Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Joe Bausch on August 16, 2009, 06:57:57 PM
-
Wow, this is good stuff. Can Tiger put one inside of him on 18?
-
can someone post a shot-by-shot for 18 for a guy with no sat. TV to watch on?
Following it online is hard.
-
Yang sticks it...game over.
-
Tiger misses his chip from off the green.... now game over for sure unless something extremely strange happens.
-
So Yang makes birdie to win it?
-
YES
-
Yang makes birdie to win. Tiger makes bogey. Wow! Great for Korea and all of Asia. All you GCAs want to build a course in Korea?
-
Scott:
Both bogeyed 17 after both missed 8 footers for par.
Yang just on the edge of the fringe rough with drive on 18; Tiger in right-side fairway.
Yang hits hybrid 3-wood to about 8 feet on 18 -- a really incredible shot with what was on the line. Tiger hits 5-iron that hits green and bounces into the very first foot of rough beyond green.
Tiger hits low chip out of rough and knows right away he's missed it left and too quick, about 8 feet passed hole.
Yang makes uphill birdie putt; Tiger misses for bogey, loses by three.
The 3-wood hybrid by Yang was one of the better shots hit with a major on the line in recent years. That and his chip-in eagle on 14 will be the two shots replayed over the years.
Really good stuff down the stretch under some tough, windy conditions.
-
So Yang makes birdie to win it?
He only needed to par...birdie was icing (at that point...Tiger then missed his putt so Yang would have won with a bogey).
-
Can't wait for the Grand Slam of Golf this year... ::)
Four-for-four in 2009 with disappointing majors. Just to be clear not taking anything from YEY because he played very well. But yeah.
-
no no no...hey yang! it's a wanamaker!
-
So, is that the sound of the golf industry rushing off to get a Korean version of Rosetta Stone?
-
Yang makes birdie to win. Tiger makes bogey. Wow! Great for Korea and all of Asia. All you GCAs want to build a course in Korea?
Y por golf en todo el mundo.
Antonio
-
How many courses are in the works in Asia? I don't recall any being mentioned in Tom Doak's thread.
-
This is good for golf. Is't Tiger asian?
Anthony
-
What's next? ... Will the Earth stop revolving around the sun?
-
Can't wait for the Grand Slam of Golf this year... ::)
Four-for-four in 2009 with disappointing majors. Just to be clear not taking anything from YEY because he played very well. But yeah.
Matthew,,
I was not disappointed, the best man won in each event. The 3 Rescue club shot was as good a shot on the final hole of a Major as I have seen in many a year.
Bob
-
I agree with Bob H. Yang went out and won it with his own hands, can't fault that. Can't wait to see the eagle and approach to 18 on replay!
-
Matt,
I just don't see how someone finally waxing Tiger in the final group on the final day is disappointing.
This makes future majors where Tiger leads much more interesting, imo.
-
For me it's just that the guy I was rooting for in each one didn't win, and in fact lost in painful, heartbreaking fashion. I know not everybody was rooting for the guys I was - in my case it was Perry, Mickelson, Watson, and Woods. I think I wanted to see history in each one. And I realize Yang did produce a sort of history, but Tiger would have produced history too, and I was just cheering for the one who lost.
I don't disagree with anything you guys said - I was just pulling hard for the other guy every time!
-
My hat is off to a great man who won a major with the best player in the game playing with you. Yang you made a shot of a lifeltime when it mattered. Congratulations.
-
This was so exciting. Just for the simple reason that, since Bob May 9 years ago, someone really stood up to TW in a major. It's obvious Tiger didn't have his best stuff today, and watching around 8th hole, when Padraig made 8, I initially thought "ah, here's another major Tiger gets handed to him". Because most of the other guys under par for the tournament were still 3-4 shots back. Glover and Stenson had a lot of ground to make up, Els didn't do much of anything today. Padraig was pretty much too far back after the 8th hole debacle. Vijay's chances went out the window yesterday. The same could have been said about Bethpage in 02, as far as TW winning with a "B" game, although Phil made a few questionable plays there on Sunday. But, still, the golf course wasn't exciting to watch, but the tournament itself was exciting. Yang is awesome. This is good for golf. I'm a huge Tiger fan, I'm in awe of him. But over the past 10 years, it got to be boring to watch him walk away with major after major while the closest pursuers didn't push him at all.
Watching TGC tonight, somebody, maybe Rosaforte, said something about Yang being a Jack Fleck to Tiger's Hogan. Nonsense.
-
This was so exciting. Just for the simple reason that, since Bob May 9 years ago, someone really stood up to TW in a major.
I'm sorry Doug but were you stuck at work last year on June 16th?
-
This was so exciting. Just for the simple reason that, since Bob May 9 years ago, someone really stood up to TW in a major.
I'm sorry Doug but were you stuck at work last year on June 16th?
Thanks for the sarcasm, it's 1am here, yeah, I suppose I'm a little tired, up since 6am and just drove back from the shore and it slipped my mind. And, I was working June 16 last year. Because you've added so much to the thread by calling me out on a simple omission. Give me a break.
-
Let it be officially noted for those who didn't watch.
YE Yang in no way was given, gifted or backed into this thing. He went out and shot lights out on the back 9 with a eagle on 14 and birdie on 18 to stick it to Tiger. That 3 hybrid on 18 was remisnicnt of the gritty Bruin hitting 5w at a certain US Open years ago.
My hats off to YE for keeping it light with big Sunday smiles and turned absolutly assassain on the back 9. :)
-
It was a stunning development, to be sure, but there's no doubt that Mr. Yang earned the trophy this week. On Sunday, he beat Tiger by FIVE SHOTS to win the championship. That just doesn't happen to Tiger. Not on Sunday and not in a major. If Mickelson had done what Yang did, we would all be discussing whether the real competition had finally arrived, but as it is, Yang will likely go down as a footnote.
-
Not to discredit Yang at all....that was one the best final round performances in a major I've seen in my lifetime (Rocco's is right up there too), but we all know Tiger and I honestly would have loved to see this one go at least in to a playoff, like it should have if Tiger really wasn't just playing his "B" game.
Tiger made great shots, even getting more aggressive on the back and just barely missing in several spots, hitting hard and bouncing off into NASTY rough.
But the real problem......
.....I literally counted 11 makable putts, albeit some as long as 20-25 ft, that Tiger missed. And Tiger just doesn't miss putts like that. You can say "oh, everyone's gonna have an off day and miss putts sometime" but in his short and spectacular history, Tiger never has, especially not in the final round of a major, with or without the lead.
So now the question burns......is Tiger falling slightly off his game or is his competition finally catching up to him? I lean toward the latter, as Yang hit some very Tiger-esk shots on Sunday. And should the latter be true, we're in for ALOT more really exciting and suspensful golf in years to come. I'm giddy with anticipation. :D :D
-
How could you say that Tiger missed 11 makeable putts and then turnaround and say that other players have caught up with him?
If Tiger had even a B putting game, he would have won. Tiger has shown time and again, especially this year, that it is not the driver or the irons determine whether or not he is going to win, but it really depends on the flat stick. Even when his other game is off, he can scramble enough to win a tournament as long as his putter is hot. But I really blame his Saturday round for the loss. He played prevent defense and all it did was prevent him from winning.
-
the gritty Bruin
get it right Kalen ;) - its always grittylittle Bruin
-
How could you say that Tiger missed 11 makeable putts and then turnaround and say that other players have caught up with him?
Richard,
You are partially correct.....my comments do seem like a bit of an oxymoron. Coupled with the fact that I am merely saying that the COMBINED competition provided by probably the next top 100 golfers is finally enough to give Tiger a real run for his money. I by no means believe that there is another "Tiger in the making" anywhere on tour yet that can give Tiger a mano-a-mano challange (though Rory McIlroy is peaking my attention), but the level at which Tiger plays I believe has finally gotten the majority of the rest of the players to really step it up a notch....some of them are getting more in shape, some are getting more creative with recovery shots, some are taking riskier shots more often, some are draining clutch shots (like Yang's eagle chip-in), some are throwing absolute DARTS in on every hole. What I'm saying is that the performance level of the Tour, it seems to me, has stepped up to Tiger's challange, and I like it.
Because, while fascinating, it does get rather repetitive when you can walk away for a few hours on a Sunday and come back and Tiger is STILL leading by 5. I've been watching alot more golf purely because of how dramatic many of the wins on Tour this year have been....with and without Tiger.
-
Guys, I just got back from the UGA golf course today, and I've never seen so many Asians on one of the local golf courses before. It was slammed, like 9 different groups, mostly twosomes, most were walking and playing awfully bad. Did anybody else have a similar experience? I wasn't sure there would be much of a blip on the radar after yesterday, but this Yang guy might be spurring on a revolution...
-
Looks like somebody agrees with me...
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32443094/ns/sports-washington_post/
-
Bob H.: I agree with your take on the four majors completely.
Yang's second on 18 was the Shot of the Year. And all four majors were compelling and down to the wire. Perhaps Matt Cohn should get a job as a golf writer on TV commentator, because he understands their view that the results were "disappointing," but that just goes to show that they're far from unbiased and they are unable to wait for the REAL story to be clear. In fact, that's true of all reporting these days ...
Adam: Maybe all those Asian guys are slighly less embarrassed about what you Georgians might think of them today.
-
Tom - I can't tell if you're needling me or complimenting me!
In all four majors this year, the guy or guys that I *really* wanted to win all lost agonizingly. I recognize the big picture of all four of the events, but you can't blame me for being disappointed.
The one difference is that the PGA was exciting to the last shot, while the other three majors felt anticlimactic.
A lot of people were disappointed when the Jets beat the Colts in Super Bowl III, too.
I get to feel disappointed when my guy or my team loses. Golf is a still a sport, right?
-
good to see Yang win...he might never have the chance again
which is the same reason why i rooted for Rocco last year, Mike Donald at Medinah,...........
-
It cracks me up when people say "if only Tiger had his B putting game" or he missed "11 makeable putts, including some 20-25 footers". Are you really serious? How many majors would Phil M have if he could have only knocked down a few clutch 5 to 10 footers? You could make an argument for any high-level tour pro that if they only putted a little better they'd have had a chance.
Adam--how's the UGA course doing? I figure I played about 150 rounds there in the early 90's but haven't played it in probably 10-12 years and obviously not since it was redone.
-
Yeah, if I made all my 25 footers last weekend I'd have shot 75 instead of 90.
-
The difference is, Tiger usually does make at least a few of those, certainly more than any other golfer in recent memory. I don't think anyone was saying he should have made all 11.
The really curious thing is that he said in his post round press conference that he only made 1 putt all day, the one on 14. How the heck did he post a score, not holing out the other 17? Guess there really are different rules for Tiger. :)
-
The difference is, Tiger usually does make at least a few of those, certainly more than any other golfer in recent memory. I don't think anyone was saying he should have made all 11.
but as Brent said George EVERYONE can say i would have shot x if a , b and or C would have happened
a b and or c did NOT happen for Tiger yesterday, so he lost
-
Can somebody please explain the title of this thread to me? Thanks. :)
-
It's a Caddyshack reference.
That was my first thought when I saw the headlines this weekend, Tiger was up against Rodney Dangerfield's partner from Caddyshack!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_I3gHSQD6_q8/SjB20sHpEFI/AAAAAAAAAGg/bYqN743AiJk/s1600/mrwang1.jpg)
-
Can somebody please explain the title of this thread to me? Thanks. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=171FURqSIQc
-
The difference is, Tiger usually does make at least a few of those, certainly more than any other golfer in recent memory. I don't think anyone was saying he should have made all 11.
but as Brent said George EVERYONE can say i would have shot x if a , b and or C would have happened
a b and or c did NOT happen for Tiger yesterday, so he lost
Again, the difference is, Tiger almost always does it.
The rest of us can say, if we had done this or that, and I agree it has no meaning. Tiger REPEATEDLY does this or that, that's why it's not ridiculous to say "If he had only done this or that". I'm not arguing he played well and got bad breaks, I'm merely pointing out why it makes sense to mention the if's for Tiger and Tiger alone (at least among today's crowd).
-
Let's go to the VIDEO TAPE!!!
Here is what Tiger did on the greens yesterday and compared with Tiger Wood's average for 2009;
1st - 6ft miss, tap in
2nd - 15ft miss, tap in
3rd - 35ft miss, 3ft in
4th - 4ft miss, tap in
5th - 4ft in
6th - tap in
7th - 30ft miss, tap in
8th - 15ft miss, tap in
9th - 35ft miss, 3ft in
10th - 12ft miss, tap in
11th - 40ft miss, tap in
12th - 15ft miss, tap in
13th - 15ft miss, tap in
14th - 12ft in
15th - 12ft miss, tap in
16th - 45ft miss, 5ft in
17th - 18ft miss, tap in
18th - 12ft miss, tap in
Putting from 3 to 5 feet: Average 92.79%, Final Round (75%, 3 of 4)
Putting from 5 to 10 feet: Average 61.98%, Final Round (50%, 1 of 2)
Putting from 10 to 15 feet: Average 30.59%, Final Round (12.5% 1 of 8 )
Putting from 15 to 25 feet: Average 13.13%, Final Round (0%, 0 of 1)
Putting from >25 feet: Average 8.63%, Final Round (0%, 0 of 5)
As you can see, he is below his average on EVERY distance stat. Putts from 10 to 15 feet really killed him. On an average round, he probably makes at least 3 more putts, in which case, Tiger would have won.
-
Let's go to the VIDEO TAPE!!!
Here is what Tiger did on the greens yesterday and compared with Tiger Wood's average for 2009;
1st - 6ft miss, tap in
2nd - 15ft miss, tap in
3rd - 35ft miss, 3ft in
4th - 4ft miss, tap in
5th - 4ft in
6th - tap in
7th - 30ft miss, tap in
8th - 15ft miss, tap in
9th - 35ft miss, 3ft in
10th - 12ft miss, tap in
11th - 40ft miss, tap in
12th - 15ft miss, tap in
13th - 15ft miss, tap in
14th - 12ft in
15th - 12ft miss, tap in
16th - 45ft miss, 5ft in
17th - 18ft miss, tap in
18th - 12ft miss, tap in
Putting from 3 to 5 feet: Average 92.79%, Final Round (75%, 3 of 4)
Putting from 5 to 10 feet: Average 61.98%, Final Round (50%, 1 of 2)
Putting from 10 to 15 feet: Average 30.59%, Final Round (12.5% 1 of 8 )
Putting from 15 to 25 feet: Average 13.13%, Final Round (0%, 0 of 1)
Putting from >25 feet: Average 8.63%, Final Round (0%, 0 of 5)
As you can see, he is below his average on EVERY distance stat. Putts from 10 to 15 feet really killed him. On an average round, he probably makes at least 3 more putts, in which case, Tiger would have won.
I think you're overestimating the length of many of those putts, too!
-
but he's had other problems putting recently too...a few recent Masters for one...
there was one Masters when he had great chances for eagle on 13 and 15 the last day, i mean 12 feet or so, and missed them both
you can play this what if game all day: in the 67 Open at Baltusrol Jack hit 61 of 72 greens in regulations but putted like shit and came in 2nd by 4 i think...would a "typical" putting week for Jack had won for him? of course but he putted like crap and lost
Tiger putted poorly, shot 75, and gave it away yesterday...a pedestrian 71 would have won for him
oh, and he hit a bad iron on 17 despit all the announcers telling us how pure it was, blah, blah, blah....all i know is he hit it over the green and made bogey
-
Can somebody please explain the title of this thread to me? Thanks. :)
Please tell me you are kidding.
-
Can somebody please explain the title of this thread to me? Thanks. :)
Please tell me you are kidding.
Geeze, I can't say anything right on this thread, can I? Calm down John. I've seen Caddyshack 10 times.
-
Let's go to the VIDEO TAPE!!!
Here is what Tiger did on the greens yesterday and compared with Tiger Wood's average for 2009;
1st - 6ft miss, tap in
2nd - 15ft miss, tap in
3rd - 35ft miss, 3ft in
4th - 4ft miss, tap in
5th - 4ft in
6th - tap in
7th - 30ft miss, tap in
8th - 15ft miss, tap in
9th - 35ft miss, 3ft in
10th - 12ft miss, tap in
11th - 40ft miss, tap in
12th - 15ft miss, tap in
13th - 15ft miss, tap in
14th - 12ft in
15th - 12ft miss, tap in
16th - 45ft miss, 5ft in
17th - 18ft miss, tap in
18th - 12ft miss, tap in
Putting from 3 to 5 feet: Average 92.79%, Final Round (75%, 3 of 4)
Putting from 5 to 10 feet: Average 61.98%, Final Round (50%, 1 of 2)
Putting from 10 to 15 feet: Average 30.59%, Final Round (12.5% 1 of 8 )
Putting from 15 to 25 feet: Average 13.13%, Final Round (0%, 0 of 1)
Putting from >25 feet: Average 8.63%, Final Round (0%, 0 of 5)
As you can see, he is below his average on EVERY distance stat. Putts from 10 to 15 feet really killed him. On an average round, he probably makes at least 3 more putts, in which case, Tiger would have won.
This assumes that the greens at Hazeltine were playing at the Tour average of difficulty [or the average difficulty of those courses that Tiger played this year], but it looked to me like they were more difficult than the norm. It wouldn't surprise me if the entire field putted worse, on average, than average tour stats.
-
Carl, that would be true for most golfers, however, Tiger is a bit different.
Tiger has played very few events this year (12). That includes 4 majors + The Players and 3 WGC events. Other than the Buick Open, he has not played anywhere where greens were not "major quality".
And we all know that his putting is at least good as any other events if not better during the majors (at least majority of the times).
-
Richard, that's why I included the parenthetical "[or the average difficulty of those courses that Tiger played this year]." I don't have the data, but based solely on watching the tournaments on TV, the players seemed to have more difficulty on the greens at Hazeltine than at BPB and Turnberry, as well as all of the other places Tiger played this year other than Augusta.
-
Richard,
If Mickleson, or Els, or Garcia, or whomever not named Tiger had turned in a similar performance we would be saying words like "choked", "wilted", "crumbled under the pressure".
Why can't Tigers performance yesterday be as simple as that? It was no more complex than El Tigre wilting in Mr. Yang's presence right?
I kinda like that assessment, don't you? ;) ;D
-
Tiger is victim of his own success. Anyone who claims he choked is measuring him against his own unreal performances. No one has putted like him in major championships. Yang won the tournament.
Has anyone noted that Yang's coach is a Buckeye?
-
Tom D. -
We don't think too badly about them. They just look at our hunting dogs in a weird way, that's all ;) It was good to see most parties walking rather than riding the course. especially mid-day with the humidity sky-high...
Jason -
It was my first chance to see the two-year old renovation work. The rate to walk the old track was above what I was willing to pay as a student (they charged the same price whether walking or riding - $40 weekdays). But after writing it off I called today and found a new walking rate of $22. It's a bargain at that price. The bones of the old course are still there, but the greens and bunkers are of a much different look (sharp angled geometric bunker faces plus bigger greens with numerous small ripple contours and big bowl depressions in them). Much more interest around the chipping areas, and better dispersion of tees from ladies to the new Bulldog tees (7200 yds.). It is still an exacting course that is tough to walk, but the changes overall give the place a more upscale, tournament type venue feel. I think that's what they were trying to establish and getting the Nationwide Tour event for next year seems to validate the changes. The approach shots seem more elevated and imposing now due to the bunker shapes hiding a good deal of the putting surfaces. The margin of error for getting away with poor shots is thin, but overall the changes turned an average course into one of the better tracks in the area, something I didn't think DLIII design could pull off having to deal with the existing RTJ routing, which is the ultimate downfall of the course in my opinion.
-
This is good for golf. Is't Tiger asian?
Anthony
I believe he self-identifies as a Cablinasian.
-
The thing you guys are missing about Tiger's putting stats is how many tap ins he had. A few years ago Tiger would never have had tap ins after most of those misses, he'd have a 3 foot comeback because he hit the ball firmer. He was very tentative with his putter the last couple days, like he was afraid of the ball getting away from him, and even left some putts short which he never used to do.
I think part of the reason he "over read" so many putts is because he's not at all used to putting so tentatively and doesn't know how much more break to allow for the ball when you are pacing it to die into the hole. If he'd putted aggressively as he used to, many of the short/medium distance putts could have been putted without giving away the hole and he'd probably have made more of them.
I think the fact there have been a few chinks in his armor where he's actually missed a few short putts this year seems to have made him a bit afraid of the longer ones. Perhaps he's slowly becoming human like the rest of us, in other words ;D