i-W than a 5i or 6i (much moreso than the way any hole is easier with a shorter club), so there is a reason to try to cut off as much of the corner as you can.
I understand that you are a fervent supporter of NSW as it is in your backyard. I would be the same for Carnoustie and Royal Porthcawl! But St Enodoc???? it is one of the best and most fun links courses I have ever played!! I played it before McEvoy changed the 16th urrrghh! And I am not a fan of 13 and 14th holes but the rest of the course is awesome and unusual you wont find anything like this on the planet. May be a second visit there with fellow GCAers would help to change your mind.
I would quite like to play it again, but I don't see why they needed such thich rough immediately adjoining such narrow fairways.
For instance there is that tallish dune about 180m from the third tee, on the left. It's covered in 'lost ball' rough. Now if they cut that rough back, you find your pill and have a blind 130m or so shot from rough with the ball below your feet or on some other sort of uneven lie. From memory it would be to a green that slopes away from you ever so slightly?
Why is that not preferable to hitting three off the tee for all involved? The course has still taken a pound of flesh for a mis-hit drive, but the golfer is given the chance to recover and keep moving.
Any golfer, particularly a 15+ hcp is going to miss plenty of those narrow fairways, so why then roger them with a lost ball, given that in the example I mention above, they are still quite likely to make a bogey on a hole where par is not to difficult?
Without dragging over too much old ground, I thought 4 wasn't even nearly tempting enough to be a great reachable par four, 9 is pretty bland, 10 is ridiculously narrow (again - lost ball rough on a severe slope right with a creek flanking the left: mow it a bit, let them find it then sweat like hell hoping they don't hook it with the ball above their feet straight into the creek), 13-14 I didn't strongly dislike, but they were fairly out of character with the rest (especially 14), 15 suffered for having a road right in front of the green, I thought.
It's not a huge amount of crap, but I thought it just kept interrupting the flow, for me. Loved 1 and 2 has a great green despite being too narrow - then 3 and 4 slowed me up. 5-8 I really enjoyed, then 9-10 slowed me up. 11-12 were fun and suble, then 13-15 slowed me up. 16-18 was probably, neck and neck with RSG, the best finish I have played in the UK behind Deal.
Those are just the observations I made playing it once. I may we way off-line. Though I was alone and stuck behind a slow two-ball, so I had plenty of time for observation and thinking.
If you ever plan to play Brancaster and Hunstanton or Luffenham Heath and Rutland Water give me a shout.
Will do.
Scott
All this rough you speak of must be new. I didn't think it was bad at all the last time I played in the summer. Though two of the hot spots you mention could do with some grim reaper treatment. Left of #s 2 & 3. I understand not cutting back #3 because there is LOADS of room IF you LAY-UP. With a driver in the hands most people need more room left because of the road right and crossing.
You are not tempted to reach the 4th green or the flat short of it? You must be a very disciplined guy! Besides the temptation factor, I think the hole is terrific because the land used is poor. I spose a par 4 could have been built, but the current hole is a much bolder statement - the use of the oob is outstanding.
#10, again, there is loads of room if you lay-up. Unless 1) the hole is playing into a headwind, 2) you can carry the right dune or 3) you are dead accurate; there is no way YOU should hit driver. I usually don't like lay-up holes where the second is longer than the first, but in the case of the 10th I make an exception. First, the lay of the land takes balls well left toward the green so the second shot isn't nearly as risky as you imply. Second, folks bitch about this hole because its not a par 5. That is no argument IMO because changing the par in no way effects the hole - it remains the same.
Like the 4th, I think you are missing a trick with the 14th. This is a marvelous hole created from a poor piece of land. Having the green fallaway is a stroke of genius for this short hole.
You can take heart with your views. I think most golfers see it your way and don't think St Enodoc is a great course.
Ciao
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My missus' folks want to come back to see us next spring/summer and rent a house down in Cornwall for a day. If it goes ahead, I'll post a thread on here with plenty of notice so we can maybe have a GCA day there and I can see what I missed the first time!
14 green is pretty cool, by the way. I did overlook that.
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Scott,
It seems to me that you are an another conservative golfer like Boony!! Last time I played St Enodoc - I cleared the road crossing on the 3rd fairway off the tee! - only had a sand wedge in! and the fourth drove the green risk and reward - it was simple and I got rewarded with back to back birdies! lol. I get the general feeling that in the UK the fairways tend to be narrower than the huge fairway widths in the US!!
Hunstanton has quite tight fairways but Brancaster has generous fairway widths. It varies throughout links courses and I felt the fairway widths at St Enodoc was generous but it is all about plotting your way round. There are many choices of shots - be conservative or take the risk at St. Enodoc. St Mellion is the opposite - one dimensional and the toughest JN course I have played on!
But given the choice I would go to St. Enodoc all the time as it would play differently every time
It seems that nowadays that the European pro golfers are more accurate off the tee than the Americans as there are narrower fairways on the European Tour.
Cheers
Ben
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What about #13? How's it stack up vs say #12 or #15? I LOVED those cross bunkers.
Sorry, Bill. I completely missed this at the time.
I love them when I'm not in them. You know what's funny though? I didn't know they were there for the first 3-4 times I played the course.
I once posted here asking Chappers when they were taken out, because they were still in the Google Maps aerial, then I went back to look at my pics and there they were, so I quickly went in and edited the question out, I think before anyone saw it!
Lo and behind, next time I head down there, there they are!
I still reckon the hole would be better with the RHS one taken out so the really greedy golfer can try to knock it close in summer and when it's downwind, by flying those short traps and risking the bushes and rough right of the fairway, but I am probably wrong!