Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Joe Bausch on April 20, 2009, 01:58:51 PM
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Although RiverWinds has been around for about 7 years now as a daily fee course just across the river from the Philadelphia International Airport, I only recently made it there. For the last couple of years the word on the street was the course had conditioning issues. Recently the group led by ex-Iggle Ron Jaworski bought the course and are busy this spring whipping it back into shape.
I played it about 2 weeks ago and found the conditions to be acceptable and clearly improving. Many of the bunkers have been polished up, and not many are left for rehabbing. Some of the greens are brown in spots (not the bad dead and sandy condition), in particular in the most contoured areas. However, it makes it easier to see the various tiers on many of the greens in the pics below.
A very quirky aspect of the course is that you park and check in where the indoor tennis courts are located. The course is very easily walked, but you must hike about 1100 yards to get to the first tee! Since their rates (currently 39 bucks) include a cart, I recommend using the cart to get out to the first tee, then walk the course and jump back in the cart to return to the parking lot after the round.
RiverWinds opens with a fairly simple dogleg right par 5.
From short of the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No1a.jpg)
From over the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No1b.jpg)
165 yard par 3 2nd:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No2a.jpg)
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No2b.jpg)
No 3: 416 yard par 4.
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No3a.jpg)
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No3b.jpg)
No 4: dogleg right par 5, 477 yards
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No4a.jpg)
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No4b.jpg)
No 5 is a long (446 yard) par 4 with water in play left off the tee, and it creek runs up left to the green to more water:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No5a.jpg)
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No5b.jpg)
The 6th is a dogleg left par 4 (381 yards) where you must be far enough right in the FW to have an unobstructed view of the green. Here is a view from just short of the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No6a.jpg)
And this view from over the green shows the mound at the inside of the bend that makes drive placement important:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No6b.jpg)
A longish (200+ yards) par 3 is next, playing slightly downhill to a two-tiered green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No7a.jpg)
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No7b.jpg)
The view from just short and right of the 8th hole, a 422 yard par 4:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No8a.jpg)
The ninth requires a drive over water and deciding how much of the dogleg to bite off. It is only about a 225 yard carry over the water just to the right of the concrete drain left in the first photo, and the bunker through the FW taking a more conservative line is in play (I know, I went in it!).
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No9a.jpg)
The view for a 2nd shot to the elevated and very deep green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No9b.jpg)
From over the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No9c.jpg)
The back nine begins with a neat dogleg left par 5 that big hitters may be enticed to reach in two, but the 2nd shot better be precise as the green is just across a diagonally angled creek.
The view from the drive landing area:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No10a.jpg)
For most people, their view for their 3rd shot (yeah, plenty of earth was moved to shape the course, but I really like this green site):
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No10b.jpg)
From the back of the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No10c.jpg)
The 11th is a par 4 with big hitters perhaps able to reach another creek not really in view from the tee:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No11a.jpg)
A view from left and long of the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No11b.jpg)
The 12th is a slightly uphill shortish par 4, with the best line for the drive close to those right FW bunkers:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No12a.jpg)
From short of the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No12b.jpg)
The 13th is a almost 600 yard par 5, slight dogleg right, where you can pretty much wail away on both the drive and 2nd shot if you wish. Here's the view from the dogleg:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No13a.jpg)
On the 14th, a 381 yard par 4, the second shot has this view, not the only time on the course a crossing bunker is used near a green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No14a.jpg)
From over the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No14b.jpg)
The view from the tee on the 162 yard par 3:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No15a.jpg)
And from over the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No15b.jpg)
A good drive on the 354 yard par 4 16th leaves this view:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No16a.jpg)
A view back down the fairway from just right of the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No16b.jpg)
The 'signature hole' (groan) for RiverWinds is this peninsula par 3 17th, playing about 140 yards and downhill:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No17a.jpg)
The view from over the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No17b.jpg)
And from near the 18th tee is this view to the green:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No17c.jpg)
The 18th at RiverWinds is the #1 handicap hole, a par 4 of 391 yards. The back tee is very elevated and gives this view:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No18a.jpg)
And here is the view from the back right part of the green (clearly the spot for a 'Sunday pin'):
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No18b.jpg)
Overall I was very happy with RiverWinds. At 39 bucks, it is good value and will improve if the efforts being made currently on conditioning are successful.
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I've played this course about 10 times over the years. The last time was in October 2008 and the conditions were horrible. This course needs a lot of TLC and a modest clubhouse near the first tee- even something like the temporary trailers that have been used at Center Valley for many years. Jaworski is turning into a golf entrepreneur. He also bought the private Running Dear in South Jersey and plans to upgrade that course as well. I won't return to Riverwinds until the summer and give them a chance to get things right. It's a good place to meet my friends from NJ for some golf and the course is above average when it's in proper condition. There's a good cheesesteak place nearby too.
It looks like Jaworski has an option to buy the course while his company manages it:
http://www.nj.com/gloucester/index.ssf?/base/news-4/123571232984560.xml&coll=8
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Steve, I think the condition of the course is acceptable right now. The fairways are lush (sure, I would like them to be a bit firmer, but it had rained recently), many of the traps have been refurbed, and the greens might not look great in spots, but they putted just fine. One of my trusty golfing friends that knows a bit about maintaining a golf course took a look at the pics and thinks it might not take long at all get the greens back in tip-top shape.
Oh yes, here is the photo album I put together on Riverwinds that contains all 149 photos I saved from the trip:
http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds/
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It's been painful to hear the rumors about the decline of Riverwinds. I've always thought highly of the course, particularly at its price point, but have not returned to play in the last few seasons after hearing too many horror stories from reliable sources.
I was happy to hear that Jaworski stepped in to bail out the course, although if the heavy-handed cheesyness he uses when promoting his Valleybrook course is any indication, the salvation of Riverwinds will come at a price. However, with no clubhouse to improve perhaps we will be spared the compelling business updates, such as this one:
http://www.valleybrookgolf.com/Details.aspx?AlbumID=9&Page=0
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Here's the routing for RiverWinds. You park your car in the lot at the bottom left of the photo. It appears there is land up near the 1st tee for a clubhouse, so maybe some day that will happen.
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/Rwinds_routing.jpg)
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Looks good Joe. Very playable, a bomber's paradise (in winter anyway) judging from your pictures.
The quality of the design looks to be impressive as well. Any accolades since its opening?
I'm curious, does the walk from 8 green to 9 tee feel at all dangerous, eg in the line of fire from 1 or those playing behind you on 8? In aerials it is always difficult for me to discern how much room there really is between holes.
Thanks again for another quality tour from the vaults of the Joe Bausch Mobile Studios.
Eric
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Looks good Joe. Very playable, a bomber's paradise (in winter anyway) judging from your pictures.
The quality of the design looks to be impressive as well. Any accolades since its opening?
I'm curious, does the walk from 8 green to 9 tee feel at all dangerous, eg in the line of fire from 1 or those playing behind you on 8? In aerials it is always difficult for me to discern how much room there really is between holes.
Eric, that #9 tee is sort of protected by some mounding, etc, as this view from #9 FW looking back to the tee shows:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No9d.jpg)
I believe RiverWinds is currently in Golfweek's top 15 courses you can play in New Jersey:
1. Atlantic City CC, Northfield (c)
2. Ballyowen, Hardyston (m)
3. Twisted Dune, Egg Harbor Township (m)
4. Sand Barrens, Swainton (m)
5. Pine Hill GC, Pine Hill (m)
6. Scotland Run, Monroe Township (m)
7. Architects Golf Club, Lopatcong (m)
8. Wild Turkey GC at Crystal Springs Resort, Hardyston (m)
9. Neshanic Valley, Neshanic Station (m)
10. Hominy Hill, Colts Neck (m)
11. Royce Brook (East), Somerville (m)
12. Vineyards at Renault Winery, Egg Harbor Township (m)
13. Seaview (Bay), Absecon (c)
14. RiverWinds, Thorofare (m)
15. Sea Oaks, Egg Harbor Township (m)*
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Put me down as a fan. Glad to hear conditions are improving. I love the fairway bunker on 16.
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Yes it appears there's plenty of room there in that pic. Thanks Joe and thanks too for the golfweek list.
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I played Riverwinds a few years ago and it was a pretty fun course. Conditions were okay at that time. I heard Jaworski bought it. I have not been back to play his course Running Deer. I played Running Deer about a year ago before Jaworski bought it and I would honestly say it was the worst conditioned course I ever played!!! You would have been better off finding a land fill in NJ and teeing off and making holes out of beer cans than playing Running Deer. Hopefully Jaworski can turn it around.
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Joe,
Thanks for the pics. I played Riverwinds when the course started on what is now the 2nd hole and finished on the first. I have always really liked the course. They have struggled with poor conditions for ahwile now - glad to here that they are under new ownership and the course is improving.
Chris
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Having just played the worst tree offending course I know of this weekend it helps me to understand why I like a modest course like Riverwinds. I just can't stand covering over intended lines of play. Nothing kills the fun factor more.
As we were pitching out from among the evergreens for the umpteenth time on the last hole I couldn't resist asking my host if he would like one comment about our predicament. We were downhill with about 100 yards to go coming in from the right side which would have required a shot over two volcano type bunkers to a back right pin with a severe falloff beyond the green. And the greens were hard and fast. Because of the trees we had only one shot. He agreed as we both hit our 7 irons under the trees to about 25 yards from the green.
Of course you can hit it all over the place most of the time at Riverwinds but the designer then gets to do his job by creating challenges for you. There are a few holes where precision is called for and that adds to the variety.
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Joe,
Thanks for pics ! Perfect timing as I was just asking someone on here for some help with philly area courses . I had never heard of this course untill someone told me about it just yesterday . I couldn't find much and voila here you start this thread. I am def going to give it a shot as I will be in philly more frequently now.
Brad
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Joe, thanks for the tour. I first spotted RiverWinds last month while flying into Philly. It looked really interesting from the air so I pulled it up on Google Earth and then searched the archives for prior threads. Found a couple that were lukewarm at best. Based on your pictures, I can't really see why.
Ed
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Ed,
The problems with Riverwinds are the lack of decent conditioning during the past 3 years and the lack of facilities. Hopefully, new management will attend to these problems promptly. The course itself is fun to play when it's fast and firm and the bunkers have sand in them. At all costs, avoid the deep bunker on the right of 18 green.
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i always thought that this course would be a good purchase for the harrahs casino which is just across the river. Maybe a hotel and conference center with water taxis to and from casino and airport.
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Always curious about RiverWinds, since the entrance road to the course starts about a gap wedge from where I lived late '92-early '94. The course, those nearby ballfields, & housing weren't there then, though.
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Joe, et al:
Can someone tell me if real sand is now in the frontal bunker at #17 -- I never really learned to hit the full dirt explosion shot !
I like the layout but the elevated tee at #18 is a man-made disaster. Yes, it provides views but it's clearly out of place and character.
Are the green speeds now beyond the 5-foot shoulder-turn routine that I experienced a few years back?
It's possible the layout could get a top 15 position but Mike M said it right -- they need to show a real desire to straighten all things out. Be happy to play there again later this year to see firsthand.
Maybe getting a group of people to play there would be a real plus !
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Here's the routing for RiverWinds. You park your car in the lot at the bottom left of the photo. It appears there is land up near the 1st tee for a clubhouse, so maybe some day that will happen.
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/Rwinds_routing.jpg)
Why not just start the course with the No. 2 hole and then play from there? That would reduce the long walk to the first tee and back from the 18th green.
How many courses in the US start with a par 3 hole? It could be a unique trait.
Is there a driving range? If not then they could put one in the area next to the first hole and ruin the views.
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No driving range yet. Just an astroturf mat and a net. The alleged putting green is about the size of a kitchen table. This place needs TARP money.
The original developer had plans for a hotel and conference center. Just like the clubhouse that was proposed, it never got off the ground. If Harrah's Casino across the river in Chester ever built a hotel with waterboat access, I'd be shocked. Now, on the other hand, there are 2 other casinos planned upriver in Philadelphia and if they want to do a joint venture with Harrah's....
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I played Riverwinds a few years ago and it was a pretty fun course. Conditions were okay at that time. I heard Jaworski bought it. I have not been back to play his course Running Deer. I played Running Deer about a year ago before Jaworski bought it and I would honestly say it was the worst conditioned course I ever played!!! You would have been better off finding a land fill in NJ and teeing off and making holes out of beer cans than playing Running Deer. Hopefully Jaworski can turn it around.
Running Deer was in good condition when I played it for the first time this past Thanksgiving Day.
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I had played Running Deer last summer. Maybe Jaworski's group had bought it by Thanksgiving. I remember thinking the course could be pretty good, but the day I played it, I could not even find the ball in the fairway a few times because the grass was so high! Forget it if your ball went in the rough. Hopefully they have gotten it in better shape.
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Scott,
If you see my post above, when I played Riverwinds several years ago, it started on the Par 3 second hole, I do not remember when that was. As for courses that start with par 3's:
Winchendon School GC Winchendon, MA starts with 2
Mount Lebanon GC Mount Lebanon, PA starts with 1
Black Bear GC Vanderbilt, MI starts with a bye hole par 3
Chris
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Scott,
If you see my post above, when I played Riverwinds several years ago, it started on the Par 3 second hole, I do not remember when that was. As for courses that start with par 3's:
Winchendon School GC Winchendon, MA starts with 2
Mount Lebanon GC Mount Lebanon, PA starts with 1
Black Bear GC Vanderbilt, MI starts with a bye hole par 3
Chris
Pacific Grove starts with 2.
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One thing I really notice about this course is that the fairway and greenside (often behind green) mounding seems to just appear in the rough but their lines don't carry through the greens or fairways. Sometimes it looks like the mounding is starting so far off line that it would look dopey for the lines to carry through, but I would think that if such extensive mounding is worth building a significant percentage of it should seriously influence fairway and green play rather than acting as mainly framing.
Here are a few examples.
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No1a.jpg)
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No3b.jpg)
Now here are a few examples where the mounding rides down to the fairway or green and really influences play.
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No15b.jpg)
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Riverwinds4GCA/No6a.jpg)
Ciao
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We in Australia also have a few designers who frequently find sites where the green complexes seem to naturally fall among unique terrain of evenly proportioned chocolate drop mounds. All the more impressive when taken into account that the site's surroundings have no such fortune in boasting such delightful features.
Tongue out of cheek and referencing what has been said above, I find it a crime that such movement is restricted to cheap looking framing and corridor banking and plays no part in the contouring on and around the putting surfaces or down the centre lines of play.
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I played Riverwinds today for the first time this year. Ron Jaworski's company has now been in charge for the entire summer. I am saddened to report that bunkers on the back nine are in terrible condition. The 3 bunkers surrounding the 10th green were unplayable as they were all lakes as were the greenside bunkers on 11 & 12. The left greenside bunker on 13 was a lake and unplayable.The fairway bunkers on the right side of 14 were horrendous as there was no sand at all and grass was growing high inside. It looked like the bunkers on the right side of 18 green had been cleaned up and looked good. I did not have my camera. I wish I did.I had heard that things were improving there. Apparently not.There is much to be done there. I won't return.
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I played Riverwinds today for the first time this year. Ron Jaworski's company has now been in charge for the entire summer. I am saddened to report that bunkers on the back nine are in terrible condition. The 3 bunkers surrounding the 10th green were unplayable as they were all lakes as were the greenside bunkers on 11 & 12. The left greenside bunker on 13 was a lake and unplayable.The fairway bunkers on the right side of 14 were horrendous as there was no sand at all and grass was growing high inside. It looked like the bunkers on the right side of 18 green had been cleaned up and looked good. I did not have my camera. I wish I did.I had heard that things were improving there. Apparently not.There is much to be done there. I won't return.
Coincidentally, Steve, I played it for the first time on Tuesday. I almost contacted you afterwards to let you know it was in poor condition, since we had talked about playing it. Unfortunately, I flaked. I am a little surprised to hear that the bunkers had not dried out since Tuesday, since we hadn't gotten rain since then. Admittedly, the course probably got 4 inches or so over the weekend. The front 9 bunkers were not much better than the back nine. I hasten to add, that there were, in fact, several bunkers on the course that were playable. But since I only hit one bunker all day, it wasn't thaaaaat bad of a place to play. The greens were puttable, although the firmness varied greatly from hole to hole. The rest of the conditioning of the course was no worse than mediocre. One could expect to find grass underneath one's ball usually, unlike Golden Pheasant, which I played today.
Riverwinds remains a nice layout in need of TLC.
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We submitted a proposal to manage the course and made it clear that we had no interest in acquiring it. I suspect one reason Jaws & Co. were selected was the fact that they told the Township that are interested in buying it. COnsidering the debt on the property and the capital rquirements to build a driving range and clubhouse a purchase makes no economical sense. Was Jaws leading the Township on???
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I played Twisted Dune yesterday and, similar to Riverwinds, seemingly half the bunkers were lakes. Also, Twisted was playing slow and soggy, not fast and firm, as would be suitable there. Maybe, since Twisted Dune is a favorite on this board, we should blame the weather and give Riverwinds a get out of jail free card. Or maybe we should wonder what is going on at Twisted Dune. The good news is that if there is an outing at Twisted Dune around Walker cup time, it should be in better condition since there is no rain in the forecast this week.
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Riverwinds is apparently back from the brink. Still no clubhouse or range yet. Conditions have improved. I'll believe it when I see it:
http://westdeptford.patch.com/articles/riverwinds-golf-course-back-from-the-brink
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When I played Glen Mills a couple of months ago 2 of the gentleman I played with were ex-regulars at Riverwinds. Both were nice guys and said they had been playing it since day 1 but they weren't seeing positive improvements and they thought Jaworski had over extended himself with his courses. I don't know how true any of this was but talking to people around there Jaworksi's course empire seemed to be very polarizing from folks. Talked to folks who considered him a savior and others who thought he was destroying a few courses.
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I was really looking forward to an improved Riverwinds. The wide open nature of the course and a blend if I recall of hard and easy holes really gives the course some potential. They have some pretty good GolfNow deals for afternoon golf if anyone wants to check it out in the coming weeks.