Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Mark_F on May 22, 2009, 06:23:52 AM
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Portsea golf club is at the farthest end of the Mornington Peninsula. Home to the famous Pro-Am in January, the course is a favourite of many Australian GCA'ers. Played over some of the wildest dunesland imaginable, there are plenty of blind drives and uphill approach shots to the smallest greens I've collectively ever seen on a golf course. They're generally fairly flat contour wise, but have enough slope to get super fast.
The other thing one has to consider are the slopes in the fairways, which can be used to kick a tee shot into favourable positions., although some of them can be a bit inequitable, as a well-hit drive and a scuzzled one can end up in a similar position.
First hole is about 370 metres. The yardage book only had the right greenside bunker, but someone has added the other one, presumably to stop balls rolling well off the green.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/Portsea1.jpg?t=1242983516)
From the top of the ridge. this is one hole where drives tend to gather in a similar place no matter how they are hit.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/Portsea1stOverHill.jpg?t=1242983683)
The second is where the course gets interesting. A blind 266 metre par four, with a green angled from left to right over the ridge up ahead. The carry over the left is reasonably easy in any but the strongest wind, but there's plenty of trouble off to the side.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/2ndfromrighthandsideoftee.jpg?t=1242983886)
Spraying the ball right leaves an unpalatable approach over this bunker, possibly from the hollow, to a green with a big slope off the trap.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/2ndholefromwayright.jpg?t=1242983985)
Left is the best line in, but is fraught with danger.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/2ndholefromleftside.jpg?t=1242984090)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/2ndleftofgreen.jpg?t=1242984146)
The fifth, "Twice Blind", is a 401 metre par four with another blind drive. Heading right over the ridge gets a bigger kick off the fairway slope than hitting left. This is taken from around 40 metres forward of the back tee.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/5thfromforwardoftee.jpg?t=1242987598)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/5thfromrighthandside.jpg?t=1242987711)
The bunkers are shared with the sixth hole. From here a faded iron can take the downslope off the greenside bunkers out of play.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/5thnearbunkers.jpg?t=1242984412)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/5thgreennearbunker.jpg?t=1242984499)
Six is a 446 metre par five played from the very back tee. From the whites, it's a rather more uninteresting 360 or so, down and to the right off the back tee.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/6thfrombacktee.jpg?t=1242984599)
They've used the most severe land for the par threes. This is the 151 metre 7th.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/7thfromtee.jpg?t=1242984671)
Eight is another shortish par five just over the yardage limit for a four. The bunkers are around 270 to carry.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/8thfromtee.jpg?t=1242984770)
Even with a good drive, the second still has a semi-blind second to a green angled slightly toward the inside of the dogleg.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/8thsecondshot.jpg?t=1242984864)
From short right of the green. One of the quickest greens. My playing partner last week was two feet above a back middle pin, barely touched the ball and saw it roll almost onto the 9th tee.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/8thfromrightofgreen.jpg?t=1242984947)
Nine is another strong four that may unfortunately become a victim of the new development.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/9thfromtee.jpg?t=1242985025)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/9thsecondshot.jpg?t=1242985105)
Eleven is another blind, severely downhill then up four, 319 metres. Doglegs left to right.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/11thfromtee.jpg?t=1242985190)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/11thfromhill.jpg?t=1242985286)
From around where the average player will hit their second. The bunker on the right is about 260 to carry.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/11thfromsecondshot.jpg?t=1242985323)
Alongside the bunker, it's still quite steeply uphill. Another green where to be above the pin would be unwise, as the ball could almost end up back here. Although with the winds common here, such severe green speeds are silly, as it is nigh on impossible to address the ball without it quivering, especially at this point of the course.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/11thnearfairwaybunker.jpg?t=1242985437)
Thirteen is Portsea's best hole. A driveable right to left and right to left sloping par four of 244 metres, there's little room to lay up, so you might as well go for it.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/13fromrighthandsideoftee.jpg?t=1242985544)
The fairway has a lot of nice rolls which add to the problem.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/13thfairway.jpg?t=1242985602)
Missing right into this bunker can be difficult depending on the pin. A shallow ridge on the front right third of the green complicates matters if the pin is directly behind it as you would need to hit past it to avoid rolling off the front.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/13thfromrightgreenside.jpg?t=1242985674)
Fourteen is a bit of a been there done that affair. Similar in the length to the eighth, it's another right to lefter bunkered on the outside, but more exposed to the wind.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/14thfromtee.jpg?t=1242985781)
Again in a similar fashion to eight, a drive in the ideal position still leaves a semi-blind second. It's 245 or so to carry the bunker, and this is from another 30-40 metres further up.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/14thsecondshot.jpg?t=1242985843)
Further down, some nice rolls in the fairway lead to a well-protected green.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/14thclosertogreen.jpg?t=1242985931)
Fifteen is a mid-length straight par four about 375 off the back. It's yet another drive where hitting over the ridge kicks the ball some 30-40 metres forward. Second is uphill to an angled green with a very well done slight tier. It's a bigger green than nearly all others, so I presume it's a Mike Clayton job.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/15thfromtopofhill.jpg?t=1242986124)
Sixteen is the best par three. Around 160 metres. Very similar to the 11th at Ranfurlie, it needs a well judged iron to a slippery green with trouble all around.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/16thfromtee.jpg?t=1242986203)
Seventeen is a longish four around 407 metres from the back, but runs sharply downhill, to one of the most startlingly small greens in existence. I know real estate in Portsea is astronomical, but still... It makes the 8th green at my former home course seem positively Old Course-ian.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/17thfromfairwaybunkers.jpg?t=1242986379)
Eighteen is a terrific par five to finish. 481 metres from the back, the long hitter can use the huge dune to get a kick into the perfect position.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/18thfromtee.jpg?t=1242986509)
This excellent bunker scheme some 65 metres from the green complicates second and third shots to a green angled from right to left.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/18thlefthandbunkers.jpg?t=1242986588)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/18thrightgreensidebunker.jpg?t=1242986616)
Long isn't much fun either.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj26/fingal_album/Portsea/18thgreenfrombehind.jpg?t=1242986663)
All in all, Portsea's a pretty decent track. Three of the threes are a little ordinary, and the number of similar drives can get a little wearying, but at less than 6000 metres, and with greens that would be smaller than a Wall Street banker's IQ, there's plenty of challenge even without the wind. For fifty bucks, it's a bargain, especially compared to it's expensively priced neighbours some 15 k's away.
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I've only had time to quickly scan the photos, but I already know that I'd love this course. Thanks for sharing, I'll get to your write-up ASAP.
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Mark,
Portsea was likely the greatest surprise of my trip to Australia, a really fun golf course, played over some awesome terrain. I had heard the course was in financial trouble during my round, and I hope they can pull through without altering the golf course substantially. Thankfully, they are in the good hands of Michael Clayton, who has already done an excellent job at improving the golf course.
They were in the process of constructing a new back tee at No. 7 on my visit, which looked like a rather terrifying prospect should the wind be up, how did it play?
TK
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Thanks Mark my only worry is that my memory will let me down before I finally make it to the lan of Oz. Bearing in mind that photo's flatten everything, the movement looks huge.
Ben or Ran cant we have a personal bookmark feature, by country? I would love to play Portsea.
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Mark,
You missed the best hole - from the women's tee at the 3rd to the 4th green.!!
That could be a really intersting topic - fine holes from one tee to another green. For example the hole from the 2nd tee to 3rd green at Kingston Heath is a fantastic par five.
Bruce Grant did the 15th green a few years before we started the design company.A few people had a go at it after it was moved to the left and away from the fence. The tee also used to be against the fence but when the land was sold for housing the hole altered significantly.
This is a great place to play golf but there are plans to alter the course - with another architect.
It is a long story and I am not going there!!!
These include selling the 9th green - a really good green on probably the best hole on the course.
It is a brilliant place to play and great fun - and hopefully it stays both solvent and intact.
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Thanks for the photos Mark. I have always loved Portsea & your photos really do it justice.
I agree that #14 is similar to #8, but I think #14 works well after #13. The 13th is a hole everyone feels they should birdie, but it is easy to walk off with a 5 or worse. It would be easy to mess up the 13th & try to make up for it by slashing away on the 14th only to mess that up as well.
I'm also saddened by the fact that #9 will go. I'll have to try & play Portsea before the work starts.
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Good title - "A Wild Ride". I don't remember many of the holes, but I do remember an overall impression that Portsea shares a common spirit with NSW in that they both seem to go "over", not just "through", the landscape. Similiar terrain at both courses, too. I'd love to see this one again.
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Mark,
Portsea was likely the greatest surprise of my trip to Australia, a really fun golf course, played over some awesome terrain. I had heard the course was in financial trouble during my round, and I hope they can pull through without altering the golf course substantially.
I am not sure how they are doing Tyler, but the fact that they wanted me to become a member must speak volumes... :) The development part is interesting. I think it has been mooted for at least a couple of years, but nothing has yet happened. It would appear to be an awful gamble, as the clubhouse is perfectly fine as is, and there's a rather luxurious hotel a couple of hundred yards away next door.
They would be better off selling the whole lot. That would leave them enough to buy and complete St Andrews Beach, merge it with Moonah Links and redevelop the two courses there, and still leave enough in the bank that even 5% interest would leave fee free golf for all...
They were in the process of constructing a new back tee at No. 7 on my visit, which looked like a rather terrifying prospect should the wind be up, how did it play?
TK
It's terrifying. :)
Thanks Mark my only worry is that my memory will let me down before I finally make it to the lan of Oz. Bearing in mind that photo's flatten everything, the movement looks huge.
Tony, It is huge. It is possibly one course I would recommend playing at a sedate pace, as taking too brisk a gambol up and down the hills can leave you a tad sore the next day or two...
Mark,
You missed the best hole - from the women's tee at the 3rd to the 4th green.!!
Mike,
Yes, that would be a great hole. Hopefully if it turns out right, and they build a decent par three, it will lessen the impact of losing part of the 9th hole.
It's a mystery how come it isn't busier. I've played it the past two Fridays as a two ball, starting mid-morning and finishing in 2 1/2 - 3 hours. For fifty bucks, in that time, it sure as heck beats a hundred dollars and four hours on Moonah Links. Not that it really has anything to do with it, but it's also a nice drive to the course through Sorrento and Portsea too.
I agree that #14 is similar to #8, but I think #14 works well after #13. The 13th is a hole everyone feels they should birdie, but it is easy to walk off with a 5 or worse. It would be easy to mess up the 13th & try to make up for it by slashing away on the 14th only to mess that up as well.
Were you following me last Friday Andrew? ;D
Nine will be sad to see altered, but I think six is being changed too? It's a fantastic drive from the back tee, but not nearly as exciting or interesting further up. Not as good a hole as the ninth, but losing that drive would be a real blow.
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so what is the plan for renovations? I heard they wanted to move the clubhouse and so had to shift the course around a bit. Seems a bit odd given that Mike Clayton did it up only a few years ago
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Josh I believe that Tony Cashmore has been appointed to oversee the redesign of various hole as part of the redevelopment. He is experienced working with established courses including Metropolitan, Commonwealth, Kingswood, Long Island and Royal Melbourne (according to his Wikipedia page). Will be interesting to how it turns out.
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That's a very restrained post, Shane.
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Mark,
Thanks for the photo tour. I have missed something special by not playing at Portsea on my previous visits to the Mornington Peninsula.
Without wishing to hijack this thread, what is the current state of affairs at St Andrews Beach?
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Without wishing to hijack this thread, what is the current state of affairs at St Andrews Beach?
Ash,
Apparently a group have been doing due diligence on a possible purchase for the last few weeks. There are also three other interested parties. I don't believe the first one will get up, or, if they do, it will be back on the market again in two or three years given the problems the industry they are in are currently facing.
I think the place will end up being sold to the National/previous landowner group. The people in charge are proving to be as big a knobs as the previous directors, who pissed off several interested parties who couldn't negotiate with them. Same thing is happening now. They might be the only ones left in the near future, as there surely can't be that many more people interested in buying the place, especially as
one of the titles containing bits and pieces of around 6-7 holes of the Fingal course was sold off a few weeks back, so the situation is even more complicated.
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Hi Mark
Thanks for the info re St Andrews Beach. It is a tradgedy. When I did a course tour it was nothing less than outstanding. Given time I think it would have been one highest regarded courses in Australia.
Let us hope that somebody buys the place and can sustain the operation.
From what you said the second 18 will not be built, that is also a shame.
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Thanks for the pics Mark. I've always heard good things about Portsea but never set foot on the site. Its on the list.
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That's a very restrained post, Shane.
As always Mark :). Hopefully the changes are of a higher standard than his past work.
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Thanks for the pics Mark. I've always heard good things about Portsea but never set foot on the site. Its on the list.
how longs that list :D
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Mark
Portsea #16 (the par 3 that you liked, that reminded you of Ranfurlie #11 I think) is a Mike Clayton hole. He was too modest in his response to mention that. Previous to that build, I believe the course went from what is now #15 green to #17 tee. Hard to imagine, isn't it. I think #15 used to comprise a par 3 and a par 4.
Portsea #2 is a very interesting hole, linking the areas of ground more suited to golf. A challenging hole that enables so much more of the routing to work. Portsea #13 also does this but with better ground to work with. An absolutely first class hole.
James B
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James.
The original 17th tee was short and right of the current 16th green.It was a short par four - hence the small green Mark commented on - where you had to hit a high hook with a three wood up and over the cypress trees about 100 yards off the tee.
We thought the back nine needed a strong par four - given 10,11,13 and 15 are all under 380 yards - and the walk would have been far too long from the old 15th - current 16th green to the ideal place for the 17th tee
There were boundary issues with the old par three 15th and we simply replaced that hole with the new 16th - which made for a reasonable walk to the new 17th tee.
13 was an atrocious hole and I think we did a great job to make it ' hold its head up in polite society'
There were no bunkers, the green was blind from the tee because of the same group of cypress left of the old 17th tee shot and the fairway sloped so sharply that almost every ball that did not fly at least 200 yards ran all the way across the slope and into the trees.
For better players the hole is much better from the rarely used back tee. The layup to the flat section of fairway on the right is a 2 or 3 iron as opposed to a four or a five and it takes a great drive to reach the green - a little like 10 west at RM
From the forward tee you almost have to go at the green - but from the back one it is a difficult decision.
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Mark,
Thanks for taking the time to post about Portsea. It was one I would have liked to have seen on my trip down, but there just weren't enough days to fit it in.
Any new projects down there that are highly anticipated?
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James,
It isn't so difficult to imagine the older version journey of 17 tee from the old 15th green - Portsea is the ideal cartball course, after all. ;)
2 is a ripper - perfect length for a blind short par four. Any longer and I don't think it would work as well, similar to 3 at Royal Adelaide, but at that length, tempting to have a go.
I know Mike designed both 16 at Portsea and 11 at Ranfurlie. I was just fishing. ;) They are similar, but Portsea's is the superior hole. It's a pity Portsea's three other par threes don't match the high quality of 3, 7 and 15 at Ranfurlie - hopefully Cashmore can accomplish something with the new hole he creates.
Ed,
No worries. It's a pity you couldn't fit everything in. You and David would have liked Portsea. You should have skipped National Moonah and played there instead. :) Especially as those small greens at St Andrews Beach would have had you in perfect form for the really small ones at Portsea.
I think only Barnbougle Two is the only thing going on. There's an article in a current issue of an Australian golf magazine which details Mike Clayton's work at The Lakes in Sydney, and that looks really interesting. Fingal course is still years away. :o
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Ed,
If I can chime in -
Greg Norman's group is completing s new course in the western suburban outskirts of Sydney.
Stonecutter's Ridge is it's name. Slated for opening in early 2010.
That and The Lost Farm seem the only exciting greenfield projects on at the moment in Oz.
It seems more of the restoration / renovation type work is on offer currently.
MM
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I heard some stuff about that new Forest Resort place, but I haven't been able to find a review on it...
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Is Stonecutter's Ridge really deserving of the word "exciting" Matt, or are you just practicing flowery prose for when I get you into Capital?
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Gentleman,
What about Mike Clayton's course in Tasmania. I thought that was due to open in 2010 or has it suffered from the recession.
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Isn't Bill Coore designing Barnbougle 2/The Lost Farm?
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You mean Musselroe Bay in the north-east of Tasmania Ed.
I think that is still some time away, but Mike can certainly clarify.
MM
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With so many of these projects failing to get off the ground during the boom, I don't expect many to fare better during a recession.
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From the Herald Sun today...
Golfing gem in rough
Mark Hayes Herald Sun February 27, 2010
THE future of one of Victoria's premier golf courses is threatened. The Portsea Golf Club, 49th in Golf Digest's Australian rankings, has changed its revered layout as it sells off prime land to finance a plan for a new $12 million clubhouse and on-course accommodation.
But a growing number of members are worried slow sales will financially cripple the club before the project is complete.
They are also angered that the only block sold in the past two years has been on the course's ninth green, requiring the shortening of that hole, the realignment of the nearby 10th and closure of the practice range, which also forced club professional Ross Moodie to leave because he had nowhere to teach.
Club president Chris Duffy has sent a letter to members expressing concern about "destabilising" rumours that have "the potential to divide the club and threaten its very survival".
But 15-year member Trevor Grant, a former Herald Sun writer with a 40-year involvement in golf, said there were more to fears than just club politics.
"There is growing concern within the membership about whether the venture will succeed," he said when contacted.
"It's the product of the goalposts changing several times since the original project was put before the members in 2006."The sudden sale of the ninth green after it was promised it would only be sold as a last resort has certainly heightened these worries for me."
But Mr Duffy, who has planned information "workshops" in two weeks, said critics were still in the minority, but admitted there were more than when the initial vote was taken in 2006.
"They are totally scurrilous rumours from a vocal minority who have always doubted the project," Mr Duffy said.
"We have the total support of our bank ... these people should rally around the majority decision for the good of the club."
Get in and play it now.
MM
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They would be better off selling the whole lot. That would leave them enough to buy and complete St Andrews Beach, merge it with Moonah Links and redevelop the two courses there, and still leave enough in the bank that even 5% interest would leave fee free golf for all...
This would still be the best plan, Matthew.
Portsea won't be worth keeping if they bugger around with it too much. Nine was a really good hole.
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This would still be the best plan, Matthew.
...might require some compromising photos of Justin Madden to work Mark!
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...might require some compromising photos of Justin Madden to work Mark!
Chris,
I'll get to work on them right away...
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That looks like a GREAT course, thanks for the pics....