Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: John Blain on February 25, 2009, 08:06:35 AM
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From ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=3932116
-John
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He makes some good points. I just mentioned the purse thing in the Northern Trust thread, too. Makes sense to me.
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Perhaps to fuel the growth of the European Tour???
PGA Tour Pros (like many professional athletes) will go where the money takes them. They are not exactly loyal to memberships.
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Greg would say that now, but I wonder what he would have said when he was 25 and struggling to get onto the PGAT.....?
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I would think the pain simple economics will take care of this, with the PGA Tour being the last tour to be affected, but when it happens, it will be dramatic.
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with the PGA Tour being the last tour to be affected
An interesting assumption. Why will the PGA Tour be the last tour to be affected. Is the recession less bad over there?
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with the PGA Tour being the last tour to be affected
An interesting assumption. Why will the PGA Tour be the last tour to be affected. Is the recession less bad over there?
The PGA Tour is more popular and better attended than any other tour. Maybe that is why. I do agree that players should consider smaller purses. 10-20% would certainly make sense.
I think baseball and football are making huge mistakes by not reigning in their salaries now. You could not get me to pay to see those guys play.
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I think it will be interesting to see since a lot of the tickets at sports events are funded by corporations. Now that corporations have started cutting back, how are they going to pay for players salaries, purses, etc...
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Good point, Paul. When the skyboxes are empty, who's going to pick up the tab for the the caviar and champagne?
And Mark, whatever the US PGA Tour lacks, it is not a solid base of fans/spectators. The European and other tours are almost 100% corporate dependant for funding, and will be the first to fall. It weill not be pretty.
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Jim Franklin -
It is already happening in baseball, especially in the free agent market. Read this article in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/sports/baseball/22wolf.html?_r=1&ref=baseball
DT
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Maybe it is time that the Tour players all go to a conference and spend a day with their mouths shut and do nothing but LISTEN to Arnold Palmer talk about how he viewed and interacted with the public in his early days on the tour.
Imagine this group of talented young men then going back out and applying what he would relate?
We might see Fans lining the fairways, each one thinking that every player is looking at them alone. There will be fans whose lives have been affected for the good by simple acts of kindness that the players do WITHOUT it being the center of media attention. They will then rabidly root for, follow and attend PGA Tour events to cheer on their new-found HERO! These fans will always find a way to attend PGA Tour events and support the players.
I have suggested in the past, and do so once again, that every PGA Tour player be required by the PGA Tour to hold two free public exhibition matches at a municipal golf course with one or two other players each year of their membership.
This will allow the municipal courses a vehicle to make some revenues through ticket sales and will popularize all the "unknowns" out there on tour. It will also help these "unknowns" grow their game.
Yes, scaling back on purses is a good idea, but the better one is to make certain that those who have long supported the game and you KEEP doing so. There is a disconnect between players and fans in EVERY sport. It is the players who take the time to bridge this divide that thrive through the tough financial times.
The Tour, the individual players and the game itself will all be far better for doing so.
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And Mark, whatever the US PGA Tour lacks, it is not a solid base of fans/spectators. The European and other tours are almost 100% corporate dependant for funding, and will be the first to fall. It weill not be pretty.
Rich,
I'm not convinced prize money is a function of attendance (in fact, I'm convinced it isn't), I suspect the Accenture event will be good evidence of that. The fact is prize money depends on sponsors. Sponsors care about TV coverage and demographics. The PGA Tour is heavily dependent on financial institutions and the automotive industry for sponsorship. That's not a good combination.
Now the European Tour has similar issues (Barclays are a key sponsor and I bet they're glad they're not as dependant on Volvo as they were) but the Dubai money looks secure. Both tours have real problems and I don't know which will see pinched prize money first but I don't think it's safe to assume it will be the European Tour.
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So, let's see if I get this right: PGA Tour players play for less money, and that's going to help the average struggling American? This makes no economic sense, except maybe on the Clintonesque "I feel your pain" level.
How about this. Play for 20% more in prize money, and have every player cashing a check give 20% to their charity of choice, or have a few designated charities that the monies have to go towards.
Taking a small percentage of money out of millionaires pockets is not going to help the average person. Nor are we going to suddenly feel better about our plight.
Right, Lou Duran? Help me out here to articulate this better.
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Mark Pearce -
If oil stays under $50 a barrel for the next year or two, the Dubai money is likely to be a lot less secure than one might think.
There was an article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about the United Arab Emirates lending money in Dubai to help prop up the economy there. No one is immune from this global downturn.
DT
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The current trajectory (re: Tour payouts) is obviously not sustainable. I wonder: Has Mr. Norman reduced his consulting, design, or appearance fees out of "respect" for those less fortunate?
Rather than reducing the purse each week, I'd rather see some solidarity among pros who agree to assist local school divisions or clinics or shelters with a predetermined (say 10%) chunk of their winnings, before any of them even makes a dime. I agree with Andy that their change might not help average Americans as a group, but it could keep teachers in classrooms for another year.
WW
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And Mark, whatever the US PGA Tour lacks, it is not a solid base of fans/spectators. The European and other tours are almost 100% corporate dependant for funding, and will be the first to fall. It weill not be pretty.
Rich,
I'm not convinced prize money is a function of attendance (in fact, I'm convinced it isn't), I suspect the Accenture event will be good evidence of that. The fact is prize money depends on sponsors. Sponsors care about TV coverage and demographics. The PGA Tour is heavily dependent on financial institutions and the automotive industry for sponsorship. That's not a good combination.
Now the European Tour has similar issues (Barclays are a key sponsor and I bet they're glad they're not as dependant on Volvo as they were) but the Dubai money looks secure. Both tours have real problems and I don't know which will see pinched prize money first but I don't think it's safe to assume it will be the European Tour.
Mark
The Phoenix Open (FBR) has an attendance of over 500,000 people. At a guesstimate of $30/person, that is $15 million in gate receipts alone, or nearly 3 times the total prize money ($5.6 million). Add in all the ancillary income on the site and it ain't chump change. Compare this to the (say) Spanish Open where all you can see on the telly are a few Brits with pinbk sunburned bellies wandering aimlessly outside the ropes. Sports without spectators are kept alive only through corporate sponsorship. I think we'll see the Euro tour crash far sooner than the US one.
Cheers?
Rich
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14:03 02/25 MORGAN STANLEY MS SAYS HAS CANCELED PARTICIPATION IN JUNE PGA GOLF TOURNAMENT
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Golf compared to other sports that are seasonal is avery low paying sport. Look at 2007 for example (since that is what I have in front of me)...
Phil finished second on the money list with 5.8 million. which is a 5th starter or bench player in baseball.
Briny Baird finished 100th and did not crack 1 million dollars. The 100th highest paid player in baseball and other sports are making between what Tiger and Phil made.
I don't think they need to hold back on the money for these players. Most of these guys make their money from endorsements, as golf is not the highest paying sport by any means. And they play all year round
And I love hearing comments like this from people like Norman, who is one of the richest people in the world and travels via private helicopter/jet/giant boat.
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Tone changed a little bit:
BN 14:15 Morgan Stanley Reduces Involvement in Golf Event, CNBC Says
BN 14:05 *MORGAN STANLEY CANCELS PARTICIPATION IN PGA
TOURNAMENT: CNBC By Adam L. Cataldo
Feb. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Morgan Stanley is scaling back its participation in a PGA event scheduled for June, CNBC said citing Reuters.
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"Scaling back" a little less onerous than "cancel". Wells Fargo said the same thing about the Charlotte event early this morning.
To me it appears that charities are the ones that will suffer unless the players do agree to take a pay cut.
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Mark
The Phoenix Open (FBR) has an attendance of over 500,000 people. At a guesstimate of $30/person, that is $15 million in gate receipts alone, or nearly 3 times the total prize money ($5.6 million). Add in all the ancillary income on the site and it ain't chump change. Compare this to the (say) Spanish Open where all you can see on the telly are a few Brits with pinbk sunburned bellies wandering aimlessly outside the ropes. Sports without spectators are kept alive only through corporate sponsorship. I think we'll see the Euro tour crash far sooner than the US one.
Cheers?
Rich
Rich,
They just may have to revert to The Phoenix Open mantra again after 2010. If it's gate receipts that drive the tour, then I would think this would be the last tournament to lose its title sponsor.
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This from the same man who promoted the World Golf Tour.
Mike
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This from the same man who promoted the World Golf Tour.
Mike
Well, and the same man who's made tens (hundreds?) of millions with his own businesses.
EDIT / RETRACT: Greg apparently wasn't suggesting this as a necessary business move, but rather as a populist pitch. That being the case, his business acumen is rather less relevant, and so I hereby invoke Emily Littela. Sorry I misunderstood the situation.
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All PGA Tour player should be required as a condition of contract to buy cap and trade green energy credits compensating all the jet fuel they consume.
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I suppose the fact that Norman's net worth is over a billion dollars somehow qualifies him to pass judgement on the purses of a tour he never plays anymore, bizzarre. One would have to assume this is just another stab at Finchem, whom Norman obviously still can't stand (see World Golf Championships).
All this from a guy who starts banging his best friends wife, nice.
Last time I checked sponsors and tv put up the money and the Tour players play for it. If the ecomomy forces these companies and tv to cut their expenses, then the Tour purses will be adjusted.
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with the PGA Tour being the last tour to be affected
An interesting assumption. Why will the PGA Tour be the last tour to be affected. Is the recession less bad over there?
I say that because of sponsor multi year contracts and the only way to break them is to file for bankruptcy or they will still be liable. Most of the sponsors have enuf assets to know they will lose suits if they try to get out.
The other tours have sponsors who because of their thinner balance sheets, most probably have more wiggle room.
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Wasn't Greg very vocal in his opposition to Clinton raising income taxes ?
What's changed his mind ?
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[/quote]
Mark
The Phoenix Open (FBR) has an attendance of over 500,000 people. At a guesstimate of $30/person, that is $15 million in gate receipts alone, or nearly 3 times the total prize money ($5.6 million). Add in all the ancillary income on the site and it ain't chump change. Compare this to the (say) Spanish Open where all you can see on the telly are a few Brits with pinbk sunburned bellies wandering aimlessly outside the ropes. Sports without spectators are kept alive only through corporate sponsorship. I think we'll see the Euro tour crash far sooner than the US one.
Cheers?
Rich
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"wandering aimlessly outside the ropes" !!!
I think you'll find that us Brits know fine well where the beer tent is, thank you very much.
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I would say with the new tax plan they will be taking a 5% pay cut.
Anthony
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Mark Pearce -
If oil stays under $50 a barrel for the next year or two, the Dubai money is likely to be a lot less secure than one might think.
There was an article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about the United Arab Emirates lending money in Dubai to help prop up the economy there. No one is immune from this global downturn.
DT
David,
The price of oil may go up and down but I'm absolutely sure that the oil producing economies are still raking in a fortune at very little cost relatively speaking. The cost of promoting a golf tournament in comparison is peanuts.
You have to look at the reason why the arabs are spending this money, it is to promote the region as a holiday/business destination for the day when the oil runs out. With that in mind I would suspect they will continue to support the European Tour despite the global recession.
Niall
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Mark
The Phoenix Open (FBR) has an attendance of over 500,000 people. At a guesstimate of $30/person, that is $15 million in gate receipts alone, or nearly 3 times the total prize money ($5.6 million). Add in all the ancillary income on the site and it ain't chump change. Compare this to the (say) Spanish Open where all you can see on the telly are a few Brits with pinbk sunburned bellies wandering aimlessly outside the ropes. Sports without spectators are kept alive only through corporate sponsorship. I think we'll see the Euro tour crash far sooner than the US one.
Cheers?
Rich
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"wandering aimlessly outside the ropes" !!!
I think you'll find that us Brits know fine well where the beer tent is, thank you very much.
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You're welcome!